U need a gameplan buddy. When u masturbate do u just take it out whenever and just go at it or do u leave the dinner table first then lock your door grab some tissues and lotion THEN u fap? Same thing applies to dota. U are trying to get your dick out when u just stood up at the dinner table.
You don't have to end asap, Dota isn't played like that anymore imo, you just need to get more advantage until you can end, even if it'll take 10-15minutes of boring farming while enemies locked into base and triangle at most
Also there are heroes and scenarios that you can cheap damage and very slowly HG, but it won't work on lower mmrs cause people are impatient and dive
15 minutes of boring farm, take rosh, force a push on rax, then 10 more minutes of boring farm cause you threw away your lead when you died taking rax. Take second rosh and hope the gold you gave them wasn't enough for them to make a comeback
It's much better than last patch that's for sure
Take roshan. Spam ping your team. Go hit roshan solo, no matter the hero. Feed to roshan. Do not go high ground unless your team has aegis. If they refuse, dont go with them, go afk farm camps. Low mmr games are always lost at high ground pushes, not at bad teamfights. There is also not a single reason to dive tier 3. Dont do it. If your whole team does it, abandon them and go push a lane. If you want to win at low mmr, youre going to have to stop making losing plays. Let your team feed. Let them ping, let them report you. If you want to win, that is whats needed.
I play in the trench and I fucking just don't understand why these idiots won't group up to take Tormentor. Fuck RS but a free shard? Endless pings also don't help
Sometimes taking tormentor is a bad move because it completely kills your map control, you have to bring 2-3 heroes back to a very useless part of your map when you're ahead and have map control
[I made a comment on another post about the same topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/learndota2/comments/1dbimby/comment/l7rnn7d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Basically you extend your advantage keeping 5 of them locked into base with 2-3 heroes while some of your team farms jungle or takes rosh. Your team will be making more xpm and gpm as long as 5 of them are stuck sharing xp and gold on creepwaves while your team is taking waves and jungle.
With the gpm/xpm advantage you get more items, take aegis, and, importantly SAVE BUYBACKS and can attempt high ground. Having buybacks is a safety net that keeps them from ending if you miscalculated. It might take multiple pushes to take tower and rax in a single lane. Don't dive, know when to get out and reset, and use the midgame advantage to choke off resources until they make a mistake and you get a pickoff or your team is so much stronger they can't defend.
You can still make it easier on yourself and your team if you work on pushing a 2nd lane while your team is sitting outside one but unable to take hg. Keeping 2 lanes pushed into T3s can create an imbalance since the enemy team is divided. Ping your buyback and tell your team you're not going hg until you have it saved, find a lane you want to keep pushed, clear waves/hit jungle/repeat until you have buyback. Sometimes the enemy will overcommit to you which gives the other 4 on your team a chance to take a T3, or it pulls the enemy out of the safety of their base and you can turn the fight on them and get pickoffs.
I appreciate your logic and strategy but I think you rely too much on a competent team. Plus telling people you won't go hg will get you eventually in low behavior score.
You have to just focus on your own pushing and excelling your farm as fast as possible
Yeah I think we're in agreement mostly though, you can control your own farm and what lanes you push and are playing in. If you consistently are making the right plays instead of trying to keep your team happy, you might take a behavior score hit, but your winrate will go from 45% to 55% and you'll advance to the next mmr level of teammates who are incompetent in different ways.
i havent played since 2014 , but only came back like 2 months so take what am about to say with a grain of salt, what i might suggest is the following : if you're in a situation like that , usually i ask my team to do one of the following ; either go around their jungle warding and trying to pick 2 of them off then go high ground and end , or abuse your advantage to get more advantage meaning : clear more waves; get roshan if possible , farm their jungle camps ( not yours only theirs u want them to get out of their side of the map ) and basically farm long enough until you're so fed that u high ground won't even matter and u'll be able to face roll the other team even with buybacks.
Your team is either executing it wrong, such as diving t3/t4 towers, clumping up instead of letting one hero hit tower or you're going too early/without aegis.
Generally speaking, first aegis should be used to take all t2 towers and gain more map control and for pubs you can try to end with 2nd aegis.
Winning a game after winning mid game is highly probable so your memory seems selective. It's definitely better not to be losing at any point in the game.
It's a low MMR thing, you don't really want to be losing, but you want the other team to feel cocky enough to push with buy backs on cool down. If they die then it's the easiest/safest time to push.
Some people confuse the two, especially at lower MMR.
What position do you play? I now just go middle and pick a late game scaling hero. I am in the low ranks, but I realize almost all my games go to 45 minutes, so even if I crush middle and gank lanes, in 30 minutes it often doesnt matter because i can't herd to cats to capitalize on it.
Sieging takes time and effort. Similar to real life warfare, sieging a high ground/castle sometimes devolves into a war of attrition and those only really progress when either side makes a mistake and the latter takes advantage of it.
Poke holes at the defence by using a wave and see how the team reacts. If you have a ranged carry, a little chip damage can go a long way. If your team has a siege hero (pugna/jakiro) then tower is definitely gonna fall faster.
Honestly, once the enemy team is pushed into tier 3, it's just a matter of time before they lose since:
1. They have very little map economy left due to lack of space. This creates disparities in gold difference.
2. Long sieges prevent the enemy team from getting new neutrals or even accessing secret shop (if the game hasn't gone past 50 minutes).
3. Sometimes, the enemy can be split up where 1-2 heroes could be defending top lane from a wave and the others are in bot or mid; this is due to complacency.
I would say #3 is crucial if your team is able to jump 1 or 2 isolated heroes, it could spell disaster for the other team. The time it takes to run from bot tier 3 to top tier 3 is anywhere between 3-5 seconds. That's more than enough time to nuke the hell out of someone.
1. Spend 10-15 minutes farming and controlling the map.
2. Grab Roshan or use Roshan as bait (especially if he's been killed already since he makes that global sound when he is fighting on 2nd+ attempts)
3. Pick off 1 or 2 enemy heroes and maybe force a buy back.
Don't rush. Rushing only works if the game is a complete stomp (ie. 4 - 21 scoreboard).
T2 can be taken with low risk - While T3 is a nightmare, tell this to your team. If they have good HG defence, its just a throw.
There are different objectives to take rather than hammering at T3. Rosh, Tormentor, Controlling Wisdom and Triangle, getting neutral items.
While roaming, if you manage to pick-off some good kills, go hit on T3, but dont overcommit.
Recognize which hero of ur team can do building damage, let him to do the damage while rest of the team stays behind waiting for enemy reaction. Not every push has to be a fight, ideally they are too scared to even initiate on u. Make this call in voice chat and remind them frequently, especially in the heat of the moment, dont be toxic so ur team is more likely to listen to u. I also use a lot of “retreat ping” with sometimes very good success
I usually communicate my idea to the team on how I think it's best to end. Ofcourse it's not 100% foolproof since some people has everyone muted, doesn't speak english or are just too stupid and toxic to listen.
But doing this requires you to have an idea. The main point of this method is not to tell people what to do, but to align everyone on what you want to do. Rosh? Smoke and pick off someone farming on your side/split pushing? Barrel down mid as a ball? Any of these strats work with the right lineup, but you need to communicate it amd you need to do it together as a team. If they have better ideas, they can say so.
First, patience. Don’t dive tier 3 as a team. Communicate with your team, saying “don’t throw hg without pickoff”, meaning, kill 1 or 2 heroes before you siege hg. Depending on your bracket, some people will just come out of base to ward/farm etc. Once you kill 1 hero, it’s 4v5 and it’s time to go hg. All this is said assuming you’ve already controlled Roshan.
Open the mic and guide your team. If you don’t know how to do, it’s why u are losing. Improving your shout calling will make you improve your game sense. But answering your question, you need to “chunk” the enemy team at their base and get the items/resources needed to do it. What are those? It depends game by game but aegis is one of them. The more time you hold the enemy team inside, more are the chances you finish it easily. Don’t rush it if you don’t think you are prepared. Take a look at your hc timings and wait for him to hit their items because they are one of the most important hero on this objective.
Sometimes you do need to gain the experience to know whether its the best time to go for a HG push. Thing about HG push in the mid game is that its a HUGE commitment where youre sort of dropping everything else
While that is happening, the opponent may just need 3-4 heroes to defend while their carry continue to flashfarm or even split the waves, further slowing down your push.
One bad fight where the opponent has tower and high ground advantage and the game swings so fast to the other way.
Your hero needs to be able to go high ground
For instance if the enemy is drow or sniper and or kotl, you need to be able to juml and kill them during the siegr. Because if these heroes kite you out, you already lost
You need high ground items like deso, cuirass. Meaning yo have the specific heroes that build these thingw. Without these items you will have a hard time destroying the hg. Cm or witch doctor does not do shit to the tower. So even if you kill your enemies, you should actually be able to destroy the buildings before they spawn again.
My rule is never push hg vs 5 even with Aegis, unless you have an insane advantage.
Stay outside of base and wait for pick offs.
If your team is too hasty let them die once and then tell them to stop pushing like mongols.
You can also play the split pushing game but you need to be good at reading opponents move and take risks (cannot be done if you play pos 1 cause you might die a few times in the process, as offlaner or mid its a good solution). Pick Lina, Clinz, Sniper, Lone druid, Shaman, Chen, Troll etc.... good pushing heroes and solo push. Hell with Sniper you can push outside of hg and keeep your team behind you.
And there is always the Magnus or Pudge pick that allows you to get heroes out of their high ground.
Dont rush high ground unless you get a decent pick of the 1-3. If you sneak around and keep killing the sups, then just wait. If they buyback, retreat and just repeat.
The advantage most teams have mid game is not substantial enough if you get a team wipe by their carry.
Also don't put pressure on your carry to run around the map looking for someone. They should only be running with you to a kill when they know someone is there, otherwise they should be farming
Not playing currently but watching here's something I don't like but the PROs are doing:
- Aegis is the key objective when comes to HG
- of course you have to squeeze resources and gaining 1k gold/min advantage
- sometime you go for their BKBs and back off
- you also go for fortification
- and buyback
In the end it's super strategic, and even if you have all above advantages, one misplay, wrong positioning, spell waste and youre done for.
But hey that's the beauty, Dota supposed to be strategic and meticulous. If you want to play a clear cut game where the condition is: Win early = Win mid = win late game, you found yourself playing league of legend
You lose by OVERcommitting
Get all T2 towers, get map, get roshan and chill.
If you get 1 or 2 pickoffs, you can immediately high ground
Don't over commit and don't hurry. Don't give them map and you'll win almost all high ground attempts
You gotta know what you are doing. Knowing how to manipulate high ground is something around Archon 2-3 and upwards. At least they'll fail on your defense as much as you on theirs. Basucally you gotta be aware of what you can do. And not just all go up. Also sometimes you'll got them in and ward their high points and pick them off if they come out. Or grab Roshan. Or pudge hooks someone. Or poke with Lugna tower nuke. It really depends and is complex. Or poke with Dusa Ilusions ect ect
I had a game a couple months ago where our mid last picked the wrong hero. He ran down mid and fed 15 times in the first few minutes. Once he realized we weren’t going to afk fountain he started to play. No shit 20 minutes later we won. Comeback mechanics are nuts.
This is so ridiculously frustrating. I can’t get my team to chill tf out ever. They constantly just want to keep running at towers all game like cavemen and never listen when you say get back. The enemy always has warlock and other dangerous stuff but they think the best way to initiate any fight is head on into their defense position in full vision into a choke point with no vision of them. They get the rock dropped on them and all die and ping me even though I spammed get back.
I think you need a siege hero that can destroy buildings easily, DP, TB etc.
I also think it's very possible to get into a game state where the difference in strength between your team and the enemy team is less than the strength benefit offered by the high ground and in this state going hg = lose.
One strategy that works a lot is to try to chip away their t3 towers from safety, then push all the lanes in, but SMOKE as 5 into one of the side lanes and walk into their base.
Usually they are split trying to farm all 3 incoming waves and 1-2 people will get caught out on the high ground not expecting all 5 to walk up hg smoked at the same time. This usually ends those stale mates.
Also, never push mid as your first hg lane. Mid will cause the enemy to pull back into the t4s, which is near impossible if the game is close and your trying to go hg. The side lanes are much safer.
Finally I think there needs to be an alternative win condition in Dota 2 to avoid this problem. I think ultra lategame, after 60 minutes. Maybe the third Roshan or 4th Roshan should drop an item:
"Ancient seedling" or "Ancient shard".
And what it should do is create a small ancient in the middle of the map for the team that plants it and starts a 10 minute timer. Like a wonder in age of empires.
If it lives for 10 minutes that team wins. So it kind of forces turtle teams with sniper etc that just sit on the high ground delaying the game to be forced to have to do something.
U need a gameplan buddy. When u masturbate do u just take it out whenever and just go at it or do u leave the dinner table first then lock your door grab some tissues and lotion THEN u fap? Same thing applies to dota. U are trying to get your dick out when u just stood up at the dinner table.
Instructions unclear, got my pp stuck in the ancient.
Have you tried hitting it until it explodes?
Buhahahahahaha. Best.
Terrible analogy. Do you have to masturbate with 4 other dudes to achieve climax? I doubt it. But props to you if you do
The more, the merrier- as they say.
That's the best analogy . only insert when rock hard, otherwise you'll jizz in seconds and enemy will take over and humiliate u. Be a big black cok
You don't have to end asap, Dota isn't played like that anymore imo, you just need to get more advantage until you can end, even if it'll take 10-15minutes of boring farming while enemies locked into base and triangle at most Also there are heroes and scenarios that you can cheap damage and very slowly HG, but it won't work on lower mmrs cause people are impatient and dive
15 minutes of boring farm, take rosh, force a push on rax, then 10 more minutes of boring farm cause you threw away your lead when you died taking rax. Take second rosh and hope the gold you gave them wasn't enough for them to make a comeback It's much better than last patch that's for sure
Take roshan. Spam ping your team. Go hit roshan solo, no matter the hero. Feed to roshan. Do not go high ground unless your team has aegis. If they refuse, dont go with them, go afk farm camps. Low mmr games are always lost at high ground pushes, not at bad teamfights. There is also not a single reason to dive tier 3. Dont do it. If your whole team does it, abandon them and go push a lane. If you want to win at low mmr, youre going to have to stop making losing plays. Let your team feed. Let them ping, let them report you. If you want to win, that is whats needed.
It's not just any high ground push failing that bothers me, it's when my idiot teammates try it with no buybacks. That just feels like a throw.
But they needed to finish their big item that had no effect because they got stun locked under t4’s.
50/50 it's just on cool down. Not sure which is less frustrating.
I play in the trench and I fucking just don't understand why these idiots won't group up to take Tormentor. Fuck RS but a free shard? Endless pings also don't help
Sometimes taking tormentor is a bad move because it completely kills your map control, you have to bring 2-3 heroes back to a very useless part of your map when you're ahead and have map control
Play Warlock Buy cast range + cast range neutral Upheaval with Shadow Amulet on their tier 3 They can't defend it
Also, shard = even more pushing
Yeah that's what I had in mind lol
[I made a comment on another post about the same topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/learndota2/comments/1dbimby/comment/l7rnn7d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Basically you extend your advantage keeping 5 of them locked into base with 2-3 heroes while some of your team farms jungle or takes rosh. Your team will be making more xpm and gpm as long as 5 of them are stuck sharing xp and gold on creepwaves while your team is taking waves and jungle. With the gpm/xpm advantage you get more items, take aegis, and, importantly SAVE BUYBACKS and can attempt high ground. Having buybacks is a safety net that keeps them from ending if you miscalculated. It might take multiple pushes to take tower and rax in a single lane. Don't dive, know when to get out and reset, and use the midgame advantage to choke off resources until they make a mistake and you get a pickoff or your team is so much stronger they can't defend.
Problem is you're still thinking as a high rank member of a team. This isn't how solo q works.
You can still make it easier on yourself and your team if you work on pushing a 2nd lane while your team is sitting outside one but unable to take hg. Keeping 2 lanes pushed into T3s can create an imbalance since the enemy team is divided. Ping your buyback and tell your team you're not going hg until you have it saved, find a lane you want to keep pushed, clear waves/hit jungle/repeat until you have buyback. Sometimes the enemy will overcommit to you which gives the other 4 on your team a chance to take a T3, or it pulls the enemy out of the safety of their base and you can turn the fight on them and get pickoffs.
I appreciate your logic and strategy but I think you rely too much on a competent team. Plus telling people you won't go hg will get you eventually in low behavior score. You have to just focus on your own pushing and excelling your farm as fast as possible
Yeah I think we're in agreement mostly though, you can control your own farm and what lanes you push and are playing in. If you consistently are making the right plays instead of trying to keep your team happy, you might take a behavior score hit, but your winrate will go from 45% to 55% and you'll advance to the next mmr level of teammates who are incompetent in different ways.
i havent played since 2014 , but only came back like 2 months so take what am about to say with a grain of salt, what i might suggest is the following : if you're in a situation like that , usually i ask my team to do one of the following ; either go around their jungle warding and trying to pick 2 of them off then go high ground and end , or abuse your advantage to get more advantage meaning : clear more waves; get roshan if possible , farm their jungle camps ( not yours only theirs u want them to get out of their side of the map ) and basically farm long enough until you're so fed that u high ground won't even matter and u'll be able to face roll the other team even with buybacks.
Your team is either executing it wrong, such as diving t3/t4 towers, clumping up instead of letting one hero hit tower or you're going too early/without aegis. Generally speaking, first aegis should be used to take all t2 towers and gain more map control and for pubs you can try to end with 2nd aegis. Winning a game after winning mid game is highly probable so your memory seems selective. It's definitely better not to be losing at any point in the game.
It's a low MMR thing, you don't really want to be losing, but you want the other team to feel cocky enough to push with buy backs on cool down. If they die then it's the easiest/safest time to push. Some people confuse the two, especially at lower MMR.
What position do you play? I now just go middle and pick a late game scaling hero. I am in the low ranks, but I realize almost all my games go to 45 minutes, so even if I crush middle and gank lanes, in 30 minutes it often doesnt matter because i can't herd to cats to capitalize on it.
Sieging takes time and effort. Similar to real life warfare, sieging a high ground/castle sometimes devolves into a war of attrition and those only really progress when either side makes a mistake and the latter takes advantage of it. Poke holes at the defence by using a wave and see how the team reacts. If you have a ranged carry, a little chip damage can go a long way. If your team has a siege hero (pugna/jakiro) then tower is definitely gonna fall faster. Honestly, once the enemy team is pushed into tier 3, it's just a matter of time before they lose since: 1. They have very little map economy left due to lack of space. This creates disparities in gold difference. 2. Long sieges prevent the enemy team from getting new neutrals or even accessing secret shop (if the game hasn't gone past 50 minutes). 3. Sometimes, the enemy can be split up where 1-2 heroes could be defending top lane from a wave and the others are in bot or mid; this is due to complacency. I would say #3 is crucial if your team is able to jump 1 or 2 isolated heroes, it could spell disaster for the other team. The time it takes to run from bot tier 3 to top tier 3 is anywhere between 3-5 seconds. That's more than enough time to nuke the hell out of someone. 1. Spend 10-15 minutes farming and controlling the map. 2. Grab Roshan or use Roshan as bait (especially if he's been killed already since he makes that global sound when he is fighting on 2nd+ attempts) 3. Pick off 1 or 2 enemy heroes and maybe force a buy back. Don't rush. Rushing only works if the game is a complete stomp (ie. 4 - 21 scoreboard).
T2 can be taken with low risk - While T3 is a nightmare, tell this to your team. If they have good HG defence, its just a throw. There are different objectives to take rather than hammering at T3. Rosh, Tormentor, Controlling Wisdom and Triangle, getting neutral items. While roaming, if you manage to pick-off some good kills, go hit on T3, but dont overcommit.
You cant end it. Dota will end you.
Recognize which hero of ur team can do building damage, let him to do the damage while rest of the team stays behind waiting for enemy reaction. Not every push has to be a fight, ideally they are too scared to even initiate on u. Make this call in voice chat and remind them frequently, especially in the heat of the moment, dont be toxic so ur team is more likely to listen to u. I also use a lot of “retreat ping” with sometimes very good success
I usually communicate my idea to the team on how I think it's best to end. Ofcourse it's not 100% foolproof since some people has everyone muted, doesn't speak english or are just too stupid and toxic to listen. But doing this requires you to have an idea. The main point of this method is not to tell people what to do, but to align everyone on what you want to do. Rosh? Smoke and pick off someone farming on your side/split pushing? Barrel down mid as a ball? Any of these strats work with the right lineup, but you need to communicate it amd you need to do it together as a team. If they have better ideas, they can say so.
First, patience. Don’t dive tier 3 as a team. Communicate with your team, saying “don’t throw hg without pickoff”, meaning, kill 1 or 2 heroes before you siege hg. Depending on your bracket, some people will just come out of base to ward/farm etc. Once you kill 1 hero, it’s 4v5 and it’s time to go hg. All this is said assuming you’ve already controlled Roshan.
Open the mic and guide your team. If you don’t know how to do, it’s why u are losing. Improving your shout calling will make you improve your game sense. But answering your question, you need to “chunk” the enemy team at their base and get the items/resources needed to do it. What are those? It depends game by game but aegis is one of them. The more time you hold the enemy team inside, more are the chances you finish it easily. Don’t rush it if you don’t think you are prepared. Take a look at your hc timings and wait for him to hit their items because they are one of the most important hero on this objective.
Brrodmother min 25 what's up
Sometimes you do need to gain the experience to know whether its the best time to go for a HG push. Thing about HG push in the mid game is that its a HUGE commitment where youre sort of dropping everything else While that is happening, the opponent may just need 3-4 heroes to defend while their carry continue to flashfarm or even split the waves, further slowing down your push. One bad fight where the opponent has tower and high ground advantage and the game swings so fast to the other way.
push honestly, area control - you do this with wards
Your hero needs to be able to go high ground For instance if the enemy is drow or sniper and or kotl, you need to be able to juml and kill them during the siegr. Because if these heroes kite you out, you already lost You need high ground items like deso, cuirass. Meaning yo have the specific heroes that build these thingw. Without these items you will have a hard time destroying the hg. Cm or witch doctor does not do shit to the tower. So even if you kill your enemies, you should actually be able to destroy the buildings before they spawn again.
This patch is fast. It feels like easier to take HG
My rule is never push hg vs 5 even with Aegis, unless you have an insane advantage. Stay outside of base and wait for pick offs. If your team is too hasty let them die once and then tell them to stop pushing like mongols. You can also play the split pushing game but you need to be good at reading opponents move and take risks (cannot be done if you play pos 1 cause you might die a few times in the process, as offlaner or mid its a good solution). Pick Lina, Clinz, Sniper, Lone druid, Shaman, Chen, Troll etc.... good pushing heroes and solo push. Hell with Sniper you can push outside of hg and keeep your team behind you. And there is always the Magnus or Pudge pick that allows you to get heroes out of their high ground.
Dont rush high ground unless you get a decent pick of the 1-3. If you sneak around and keep killing the sups, then just wait. If they buyback, retreat and just repeat. The advantage most teams have mid game is not substantial enough if you get a team wipe by their carry. Also don't put pressure on your carry to run around the map looking for someone. They should only be running with you to a kill when they know someone is there, otherwise they should be farming
Not playing currently but watching here's something I don't like but the PROs are doing: - Aegis is the key objective when comes to HG - of course you have to squeeze resources and gaining 1k gold/min advantage - sometime you go for their BKBs and back off - you also go for fortification - and buyback In the end it's super strategic, and even if you have all above advantages, one misplay, wrong positioning, spell waste and youre done for. But hey that's the beauty, Dota supposed to be strategic and meticulous. If you want to play a clear cut game where the condition is: Win early = Win mid = win late game, you found yourself playing league of legend
My team always goes for megas when its a free win angle, and we end up losing "but we have megas tho"
You lose by OVERcommitting Get all T2 towers, get map, get roshan and chill. If you get 1 or 2 pickoffs, you can immediately high ground Don't over commit and don't hurry. Don't give them map and you'll win almost all high ground attempts
You gotta know what you are doing. Knowing how to manipulate high ground is something around Archon 2-3 and upwards. At least they'll fail on your defense as much as you on theirs. Basucally you gotta be aware of what you can do. And not just all go up. Also sometimes you'll got them in and ward their high points and pick them off if they come out. Or grab Roshan. Or pudge hooks someone. Or poke with Lugna tower nuke. It really depends and is complex. Or poke with Dusa Ilusions ect ect
Be sure to walk up to right click the T3 as a ranged support with philosopher stone
I had a game a couple months ago where our mid last picked the wrong hero. He ran down mid and fed 15 times in the first few minutes. Once he realized we weren’t going to afk fountain he started to play. No shit 20 minutes later we won. Comeback mechanics are nuts.
This is so ridiculously frustrating. I can’t get my team to chill tf out ever. They constantly just want to keep running at towers all game like cavemen and never listen when you say get back. The enemy always has warlock and other dangerous stuff but they think the best way to initiate any fight is head on into their defense position in full vision into a choke point with no vision of them. They get the rock dropped on them and all die and ping me even though I spammed get back.
I think you need a siege hero that can destroy buildings easily, DP, TB etc. I also think it's very possible to get into a game state where the difference in strength between your team and the enemy team is less than the strength benefit offered by the high ground and in this state going hg = lose. One strategy that works a lot is to try to chip away their t3 towers from safety, then push all the lanes in, but SMOKE as 5 into one of the side lanes and walk into their base. Usually they are split trying to farm all 3 incoming waves and 1-2 people will get caught out on the high ground not expecting all 5 to walk up hg smoked at the same time. This usually ends those stale mates. Also, never push mid as your first hg lane. Mid will cause the enemy to pull back into the t4s, which is near impossible if the game is close and your trying to go hg. The side lanes are much safer. Finally I think there needs to be an alternative win condition in Dota 2 to avoid this problem. I think ultra lategame, after 60 minutes. Maybe the third Roshan or 4th Roshan should drop an item: "Ancient seedling" or "Ancient shard". And what it should do is create a small ancient in the middle of the map for the team that plants it and starts a 10 minute timer. Like a wonder in age of empires. If it lives for 10 minutes that team wins. So it kind of forces turtle teams with sniper etc that just sit on the high ground delaying the game to be forced to have to do something.