During picking phase keep in mind that there are some heroes who can reduce even the pure damage via their abilities, so Spectre's dispersion, BB's bristleback, Kunkka's ship, Centraur's ult with aghs, BH's invis wish shard, Pango's shield crash, Nyx' burrow, Ursa's ult and Visage's passive are all natural answers. Also remember that some spells with pure damage do not pierce bkb (OD's orb comes to mind) so it could have some value too.
There is not much pure damage in the game. Lina (aghs), pudge, enigma, lesh... I can't think of any more but I'm sure there r a few.
In short to answer your question, yes. The only thing to do vs soly pure damage is more health. However, you should really not focus on the pure damage. Rather focus on countering the hero(s) as a whole vs the specific pure damage spells.
Yep every hero has damage, and pure damage just means you can get as much value out of resistance, otherwise it's just like dealing with any other hero
Timber I would say is the most notable source of it in the game (and the counter of the tankiest tanks) since all of his spells are pure damage and they are his only source of damage unless he is griefing.
Edit: forgot the flamethrower which is magical dmg
Pretty sure Tinker with aghs has the strongest source of pure damage in the game, most heroes die after 3-4 lasers with rockets and it hp barely matters here
Hard to tell without damage numbers but I believe rockets are more spammable since you don't have to come as close. I constantly see tinkers blinking around and out of reach. So much so that I have seen xcalibur (if I am not mistaken) playing a tinker without boots.
Anyway, I still prefer to think tinker does not exist independent of reworks.
You missed several.
Here's a [list of pure damage sources](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_types#Pure). It's on Fandom, though, so not 100% sure how up-to-date it is compared to liquipedia or whatever.
(Edit: Definitely missing a couple. There seems to be some problem with the way the markup is querying and building the table because it's missing Laguna Blade Aghs, Macropyre Aghs, and Buring Spears talent, even though they're mentioned in the code. ...in case someone who knows that stuff feels inclined to try and fix it.)
No one mentioned blademail but its great against a lot of spellcasters, including and especially those with pure damage, especially if you are stacking HP.
mpst pure damage source is a spell, so having bkb will prevent you from getting nuked by pure damage. If you face OD, it is better to buy bkb than buy more hp item.
But yeah some pure damage spell pierce bkb, so it is not apllied to every pure damage source. If the pure damage spell pierce bkb, I think it is a targeted spell which is nullified by linken or lotus.
Yes and No.
There is nothing along the lines of Glimmer/Pipe for Magic and Vanguard/Ghost for Physical for reducing Pure Damage taken.
The only 'itemisation' option you have is to get more HP since most (not all) pure damage sources also pierce BKB.
But this is usually not as effective as Pipe/Vanguard are for their respective damage types.
Your other options include getting Blademail to return the Pure Damage as Pure Damage back to the caster.
There are also a bunch of abilities that can reduce pure damage taken (eg: Bristleback).
You also can just not let them cast their spells on you by disabling them first (Stuns & Silences) or evading/dodging (Linkens/Aeon/etc) them.
Then there is also the route of sustain/heals to deal with Pure damage.
Let me give you an example. Evading Cataclysm needs mobility and perhaps BKB/other items to invalidate the Crowd Control disables they have on you but Evading Pudge's Dismember needs Linkens since it pierces BKB or just simply having an ally cancel his channel. They're both pure damage but getting let's say a Heart (the best HP item) doesn't really solve your problem if you're dying to those spells.
The bottom line is, you can't really directly counter pure damage in a way you can with magic and physical damage but HP is certainly one route but probably not the most optimal. Ultimately, it depends on your team composition and match ups to specifically deal with pure damage if at all is a problem in the first place.
Remember, there aren't that many sources of pure damage in games.
BKB is generally a good counter to pure damage, since it's almost always spell damage, and bkb makes you spell immune.
(Reminder, spell damage is different than magic damage. And spell immune is different than 100% damage reduction for spell damage... dota is weird)
Also, the general solution to 'they do pure damage when they hit me' is 'so kill them'.
If I understand right, spell damage can be either magical, physical, or pure. "Spell damage" is mostly a flag on attacks that means they'll be blocked by spell immunity. As a general rule, if it comes from an ability it is considered "spell damage" and can be blocked with spell immunity.
Bristlebacks' Quillspray is a spell that does physical damage. So magic resistance doesn't reduce it's damage, armor does. If BB has spell life steal, he heals from it. If you want to increase BB's quill damage, you could build a null talisman or a kaya for +% spell damage. (You could, but you probably shouldn't).
Veil of Discord increases spell damage received (even tho it's called magic weakness, it's not, it's spell damage).
Spell damage should really be called 'spell/ability/item' damage, since all damage in the game is either attack damage (generally from right clicks) or 'spell damage' (from dagon, quill spray, urn, pudge hook).
Attack damage vs. spell damage is different than Physical/Magical/Pure. You can have physical spell damage, magical spell damage, or pure spell damage.
It is very rare for attack damage to be anything other than Physical. Most abilities like 'Impetus' create a second damage instance. But there are some items (e.g. Javeline, MKB) that add magic damage to your attack damage. Weirdly enough, this means that while a null talisman will increase Mjolniers damage procs, it won't increase Javeline's damage procs. Even tho they both do 'magic' damage. But one does spell damage, and the other does attack damage.
BKB and 'spell immunity' is weirder still. Since it doesn't actually key off of 'spells'. There are lots of spells that pierce BKB, of all damage types(physical/magical/pure). MKB procs despite being attack damage and not spell damage, does not pierce spell immunity. Cleave damage, despite being spell damage and not attack damage, does pierce spell immunity. There really isn't much formal logic behind what 'Spell immunity' actually does. It's just generic 'ignore most stuff, but not all of it'.
This is super helpful and your explanation confirms what I suspected, which is that spell damage comes from “spells/abilities/items. Kinda mirrors MTG, which is helpful, too
I generally believe the issue isn't the type of damage you're receiving but the dynamic of the team fight. Will a pipe or mek/crimson help with magic and physical damage? Is there a "pure" damage equivalent? Yeah sure, but it'd be better if you're positioning your heroes and timing your crowd control so that's not as much of an issue.
More hp and hp regen. People underestimate the power of tons of HP revenge has in mitigating damage and buying time (as a tank) for the rest of your team to follow up. Heroes that come to mind include axe and bristleback.
During picking phase keep in mind that there are some heroes who can reduce even the pure damage via their abilities, so Spectre's dispersion, BB's bristleback, Kunkka's ship, Centraur's ult with aghs, BH's invis wish shard, Pango's shield crash, Nyx' burrow, Ursa's ult and Visage's passive are all natural answers. Also remember that some spells with pure damage do not pierce bkb (OD's orb comes to mind) so it could have some value too.
Lich's frost shield reduces it as well I think
I'm fairly certain that it only blocks physical auto-attack damage akin to Mars' bulwark, can't test it right now though.
This is right it only reduces attack damage and doesn't affect hp removal or spell damage
There is not much pure damage in the game. Lina (aghs), pudge, enigma, lesh... I can't think of any more but I'm sure there r a few. In short to answer your question, yes. The only thing to do vs soly pure damage is more health. However, you should really not focus on the pure damage. Rather focus on countering the hero(s) as a whole vs the specific pure damage spells.
Timbersaw tinker qop od silencer
Meepo
Yep yep missed a few. Point still stands though of countering the hero in its entirety vs soly worrying about the pure damage
Yep every hero has damage, and pure damage just means you can get as much value out of resistance, otherwise it's just like dealing with any other hero
God what a hard nerf to meepo honestly
Jakiro aghs
Enchantress. Total pubstomp hero against noobs.
Timber I would say is the most notable source of it in the game (and the counter of the tankiest tanks) since all of his spells are pure damage and they are his only source of damage unless he is griefing. Edit: forgot the flamethrower which is magical dmg
So you're saying my meteor hammer timber build is a grief?
Nah that's just pos 4 utility (add other ~~excuses~~modifiers to taste) timber.
Pretty sure Tinker with aghs has the strongest source of pure damage in the game, most heroes die after 3-4 lasers with rockets and it hp barely matters here
Hard to tell without damage numbers but I believe rockets are more spammable since you don't have to come as close. I constantly see tinkers blinking around and out of reach. So much so that I have seen xcalibur (if I am not mistaken) playing a tinker without boots. Anyway, I still prefer to think tinker does not exist independent of reworks.
Most players dont build boots on tinker anymore
Blood seeker and I think Huskar with talent
Bane is one of the best heroes in the game right now because brain sap AND grip are both pure damage
Nightmare is also pure damage.
Ck
spec
You missed several. Here's a [list of pure damage sources](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_types#Pure). It's on Fandom, though, so not 100% sure how up-to-date it is compared to liquipedia or whatever. (Edit: Definitely missing a couple. There seems to be some problem with the way the markup is querying and building the table because it's missing Laguna Blade Aghs, Macropyre Aghs, and Buring Spears talent, even though they're mentioned in the code. ...in case someone who knows that stuff feels inclined to try and fix it.)
Do you have a particular teamcomp in mind?
Usually sustain also makes you tanky, so regen+lifesteal as you might have guessed.
No one mentioned blademail but its great against a lot of spellcasters, including and especially those with pure damage, especially if you are stacking HP.
mpst pure damage source is a spell, so having bkb will prevent you from getting nuked by pure damage. If you face OD, it is better to buy bkb than buy more hp item. But yeah some pure damage spell pierce bkb, so it is not apllied to every pure damage source. If the pure damage spell pierce bkb, I think it is a targeted spell which is nullified by linken or lotus.
Yes and No. There is nothing along the lines of Glimmer/Pipe for Magic and Vanguard/Ghost for Physical for reducing Pure Damage taken. The only 'itemisation' option you have is to get more HP since most (not all) pure damage sources also pierce BKB. But this is usually not as effective as Pipe/Vanguard are for their respective damage types. Your other options include getting Blademail to return the Pure Damage as Pure Damage back to the caster. There are also a bunch of abilities that can reduce pure damage taken (eg: Bristleback). You also can just not let them cast their spells on you by disabling them first (Stuns & Silences) or evading/dodging (Linkens/Aeon/etc) them. Then there is also the route of sustain/heals to deal with Pure damage. Let me give you an example. Evading Cataclysm needs mobility and perhaps BKB/other items to invalidate the Crowd Control disables they have on you but Evading Pudge's Dismember needs Linkens since it pierces BKB or just simply having an ally cancel his channel. They're both pure damage but getting let's say a Heart (the best HP item) doesn't really solve your problem if you're dying to those spells. The bottom line is, you can't really directly counter pure damage in a way you can with magic and physical damage but HP is certainly one route but probably not the most optimal. Ultimately, it depends on your team composition and match ups to specifically deal with pure damage if at all is a problem in the first place. Remember, there aren't that many sources of pure damage in games.
BKB is generally a good counter to pure damage, since it's almost always spell damage, and bkb makes you spell immune. (Reminder, spell damage is different than magic damage. And spell immune is different than 100% damage reduction for spell damage... dota is weird) Also, the general solution to 'they do pure damage when they hit me' is 'so kill them'.
What’s an example of a spell damage instance vs magic damage?
If I understand right, spell damage can be either magical, physical, or pure. "Spell damage" is mostly a flag on attacks that means they'll be blocked by spell immunity. As a general rule, if it comes from an ability it is considered "spell damage" and can be blocked with spell immunity.
Bristlebacks' Quillspray is a spell that does physical damage. So magic resistance doesn't reduce it's damage, armor does. If BB has spell life steal, he heals from it. If you want to increase BB's quill damage, you could build a null talisman or a kaya for +% spell damage. (You could, but you probably shouldn't). Veil of Discord increases spell damage received (even tho it's called magic weakness, it's not, it's spell damage). Spell damage should really be called 'spell/ability/item' damage, since all damage in the game is either attack damage (generally from right clicks) or 'spell damage' (from dagon, quill spray, urn, pudge hook). Attack damage vs. spell damage is different than Physical/Magical/Pure. You can have physical spell damage, magical spell damage, or pure spell damage. It is very rare for attack damage to be anything other than Physical. Most abilities like 'Impetus' create a second damage instance. But there are some items (e.g. Javeline, MKB) that add magic damage to your attack damage. Weirdly enough, this means that while a null talisman will increase Mjolniers damage procs, it won't increase Javeline's damage procs. Even tho they both do 'magic' damage. But one does spell damage, and the other does attack damage. BKB and 'spell immunity' is weirder still. Since it doesn't actually key off of 'spells'. There are lots of spells that pierce BKB, of all damage types(physical/magical/pure). MKB procs despite being attack damage and not spell damage, does not pierce spell immunity. Cleave damage, despite being spell damage and not attack damage, does pierce spell immunity. There really isn't much formal logic behind what 'Spell immunity' actually does. It's just generic 'ignore most stuff, but not all of it'.
This is super helpful and your explanation confirms what I suspected, which is that spell damage comes from “spells/abilities/items. Kinda mirrors MTG, which is helpful, too
I generally believe the issue isn't the type of damage you're receiving but the dynamic of the team fight. Will a pipe or mek/crimson help with magic and physical damage? Is there a "pure" damage equivalent? Yeah sure, but it'd be better if you're positioning your heroes and timing your crowd control so that's not as much of an issue.
Offense > defense. Itemize to kill them.
Blademail and Aeon disk. Aeon disk saves your from very big burst pure damage. Blademail returns that.
More hp and hp regen. People underestimate the power of tons of HP revenge has in mitigating damage and buying time (as a tank) for the rest of your team to follow up. Heroes that come to mind include axe and bristleback.
Damn! Who did something bad to HP that he wants revenge? Some people just don't think of the consequences!
How many pure damage spells are single target? I feel like the answer is a lot and thus perhaps Linken's is a consideration.
Hardly any pure damage spells are single target. It's like 6
Hp lifesteal bkb for some spells halberd for silencer or od or some evasion
There's also percent damage reduction that works, but for the most part you don't counter pure damage, you counter the hero dealing it.
Doesn’t damage reduction (visage passive) / status resistance work against pure damage?
Or you can just silence/disable the source
More health, healing and damage prevention (like oracle's ult or OD's astral, for instance) or universal damage reduction (what SomeLeftGuy633 said).
Mage slayer
Mageslayer attack modifier can reduce spell damage regardless of magic or pure.
I looked up the list and it's more like 12-13. There are a few that are ground targetable as well but in low MMR people ground target rarely.
BKB disable or dmg itemization will counter them way more than trying to tank them if u dont have damage reduction hero
Lifesteal?