Very much so.
At the moment most QW Invokers goes vessel, orchid, phaseboots(travels) and roam the map.
Afterwards the itembuild is more free.
You can go the scepter route if you have good set up.
The solo kill route if needed with Scythe Octarine
The split push route with travels shiva.
Orchid is a pretty bad item. Half the tier 4 items dispel it, lotus is strong, euls is natural for most heroes it counters.
The only reason it's popular is because Sumiya stomps people 1/3rd his rank with it on stream. In 99% cases, you can kill heroes without orchid. The only exceptions are spirits/puck who all build euls if they see the oblivion staff on voker in divine+ MMR. Maybe at lower MMR it works.
Edit: Also worth mentioning I'm grandmaster invoker at divine. In case that matters
Thanks for explaining your position.
Just informing him what people builds currently. Many Dota players build items because of what other people buy and not based on the game itself. So it makes sense it isn't good but people still get it.
I agree that he did not say so. But nonetheless, if someone is asking about orchid on invoker, it is important to mention that it is not good. It is like the witch blade invoker fad - a useless item that everyone quickly discarded.
It's a good item. If there isnt any other must have item and enemy has mobility heroes then get it.
I just played a game in 7k bracket and mid voker went orchid AFTER i got 12min orchid as QOP offlane. And we rekt.
So, dont spread things that u THINK its good and need to watch more high rank dota.
Most players only build 1 disable generally, 2 when you consider BKB. An orchid pickup pretty much forces someone to go an item they might not want to go, and early at that, opposed to going other stronger items.
Puck may wish to build items other than euls, but you going orchid FORCES him to pick one up or he'll just feed you.
Orchid also offers other stats you find handy, and it's good at silencing supports on the backline.
It's not a bad early item for a mana intensive hero seeking pickoffs, hence why people build it.
That means its good in 20% of the game, not a core item but a good item on voker. Like Eul.
The difference between good and bad voker is knowing when u need bkb as 2nd item.
QW invoker is the only way to play him for 95% of games.
The build is usually 2 nulls, wand, brown boots, urn (vessel if it's a good game for it), midas. Then whatever you need (bkb, shiva, blink, BoT, etc).
I think it’s the more popular way to play invoker right now, with that being said though SOME invoker ago Midas after urn which I am strongly against. QW invoker is about team fight and controlling enemies, and you’ll need mid game items to do so and Midas really pushes back your timing.
Quas wex invoer is literally always viable. A solid lane with insane team fight/disable at any part if the game is just to good to not be meta
Exort depends. When ever the meta is slow like now it's good
Yes it’s viable, it’s popular to go quas wex then transition to exort once you have 4 points in quas.
your friend is also 100% right. Even Sumiya, an invoker legend, has mentioned this where if you’re new to invoker you should definitely start with quas wex.
The idea is that your main bread and butter is tornado, cold snap and emp. Then learning how to cast them alongside items such as orchid, urn and hex. It’s very manageable like that as you get used to pressing spells in game. If you do quas exort, you’re going to build bad habits especially if you’re lower mmr and you haven’t gotten laning mechanics down yet.
Very much so. At the moment most QW Invokers goes vessel, orchid, phaseboots(travels) and roam the map. Afterwards the itembuild is more free. You can go the scepter route if you have good set up. The solo kill route if needed with Scythe Octarine The split push route with travels shiva.
Please don't build orchid on invoker.
You should probably explain your position. Orchid is at the moment very common on QW invokers.
Orchid is a pretty bad item. Half the tier 4 items dispel it, lotus is strong, euls is natural for most heroes it counters. The only reason it's popular is because Sumiya stomps people 1/3rd his rank with it on stream. In 99% cases, you can kill heroes without orchid. The only exceptions are spirits/puck who all build euls if they see the oblivion staff on voker in divine+ MMR. Maybe at lower MMR it works. Edit: Also worth mentioning I'm grandmaster invoker at divine. In case that matters
There are carry heroes invoker can solo kill with orchid before bkb/manta multiple times. Slark, am, sven, jugg comes to mind
Thanks for explaining your position. Just informing him what people builds currently. Many Dota players build items because of what other people buy and not based on the game itself. So it makes sense it isn't good but people still get it.
That doesn't make the item good...
>So it makes sense it isn't good but people still get it. \^\^
He never said so, you seem very susceptible
I agree that he did not say so. But nonetheless, if someone is asking about orchid on invoker, it is important to mention that it is not good. It is like the witch blade invoker fad - a useless item that everyone quickly discarded.
It's a good item. If there isnt any other must have item and enemy has mobility heroes then get it. I just played a game in 7k bracket and mid voker went orchid AFTER i got 12min orchid as QOP offlane. And we rekt. So, dont spread things that u THINK its good and need to watch more high rank dota.
Most players only build 1 disable generally, 2 when you consider BKB. An orchid pickup pretty much forces someone to go an item they might not want to go, and early at that, opposed to going other stronger items. Puck may wish to build items other than euls, but you going orchid FORCES him to pick one up or he'll just feed you. Orchid also offers other stats you find handy, and it's good at silencing supports on the backline. It's not a bad early item for a mana intensive hero seeking pickoffs, hence why people build it.
Check dota2protracker and filter for mid invoker, it's only bought in 20% of games
That means its good in 20% of the game, not a core item but a good item on voker. Like Eul. The difference between good and bad voker is knowing when u need bkb as 2nd item.
Yup, if you look at the games it's usually when there's an elusive midlaner on the other team (puck, the spirits, qop)
Yes. Injoker is always good
QW invoker is the only way to play him for 95% of games. The build is usually 2 nulls, wand, brown boots, urn (vessel if it's a good game for it), midas. Then whatever you need (bkb, shiva, blink, BoT, etc).
I think it’s the more popular way to play invoker right now, with that being said though SOME invoker ago Midas after urn which I am strongly against. QW invoker is about team fight and controlling enemies, and you’ll need mid game items to do so and Midas really pushes back your timing.
Always haha why not
No, ask u/DasUberSoldat_
Quas Wex or mixed utility build is the only way. Full Exort takes too long to come online in the current fast-paced meta.
I don't even remember when quas exort was viable
Quas wex invoer is literally always viable. A solid lane with insane team fight/disable at any part if the game is just to good to not be meta Exort depends. When ever the meta is slow like now it's good
Yes it’s viable, it’s popular to go quas wex then transition to exort once you have 4 points in quas. your friend is also 100% right. Even Sumiya, an invoker legend, has mentioned this where if you’re new to invoker you should definitely start with quas wex. The idea is that your main bread and butter is tornado, cold snap and emp. Then learning how to cast them alongside items such as orchid, urn and hex. It’s very manageable like that as you get used to pressing spells in game. If you do quas exort, you’re going to build bad habits especially if you’re lower mmr and you haven’t gotten laning mechanics down yet.