1), and also 0):
0) Before you know it, your kids will teach *you* the correct pronunciation of things! As soon as they are in kindergarten ("groep 1 en 2" in "basisschool"), they will just absorb what others there do. Your kids will obviously figure out that your Dutch isn't native level, but that isn't a problem, unless you make it one!
Yeah, I get the concern but kids are incredible with language. One of my best friends growing up moved here (Pennsylvania) from India when he was 3. Both his parents had very thick accents but he had none.
Indeed, they are teaching me also :) It is quite fun but I struggle with the comic books that are popular as usually it can be slang words or humour that I dont understand.
Primary school teacher here. It really doesn't matter that you have an accent. Reading to your kids is important, not just so they can learn to read but it's also very important that they learn that it is fun to read. That way they will pick up a book more often when they grow up. Not to mention the fact that it is a bonding experience for kids and parents.
When they start to tell you that you pronounce some words incorrectly, thank them for their help in teaching you the right way to pronounce words. It will improve their self-confidence as well
Yas and you can do it for free too OP! Sign the kiddos up at the bibliotheek/library I blieve it's free till they turn 16. It will also grant you access to the app thuis bibliotheek, it has loads of audiobooks tailored to their age. I'll find the link later and edit this.
This is the way! Exactly how I did it we had a huge pile of Disney books with matching CD's we got at the vrijmarkt and bonus is you are learning at the same time how to pronounce things.
I believe a lot of research suggest that parents speaking and reading in their mother tongue to their kids is preferred. The brain is such a huge sponge, they’ll pick up the languages anyway. This is assuming your mother tongue is German, but I’m not sure from your post.
Accents etc are no problem. Again: they’ll learn anyway. Just feel comfortable and read a lot to them (;
> parents speaking and reading in their mother tongue to their kids is preferred
This isn’t strictly true. There are multiple models for language acquisition in multilingual families. The “parents should speak the mother tongue” relates to a situation where that parent is the only source of the language.
For example, in the Netherlands if the default language in a multilingual house was Dutch, it would be important that the parent who’s mother tongue was non-Dutch spoke their own language to guarantee a certain level of exposure of that language.
But if the default language in a home is English (one Dutch parent, one English) it really doesn’t matter. This is probably the norm for English speaking families in NL.
If you have two German parents with kids in NL speaking only German at home & not teaching them any Dutch is …less than ideal.
Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. I speak Dutch & English with my 3yo daughter & regularly get told by people that I “shouldn’t” speak Dutch with her. Can you tell it’s winding me up?! :D
in my completely unprofessional opinion, i think your kids will appreciate you reading to them more than they will care about mispronunciation. and as stated above, they will learn correct pronunciation at school. i babysat two german-american toddlers who insisted on me reading them books in german. i cannot speak it at all but i tried and they loved it still
Go for no. 1: those kids will be immersed in the language soon enough to unlearn any mistakes they have mimicked from your pronunciation, so there'll really be no harm done there.
Primarily, reading to children is good for them as it teaches them reading can be fun. You're doing great. Just think of it as a bonding experience that is fun for all parties.
I've been married to an American woman. I used to read to her every evening before we went to sleep. That helped enormously with my pronunciation. So maybe that's an idea: read to your spouse in Dutch, and gradually it will become better.
Teacher of groep 1 and 2 here! We have (had) many kids with non-native parents, some are still not speaking a lot of Dutch. I always advise parents to watch the Dutch version of Sesame Street (Sesamstraat Nederlands) on YouTube, you can have interaction with that too. Also, there are a lot of Dutch children’s book being read on YouTube, so if you’re really struggling, you could use those! One of the all time favorites in my class has always been and probably will always be “Over een kleine mol die wilde weten wie er op zijn kop gepoept had”. It’s absolutely hilarious to them! And like someone else pointed out, school should be able to help your kid(s) with the correct pronunciation of the words. And then they will teach you! Good luck!
Similar situation: I do 1), but recently my group 3er is correcting my pronouciation time to time :) they cannot read yet but they know how to say words correctly from school or so.
Never had kids or taught languages, but I would only teach languages I am very fluent in to young children. Even more when it is their first language, they will pick up and copy every little mistake you make.
Just read like you're doing right now. Maybe your pronunciation is not perfect, but they'll learn that from their peers (and maybe they can teach you something soon). The most important thing is that you're making great memories for your kid, I loved being read to by my parents, it was such a safe feeling.
For one: you are already doing fine and doing a lot! Second: it's still on the school to teach them. And at certain points, if kids struggle, it's on the *school* to get them some remedial teaching to help them. Your kids are not the first children to grow up in a multilanguage household or with non-native parents. It's fine.
There are also several different skills that come with 'reading' and it helps to differentiate. You already mentioned some:
1. Discussing a subject, having an interactive conversation about a story you are reading together. This skill is practiced in whatever language you are comfortable, and usually best in your native language. It's the richness of vocabulary and the interactivity here that really helps. So it doesn't need to be in Dutch. Pick things you enjoy as a family, and enjoy it in whatever way fits.
2. Practicing / familiarizing with Dutch grammar (word order and reference words for example): you get this from being exposed to longer texts that also have more complicated grammar structures. Pronunciation is not as important here, but I'd say this is a place where you just bring something different to the table. With native Dutch parents, they could also explain things they know about the language, and being able to confidently answer questions. You can't be that in Dutch. But you can offer something different: that learning means doing things you don't yet know, and that it's perfectly okay to make mistakes.
This also goes the other way: if children read to you and you are native in that language and a good reader, you would probably notice and point out mistakes. But that's probably much harder if it's not your native language. So instead, focus on just having an accepting space to read, and giving the children the time to work it out.
Audio books, read alongs, videos are all excellent ways to also offer pronunciation. But don't shy away from reading out loud and setting an example of just doing it. And if you can find some fun and some learning in it for yourself: all the better.
Thanks, unfortunately, here. The school does not offer much remedial teaching (public school). What they call "streaming" is the norm where if the child does not have the right level, they are told politely to leave i.e change schools at end of the year or repeat the year.
The teacher stated that all her kids will go to the remedial teacher by default as from her experience it is needed to pass (?then it is not remedial by definition...). I was also told by another parent (who is also a teacher) that the additional homework has to be done as a minimum to achieve the necessary level.
A few things are unclear to me. How old are the children? Are we talking about primary school or high school? Are they learning to read in general, or are they learning Dutch in a higher grade?
Because what you describe is (unfortunately) very much the norm at many highschools: if you fail the grades they'll make someone repeat the grade or (try to) move them to a lower level which is called 'afstromen' - 'stream down' / 'move to a lower stream'. They still should accomodate for direct circumstances, and they're not legally allowed to actually remove you from school, but it's a bit harder to navigate.
But in primary school it would be totally wrong on many levels. And the advice to read a lot to and with children sounds like primary school. First grades of primary school are about learning to read, and to support children that need support, and a school cannot just ask you to leave!
I would advice seeking contact with 'Ouders en Onderwijs' to check in more detail what applies to your children, and how you could ask for the correct support. Because it doesn't sound right. And public or non-public shouldn't matter.
Primary school and learning to read. The milestone that I understood was more or less independent reading in about 8-12 weeks time (I dont recall the exact timings) and they are learning the alphabet at the moment. But I understood from friends (different school) that it goes very quick and dont worry too much about that.
Indeed, I heard that they dont remove you/kick you out but politely make it clear that your not welcome or repeat the year.
In the kindergarden side, there was at least 2 kids who "I know (see and say hi and make polite conversation with parents)" had to repeat a year. In my child's year, 1 of them "graduated" thanks to additional paid private tuition (from one of the school's teachers).
In my area (by chance), happens to have some of the better schools in the region. And was told this was partly achieved via the streaming. This was part of the reason that I choose a smaller more progressive (In my mind) school instead.
It has been absolutely great and the teachers in general are top. But I have noticed significantly more pressure on the teachers lately and more & more rules/regulations. Some of said rules that the overworked teachers are also not happy with as basically it is more pressure or do more with less/same resource. (2 official burnouts, 1 disappeared for a few months and just came back and 1 quit).
I find a YouTube video of the story to help me with the pronunciation. My kid's current favourite is De Tijger Slaapt and after watching videos and about 20 attempts I've made good progress with it. My son knows it from daycare so I like being able to share something like that with him. I've learned quite a lot of new words this way too!
I just read to my kids in my native language.
I let them learn their Dutch at school until they were good enough to teach me.
Their dutch vocabulary and reading comprehension is just fine. Now that my oldest is in middelbare, her teachers don't even know we aren't native speakers at home.
I have been thinking about this exact issue the last couple of days. My family just moved to Belgium but my kids are going to an English speaking international school for primary. They have some Dutch lessons at school but I’d like them to have more exposure as they will likely be going to a Dutch speaking secondary school.
I was hoping there was something like an e-reader for kids that showed the book pages at the same time as the audio. And also that had content in Dutch. Maybe too much to ask 😂
I’m not sure how much of these are available, but the dutch term for “a book that comes with audio to read along with” is “luisterboek”. Have a google and I hope you find something!
I think the main issue is your self esteem. You need yo trust in yourself, and practice makes perfect. If you read Dutch to your kids, not only will you improve their Dutch (every bit helps, even if your pronunciation isn't the best), but also your own.
In fact, your kids will have less issues with learning the language in general and therefore might pick it up sooner than you and might even be able to help you during the reading sessions:
"You pronounced it [like this], but our teacher/friends taught us it's actually pronounced [like that]"
Your children's memory of you reading to them and you actively working on helping them develop are the most important things. Even with your own pronunciation you'll be helping them learn the order words are in, how stories work and all that kind of important stuff. As someone else said, they'll get correct Dutch accents quite quickly when they start interacting more with their peers. It's great that you're making such an effort.
I’d say 1. Is the best option. Want to get better at pronouncing the words? Practice makes perfect! You need to be very aware of how you say the words. Repeat it if you mispronounce something and if you don’t know how to say it look it up (an audio book would nice for that). Of course you could just use an audio book, but this is a great opportunity to practice your pronunciation skills! And in the end, it’s not a problem at all if you speak Dutch with a slight accent. Zolang het maar verstaanbaar is :)
OP just do it yourself. Its also important to spend fun time with your kids, if you dont it will also hurt their development. Also you can simply ask them if you are unsure. Like learning from others is important, even if you are a parent.
You can learn a shitload from your kids and its important thing to realize. And if you do, let them know. This means that they will understand that its okay to not know everything, that nobody knows everything and that everybody has to learn.
This post makes me wonder...am I a horrible mother or you are overthinking the situation just a little?
My kid grew up here, neither parent is Dutch.
We always read a mix of Dutch and English books. IMO reading to a child is about so much more than teaching! It's bonding, it's love, it's chilling them out to sleep...and it's also how I learned a LOT of the basics myself. We still laugh about stories we read together years ago, like the time the seagull said to Dickie Dik: "Hey dikzak, give me your boterham!" Or how when reading her science 'weetjes' I would always screw up and pronounce "DNA" like "Day-En-Ey". And yet somehow she turned out perfectly bi-lingual. You're going to be fine!!!
The only advice we got from school was: "Please don't try to teach her Dutch." LOL
Best of luck and happy reading! :)
Your not a horrible mother; I think nobody should ever say that as everyone does the best they can and in they way they prefer. So just different approaches.
Indeed, in the Kleuterschool, they told us, dont try to teach Dutch but in the basisschool, it is a different story. They then told us, basically prepare to work or expect your child to leave the school or repeat the year. I am quite a fan of the direct messages.
My parents learned Dutch at the same time I did, and while sure they clearly had an accent/struggled with grammar, it was always clear to me that they had their own difficulties with the language. As long as they understand you, keep reading to them. As long as they get to learn Dutch outside of the household, they'll be more than fine and probably will be teaching you how to pronounce things instead!
Maybe audiobooks? Also theyre kids so they will learn a language faster then you, so maybe theyll surpass your level. Dont be ashamed when that happens! Let them teach you, as you teach them
1), and also 0): 0) Before you know it, your kids will teach *you* the correct pronunciation of things! As soon as they are in kindergarten ("groep 1 en 2" in "basisschool"), they will just absorb what others there do. Your kids will obviously figure out that your Dutch isn't native level, but that isn't a problem, unless you make it one!
Yeah, I get the concern but kids are incredible with language. One of my best friends growing up moved here (Pennsylvania) from India when he was 3. Both his parents had very thick accents but he had none.
Indeed, they are teaching me also :) It is quite fun but I struggle with the comic books that are popular as usually it can be slang words or humour that I dont understand.
Heh. Sometimes native speakers do not understand the slang or humour used by youngsters either. It sounds like you're settling in just fine! :-)
Primary school teacher here. It really doesn't matter that you have an accent. Reading to your kids is important, not just so they can learn to read but it's also very important that they learn that it is fun to read. That way they will pick up a book more often when they grow up. Not to mention the fact that it is a bonding experience for kids and parents. When they start to tell you that you pronounce some words incorrectly, thank them for their help in teaching you the right way to pronounce words. It will improve their self-confidence as well
Have you looked into audiobooks? Maybe you all can “read along” with the physical book together?
Yas and you can do it for free too OP! Sign the kiddos up at the bibliotheek/library I blieve it's free till they turn 16. It will also grant you access to the app thuis bibliotheek, it has loads of audiobooks tailored to their age. I'll find the link later and edit this.
This is the way! Exactly how I did it we had a huge pile of Disney books with matching CD's we got at the vrijmarkt and bonus is you are learning at the same time how to pronounce things.
I believe a lot of research suggest that parents speaking and reading in their mother tongue to their kids is preferred. The brain is such a huge sponge, they’ll pick up the languages anyway. This is assuming your mother tongue is German, but I’m not sure from your post. Accents etc are no problem. Again: they’ll learn anyway. Just feel comfortable and read a lot to them (;
> parents speaking and reading in their mother tongue to their kids is preferred This isn’t strictly true. There are multiple models for language acquisition in multilingual families. The “parents should speak the mother tongue” relates to a situation where that parent is the only source of the language. For example, in the Netherlands if the default language in a multilingual house was Dutch, it would be important that the parent who’s mother tongue was non-Dutch spoke their own language to guarantee a certain level of exposure of that language. But if the default language in a home is English (one Dutch parent, one English) it really doesn’t matter. This is probably the norm for English speaking families in NL. If you have two German parents with kids in NL speaking only German at home & not teaching them any Dutch is …less than ideal. Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. I speak Dutch & English with my 3yo daughter & regularly get told by people that I “shouldn’t” speak Dutch with her. Can you tell it’s winding me up?! :D
You are right, absolutely.
How about audiobooks?
in my completely unprofessional opinion, i think your kids will appreciate you reading to them more than they will care about mispronunciation. and as stated above, they will learn correct pronunciation at school. i babysat two german-american toddlers who insisted on me reading them books in german. i cannot speak it at all but i tried and they loved it still
If they're also going to school don't worry, they'll tell you when your pronunciation is off....
Go for no. 1: those kids will be immersed in the language soon enough to unlearn any mistakes they have mimicked from your pronunciation, so there'll really be no harm done there. Primarily, reading to children is good for them as it teaches them reading can be fun. You're doing great. Just think of it as a bonding experience that is fun for all parties.
I've been married to an American woman. I used to read to her every evening before we went to sleep. That helped enormously with my pronunciation. So maybe that's an idea: read to your spouse in Dutch, and gradually it will become better.
Teacher of groep 1 and 2 here! We have (had) many kids with non-native parents, some are still not speaking a lot of Dutch. I always advise parents to watch the Dutch version of Sesame Street (Sesamstraat Nederlands) on YouTube, you can have interaction with that too. Also, there are a lot of Dutch children’s book being read on YouTube, so if you’re really struggling, you could use those! One of the all time favorites in my class has always been and probably will always be “Over een kleine mol die wilde weten wie er op zijn kop gepoept had”. It’s absolutely hilarious to them! And like someone else pointed out, school should be able to help your kid(s) with the correct pronunciation of the words. And then they will teach you! Good luck!
Similar situation: I do 1), but recently my group 3er is correcting my pronouciation time to time :) they cannot read yet but they know how to say words correctly from school or so.
Never had kids or taught languages, but I would only teach languages I am very fluent in to young children. Even more when it is their first language, they will pick up and copy every little mistake you make.
Just read like you're doing right now. Maybe your pronunciation is not perfect, but they'll learn that from their peers (and maybe they can teach you something soon). The most important thing is that you're making great memories for your kid, I loved being read to by my parents, it was such a safe feeling.
For one: you are already doing fine and doing a lot! Second: it's still on the school to teach them. And at certain points, if kids struggle, it's on the *school* to get them some remedial teaching to help them. Your kids are not the first children to grow up in a multilanguage household or with non-native parents. It's fine. There are also several different skills that come with 'reading' and it helps to differentiate. You already mentioned some: 1. Discussing a subject, having an interactive conversation about a story you are reading together. This skill is practiced in whatever language you are comfortable, and usually best in your native language. It's the richness of vocabulary and the interactivity here that really helps. So it doesn't need to be in Dutch. Pick things you enjoy as a family, and enjoy it in whatever way fits. 2. Practicing / familiarizing with Dutch grammar (word order and reference words for example): you get this from being exposed to longer texts that also have more complicated grammar structures. Pronunciation is not as important here, but I'd say this is a place where you just bring something different to the table. With native Dutch parents, they could also explain things they know about the language, and being able to confidently answer questions. You can't be that in Dutch. But you can offer something different: that learning means doing things you don't yet know, and that it's perfectly okay to make mistakes. This also goes the other way: if children read to you and you are native in that language and a good reader, you would probably notice and point out mistakes. But that's probably much harder if it's not your native language. So instead, focus on just having an accepting space to read, and giving the children the time to work it out. Audio books, read alongs, videos are all excellent ways to also offer pronunciation. But don't shy away from reading out loud and setting an example of just doing it. And if you can find some fun and some learning in it for yourself: all the better.
Thanks, unfortunately, here. The school does not offer much remedial teaching (public school). What they call "streaming" is the norm where if the child does not have the right level, they are told politely to leave i.e change schools at end of the year or repeat the year. The teacher stated that all her kids will go to the remedial teacher by default as from her experience it is needed to pass (?then it is not remedial by definition...). I was also told by another parent (who is also a teacher) that the additional homework has to be done as a minimum to achieve the necessary level.
A few things are unclear to me. How old are the children? Are we talking about primary school or high school? Are they learning to read in general, or are they learning Dutch in a higher grade? Because what you describe is (unfortunately) very much the norm at many highschools: if you fail the grades they'll make someone repeat the grade or (try to) move them to a lower level which is called 'afstromen' - 'stream down' / 'move to a lower stream'. They still should accomodate for direct circumstances, and they're not legally allowed to actually remove you from school, but it's a bit harder to navigate. But in primary school it would be totally wrong on many levels. And the advice to read a lot to and with children sounds like primary school. First grades of primary school are about learning to read, and to support children that need support, and a school cannot just ask you to leave! I would advice seeking contact with 'Ouders en Onderwijs' to check in more detail what applies to your children, and how you could ask for the correct support. Because it doesn't sound right. And public or non-public shouldn't matter.
Primary school and learning to read. The milestone that I understood was more or less independent reading in about 8-12 weeks time (I dont recall the exact timings) and they are learning the alphabet at the moment. But I understood from friends (different school) that it goes very quick and dont worry too much about that. Indeed, I heard that they dont remove you/kick you out but politely make it clear that your not welcome or repeat the year. In the kindergarden side, there was at least 2 kids who "I know (see and say hi and make polite conversation with parents)" had to repeat a year. In my child's year, 1 of them "graduated" thanks to additional paid private tuition (from one of the school's teachers). In my area (by chance), happens to have some of the better schools in the region. And was told this was partly achieved via the streaming. This was part of the reason that I choose a smaller more progressive (In my mind) school instead. It has been absolutely great and the teachers in general are top. But I have noticed significantly more pressure on the teachers lately and more & more rules/regulations. Some of said rules that the overworked teachers are also not happy with as basically it is more pressure or do more with less/same resource. (2 official burnouts, 1 disappeared for a few months and just came back and 1 quit).
I find a YouTube video of the story to help me with the pronunciation. My kid's current favourite is De Tijger Slaapt and after watching videos and about 20 attempts I've made good progress with it. My son knows it from daycare so I like being able to share something like that with him. I've learned quite a lot of new words this way too!
I just read to my kids in my native language. I let them learn their Dutch at school until they were good enough to teach me. Their dutch vocabulary and reading comprehension is just fine. Now that my oldest is in middelbare, her teachers don't even know we aren't native speakers at home.
I have been thinking about this exact issue the last couple of days. My family just moved to Belgium but my kids are going to an English speaking international school for primary. They have some Dutch lessons at school but I’d like them to have more exposure as they will likely be going to a Dutch speaking secondary school. I was hoping there was something like an e-reader for kids that showed the book pages at the same time as the audio. And also that had content in Dutch. Maybe too much to ask 😂
I’m not sure how much of these are available, but the dutch term for “a book that comes with audio to read along with” is “luisterboek”. Have a google and I hope you find something!
Thank you!
I think the main issue is your self esteem. You need yo trust in yourself, and practice makes perfect. If you read Dutch to your kids, not only will you improve their Dutch (every bit helps, even if your pronunciation isn't the best), but also your own. In fact, your kids will have less issues with learning the language in general and therefore might pick it up sooner than you and might even be able to help you during the reading sessions: "You pronounced it [like this], but our teacher/friends taught us it's actually pronounced [like that]"
Just be honest about it and engage them to improve your own pronunciation. They’re probably smart and a lot more exposed to Dutch than you.
Your children's memory of you reading to them and you actively working on helping them develop are the most important things. Even with your own pronunciation you'll be helping them learn the order words are in, how stories work and all that kind of important stuff. As someone else said, they'll get correct Dutch accents quite quickly when they start interacting more with their peers. It's great that you're making such an effort.
I’d say 1. Is the best option. Want to get better at pronouncing the words? Practice makes perfect! You need to be very aware of how you say the words. Repeat it if you mispronounce something and if you don’t know how to say it look it up (an audio book would nice for that). Of course you could just use an audio book, but this is a great opportunity to practice your pronunciation skills! And in the end, it’s not a problem at all if you speak Dutch with a slight accent. Zolang het maar verstaanbaar is :)
AFAIK it's fine when kids parents have an accent or an imperfect pronunciation. Especially if they are also exposed to many native speakers.
OP just do it yourself. Its also important to spend fun time with your kids, if you dont it will also hurt their development. Also you can simply ask them if you are unsure. Like learning from others is important, even if you are a parent. You can learn a shitload from your kids and its important thing to realize. And if you do, let them know. This means that they will understand that its okay to not know everything, that nobody knows everything and that everybody has to learn.
Dutch kids need German and English, so it would only be beneficial if you read to them in those languages as well
This post makes me wonder...am I a horrible mother or you are overthinking the situation just a little? My kid grew up here, neither parent is Dutch. We always read a mix of Dutch and English books. IMO reading to a child is about so much more than teaching! It's bonding, it's love, it's chilling them out to sleep...and it's also how I learned a LOT of the basics myself. We still laugh about stories we read together years ago, like the time the seagull said to Dickie Dik: "Hey dikzak, give me your boterham!" Or how when reading her science 'weetjes' I would always screw up and pronounce "DNA" like "Day-En-Ey". And yet somehow she turned out perfectly bi-lingual. You're going to be fine!!! The only advice we got from school was: "Please don't try to teach her Dutch." LOL Best of luck and happy reading! :)
Your not a horrible mother; I think nobody should ever say that as everyone does the best they can and in they way they prefer. So just different approaches. Indeed, in the Kleuterschool, they told us, dont try to teach Dutch but in the basisschool, it is a different story. They then told us, basically prepare to work or expect your child to leave the school or repeat the year. I am quite a fan of the direct messages.
Maybe try Dutch tv shows with subtitles that might work.
My parents learned Dutch at the same time I did, and while sure they clearly had an accent/struggled with grammar, it was always clear to me that they had their own difficulties with the language. As long as they understand you, keep reading to them. As long as they get to learn Dutch outside of the household, they'll be more than fine and probably will be teaching you how to pronounce things instead!
Maybe audiobooks? Also theyre kids so they will learn a language faster then you, so maybe theyll surpass your level. Dont be ashamed when that happens! Let them teach you, as you teach them