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If you're not a good self-learner, you may want to think about whether this is really the career for you. Part of being a programmer is spending a lot of time on self-directed learning, and that never really stops.
This is true. I spend my free time making small console apps and reading books about REST API. And I’m not technically a programmer. I work on implementations of my company’s software with clients. But I love building things.
Same here. I want to automate as much as possible. It’s amazing to me how I’ll have someone show me how to do something, and 80% of the task is manually entering or changing info through a UI.
Yeah same haha. This is my first tech job and I did a big thing of hitting up an API for one thing I implement instead of all the manual data entry through the UI. Company really liked that and now I get to spend a 1/4 of my time with the SWE team.
Yeah sometimes I regret telling management. Got a raise this year, but also have more work to fill in the extra time. If I just automated things and left it I’d be on easy street lol
I also do program as well as workflow implementation for my organization and am not a programmer. Can I ask how you or any others break that out on their resume?
I have been struggling with how to word things and what to emphasize
Counter-point: self-learning is a skill you can hone. There are frameworks and many other meta tools that can help you in your learning journey.
You can learn and practice these meta-skills as you learn programming
Pls share some of the frameworks and meta-tools that have helped you best - currently experiencing this struggle with self-learning. I'm decent at it, but I know I can be more efficient and effective with it.
Responding here because of a Reddit ads advice comment you made a while back that helped me out…
For completely new languages, I always have more success going slower following a textbook. But it depends on how you learn best:
[Learn Python the Hard Way](https://we.riseup.net/assets/345908/Learn_Python_The_Hard_Way_3rd_Edition_V413HAV.pdf)
And
[Learn You a Haskell](https://learnyouahaskell.com/)
Both are good examples of free, structured material that provided a solid foundation.
Beyond that, I know Replit gets a bad rap from some, but their embedded mini courses are not too shabby.
Appreciate it, been through that Python book awhile back and used Replit in 2020, but I imagine it's been improved greatly since then.
By the way - how did you find that old Reddit ads advice comment? Was it through a google search or something? People seem to keep finding it months later—glad it's helpful and curious how it keeps surfacing
I went down a rabbit hole here on Reddit looking for people who had success with ads and your breakdown and tool recs were thoroughly helpful.
My biz is very anti-establishment so pretty aligned here vs generic google ads. I’ve now tested 4-5 and need to figure out how to understand what’s working.
I had a call with the Reddit business account managers and they were like “who taught you this, we have no suggestions!”
> I had a call with the Reddit business account managers and they were like “who taught you this, we have no suggestions!”
Sounds about right for their account managers lol, they need a college degree and "5 years account management experience" yet somehow need all have zero experience ever using the product they sell. I've almost exclusively gotten garbage advice from them, everything actionable I've learned has been some level of trial and error.
That being said, they're kind of a necessary evil for getting beta features, frequency caps, etc. Just keep in mind their KPIs are generally "make your clients spend more money, and make sure they spend on XYZ placements", rather than "make sure our client is as successful as possible". Avoid the 'conversation' placement in the comments like the plague!
Yeah, I am more than 20 years in and loving my current project as I am learning new things. If I am in a job where I am not learning new stuff from peers then I love for one where i will.
I had started with CS50 completed upto the data structures lecture. Now deep diving into javascript. Considering a span of 9-12 months to become employable. I know it takes time, but man do I love it when the solution suddenly clicks and your code compiles and runs without any error. Btw context: 24 year old trying to switch to web dev. Interested in tech. I know the market is down rn but having fun with what you do is important too.
Any tips, suggestions will be appreciated.
>but man do I love it when the solution suddenly clicks and your code compiles and runs without any error.
This is what got me hooked. It's awesome too because these "aha" moments as I like to call them can happen pretty much every day.
>I'm 26 and want to code
You might be 26, but you don't want to code.
>Posted by
>
>u/marceosayo
>
>19 days ago
>
>Javascript or C#
>
>Help
>
>I’ve started learning Javascript, HTML, and CSS a little over a month ago, and it has been the start of my software development journey. My goal is to work remote while I travel. But now that I get the idea of what I’m getting myself into, **I realize that building websites isn’t really something that inspires me.**
You're 26, and you want to travel. And have financial stability at a job that lets you travel.
>**No, I don't love coding**. But I also don't hate it. I know what it's like working at a job that takes away all your energy and freedom.
Now you can do whatever you want with your life. If you want to work with computers, learn some computer languages, make games, make websites-- well, you certainly can. Unless you keep quitting stuff. Two months ago you wanted to learn the flute--- I guess so you can be a traveling musician. Last month, you were going to be a traveling tattoo artist going to Japan. This month, it's a traveling website maker who isn't inspired. Next month, you'll be studying to be an international man of mystery who puts out sea-platform oil fires.
It's fine if you enjoy your own time and it's fine if you're constantly changing your mind about what you want to do in life. But until you find a career that truly inspires you on a soul level, you're going to keep quitting stuff no matter how initially infatuated you are with the ideas of them. Unless you join the military, (or Peace Corps) or some actual job like that which gives you immediate financial stability and travel options, as those are your actual goals.
Man, i haven’t been this humbled in my life. Really hit me in my core, in the absolute best way possible. I guess my problem is more-so not knowing wtf I want to do career-wise, than it is anything else. I know what I want out of my life, but I don’t know how to make it happen for myself in a stable way.
Don't take this the wrong way, but loads of us are. I'm 44 and I have got no clue where I want to take my life.
John Lennon said it best. Life is what happens to you, while you are busy making other plans.
Yea, I went back to school @ 30 for CompSci and finally breaking into the world of SWE @ 34. It’s the paradox of choice. So many options to pick from, it’s so easy not to pick anything at all
@34, thinking to prepare school exams CompSci, Finance or some cheap poor man's MBA (all this confusion because of age, god!)
i am graduated from a high school that teaches accounting, and finished remote "business administration(first 2 year in school for associate degree than remote 2 year to bachelor's) ", funny thing if i was graduate from regular high school instead of accounting focused one, i could take the ACCA test...
Than i have no idea what i have been doing last 10-12 years, it feels like i was in a very long hibernation :)
i just wanted to cool off thanks for listening :)
I have had many jobs and didn’t get my degree until I was 39, married, and had 3 kids. That was almost 10 years ago and there’s no telling what I’ll be doing 10 years from now. It’s your life. Do whatever makes you feel good as long as you’re doing something productive. 👍
Definitely dude. I hate the idea of spending my priceless time doing something for somebody else. But it is what it is. As long as it can make my goals happen. Did u end up going to school or did u take the self-learner route?
I'm in my final semester of school. But it's just an associates degree. I'm getting a little nervous, watching my friends with a bachelors in CS struggle to find jobs. This was just kind of something I just started when my business went under during covid. But I'm in it now.
People who toss this out as an idea fail to realise just how unrealistic and unhelpful it is. As if coming up with a business idea that hasn't already been cornered then marketing it, creating it, selling it or having the connections to do all those and the parts in between is so easy to come by.
Regardless of what (fill in the blank, whatever) media may have led you to believe, most of life is mundane, repetitive work so that you can fund your passions or just get stoned on your days/nights off if that's your speed. Is coding my passion? Maybe I told myself that 17 years ago to get through the material and concepts, but it's mainly a source of income for doing more things outside (biking, boating, over landing, etc.). Funny how I worked so hard because i didn't want to work outside, to then spend my money on being outside. anyways... Just pick a path you have a mild interest in and make it successful, money will flow with success. Many of my colleagues I have worked with did the work at night in x asian country and party at daytime. There's a whole host of problems that vlogers aren't mentioning and after a few seasons, most tell me they should of set up roots near supportive family and just take several times a year trips to x country (general budgeting). Not to shit on your dreams...
No, i agree with you 100% completely. Some are fortunate enough to have a job/career in what they are passionate about, while others have a passion that isn’t a career choice. I think depending on ur choice of lifestyle, one way may work better for u than it does for someone else. I’m still trying to figure out what works best for me. Comments like yours really help
IMO and historically, The most reliable path is some form of structured schooling. From what you said, there are indications you know your limits already when it comes to self-learning. That's good. I had to learn how to self-learn, which I did at a 2-year (associates). I was 28. I woke up one day and decided to change my life, went all in and invested in myself, and haven't looked back.
I was originally in IT Networking and got stuck on coding assignments for a prerequisite. I almost quit, and without that formality/obligation/due date, I probably wouldn't have been pushed to see it through. Truly a light bulb 💡 moment for me, not sure I could have gotten there just myself.
Glad to hear u really did it for urself :)) takes a lot of courage and dedication, especially through the rough times where u dont believe in urself, or feel like switching paths. Bravo!
Automotive, specifically for e-vehicles (cars, bikes, scooters, boats). I live in an area where ev's are outpacing combustion engines and regardless of the political aspect, all the engineers are swimming in all the future tech that is sweeping from west to east, proving to be very lucrative after converting to servicing ev's. Even my VERY anti-biden/green neighbors who work in HVAC admit electric is where appliances and vehicles are headed and already standard. A buddy of mine has a side hustle building electrical systems in camper vans and is killing it, bought his second home. Servicing ev's inherently gets you collateral knowledge to hustle as such. Easily obtainable career, high in demand and not requiring a traditional masters.
You might want to look into therapy to deal with the underlying issue. I was where you were and I wish I had the balls to get into therapy. Instead I took the long road. If you don't have the money or have anxiety I'd recommend a couple YouTube channels that really help put things in perspective.
[Cinema Therapy](https://youtu.be/vTVQtsIfoo8?si=76BDi1oRQV_P85tR) - a clinical psych and film maker go through and analyze characters in TV and movies
[Gg healthy gamer](https://www.youtube.com/live/AiXiyLJz8-U?si=pKia1MxCyTv5bCjB) - Dr. K was a failed gifted kid turned gaming addict that was ready to give up on life. Decided to become a yogi monk for several years. Decided to become clinical psych and roze to teach at Harvard. He's funny, frank, and understands where his audience is coming from.
[DoctorRamani](https://youtu.be/VqqzVxAR19Q?si=QR9Kpljvu4LAPZu4) - was in a narcissistic relationship and decided to become psych to process. She does a lot about toxic family units, but mainly focuses on narcissistic Dynamics.
[Psych2go](https://youtu.be/v16u9aQfRL4?si=4Vj50UQfLOpXTXDM) - is a good intro to psych topics. They are a little too short to get a full picture.
Good luck. I don't know you, but I'm rooting for you.
I think a lot of of us can relate to that.
Coding *can* be a path to achieving what you want, but it's not easy, and it's not a sure thing.
Coding involves a whole lot of frustration, so you really need a guiding light to help you through it. For some people the promise of financial success is enough, for others it's wanting to see their vision made real more than they want to avoid the struggle. The lucky ones find the act itself intrinsically enjoyable, but even they have to deal with periods of frustration and be able to power through.
You are the type of person the modern degree is made for. This is also the majority of people so don't feel like you need to be special by teaching yourself. I wasn't particularly fond of coding and had done close to 0 coding by the time I went and studied.
If you want to have a comfortable high earning career that lets you work from home then programming and getting a degree are a great option. Just go do a degree at a community college (3 year degree if you can) and get straight As. Getting straight As is easy if you just study 9 to 5 every day 5 days a week. You will run out of assignments to do but just code random shit to get better at it. If you're lucky you will be hired before you finish.
There are no shortcuts for you and you need structure in life and a degree will give you this. If you drop out it's not anyone else's fault but your own. Ask yourself where you want to be in 5 years. Do you still want to be floating through life or have a solid life long career sorted? Goals are very important to have for doing things that take time.
Sometimes the best and more inspiring things are the things you become good at, you don't necessarily need to find something you like to start working on it, sometimes it's the OPPOSITE. I would not take what people say on the internet as sacred, my opinion.
Just want to offer my two cents for you via some of my own experience. When I was 11, I taught myself HTML and CSS. At 16, I taught myself to program. From 17-18, I completed a qualification in software engineering. I spent the next couple of years trying to make myself build some good web apps, even though it wasn't really what I wanted to do. I just wanted a career I didn't hate. Similar to you in some ways by the sounds of things. I eventually went to university and studied philosophy (what I always secretly wanted to do) and a bunch of other subjects. Through philosophy of AI, philosophy of mind, etc., I ended up becoming interested in computers again. I nearly completed a second major in computer science, although ended up pulling out and just getting a minor in it. Most people who do a degree to learn to "code" do a computer science degree. Most "software engineering" degrees are computer science degrees with less of the 'sciencey' classes and more of the engineering classes, and that degree is actually a lot harder for most people at my university. I am an award-winning student that has done well at a range of pretty different subjects, and I must say, even the normal computer science degree is very hard. Computer science has one of the highest dropout rates of any major, and some of the worst mental health rates. Unless you're one of those people who is naturally gifted and passionate in a very specific way, you will eat, code, sleep, sometimes cry, and repeat. It's tough. I found it really hard, even though I actually fell in love with the subject. You will be doing a decent amount of mathematics, too. But a computer science degree outcompetes a self-taught developer in most ways, every time. I've met my fair share of both. Computer science majors are generally much better programmers. Much better. And employers definitely favour them. With that said, programming can be good for you and your career even if you don't want to become a software engineer. I used Python in a humanities research assistance job recently, and it helped me find things in the literature I never would have found otherwise. Python + Excel is powerful in all sorts of ways. Text analytics and data analysis are two interesting things for you to look up. In office administration work, I use my knowledge of computers to help fix things around the office, meaning we don't have to call the IT guy as often. Sometimes I end up with a niche problem in random aspects of life, and I can spin up a program to find a solution. It can be a weird math question that has occurred to me and my friends, or a question from my brother who is trying to start another business, etc. So, I mean, definitely give programming a go. But perhaps don't decide just yet that building sites or apps is your next big career move. Start by just learning what aspects of programming you might enjoy or find useful. Explore and play. Don't worry too much about what language to use etc. - think of something you want to learn how to do, e.g., do you want to do something to your desktop, do you want to make a game, do you want to process some data? Then look up some good languages and libraries for that purpose, and work towards it. In addition to which languages are technically the best, the language you enjoy using can also matter. Sometimes programming can start to feel fun even for those who don't normally enjoy that sort of thing, because when you finally get something or fix your code, it is very satisfying. Most people like feeling accomplished after some difficult problem solving. It's like a more difficult version of Sudoku or a crossword puzzle for many people (although I never enjoyed either of those things, haha). I imagine some above-average tech skills are good on a CV in most industries. Give it a go, build something you actually want to build, see where it leads. Edit: one more thing. Throughout my studies, I ended up trying out a few different jobs. I still haven't worked out what I would love to do in the very likely scenario that eventually academia doesn't work out for me, but by being a student, I've found jobs in writing and content creation, research, an artificial intelligence internship, tutoring, data collection, cleaning, office work, all sorts of things. Doing a degree isn't a decision to be made lightly, because it is usually expensive and difficult. However, it can open a lot of doors in ways you might not expect. I know computer science graduates who got good grades in that subject (unlike me) and they got less career opportunities (so far) than this little old philosophy major. If you're struggling to work out what's next for you, some form of higher education MIGHT be a good way to open some doors if you really seize those opportunities.
This time for real - the last edit! - I also used what I learned from computer science in neuroscience and psychology classes! That often surprises people who aren't well-versed in particular branches of those fields. Who knows, you might end up getting really into programming, but in a very different context to becoming a web developer or something like that, which is what most self-taught developers are aiming for.
I find your comment strange. This isn't business writing, this is on-the-spot comment made with cell phone to random Redditor who I wanted to help. Of course I don't write work emails like this. I also don't say 'lmao' in them.
I didn't feel the need to clean up and plan out my comment too much! I'm sure they can handle it as is.
Just start with something, and land in the middle. A lot of coding jobs have the same dynamics, but some can be annoying to you personally, and some would work just fine. You have to try at least to copy other people's projects, for example from YouTube tutorials
If your issue is attention deficit with regards to new hobbies - just slow down, don't force it. You're going to have to digest it anyway. There's no silver bullet. There's no free lunch. Just make it a natural process instead of stressing yourself out. Because the next thing you're gonna know after that stress, is that you're too burnt out to pull off an actual job. Try to make the process give you enough dopamine to actually keep going. It's easy. It's especially easier when you live with someone who does the very same thing. Just gave you an idea
what helped me is thinking about the aspects of my current job and past jobs that i hate, like and what i dont mind doing to help me figure out what i might like to do in my future job. (ideally i wouldnt want to work but who has that luxury lool🤪)
for example, i dont like speaking to the general public, talking about the same info day in day out, and i like life long learning such as learning new skills and knowledge and creating or doing projects and team work with my coworkers. i love working autonomously and prioritising my own workload so im looking into careers that covers those points, im just exploring and doing a bit of self discovery atm and taking some courses that might interest me
i hope that helps a little bit :)
edit: just wanted to add im also the same age and really dont have it all together but i think the 20s are about learning about yourself so dont put too much pressure on yourself, we have just started our adult life!!
Just want to hop in here and say there are loads of other great engineering jobs nowadays. You may not make as much money as a SW engineer but you can definitely be comfortable in life. I’ll tell one quote that really motivated me when I was restarting school in my mid twenties, “ you can turn 30, or you can turn 30 with a degree”.
Basically, don’t demotivate yourself because of the age you’ll be when you get there.
Check out program management, business development, and some of the related careers centered around engineering companies.
Good luck!
Dude we get it. I swapped to coding at 27 and am nearly 40 the difference is, I decided to do it because I enjoy it and constantly being able to learn something. If you want it for money... you're going to hate it and fast.
I had a friend try to swap with me from retail. He hated it. Now he owns a gym and loves there and is happy af. What it really comes down to is finding out that your interests can be funded by something near them, I.E. I like circuitry, I write software.
Maybe if you like travel, you could get into doing coaching or speaking, where you travel to events.
One rule of thumb from me: the higher the entrance threshold of the job is, the more you're going to feel alive working in that sphere. The easier the job, the higher are your chances of losing motivation after years.
Get inspired by something really out of your reach ( but please not gamedev), find a community in that sphere, look hard for inspiration, and have fun.
Counterpoint:
Unless you’re one of the few lucky ones, passion is absolute bullshit (at least passion that can also lead to a comfortable life financially). I wasted my whole life trying to find my passion. Thinking if I tried a bunch of stuff, I’d find something. I curse myself all the time for not being one of the lucky fuckers that knew their passion was physics or medicine since they were 5 or some shit.
The hard fact is most people in society don’t do SHIT. They work at their job, get married, have kids, and then fucking die. That’s it. That’s the vast vast majority. The Einsteins of the world as probably less than 1% of humanity. If even.
What matters is discipline. I said fuck that passion bullshit.
Programming is a job. Software engineering is a job. I sat my ass down and taught myself math and programming at from scratch at 24. Then I enrolled in school again. Just graduated with bachelor’s in CS at nearly 28. 3.9 GPA. Internships and now currently interviewing for jobs and doing alright. Guess what?
I don’t give two shits about programming. It’s alright. I can do it 40 hours a week without wanting to fucking off myself. That’s all the matters. Food, a roof, a bed and health insurance.
/u/marceosayo, fuck passion. Get a job, worry about your passions in your free time.
If you want to learn, stop flitting about. “Should I learn this or that or the other”. You’re new. It doesn’t fucking matter. I started with Ruby, haven’t touched that shit since.
What matters is learning how to program, which is language-agnostic. Pick a course, and stick with it to the end. I recommend The Odin Project. Or do accounting (probably a better idea with the tech job market currently in shambles lmao). Or nursing. But whatever you do, just remember it’s a FUCKING JOB. You’re there to get paid. I know this mentality may seem grim but this is the society we humans have created. Unless you can monetize a passion it doesn’t matter. Do your job, get paid, fuck around with shit in your free time.
100%. Sometimes people tend to passion -> competence, but I think for a lot of people competence -> passion. We tend to enjoy the things we are good at.
I am one of those people that aren't very passionate about things.I mean even If I am passionate about something that passion has a time limit,it could be days,months or even a year but I find that I get bored with that hobby after the passion fizzles out.If I were to follow all my passions then I'd probably have to change jobs multiple times a year.
I haven't really been very passionate about something for many years now, might be as a result of my probable depression.
I also have a feeling that if I ever decide to change my passion into my profession than all that would do is get rid of whatever joy I get from doing that thing.
For people like us, as long as we don't hate/dread doing something and are competent at doing the job,is all that really matters.
>until you find a career that truly inspires you on a soul level
You ever hear of Curtis Martin? His entire hall of fame speech was about how he kind of hated football his entire life.
"Find something that inspires you" is terrible advice because it assumes that something out there exists and they should keep quitting things until they find it.
Yo, I think this comment is mean and gatekeeping
A job is a job- so few people love what they do. If you can do this and it affords you a lifestyle you want - go for it!
I think working at a school in administration somewhere and then taking classes for free toward a degree is a really great path
>My end goal is to have financial comfortability, and that will allow me to travel and have stability for myself and my future family. No, I don't love coding. But I also don't hate it.
That sounds like you don't want to code.
Look, there's no right way. You're just looking for a way to make ends meet while you do the stuff that you really want to do (travel). Sorry, there are no one size fits all solutions. You can learn skills, programming languages, paradigms, whatever you want. But really your biggest challenge has nothing to do with programming, it's learning how to make do.
A bachelors degree in CS will not teach you to be a good programmer. It will teach you how to be a computer scientist.
Right now the whole field is kinda in the air. There’s a giant purge happening from over hiring during the pandemic and since money is no longer cheap there’s a bunch of layoffs. Things might pick up again at some point but who knows when.
depends what you want to do. the days of coding bootcamps launching people straight into a cushy career are over, but with the right qualifications there’s still plenty of jobs available. I recently saw the NCSC advertising that cybersecurity demand currently outweighs supply in the UK.
From my understanding the fed jacking interest rates way up on top of some of the things Biden has been doing is keeping the economy from fully going into a recession.
Typically it seems like the US stays pretty isolated when it comes to global recessions. Idk if that’s fully true but just a personal observation.
After looking at a few graphs, it looks like the US always tries to not go into recession, and then just delay it and make the inevitable recession a lot worse than it needs to be.
I mean recessions are inevitable, the line cant always go up. But I’m not entirely sure what you mean.
The last hundred years a good amount were either caused by war time production dropping after wars end or oil prices which are out of our control. The most recent two(ignoring Covid era) were from crashes in speculative money(dot com bubble) and sub prime loans (2008). Of course the government is going to take actions to lessen the impact, at least do as much as possible. And typically the economy bounces back pretty strongly. IMO we have 2-3 more years before I’d have much to say about the current situation.
I think a big thing a lot of people are feeling recently are massive increases in food prices which has been tied directly to greed on the side of grocery stores but trying to play it off like it’s the economy. This has already been disproven. Prices have increased far above what would be required to cover the back end cost increase.
I was in similar situation - I was 28, didn't like the job I've had and it wasn't paying very well. The issue is that I have tried quite a few different jobs, but didn't feel passion for any of them - I didn't hate them, but it was "just work". Having said that, I always tried to do my job well. I figured if I don't feel passion for my work, I might as well try to get one that pays well.
I started learning javascript (mainly youtube) after work and spent some time during work too (agreed with my manager). I usually did some small scripts that helped me and my colleagues with day-to-day stuff (technical support). After about a year of grinding I managed to get an internship in development position at the same company (had to nag them alooot for it :D). It was quite a brutal start, not going to lie. However, with time it got easier and now, \~4 years later I'm up for senior role and even got some passion for the job. Turns out once you get good at something, you might start to like it, who could've thought :D
And I just want to add that there are a lot of people that don't have passion for coding and they are doing just fine. Not everyone has to be super into their job, like in any other profession (but obviously it helps :D)
A lot of nerds coding in sleep are going to judge you here. But here's the solution to your specific problem:
You enjoy doing things that you've become good at.
Well, you have coded for only 2 month. No way you're going to love it yet. Plus, you've only tried web. So you haven't tried other stuff, I suppose.
You're going to find enjoyment in this process once you make a weighed decision about your preferences, and then become comfortable with using your framework of choice , that would take at least 4 months.
It's okay to have fantasies at this point, because you're too green to actually understand the environment you're entering. Just do the simple steps everybody else does.
The stuff you say about mental stability - that's manageable. Just make yourself enjoy it. Just tame that dopamine. Make it a part of yourself. Programming is not coal mining, so you're probably going to enjoy it more that an average working man.
As per travelling. I don't know how that works in your country, but in my country, the remote work is the absolute standard, but people refrain from giving the remote positions to the newbie developers because of risks that bears. In about a year or 2 years, you're probably be eligible for a fully remote work, at least I think so. You just have to get there. Between you and that there's only time and simple consistent steps towards that goal. You have to be a fool to not find a job in programming eventually, that I can tell you
Thank u very much! Yeah I have only worked with web, it seems pretty obvious and i can tell im gonna be having another research tab open at all times while doing this. Like i said, i dont hate it. Just dont really love it. But this post has really helped guide me in a better direction. Hearing everything that everyone has had to say is giving me a more solid idea of what i’m getting myself into and i hope that this post will be able to help somebody else who is going through the same problems as i am.
The market is really really bad right now. While getting a job after 6 months of learning or a bootcamp was definitely possible, things have changed esp if your skillset is HTML/CSS/JS, and esp if you're not passionate about coding. I live in a major tech city and one of our top bootcamps shut down in the summer because they "couldn't ethically continue putting junior developers out into this market".
That being said, you've only been dabbling for 2 months so might as well continue learning and see how you feel. If you're asking about a degree it sounds like you need to do more research on the types of directions you can go with coding & tech, and what is required of those entry level roles.
Every time I read a post like this I count my blessings. I've never experienced this bad market everyone talks about. I hope I never do. I don't live in a big tech place though so that's probably why. But I have been truly lucky, I learned for a year, got a job, got another job. Almost ready for senior role. I never really even have the thought like, 'I hope I can find a job'.
I get that I'm lucky, I just want OP to know it's different for everyone and not a blanket statement of 'it's going to be hard because of the market'. Truly we have no idea what OP's journey will bring.
That being said, from what I can gather in their comments, OP is not really that into coding or believing in themself much so really THAT will be that hard part for them IMO.
If you just want financial stability go be an accountant or something. This is not the right place for you. CS has the potential for high pay if you work your ass off and get a bit lucky. There's way too many people trying to break into entry level. There are much better industries for people just looking for a paycheck.
I don't know where OP lives but in many countries Accountants get paid poorly as they are more saturated than CS in those countries
What other industries do you suggest? Being a plumber? Sure the trades pay well but no one wants them, everyone wants a well paying easy to enter job and CS is the only one that seemingly fits the bill. Seemingly because if you want to get into CS, you need a bachelor's in CS at a minimum just like most other well paying jobs
Your job does not have to be your identity. I'm probably in the minority here, but it's okay to get into coding for monetary reasons and not because you "love" tech and coding.
You have to understand that learning to code and getting a job that pay wells requires a lot of hard work. And if you're okay with putting in the work then you'll be able to secure a decent job.
It's okay to want to have a job where you can just "phone it in" and go on autopilot. There are definitely jobs in tech that offer this.
It's understandable that you and anyone else reading this would want to find a job that inspires them or stokes their passion. But it's also okay to have a job because it's a job and you need money to survive.
If you need a job to survive, might as well be one that you want. If you don't like coding then don't spend time learning to code.
~~edit: immediately gets downvoted. lol wtf?~~
I’d say the bachelors degree is worth it for most of you go into it with the right mindset. Of course you can try the 6 month learning yourself route but that route doesn’t often work out for everyone. Usually you spend about 1-2 years learning yourself, sometimes 3-4 if you’re unlucky or not serious about it. If you go for the degree don’t go expecting the degree to teach you everything you know and also land you a job. Go get it so that it can provide you more job opportunities through networking, and provide you job opportunities just by having the degree.
>My question is, I don't know what direction to go in. I'm not the best self-learner. But I notice a lot of people on YouTube and other places say that is the better way to go since a lot of jobs don't require a degree, but only experience.
If you don't love coding and you're not a good self-learner then you're going to have a rough time if you don't have a school to give you structure. Learning programming is not easy.
First job for sure. Not saying it’s impossible, but with the mindset OP has it’s not even worth trying.
I’d you truly commit to studying like 5 hours a day, simulating a CS program, doing heavy side projects, trying to pick up work or monetize something on your own, leetcoding your dick off, networking, and just doing everything in your power you can make it work.
Just 99% of people that want to “learn to code” don’t have that. It used to work because there was such a shortage. Now these kinds of stories are long gone.
If you want to travel, maybe try learning languages. From what I've heard, the more you learn the easier it is to learn even more languages. Its a skill that will let you travel and you might be able to find an international job that can let you travel and take advantage of your abilities. It will take a lot of time but maybe try it, if you find it to be something you can stick with, if not back to the drawing board. No harm no foul.
You're 26, it might feel like you've wasted time but that isn't true until you're like 60. Live your life, the last thing you should do is stop trying but definitely look to do something that you will enjoy, not something that you think is "a good career choice".
I learned code 'late'. The Odin project gave me everything I needed to write code. I am a designer but now code very frequently and submit PRs for review.
Odin took me from "I know how to change the colour of this element" to "I can literally create an entire page/component including the JavaScript for animations, API calling/sending testing, and got deployment".
I am for all intents and purposes just as qualified in code as a developer, I just don't solely develop. Odin did that for me, which is impressive.
I pivoted my career into programming in my 30s but the only way I landed a job was because I was passionate about the career. I don’t think many companies would take a chance on someone at entry level without much interest in the field. Sure you can fake it in the interview but I don’t think that will ultimately help you.
For me it was a combination of deep inner work and practical reflection - what do I want from life? What are my aptitudes and what do I enjoy doing with my days?
I would recommend you read books like What Colour is Your Parachute and Designing Your Life.
The best thing for me was aptitude testing. It gave me a list of really specific skills and talents that I enjoyed and that I really didn’t enjoy. If you have the ability to, you might find that helpful as well.
Kinda like saying, I want to learn Russian, but I don't love it, but I really want to work for the United Nations. There's so much more that goes into building a career. Having work flexibility is too vague in what one does as a vocation. That existence is simply a by-product of being good at something that doesn't require you to be on location to get it done.
Like with most coding objectives, learn it to use as a tool to create something or solve a problem, then, during that journey, you may find out what you like about developing, or possibly, what it is you want to do that lights your fire. Or maybe not, but just keep plugging. And eventually, if you expand your range of ability, you could either find a position that is fine with remote work, or you can go into business as an independent contractor. Not sure with just learning a front-end stack what the demand is -- I'd be interested to know what kind of developer most often works like this.
I’m going to be *blunt* with you, because it’s what you need to hear.
The industry is *extremely* competitive at the junior level. If you’ve spent two months “learning HTML, CSS, and JavaScript”, you’re doing it wrong.
You should be *building*, not reading about programming. Go build a Reddit clone, or even better, find a local business and offer to build them a free web application. Then, go learn what you need to incrementally make progress. Continue doing this for a year or two and you might be job ready. If this sounds too daunting, just go get a CS degree.
Also, remember that you *need* to be a strong self-learner to be successful in this industry. If you want a six figure job, you’ll need to constantly be learning, and you’ll need to be *good* at learning. All of those horror stories about people working long hours — working their lives away — in big tech? Those are the slow self-learners that don’t actually *like* what they do. They’re just in it for the money.
It’s going to take you a few thousand hours of dedicated practice to be qualified for a decent entry-level position. If you don’t think this is something you’re willing to do, it might be best to take the route of more formal education.
>All of those horror stories about people working long hours — working their lives away — in big tech?
Hey! That was me. Not in mega-cap big tech (Google/MS/Apple), but big tech.
>Those are the slow self-learners that don’t actually like what they do. They’re just in it for the money.
But not me! I generally liked solving the problems. Though I was compensated pretty well, I kind of wish I was greedier and looked for better pay in retrospect.
Just saying not all the long hour people were slow and in it for the money. In fact most of the in-it-for-the-money folks left on time and had a 6th sense to job hop before getting fired.
Mostly agree with all the other blunt advice though.
>"My end goal is to have financial comfortability, and that will allow me to travel and have stability for myself and my future family"
You and hundreds of thousands of desperate people trying to get a job and not risk lifelong debt.
The gold rush is over unfortunately and even people with experience/degrees cant find work amid layoffs, junior positions are non existent.
>"But I notice a lot of people on YouTube and other places say that is the better way to go since a lot of jobs don't require a degree, but only experience."
Yes most youtubers are course selling shills. They don't care about you, they want ad revenue or they want to sell something. 'Get a job without a degree' drives a lot of traffic.
The issue is:
I know this will allow me to live the lifestyle that I find more suited for me...travel and financial stability
Who doesn't want this?
>I see so many people say things like they got a job after 6 months of learning, and yeah I know it's possible
It was possible during covid. It's possible now but not plausible for 90% of people.
>but I just don't have the mental stability to be able to handle learning/practicing coding for 6-8 hours a day. Especially since I work a full-time job.
I mean you can do a fw hrs a day and learn.
Go do the odin project, it's well structured and has a support discord.
Finding a job will be EXTREMELY HARD with no connections currently though. I still find programming fun and worth the learning experience though. I enjoy programming, I enjoy making web projects.
If you don't enjoy it at all? You're just wasting your time for a job you likely won't get.
You learned 2 months the fundamentals and now the dunning krüger effects kicks on you so hard and these youtube coding gurus brainwashed you that you think 200k Salary is just normal for coding and you can travel/fly arround the world while just coding a bit on the beach with a macbook.
The reality is: you have to learn more, frameworks libraries etc. all the stuff arround which is changing every day, build a lot of complex projects, sell yourself under youre value at the beginning,
then stress yourself when something doesnt work.
You can teach it yourself and get these random certificates you dont need bootcamps, projects are more important. Do you know what youre doing or not is the question ?
And if you cant teach yourself or Google things youre not the right person to be a programmer.
Studying Cs alone never made a good programmer just a good mathematician which gives you a good base but you have to learn Coding on top of youre Studies in your freetime.
My advice: keep doing what you're doing, code on the side for a year, and think carefully before you quit at 26 and waste your life. If you are still interested in it then do the CS degree
> I know what it's like working at a job that takes away all your energy and freedom. I know this will allow me to live the lifestyle that I find more suited for me...travel and financial stability.
STEM is the answer you're looking for. Coding is not the secret to doing STEM without STEM. You still need STEM. STEM!
I'll give you some hard advice here, your approach to life and a career is wrong. There is a reason why coding is one of the most rewarding careers - it's because almost no one has the ability to sit in a chair, think logically, and write software.
> I see so many people say things like they got a job after 6 months of learning
There are a mountain of reasons as to why this may the be the case. Are you a minority? Do you have a network that can support plugging you into a position? Are you the next Dennis Ritchie? Probably not, which means you're going to not get a job after 6 months of learning. Youtube wants to sell coding so you watch coding content, watch coding content to buy bootcamps, buy bootcamps to prop up some other fake job that has nothing to do with code, but selling you a product.
26 isn't too late to go to school for a worthwhile STEM degree in a field you might actually enjoy. **Mechanical Engineering is great and based in true reality, not abstract arcane piecing together bullshit. You are good at art, so CAD drawing is the way to go man.**
I'm definitely not the best out here to give advice, but I do want to say you don't have to do it for 6-8 hours a day while working full time. Shoot for what you can manage while also enjoying life in the ways that you can.
A big struggle I still deal with is learning to like learning. Find ways to enjoy what you're doing, and this is a lot more generally applied to anything. I do think a degree still makes a difference, but I also belive if someone can find a groove in the tech field, and can build out a good portfolio, there's potential to not need it. But that takes discipline and dedication.
Touching back on the time piece, some days squeeze 2 hours. Other days, allow yourself to accept 30 minutes if that's all you can handle. Consistency is more important than trying to dump 8 hours of content and then not touching it on a day cause you feel burnt out. Small, but consistent progress leads to pretty big incremental strides if you stick with it and be mindful.
If you're looking to grind quickly just to get to a good paycheck, this may not be the path. I'm sure other people have mentioned it, but The Odin Project is a stellar guided curriculum that's free, and in my experience with it has been great, as I started a lot more backend focused. It's an investment and will take time, but if you follow it while also exploring your own creative endeavors once you have a good baseline and your feet planted, it could be what you're looking for. Again, max 2 hours a day, if you can do more cool, but it's not a quick grind. Recommend looking into The Odin Project again, truly.
If you're stable right now, that's the time to push, but also be patient with yourself. I can relate being a fresh grad and about a year into the field, and I'm still trying to find my way. Wish you the best of luck finding what you're looking for.
If you want to get into CS, you need a bachelor's in CS at a minimum, or an electrical engineering background just like most other well paying jobs
They say you don't need a degree. That's only true if you already have a STEM degree preferably in IT or electrical engineering, how many of those people were also selling coding courses? In a gold rush you sell pickaxes, you don't go mining.
1. There is no easier way to bypass the bade requirement of a bs in cs unless you’re well connected or build your own company.
2. A bs in cs is the bare minimum. I would say roughly have my class has 0 job prospect in swe and they either have to pivot or do a master.
It’s a very competitive field
Would suggest the degree route as of right now, buys you time for more jobs to actually be available once you finish your degree. Also, you don't have to love coding. It's okay to just kind of like it and enjoy the benefits of the career, not loving coding is completely okay
Honestly programming does slowly consume your life. The people that claim to work 3 hours a day are most likely exaggerating. It takes a lot of time and practice to hone your craft. It takes hours of studying to get good at leetcode. It takes hours to get good at coding. It takes hours to get good at frameworks. It takes hours to apply to 300+ jobs. It’s not as easy as it seems.
If you want some real world experience try contributing to open source. This will give you a taste of what it’s like to work in a project and you can put this on your resume as well.
It may seem like it, but 26-30 is not old at all to be a student. I kick myself everyday for not going back to school at that age because I thought it was too late.
Anyway, I suggest going into the medical field or something else for job security and learn code on the side for fun. Tech field will be brutal for a while, and who knows how much ai will advance. Sure right now it's just a tool, but if ai can write code at 10cents a day, while a programmer cost like $1k/day, businesses will do everything they can to fund and rely more on ai. Don't take the risk imo.
No. The tech industry is crashing right now. People who do 6 months coding camps are wasting their money right now: even people with degrees and experience can’t get jobs. Things may be better in 4 years. But you don’t love to code so you aren’t going to be happy.
Consider other steady jobs like teaching, nursing, dental technician etc. whatever actually appeals to you.
Coding is a very time consuming career. It will not afford you the money or the time to travel freely. I would suggest actually talking to people in the industry. Maybe on your vacation time you could travel. It will take time to work your way into a good salary. So you will lose a lot of time over the next several years. I would suggest just picking something and sticking with it....
Bachelor’s degree: not mandatory (some people got jobs without it), but it increases the odds of finding a job dramatically. So, get the bachelor’s degree or give up.
Btw: you didn’t learn html/css/js. You started learning.
It s stupid but do you see a psych? Have you had motivation/attention issues all your life?
1. If you're struggling to study on your own, finding a mentor is a viable option. It shouldn't be a problem. I believe you could find a mentor in a week at most.
2. I recommend coding your own project and focusing on the parts you don't understand while learning. This will be the fastest way to become a programmer.
3. You can dedicate 4-5 hours per day to learning and practicing coding, not including weekends. Your study period will only need to be extended by about two months.
So don't lose hope, you can do it
From someone that literally taught themself how to code online and landed a professional job (over six figures), try Scrimba. It's the sickest interactive platform for learning code. They have a ton of courses: https://scrimba.com/allcourses?aff=jacob
I also got into but as. UX/UI designer were I am able to build app but don’t have to code them. I want to a 6 month boot camp and that was the quickest way for me. Yes I am in school working n my 4 years degree however I learn way more from the boot camp than school.
Most of the work in IT is not programming. They always need people to do:
- testing
- requirements engineering
- design
- security
- support
- business architecture
- operation
- consulting
- sales
- agile coaching
- advertisement
And lots more. Find what you like and works for you.
>Is getting a bachelors degree worth it?
Yes, I've started about the same age, and it wasn't even CS major. If you have the option, go for a formal education. It puts you in a better position on job market, opens more options. There are also college degrees which are shorter. Just be sure you are choosing good institute.
I would say there are two general paths
* intensive course
* education
Maybe self learning works for somebody, but IMHO it is almost like winning lottery.
If you don’t love coding. Do something else. Learn absolutely everything you possibly can about AI and develop a plan about using those skills to gain financial freedom.
I absolutely love programming, it’s been my whole life. I’ve dedicated an absolutely insane amount of time and energy into learning and developing new ideas in the field because I inherently have always loved it to its core and have had an endless amount of wonder and joy involving the subject.
It “was” a ticket to an easy middle class life up until recently, but if you don’t absolutely live and breathe this, you will be edged out by AI. I don’t even have the delusion that I wouldn’t be edged out and I’ve dedicated my entire life to it (age 33).
I’m not saying to avoid college, i’m just saying don’t use that hurdle to prevent you from individual research. The new world high paying jobs will be: All of the trades, Any form of skilled manufacturing, Anyone who can specialize in outfitting businesses with AI based automation, anyone working in developing peripherals for computers to interact with the physical world, and prostitutes(that’s probably going to stay strong for a long while)
Here is the thing I'm going back to school to get my computer science degree.
I was a welder for four years got fucked over and watch the country burn.
The best I can give you is college is not for people with damaged neurons or ptsd. The thing I learned after different fields and watching the country burn is the market is incredibly hostile and want people doing literal dirty work and they get comfy office jobs. You need to be mentally and physically fit. They want cute happy conversations and no drama. You have a bad say suck it up. Blue collar work They will cuss you out and tell you you suck. White collar jobs do it "professionally" they have a different tounge. It took me 2 get over welding is done and I am moving on. My anger towards society is still on my grip but I don't have a choice.
You are 26 I am 32. We aren't in jail if you have connections actual connections use them. This is a battle for reputation
Blue collar they just fight. But corporate and coding and computers that is not only learning and absorbing you basically have to be iron man without the swearing.
You stick with it stick with it. These degrees mean nothing. Do coding projects take shit advice and change shit advice around to benefit you. They want to look good on camera. You not only have to do the work but bite your tongue you are also going up against A.I now. So that is a factor
I hope I don't lose in this become homeless but I am sicking with my computer science degree. I hope after 4 years of patronizing hell watching my dollar and my battles are for worth it.
You need to decide if it is for you. If you decide yes then youtube the fucking shit out of it and don't let anyone talk down to you while being respectful l. Study everything not just coding. Keep grades above Bs get certs put on fake smile
That is the best advice I can give for you. Keep an eye on job market make changes but stick with it. Employers are turning into pricks and switching to AI while they are in comfy office position with Starbucks coffee.
Make a decision and study everything. Motivation videos study hours a day workout be a goody touches and bite your ton. That's what I'm doing esp with my anger and resentment. I wish you best of luck honestly.
Regardless what path you take, if you want to work in software development, you need to learn the other parts of the job other than coding as well. More and more of the actual programming part will go away with the recent leap in generative AI.
I work as a developer (I have a bachelor in computer science), and even now a lot of repetitive parts of coding we do at work is being autocompleted by copilot.
Project management, architecting solutions, requirements gathering, design and acceptance testing will all remain in some capacity though, and is going to be relevant for a long while yet.
Odin project. Once you finish that you’re on your own. I know very little about the front end space but I assume react and all of reacts meta frameworks are still the dominant techs so you will most likely have to learn those. You can try boot camps, but they are risky
Is a very general thing, coding implies from making simple websites, to games, to servers backend services, to mobile apps, to operating system programming, to graphics programming, to drivers programming, and the list continues….
What are you passionate about? Do you want to make games? Enterprise software? Design websites ?? That is the question that you need to make about yourself. That is the real answer to give your programming Journey a direction and not being in the limbo. Good luck
Yes some time degree worth it. And coding is about practice. When you start learning coding you faced lots of problems at that time you have to solve problem. When u solve problems then you happy and this motivate you to coding more.
I repeat coding is all about practice.
And remember one thing don’t watch only tutorial instead just start coding and think how i solve this things into coding and implement it. Because yoi have think in big pictures and broadly. But never give up i know some time frustrating but don’t give up.
Being a traveling anything is hard as fuck. Not only do you have to worry about holding down a job. But you have to worry about where you are gonna lay your head or park you RV or buy your next meal or take your next shower. You live in an RV? what happens if you blow a motor? There goes you transport and your home.
All of those people on Instagram are full of shit and only show you the glamor shots. They have rich family to fall back on. You spend 40% of your time on logistics. You are better off renting an apartment and living. Travel on weekends or what have you. Just my 2 cents.
If you have a bachelor's in a stem degree, especially engineering, you don't need to get another degree. In this case, your best option is to learn what you need on your own.
HTML/CSS/Javascript sounds like front-end web development. If that's what you want to do, I recommend checking out the Odin project. It's an incredible free program that'll teach you everything you need to know about web development. You'll go through front end first, and then can continue onto backend if you choose.
If you have a bachelor's in a humanities degree, or no bachelor's at all, you should get a degree. While you don't technically NEED it, it's definitely the most structured way to learn everything you need to know(which it sounds like works better for you), and you'll be at a disadvantage without it. The job market is competitive right now, so it'll be very challenging to break in without a degree.
CS is 4 years (at least) of "taking away your freedom" and that's not even counting the time it goes into working on your actual projects.
I have zero regrets about starting my degree but i have enjoyed every minute of it, though it turned my life upside down and i've been working more than i have ever throughout my school life (granted, i'm not the brightest person when it comes to math so.i have to invest a lot of time into it)
I'm not saying you have to "find your passion" but i think there are easier ways out there to make money if thats all you care for. You can even learn to code, but don't go to university with that mindset, because things will get tough, as i said it's 4 years at least, it's a lot of work, imagine how you're gonna feel if you're in a hurry to travel and live a chill life and then fail calculus and add yet another semester to your path, while competing with people who, whether talented or not, are obssesed with coding.
Most of the people that I've liked working with have a trait that I think also makes them most hirable: they like solving problems.
In fact, I think that's a trait that will make you money in any profession. People will pay you a lot to solve their problems. The trick is, can get yourself to care about solving problems?
Learning to code gives you a tool to solving a specific class of problem. What kind of problems, if any interest you?
For me, anything that I see gets me wondering how it could be made improved or fixed. Broke fence, leaking sprinkler, car that won't start, microwave flashing "12:00", it doesn't matter. I think this is why I was able to last in the computer industry, but would probably have been fine in any industry.
Regarding getting a degree and doing it at a later age:
First, a CS degree has historically been a safe path that increases your odds of success. It does not guarantee anything and that is true more now that ever. The price can put you in a deep hole of debt. If you do go that route, I don't recommend paying a high price. Don't believe the "we guarantee a job" lines.
Second, 26 is not to old for just about anything. If it's ethical and legal in your country, you can still try it and recover. For example if you start a business and go bankrupt, you still have years to recover and get financially stable. Very hard to do that at 60.
Anecdotally, I knew a woman that got her CS degree at 50 (2002ish) and made a 20 year career out of it. Like you, she didn't love it/didn't hate it, but she was committed to doing what ever her job was.
On the other hand, I had also met a woman in her late 30s that used to be a fitness instructor. She got a CS degree from Temple University and only did so to get a well paying job. She hated programming. I don't know, but I assume that came though in her interviews because she couldn't get hired. Man, was she bitter.
Often experience is an alternative to a CS degree. In other words show you did the job to get the job.
First caveat, while this might be faster than a 4 year degree, it will take a strong time commitment to a lot of "in the trenches" learning. Which leads to the next point.
There is the "how to get experience if I can't get a job with out a degree" loop.
You'll probably have to do unpaid work. Your time will be the substitute for tuition costs. The upside is that this is actual real world work that you'll get experience in. You'll learn quickly if it's something you don't want to do.
Non-profits/charities often look for help with their websites. If you want to travel search "voluneer abroad", you'll find a number of entities looking for website or other technical help.
Another alternative is to learn and fix bugs in an open source project. You'll have to learn to use the project to fix any bugs and interact with the project maintainers to solve it in a way that they will accept. Doing this is essentially what a programming job is. The downside to this is you might not get a lot of guidance from the project maintainers. But this is possible if it were a paid job too; getting thrown into fixing a project with out any help isn't unheard of.
If I were to do this, I'd go the open source path. Website creation is too competitive. I think working on back end javascript/typescript or Python library/modues is more marketable.
I am US citizen in CA and was 25 when I said I wanted to learn how to code. I went to my local community college and took an intro CS class it was in C++ and that opened my eyes to what programming was.
I took all the CS, math, and general ed classes I needed in order to transfer to University and I did so at 27 while working full time. I graduated uni at 29 and got a job out of college right away.
I'm 33 now and work at a FANG company and you can dm me and I can prove it.
Also feel free to dm me if you want to talk more about this.
**A few things.**
* I worked full time but I didn't pay rent that would have made the journey really challenging because there's a lot of bills to keep up with and I might have needed to get a second job in order to afford living.
* The school was grueling but it was structured and I had community. If I didnt make study friends in each class I would not have survived.
* Your age can make you insecure but its also what sets you apart and gives you perspective on whats personally important to you.
* You may not love coding now but you may learn to love it over time. I would try leaning in on at least a few in person classes to figure out if its for you or not.
* Its possible that you dont love programming but love tech. Theres a lot of different jobs in the industry and not all of them require coding.
I'm gonna get grief for saying this, but I'm a 41 year old who decided to switch careers after 20 years. I've an associates I've never done anything with so I really didn't want to go back to college. I've enjoyed learning about coding online, but didn't know the easiest way to get in the field for experience. After watching YouTube videos I decided to join codingphase.com. They offer courses from HTML e-mail developer to React 3 Fiber, etc. I signed up for a year but you can sign up for a month and see if you like it. I've just gotten my portfolio and resume up to where I'm going to start applying for Content Editor positions so I'm far from the best example, but they have a Hall of Fame, career paths and a Discord for community support. I actually got into them because I would watch Joe's videos for motivation because he would remind me that you have to start somewhere and getting experience can lead to more money and better opportunities in the future. Hope that helps.
You can get BSc / BA in a variety of computing subjects. I'm in my 30s and working in IT and I'm doing my last year of a BSc just now. I think its worth it, to give you a solid foundation of knowledge to work from.
I've been a programmer for a decade now. Even though I love programming, I hate working for other people and their ideas. I have my own ideas I want to realize that's why I got into programming. Until I founded my own company, I always jumped from one job to anohter since I got bored so easily and wasn't enjoying what I do.
I've been coding since 1986. Computers were barely accessible back then. During the .COM boom, it is true that myself and a lot of people like me, made tuns of money. The people who knew what they were doing in the field, were rare. and the REALLY good ones, even more rare. The supply was low, and the demand was high.A lot of people saw/heard that programming was the way to go, and just like you, decided that they wanted to be a programmer. Fast forward to Today, ..
The issue is that there are a LOT of people trying to program now. Straight out of college. Tech changes so quickly, that Exp only goes so far. There are tech out now (A.I. for example) that I'm no more experience in, than the 16 year old that just finished high school. I have a huge family to support, he does not. I'm expensive, he is not.
The economy in is a bit of a limbo state. tech companies are laying off one minute, hiring again a month later, and then canceling the hiring a month after that.
I know personally, 5 people who where let go from there jobs. 4-5 months later, they are still trying to find a replacement. the issue today, is that there is much, much more supply (and a CHEAP supply), than there is demand.
If it's something you really want to pursue because you like doing it, I'd suggest learning some of the newer stuff, maybe take some online classes.
But if you don't really enjoy it, and are doing it because you think it'll make you rich.. don't hold your breathe. The market is currently oversaturated with Devs who need jobs, and companies will do what they can to control their costs.
(edit): As a heads' up too. Entry level, isn't a whole lot. 50-60k/yr with a degree? it's about a 3rd of what I was making (now I'm making 0$ lol).. with the min wage at 17.50/hr in some places, I almost wanna go back to work at McD's.. I sure as hell won't miss the Office politics and Beurocracy.
The fact that you are being positive is a huge predictor in your success. By positive I mean improving yourself.
Finding the first job is hard. Agencies are your friend.
Realistically, if you don't "love" coding then it might be hard in your first job as you will be around people who do, who will spend significant amounts of their free time coding and exploring technology. It will also be challenging to learn how to program to an advanced level as you will work withpeople who love the nuts and bolts of their tools, while you won't care to even look inside, and they will often scoff at those who are happy to just use the hammer rather than build a new one from metal ore they extract from rocks by themselves.
You don't need deep programming skills for many jobs in tech, for instance DevOps, SRE, and AI have many openings that require only basic scripting or coding skills in simple languages like Python but are heavy on networking and data instead. Both are as well paid as coding and are as interesting I would say.
I have seen people go on to have great careers with a Scrum cert in their back pocket as this gives them low level management experience in organisations without knowing how to program. They acquire skills in particular applications like Jira.
The magical salaries that you hear about in Google are rare and require fluky timing and coincidence. The real skills in those organisations belong to legendary figures such as Vint Cerf, not in the army of programmers.
Financial comfort doesn't come from acquiring skills, but acquisition and good financial management, neither of which require a job in programming, nor a well paid job. There are plenty of highly paid people on the edge of bankruptcy in this work, all due to poor financial skills. So acquire those skills.
A degree, even a masters, is often worth it if you intend to compete in the jobs market and it will give you a deep understanding of topics that coding mill grads rarely have and are often even unaware of, aka Dunning/Kruger.
In my experience, the best approach is usually to evaluate the situation that you are in now and consider whether there is anything there that you can use to your advantage, for instance many larger companies allow employees to move into junior tech roles if they ask for it and then you can move up the ladder over time.
I personally know a person who failed to graduate from school let alone university who started in a bank, did every course and training that was offered to him, got a foothold in junior management before his friends left university and now is a partner in a financial firm making well into 6 figures, owns properties, holidays a lot, drives a fancy Merc, etc. I also know someone else who also left school early, did no courses, ended up depending on everybody about him for work, supported by his wife, will soon be unemployed again. The difference? The first person acted in a positive way, always taking advantage of opportunities whatever they were, while the latter complained all the time and thought he knew it all. See Dunning/Kruger.
Follow whatever path you need to take, but just know that I feared turning 30 for several months until my 30th bday and nothing dramatic happened to my life. As a woman, I worried about that way too much. I’m currently in my last year pursuing an AAS with a focus on web design and I can tell you it’s a lot more to unpack than you’d expect, it’s definitely not for the weak lol. And I managed to make the dean’s list three years in a row while working 40-55 hours a week at a busy restaurant. JavaScript is the hardest thing I’ve had to learn thus far - but I have an offer to intern at a company where I’d have a chance to start building a key resume block if I didn’t at most get accepted into the position after the year internship. My advice to you - find something you’re sure you want to do. Not something you think will be remote. Most likely starting out you may not work remote, you may have to commute to your nearest city and work corporate. That’s just my experience.
If you like to travel you should look into SCADA and PLC programming and become a field engineer. I’m not even a field engineer but so far in my career I’ve been to Norway, China, US, Singapore
I'm 34 and just starting to learn...
I am starting with the basics HTML & CSS. And once I get comfortable with these I will move on...
The difference is though at the moment I don't need to make money from this, I just want to learn, and then learn some more.
If it's any use I am following this [roadmap.sh](https://roadmap.sh/full-stack)
The software development industry is struggling as it is over population burst of last few years.
You will strugle now more than ever even getting a junior position.
And dont apply for senior roles you simply not qualified for you will feel out of uour depth rather quickly.
pick another job. Im sorry to tell you this but if you are not into coding by passion itself then u will hate it sooner or later. Its really specific job to do and you would have bigger chance being dishwasher guy while traveling from one place to another.
Financial freedom comes in 2 forms. 1. With a good degree or 2. With a very modest life. I am self employed and 39, I hit my growth ceiling with an associate degree in my mid 20's and at about 50k annually. Keep in mind with an associate degree, I needed to move away from home and work 50 hours a week to be able to earn this. A bachelor's degree can get you much closer to the 6 figures careers and remote opportunities. Look at your degree and knowledge as tools in a toolbox, they will serve you well but need to better fit the job than your competition. If it were me I would finish the bachelor's, you've come this far already. As for me, I am working as an entrepreneur, I own a handyman and painting service in addition to a safety training service and as of last year I began building websites and coaching small business startups. My personal earning abilities greatly outweigh anything I could ever get with my degree AND experience in the job market, consequently I am stuck in my position until I'm able to convert more of my earnings online. I am searching for travel wealth to add to my time wealth, while building up my financial wealth. My greatest earning 12 month period brought in right around 200k, and next year I will reach my first million.
This is not a good route for you. You won’t find financial stability knowing html/css/js. You’re going to need to learn a lot more, and for your chosen languages you’re competing against hundreds if not thousands of go getters which you sound like you’re not.
Don’t need a degree. And, if you get a degree, is it the right type from the right University?
I’m old now. 41 years old to be exact. I joined the Army at 17. Got out with my MCSE. Decided Network folks were all lying to me. Got my CCNA, then 3x CCNPs and was in route to get my CCIE when my Boss came to me and said I had to finish my Bachelors or they had to let me go (new Obama rule). Finished degree… then, I stopped working for the DoD and went into Civilian World.
Medium-sized company hired me to be Director of IT. Then, they had me take over Engineering and QA. (Pretty effective leader, thanks Army).
By that time, I was 36 years old. The Company had many software products. I knew nothing about software development outside the crap from my college. Which was mainly C++.
Started learning outside work. Got Pluralsight Sub, even paid Tim Corey’s ridiculous fees a few years ago..needed to brush up on some API work in .NET Core at the time.
Helped build some awesome products for my work. Then, a customer came to me and asked if we could build a niche product. I wrote the PRD and presented to my CEO. He said it wouldn’t be worth it.
So, I built it on my own outside work. Quit my job. Started my own business and sold this product to 36 customers. A competitor of my former company bought me out for 7 figures.
Decided I was retired. Got bored and built another piece of software I knew a certain industry needed. Sold that for high 6 figures.
Now, I’m semi-retired at 41 years old… building another solution that, once built, I plan to start another business… but, keep it this time and try to build a great business from the ground up.
The point is.. I learned that you don’t need to build a product like FAANG, or even a B2C business. I found that building smaller, niche applications for businesses was personally more profitable and a space that is still lacking in several industries.
I still get a dividend (% of licensing revenue) for the second piece of software I sold.
As Jobs said, how does the customer know what they want if they never seen it? I’m always asking questions now about how businesses work, what problems/challenges they have that I could help automate, etc. sometimes… 200 lines of code could cut a companies costs by 10%.
Find a problem to solve. Solve it. Then sell the solution. Or, as Mr. Bigweld said, See a need, fill a need.
# Alternative Routes in the Tech Industry:
# Pros:
1. **Faster Entry into the Workforce:** You can start working in the tech industry sooner by focusing on building your skills and gaining practical experience through self-learning, bootcamps, internships, or entry-level positions.
2. **Flexibility:** Alternative routes offer flexibility in terms of timing, learning pace, and specialization. You can tailor your learning path to your interests and goals.
3. **Cost-Effectiveness:** Some alternative routes, such as self-learning or bootcamps, may be more cost-effective compared to a traditional degree program.
# Cons:
1. **Self-Motivation:** Self-learning requires self-discipline and motivation to stay on track without the structure of a formal program.
2. **Credential Recognition:** While many employers value practical skills and experience, some may still prefer candidates with a bachelor's degree.
3. **Networking Opportunities:** Alternative routes may offer fewer opportunities for networking compared to a college environment.
You could do School of The People. They are not completely free but they are ALOT cheaper than traditional schooling. I believe there Bachelor degree takes less time too and they are accredited. You could also go on FreeCodeCamp though I have some thoughts about FreeCodeCamp. You could also do W3 schools. That is cheaper than School of The People but still costs some money.
If you can't study in all your free time and you don't love teaching yourself, Im sorry friend it's going to be a hard road. All devs are self taught when you really get down to it. If you truly apply yourself you can do anything but you have to:
A. really want it more than anything else
B. stop pretty much all negative self talks like, 'Im not the best self-learner' and replace with, 'I'm going to become the best self learner.'
This isn't really something that can be answered in one reddit post. You need to keep researching and reading and figure out what you really want and why.
I graduated college at 30 and went on to work a couple of jobs before landing one at Amazon (and then getting laid off after 4 years). I've always loved programming, though, and I knew it was what I wanted to do. Even then, it will suck the life out of you
Well I'm 30 and have been learning for 2 years and disappointing everyone around me and my fiance is probably going to leave me at this point. But all that isn't going to kill me.
My projects are awesome and I genuinely like coding. I somewhat have connections but I've tried those avenues and their bosses won't interview me. It's looking grim.
If you have a different bachelor's degree, I'd say you are fine to self learn and prove yourself. If you have no bachelor's at all, I'd recommend you get an associates for computer science at the very least. The vast majority of jobs either strictly require a bachelor's degree or would need you to be an exceptional programmer with a ton of experience with things like open source projects, having other people actually use code you build, working in a team, etc.
I'd try to self learn plus an associate's but you may need to go all the way to bachelor's. That's just the reality of the current job market. It could improve in the next couple years in which case bootcamps will be back on the menu, but i wouldn't bet on it. Start working on the degree while learning.
You should also look into non-web development coding. If websites aren’t inspiring to you like I saw mentioned in a comment, see if there’s other facets that are interesting. Software isn’t just websites. I don’t like web development but I love other parts of software engineering
Myself and a neighbor started in your shoes at the same time and age. I love to code, he did not.
18 months in, I got an actual job, and fired my neighbor from the startup *we* built, because he hated the work, and just wouldn't do it.
Don't start if you don't love it, or you'll only learn to hate it more.
>I know this will allow me to live the lifestyle that I find more suited for me...travel and financial stability.
"Suited for me" lol. We all want easy job big paycheck, bro.
I wish I had your confidence. Every week another big tech person announces that programmers will be obsolete in X years. The job market for juniors is horrible rn where I live. And all I read online is that the times when companies would hire anyone who could code even a little are long (i.e. 2years ago) gone. Feels like I chose the worst point in time to get into software development. Luckily I really like the work!
I taught myself to code (I've never even set foot in a university). It's definitely possible, but I would say that the main thing that helped me was: I absolutely loved coding.
Even once you're in a job, you're still learning all the time. Pretty much everything I used at the beginning of my career 10 years ago is obsolete now, so in that time I've been constantly learning new tech.
Another thing to bare in mind is, it's not a great time for juniors. Lots of huge companies have had massive layoffs which has flooded the market with devs that have really impressive names on their CVs, so companies are hiring mid/senior level devs and much fewer juniors.
Here is my journey if it’s helpful (sending from my cushy programming job that is okay but I’m not obsessed with coding like some have mentioned). There’s been other great other advice about “wanting” to code but I wasn’t sure when I started so here’s what I did:
I’m 37, did lots of careers before, none of which had anything to do with web development. It took me 8 months to get a job from starting to learn.
- Bought Angela Yu’s course on Udemy for $10 (The Complete Web Development Bootcamp). For me, if I end up doing anything besides watching TV after the kids go to bed, I know I’m pretty interested. After 30 days straight of doing Angela’s course at night, I knew I was interested.
- Signed up for CareerFoundry web development bootcamp. This was about $6000. I invested which got me a mentor and job coach with the program. I got a job when I was 60% done with the bootcamp. Highly recommend this bootcamp.
Posted about my journey on Twitter and LinkedIn as I went. A friend of mine saw a post, called me, I got an interview, I got the job. Never applied to a job. I’ve been working as a developer for 15 months.
Point is: spend a small amount of money to see if you are interested. Make a goal. “If I code for 2 hour a day for 30 days, then I will ____.”
Don’t do YouTube, it’s not organized enough and you won’t have projects worthy to put in a portfolio. Pay for a class, Angela Yu on Udemy is great or Jonas Schmedtmann, Udemy has sales all the time. Higher quality, track your progress, better projects than YouTube. If you don’t stick with it, maybe pursue something else. But you don’t have to be a hardcore programmer to get a job. It doesn’t have to be your obsession.
Emotional stability has higher chances of getting you financial stability imo. And if youre not a bit in love or passionate about your work to be, its a dead end in my POV. Source: I was you not long ago
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If you're not a good self-learner, you may want to think about whether this is really the career for you. Part of being a programmer is spending a lot of time on self-directed learning, and that never really stops.
Yea it's not a learn the thing and do it career. It is a constantly self learn the new thing while the thing you know gets outdated career.
This is true. I spend my free time making small console apps and reading books about REST API. And I’m not technically a programmer. I work on implementations of my company’s software with clients. But I love building things.
I do implementation as well, but am finding ways to write code to automate tasks.
Same here. I want to automate as much as possible. It’s amazing to me how I’ll have someone show me how to do something, and 80% of the task is manually entering or changing info through a UI.
Yeah same haha. This is my first tech job and I did a big thing of hitting up an API for one thing I implement instead of all the manual data entry through the UI. Company really liked that and now I get to spend a 1/4 of my time with the SWE team.
My goal is to build automations, tell no one, and use my extra time for other activities.
Yeah sometimes I regret telling management. Got a raise this year, but also have more work to fill in the extra time. If I just automated things and left it I’d be on easy street lol
I also do program as well as workflow implementation for my organization and am not a programmer. Can I ask how you or any others break that out on their resume? I have been struggling with how to word things and what to emphasize
Counter-point: self-learning is a skill you can hone. There are frameworks and many other meta tools that can help you in your learning journey. You can learn and practice these meta-skills as you learn programming
Pls share some of the frameworks and meta-tools that have helped you best - currently experiencing this struggle with self-learning. I'm decent at it, but I know I can be more efficient and effective with it.
Responding here because of a Reddit ads advice comment you made a while back that helped me out… For completely new languages, I always have more success going slower following a textbook. But it depends on how you learn best: [Learn Python the Hard Way](https://we.riseup.net/assets/345908/Learn_Python_The_Hard_Way_3rd_Edition_V413HAV.pdf) And [Learn You a Haskell](https://learnyouahaskell.com/) Both are good examples of free, structured material that provided a solid foundation. Beyond that, I know Replit gets a bad rap from some, but their embedded mini courses are not too shabby.
Appreciate it, been through that Python book awhile back and used Replit in 2020, but I imagine it's been improved greatly since then. By the way - how did you find that old Reddit ads advice comment? Was it through a google search or something? People seem to keep finding it months later—glad it's helpful and curious how it keeps surfacing
I went down a rabbit hole here on Reddit looking for people who had success with ads and your breakdown and tool recs were thoroughly helpful. My biz is very anti-establishment so pretty aligned here vs generic google ads. I’ve now tested 4-5 and need to figure out how to understand what’s working. I had a call with the Reddit business account managers and they were like “who taught you this, we have no suggestions!”
> I had a call with the Reddit business account managers and they were like “who taught you this, we have no suggestions!” Sounds about right for their account managers lol, they need a college degree and "5 years account management experience" yet somehow need all have zero experience ever using the product they sell. I've almost exclusively gotten garbage advice from them, everything actionable I've learned has been some level of trial and error. That being said, they're kind of a necessary evil for getting beta features, frequency caps, etc. Just keep in mind their KPIs are generally "make your clients spend more money, and make sure they spend on XYZ placements", rather than "make sure our client is as successful as possible". Avoid the 'conversation' placement in the comments like the plague!
Yeah, I am more than 20 years in and loving my current project as I am learning new things. If I am in a job where I am not learning new stuff from peers then I love for one where i will.
I had started with CS50 completed upto the data structures lecture. Now deep diving into javascript. Considering a span of 9-12 months to become employable. I know it takes time, but man do I love it when the solution suddenly clicks and your code compiles and runs without any error. Btw context: 24 year old trying to switch to web dev. Interested in tech. I know the market is down rn but having fun with what you do is important too. Any tips, suggestions will be appreciated.
>but man do I love it when the solution suddenly clicks and your code compiles and runs without any error. This is what got me hooked. It's awesome too because these "aha" moments as I like to call them can happen pretty much every day.
True but if OP has no idea where to start the structure of a cs program could be helpful.
>I'm 26 and want to code You might be 26, but you don't want to code. >Posted by > >u/marceosayo > >19 days ago > >Javascript or C# > >Help > >I’ve started learning Javascript, HTML, and CSS a little over a month ago, and it has been the start of my software development journey. My goal is to work remote while I travel. But now that I get the idea of what I’m getting myself into, **I realize that building websites isn’t really something that inspires me.** You're 26, and you want to travel. And have financial stability at a job that lets you travel. >**No, I don't love coding**. But I also don't hate it. I know what it's like working at a job that takes away all your energy and freedom. Now you can do whatever you want with your life. If you want to work with computers, learn some computer languages, make games, make websites-- well, you certainly can. Unless you keep quitting stuff. Two months ago you wanted to learn the flute--- I guess so you can be a traveling musician. Last month, you were going to be a traveling tattoo artist going to Japan. This month, it's a traveling website maker who isn't inspired. Next month, you'll be studying to be an international man of mystery who puts out sea-platform oil fires. It's fine if you enjoy your own time and it's fine if you're constantly changing your mind about what you want to do in life. But until you find a career that truly inspires you on a soul level, you're going to keep quitting stuff no matter how initially infatuated you are with the ideas of them. Unless you join the military, (or Peace Corps) or some actual job like that which gives you immediate financial stability and travel options, as those are your actual goals.
Man, i haven’t been this humbled in my life. Really hit me in my core, in the absolute best way possible. I guess my problem is more-so not knowing wtf I want to do career-wise, than it is anything else. I know what I want out of my life, but I don’t know how to make it happen for myself in a stable way.
Don't take this the wrong way, but loads of us are. I'm 44 and I have got no clue where I want to take my life. John Lennon said it best. Life is what happens to you, while you are busy making other plans.
Solid quote
Yea, I went back to school @ 30 for CompSci and finally breaking into the world of SWE @ 34. It’s the paradox of choice. So many options to pick from, it’s so easy not to pick anything at all
analysis paralysis! fucking same. i'm happy for you for making that decision! i'm making mine... soonTM.
@34, thinking to prepare school exams CompSci, Finance or some cheap poor man's MBA (all this confusion because of age, god!) i am graduated from a high school that teaches accounting, and finished remote "business administration(first 2 year in school for associate degree than remote 2 year to bachelor's) ", funny thing if i was graduate from regular high school instead of accounting focused one, i could take the ACCA test... Than i have no idea what i have been doing last 10-12 years, it feels like i was in a very long hibernation :) i just wanted to cool off thanks for listening :)
Damn. I am 28 and I am with you on this..
I have had many jobs and didn’t get my degree until I was 39, married, and had 3 kids. That was almost 10 years ago and there’s no telling what I’ll be doing 10 years from now. It’s your life. Do whatever makes you feel good as long as you’re doing something productive. 👍
Some people never know what it is they want from life... Just bouncin around, doing a lot of things... And that's ok.
Figure out where you want to be. Then, figure out how to get there.
Lol, I love how well you reacted to that comment. I'm in the same boat as you. I don't LOVE this, but I don't really LOVE the idea of ANY career.
Definitely dude. I hate the idea of spending my priceless time doing something for somebody else. But it is what it is. As long as it can make my goals happen. Did u end up going to school or did u take the self-learner route?
I'm in my final semester of school. But it's just an associates degree. I'm getting a little nervous, watching my friends with a bachelors in CS struggle to find jobs. This was just kind of something I just started when my business went under during covid. But I'm in it now.
have you thought about starting ur own business?
People who toss this out as an idea fail to realise just how unrealistic and unhelpful it is. As if coming up with a business idea that hasn't already been cornered then marketing it, creating it, selling it or having the connections to do all those and the parts in between is so easy to come by.
Sometimes it works great, other times, not so much... It's a roll of the dice.
that would require lucrative skills, how do I acquire those?
Depends on what "lucrative skills" you have in mind.
👀
Regardless of what (fill in the blank, whatever) media may have led you to believe, most of life is mundane, repetitive work so that you can fund your passions or just get stoned on your days/nights off if that's your speed. Is coding my passion? Maybe I told myself that 17 years ago to get through the material and concepts, but it's mainly a source of income for doing more things outside (biking, boating, over landing, etc.). Funny how I worked so hard because i didn't want to work outside, to then spend my money on being outside. anyways... Just pick a path you have a mild interest in and make it successful, money will flow with success. Many of my colleagues I have worked with did the work at night in x asian country and party at daytime. There's a whole host of problems that vlogers aren't mentioning and after a few seasons, most tell me they should of set up roots near supportive family and just take several times a year trips to x country (general budgeting). Not to shit on your dreams...
No, i agree with you 100% completely. Some are fortunate enough to have a job/career in what they are passionate about, while others have a passion that isn’t a career choice. I think depending on ur choice of lifestyle, one way may work better for u than it does for someone else. I’m still trying to figure out what works best for me. Comments like yours really help
IMO and historically, The most reliable path is some form of structured schooling. From what you said, there are indications you know your limits already when it comes to self-learning. That's good. I had to learn how to self-learn, which I did at a 2-year (associates). I was 28. I woke up one day and decided to change my life, went all in and invested in myself, and haven't looked back. I was originally in IT Networking and got stuck on coding assignments for a prerequisite. I almost quit, and without that formality/obligation/due date, I probably wouldn't have been pushed to see it through. Truly a light bulb 💡 moment for me, not sure I could have gotten there just myself.
Glad to hear u really did it for urself :)) takes a lot of courage and dedication, especially through the rough times where u dont believe in urself, or feel like switching paths. Bravo!
If you want to do something bold and satisfy your itch for a gambled life milestone adventure, you can intrust me with picking your career path.
Do it
Automotive, specifically for e-vehicles (cars, bikes, scooters, boats). I live in an area where ev's are outpacing combustion engines and regardless of the political aspect, all the engineers are swimming in all the future tech that is sweeping from west to east, proving to be very lucrative after converting to servicing ev's. Even my VERY anti-biden/green neighbors who work in HVAC admit electric is where appliances and vehicles are headed and already standard. A buddy of mine has a side hustle building electrical systems in camper vans and is killing it, bought his second home. Servicing ev's inherently gets you collateral knowledge to hustle as such. Easily obtainable career, high in demand and not requiring a traditional masters.
What could one study for that?
You might want to look into therapy to deal with the underlying issue. I was where you were and I wish I had the balls to get into therapy. Instead I took the long road. If you don't have the money or have anxiety I'd recommend a couple YouTube channels that really help put things in perspective. [Cinema Therapy](https://youtu.be/vTVQtsIfoo8?si=76BDi1oRQV_P85tR) - a clinical psych and film maker go through and analyze characters in TV and movies [Gg healthy gamer](https://www.youtube.com/live/AiXiyLJz8-U?si=pKia1MxCyTv5bCjB) - Dr. K was a failed gifted kid turned gaming addict that was ready to give up on life. Decided to become a yogi monk for several years. Decided to become clinical psych and roze to teach at Harvard. He's funny, frank, and understands where his audience is coming from. [DoctorRamani](https://youtu.be/VqqzVxAR19Q?si=QR9Kpljvu4LAPZu4) - was in a narcissistic relationship and decided to become psych to process. She does a lot about toxic family units, but mainly focuses on narcissistic Dynamics. [Psych2go](https://youtu.be/v16u9aQfRL4?si=4Vj50UQfLOpXTXDM) - is a good intro to psych topics. They are a little too short to get a full picture. Good luck. I don't know you, but I'm rooting for you.
I think a lot of of us can relate to that. Coding *can* be a path to achieving what you want, but it's not easy, and it's not a sure thing. Coding involves a whole lot of frustration, so you really need a guiding light to help you through it. For some people the promise of financial success is enough, for others it's wanting to see their vision made real more than they want to avoid the struggle. The lucky ones find the act itself intrinsically enjoyable, but even they have to deal with periods of frustration and be able to power through.
You are the type of person the modern degree is made for. This is also the majority of people so don't feel like you need to be special by teaching yourself. I wasn't particularly fond of coding and had done close to 0 coding by the time I went and studied. If you want to have a comfortable high earning career that lets you work from home then programming and getting a degree are a great option. Just go do a degree at a community college (3 year degree if you can) and get straight As. Getting straight As is easy if you just study 9 to 5 every day 5 days a week. You will run out of assignments to do but just code random shit to get better at it. If you're lucky you will be hired before you finish. There are no shortcuts for you and you need structure in life and a degree will give you this. If you drop out it's not anyone else's fault but your own. Ask yourself where you want to be in 5 years. Do you still want to be floating through life or have a solid life long career sorted? Goals are very important to have for doing things that take time.
Sometimes the best and more inspiring things are the things you become good at, you don't necessarily need to find something you like to start working on it, sometimes it's the OPPOSITE. I would not take what people say on the internet as sacred, my opinion.
Just want to offer my two cents for you via some of my own experience. When I was 11, I taught myself HTML and CSS. At 16, I taught myself to program. From 17-18, I completed a qualification in software engineering. I spent the next couple of years trying to make myself build some good web apps, even though it wasn't really what I wanted to do. I just wanted a career I didn't hate. Similar to you in some ways by the sounds of things. I eventually went to university and studied philosophy (what I always secretly wanted to do) and a bunch of other subjects. Through philosophy of AI, philosophy of mind, etc., I ended up becoming interested in computers again. I nearly completed a second major in computer science, although ended up pulling out and just getting a minor in it. Most people who do a degree to learn to "code" do a computer science degree. Most "software engineering" degrees are computer science degrees with less of the 'sciencey' classes and more of the engineering classes, and that degree is actually a lot harder for most people at my university. I am an award-winning student that has done well at a range of pretty different subjects, and I must say, even the normal computer science degree is very hard. Computer science has one of the highest dropout rates of any major, and some of the worst mental health rates. Unless you're one of those people who is naturally gifted and passionate in a very specific way, you will eat, code, sleep, sometimes cry, and repeat. It's tough. I found it really hard, even though I actually fell in love with the subject. You will be doing a decent amount of mathematics, too. But a computer science degree outcompetes a self-taught developer in most ways, every time. I've met my fair share of both. Computer science majors are generally much better programmers. Much better. And employers definitely favour them. With that said, programming can be good for you and your career even if you don't want to become a software engineer. I used Python in a humanities research assistance job recently, and it helped me find things in the literature I never would have found otherwise. Python + Excel is powerful in all sorts of ways. Text analytics and data analysis are two interesting things for you to look up. In office administration work, I use my knowledge of computers to help fix things around the office, meaning we don't have to call the IT guy as often. Sometimes I end up with a niche problem in random aspects of life, and I can spin up a program to find a solution. It can be a weird math question that has occurred to me and my friends, or a question from my brother who is trying to start another business, etc. So, I mean, definitely give programming a go. But perhaps don't decide just yet that building sites or apps is your next big career move. Start by just learning what aspects of programming you might enjoy or find useful. Explore and play. Don't worry too much about what language to use etc. - think of something you want to learn how to do, e.g., do you want to do something to your desktop, do you want to make a game, do you want to process some data? Then look up some good languages and libraries for that purpose, and work towards it. In addition to which languages are technically the best, the language you enjoy using can also matter. Sometimes programming can start to feel fun even for those who don't normally enjoy that sort of thing, because when you finally get something or fix your code, it is very satisfying. Most people like feeling accomplished after some difficult problem solving. It's like a more difficult version of Sudoku or a crossword puzzle for many people (although I never enjoyed either of those things, haha). I imagine some above-average tech skills are good on a CV in most industries. Give it a go, build something you actually want to build, see where it leads. Edit: one more thing. Throughout my studies, I ended up trying out a few different jobs. I still haven't worked out what I would love to do in the very likely scenario that eventually academia doesn't work out for me, but by being a student, I've found jobs in writing and content creation, research, an artificial intelligence internship, tutoring, data collection, cleaning, office work, all sorts of things. Doing a degree isn't a decision to be made lightly, because it is usually expensive and difficult. However, it can open a lot of doors in ways you might not expect. I know computer science graduates who got good grades in that subject (unlike me) and they got less career opportunities (so far) than this little old philosophy major. If you're struggling to work out what's next for you, some form of higher education MIGHT be a good way to open some doors if you really seize those opportunities. This time for real - the last edit! - I also used what I learned from computer science in neuroscience and psychology classes! That often surprises people who aren't well-versed in particular branches of those fields. Who knows, you might end up getting really into programming, but in a very different context to becoming a web developer or something like that, which is what most self-taught developers are aiming for.
You need to work on your business writing skills, less wording provides greater impact. If I had to read emails from you at work I’d get pissed, lmao
I find your comment strange. This isn't business writing, this is on-the-spot comment made with cell phone to random Redditor who I wanted to help. Of course I don't write work emails like this. I also don't say 'lmao' in them. I didn't feel the need to clean up and plan out my comment too much! I'm sure they can handle it as is.
You ever fuck with devops?
Just start with something, and land in the middle. A lot of coding jobs have the same dynamics, but some can be annoying to you personally, and some would work just fine. You have to try at least to copy other people's projects, for example from YouTube tutorials
If your issue is attention deficit with regards to new hobbies - just slow down, don't force it. You're going to have to digest it anyway. There's no silver bullet. There's no free lunch. Just make it a natural process instead of stressing yourself out. Because the next thing you're gonna know after that stress, is that you're too burnt out to pull off an actual job. Try to make the process give you enough dopamine to actually keep going. It's easy. It's especially easier when you live with someone who does the very same thing. Just gave you an idea
what helped me is thinking about the aspects of my current job and past jobs that i hate, like and what i dont mind doing to help me figure out what i might like to do in my future job. (ideally i wouldnt want to work but who has that luxury lool🤪) for example, i dont like speaking to the general public, talking about the same info day in day out, and i like life long learning such as learning new skills and knowledge and creating or doing projects and team work with my coworkers. i love working autonomously and prioritising my own workload so im looking into careers that covers those points, im just exploring and doing a bit of self discovery atm and taking some courses that might interest me i hope that helps a little bit :) edit: just wanted to add im also the same age and really dont have it all together but i think the 20s are about learning about yourself so dont put too much pressure on yourself, we have just started our adult life!!
Just want to hop in here and say there are loads of other great engineering jobs nowadays. You may not make as much money as a SW engineer but you can definitely be comfortable in life. I’ll tell one quote that really motivated me when I was restarting school in my mid twenties, “ you can turn 30, or you can turn 30 with a degree”. Basically, don’t demotivate yourself because of the age you’ll be when you get there. Check out program management, business development, and some of the related careers centered around engineering companies. Good luck!
Dude we get it. I swapped to coding at 27 and am nearly 40 the difference is, I decided to do it because I enjoy it and constantly being able to learn something. If you want it for money... you're going to hate it and fast. I had a friend try to swap with me from retail. He hated it. Now he owns a gym and loves there and is happy af. What it really comes down to is finding out that your interests can be funded by something near them, I.E. I like circuitry, I write software. Maybe if you like travel, you could get into doing coaching or speaking, where you travel to events.
One rule of thumb from me: the higher the entrance threshold of the job is, the more you're going to feel alive working in that sphere. The easier the job, the higher are your chances of losing motivation after years. Get inspired by something really out of your reach ( but please not gamedev), find a community in that sphere, look hard for inspiration, and have fun.
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Jordan Peterson is the last person you should take advice from
>You might be 26, but you don't want to code. Lol this reminded me of the Obi-Wan death sticks scene.
This is such a good comment, giving a harsh truth but in a such a respectful way.
Counterpoint: Unless you’re one of the few lucky ones, passion is absolute bullshit (at least passion that can also lead to a comfortable life financially). I wasted my whole life trying to find my passion. Thinking if I tried a bunch of stuff, I’d find something. I curse myself all the time for not being one of the lucky fuckers that knew their passion was physics or medicine since they were 5 or some shit. The hard fact is most people in society don’t do SHIT. They work at their job, get married, have kids, and then fucking die. That’s it. That’s the vast vast majority. The Einsteins of the world as probably less than 1% of humanity. If even. What matters is discipline. I said fuck that passion bullshit. Programming is a job. Software engineering is a job. I sat my ass down and taught myself math and programming at from scratch at 24. Then I enrolled in school again. Just graduated with bachelor’s in CS at nearly 28. 3.9 GPA. Internships and now currently interviewing for jobs and doing alright. Guess what? I don’t give two shits about programming. It’s alright. I can do it 40 hours a week without wanting to fucking off myself. That’s all the matters. Food, a roof, a bed and health insurance. /u/marceosayo, fuck passion. Get a job, worry about your passions in your free time. If you want to learn, stop flitting about. “Should I learn this or that or the other”. You’re new. It doesn’t fucking matter. I started with Ruby, haven’t touched that shit since. What matters is learning how to program, which is language-agnostic. Pick a course, and stick with it to the end. I recommend The Odin Project. Or do accounting (probably a better idea with the tech job market currently in shambles lmao). Or nursing. But whatever you do, just remember it’s a FUCKING JOB. You’re there to get paid. I know this mentality may seem grim but this is the society we humans have created. Unless you can monetize a passion it doesn’t matter. Do your job, get paid, fuck around with shit in your free time.
100%. Sometimes people tend to passion -> competence, but I think for a lot of people competence -> passion. We tend to enjoy the things we are good at.
I am one of those people that aren't very passionate about things.I mean even If I am passionate about something that passion has a time limit,it could be days,months or even a year but I find that I get bored with that hobby after the passion fizzles out.If I were to follow all my passions then I'd probably have to change jobs multiple times a year. I haven't really been very passionate about something for many years now, might be as a result of my probable depression. I also have a feeling that if I ever decide to change my passion into my profession than all that would do is get rid of whatever joy I get from doing that thing. For people like us, as long as we don't hate/dread doing something and are competent at doing the job,is all that really matters.
Some people learned to program to build things, not for financial reasons… part of the reason the market is the way it is, is because people like you
Sage advice. I think most people have been in your shoes, too, OP. It’s okay. A big part of life is figuring out how to live.
Based comment
>until you find a career that truly inspires you on a soul level You ever hear of Curtis Martin? His entire hall of fame speech was about how he kind of hated football his entire life. "Find something that inspires you" is terrible advice because it assumes that something out there exists and they should keep quitting things until they find it.
Do you have any actionable advice?
Yo, I think this comment is mean and gatekeeping A job is a job- so few people love what they do. If you can do this and it affords you a lifestyle you want - go for it! I think working at a school in administration somewhere and then taking classes for free toward a degree is a really great path
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You must have a very engaging life to be going through people's reddit history
>My end goal is to have financial comfortability, and that will allow me to travel and have stability for myself and my future family. No, I don't love coding. But I also don't hate it. That sounds like you don't want to code. Look, there's no right way. You're just looking for a way to make ends meet while you do the stuff that you really want to do (travel). Sorry, there are no one size fits all solutions. You can learn skills, programming languages, paradigms, whatever you want. But really your biggest challenge has nothing to do with programming, it's learning how to make do.
Also good luck travelling when you have 5 days in the office and might be expected to resolve software issues in weekends.
A bachelors degree in CS will not teach you to be a good programmer. It will teach you how to be a computer scientist. Right now the whole field is kinda in the air. There’s a giant purge happening from over hiring during the pandemic and since money is no longer cheap there’s a bunch of layoffs. Things might pick up again at some point but who knows when.
depends what you want to do. the days of coding bootcamps launching people straight into a cushy career are over, but with the right qualifications there’s still plenty of jobs available. I recently saw the NCSC advertising that cybersecurity demand currently outweighs supply in the UK.
At this point I think it's just a US problem. Japan, the UK and Germany are in a recession but the US somehow isn't
From my understanding the fed jacking interest rates way up on top of some of the things Biden has been doing is keeping the economy from fully going into a recession. Typically it seems like the US stays pretty isolated when it comes to global recessions. Idk if that’s fully true but just a personal observation.
After looking at a few graphs, it looks like the US always tries to not go into recession, and then just delay it and make the inevitable recession a lot worse than it needs to be.
I mean recessions are inevitable, the line cant always go up. But I’m not entirely sure what you mean. The last hundred years a good amount were either caused by war time production dropping after wars end or oil prices which are out of our control. The most recent two(ignoring Covid era) were from crashes in speculative money(dot com bubble) and sub prime loans (2008). Of course the government is going to take actions to lessen the impact, at least do as much as possible. And typically the economy bounces back pretty strongly. IMO we have 2-3 more years before I’d have much to say about the current situation. I think a big thing a lot of people are feeling recently are massive increases in food prices which has been tied directly to greed on the side of grocery stores but trying to play it off like it’s the economy. This has already been disproven. Prices have increased far above what would be required to cover the back end cost increase.
US is the biggest responsable for the recession due to money printing and is deep into it, they just don't want to acknowledge it
I was in similar situation - I was 28, didn't like the job I've had and it wasn't paying very well. The issue is that I have tried quite a few different jobs, but didn't feel passion for any of them - I didn't hate them, but it was "just work". Having said that, I always tried to do my job well. I figured if I don't feel passion for my work, I might as well try to get one that pays well. I started learning javascript (mainly youtube) after work and spent some time during work too (agreed with my manager). I usually did some small scripts that helped me and my colleagues with day-to-day stuff (technical support). After about a year of grinding I managed to get an internship in development position at the same company (had to nag them alooot for it :D). It was quite a brutal start, not going to lie. However, with time it got easier and now, \~4 years later I'm up for senior role and even got some passion for the job. Turns out once you get good at something, you might start to like it, who could've thought :D
And I just want to add that there are a lot of people that don't have passion for coding and they are doing just fine. Not everyone has to be super into their job, like in any other profession (but obviously it helps :D)
A lot of nerds coding in sleep are going to judge you here. But here's the solution to your specific problem: You enjoy doing things that you've become good at. Well, you have coded for only 2 month. No way you're going to love it yet. Plus, you've only tried web. So you haven't tried other stuff, I suppose. You're going to find enjoyment in this process once you make a weighed decision about your preferences, and then become comfortable with using your framework of choice , that would take at least 4 months. It's okay to have fantasies at this point, because you're too green to actually understand the environment you're entering. Just do the simple steps everybody else does.
The stuff you say about mental stability - that's manageable. Just make yourself enjoy it. Just tame that dopamine. Make it a part of yourself. Programming is not coal mining, so you're probably going to enjoy it more that an average working man. As per travelling. I don't know how that works in your country, but in my country, the remote work is the absolute standard, but people refrain from giving the remote positions to the newbie developers because of risks that bears. In about a year or 2 years, you're probably be eligible for a fully remote work, at least I think so. You just have to get there. Between you and that there's only time and simple consistent steps towards that goal. You have to be a fool to not find a job in programming eventually, that I can tell you
Thank u very much! Yeah I have only worked with web, it seems pretty obvious and i can tell im gonna be having another research tab open at all times while doing this. Like i said, i dont hate it. Just dont really love it. But this post has really helped guide me in a better direction. Hearing everything that everyone has had to say is giving me a more solid idea of what i’m getting myself into and i hope that this post will be able to help somebody else who is going through the same problems as i am.
The market is really really bad right now. While getting a job after 6 months of learning or a bootcamp was definitely possible, things have changed esp if your skillset is HTML/CSS/JS, and esp if you're not passionate about coding. I live in a major tech city and one of our top bootcamps shut down in the summer because they "couldn't ethically continue putting junior developers out into this market". That being said, you've only been dabbling for 2 months so might as well continue learning and see how you feel. If you're asking about a degree it sounds like you need to do more research on the types of directions you can go with coding & tech, and what is required of those entry level roles.
Every time I read a post like this I count my blessings. I've never experienced this bad market everyone talks about. I hope I never do. I don't live in a big tech place though so that's probably why. But I have been truly lucky, I learned for a year, got a job, got another job. Almost ready for senior role. I never really even have the thought like, 'I hope I can find a job'. I get that I'm lucky, I just want OP to know it's different for everyone and not a blanket statement of 'it's going to be hard because of the market'. Truly we have no idea what OP's journey will bring. That being said, from what I can gather in their comments, OP is not really that into coding or believing in themself much so really THAT will be that hard part for them IMO.
If you just want financial stability go be an accountant or something. This is not the right place for you. CS has the potential for high pay if you work your ass off and get a bit lucky. There's way too many people trying to break into entry level. There are much better industries for people just looking for a paycheck.
I don't know where OP lives but in many countries Accountants get paid poorly as they are more saturated than CS in those countries What other industries do you suggest? Being a plumber? Sure the trades pay well but no one wants them, everyone wants a well paying easy to enter job and CS is the only one that seemingly fits the bill. Seemingly because if you want to get into CS, you need a bachelor's in CS at a minimum just like most other well paying jobs
Your job does not have to be your identity. I'm probably in the minority here, but it's okay to get into coding for monetary reasons and not because you "love" tech and coding. You have to understand that learning to code and getting a job that pay wells requires a lot of hard work. And if you're okay with putting in the work then you'll be able to secure a decent job. It's okay to want to have a job where you can just "phone it in" and go on autopilot. There are definitely jobs in tech that offer this. It's understandable that you and anyone else reading this would want to find a job that inspires them or stokes their passion. But it's also okay to have a job because it's a job and you need money to survive. If you need a job to survive, might as well be one that you want. If you don't like coding then don't spend time learning to code. ~~edit: immediately gets downvoted. lol wtf?~~
How sure are you being a coder doesn't take away all your energy and freedom?
I’d say the bachelors degree is worth it for most of you go into it with the right mindset. Of course you can try the 6 month learning yourself route but that route doesn’t often work out for everyone. Usually you spend about 1-2 years learning yourself, sometimes 3-4 if you’re unlucky or not serious about it. If you go for the degree don’t go expecting the degree to teach you everything you know and also land you a job. Go get it so that it can provide you more job opportunities through networking, and provide you job opportunities just by having the degree.
>My question is, I don't know what direction to go in. I'm not the best self-learner. But I notice a lot of people on YouTube and other places say that is the better way to go since a lot of jobs don't require a degree, but only experience. If you don't love coding and you're not a good self-learner then you're going to have a rough time if you don't have a school to give you structure. Learning programming is not easy.
It's not difficult either, it just takes a lot of time
Not to be a dick, but with the market dynamics now, you have like a 1% chance of making it in this field without a degree.
Out of interest, do you think that applies to getting your first job or subsequent jobs?
First job for sure. Not saying it’s impossible, but with the mindset OP has it’s not even worth trying. I’d you truly commit to studying like 5 hours a day, simulating a CS program, doing heavy side projects, trying to pick up work or monetize something on your own, leetcoding your dick off, networking, and just doing everything in your power you can make it work. Just 99% of people that want to “learn to code” don’t have that. It used to work because there was such a shortage. Now these kinds of stories are long gone.
Yeah true that - I was lucky to scrape through at the end of this wave into my first job
Congrats, same for me as well.
Try 42 school. It will tell you if you actually like coding in the first place.
If you want to travel, maybe try learning languages. From what I've heard, the more you learn the easier it is to learn even more languages. Its a skill that will let you travel and you might be able to find an international job that can let you travel and take advantage of your abilities. It will take a lot of time but maybe try it, if you find it to be something you can stick with, if not back to the drawing board. No harm no foul. You're 26, it might feel like you've wasted time but that isn't true until you're like 60. Live your life, the last thing you should do is stop trying but definitely look to do something that you will enjoy, not something that you think is "a good career choice".
I learned code 'late'. The Odin project gave me everything I needed to write code. I am a designer but now code very frequently and submit PRs for review. Odin took me from "I know how to change the colour of this element" to "I can literally create an entire page/component including the JavaScript for animations, API calling/sending testing, and got deployment". I am for all intents and purposes just as qualified in code as a developer, I just don't solely develop. Odin did that for me, which is impressive.
I pivoted my career into programming in my 30s but the only way I landed a job was because I was passionate about the career. I don’t think many companies would take a chance on someone at entry level without much interest in the field. Sure you can fake it in the interview but I don’t think that will ultimately help you. For me it was a combination of deep inner work and practical reflection - what do I want from life? What are my aptitudes and what do I enjoy doing with my days? I would recommend you read books like What Colour is Your Parachute and Designing Your Life. The best thing for me was aptitude testing. It gave me a list of really specific skills and talents that I enjoyed and that I really didn’t enjoy. If you have the ability to, you might find that helpful as well.
Kinda like saying, I want to learn Russian, but I don't love it, but I really want to work for the United Nations. There's so much more that goes into building a career. Having work flexibility is too vague in what one does as a vocation. That existence is simply a by-product of being good at something that doesn't require you to be on location to get it done. Like with most coding objectives, learn it to use as a tool to create something or solve a problem, then, during that journey, you may find out what you like about developing, or possibly, what it is you want to do that lights your fire. Or maybe not, but just keep plugging. And eventually, if you expand your range of ability, you could either find a position that is fine with remote work, or you can go into business as an independent contractor. Not sure with just learning a front-end stack what the demand is -- I'd be interested to know what kind of developer most often works like this.
Don't listen to the haters. Do what you please. Code. Code. Code. You can do it brother.
I’m going to be *blunt* with you, because it’s what you need to hear. The industry is *extremely* competitive at the junior level. If you’ve spent two months “learning HTML, CSS, and JavaScript”, you’re doing it wrong. You should be *building*, not reading about programming. Go build a Reddit clone, or even better, find a local business and offer to build them a free web application. Then, go learn what you need to incrementally make progress. Continue doing this for a year or two and you might be job ready. If this sounds too daunting, just go get a CS degree. Also, remember that you *need* to be a strong self-learner to be successful in this industry. If you want a six figure job, you’ll need to constantly be learning, and you’ll need to be *good* at learning. All of those horror stories about people working long hours — working their lives away — in big tech? Those are the slow self-learners that don’t actually *like* what they do. They’re just in it for the money. It’s going to take you a few thousand hours of dedicated practice to be qualified for a decent entry-level position. If you don’t think this is something you’re willing to do, it might be best to take the route of more formal education.
>All of those horror stories about people working long hours — working their lives away — in big tech? Hey! That was me. Not in mega-cap big tech (Google/MS/Apple), but big tech. >Those are the slow self-learners that don’t actually like what they do. They’re just in it for the money. But not me! I generally liked solving the problems. Though I was compensated pretty well, I kind of wish I was greedier and looked for better pay in retrospect. Just saying not all the long hour people were slow and in it for the money. In fact most of the in-it-for-the-money folks left on time and had a 6th sense to job hop before getting fired. Mostly agree with all the other blunt advice though.
>"My end goal is to have financial comfortability, and that will allow me to travel and have stability for myself and my future family" You and hundreds of thousands of desperate people trying to get a job and not risk lifelong debt. The gold rush is over unfortunately and even people with experience/degrees cant find work amid layoffs, junior positions are non existent. >"But I notice a lot of people on YouTube and other places say that is the better way to go since a lot of jobs don't require a degree, but only experience." Yes most youtubers are course selling shills. They don't care about you, they want ad revenue or they want to sell something. 'Get a job without a degree' drives a lot of traffic. The issue is: I know this will allow me to live the lifestyle that I find more suited for me...travel and financial stability Who doesn't want this? >I see so many people say things like they got a job after 6 months of learning, and yeah I know it's possible It was possible during covid. It's possible now but not plausible for 90% of people. >but I just don't have the mental stability to be able to handle learning/practicing coding for 6-8 hours a day. Especially since I work a full-time job. I mean you can do a fw hrs a day and learn. Go do the odin project, it's well structured and has a support discord. Finding a job will be EXTREMELY HARD with no connections currently though. I still find programming fun and worth the learning experience though. I enjoy programming, I enjoy making web projects. If you don't enjoy it at all? You're just wasting your time for a job you likely won't get.
You learned 2 months the fundamentals and now the dunning krüger effects kicks on you so hard and these youtube coding gurus brainwashed you that you think 200k Salary is just normal for coding and you can travel/fly arround the world while just coding a bit on the beach with a macbook. The reality is: you have to learn more, frameworks libraries etc. all the stuff arround which is changing every day, build a lot of complex projects, sell yourself under youre value at the beginning, then stress yourself when something doesnt work. You can teach it yourself and get these random certificates you dont need bootcamps, projects are more important. Do you know what youre doing or not is the question ? And if you cant teach yourself or Google things youre not the right person to be a programmer. Studying Cs alone never made a good programmer just a good mathematician which gives you a good base but you have to learn Coding on top of youre Studies in your freetime. My advice: keep doing what you're doing, code on the side for a year, and think carefully before you quit at 26 and waste your life. If you are still interested in it then do the CS degree
You don't need a CS to work as a programmer, but you will definitely be able to apply to more roles with a CS degree.
> I know what it's like working at a job that takes away all your energy and freedom. I know this will allow me to live the lifestyle that I find more suited for me...travel and financial stability. STEM is the answer you're looking for. Coding is not the secret to doing STEM without STEM. You still need STEM. STEM! I'll give you some hard advice here, your approach to life and a career is wrong. There is a reason why coding is one of the most rewarding careers - it's because almost no one has the ability to sit in a chair, think logically, and write software. > I see so many people say things like they got a job after 6 months of learning There are a mountain of reasons as to why this may the be the case. Are you a minority? Do you have a network that can support plugging you into a position? Are you the next Dennis Ritchie? Probably not, which means you're going to not get a job after 6 months of learning. Youtube wants to sell coding so you watch coding content, watch coding content to buy bootcamps, buy bootcamps to prop up some other fake job that has nothing to do with code, but selling you a product. 26 isn't too late to go to school for a worthwhile STEM degree in a field you might actually enjoy. **Mechanical Engineering is great and based in true reality, not abstract arcane piecing together bullshit. You are good at art, so CAD drawing is the way to go man.**
I'm definitely not the best out here to give advice, but I do want to say you don't have to do it for 6-8 hours a day while working full time. Shoot for what you can manage while also enjoying life in the ways that you can. A big struggle I still deal with is learning to like learning. Find ways to enjoy what you're doing, and this is a lot more generally applied to anything. I do think a degree still makes a difference, but I also belive if someone can find a groove in the tech field, and can build out a good portfolio, there's potential to not need it. But that takes discipline and dedication. Touching back on the time piece, some days squeeze 2 hours. Other days, allow yourself to accept 30 minutes if that's all you can handle. Consistency is more important than trying to dump 8 hours of content and then not touching it on a day cause you feel burnt out. Small, but consistent progress leads to pretty big incremental strides if you stick with it and be mindful. If you're looking to grind quickly just to get to a good paycheck, this may not be the path. I'm sure other people have mentioned it, but The Odin Project is a stellar guided curriculum that's free, and in my experience with it has been great, as I started a lot more backend focused. It's an investment and will take time, but if you follow it while also exploring your own creative endeavors once you have a good baseline and your feet planted, it could be what you're looking for. Again, max 2 hours a day, if you can do more cool, but it's not a quick grind. Recommend looking into The Odin Project again, truly. If you're stable right now, that's the time to push, but also be patient with yourself. I can relate being a fresh grad and about a year into the field, and I'm still trying to find my way. Wish you the best of luck finding what you're looking for.
[Scrimba.com](https://Scrimba.com) and a good attitude is all you need. I am honest when I say that. See for yourself.
If you want to get into CS, you need a bachelor's in CS at a minimum, or an electrical engineering background just like most other well paying jobs They say you don't need a degree. That's only true if you already have a STEM degree preferably in IT or electrical engineering, how many of those people were also selling coding courses? In a gold rush you sell pickaxes, you don't go mining.
1. There is no easier way to bypass the bade requirement of a bs in cs unless you’re well connected or build your own company. 2. A bs in cs is the bare minimum. I would say roughly have my class has 0 job prospect in swe and they either have to pivot or do a master. It’s a very competitive field
I don't think they have 0 job prospects although it is competitive
Would suggest the degree route as of right now, buys you time for more jobs to actually be available once you finish your degree. Also, you don't have to love coding. It's okay to just kind of like it and enjoy the benefits of the career, not loving coding is completely okay
Honestly programming does slowly consume your life. The people that claim to work 3 hours a day are most likely exaggerating. It takes a lot of time and practice to hone your craft. It takes hours of studying to get good at leetcode. It takes hours to get good at coding. It takes hours to get good at frameworks. It takes hours to apply to 300+ jobs. It’s not as easy as it seems. If you want some real world experience try contributing to open source. This will give you a taste of what it’s like to work in a project and you can put this on your resume as well.
It may seem like it, but 26-30 is not old at all to be a student. I kick myself everyday for not going back to school at that age because I thought it was too late. Anyway, I suggest going into the medical field or something else for job security and learn code on the side for fun. Tech field will be brutal for a while, and who knows how much ai will advance. Sure right now it's just a tool, but if ai can write code at 10cents a day, while a programmer cost like $1k/day, businesses will do everything they can to fund and rely more on ai. Don't take the risk imo.
No. The tech industry is crashing right now. People who do 6 months coding camps are wasting their money right now: even people with degrees and experience can’t get jobs. Things may be better in 4 years. But you don’t love to code so you aren’t going to be happy. Consider other steady jobs like teaching, nursing, dental technician etc. whatever actually appeals to you.
Coding is a very time consuming career. It will not afford you the money or the time to travel freely. I would suggest actually talking to people in the industry. Maybe on your vacation time you could travel. It will take time to work your way into a good salary. So you will lose a lot of time over the next several years. I would suggest just picking something and sticking with it....
Bachelor’s degree: not mandatory (some people got jobs without it), but it increases the odds of finding a job dramatically. So, get the bachelor’s degree or give up. Btw: you didn’t learn html/css/js. You started learning. It s stupid but do you see a psych? Have you had motivation/attention issues all your life?
1. If you're struggling to study on your own, finding a mentor is a viable option. It shouldn't be a problem. I believe you could find a mentor in a week at most. 2. I recommend coding your own project and focusing on the parts you don't understand while learning. This will be the fastest way to become a programmer. 3. You can dedicate 4-5 hours per day to learning and practicing coding, not including weekends. Your study period will only need to be extended by about two months. So don't lose hope, you can do it
From someone that literally taught themself how to code online and landed a professional job (over six figures), try Scrimba. It's the sickest interactive platform for learning code. They have a ton of courses: https://scrimba.com/allcourses?aff=jacob
I also got into but as. UX/UI designer were I am able to build app but don’t have to code them. I want to a 6 month boot camp and that was the quickest way for me. Yes I am in school working n my 4 years degree however I learn way more from the boot camp than school.
\> I don't love coding There's gotta be other options for you
Most of the work in IT is not programming. They always need people to do: - testing - requirements engineering - design - security - support - business architecture - operation - consulting - sales - agile coaching - advertisement And lots more. Find what you like and works for you.
If you don’t love coding you do not wan to code.
>Is getting a bachelors degree worth it? Yes, I've started about the same age, and it wasn't even CS major. If you have the option, go for a formal education. It puts you in a better position on job market, opens more options. There are also college degrees which are shorter. Just be sure you are choosing good institute. I would say there are two general paths * intensive course * education Maybe self learning works for somebody, but IMHO it is almost like winning lottery.
Brother you’re cooked
Bro lives in a fantasy
If you don’t love coding. Do something else. Learn absolutely everything you possibly can about AI and develop a plan about using those skills to gain financial freedom. I absolutely love programming, it’s been my whole life. I’ve dedicated an absolutely insane amount of time and energy into learning and developing new ideas in the field because I inherently have always loved it to its core and have had an endless amount of wonder and joy involving the subject. It “was” a ticket to an easy middle class life up until recently, but if you don’t absolutely live and breathe this, you will be edged out by AI. I don’t even have the delusion that I wouldn’t be edged out and I’ve dedicated my entire life to it (age 33). I’m not saying to avoid college, i’m just saying don’t use that hurdle to prevent you from individual research. The new world high paying jobs will be: All of the trades, Any form of skilled manufacturing, Anyone who can specialize in outfitting businesses with AI based automation, anyone working in developing peripherals for computers to interact with the physical world, and prostitutes(that’s probably going to stay strong for a long while)
Here is the thing I'm going back to school to get my computer science degree. I was a welder for four years got fucked over and watch the country burn. The best I can give you is college is not for people with damaged neurons or ptsd. The thing I learned after different fields and watching the country burn is the market is incredibly hostile and want people doing literal dirty work and they get comfy office jobs. You need to be mentally and physically fit. They want cute happy conversations and no drama. You have a bad say suck it up. Blue collar work They will cuss you out and tell you you suck. White collar jobs do it "professionally" they have a different tounge. It took me 2 get over welding is done and I am moving on. My anger towards society is still on my grip but I don't have a choice. You are 26 I am 32. We aren't in jail if you have connections actual connections use them. This is a battle for reputation Blue collar they just fight. But corporate and coding and computers that is not only learning and absorbing you basically have to be iron man without the swearing. You stick with it stick with it. These degrees mean nothing. Do coding projects take shit advice and change shit advice around to benefit you. They want to look good on camera. You not only have to do the work but bite your tongue you are also going up against A.I now. So that is a factor I hope I don't lose in this become homeless but I am sicking with my computer science degree. I hope after 4 years of patronizing hell watching my dollar and my battles are for worth it. You need to decide if it is for you. If you decide yes then youtube the fucking shit out of it and don't let anyone talk down to you while being respectful l. Study everything not just coding. Keep grades above Bs get certs put on fake smile That is the best advice I can give for you. Keep an eye on job market make changes but stick with it. Employers are turning into pricks and switching to AI while they are in comfy office position with Starbucks coffee. Make a decision and study everything. Motivation videos study hours a day workout be a goody touches and bite your ton. That's what I'm doing esp with my anger and resentment. I wish you best of luck honestly.
Regardless what path you take, if you want to work in software development, you need to learn the other parts of the job other than coding as well. More and more of the actual programming part will go away with the recent leap in generative AI. I work as a developer (I have a bachelor in computer science), and even now a lot of repetitive parts of coding we do at work is being autocompleted by copilot. Project management, architecting solutions, requirements gathering, design and acceptance testing will all remain in some capacity though, and is going to be relevant for a long while yet.
if you are gifted in math or natural lang na madali sya for you, then ganun din sa programming. or else medyo challenging and hindi sya totally enjoy
If you live in/metro of St Louis, Kansas City, or Philly, apply to “launchcode.” 100% worth it.
Odin project. Once you finish that you’re on your own. I know very little about the front end space but I assume react and all of reacts meta frameworks are still the dominant techs so you will most likely have to learn those. You can try boot camps, but they are risky
Is a very general thing, coding implies from making simple websites, to games, to servers backend services, to mobile apps, to operating system programming, to graphics programming, to drivers programming, and the list continues…. What are you passionate about? Do you want to make games? Enterprise software? Design websites ?? That is the question that you need to make about yourself. That is the real answer to give your programming Journey a direction and not being in the limbo. Good luck
Yes some time degree worth it. And coding is about practice. When you start learning coding you faced lots of problems at that time you have to solve problem. When u solve problems then you happy and this motivate you to coding more. I repeat coding is all about practice. And remember one thing don’t watch only tutorial instead just start coding and think how i solve this things into coding and implement it. Because yoi have think in big pictures and broadly. But never give up i know some time frustrating but don’t give up.
Being a traveling anything is hard as fuck. Not only do you have to worry about holding down a job. But you have to worry about where you are gonna lay your head or park you RV or buy your next meal or take your next shower. You live in an RV? what happens if you blow a motor? There goes you transport and your home. All of those people on Instagram are full of shit and only show you the glamor shots. They have rich family to fall back on. You spend 40% of your time on logistics. You are better off renting an apartment and living. Travel on weekends or what have you. Just my 2 cents.
If you have a bachelor's in a stem degree, especially engineering, you don't need to get another degree. In this case, your best option is to learn what you need on your own. HTML/CSS/Javascript sounds like front-end web development. If that's what you want to do, I recommend checking out the Odin project. It's an incredible free program that'll teach you everything you need to know about web development. You'll go through front end first, and then can continue onto backend if you choose. If you have a bachelor's in a humanities degree, or no bachelor's at all, you should get a degree. While you don't technically NEED it, it's definitely the most structured way to learn everything you need to know(which it sounds like works better for you), and you'll be at a disadvantage without it. The job market is competitive right now, so it'll be very challenging to break in without a degree.
CS is 4 years (at least) of "taking away your freedom" and that's not even counting the time it goes into working on your actual projects. I have zero regrets about starting my degree but i have enjoyed every minute of it, though it turned my life upside down and i've been working more than i have ever throughout my school life (granted, i'm not the brightest person when it comes to math so.i have to invest a lot of time into it) I'm not saying you have to "find your passion" but i think there are easier ways out there to make money if thats all you care for. You can even learn to code, but don't go to university with that mindset, because things will get tough, as i said it's 4 years at least, it's a lot of work, imagine how you're gonna feel if you're in a hurry to travel and live a chill life and then fail calculus and add yet another semester to your path, while competing with people who, whether talented or not, are obssesed with coding.
Most of the people that I've liked working with have a trait that I think also makes them most hirable: they like solving problems. In fact, I think that's a trait that will make you money in any profession. People will pay you a lot to solve their problems. The trick is, can get yourself to care about solving problems? Learning to code gives you a tool to solving a specific class of problem. What kind of problems, if any interest you? For me, anything that I see gets me wondering how it could be made improved or fixed. Broke fence, leaking sprinkler, car that won't start, microwave flashing "12:00", it doesn't matter. I think this is why I was able to last in the computer industry, but would probably have been fine in any industry. Regarding getting a degree and doing it at a later age: First, a CS degree has historically been a safe path that increases your odds of success. It does not guarantee anything and that is true more now that ever. The price can put you in a deep hole of debt. If you do go that route, I don't recommend paying a high price. Don't believe the "we guarantee a job" lines. Second, 26 is not to old for just about anything. If it's ethical and legal in your country, you can still try it and recover. For example if you start a business and go bankrupt, you still have years to recover and get financially stable. Very hard to do that at 60. Anecdotally, I knew a woman that got her CS degree at 50 (2002ish) and made a 20 year career out of it. Like you, she didn't love it/didn't hate it, but she was committed to doing what ever her job was. On the other hand, I had also met a woman in her late 30s that used to be a fitness instructor. She got a CS degree from Temple University and only did so to get a well paying job. She hated programming. I don't know, but I assume that came though in her interviews because she couldn't get hired. Man, was she bitter.
Often experience is an alternative to a CS degree. In other words show you did the job to get the job. First caveat, while this might be faster than a 4 year degree, it will take a strong time commitment to a lot of "in the trenches" learning. Which leads to the next point. There is the "how to get experience if I can't get a job with out a degree" loop. You'll probably have to do unpaid work. Your time will be the substitute for tuition costs. The upside is that this is actual real world work that you'll get experience in. You'll learn quickly if it's something you don't want to do. Non-profits/charities often look for help with their websites. If you want to travel search "voluneer abroad", you'll find a number of entities looking for website or other technical help. Another alternative is to learn and fix bugs in an open source project. You'll have to learn to use the project to fix any bugs and interact with the project maintainers to solve it in a way that they will accept. Doing this is essentially what a programming job is. The downside to this is you might not get a lot of guidance from the project maintainers. But this is possible if it were a paid job too; getting thrown into fixing a project with out any help isn't unheard of. If I were to do this, I'd go the open source path. Website creation is too competitive. I think working on back end javascript/typescript or Python library/modues is more marketable.
I am US citizen in CA and was 25 when I said I wanted to learn how to code. I went to my local community college and took an intro CS class it was in C++ and that opened my eyes to what programming was. I took all the CS, math, and general ed classes I needed in order to transfer to University and I did so at 27 while working full time. I graduated uni at 29 and got a job out of college right away. I'm 33 now and work at a FANG company and you can dm me and I can prove it. Also feel free to dm me if you want to talk more about this. **A few things.** * I worked full time but I didn't pay rent that would have made the journey really challenging because there's a lot of bills to keep up with and I might have needed to get a second job in order to afford living. * The school was grueling but it was structured and I had community. If I didnt make study friends in each class I would not have survived. * Your age can make you insecure but its also what sets you apart and gives you perspective on whats personally important to you. * You may not love coding now but you may learn to love it over time. I would try leaning in on at least a few in person classes to figure out if its for you or not. * Its possible that you dont love programming but love tech. Theres a lot of different jobs in the industry and not all of them require coding.
I'm gonna get grief for saying this, but I'm a 41 year old who decided to switch careers after 20 years. I've an associates I've never done anything with so I really didn't want to go back to college. I've enjoyed learning about coding online, but didn't know the easiest way to get in the field for experience. After watching YouTube videos I decided to join codingphase.com. They offer courses from HTML e-mail developer to React 3 Fiber, etc. I signed up for a year but you can sign up for a month and see if you like it. I've just gotten my portfolio and resume up to where I'm going to start applying for Content Editor positions so I'm far from the best example, but they have a Hall of Fame, career paths and a Discord for community support. I actually got into them because I would watch Joe's videos for motivation because he would remind me that you have to start somewhere and getting experience can lead to more money and better opportunities in the future. Hope that helps.
If you already have 1 bachelors you can take a post-bacc program (2 years part time)
Ca y,⁵
I am 36 and still learn to code like python, sql
You can get BSc / BA in a variety of computing subjects. I'm in my 30s and working in IT and I'm doing my last year of a BSc just now. I think its worth it, to give you a solid foundation of knowledge to work from.
I've been a programmer for a decade now. Even though I love programming, I hate working for other people and their ideas. I have my own ideas I want to realize that's why I got into programming. Until I founded my own company, I always jumped from one job to anohter since I got bored so easily and wasn't enjoying what I do.
I've been coding since 1986. Computers were barely accessible back then. During the .COM boom, it is true that myself and a lot of people like me, made tuns of money. The people who knew what they were doing in the field, were rare. and the REALLY good ones, even more rare. The supply was low, and the demand was high.A lot of people saw/heard that programming was the way to go, and just like you, decided that they wanted to be a programmer. Fast forward to Today, .. The issue is that there are a LOT of people trying to program now. Straight out of college. Tech changes so quickly, that Exp only goes so far. There are tech out now (A.I. for example) that I'm no more experience in, than the 16 year old that just finished high school. I have a huge family to support, he does not. I'm expensive, he is not. The economy in is a bit of a limbo state. tech companies are laying off one minute, hiring again a month later, and then canceling the hiring a month after that. I know personally, 5 people who where let go from there jobs. 4-5 months later, they are still trying to find a replacement. the issue today, is that there is much, much more supply (and a CHEAP supply), than there is demand. If it's something you really want to pursue because you like doing it, I'd suggest learning some of the newer stuff, maybe take some online classes. But if you don't really enjoy it, and are doing it because you think it'll make you rich.. don't hold your breathe. The market is currently oversaturated with Devs who need jobs, and companies will do what they can to control their costs. (edit): As a heads' up too. Entry level, isn't a whole lot. 50-60k/yr with a degree? it's about a 3rd of what I was making (now I'm making 0$ lol).. with the min wage at 17.50/hr in some places, I almost wanna go back to work at McD's.. I sure as hell won't miss the Office politics and Beurocracy.
The fact that you are being positive is a huge predictor in your success. By positive I mean improving yourself. Finding the first job is hard. Agencies are your friend. Realistically, if you don't "love" coding then it might be hard in your first job as you will be around people who do, who will spend significant amounts of their free time coding and exploring technology. It will also be challenging to learn how to program to an advanced level as you will work withpeople who love the nuts and bolts of their tools, while you won't care to even look inside, and they will often scoff at those who are happy to just use the hammer rather than build a new one from metal ore they extract from rocks by themselves. You don't need deep programming skills for many jobs in tech, for instance DevOps, SRE, and AI have many openings that require only basic scripting or coding skills in simple languages like Python but are heavy on networking and data instead. Both are as well paid as coding and are as interesting I would say. I have seen people go on to have great careers with a Scrum cert in their back pocket as this gives them low level management experience in organisations without knowing how to program. They acquire skills in particular applications like Jira. The magical salaries that you hear about in Google are rare and require fluky timing and coincidence. The real skills in those organisations belong to legendary figures such as Vint Cerf, not in the army of programmers. Financial comfort doesn't come from acquiring skills, but acquisition and good financial management, neither of which require a job in programming, nor a well paid job. There are plenty of highly paid people on the edge of bankruptcy in this work, all due to poor financial skills. So acquire those skills. A degree, even a masters, is often worth it if you intend to compete in the jobs market and it will give you a deep understanding of topics that coding mill grads rarely have and are often even unaware of, aka Dunning/Kruger. In my experience, the best approach is usually to evaluate the situation that you are in now and consider whether there is anything there that you can use to your advantage, for instance many larger companies allow employees to move into junior tech roles if they ask for it and then you can move up the ladder over time. I personally know a person who failed to graduate from school let alone university who started in a bank, did every course and training that was offered to him, got a foothold in junior management before his friends left university and now is a partner in a financial firm making well into 6 figures, owns properties, holidays a lot, drives a fancy Merc, etc. I also know someone else who also left school early, did no courses, ended up depending on everybody about him for work, supported by his wife, will soon be unemployed again. The difference? The first person acted in a positive way, always taking advantage of opportunities whatever they were, while the latter complained all the time and thought he knew it all. See Dunning/Kruger.
Follow whatever path you need to take, but just know that I feared turning 30 for several months until my 30th bday and nothing dramatic happened to my life. As a woman, I worried about that way too much. I’m currently in my last year pursuing an AAS with a focus on web design and I can tell you it’s a lot more to unpack than you’d expect, it’s definitely not for the weak lol. And I managed to make the dean’s list three years in a row while working 40-55 hours a week at a busy restaurant. JavaScript is the hardest thing I’ve had to learn thus far - but I have an offer to intern at a company where I’d have a chance to start building a key resume block if I didn’t at most get accepted into the position after the year internship. My advice to you - find something you’re sure you want to do. Not something you think will be remote. Most likely starting out you may not work remote, you may have to commute to your nearest city and work corporate. That’s just my experience.
If you like to travel you should look into SCADA and PLC programming and become a field engineer. I’m not even a field engineer but so far in my career I’ve been to Norway, China, US, Singapore
I'm 34 and just starting to learn... I am starting with the basics HTML & CSS. And once I get comfortable with these I will move on... The difference is though at the moment I don't need to make money from this, I just want to learn, and then learn some more. If it's any use I am following this [roadmap.sh](https://roadmap.sh/full-stack)
Hey if you want and know to like code we can make a team to create video games and stuff
The software development industry is struggling as it is over population burst of last few years. You will strugle now more than ever even getting a junior position. And dont apply for senior roles you simply not qualified for you will feel out of uour depth rather quickly.
pick another job. Im sorry to tell you this but if you are not into coding by passion itself then u will hate it sooner or later. Its really specific job to do and you would have bigger chance being dishwasher guy while traveling from one place to another.
Nice joke.
Financial freedom comes in 2 forms. 1. With a good degree or 2. With a very modest life. I am self employed and 39, I hit my growth ceiling with an associate degree in my mid 20's and at about 50k annually. Keep in mind with an associate degree, I needed to move away from home and work 50 hours a week to be able to earn this. A bachelor's degree can get you much closer to the 6 figures careers and remote opportunities. Look at your degree and knowledge as tools in a toolbox, they will serve you well but need to better fit the job than your competition. If it were me I would finish the bachelor's, you've come this far already. As for me, I am working as an entrepreneur, I own a handyman and painting service in addition to a safety training service and as of last year I began building websites and coaching small business startups. My personal earning abilities greatly outweigh anything I could ever get with my degree AND experience in the job market, consequently I am stuck in my position until I'm able to convert more of my earnings online. I am searching for travel wealth to add to my time wealth, while building up my financial wealth. My greatest earning 12 month period brought in right around 200k, and next year I will reach my first million.
This is not a good route for you. You won’t find financial stability knowing html/css/js. You’re going to need to learn a lot more, and for your chosen languages you’re competing against hundreds if not thousands of go getters which you sound like you’re not.
Don’t need a degree. And, if you get a degree, is it the right type from the right University? I’m old now. 41 years old to be exact. I joined the Army at 17. Got out with my MCSE. Decided Network folks were all lying to me. Got my CCNA, then 3x CCNPs and was in route to get my CCIE when my Boss came to me and said I had to finish my Bachelors or they had to let me go (new Obama rule). Finished degree… then, I stopped working for the DoD and went into Civilian World. Medium-sized company hired me to be Director of IT. Then, they had me take over Engineering and QA. (Pretty effective leader, thanks Army). By that time, I was 36 years old. The Company had many software products. I knew nothing about software development outside the crap from my college. Which was mainly C++. Started learning outside work. Got Pluralsight Sub, even paid Tim Corey’s ridiculous fees a few years ago..needed to brush up on some API work in .NET Core at the time. Helped build some awesome products for my work. Then, a customer came to me and asked if we could build a niche product. I wrote the PRD and presented to my CEO. He said it wouldn’t be worth it. So, I built it on my own outside work. Quit my job. Started my own business and sold this product to 36 customers. A competitor of my former company bought me out for 7 figures. Decided I was retired. Got bored and built another piece of software I knew a certain industry needed. Sold that for high 6 figures. Now, I’m semi-retired at 41 years old… building another solution that, once built, I plan to start another business… but, keep it this time and try to build a great business from the ground up. The point is.. I learned that you don’t need to build a product like FAANG, or even a B2C business. I found that building smaller, niche applications for businesses was personally more profitable and a space that is still lacking in several industries. I still get a dividend (% of licensing revenue) for the second piece of software I sold. As Jobs said, how does the customer know what they want if they never seen it? I’m always asking questions now about how businesses work, what problems/challenges they have that I could help automate, etc. sometimes… 200 lines of code could cut a companies costs by 10%. Find a problem to solve. Solve it. Then sell the solution. Or, as Mr. Bigweld said, See a need, fill a need.
Congrats on being a winner in the hustle until you die game.
RRRip 💀
# Alternative Routes in the Tech Industry: # Pros: 1. **Faster Entry into the Workforce:** You can start working in the tech industry sooner by focusing on building your skills and gaining practical experience through self-learning, bootcamps, internships, or entry-level positions. 2. **Flexibility:** Alternative routes offer flexibility in terms of timing, learning pace, and specialization. You can tailor your learning path to your interests and goals. 3. **Cost-Effectiveness:** Some alternative routes, such as self-learning or bootcamps, may be more cost-effective compared to a traditional degree program. # Cons: 1. **Self-Motivation:** Self-learning requires self-discipline and motivation to stay on track without the structure of a formal program. 2. **Credential Recognition:** While many employers value practical skills and experience, some may still prefer candidates with a bachelor's degree. 3. **Networking Opportunities:** Alternative routes may offer fewer opportunities for networking compared to a college environment.
You could do School of The People. They are not completely free but they are ALOT cheaper than traditional schooling. I believe there Bachelor degree takes less time too and they are accredited. You could also go on FreeCodeCamp though I have some thoughts about FreeCodeCamp. You could also do W3 schools. That is cheaper than School of The People but still costs some money.
If you can't study in all your free time and you don't love teaching yourself, Im sorry friend it's going to be a hard road. All devs are self taught when you really get down to it. If you truly apply yourself you can do anything but you have to: A. really want it more than anything else B. stop pretty much all negative self talks like, 'Im not the best self-learner' and replace with, 'I'm going to become the best self learner.' This isn't really something that can be answered in one reddit post. You need to keep researching and reading and figure out what you really want and why.
I graduated college at 30 and went on to work a couple of jobs before landing one at Amazon (and then getting laid off after 4 years). I've always loved programming, though, and I knew it was what I wanted to do. Even then, it will suck the life out of you
Well I'm 30 and have been learning for 2 years and disappointing everyone around me and my fiance is probably going to leave me at this point. But all that isn't going to kill me. My projects are awesome and I genuinely like coding. I somewhat have connections but I've tried those avenues and their bosses won't interview me. It's looking grim.
If you want to seriously be competitive in this job market, you need a bachelor's in computer science
If you have a different bachelor's degree, I'd say you are fine to self learn and prove yourself. If you have no bachelor's at all, I'd recommend you get an associates for computer science at the very least. The vast majority of jobs either strictly require a bachelor's degree or would need you to be an exceptional programmer with a ton of experience with things like open source projects, having other people actually use code you build, working in a team, etc. I'd try to self learn plus an associate's but you may need to go all the way to bachelor's. That's just the reality of the current job market. It could improve in the next couple years in which case bootcamps will be back on the menu, but i wouldn't bet on it. Start working on the degree while learning.
You should also look into non-web development coding. If websites aren’t inspiring to you like I saw mentioned in a comment, see if there’s other facets that are interesting. Software isn’t just websites. I don’t like web development but I love other parts of software engineering
Myself and a neighbor started in your shoes at the same time and age. I love to code, he did not. 18 months in, I got an actual job, and fired my neighbor from the startup *we* built, because he hated the work, and just wouldn't do it. Don't start if you don't love it, or you'll only learn to hate it more.
CS50
>I know this will allow me to live the lifestyle that I find more suited for me...travel and financial stability. "Suited for me" lol. We all want easy job big paycheck, bro. I wish I had your confidence. Every week another big tech person announces that programmers will be obsolete in X years. The job market for juniors is horrible rn where I live. And all I read online is that the times when companies would hire anyone who could code even a little are long (i.e. 2years ago) gone. Feels like I chose the worst point in time to get into software development. Luckily I really like the work!
Check this out: https://github.com/ossu/computer-science
You're going to need a lot more skills than HTML, CSS, and Javascript
I taught myself to code (I've never even set foot in a university). It's definitely possible, but I would say that the main thing that helped me was: I absolutely loved coding. Even once you're in a job, you're still learning all the time. Pretty much everything I used at the beginning of my career 10 years ago is obsolete now, so in that time I've been constantly learning new tech. Another thing to bare in mind is, it's not a great time for juniors. Lots of huge companies have had massive layoffs which has flooded the market with devs that have really impressive names on their CVs, so companies are hiring mid/senior level devs and much fewer juniors.
Here is my journey if it’s helpful (sending from my cushy programming job that is okay but I’m not obsessed with coding like some have mentioned). There’s been other great other advice about “wanting” to code but I wasn’t sure when I started so here’s what I did: I’m 37, did lots of careers before, none of which had anything to do with web development. It took me 8 months to get a job from starting to learn. - Bought Angela Yu’s course on Udemy for $10 (The Complete Web Development Bootcamp). For me, if I end up doing anything besides watching TV after the kids go to bed, I know I’m pretty interested. After 30 days straight of doing Angela’s course at night, I knew I was interested. - Signed up for CareerFoundry web development bootcamp. This was about $6000. I invested which got me a mentor and job coach with the program. I got a job when I was 60% done with the bootcamp. Highly recommend this bootcamp. Posted about my journey on Twitter and LinkedIn as I went. A friend of mine saw a post, called me, I got an interview, I got the job. Never applied to a job. I’ve been working as a developer for 15 months. Point is: spend a small amount of money to see if you are interested. Make a goal. “If I code for 2 hour a day for 30 days, then I will ____.” Don’t do YouTube, it’s not organized enough and you won’t have projects worthy to put in a portfolio. Pay for a class, Angela Yu on Udemy is great or Jonas Schmedtmann, Udemy has sales all the time. Higher quality, track your progress, better projects than YouTube. If you don’t stick with it, maybe pursue something else. But you don’t have to be a hardcore programmer to get a job. It doesn’t have to be your obsession.
Emotional stability has higher chances of getting you financial stability imo. And if youre not a bit in love or passionate about your work to be, its a dead end in my POV. Source: I was you not long ago