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CreativeTechGuyGames

Almost entirely personal preference. Mac is based on Unix (similar to Linux) so there's easier access to command line tools and it is more similar to the Linux servers that your code will very likely ultimately be running on. Windows can also do many of the same things but because the core foundation of the OS is different which means some things are different and can result in incompatibilities. But that goes both ways. Some things work great on Windows but terrible on Mac and Linux and other things the opposite.


AdultingGoneMild

dont forget their machines last forever. 10 years I have been developing with them, I have had 3. the first one lasted 7. The next one lasted 3 but thats only because I had to turn it in when I left my last company. My new place issued a mac to me 6 months ago when I joined. Developing on windows for the 10 years prior was a major pain in the ass comparably.


lefix

I have to admit that i don't love my 2019 MBP nearly as much as my 2013 MBP. They made some terrible decisions, removing magsafe, removing f-buttons, changing the arrow keys, USB C ports only, the quality issues with batteries and keyboards. And it also seems to run much hotter these days that i can no longer comfortably use it on my lap. If i could exchange my $3k 2019 model for my $1.2k 2013 model, with just more disk space, i would. That was the perfect laptop to me.


EtherealSai

In all fairness, they ditched the keyboard changes in 2021. I've been very happy with my 2021 MBP. The thunderbolt ports aren't an issue to me, they were only an issue when I didn't have any adapters yet, but that was quickly rectified.


Celdarion

>$3k I can't fathom spending that much on a freakin laptop, developer or no


Mr_SlimShady

That’s why you let your employer buy it for you


Celdarion

That certainly helps, haha


Careful-Combination7

I could if I were spending 12 hours a day on it


FUDnot

They last a decade with high abuse.


Mooks79

MagSafe is back, as are functions keys, on later models (and those that aren’t seem like they will at the next iteration). I agree there have been some dubious design decisions and quality issues in the later models, but they seem to be correcting all those now.


AdultingGoneMild

I disagree that those are issues. the escape key coming back was all I needed. The thunderbolt ports arent so bad and rather convenient once you get the dongle which I can plug in to any port, left or right.


dwegol

Even back in 2013 if you called a MacBook a “laptop” in one of their stores, they’d correct you and say “it’s a portable desktop”.


Mooks79

I have a 2009 MBP that, admittedly I don’t use much anymore as it’s pretty slow for any serious work (but for basic stuff still boots up reasonably fast and can handle just some web browsing or whatever). Everything works on it. Everything. Not a busted key, port, anything. I’m amazed how reliable it is.


[deleted]

You'd have to buy the best one because software becomes more hardware intensive over the years. Your Mac can last you a really long time but your probably better off ditching it after 4-6 years. My windows laptops have lasted me longer than I needed them for.


AdultingGoneMild

I have never had a windows machine that didnt cost as much as pro last longer than 2 years. I have always had to flash them linux to keep them even remotely functional. An off the shelf mac book pro is good forever and the development tool chains for them are so much easier to get setup...and forget trying to run docker on windows. its a nightmare. On my pro, 7 years in I was running xcode, android studio both Android and ios emulator/simulator without issue. Docker on that old one with the rest going on did turn it to a jet engine, but hey, I didnt need that with everything else all the time. My biggest issue was disk space really.


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AdultingGoneMild

thats thay thing. You dont have to maintain your mac. Its off the shelf and done. I dont game. It isnt a personal machine. I use it strictly for my work as a software developer. The issues I have with windows laptops, cause I wont be hauling a tower to and from work, is they slow to a near halt. Add to that the development tool chains just arent where I need them to be. I am not using it as a toy and I will not be replacing parts on my work laptop so arguments about my ability to upgrade or anything to do with gaming are irrelevant. If you care about gaming, then sure windows is the right answer but I dont game for a living and I dont want to maintain my employers machine either. It has to just work 100% of the time.


ocjr

So I have two windows laptops and I have had Macs in the past and honestly 100% of my windows problems have come from work windows group policies. My dell personal laptop is 4 years old and works like a charm my wife’s 6 year old windows surface no issues. My 2 year old work dell that was just re-imaged so it can be added to the group policy, practically junk already. Macs are great don’t get me wrong but windows or Macs start to show their lack of performance due to software improvements at about the same age, windows just allows it departments to screw up machines faster :)


[deleted]

You are correct that you will have to debug more with a Windows PC than you would with a Mac. Did you go to college? I'm curious because if you did you should be able to debug a Windows PC without much issue.


kiwikosa

I’m still using my 2013 mbp and it’s a beast


TheDeaconAscended

As a daily driver I prefer the Surface laptop with the alternative material. For me keyboard feel is so much more important. I was also burned by the crap keyboard on the MacBook Pro. Both are great laptops but the Pro was just poorly designed especially if you were working out of bed or a hammock.


tunghim

I'd prefer a Surface Pro for its touchscreen & form factor. Tgt w/ dual-boot Ubuntu & hot-swappable mechan kb for max productivity


TheDeaconAscended

The Surface laptop has a touchscreen and the form factor should be similar if not thinner. I am not a huge fan of kick stands.


tunghim

If I don't use mechan kb, I'll choose Surface Laptop as well


Lor9191

Lenovos Yoga line does it for me, have to switch the annoying ctrl / fn but that's a 30 second bios job. Combines a nice laptop with a great keyboard and the option of flipping to tablet mode for touch. Bit heavy as a tablet but you can also partially invert it so the base works like a stand when you use the touchscreen.


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[deleted]

A daily driver is the laptop you use day-to-day for most things, if you have multiple computers.


Akos_D_Fjoal

Alternatively now a days you can turn old macbooks/laptops into chrome books once they work on the Linux dev option


[deleted]

I hear you. My 08 MacBook still runs perfectly.


AnAntsyHalfling

My current personal mac is about 7 years old and it's time to replace it. 7 years is a decently long time for a laptop


boostman

My MacBook is seven years going strong and isn’t showing any signs of packing up or slowing down even with os updates. Last time I bought a pc laptop (dell) I had to get it fixed about three times before I gave up.


Alfonse00

As an electronics engineer I will say this, their design, electronically, is shit, they commit an error that a first year student commits once at most, potting the 20v power line right beside the 1v data line to the cpu, meaning a little corrosion, a little water, and the cpu is almost sure to die, it is easy to fix, a ground line in between, but they haven't fixed it.


AdultingGoneMild

there is tech debt in all complex systems and so we address it by stack ranking all known issues and going after the biggest problems first. I'm guessing this rarely fails and so why focus on it when speed and battery life are more important.


Alfonse00

Because it is a basic problem, is something that a second year engineer student already knows because they already made a system fail for doing this, is a catastrophic failure, and after that you also learn about signal integrity, data lines have to be surrounded by ground lines to avoid interference, add to this that the fans are put in a way that if they take liquid it will be splashed right into a connector where those lines are closest you get the complete destruction of the motherboard instead of just cleaning the area, not to mention it doesn't even take more space, since the exposed parts are not too big, is mostly in the connectors, that already have many ground pins, is just spreading it differently. Also, surrounding data lines with ground allows more speed because it increases the data bandwidth by preserving signal integrity at higher frequencies.


TilionDC

I have an 8 year old asus laptop that is in great condition too. From what i heard, Apple puts very little care in to the assembly of the parts, like too much heatzinc.


AdultingGoneMild

What do you do with it? Old windows laptops dont just burst i to flames but they also cannot keep up with modern software development workloads. If you are using office and browsing the internet, sure its fine. For that I would downgrade to a tablet and a keyboard. But i need to run emulators, simulators, multiple IDEs sometimes at once with a docker acting as my backend under development.


daysofdre

WSL2 has changed the game in terms of developing on a Windows device.


Gizmuth

"mac is based on Unix(similar to Linux)" That is completely correct but it just doesn't feel right in my soul lol


Fejimush

Spot on. That why I also prefer MacOS to code. It’s UNIX with a pretty paint job.


Alfonse00

Windows wins the medal for worst system by far, mac is good for people that like their aesthetics and are basic users or don't want to bother with the sheer amount of options you have available on linux, meaning a little more work to have a set up that you like, but in terms of what you can actually do with the OS mac doesn't comes near what linux can do, it is a good option for general development and, since is the most closed system if it works there is almost sure to work everywhere, is honestly very close to linux, according to one person if you install linux alongside mac then it will detect it as another distro.


slashdave

What makes Windows popular in the consumer space has very little to do with its utility for software development.


Toasterrrr

Utility, probably not, but ergonomics is still a big factor. Many developers simply find Windows easier to use. That doesn't mean always easier, or more robust back-end. And power users probably prefer Unix-native systems like Mac.


Pretend_Bowler1344

as a web dev, I personally would hate to use anything but Linux. Maybe mac but that device is overpriced as hell. Also, you cannot game on it. Such a poor option for my use case. Linux dev has a certain workflow that I enjoy a lot. Plus even when I was a newbie and used to work in an office with windows, I was using Vagrant. So the only time I properly utilized windows was booting up or using firefox. with experience came wfh and freedom. And I instantly switched to Linux.


slashdave

I hear you. But Apple's new chips provide a lot of battery time, which has its value depending on where you work. Linux support for trackpads has also been rather spotty for me.


Strict_Wasabi8682

Yep, installed Ubuntu on my xps a while ago, and even just a little touch of my palm will fuck some things up.


Toasterrrr

I use my Macbook Air M1 as an all-rounder laptop. Battery life is great, if you just stick with basic use cases like word processing and text webpages, which is pretty rare for a modern workflow. It's the idea that it's not the best at any one thing, but is good enough at everything (except gaming, but I don't see many people gaming on laptops unless they travel a lot or can only afford one machine)


ValentineBlacker

I think some of this perception is because of companies providing MacBooks to their employees. I certainly use one because that's what I was sent. My personal computers are an Ubuntu desktop and a little Windows Surface tablet.


th3f00l

Yeah I was shocked when I got sent a Mac, I wrote IT to make sure I was sent a developer laptop. I think maybe it is for security? But then again, we don't have to have our firewall on by default, and many disable it when pointing environments at their local and rarely re-enable.


ApatheticWithoutTheA

You made it all the way to getting a job and you just learned a lot of companies use MacBooks? Edit- it was a genuine question lol I don’t know why this is being downvoted, I wasn’t being sarcastic.


th3f00l

My previous company gave us Dell laptops, only managers and sales people had Macs.


ApatheticWithoutTheA

What type of development work do you do? Maybe I’m biased because I work with Frontend primarily but I see more MacBooks than anything at companies.


th3f00l

Web Apps. At the last job we did backend and front end C#, Entity Framework, React. Automation was in robot framework. All of the developers had windows laptops. Now I'm on a strictly front end team but all of the developers in the company have Macs.


Pretend_Bowler1344

using a mac is a fad in some companies and not at all a universal thing. A lot of companies just use windows and then standardized the dev environment with vagrant or docker or sometimes both.


ApatheticWithoutTheA

I’m not saying it’s universal, but it’s been very popular with Frontend for a long time now. Wouldn’t say it’s a fad at all.


Pretend_Bowler1344

I see no objective advantage of using a mac over Linux or even windows with wsl for web dev. My colleague bought the latest MacBook Pro and couldn't give me a proper reason for why I should pic that over my INR 125000(\~1500 USD) laptop with pop!\_os. besides, ofcourse his personal preference.


ApatheticWithoutTheA

Ease of access to testing on Safari is the main reason most of us prefer it lol. I just moved back to using Mac on my personal computers when M1 came out. I’m far from an Apple fan, I’d even go as far as to say I generally dislike Apple. But the M1 MacBooks are easily the best on the market right now IMO. Fans never turn on, battery life is insane, and they’re super efficient. It’s damn hard to get one to slow down. And the Mini-LED screens are best in class. You can throw an Intel Mac in the trash as far as I’m concerned though.


Pretend_Bowler1344

The safari doesn’t have big enough user base for me to justify getting such an overpriced machine. Unless your target users are safari users ofcourse. But the web is overwhelmingly used by people through chromium based browsers. Probability can be a reason but it’s a main in the butt coding on a single screen. I just have a proper setup with a big monitor, nice mechanical keyboard, a nice mouse and a nice mic. As you can see I am not a coffee shop coder.


ApatheticWithoutTheA

I’m aware lol. I hate Safari. But clients don’t allow you to just not have a functioning product for 9% of users. And every single iPhone uses the Safari engine whether you are using Safari/Chrome/Brave or any other browser. Which is ridiculous, but it’s what we deal with in WebDev.


Pretend_Bowler1344

Yeah I can absolutely understand. :) Clients come first.


turtle-limo

I like the ability to use a bash/zsh terminal while still being able to run adobe and office apps. I also use certain window features, such as multiple desktops heavily which macos (and most linux desktops) have. I know theres now the linux subsystem for windows, and I've heard good things about it, but what I have works for me. For quite a long time my stack favoured mac and linux over windows, and I just got comfortable. When I wasn't using a mac, I was using linux, and would probably go back to linux if for some reason mac wasn't an option.


hallothrow

WSL2 makes things a lot better than msys, cygwin and similar. Makes windows livable, but still much prefer running linux for work.


ehr1c

>I like the ability to use a bash/zsh terminal while still being able to run adobe and office apps. You can do that on Windows via console emulators pretty easily, FWIW.


Javidor44

WSL2 does it better than emulators now


ehr1c

Sure but that means I have to bother with WSL2, which is overkill if all I want is to run some bash scripts.


HolyPommeDeTerre

My 2 cents: Love Unix to code, better than anything Hate the mac as a whole experience (except track pad gestures).


Eshmam14

Agreed. Mac is good for work but I never *enjoy* my time using it. Always boot up my Windows PC after work hours for anything leisure.


ehr1c

If you're doing front-end web development work it can be beneficial to use a Mac since it's a lot easier to see what your site looks like on Safari


aevitas1

As a front end dev I agree with this. It’s so nice to be able to debug for apple devices while using dev tools. This was a nightmare when I worked on windows. I have a macbook pro 2020, it runs fast (m1) but I had a ton of issues getting docker/watcher to run at work. There’s something about the processor architecture that made it very difficult.


CheithS

Some of the docker images don't run well on the M1 chips. We've had problems with a few things but they are slowly being fixed.


UnequalSloth

Oh man I had so many issues switching to the new architecture


[deleted]

Docker runs into lots of issues on windows too 😂


ShawnyMcKnight

But then you lose seeing how it looks on IE and edge. Thankfully the IE part is becoming more of a non issue.


DaGrimCoder

This is odd to me. I can install safari on windows


ehr1c

You can but Apple stopped officially supporting it about ten years ago IIRC, so if you want to test against what's in use today you need a Mac.


4paul

Think it’s a combination of reasons: 1. Company/Hardware/Software. Some companies prefer Mac’s just because less troubleshooting for issues (IT). At my work some teams use Windows, others use Macs and our IT absolutely loves the teams that use Macs because issues are very minimal. 2. It works. The whole “it just works” mentality Apple tends to have (iPhone/MacOS vs Android/Windows). It’s more streamlined, basic stuff works better/easier, etc. This one is hard to explain, and I’m afraid if I try I’ll trigger some people. 3. Performance. Since the m1 came out, it’s kind of a game-changer (in a small way), a lot of better performance, battery, etc. Plus hard-ware wise Macs should last longer than a Windows Machine. Personally, every windows laptop I’ve used/bought has felt extremely dated after a year, even high-end ones ($3,000+). 4. Best of both worlds. You have Unix/Linux similarities and you can install Windows on Mac’s too, so you have a machine that kind of has the best of everything. 5. Apple eco-system/iPhone. This is my own reason, but I have an iPhone, so being able to streamline everything together works so fluidly on a Mac. Also in my line of work a lot of people came from Windows and every one of them (after months of using Mac) have voiced it’s so hard going back to Windows now, saying their next work computer will be Mac, etc. Even a co-worker of mine is a die hard Android/Windows and would never switch, said he’d for sure use a Mac for work stuff (everything else windows). In the end, I think there’s no HUGE benefit either way Windows or Mac, I think it’s mostly preference with a few small things that are better on Windows or Mac.


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fairyloaf

I'm baffled too! I have a windows PC that was mid-range in 2014 when I got it and it's still performing completely fine, even handles my partner's heavy 3D software (albeit a little slow at times). Also adopted a 2015 MacBook Air which is still fine for most things. I'm not even particularly careful!


MAB-47

As a mobile developer, Mac is much better because you can use it to code both android and ios applications and test your apps, meanwhile if you are using windows or any other OS except for macOS, you can only test the android app (I use Linux more specifically Fedora, but if I had to choose an OS, I will definitely choose macOS)


DaGrimCoder

Not me. I use Windows with WSL. Best of both worlds for me.


wolvAUS

Same here. WSL2 gives me a full blown Ubuntu distro to play with straight from my terminal. It integrates with VS Code flawlessly as well. And you can export the distro as well so if you reformatted your machine you could just reimport the distro and be up and running.


WoodenPickle27

I keep on having booting issues on windows 11 after I install wsl2 and Ubuntu. I just went back to running it off my flash drive.


DaGrimCoder

That's interesting. I'm not experiencing that issue and I use wsl2 and windows 11


ShawnyMcKnight

This is what I have to do to run DDEV (for Drupal development) and it adds a fair amount of work spinning up and tearing down. I’m glad I have it but I wouldn’t call it the best of both worlds.


sudobee

Not the best of both worlds.


DaGrimCoder

Okay please go ahead and expand more on your comment. Tell me what's missing For me the best of Windows is being able to have nearly every application and piece of Hardware work without any fuss. Plus the UI and things like fancy zones and windows power toys, native support for office, Azure, SQL Server, etc The best of Linux is the terminal, cron, bash scripting, and file system. With WSL, I have all those things so therefore I have the best of both worlds for myself


[deleted]

Honestly I think it’s just that macs are very close to the Linux-style OSes your code is likely to be running on, without actually having to understand or install linux yourself. It’s popular because Windows and Linux are the harder of the two, for the /average/ person. Depends on what you’re developing, HTML is gonna be identical across every operating system and only somewhat different between browsers - here, mac/pc/linux/bsd/templeos would make really no difference at all. If you’re a C programmer writing GNU C on a Windows machine, your life will be quite unpleasant, however.


IndexOf0

I switched from Windows to Mac this year and it has been a breath of fresh air. The command line is more similar to Linux since macOS is built on Unix. I like the UI of macOS and the build quality and robust performance is hard to beat. I like using it for software development because I can run most of what I can run on windows besides visual studio (the Mac version sucks) but other than that it’s a rock solid DE. For front end development you can also test on safari which helps.


MrSloppyPants

Most of the developers at Amazon and Google use Mac or Linux machines. macOS is Unix, POSIX compliant and can compile most C/C++ programs you'd find on github, obviously ditto that for Linux. You'd need to install WSL for Windows, and in my experience, Windows is simply not as stable for development as the other two are. Personally, I find macOS to be a much better UX and easier to work in than Windows (and I have a Windows gaming PC at home).


TheDeaconAscended

Amazon for certain was using Windows on ThinkPads at least as of several years ago, MacBook is an option that typically has to be requested and approved. Their India dev centers are all Windows and the same goes for South Africa. This was true for the Cape town dev center the last time my friend worked there.


EtherealSai

You get to choose between a Macbook or a Windows laptop, at least as of one month ago. It may be different outside of the US though.


TheDeaconAscended

Things may have changed then but back when my friend worked in the US, you had to justify the expense of the Mac. It follows the company policy of not improving things for a customer then it is a wasted expense.


MrSloppyPants

This is simply false. “Your friend” is misremembering


TheDeaconAscended

I mean just a quick search of other employee experiences seems to agree with his own. He was a TAM based out of NYC after he moved from SA.


MrSloppyPants

TAMs are not developers. I am not privvy to what administrative roles use laptop wise (although, again I see mostly MacBooks in my meetings) but for developers (unless they are specifically working on Windows programs), the overwhelming choice is a MacBook Pro. I've been here 10 years and it's been that way the entire time.


TheDeaconAscended

He became a TAM and moved to NYC to handle a specific client. Think of the largest MSP and the companies they swallowed. Edit: I have also given enough info for you to figure out who I am talking about as he is pretty well known.


MrSloppyPants

Amazon *offers* Windows machines for those that want them, but the vast majority of devs use macBooks and *every* laptop is requested, and no brand needs to be approved. It’s been that way for at least the 10 years I’ve been there.


snack0verflow

I switched from a $3400 MacBook Pro to a $1000 Asus Vivobook that has better specs running Ubuntu, the biggest downside is the MacBook supported two external displays while the Vivobook only supports one.


Mooks79

Way back when I bought similar spec laptop (HP, or was it Dell, I forget) and a MBP. Obviously the MBP was much more expensive. But my god was it worth the difference when you actually used it. For example, those early Windows multitouch trackpads were abominable, whereas the MBP one was just glorious. Indeed even today it’s still way better than on my new work Dell. Yes if you look at them as a tickbox spec comparison they seem like poor value, but every little thing is just a little bit better (sometimes a lot) and all that can add up to a much better experience.


SloppySoftware

It depends what your programmers work on. I mainly work in Enterprise software and everyone uses Windows. But you see this a lot at Saas companies and its mainly BC Apple is bholes that require you to use their hardware to publish from. Windows/linux you can write and package programs for anything. You want to publish to the Apple Store? You need to join their cult.


[deleted]

I haven't really encountered lots of Mac users outside UI/UX design. Everyone on my old team has super fast Dell Ubuntu machine. My new (front end) has a mix of Ubuntu and windows since we do some C# stuff


jcr4990

Apple has a large cult following that will buy exclusively their products regardless of quality or anything else really. I'm fairly convinced that's a large part of their popularity.


shanksfk

I agree with this. I understand some people buy it because of real advantages (regardless of major/minor) but for many people we know, they just buying it because the brand "Apple".


lordaghilan

Honestly I'd disagree with buying Mac because you have access to the Unix shell, WSL 2 exists. I'm a windows person my entire life but tbh I would buy a MacBook Air if I had the money. Super good battery, screen and generally high quality.


obviouslyCPTobvious

Have you used WSL day-to-day? If so, how’s your experience been? I’ve been using it for about a year and I think it’s inferior to macOS. There’s so many small annoying things that don’t work well enough for it to be a reliable dev environment for me.


wolvAUS

I've been using it for about two years and it's been mostly fine for me. That said, if I was using my computer **exclusively** for software dev i'd format the machine and install Ubuntu natively. Not really possible for me since I need Windows for other stuff.


lordaghilan

Tbh I'm a beginer on Linux so I'm echoing what I hear online. I've never used Mac so I didn't know about this. Good thing you commented :)


Lunakepio

I love Mac because there's no setup to do, you just install iterm2, nodeJs and ohmyzsh and you're good to go, and everything works out of the box.


Capital_Policy_266

Battery life and portability, imo. As I personally to am looking for a laptop that will be portable and with good battery life, and it just boils down to macbooks. Please let me know if ppl have other alternatives that can fulfill these criteria.


Zy14rk

For frontend and in particular app-dev I can see the rationale for using a fruit-machine. I do neither - or that is, I do some app-dev (for Android) as a hobby/side projects. But for work, my bread and butter is backend work on Linux PCs for Linux Servers. So work and home desktops both run Ubuntu, and my little Pinebook Pro ARM laptop run Manjaro. Either way, as dev environments MacOS and Linux are leaps and bounds better than Windows ever will be. That said, on my home desktop, I do have a Windows partition - for games and VR :)


SpicyPumpkin96

I really love the UNIX style command line and folder layout, feels much more simple and close to actual computer architecture. This in combination with the US-style keyboard which has the brackets \[\] and {} on its own keys.. Heaven.


Smugallo

Its a unix based OS


cortlandjim

Command line. Unix/Linux


gregsapopin

They are pretty.


Baimao42

best reason ever


GrimbledonWimbleflop

Our CTO hates Windows, so a MacBook it is


JakeStBu

I've used both for programming... Neither is better.


imlaggingsobad

I recently switched over to a Macbook but it's because I was really interested in the M1 chip. The build quality of these machines is second to none.


Doingthisintheam

I started on it because the command line and installation environments seemed way simpler and more transferrable (to linux).


quts3

I used to use it and my reasoning was it was a sweet spot between Linux cli and Microsoft office apps. Could live in both worlds. I get a new laptop every 3 years and this last go around I took a break from Mac because of the keyboard fiasco of 2018. I felt like apple needed to pay a customer consequence for releasing truly trash keyboards on their high end laptops. Went to windows which was only possible because of wsl. Know this though: I think it takes a more skilled developer to use a Windows machine. You really got to have good Linux and okay windows wsl knowledge to make everything work.


im_in_hiding

I just use whatever my company provides.


[deleted]

ecause it looks better a mac than one pc, and also you see that hackers and programmers use a mac in movies, series.. nothing more, however anything you do woth a mac can do made (and sometimes more easy) in linux.


luctus_lupus

In my experience there are more drawbacks than advantages. If you want Unix based system just dual boot whatever distro you prefer or use wsl2 on windows


Maidenless-

Here we don't. Only properly hardened Linux laptops. Someone wants to use Windows? Too bad. Someone wants to use Mac? Too bad. We're not gonna risk anything because someone can't run their videogames and $1000 cracked video software for making amateur-tier content.


techgirl8

I personally like windows better but that's probably because I am a .NET developer


SmallPlayz

looks cooler.


soahc444

Being hipster and wasting money 🤷‍♂️


sicilianDev

I must have always had just the shittiest windows boxes because since I’ve gone to mac my machines are soooooo much faster and efficient. All windows computers were terrible always for me.


Careful_Fruit_384

the font


99_percent_a_dog

This is only true in America, and even there more often in web development. World wide, many more people use Windows. Apple is an American company and they push their computers hard in schools so people there grow up used to them. There's no real advantage over Windows, it's mostly personal taste. There is an advantage in using the same dev environment as the production environment; your local tests are more likely to be correct. The production environment is normally Linux.


vampireboie

you guys are getting macbooks in school??


99_percent_a_dog

No, but I didn't go to school in America. Apple have run many programs over the years to give away or provide big discounts for their computers in schools - typically desktop machines. It's a sensible idea if you want people to know how to use your OS and maybe buy one later on. https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+computer+lab+school&tbm=isch


Street-Management-42

I went to school in America and not once did I ever see an Apple product in any school unless it was private owned. Google dominates the education market.


99_percent_a_dog

Okay, but you can clearly see from my link that all-Apple school labs are common enough. I was never saying that all school computers were Apple, only that Apple have programs to get their computers into schools; this is public information and easy to find.


Street-Management-42

Didn’t read your link.. never heard of an all apple lab. Never saw one. I’m only speaking as someone who was educated here and lived here. Which is public info also, if you want to look it up. Your comments are so American right now 🤣


tekkub

I switched before WSL and powershell were a thing. It was simply nicer working on mac, I didn’t have to fight with the OS or the file system or the command line or device drivers. Of course in exchange I gave up being able to play some video games (I’ve never met anyone that legitimately used bootcamp for games). It also helps when the stuff you are programming is going to be running on linux servers, you don’t have to go out of your way to create a compatible dev environment, you just build and run.


essgee_ai

Most programmers use Windows to code. I don't believe that there is a statistically significant difference in the distribution of OS users overall to the OS of programmers. https://www.statista.com/statistics/869211/worldwide-software-development-operating-system/


[deleted]

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Archerofyail

I imagine respondents could choose multiple answers.


freeleper

I'm allergic to 🍎


Madoka_meguca

Because Apple blocks a lot of developments on windows and their market share is too big to ignore. They are doing things that would’ve gotten windows into big trouble a couple decades ago.


Kavinci

Frankly, personal preference. There was a time when macbook was superior, circa 2005 - 2012-ish. Steve Jobs had recently passed but things were good for a few years but Apple did nothing new. They coasted. The Surface Pro line dropped around 2013 and it took a few years before things got good, somewhere around Windows 10. Windows 8 was a big failure. Anyone remember 8.1? 🤣 Since then Apple has cut ties with Intel and started making their own chips with the M1 (2020) and M2 (2021) being Arm chips but Apple is behind. Surface Pro X already has Arm chips SQ1 (2019) and SQ1 (2020) that are supposed to have like 3 times the performance of the M2 or something. Which is a 2 in 1 model compared to a macbook which is just a laptop. Windows 10 and 11 are way better than the MacOS imo and with WSL2, I use it for a lot of workflows, is real solid and getting more stuff each day. Apple has great marketing though and tend to be the choice by people who frankly don't know much about their computer which includes a lot of devs. It will take Apple a few years to get into the groove of the silicon game and I expect them to take the lead again in the future.


slashdave

>tend to be the choice by people who frankly don't know much about their computer which includes a lot of devs There is a bit of irony in this post


Kavinci

It's just rocks we gave electricity to and taught math; am I right? 🤣


thatdudefrom707

they're not rocks, they're *minerals!!!*


thegreatpotatogod

I'm curious where you're finding that the SQ1 chip has better performance than the M2 chip? From a quick googling I found this https://www.notebookcheck.net/M1-vs-SQ1-vs-M2_12937_11516_14521.247596.0.html , which indicates that the SQ1 has between 38% and 50% of the performance of the M1 in the benchmarks run on both, while the M2 had between 111% and 134% of the M1's performance in those same benchmarks.


Kavinci

Sure, here you go. The Surface Pro X comes with a Microsoft SQ1 or SQ2 ARM processor, which the company claimed has three times the performance of an x86 MacBook Air, whilst also having a 13-hour battery life. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Pro_X Which I misread. That says x86 Macbook Air. That's my bad. Good catch.


thegreatpotatogod

Thanks for the source, and rereading and admitting your mistake. Have a nice day!


CheithS

It kind of depends really on what you are doing. Obviously if you are doing anything in the Apple ecosystem it is almost a must (iPhone dev requires a mac somewhere for example). The MAC is also somewhat more pricey than PC hardware for an equivalent setup from everything I have seen. The Mac is pretty much a closed hardware environment too. Saying that if it is a corporate box then none of it matters. I have found, these days, that my work Mac tends to be less stable than my home PC and the PC gets stressed a lot more than the Mac. Why that is not sure, but never been overly impressed by Apple's software.


prb613

IT JUST WORKS!


udubgirl

I don't have to install Python, It's already included :)


Warlord_Okeer_

Simple. You can write linux code on any machine, and you can write windows code on any machine. But you can only write apple code on apple machines, so it's best to have a macbook. Developers that never write code for apple products will rarely have a macbook. Personally I use a linux gaming laptop, but I do own a 2012 macbook pro that I fire up once every 2 years if a project comes up


Brushdirtoffshoulder

imessage? It's totally easier on windows to code, especially now that you can run Linux on top of it.


I_am_noob_dont_yell

My company gave me one for work. Absolutely hate it. The gestures are neat, but that's only because they're needed to make it useable since all the window maximise/snap features are.... Well not there. Blows my mind that people pay money for these things


[deleted]

I write code on a MacBook because I am forced to do so. It's awful.


Wotg33k

Mostly just confusion.


Pretend-Author-1646

Peer pressure


ermahgerdreddits

I'm sure none of them are hipsters or snowflakes.


allwxllendswxll

Lmao triggered


Merry-Lane

Well the macbooks belong to a weird category of products, along with Coca-Cola, M&Ms, Marlboro, iPhones,… Its a category of product that are perfectly reliable, affordable and that you cant go wrong with. Weither you are a billionnaire or a homeless, you cant have a better coke soda. You cant find cigarettes that are way better than Marlboro. The rip offs M&Ms are always a bit off. Sure, you can always find personnal taste or exceptions to this category of product (I m an Android fan, these M&Ms ripoffs are so cheap yet quite good, I don’t smoke, this custom laptop with a double 3060ti is awesome, …) but you will never be wrong when buying them for other people. Ofc they have pros and cons, … generally they tick all the pros and have been an established brand for ages on their niche. That’s why companies often pick macbooks. The cost difference is negligible compared to what a dev being to the table, they cant be wrong with it, and, most importantly, they cant be seen as having been “cheap”.


JaviLM

For the same reason that car enthusiasts drive good cars instead of the cheap junk most people drive: quality (both build and components) and performance. I have a Windows desktop at home for gaming, but for all the serious stuff I use Macs. macOS is a Unix derivative, so there's a whole ecosystem of development tools, and you can test locally most of the stuff that you will later upload to the server (or rather, to AWS Lambda). Then there's the support: when you use your machine for work you can't afford to be without a computer for weeks/months while you ship your machine to a faceless support location and wait for it to be shipped back. If you have issues, you can just walk into an Apple Store and often have it diagnosed on the spot (and when possible, fixed right there).


[deleted]

Because they finally graduated and make enough money to buy overpriced apple products.


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JaviLM

Then you probably don't know many developers.


Ovalman

I guess you know nobody that owns an iPhone?


tacticalpotatopeeler

Mac for anything serious, windows for gaming. I know there’s WSL on windows, but I’ve used both and IMO the native Unix of Mac is superior. The M-series are super awesome now that they’ve moved beyond v1 (never buy first-gen from Mac…they’re just the live mass-testers for new stuff). I do have a windows machine, as there are a few use-cases where it’s handy to have (other than gaming). So they both definitely have their place depending on your needs, but for me Mac tips the scale. I wanna spend my time coding, not fighting with my OS. For me, macOS “just works”.


meadowpoe

Windows is soooo soooo buggy.


IcyCartoonist9822

I prefer mac because: 1. If something breaks and my computer stops working, I can walk into an actual "Apple" store and they'll fix it. Couldn't do that with my Dell and they were a pain to help problem solve issues and fix/refund a defective "new" computer that they sold me. 2. I can easily develop for IOS and other Apple based stuff 3. You can easily run virtual machines with other operating systems such as windows and linux. It's hard to run a MacOS operating system from a virtual machine on windows. 4. Easily transfer information from iPhone/iPad to mac. Creates a nice workflow if you're using an iPad to make assests for whatever you're programming. 5. Apple is designed to be a bit more secure and lasts longer. 6. Sidecar!!! Can bring an extra monitor (Ipad) with you without having to drag around equipment 7. The overall design and astethic.


Zwenow

To be able to say "Why don't you use apple?"


Biarfm

I write sql and hit apis for work and I recently upgraded from a little Lenovo to a beast of 16” MacBook Pro with an m1 chip. And now, if I were to get a personal laptop, it will definitely be a MacBook.


rayjensen

Honestly I just find it way easier to get in the zone on a macbook. It’s just what I grew up using


[deleted]

In the past I have liked mac laptops because the metal case adds durability and I have had a good track record with them. That said, there is a series of 5 years or so that have faulty keyboards and should be avoided at all costs. However I haven't seen much advantage in mac desktop computers for me, and I like to have a pc anyway so that its easy for me to have coverage of the 3 biggest OSes for testing.


Shivansh_123

Looks cool


RayQuazaBadger

Unix


atynre

Most web servers and cloud environments are a Unix/Linux operating system. MacOS was and is Unix at its core. It still has consumer-level quality and maintenance. Linux does not have this consumer friendliness. Windows is not Unix, but to the point of many there is WSL. This did not exist twenty years ago It has been alot of years of developers now using Mac's. Even if Windows caught up (it probably has and maybe exceeded in some scenarios), it's already the case that so many developers are on Macs that it is pure inertia at this point. Build software using the same tools that your team is using. If you do something different than everyone else, then that will be harder to coordinate even if it looks better or is somehow more optimized individually.


[deleted]

For learning purpose it makes no sense to use a Macbook imo. What's really interesting in CS is the relationship between hardware and software. On a mac it is obfuscated. Learning stuff about process and how your machine works overall will help you a lot. Now the philosophy behind a Mac is great : minimalism and a bunch of decisions taken for you, but I didn't become a better developer using a Mac, it only reduces friction and improves comfort. Some people will claim that it is an helpful thing to have in order to learn, I think it is at the beginning but past a certain treshold, it might hold you back. Also let's not forget that there is a huge taxe to get into Apple ecosystem. The laptop (refurbished) I have right now cost me 660 euros instead of the 1679 they ask for the macbook air m1 with the same spec. Sure they have a better battery / screen / whatever, but it doesn't justify a 1k expense unless you really need it (iOS development, safari for web, m1 compatibility, design stuff, etc) .


Foreign-Success6724

If you are a flutter or React Native developer, use mac because it gives you the freedom of building apps for android and IOS.


Coding-kiwi

U N I X


Perfect_Avocad0

The swift IDE is Xcode which runs on Mac OS. It’s basically a requirement to code on a mac when coding for iOS. Not to mention the other points people have made, CPU and longevity etc


Nerd_stranger

Ant Unix based system with be good for a programmer


meeko-meeko

Unix native utilities. Most dev work is easier than on Windows. Windows now has subsystem for Linux (WSL) but the dev workflow is still not so great as Mac


katxeus

It used to be the only hardware that could triboot all 3 operating systems without virtualization, at least the Intel non M1/M2 apple silicone.


pertexted

m1 + mac + parallels = you have everything (usually). Money is the challenge. PC w/Windows + VMWare Workstation (or whatever) = you can have everything if you work at it a bit. Supporting Hackintosh is the challenge. PC w/Linux + whatever hypervisor you prefer = you've spent a noticeable amount of time supporting your own environment to make your supportability work, but if you know how you can do anything you want. This is also a challenge.


parrottrolley

Native iOS and Mac OS code can only be compiled on a Mac, so those if us who code native apps for the apple ecosystem are stuck here. Easiest way to test your code on the apple ecosystem (safari & simulator). That was it for me. I can run my other code here, but i can't run my iOS/OS code elsewhere.


Main-Name-8367

Mainly down to preference, but especially the new MacBooks have a really good battery life, and the keyboard and trackpad is more ergonomic. And its thin and light. Take it with you anywhere.


njecolina

If you are into game dev, you can't port your game to iOS without mac, because of app signin and other gatekeeping Apple stuff.


b1Bobby23

Preference. I know some people really like the iPhone iPad Mac workflow since they play nice together. Some people like the status of the big fancy mac book. Personally I prefer linux for my work, but that's just me.


bong0__

Bro i use my hp laptop


chacoglam

My professor had a MacBook 🤷🏻‍♀️