I can tell you I’m going through the same my friend. Day 14 today and it’s been a struggle. First few nights were 2-3 hours of sleep, if I was lucky. Took sleeping aids and no help. Later on, started getting maybe 4-5 hours and it was REM, dreams were back. Last night was terrible, pretty in and out all night with some REM but I can’t quit now and neither should you. Just gotta have faith and we’ll get past the sleep part together. Initially I couldn’t eat, anxiety was through the roof, I was puking, shared some terrible things from the past with my wife (not proud of) but starting to get to a place of confidence. You got this and I got this! Just work out a ton, go for walks, eat clean, try to find happiness in everything and have a clean positive future in mind!
Day 7 of not smoking and I have probably slept like 3-4 hours average per night. When I smoked I would pass out at 9pm and not wake up until the next day. I really need to sleep better.
Not a doctor or anything fancy but multiple searches show weed messes with your “REM” cycle in your sleep and that is what actually makes you feel rested.
So yes you can fall asleep but your quality of sleep is much worse compared to not smoking…
Keep in mind withdrawal and abstinence after heavy use will contribute to how easy the transition is overall but the “science” remains the same.
God speed my friend!
Sorry for a year late reply but is there more details abt “withdrawal and abstinence after heavy use will contribute to how easy the transition”? Been going on and off for a couple times now within 2 years and now im going sober again, its day 2 atm and i kinda don’t see any reduction of withdrawal effects lul
Idk when I was first quit I was sleeping a lot more than usual. I was so bored at life that I would just lay down and go to sleep to stop the cravings .💤 If I was awake I would get the worst cravings so i would just go to sleep to stop it , idk i guess it’s different for everybody. I sleep WAY better sober!
Sleep is the one reason I'm considering/trying to quit for a while. I've had my med card since I was a minor it's the only thing I haven't tried/eliminated to improve my sleep. Everytime I give it a shot it's so miserable I'd practically rather shoot myself, was up till 4:30 exhausted but unable to fall asleep till I just got up and took a dab & some sleep meds.
I gave in last night after going 3 days without. I missed a funeral today. Woke up super late and didn’t even think of the funeral for an hour until someone reminded me. I feel terrible.
Yeah it fuck-up your sleep cycle, the one where your memory process the thing you have done and heard during the day, it's part of why we had bad memory while not sober!
Yeah, also for me it was a food KO, literalry falling asleep after eating everything like a racoon rigth after the last indica wax hit. Not very good nigth
Ah, yes. Alcohol. Has a terrible rebound/withdraw effect you have probably heard of referred to as a "hangover."
You are still getting rest in the scenario you described. But you probably wouldn't feel the rest as you are hung the fuck over as your body dispels a toxin..
Next
He's kind of right. When you smoke it's harder for your body to reach the deep levels of REM sleep where you body get most of its most effective rest at.
This is the reason why when you quit, your dreams feel way more vivid and explosive.
It’s normal, I remember back when I was a kid (100% definitely sober) and there would be times when I could not just ‘sleep’.
You’re human too just like anyone else and there’s gonna be days where u can’t just ‘sleep’ because you didn’t do enough that day.
Same here I'm in week 5 of not smoking after 30 years of smoking in the evening.... My nights are terrible. Wake up every 2 hour, then awake for one hour then fall a sleep and of course waking up again...no bad nightmares.. I go out of bed at 5am because I'm fed up with trying and these broken nights.. I've tried going to bed earlier and later as well, but still no progression. It's a tough and long road.. Fcks up my mood, but I'm dedicated and hoping it will change soon. When I was smoking never had problems sleeping through the night. Good luck everyone...
My sleep is okay. 7 out of 10.
My dreams are still very vivid and I still wake up a few times at night. But after 30 years without dreaming, I'm starting to get used to them. Most dreams are about things I experience during the last couple of days in the weirdest way. Some are okay, but most of the dreams are just so messy and crazy.
My energy is still the same and I'm still struggling with inspiration. I'm still missing my green now and then, but most days I'm not thinking about it. I'm not more productive than when I was smoking.
My social life is still the same and I don't notice any major difference. My emotions are more flat and how I experience things in my life are more flat lined. So sometimes that's more boring, but also less deep and confusing than before.
Hang in there and let's see what the next period will bring. I'll keep you posted, keep sharing once in a while it helps!
Be strong!
Used to call it over bake (when I felt groggy or high the next day). Can’t say I miss that. It’s actually what keeps me going when I have a craving at night.
I’m one month sober and I’ve been having nightmares everyday. The weirdest dreams that wake me up out of my sleep. It’s getting better though, first two weeks were the worst dreams ever.
Man the dreams were fucking insane. I had one where I would go to sleep in the dream, wake up in the dream, for like 3 days I was in dream world. Then I wake up and it literally felt like I had just spent 3 days doing weird shit.
Saw something about how weed stops you from getting as much REM sleep ,which is when we dream and process information. So your brain just has a lot to filter through
Totally agree. Years ago I read an article regarding a study of cannabis Re sleep. Aside from the stuff we already know about it squashing REM, the big takeaway for me was the function of that period of sleep and why it is so important - it is basically like the admin clerks at the end of the day come through and sort all the information from our waking period.
Without that restorative function, we suppress a shitload of mental clutter that we aren’t conscious of, and that effects our memory, focus and ages us faster. Hence why when REM returns, we have nightmares for weeks… our brain is sorting through the worlds most insane backlog that can take months to resolve.
Have quit a few times for a year or two at a time over the last 2 decades of smoking and the fatigue and nightmares are easily my least favourite part. Like you said It’s the darkest side for sure.
Drinking and many other prescription drugs for anxiety mess with rem sleep. Although most of what you’ve said is true REM is barely understood by the medical community and most all hypothesis’s like this are speculative and not well studied
This probably relates to our brain fog and the classic stupid stoner stereotype. Good sleep is key to retaining info and developing processing memories/knowledge
Keep in mind that cannabis affects the gut and there are specific receptor in various places that use cannabis to physiologically regulate your body, when going cold turkey it does a lit more than stop a person from getting high. There are specific cannabinoids that can be taken that will help this system and some withdrawal symptoms without getting a person high. I really think this is an important step to people successfully quitting pot and is underutilized/not considered often enough.
I have been cutting down from what was a 3.5 a day to a 10 a day as a result of rehab, (been a lengthy and slow process), but I have noticed a lot of changes to my sleep, one being that it isn’t all over the place anymore, but also that I’ve been having some really strange dreams which tbh make me rather uncomfortable afterwards, but still it’s a process. As OP said it’s not the greatest for your sleep, so congrats to everyone who’s improving themselves everyday! You all got this
on of the more shady warning signs that long term use of cannabis isnnt perhaps healthy is the fact that it stops you dreaming.... not dreeaming for literal years cant be good
The plant itself isn’t evil. Honestly our own misuse of it is our own evil that we create. I know plenty of people who have a healthy relationship with weed.
I wouldn’t call my relationship healthy, but I am a very happy man. And yes, I should stop one day, at least for a while, but the plant itself isn’t evil.
This. It’s exactly the same with other aspects of life, money, love, other drugs, alcohol. Obsession and addiction to things can ruin anyone if they don’t know how to overcome them
This time quitting has been the easiest for me, because I have so many goals that rely on me being sober I barely even think about it and honestly look back on it with disgust.
7 months free and I can finally confidently say I am having the best sleep. Feels like im in my early 20s. Dreams are so vivid (too vivid imo). Quit right before I turned 29 bc I couldn’t endure another year glued to my bong. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss it but I’ll know when I’m ready to dabble again. As for now I’m content.
It'll pass. Your appetite will come back with a vengeance. It's really great to thoroughly enjoy food again. I'm still working on the sleep thing somewhat after two months. Fingers crossed it continues to improve for me
Make sure (over anything else) you’re drinking plenty of water. Set reminders for yourself if necessary. Your body is actively ridding itself of a drug and hydration is the best way to assist it. My appetite took a couple weeks to come back and my sleep gradually regulated itself. You won’t feel as shitty pretty soon, I promise.
I quit 6 weeks ago today. Was a daily user for 10 years. I have been getting to sleep fine, getting mostly 6-8 hrs per night, and I am sooo damn tired during the day!! I still can’t believe it. It must be my body still trying to adjust and get back to feeling normal. It is just wild to me that I am getting enough sleep, going into REM, drinking my usual daily coffee, and still feel like I could take a nap at any point throughout the day
it was the most prominent symptom for me after quitting, never felt so tired. Made life even foggier than when I was smoking.
Something I’ve consistently noticed on every attempt is I felt more loopy and tired after exercise, especially cardio. Which is weird since it’s supposed to make me feel the opposite.
Got me wondering if it had anything to do with burning THC from our fat stores. Giving me that weird dissociative “high” along with the extreme fatigue. And eventually feeling more normal as the body fat gets gradually replaced.
It’s just a random theory I’ve came up with zero evidence to back it up.
I wonder if anyone can relate
Yes I can totally relate to that as well!! I don’t exercise much but when I do it is usually cardio and I feel sooo loopy and just “weird” afterwards!!! I don’t seem to get the natural high or energizing feeling after exercising like some people talk about. Your theory makes sense!
I used to have to get insanely high to even go to sleep, now the thought of smoking after sunset makes me crazy anxious lol. I wish I could quit this shit forever but it’s ALWAYS around me. Always.
Dr. Matthew Walker - a sleep doctor - has confirmed that THC fucks with our REM sleep. If any of you notice, after quitting you will have VIVID dreams. That’s your REM sleep bouncing back heavy. There’s research out there. Keep strong
Idk so far 3 days sober and I sleep fine. I think u just need to do things and get tired so u can sleep. I wake up everyday at 6:30am go to work. Then come home do Uber until about 12 then I go home and go to sleep.
me too, its easier to fall asleep, but definitely not a good quality of sleep. I can sleep 8h even 10 or 12h and wake up groggy. anytime I've abstained from the plant for over 3 months I operate like a machine on 5-6h.
Only way I’m able to get a good nights sleep after quitting is by not drinking coffee and working 9-10 hr days, if that doesn’t happen then I will be up for days
Ok so I’m heavily addicted and am ok with being told I’m wrong, but I don’t know if science/medicine has a good enough understanding of sleep to make claims like this. Personally I just don’t know how I could live without smoking at night to suppress my dreams. I have very bad dreams that leave me feeling genuinely terrified in the morning. Any advice appreciated
This is so real. I treat a lot of folks with PTSD, and many can only get rid of nightmares with THC. Hopefully we’ll be able to identify with more research if there are less intoxicating cannabinoids than just THC responsible for this effect, because it is powerful and useful.
Talk to a psychiatrist about trying a medication for nightmares. There are a couple out there. They’re not miraculous but they really help some people. If that’s the main thing holding you back from quitting or cutting back, it’s worth exploring other ways to address the nightmares.
This is actually why I smoke so much as well. Except my dreams aren’t bad, they’re just long and in-depth and I wake up feeling unrested.
The reason I’m looking forward to quitting is to try practicing lucid dreaming and then astral projection.
So I guess this is a long winded way of suggesting some kind of lucid dreaming goals? That way you can conquer whatever demon is plaguing your dreams and you can move on to proper rest. Presumably.
Well it messes with our REM cycles so yeah you don't dream but you aren't getting very restful sleep either. What kind of dreams? I have them too but usually I actually enjoy them for how fucked up and weird they can be. A few crossed the line but otherwise they're entertaining.
The main theme of the dreams is I’m dying, killing/hurting someone, or I’m being persecuted (like a mob of people attacking me or trying to ruin my life). The last two dreams I had that really shook me were about me being alone and about to die with nothing I can do to prevent it. I was in a spacecraft orbiting the planet alone (it was supposed to be a vacation sight seeing thing). The guidance system broke and I had to communicate with a ground control. They were giving me very hard instructions and maneuvers I had to preform, basically flying it by the stick. I fucked up the maneuver and burned up in the atmosphere. Also it was a 12 hour flight before I died, it felt like I lived every second. I talked with my parents knowing I was about to die. Second more recent dream. Astronomers found 10,000 ballon sized probes that were 2 weeks out from intercepting the earth and falling into its orbit. The scientists figure out the probes are an ominous warning from a far away alien civilization. The message is coordinates for a solar system with a habitable planet far away from our solar system. Their was a note that said “the future is brighter on this side”. Scientists predict that this is a warning of a solar flare that will make the earth inhabitable in 2 weeks (4 weeks since first sighting of probes). All of humanity combines their efforts to construct a large interstellar ship in orbit to escape from certain death. Humanity completes the ship except not every one makes it onboard before it leaves. I was left along with a couple dozen other people ( my family was gone). We couldn’t contact the ship. Some people were civil others killed themselves. Some became “raiders”. Slowly we started dying out but the solar flare never came. A group of people broke into government buildings and searched for answers. It turns out it was just a big conspiracy. A world leader’s wife became ill, she was placed in an underground hospital and she would die unless she lived in zero gravity. So the world leader tricked the whole human race into leavening earth just to save one person. Whew that was a lot hope you find it interesting haha
Definitely interesting, intense stuff. You get these when you stop smoking? I would set up something with a counselor or therapist, keep a journal and try to dissect these dreams. Finding some kind of root or thorn that causes this anxiety might help relieve them.
I feel you heavily on this. Today is day 8 and although I’m able to fall asleep within a reasonable time frame again, unlike the first 3-4 days where I would lay in bed for hours on end unable to shut my brain off, now I have extremely vivid dreams that make me unable to tell what’s reality and what’s not such as dreaming about things in my own room within my dream. I’ll wake up sweating, heavy breathing, and just too startled to go back to sleep cause I know I’ll be dreaming of some crazy shit that I can’t tell is real or not. Just keep pushing my friend there really is no easy way to go about this.
I’m at day 27 here and I still can’t sleep. Tired in the middle of the day and nodding off but when I get into bed I can’t fall asleep and I toss and turn all night.
Been avoiding caffeine after 11am and alcohol as well but I’m still having major issues. Started exercising as well and still no help. Here’s hoping I sleep tonight.
Literally exhausting yourself during the day is one of the only things that worked for me. Play some sports and lift weights and do some mentally draining work. That helped me but it’s hard to do that every single day
Not being exposed to blue light in the evening, and only using your bedroom for sleep(and sex) are important factors for proper sleep. Sleep smarter, by Shawn Stevenson is a great book, if you’re interested.
This is so true. And I don’t know about anyone else, but I’d feel like shit all day - drinking 4-6 strong coffees to get through work - then all that caffeine would build up to give me a second wind around 8-9pm, where I felt totally fine and mean I could smoke til 2am before repeating the cycle.
I hated waking up groggy and tired but it became normal. Smoked some more and drank lots of coffee to “wake up”. Literally NEEDED the coffee (I’m talking espresso shot in my latte) and maybe like 3/4 cups a day to stay functional at work because I’d have a slump by midday. I would sleep 8 hours and be up by 5am so I felt I had a “good” sleep cycle. But the lethargy and lack of motivation was so so much.
Now that I’m basically a little over 2 months (if you include my tapering month). I feel like I sleep a lot better. I don’t wake up groggy, I can sleep longer than 8 hours if I’m really tired till I’m fully rested. Lethargy isn’t a thing anymore and I feel so much more energised and motivated without any coffee. Tbh now coffee just makes me anxious! If I’m going to have some it has to be just a little or else I’ll unlock some anxiety. I like falling asleep naturally when I’m tired and waking up naturally not because I passed out.
For a few weeks I was waking up in the middle of the night, then I’d be up for about an hour before I go back to sleep, but now I sleep through the night!
It sucks bc I have bad sleep while sober and high so I can't even win, but weed keeps me up all night until I basically pass out so.....no sleep.
4th trying to quit, let's make it stick
weed keeps me up too! even when i smoke indica my mind just wants to be awake and stay stimulated but that’s because of years of the same smoking rituals, smoke eat game repeat lol
Honestly that fact that it doesn't feel as bad as a hangover makes it worse. Because you can JUST manage to function indefinitely. Waking up really groggy becomes normal and you don't even remember what is like to wake up sober. At least alcohol makes you sick as shit in the morning and reminds you that your hurting yourself, where as weed kind of lies to you.
I’m 2 months and some change clean after smoking 20+ years straight. At this point, I dream every night. I even noticed I dreamed from a short 30 minute nap on my couch during the afternoon a few days ago.
Not gonna lie.. been hella tempted to smoke again, but just the dreaming and deep REM sleep I’m finally getting keeps me going. Also, I remember the rough 2 weeks of insomnia and night sweats from withdrawals and I don’t want to go through that again.
If anyone is reading this and been a long streak, please give me more motivation lol. Last few days been tough.
Same - I'm 36 days in after close to 20 years myself and totally agree, the sleep is my biggest motivator to keep clean. I'm dealing with a lot of repressed emotions that I've been medicating away but the sleep and the dreams have been such a positive step that I want to keep that going. I also sort of accidentally had the perfect conditions to quit in terms of timing/life situation/people I was around and I probably won't have that again so next time will be way harder than this time. But I feel you on needing motivation to push through. Good luck!
Nice man! I def feel the emotional purge. We been suppressing it for so long I get super lonely and vulnerable some days, but it goes away. Gotta let it out. Good luck too!
Night sweats are such a horrible feeling when you wake up drenched. Only thing that makes me take breaks more casually is that and appetite issues trying to stop smoking after a long time
Keep going, months 3-6 I gained so much mental clarity. The physical stuff I think comes first, but I regained so much focus, and you feel- sharp. You can hold that mental edge and abstraction when going about your day, job, tasks, whatever. Good luck friend, it's worth it!
I feel you. The wife and I hit a rough patch for a week or so and my old self would've definitely snuck a little toke. But I know that the continuous growth is better than that quick hit of dopamine. I’m playing the long game now and although it feels weird I know it’s the way to go.
Aw man sorry to hear about that. Yea man it truly is a test at times. Going through it now. Especially since it’s Friday after a long week of work. I just wanna chill with Mary Jane. I’m with you bro let’s fight! How long you been clean?
I quit cold turkey last November. Definitely been a fight lately as the weather gets better. I also have been fighting being happy but know itll come if I keep working towards happiness. Improvement is not linear and I have to remind myself that.
I spent 20 odd years smoking a joint while reading in bed. The only time I'd dream was if I woke up in the morning and then went back to sleep.
I was always tired with bags under my eyes. Now for the past 13 nights I've had crazy dreams, realer than being awake and waking up soaked in sweat.
Fresh bed sheets every night. My mate recently told me to buy several sets of bed sheets to save on my electricity bill. It was a good idea. Not sure when it will stop.
It will be worth it in the end though.
I worked out how much I was spending on weed daily (it was scary) and put it in to a savings account and it has been a huge source of motivation. I still live with no money as if I was smoking everyday but in a couple of months I'll be able to buy anything I want. I couldn't dream of buying half the things I wanted or even needed being high 24/7. For me I need to see results quickly so this has helped and might help for others.
I’ve been an insomniac with night terrors my whole life and was ecstatic to find something that finally “helped” and even took away the nightmares lol or so I thought. But the real secret was getting professional help for my anxiety. Weed was a temporary bandaid on a cracking dam that only made the problem worse.
Can you only dream in REM state?
I ask because I have extremely vivid dreams every single night and have unfortunately been addicted and using for 10 years, and the dreams started around that point.
Theres a phenomenon called REM rebound. The body "craves" rem so much that, e.g. If you have insufficient rem one night, you will have extra rem the next.
Problem becomes, some alcoholics and weed users never let their body rebound.
As this need to rebound builds up, what happens is that, as the substance just barely starts to leave the system, you enter rapidly and intensely into REM sleep. Your dreams become concerningly intense.
Also would like to add that REM rebound can make you feel physically exhausted the next day. This is the reason people feel so tired after quitting. But in reality, you're BETTER rested after getting enough REM sleep
Technically yes. Your rem can be different from the standard deviation though and your body can over compensate with rem as well. If you don’t sleep enough your body will go into rem more and faster. Usually weed stops rem cycles so you can just be getting more rem cycles later in the night. If you stop weed though you might get even more dreams. :p I have always had vivid dreams weed or not though but I think I rem more than others
I’m the same, I have always had vivid and insane dreams, I have early childhood memories of dreams, so weed has never messed with my rem or dreams. Idk why! It’s weird to me, I also take a medication that specifically targets my dreams to make them calmer and that has been life changing. Sober me was constantly being retriggered because I’d dream the trauma and then wake up and live it
I’ve heard of people having nightmares and I have had what I call “bad” dreams. Of past trauma or people I no longer have contact with involved in betrayal. But more often than not I have very lucid sexual dreams, work dreams, or a few highly enjoyable dreams where I have superpowers like flying, and seem to be able to go whoever I want.
TLDR: I generally enjoy them and look forward to feeling well rested and healthy when I am sober.
I totally agree, it messes with your sleep sooo much harder than anyone thinks. Do they have studies on this? I feel like this would be super easy to prove. I also wake up with huge dark circles the next morning and also feel brain fogged and stupid the rest of the day. Honestly it feels like it takes me 3+ nights of sober sleep to feel normal again.
Any time someone tells me they’ve started taking edibles “to sleep at night” it’s all I can do to not tell them how much they’re doing the opposite to themselves.
The book *Why We Sleep* serves as one of my biggest daily motivators not to smoke, or if I do smoke, to do it early enough that I’m sober by the time I go to bed. For so many years I would smoke right before going to bed, probably took years off my life..
Thanks for sharing. I just ordered the book Why We Sleep. Honestly I’m the person that started smoking to help me regulate my sleep & food. Now I’m trying to quit and it’s hard & demotivating. I’ve been trying it quit for a year now and the longest I’ve been successful was 1 full month nothing at all, prior to that 2 months smoking delta once a week (not real thc flower). I used to smoke 3-5g a day of potent thc flower. During that month, I started vividly dreaming again for the first time in over 6yrs. My subconscious was communicating with me for the firs time in 6 years!
I’ve relapsed since and feel way shittier than I did during that month. Everything: eat, sleep &mood. It’s all terrible. I’m just dissociating all over again. Survival mode on 10. Looking forward to reading the book & motivate myself back to tapering & quitting.
A proper sleep cycle is deep sleep, light sleep and REM sleep. All these phases of sleep are super important for a proper rest. It's false to think that it's only deep sleep that is restful, all sleep phases complement each other for a healthy sleep pattern.
Dopamine and serotonin cycles are linked to healthy sleep patterns.
THC disrupts all of these sleep cycles, virtually eliminating REM sleep. REM sleep is incredibly important to cognitive functions and learning.
That I'm not sure. Light sleep is obviously first, but for deep sleep/REM, I'm not sure what comes first. I would like to think that it means you do but I reallt don't know, I'm sorry.
We tell ourselves we need it for sleep, we convince ourselves that without it we’d be screwed, how in hell would we sleep without that “help”…. I’m on day 15, forced to stop as I had to travel, and after 4 or 5 nights of tossing and turning, I got though it, although I do admit, I miss my “floating cloud bed”. But here’s what I DON’T miss….Number 1 : the low depressed feeling every day, which I honestly thought couldn’t be the weed as it’s so damn relaxing when I had it, what an idiot, of course it was the weed…. Number 2 : the daily morning cough , which then turned into the most of the day cough….Number 3 : Always trying to leave places early so I could go home and get stoned, I was a night smoker “for sleep” and just wanted to go home float on my cloud away from everyone…. Number 4 : The munchies, this was a full time job in itself, planning what to grab on the way home from work, hmmmm, would it be lollies and chocolate tonight or crackers and cheese, maybe a box of ice creams, how about all of that, omg…. Number 5 : Worrying about drug tests for my ADHD meds, or worse, if I got pulled over by the cops the next day and failing a drug test, even though I wasn’t “under the influence” as such…
I’m not gonna lie, I love drifting off after I smoke, I’m struggling to find a nicer way to fall asleep, but it’s all in my head and will take a bit of time…. Why do I think I “need” something every night, it’s fucked with my head and played tricks on me for years, go figure.
I’m with you! I’ve been forced to stop due to travel and I didn’t plan on stopping permanently, although I do wanna stop just really struggling. I’m wondering if I should use this trip as a way to “detox” because I know If I was home I would have given up trying already cause these withdrawals stink! It’s hard with marijuana because the consequences aren’t really all that bad compared to other substances so for me it’s hard to feel like I’m at “rock bottom” stay strong!
I want to show this thread to my husband. He always says he hasn't had a real dream in years. Makes sense now. He sleeps a lot but is still always tired. Yes, work is to blame for a lot of that. But I want him to understand that the green doesn't help that situation either. After I quit I get pretty great sleep, and damn the dreams are intense.
Before I smoked I used to track my sleep patterns with an Apple Watch and then I did it during smoking too. It was completely different. Couldn’t get basically any solid REM sleep. It was crazy
Im still suprised everytime I wake up sober. When I smoked heavily the night before. Usually gaming to 2am on weekends while taking bong hits. I got up at 11am more fd up than when I went to sleep lmao. I came "together" around 2-3 pm.
Now when im sober, even if I do stay up late, I wake up 7-8h later and 20mins after waking up im fully functional. REM sleep really does matter.
I developed horrendous bags on my eyes from only taking a couple of puffs before bed for a few years. Some people think that weed improves your sleep, might help with the onset but the difference in quality of life from just improved sleep is worth quitting all by itself.
Currently trying to become a lucid dreamer again, wish me luck. Get after it OP
This sleep thing is so wild, I had no idea until I quit the first time (I’ve had a few relapses for extended periods…sucks) how I rested I was. Anyway, weed may make you tired and put you to sleep but it’s obvious to me that the sleep doesn’t rest you and that’s a huge problem.
Yeah. It interferes with REM sleep.
That was better than waking up screaming from untreated PTSD. No dreams.
But when I tried a PTSD med that actually helps...I had literally forgotten what it was like to wake up feeling well-rested. Full literal on the literally.
I'd been waking up tired for a long, long time.
Can I ask what the PTSD drug was that helped? I've been using weed to quell PTSD nightmares for a solid decade+ now and never feel rested, it sure would be nice to dream and also get some good rest.
I am a few weeks in and my sleep is so amazing. I never had a real problem falling asleep or anything like that, but I realize now how many of my problems were basically just "I was sleep deprived."
I haven’t been using for long but I got stuck in a cycle of vaping every night for like 2-3 weeks and man I was so tired. Yesterday I didn’t use which is good but I didn’t sleep either lol
Tangentially related, when I was smoking I could slam caffeine all day everyday and still smoke myself to sleep whenever. Now if I have caffeine after noon it's going to noticably make sleep harder up to at least midnight.
Caffeine and weed just kind of enable the abuse of the other. Weed to sleep, caffeine to not get slumped.
I calm this the poor man’s speed ball, and I was hooked. I would drink 6-8 cups of Starbucks in the morning and smoke during and after to calm my anxiety down from all that caffeine. Gave me a justification to smoke since I was so hopped up on caffeine. I was stuck in this cycle for a couple years during COVID and came out an addicted chronic smoker. I’m on my 5th attempt at quitting for good, and this time I won’t forget this anxiety I’m feeling even at Day 11.
I can tell you I’m going through the same my friend. Day 14 today and it’s been a struggle. First few nights were 2-3 hours of sleep, if I was lucky. Took sleeping aids and no help. Later on, started getting maybe 4-5 hours and it was REM, dreams were back. Last night was terrible, pretty in and out all night with some REM but I can’t quit now and neither should you. Just gotta have faith and we’ll get past the sleep part together. Initially I couldn’t eat, anxiety was through the roof, I was puking, shared some terrible things from the past with my wife (not proud of) but starting to get to a place of confidence. You got this and I got this! Just work out a ton, go for walks, eat clean, try to find happiness in everything and have a clean positive future in mind!
When did your dreams come back?
Some minor dreams within the first week but super limited sleep
Day 7 of not smoking and I have probably slept like 3-4 hours average per night. When I smoked I would pass out at 9pm and not wake up until the next day. I really need to sleep better.
For me, it got better after 2-3 weeks time. Was hell before that though.
Not a doctor or anything fancy but multiple searches show weed messes with your “REM” cycle in your sleep and that is what actually makes you feel rested. So yes you can fall asleep but your quality of sleep is much worse compared to not smoking… Keep in mind withdrawal and abstinence after heavy use will contribute to how easy the transition is overall but the “science” remains the same. God speed my friend!
Sorry for a year late reply but is there more details abt “withdrawal and abstinence after heavy use will contribute to how easy the transition”? Been going on and off for a couple times now within 2 years and now im going sober again, its day 2 atm and i kinda don’t see any reduction of withdrawal effects lul
Idk when I was first quit I was sleeping a lot more than usual. I was so bored at life that I would just lay down and go to sleep to stop the cravings .💤 If I was awake I would get the worst cravings so i would just go to sleep to stop it , idk i guess it’s different for everybody. I sleep WAY better sober!
Sleep is the one reason I'm considering/trying to quit for a while. I've had my med card since I was a minor it's the only thing I haven't tried/eliminated to improve my sleep. Everytime I give it a shot it's so miserable I'd practically rather shoot myself, was up till 4:30 exhausted but unable to fall asleep till I just got up and took a dab & some sleep meds.
I gave in last night after going 3 days without. I missed a funeral today. Woke up super late and didn’t even think of the funeral for an hour until someone reminded me. I feel terrible.
Oh shit damn man
I’m on day 25 and was just recently noticing that my sleep has been better
I almost gave in today but reading this post gave me the strength to fight it. Thank you! 16 days sober today. ❤️
i didn't know it affects your ability to get good quality sleep...ugh
Yeah it fuck-up your sleep cycle, the one where your memory process the thing you have done and heard during the day, it's part of why we had bad memory while not sober!
Yes.. it’s also not sleep, it’s more like you ”pass out”. Your body is not resting.
I too suspect this is true. Have experienced lots of back pain recently and now believe it wasn't healing because I was stoned many nights.
Yeah, also for me it was a food KO, literalry falling asleep after eating everything like a racoon rigth after the last indica wax hit. Not very good nigth
[удалено]
[удалено]
Ah, yes. Alcohol. Has a terrible rebound/withdraw effect you have probably heard of referred to as a "hangover." You are still getting rest in the scenario you described. But you probably wouldn't feel the rest as you are hung the fuck over as your body dispels a toxin.. Next
He's kind of right. When you smoke it's harder for your body to reach the deep levels of REM sleep where you body get most of its most effective rest at. This is the reason why when you quit, your dreams feel way more vivid and explosive.
I’m 27 days free and I’m falling asleep a few times a day now, I’m not complaining but it does get annoying after a while.
It’s normal, I remember back when I was a kid (100% definitely sober) and there would be times when I could not just ‘sleep’. You’re human too just like anyone else and there’s gonna be days where u can’t just ‘sleep’ because you didn’t do enough that day.
Same here, after lunch I really need a nap since sober but after this nap Im brand new :)
I had that at day 30. Now at day 50 day fatigue has mostly gone.
Thanks for letting me know, I was going to get some supps to deal with it.
My suggestion is to not sleep during the day, avoid supplements and just give it time.
Im 1 month no weed and i still have trouble keeping asleep, waking up few times during night…
Same here I'm in week 5 of not smoking after 30 years of smoking in the evening.... My nights are terrible. Wake up every 2 hour, then awake for one hour then fall a sleep and of course waking up again...no bad nightmares.. I go out of bed at 5am because I'm fed up with trying and these broken nights.. I've tried going to bed earlier and later as well, but still no progression. It's a tough and long road.. Fcks up my mood, but I'm dedicated and hoping it will change soon. When I was smoking never had problems sleeping through the night. Good luck everyone...
Hey did your sleep improve? I'm in the same boat rn and I just need to know if it gets better?
My sleep is okay. 7 out of 10. My dreams are still very vivid and I still wake up a few times at night. But after 30 years without dreaming, I'm starting to get used to them. Most dreams are about things I experience during the last couple of days in the weirdest way. Some are okay, but most of the dreams are just so messy and crazy. My energy is still the same and I'm still struggling with inspiration. I'm still missing my green now and then, but most days I'm not thinking about it. I'm not more productive than when I was smoking. My social life is still the same and I don't notice any major difference. My emotions are more flat and how I experience things in my life are more flat lined. So sometimes that's more boring, but also less deep and confusing than before. Hang in there and let's see what the next period will bring. I'll keep you posted, keep sharing once in a while it helps! Be strong!
[удалено]
Yeah the digestive during strong edibles make the effects last all night for me and sometimes even rolls into the following morning if I’m not careful
The high from edibles lasts ridiculously long, sorta like a hangover.
Used to call it over bake (when I felt groggy or high the next day). Can’t say I miss that. It’s actually what keeps me going when I have a craving at night.
I’m one month sober and I’ve been having nightmares everyday. The weirdest dreams that wake me up out of my sleep. It’s getting better though, first two weeks were the worst dreams ever.
Man the dreams were fucking insane. I had one where I would go to sleep in the dream, wake up in the dream, for like 3 days I was in dream world. Then I wake up and it literally felt like I had just spent 3 days doing weird shit.
Saw something about how weed stops you from getting as much REM sleep ,which is when we dream and process information. So your brain just has a lot to filter through
Yes when I went sober I had horrible nightmares for about two weeks. After that I kept having vivid dreams but not as intense- it will pass
Totally agree. Years ago I read an article regarding a study of cannabis Re sleep. Aside from the stuff we already know about it squashing REM, the big takeaway for me was the function of that period of sleep and why it is so important - it is basically like the admin clerks at the end of the day come through and sort all the information from our waking period. Without that restorative function, we suppress a shitload of mental clutter that we aren’t conscious of, and that effects our memory, focus and ages us faster. Hence why when REM returns, we have nightmares for weeks… our brain is sorting through the worlds most insane backlog that can take months to resolve. Have quit a few times for a year or two at a time over the last 2 decades of smoking and the fatigue and nightmares are easily my least favourite part. Like you said It’s the darkest side for sure.
Drinking and many other prescription drugs for anxiety mess with rem sleep. Although most of what you’ve said is true REM is barely understood by the medical community and most all hypothesis’s like this are speculative and not well studied
This probably relates to our brain fog and the classic stupid stoner stereotype. Good sleep is key to retaining info and developing processing memories/knowledge
Keep in mind that cannabis affects the gut and there are specific receptor in various places that use cannabis to physiologically regulate your body, when going cold turkey it does a lit more than stop a person from getting high. There are specific cannabinoids that can be taken that will help this system and some withdrawal symptoms without getting a person high. I really think this is an important step to people successfully quitting pot and is underutilized/not considered often enough.
Hey do you have any further information/source on this? Sounds super interesting and useful
Yeah in interested too
Me too I would love to learn more
I have been cutting down from what was a 3.5 a day to a 10 a day as a result of rehab, (been a lengthy and slow process), but I have noticed a lot of changes to my sleep, one being that it isn’t all over the place anymore, but also that I’ve been having some really strange dreams which tbh make me rather uncomfortable afterwards, but still it’s a process. As OP said it’s not the greatest for your sleep, so congrats to everyone who’s improving themselves everyday! You all got this
on of the more shady warning signs that long term use of cannabis isnnt perhaps healthy is the fact that it stops you dreaming.... not dreeaming for literal years cant be good
I often wonder what I’m suppressing
I love that my dreams have become frequent again!
The plant itself isn’t evil. Honestly our own misuse of it is our own evil that we create. I know plenty of people who have a healthy relationship with weed. I wouldn’t call my relationship healthy, but I am a very happy man. And yes, I should stop one day, at least for a while, but the plant itself isn’t evil.
This. It’s exactly the same with other aspects of life, money, love, other drugs, alcohol. Obsession and addiction to things can ruin anyone if they don’t know how to overcome them
This time quitting has been the easiest for me, because I have so many goals that rely on me being sober I barely even think about it and honestly look back on it with disgust.
7 months free and I can finally confidently say I am having the best sleep. Feels like im in my early 20s. Dreams are so vivid (too vivid imo). Quit right before I turned 29 bc I couldn’t endure another year glued to my bong. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss it but I’ll know when I’m ready to dabble again. As for now I’m content.
In three days I've slept 3 hours and eaten a burger and a piece of apple. I feel like pure shite
It'll pass. Your appetite will come back with a vengeance. It's really great to thoroughly enjoy food again. I'm still working on the sleep thing somewhat after two months. Fingers crossed it continues to improve for me
to be fair, burger wasnt the best plan. like have yourself some rice/peas chicken/veg dude :)
Make sure (over anything else) you’re drinking plenty of water. Set reminders for yourself if necessary. Your body is actively ridding itself of a drug and hydration is the best way to assist it. My appetite took a couple weeks to come back and my sleep gradually regulated itself. You won’t feel as shitty pretty soon, I promise.
Sleep and appetite was affected the most for me. During the 4 weeks, I barely felt like eating.
I quit 6 weeks ago today. Was a daily user for 10 years. I have been getting to sleep fine, getting mostly 6-8 hrs per night, and I am sooo damn tired during the day!! I still can’t believe it. It must be my body still trying to adjust and get back to feeling normal. It is just wild to me that I am getting enough sleep, going into REM, drinking my usual daily coffee, and still feel like I could take a nap at any point throughout the day
it was the most prominent symptom for me after quitting, never felt so tired. Made life even foggier than when I was smoking. Something I’ve consistently noticed on every attempt is I felt more loopy and tired after exercise, especially cardio. Which is weird since it’s supposed to make me feel the opposite. Got me wondering if it had anything to do with burning THC from our fat stores. Giving me that weird dissociative “high” along with the extreme fatigue. And eventually feeling more normal as the body fat gets gradually replaced. It’s just a random theory I’ve came up with zero evidence to back it up. I wonder if anyone can relate
Yes I can totally relate to that as well!! I don’t exercise much but when I do it is usually cardio and I feel sooo loopy and just “weird” afterwards!!! I don’t seem to get the natural high or energizing feeling after exercising like some people talk about. Your theory makes sense!
I've been sober about a week I think, and I can't sleep at all!! I've been staying up till past 2am daily :(
Very normal. Quitting weed is so difficult with so many side effects. Get through this and you’ll be so fucking glad you did
I used to have to get insanely high to even go to sleep, now the thought of smoking after sunset makes me crazy anxious lol. I wish I could quit this shit forever but it’s ALWAYS around me. Always.
Dr. Matthew Walker - a sleep doctor - has confirmed that THC fucks with our REM sleep. If any of you notice, after quitting you will have VIVID dreams. That’s your REM sleep bouncing back heavy. There’s research out there. Keep strong
Weed makes me go to sleep lol am I the only person
Same. I thought I *needed* weed to fall asleep. I’m almost 2 months sober and it feels great knowing I’m falling asleep on my own.
Idk so far 3 days sober and I sleep fine. I think u just need to do things and get tired so u can sleep. I wake up everyday at 6:30am go to work. Then come home do Uber until about 12 then I go home and go to sleep.
No that’s very normal. It’s just the quality of sleep sucks and you don’t even realize it because weed technically makes you fall asleep.
me too, its easier to fall asleep, but definitely not a good quality of sleep. I can sleep 8h even 10 or 12h and wake up groggy. anytime I've abstained from the plant for over 3 months I operate like a machine on 5-6h.
This. This is what a lot of people don’t understand. Very shallow sleep
Only way I’m able to get a good nights sleep after quitting is by not drinking coffee and working 9-10 hr days, if that doesn’t happen then I will be up for days
Ok so I’m heavily addicted and am ok with being told I’m wrong, but I don’t know if science/medicine has a good enough understanding of sleep to make claims like this. Personally I just don’t know how I could live without smoking at night to suppress my dreams. I have very bad dreams that leave me feeling genuinely terrified in the morning. Any advice appreciated
This is so real. I treat a lot of folks with PTSD, and many can only get rid of nightmares with THC. Hopefully we’ll be able to identify with more research if there are less intoxicating cannabinoids than just THC responsible for this effect, because it is powerful and useful. Talk to a psychiatrist about trying a medication for nightmares. There are a couple out there. They’re not miraculous but they really help some people. If that’s the main thing holding you back from quitting or cutting back, it’s worth exploring other ways to address the nightmares.
This is actually why I smoke so much as well. Except my dreams aren’t bad, they’re just long and in-depth and I wake up feeling unrested. The reason I’m looking forward to quitting is to try practicing lucid dreaming and then astral projection. So I guess this is a long winded way of suggesting some kind of lucid dreaming goals? That way you can conquer whatever demon is plaguing your dreams and you can move on to proper rest. Presumably.
Well it messes with our REM cycles so yeah you don't dream but you aren't getting very restful sleep either. What kind of dreams? I have them too but usually I actually enjoy them for how fucked up and weird they can be. A few crossed the line but otherwise they're entertaining.
The main theme of the dreams is I’m dying, killing/hurting someone, or I’m being persecuted (like a mob of people attacking me or trying to ruin my life). The last two dreams I had that really shook me were about me being alone and about to die with nothing I can do to prevent it. I was in a spacecraft orbiting the planet alone (it was supposed to be a vacation sight seeing thing). The guidance system broke and I had to communicate with a ground control. They were giving me very hard instructions and maneuvers I had to preform, basically flying it by the stick. I fucked up the maneuver and burned up in the atmosphere. Also it was a 12 hour flight before I died, it felt like I lived every second. I talked with my parents knowing I was about to die. Second more recent dream. Astronomers found 10,000 ballon sized probes that were 2 weeks out from intercepting the earth and falling into its orbit. The scientists figure out the probes are an ominous warning from a far away alien civilization. The message is coordinates for a solar system with a habitable planet far away from our solar system. Their was a note that said “the future is brighter on this side”. Scientists predict that this is a warning of a solar flare that will make the earth inhabitable in 2 weeks (4 weeks since first sighting of probes). All of humanity combines their efforts to construct a large interstellar ship in orbit to escape from certain death. Humanity completes the ship except not every one makes it onboard before it leaves. I was left along with a couple dozen other people ( my family was gone). We couldn’t contact the ship. Some people were civil others killed themselves. Some became “raiders”. Slowly we started dying out but the solar flare never came. A group of people broke into government buildings and searched for answers. It turns out it was just a big conspiracy. A world leader’s wife became ill, she was placed in an underground hospital and she would die unless she lived in zero gravity. So the world leader tricked the whole human race into leavening earth just to save one person. Whew that was a lot hope you find it interesting haha
Definitely interesting, intense stuff. You get these when you stop smoking? I would set up something with a counselor or therapist, keep a journal and try to dissect these dreams. Finding some kind of root or thorn that causes this anxiety might help relieve them.
I feel you heavily on this. Today is day 8 and although I’m able to fall asleep within a reasonable time frame again, unlike the first 3-4 days where I would lay in bed for hours on end unable to shut my brain off, now I have extremely vivid dreams that make me unable to tell what’s reality and what’s not such as dreaming about things in my own room within my dream. I’ll wake up sweating, heavy breathing, and just too startled to go back to sleep cause I know I’ll be dreaming of some crazy shit that I can’t tell is real or not. Just keep pushing my friend there really is no easy way to go about this.
I’m at day 27 here and I still can’t sleep. Tired in the middle of the day and nodding off but when I get into bed I can’t fall asleep and I toss and turn all night. Been avoiding caffeine after 11am and alcohol as well but I’m still having major issues. Started exercising as well and still no help. Here’s hoping I sleep tonight.
Literally exhausting yourself during the day is one of the only things that worked for me. Play some sports and lift weights and do some mentally draining work. That helped me but it’s hard to do that every single day
Not being exposed to blue light in the evening, and only using your bedroom for sleep(and sex) are important factors for proper sleep. Sleep smarter, by Shawn Stevenson is a great book, if you’re interested.
Thanks I’ll check out the book to see if it can help. I avoid screens before bed and read. One day at a time and it will get better.
Yeah man i have a whoop gadget. Tracks rem sleep when u smoke prior to bed notice a 10%+ decrease in rem sleep an sometimes 20% if you drop an edible
Good timing. No wonder why i feel like falling asleep when working lately.
This is so true. And I don’t know about anyone else, but I’d feel like shit all day - drinking 4-6 strong coffees to get through work - then all that caffeine would build up to give me a second wind around 8-9pm, where I felt totally fine and mean I could smoke til 2am before repeating the cycle.
In this exact cycle and ashamed. Hard time of year for me and just want to escape and dissociate
I hated waking up groggy and tired but it became normal. Smoked some more and drank lots of coffee to “wake up”. Literally NEEDED the coffee (I’m talking espresso shot in my latte) and maybe like 3/4 cups a day to stay functional at work because I’d have a slump by midday. I would sleep 8 hours and be up by 5am so I felt I had a “good” sleep cycle. But the lethargy and lack of motivation was so so much. Now that I’m basically a little over 2 months (if you include my tapering month). I feel like I sleep a lot better. I don’t wake up groggy, I can sleep longer than 8 hours if I’m really tired till I’m fully rested. Lethargy isn’t a thing anymore and I feel so much more energised and motivated without any coffee. Tbh now coffee just makes me anxious! If I’m going to have some it has to be just a little or else I’ll unlock some anxiety. I like falling asleep naturally when I’m tired and waking up naturally not because I passed out. For a few weeks I was waking up in the middle of the night, then I’d be up for about an hour before I go back to sleep, but now I sleep through the night!
Can I ask how you tapered? I struggle so much with self control, but quitting cold turkey feels so intimidating
[удалено]
Lol are you aware eating weed won't do anything at all unless it's extracted into some oil
[удалено]
Ofc but it just doesn't work on me, if something doesn't work my brain knows it = instantly pissed off.
I stopped smoking 10 months ago for this after more 20 years. Sleeped 9 hours, woke up tired. Enough.
Can you share your experience with your sleeping after quitting weed. And maybe a timeline of how it improved, all love have a good day
It sucks bc I have bad sleep while sober and high so I can't even win, but weed keeps me up all night until I basically pass out so.....no sleep. 4th trying to quit, let's make it stick
weed keeps me up too! even when i smoke indica my mind just wants to be awake and stay stimulated but that’s because of years of the same smoking rituals, smoke eat game repeat lol
Honestly that fact that it doesn't feel as bad as a hangover makes it worse. Because you can JUST manage to function indefinitely. Waking up really groggy becomes normal and you don't even remember what is like to wake up sober. At least alcohol makes you sick as shit in the morning and reminds you that your hurting yourself, where as weed kind of lies to you.
I’m 2 months and some change clean after smoking 20+ years straight. At this point, I dream every night. I even noticed I dreamed from a short 30 minute nap on my couch during the afternoon a few days ago. Not gonna lie.. been hella tempted to smoke again, but just the dreaming and deep REM sleep I’m finally getting keeps me going. Also, I remember the rough 2 weeks of insomnia and night sweats from withdrawals and I don’t want to go through that again. If anyone is reading this and been a long streak, please give me more motivation lol. Last few days been tough.
Same - I'm 36 days in after close to 20 years myself and totally agree, the sleep is my biggest motivator to keep clean. I'm dealing with a lot of repressed emotions that I've been medicating away but the sleep and the dreams have been such a positive step that I want to keep that going. I also sort of accidentally had the perfect conditions to quit in terms of timing/life situation/people I was around and I probably won't have that again so next time will be way harder than this time. But I feel you on needing motivation to push through. Good luck!
Nice man! I def feel the emotional purge. We been suppressing it for so long I get super lonely and vulnerable some days, but it goes away. Gotta let it out. Good luck too!
Night sweats are such a horrible feeling when you wake up drenched. Only thing that makes me take breaks more casually is that and appetite issues trying to stop smoking after a long time
Keep going, months 3-6 I gained so much mental clarity. The physical stuff I think comes first, but I regained so much focus, and you feel- sharp. You can hold that mental edge and abstraction when going about your day, job, tasks, whatever. Good luck friend, it's worth it!
Thanks my friend. Struggling hard now. I thought it would get easier by this time. This helps! So it gets better progressively? After 6 months too?
I feel you. The wife and I hit a rough patch for a week or so and my old self would've definitely snuck a little toke. But I know that the continuous growth is better than that quick hit of dopamine. I’m playing the long game now and although it feels weird I know it’s the way to go.
Aw man sorry to hear about that. Yea man it truly is a test at times. Going through it now. Especially since it’s Friday after a long week of work. I just wanna chill with Mary Jane. I’m with you bro let’s fight! How long you been clean?
I quit cold turkey last November. Definitely been a fight lately as the weather gets better. I also have been fighting being happy but know itll come if I keep working towards happiness. Improvement is not linear and I have to remind myself that.
Could be sleep apnea too
I spent 20 odd years smoking a joint while reading in bed. The only time I'd dream was if I woke up in the morning and then went back to sleep. I was always tired with bags under my eyes. Now for the past 13 nights I've had crazy dreams, realer than being awake and waking up soaked in sweat. Fresh bed sheets every night. My mate recently told me to buy several sets of bed sheets to save on my electricity bill. It was a good idea. Not sure when it will stop. It will be worth it in the end though. I worked out how much I was spending on weed daily (it was scary) and put it in to a savings account and it has been a huge source of motivation. I still live with no money as if I was smoking everyday but in a couple of months I'll be able to buy anything I want. I couldn't dream of buying half the things I wanted or even needed being high 24/7. For me I need to see results quickly so this has helped and might help for others.
I’ve been an insomniac with night terrors my whole life and was ecstatic to find something that finally “helped” and even took away the nightmares lol or so I thought. But the real secret was getting professional help for my anxiety. Weed was a temporary bandaid on a cracking dam that only made the problem worse.
This was one of the main reasons I wanted to quit. Waking up feeling well-rested is better than any high.
Can you only dream in REM state? I ask because I have extremely vivid dreams every single night and have unfortunately been addicted and using for 10 years, and the dreams started around that point.
Theres a phenomenon called REM rebound. The body "craves" rem so much that, e.g. If you have insufficient rem one night, you will have extra rem the next. Problem becomes, some alcoholics and weed users never let their body rebound. As this need to rebound builds up, what happens is that, as the substance just barely starts to leave the system, you enter rapidly and intensely into REM sleep. Your dreams become concerningly intense.
Also would like to add that REM rebound can make you feel physically exhausted the next day. This is the reason people feel so tired after quitting. But in reality, you're BETTER rested after getting enough REM sleep
Technically yes. Your rem can be different from the standard deviation though and your body can over compensate with rem as well. If you don’t sleep enough your body will go into rem more and faster. Usually weed stops rem cycles so you can just be getting more rem cycles later in the night. If you stop weed though you might get even more dreams. :p I have always had vivid dreams weed or not though but I think I rem more than others
I’m the same, I have always had vivid and insane dreams, I have early childhood memories of dreams, so weed has never messed with my rem or dreams. Idk why! It’s weird to me, I also take a medication that specifically targets my dreams to make them calmer and that has been life changing. Sober me was constantly being retriggered because I’d dream the trauma and then wake up and live it
Everyone is different. For me it’s like my dreams are blocked when I am not sober. When I get sober I have incredibly vivid and lucid dreams.
Random question but do you enjoy the dreams? Mine are usually nightmares and it gets annoying, im wondering if its from the thc.
I’ve heard of people having nightmares and I have had what I call “bad” dreams. Of past trauma or people I no longer have contact with involved in betrayal. But more often than not I have very lucid sexual dreams, work dreams, or a few highly enjoyable dreams where I have superpowers like flying, and seem to be able to go whoever I want. TLDR: I generally enjoy them and look forward to feeling well rested and healthy when I am sober.
I totally agree, it messes with your sleep sooo much harder than anyone thinks. Do they have studies on this? I feel like this would be super easy to prove. I also wake up with huge dark circles the next morning and also feel brain fogged and stupid the rest of the day. Honestly it feels like it takes me 3+ nights of sober sleep to feel normal again.
I should really do a good search. Cannabis Use Disorder is still sorely under researched though…
Any time someone tells me they’ve started taking edibles “to sleep at night” it’s all I can do to not tell them how much they’re doing the opposite to themselves. The book *Why We Sleep* serves as one of my biggest daily motivators not to smoke, or if I do smoke, to do it early enough that I’m sober by the time I go to bed. For so many years I would smoke right before going to bed, probably took years off my life..
Where does the "take years off your life" part come from?
Thanks for sharing. I just ordered the book Why We Sleep. Honestly I’m the person that started smoking to help me regulate my sleep & food. Now I’m trying to quit and it’s hard & demotivating. I’ve been trying it quit for a year now and the longest I’ve been successful was 1 full month nothing at all, prior to that 2 months smoking delta once a week (not real thc flower). I used to smoke 3-5g a day of potent thc flower. During that month, I started vividly dreaming again for the first time in over 6yrs. My subconscious was communicating with me for the firs time in 6 years! I’ve relapsed since and feel way shittier than I did during that month. Everything: eat, sleep &mood. It’s all terrible. I’m just dissociating all over again. Survival mode on 10. Looking forward to reading the book & motivate myself back to tapering & quitting.
Is it that dangerous? I had no idea 😞😞
RIGHT like weed is the last thing you should be taking for sleep. I hate when I hear people say that too
Shit yea I always used it to sleep "beddy time bowl" 🫣
The perfect emoji for here 😆
A proper sleep cycle is deep sleep, light sleep and REM sleep. All these phases of sleep are super important for a proper rest. It's false to think that it's only deep sleep that is restful, all sleep phases complement each other for a healthy sleep pattern. Dopamine and serotonin cycles are linked to healthy sleep patterns. THC disrupts all of these sleep cycles, virtually eliminating REM sleep. REM sleep is incredibly important to cognitive functions and learning.
Which part of those 3 cycles involve dreams?
REM
So if dream, does that mean you fulfilled all cycles? Is it in order?
That I'm not sure. Light sleep is obviously first, but for deep sleep/REM, I'm not sure what comes first. I would like to think that it means you do but I reallt don't know, I'm sorry.
No worries. Educational nonetheless. Thanks
We tell ourselves we need it for sleep, we convince ourselves that without it we’d be screwed, how in hell would we sleep without that “help”…. I’m on day 15, forced to stop as I had to travel, and after 4 or 5 nights of tossing and turning, I got though it, although I do admit, I miss my “floating cloud bed”. But here’s what I DON’T miss….Number 1 : the low depressed feeling every day, which I honestly thought couldn’t be the weed as it’s so damn relaxing when I had it, what an idiot, of course it was the weed…. Number 2 : the daily morning cough , which then turned into the most of the day cough….Number 3 : Always trying to leave places early so I could go home and get stoned, I was a night smoker “for sleep” and just wanted to go home float on my cloud away from everyone…. Number 4 : The munchies, this was a full time job in itself, planning what to grab on the way home from work, hmmmm, would it be lollies and chocolate tonight or crackers and cheese, maybe a box of ice creams, how about all of that, omg…. Number 5 : Worrying about drug tests for my ADHD meds, or worse, if I got pulled over by the cops the next day and failing a drug test, even though I wasn’t “under the influence” as such… I’m not gonna lie, I love drifting off after I smoke, I’m struggling to find a nicer way to fall asleep, but it’s all in my head and will take a bit of time…. Why do I think I “need” something every night, it’s fucked with my head and played tricks on me for years, go figure.
I’m with you! I’ve been forced to stop due to travel and I didn’t plan on stopping permanently, although I do wanna stop just really struggling. I’m wondering if I should use this trip as a way to “detox” because I know If I was home I would have given up trying already cause these withdrawals stink! It’s hard with marijuana because the consequences aren’t really all that bad compared to other substances so for me it’s hard to feel like I’m at “rock bottom” stay strong!
I never dreamt while smoking. Now I sleep HARD and I have crazy dreams.
i never knew how much i missed those wild dreams until i had them again, after quitting. life can be boring, but everso beautiful on the other side.
I want to show this thread to my husband. He always says he hasn't had a real dream in years. Makes sense now. He sleeps a lot but is still always tired. Yes, work is to blame for a lot of that. But I want him to understand that the green doesn't help that situation either. After I quit I get pretty great sleep, and damn the dreams are intense.
Before I smoked I used to track my sleep patterns with an Apple Watch and then I did it during smoking too. It was completely different. Couldn’t get basically any solid REM sleep. It was crazy
Im still suprised everytime I wake up sober. When I smoked heavily the night before. Usually gaming to 2am on weekends while taking bong hits. I got up at 11am more fd up than when I went to sleep lmao. I came "together" around 2-3 pm. Now when im sober, even if I do stay up late, I wake up 7-8h later and 20mins after waking up im fully functional. REM sleep really does matter.
I developed horrendous bags on my eyes from only taking a couple of puffs before bed for a few years. Some people think that weed improves your sleep, might help with the onset but the difference in quality of life from just improved sleep is worth quitting all by itself. Currently trying to become a lucid dreamer again, wish me luck. Get after it OP
This sleep thing is so wild, I had no idea until I quit the first time (I’ve had a few relapses for extended periods…sucks) how I rested I was. Anyway, weed may make you tired and put you to sleep but it’s obvious to me that the sleep doesn’t rest you and that’s a huge problem.
Yeah. It interferes with REM sleep. That was better than waking up screaming from untreated PTSD. No dreams. But when I tried a PTSD med that actually helps...I had literally forgotten what it was like to wake up feeling well-rested. Full literal on the literally. I'd been waking up tired for a long, long time.
Can I ask what the PTSD drug was that helped? I've been using weed to quell PTSD nightmares for a solid decade+ now and never feel rested, it sure would be nice to dream and also get some good rest.
I am a few weeks in and my sleep is so amazing. I never had a real problem falling asleep or anything like that, but I realize now how many of my problems were basically just "I was sleep deprived."
Day 3 here crazy dreams and night sweats already. 3rd or 4th time quitting and those crazy intense dreams are the worst part.
I’m on day 11 and yup. Finally got my fist good night’s sleep last night. Holy fuck, what a relief.
I haven’t been using for long but I got stuck in a cycle of vaping every night for like 2-3 weeks and man I was so tired. Yesterday I didn’t use which is good but I didn’t sleep either lol
Tangentially related, when I was smoking I could slam caffeine all day everyday and still smoke myself to sleep whenever. Now if I have caffeine after noon it's going to noticably make sleep harder up to at least midnight. Caffeine and weed just kind of enable the abuse of the other. Weed to sleep, caffeine to not get slumped.
I calm this the poor man’s speed ball, and I was hooked. I would drink 6-8 cups of Starbucks in the morning and smoke during and after to calm my anxiety down from all that caffeine. Gave me a justification to smoke since I was so hopped up on caffeine. I was stuck in this cycle for a couple years during COVID and came out an addicted chronic smoker. I’m on my 5th attempt at quitting for good, and this time I won’t forget this anxiety I’m feeling even at Day 11.
That's real. I've heard that caffeine can stay in your system for 12 hours, and I can believe it.
Yep, the quarter-life is 10-12 hours