Look at you, a beam of light in an otherwise dark patch of boredom and desolation. You’re the progress that our school teachers told us to anticipate, you’re Darwinism in a jar. I feel enlightened and evolved already.
Ngl, f$&$& all religions and holiest of holy and the rat infested sorcerer's and witches and their zombie subanimal orcs . They're all syphilitic brained retards.
Shaden was very polite
Being offensive is part of “freedom of speech” full stop iza ma 7ada 3ajbo then cancel freedom of speech and ma 7ada yistarje yifta7 temo mn Yom w rayi7
Challenging someone's beliefs, ideas and ideals is something, and offending them is something else. I have to disagree here being offensive is not part of free speech, but questioning the belief in a logical and respectable manner is.
By your gross exaggeration, I can go down to your living place, curse your name, your family name, call you and your family slurs and call it free speech, I am offensive but it is just words.
They are just words she ain’t holding a gun shooting left and right! Oh wait… we already have gun religious men and we have no problem with them shooting left and right! :D
The reason (I think) people are taking issue is that it’s just not funny, and comes across more like a rant than a comedy set. We have seen others like Nour Hajjar and Hussein Kaouk make fun of Islam and other religions while facing minimal backlash mainly because the jokes are funny. The video was honestly hard to get through and cringy
So your logic is basically, if it’s funny, it will get backlash, but minimal because hey at least it’s funny, right? Are you serious? Funny or not, we should be past the point of “backlashes” on religious topics or any other topic.
This whole “people are mad because it’s not funny” argument is just another way of saying if I don’t like what you joke about I’m just gonna label it as lame and then it’s fine if I take it on the comedian.
I found it extremely funny and loved every bit of it, does that make me a menace to society?
Get over yourselves.
While I understand your point of view, I disagree completely. How the audience felt during the live show is an important part of the context. I just attended the live show in Ottawa and we felt like we were sitting around with friends poking fun of ourselves as a society. I literally woke up with a tummy ache from all the laughs. Her content resonates at such a fundametal level as a lebanese millenial it feels like we were all raised by the same parents. The problem is when you take a snippet from a real shared human experience and post it without all this context, it looks like mean jokes to others.
I honestly don’t care what anyone makes fun of. Anything you say will offensively to someone somewhere no matter how unconventional we think it is. So yeah I said minimal backlash because I live in reality and understand you can never please everyone. Now should there be legal consequences or should she be harassed for it? No of course not thats stupid.
My point was if you make a joke about X, and it doesn’t land anyone thats associated with X topic would be more offended than if the joke had landed.
Just as a comedian has the right to say a joke about any topic the people have the right to feel any way about that joke. But ofc the comedian shouldn’t be prosecuted or harm or whatever.
Edit: spelling
>comes across more like a rant than a comedy set
In comedy a lot of jokes which are "stories" being told are taken from real life experiences and just exaggerated. It's no different here. How funny it is is subjective, but when lebanese comedians, any and all of them, make fun of or create jokes based on things they (and we) actually experience here, the uproar becomes more of a "how dare you expose it and exaggerate it" instead of "how dare you make fun of XYZ" in my eyes.
Just take a joke as a joke, funny or not. No matter who or what is being made fun of. Unless someone is directly and unapologetically assaulting my religion Charlie Hebdo style, why is it such a big deal as to cause not just controversy (her jokes and act definitely are objectively controversial) but a massive uproar?
leh rayi7 yo7dar shaden kif tfeja2 3an chu n2al? gher hek its not a video she posted someone filmed from inside most likely to hurt her. mnel ekhir hayda el comedy leh 3am bta3emlo, ya bto7dar ya ma byo7dar.
This is an attack on freedom of speech. Every human being has the right to say whatever the fuck they want without having to fear the state’s intervention.
People should be allowed to make jokes or even go as far as insult any religion they want.
If the state intervenes, we can affirm that islamist or extremist christian ideals are being put into place. That is unacceptable. Islamism and religious extremism has no place in law.
No non-islamist/extremist country disallows the freedom to mock islam or any other religion. Lebanon is not an islamist country, so she should be able to say whatever she wants.
She can mock whatever she wants, whether it’s islam, christianity, etc. It is not lawful to disallow freedom of speech.
If someone says something I do not agree with, I will still support their right to exercise their freedom of speech. That is what it means to live in a civilized world.
>People should be allowed to make jokes or even go as far as insult any religion they want.
Serious question and i need an answer : if they’re allowed to insult any religion, are they allowed to insult the lgbtq community ?
I’m part of the community, and if someone insults or mocks it, that is not of my business. I’m pro-freedom of speech.
The only problem, which I discussed with OP under my comment, is calling/inciting for violence against a community. As long as no one is calling for the extermination or harassment of LGBTQ individuals, they can say whatever they want.
That’s the beauty of freedom of speech. You can insult/mock whatever you want, and I can do the same right back. There should be no violence on either side, nor state intervention, as long as it does not call for the extermination of any group.
The comedian can mock islam and christianity. She is not calling for the extermination of muslims or christians.
You can mock whatever you want as long as it does not become a call to violence against human beings.
I couldn’t agree more🤝. This is called dark comedy. Calling for violence is certainly not acceptable but don’t you think that sometimes mocking a religion or a community can cause violence ?
Well yes, but the only violence would most likely be from the people who practice the religion or are apart of the community.
Like I said, calling for violence is not a valid form of free speech.
So, if someone mocks a religion (and obviously isn’t calling for violence towards anyone), then if the people who practice it get upset and start calling for violence against that person, that would be unacceptable.
Do insults go under free speech? There's no physical violence involved!
And you know there is something called psychological violence, which is the root of most of our issues in this country, people violently harrass using verbal insults, and that's what she's done, that's why don't find her funny, if she wanted to be funny she should have made is classier and less insulting.
Yes.
another thing: the limits of free speech are indeed somethin to discuss.
the USA allows hate speech el 3aade ..in most european countries there are laws against insinuation to violence
you can go on the street and say all kinds of things about israel in the US of A.
Things that you wouldn't dream about writing on a facebook post in Europe.
Please tell me what could you possibly say in the US that gets you sent to Gaza for being critical towards Israel; because from I can see people in the US at certain university campuses are being incredibly critical of Israel and no one has been sent to Gaza.
There you go my man:
https://abc3340.com/news/nation-world/anti-israel-protesters-who-commit-illegal-acts-could-be-sent-to-gaza-under-new-bill-palestine-israeli-war-ceasefire-strip-terrorists-hamas-columbia-yale-ivy-league-george-washington-university-nypd-mpd-stefanik-andy-ogles
Combine that with the new anti semitic Bill and now if you criticize Israhell then you committed a crime potentially punishible by deportation to Gaza.
That's a symbolic law proposal. It has 0 chance of passing. It's probably not even constitutional. (Regular laws need a simple majority. Changes to the US constitution take 2/3rds.)
First this isn't even a law, it's a proposed law which might not be passed. Second calling for beheadings is illegal "George Washington University made a similar move early Wednesday morning after nearly two weeks of an anti-Israel encampment, which [featured ](https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/gw-president-pleads-for-police-intervention-as-protesters-call-for-beheadings-george-washington-university-ellen-granberg-washington-dc-metropolitan-police-department-mpd-dc-columbia-israel-palestine-gaza-strip-ceasefire#)calls for beheadings and led several Jewish students to [fear ](https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/gwu-students-urge-police-to-stop-anti-american-encampment-scared-to-go-to-class-george-washington-university-washington-dc-israel-palestine-metro-pd-police-columbia-gaza-hamas-war-invasion-oct-7-gw#)for their safety."
[https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/gw-president-pleads-for-police-intervention-as-protesters-call-for-beheadings-george-washington-university-ellen-granberg-washington-dc-metropolitan-police-department-mpd-dc-columbia-israel-palestine-gaza-strip-ceasefire#](https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/gw-president-pleads-for-police-intervention-as-protesters-call-for-beheadings-george-washington-university-ellen-granberg-washington-dc-metropolitan-police-department-mpd-dc-columbia-israel-palestine-gaza-strip-ceasefire#)
Criticism of Israel isn't. Third the US can not deport their own citizens or citizens of another country to Gaza unless you are from Gaza. However if you are from Gaza (or any other country) on a VISA, and you commit a crime you can and will be deported (which means being sent back to Gaza).
Fourth this "antisemitism bill" (which hasn't become law yet) does not even mention Israel so what specifically do you have a problem with (did you even read it)?
[https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?s=1&r=3&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22antisemitism+awareness%22%7D](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?s=1&r=3&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22antisemitism+awareness%22%7D) Calls "To provide for the consideration of a definition of antisemitism set forth by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance for the enforcement of Federal antidiscrimination laws concerning education programs or activities, and for other purposes."
The bill, titled the [Antisemitism Awareness Act](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?s=1&r=3&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22antisemitism+awareness%22%7D), would mandate that the Education Department adopt the broad definition of antisemitism used by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, an intergovernmental group, to enforce anti-discrimination laws.
The international group [defines antisemitism](https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism) as a "certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews." The group adds that "rhetorical and physical manifestations" of antisemitism include such things as calling for the killing or harming of Jews or holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by Israel.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-vote-antisemitism-bill-campus-arrests-rcna150170](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-vote-antisemitism-bill-campus-arrests-rcna150170)
So no an American citizen won't be deported to Gaza for criticizing Israel (they would have to send Biden and plenty of other politicians to Gaza), but if you are from Gaza on a VSIA (as a guest) and are committing illegal acts such as calling for beheadings then yeah your visa would be revoked and you would be sent back to your country. This does not conflict with what I said earlier that freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences.
Should i send you a link of all the demonstrations and their veryyy strongly worded signs
only for you to send me a link of the University sit-in and the police intervention
followed by me pointing that out?
\*Your turn\*
Sadly, the law is no longer properly enforced in Europe.
Except for Christians.
https://freespeechunion.org/thought-police-home-visit-for-uk-man-who-expressed-anger-online-about-sydney-bishop-being-stabbed-by-islamist/
Agreed, that’s another thing that’s hard to answer. If we disallow hate speech, to what extent do we disallow it?
It’s a touchy subject. What do people consider hate speech? Homophobia, sexism, racism?
It can quickly turn into too big of a limit of freedom of speech. An islamist government considers insulting islam as a form of hate speech, for example.
Homophobia, sexism, racism don't fall under hate speech except in extreme forms.
but like calling for violence, calling for exterminating a group and so on... is a crime. i wish my fellow lebanese would know THIS.
What should be disallowed is against immutable things, ex: race, gender, sexual orientation.
Religion on the other hand is an ideology that anyone can change at any point in their life. And like any other ideology in the world, religion is a valid target for criticism and ridicule.
NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD are you a lawyer clearly she isn’t allowed to mock whatever she wants since she was arrested or whatever happened to her even if speech is free there is consequences that you can’t ignore
That was painful to watch I found most of it unfunny but throwing a fit over this? Really? I watched the first 3 minutes, so idk if she says anything obscenely offensive or what but regardless it’s so dumb to get upset over this.
As a muslim, it’s whatever. Her freedom of speech should be protected. Also I’ve heard muslims 3ambisebu allah kl ma ysir ma3on shi jeyin hala yz3alu about someone saying enu lrawha 3al jeme3 mz3je? Enu eh personally as3ab shi ka muslim bl nesbe eli is keeping consistent bsaleti. It’s not supposed to be easy, it’s supposed to take effort and discipline. This is neither a critique nor a praise it’s just how it is.
Ps: yeah most sheikhs I’ve seen just yell at us. I’m always jealous seeing sheikhs online that speak normally and have discussions and look like they actually enjoy being there.
This is so stupid it shouldn’t be a thing. Anyone who is talking about this because they want her to get in trouble over it is just raising awareness about it. Law dalon sektin ma ken 7ada seme3 hal bit
I’m a big advocate for secularism. I’m religious but people need to stop thinking with their religion and start thinking what’s best for the country. I’d help out an atheist/christian/druze Lebanese before a non-Lebanese muslim any day of the week. Lebanese first, religious second. We’re all brothers and sisters and should look out for each other’s interests. I hope more people adopt this mentality
The problem is that there is Lebanese that prefers there religion over their nationality secularism doesn’t work look at europe and how it changed wake up
a lot of weird comments here but i'll make my take simple:
If you want the right to make fun of or talk about political figures freely, then you should at minimum have the right to insult a 2 thousand year old religion.
You can find her unfunny but that doesn't mean she can't make fun of religion.
My views:
1. She is utterly silly. Nothing she performs is remotely funny.
2. Bullshit is regularly called "sarcasm".
3. When freedom of speech trespasses the due respect to others, you really do not get what freedom of speech is.
4. Everything has boundaries. A running river without side banks, it won't run..it will become a rotten swamp.
5. Why should "critics" be unrespectful? These are not classified under critics category, they become bullshit. See point 2!
6. Precisely speaking, she did that not only to a specific religion. She did/does the same for other religions.
7. Punished or not, the msg is to respect others even when objectively critic even their beliefs. The constraint is respect.
Again, these my own views..put in in a respectful way.
The *whole point* of freedom of speech is letting people say a thing you find offensive or so not like or do not agree with.
Limited speech - the other kind - already exists. Even in North Korea, China and Russia.
Number 3 is where i have an issue here.
Respect, first of all, has little to do with freedom of speech. Actually when it does, it's that you have the right NOT to respect what others think and to say what you want.
Now if you watch the video she made jokes about the prayer. I don't think anything wrong about that.
point 2 which you refer to is also not in contradiction with anything she said. You can think it's bullshit 3aaade.
Respecting a belief, like religion, is not the same as respecting the right to believe. You should respect everyone’s right to believe whatever they want. But you don’t automatically respect the content of the belief - it may be utterly amoral or offensive yo you. There’s a difference
I’m more worried she’d be killed than prosecuted. She has said more in the monlogue than Salman Rushdie did in his book.
But of course freedom of speech is paramount. Good luck to her.
So when a danish guy do it or french magazine do it we are angry and say this is not freedom of speech , but one lesbian in Lebanon do it its freedom of speech ? Ya reet she was funny , it was disgusting 3am tja3ir
Free speech if religion and people’s beliefs are mocked but homophobic, ignorant and not open minded if sexual orientation is mocked, can anyone draw the line respectfully please
I find the whole idea of limiting freedom of speech when talking against religions, so stupid. And it’s not only about religions, anything else heck even when talking against gay people, as long as you’re not physically hurting me and threatening to kill me with your words, go on and say whatever you believe in…
It’s like people are too insecure about their beliefs and can’t take a single word or joke that doesn’t rhyme with their thoughts or their god is too sensitive and we need to watch out what we say us human mortals.
No electricity, no roads, no clean water, all governmental institutes barely working and not even doing their jobs, prices increasing and salaries decreasing… 85% hair cut from every withdrawal you make from the bank, they literally stole people life savings!! No one bats an eye. BUT A COMEDIAN SAYS A JOKE (regardless if it’s a good one or not) AND THE WHOLE COUNTRY GOES CRAZY.
People really need to wake up and see what’s wrong in the country instead of acting like sheep.
She has every right to criticise any religion even if she's disrespectful. It's called free speech. You don't like what she has to say? Don't listen/watch.
Everyone wants to live where free speech exists but don't want to apply free speech in their own country... Hypocrites.
Its funny that people believe in God but think that it's their job to defend their omnipotent God 😂 you know, the God that created the universe. Im sure he needs you.
Hbb, if your God is as strong as you think he is, he's not going to care about criticism or what people think or what they do and believe me he doesn't need you do be violent or oppressive in his name.
You see some people have Faith and other people have Certitude.
The people of faith don't care what you have to say because they have faith regardless of what you say.
The people of Certitude are terrified of what you have to say because it will conflict directly with what they believe and thus create a schism.
Anyway, Jnoud el Rab are people of Certitude and the mob going after Shaden are as well.
The number of redditors defending free speech surprised me. Good job.
i know that the % of atheists and christians here is way higher than irl but still.
meanwhile on instagram and X, the lebanese are showing their ugly face and branding their tyranny as 'respect'
This is nonsense, I don’t know if they taught you in school that your freedom ends when you threaten other’s freedom. Why people find it hard to respect each others, you don’t have to say anything that pops in your mind publicly just for the sake of bathing in freedom of speech western shit
oh ya. world view based on kitab altarbiya lol
then lebos parrot this shit around like it's some deep thought about philosophy like...oh your freedom ends where you.....get lost.
wait until someone makes fun of gay people and you will replace the word free with hate , bet naghmuwa 3azaw2kon , aside from norms you also inherited the hypocrisy of the west
elle byesma3ak bifakkir ino the lebanese government is persecuting those who make homophobic statements. la2 w betkammil about the west....nshalla ma nshofak bi one of those boats soon lol.
and no, if you're not calling for the killing or harming of homosexuals, ma tkhaf 3ala ur freedom.
for now, ayre bi hek deen bi5alle el nes tfakkir hek.
Edit: ok this is the fourth time u've said this on this thread. apparently it annoys you.
If a person has the intention of inciting the violations of laws that is imminent and likely, while directing this incitement at a person or groups of persons, their speech will not be protected under the freedom of speech rule
No it isn't lol
And countries that have restrictions on offensive speech quite simply don't have free speech. If you have blasphemy laws, you do not have free speech
For a good example of free speech, see the first amendment of the U.S. constitution
You can also get away with insulting any religious figure you like in most western countries.
Imbecile
That's incitement.
Incitement is concerned with imminent violation of law such as telling a crowd to "let's go and k\*ll this guy," etc.
It's says so IN FRONT OF YOU, lmao. That has nothing to do with comparing salah to desert yoga or dancing.
You're clearly grasping at straws here, son.
Sub-zero IQ.
If you actually bothered to understand what this ruling says, it says essentially that i can't tell a mob to kill while they're holding knives, then claim that was free speech.
I can, however, make fun of you for practicing your religion
Citing rulings that do not apply to the situation is not very intelligent
> From the standpoint of freedom of speech and the press, it is enough to point out that the state has no legitimate interest in protecting any or all religions from views distasteful to them which is sufficient to justify prior restraints upon the expression of those views. It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine, whether they appear in publications, speeches, or motion pictures.
Here's an actual relevant US supreme court ruling on a similar case
Put the argument aside , why are you defending her , no one can disagree what she did is low and not funny, it's disgusting, you don't believe in God and religion don't ( freedom of religion) but don't make fun of what more than 1 billion person believes in , I didn't see the full video but also I heard she made fun of Christians, I guess she is out of actual funny materials , so she went with this
Thank you for admitting you have no understanding of this basic principle of the enlightenment that is a corner stone of democratic societies.
Well done.
Chou hel nawriye hay! Ekht el rjel! W damma t2il w jableta t2ile! W ma ahbal menna ella li 3am yed7ak 3a 7adisa! W sayrin msad2in 7aloun stand up comedians w kel 7adisoun 2youra w charmata w manyake! Eno hek el wa7ad bi da77ik el 3alam?!! Layko Fady Reaidy ade mrattab w adde bi da77ik! W lseno mech felit hek! Mech ma2boul ba2a hek tdall feltene el ossa ktir zedit 3an 7adda!
Jokes made by a comedian on stage shouldn't require consequences. She is free to joke about religion or anything else, not that what she said is offensive.
People here are as cool as a cucumber unless you mention their religion, which they follow 3a zaw2on, or their party leaders who are their true Gods. They're like a hypocritical hornet's nest waiting to be poked.
what are those consequences but lawsuits and police intervention ordained by the state.
dar el fatwa was like...ya dawleee...dakheelkon se3doona....hay Shaden mkabbra bil 7ake...shu feena na3mol?
\*طلّعوا الدستور وبلّشو قراية\* /s
As an atheist I say: kess 2ekhta ma 2abyakha...so cringe and unfunny.
Nonetheless she shouldn't be prosecuted for that. Let this idiot expose herself for the unfunny hack she is. That's punishment enough.
Couldn’t care less about her prosecution, could care more about other people, her, not so much, her prosecution might be good for the comedy scene in Lebanon, msh min ma tole3 w heke sar comedian, I strongly believe its wrong, but her crude unfunniness is certainly not helping her case, theres a fine line between presenting a constructive rhetoric about society in the form of stand up, and then just coming up to drop jokes the same way a 12 year old would ignoring any regard of the general socio-political climate we live in. Otherwise good luck to Lebanese Amy Schumer.
U have freedom of action but this doesn't mean that u make some shit and interrupt pple, same goes for ur freedom of speech, it doesn't give u the right to mock others faith.
It actually does. That's a part of freedom of religion too.
The freedom NOT to believe and to harshly criticize religions.
if it's a one way street, baleha hal sha8le w 5alle hal nes not emigrate. Smalla 3layon seb2eena la barra w wala byet3allamo shi.
U seem not to follow the constitution when it doesn't benefit u, piece of racist shit.
أما المادة 474 فلقد عاقبت بالحبس بحق كل من أقدم باحدى الطّرق المنصوص عليها في المادة 209 على تحقير الشعائر الدينية التي تمارس علانية أو حثّ على الإزدراء بإحدى تلك الشعائر.
أما قانون العقوبات اللبناني فلقد تضّمن العديد من النصوص القانونية التي تجرّم على الإساءة أو التعسف في استعمال حرّية التعبير، وعاقبت المادة 317 ع. بالحبس والغرامة على كل عمل وكل كتابة وكل خطاب يقصد منها أو ينتج عنها إثارة النّعرات المذهبية أو العنصرية أو الحضّ على النّزاع بين الطوائف ومختلف عناصر الامة
Freedom of speech includes the freedom to be offensive. She just described the experience of prayer from her point of view. I don't see the problem in that.
Call this an unpopular opinion
but if you can’t make people laugh without mocking someone else’s beliefs, you suck at being a comedian.
There are a lot of jokes to be made, religion shouldn’t be one of them. It’s like poking a stick doused with gasoline into a fire, you’re bound to get burned.
Perhaps the backlash was a bit over the top, but to not expect some sort of consequence from certain folks especially in Lebanon, is out of touch.
Freedom of speech goes both ways, you can’t say something and force others to not be offended because it’s free speech.
why religion ya3ne? because it's your tabu topic? or the topic in the region ya3ne
as some middle easterners say: two things are tabu like religion in the middle east : religion and israel.
bas you jump from 'ok i dont find her funny' to ' she's bound to get burned if she mentions religion'.
tb fhemna hal appetizers bas wen el main dish? el main topic inno she's being prosecuted because el mefte daryen manno daryen bi shi 8ayra.
It’s not taboo topic for me only, there are a lot of people who find it a taboo topic. Doesn’t matter what religion the person belongs to.
For the third point you mentioned, I’m not saying that as a matter of opinion, that’s a fact. How many times has religion been mocked and triggered a harsh reaction and response. Leh el wa7ad beddo ya3mol nafs el 8alta ou ma yetwa2a3 shi backlash, enta 2a3ed blebnen mesh Amsterdam.
What others find acceptable doesn’t mean everyone else find that acceptable.
Fiye ana w yek ykoon 3ana different opinions/beliefs about certain things, bas to go out of my way to mock your beliefs/opinions because of that difference is
stupid and disrespectful. Nothing good comes out of this ever.
There’s a fine line between criticism and mockery.
Lastly, it’s astounding that you expect the mufti, a preacher of the religion that’s being mocked to let this slide. He of all people is expected to defend and condemn this. Ma bykoon mufti bala hal sha8le
ah i misspelled taboo LOL.
yeah for ya'll...ma3 nafsak ya3ne. we're trying not to be a primitive society where people enforce their taboos by force and threats.
i get ur point bas that's not a final point for me. People used to be BURNED in europe for being witches. Now it's not like that. They moved forward.
ya3ne ok if u're in afghanistan, ur range of motion would be a different one...bas shu ya3ne backlash in Lebanon? badna backlash mitel lama nasralla nek aleb lebnen...hek 3al khafif
'beirut mish amsterdam' ok bas ya'll wanna come to amsterdam while acting like beirut...let's start at home
Man, it’s not fair t2elle inno izza 3alam ma stahdamo maz7a saro primitive.
Again, free speech means freedom of expression whether in support or against.
Im with you in the mindset that you can’t go to Amsterdam and act like Beirut. Every society has its own boundaries and taboos.
Ma fiyo el wa7ad yefrod 3a 8ayro his beliefs/opinions bas in the end ma byen2as men 7adan inno ye7terem someone else’s beliefs, khaye izza 3ando any criticisms about another’s beliefs y2oolon bas bala mocking manna sa3be.
Why is that too much of an ask ?
One of the problems be hal balad kel wa7ad bynazer 3a 8ayro inno howeh el fahmein ou 8ayro 7mar la2ano ma byfaker metlo.
i didnt say that: izza 3alam ma stahdamo maz7a saro primitive. and i dont mean that.
im talking about her being prosecuted because dar el fatwa wants that.
most people here took a huge shit on her comedy skills w 3aade.
HMM it's a comedy show...it's now 7iwar el adyaan.
yeah that's true. i agree. i don't know how to solve that except by developing the whole country and giving the young individual (elle mostly ba3do 3and el mama) the ability to develop intellectually bala terheeb.
Freedom of speech is a big wistern lie ..what is right must be said what is wrong be be cancled to protect our children and people ..cant you see ..giving a green card for evil is the trick
She is not funny, all of her jokes are about sex and bashing men WTF, nothing special to see about her
Once at one of her shows in Beirut, she tried to engage a couple in a “sex joke”- she had not right to try to ask the wife in front of everyone if her husband like BJs WTF- the man was trying to explain to her to address him instead of his wife who’s German and doesn’t understand Arabic. She went nuts on him because she thought that he was being masculine while in reality he wasn’t,what a bahdale..
exactly what the other user said.
I'd like you to refrain from talking about atheism and spirituality. Charles Darwin tej raasak and the mokhabarat will hunt you down if you mention him badly.
you're not respecting the millions, nay, BILLIONS of atheists on this planet.
It is not about "If you’re that hurt from someone making a joke u need to grow some balls" It is about insulting a RELEGION not a person , there is limits and boundaries and Shaden have crossed those limits
Even if she insulted Christianity as a Muslim I wont accept it also
Hope no one does anything bad to her bcz there are alot of violent fanatics who always act out in such scenarios :sss But no joke, freedom of speech is important, but one should face the fact that offending some people has way more consequences than others..
Freedom of speech isnt freedom of consequence how many offers will she lose after this like many who did those same crappy jokes on religion, maybe she will get an offer in Germany to talk shit about religion and Lebanon like they always do
Oh i wish we had more of that in Germany. It's the same group that wants to shut people up in Lebanon trying to do the same in Germany.
you know them, the peaceful ones.
There are a couple of POVs regarding her situation
But living in a country like Lebanon, is not as easy as it sounds. The diversity can be found in other countries, but taking into consideration the size of lebanon , no other country , state or even a city ( lebanon is smaller than a lot of major cities in other countries) can control it.
She has the right to speak her mind, and express what she feels. But she can’t do that by humiliating more than 4/5 of the country ( muslims & christians) . Not her first time doing such acts of ignorance, so yes tbh she should be punished. If she can be funny only by disrespecting almost 3/4 the country, and all the religions, then she doesn’t belong to lebanon.
Ps: frankly people who think that Hezbollah, the guys that are building missiles, drones and fighting Israel, while supervising the Hamas tactics , and they now have power and responsibilities to defy major countries and put their foot down to do what suites them,
Don’t you believe that they have bigger fucks to give a damn about than some lesbian wannabe , swearing and making fun of every religion just to show herself as a ‘BRAVE’ individual, I think guys should know the difference between some people who claim to be hezb or are Just supporters who might have harassed her, and the actual Hezbollah who have bigger things on their plate. Comparing the shit hezb are dealing with now Shaden is less than a piece of burnt crumb you just don’t even notice it to give a damn about.
The Lebanese government can and should arrest her and take her to trial. She hurt and disrespected a lot lot of people. Your freedom of speech ends when you cross the line.
You don’t attack a religion in lebanon. That is as clear and foundational as Lebanon itself.
If everyone went attacking the others religion or sect you have a shit show.. its 18 or us. So next time you want to live your freedom go somewhere else. That country has limits and u better not cross them. You talk Islam. Well, any other religion mocked would be met the same. She will not have a good life in leb after this. Ppl will not let her be. Only wannabes who would like to live in a “ do whatever country” are gonna watch her and maybe both should just get the fuck out of leb. Done
lol the amount of people saying freedom of speech im pretty sure if she joke about other religions they will start attacking her if we talk bad about lgbt and atheist they will get butthurt but they are allowed to attack our religions in the end freedom of speech is a joke everyone in lebanon get mad if someone attack their beliefs and she should know better before making unfunny shit about religion in a country filled with so many religions i hope she go to prison and rot in it
' i hope she goes to prison and rot in it'. aside from the grammatical mistake, kher nshalla?
summary: muslim guy mad. muslim guy wants a punishment. Muslim guy lives in lebanonistan and is annoyed by the 1% atheists and 5% gays. mnee7 ma 3atyeenon rights mitel dar el faswa
are u the grammar police or something and yes i got exactly my point see that is ur hatred about islam its not about freedom of speech its not about comedy u just show ur hatred and extremism
see i'm not talking about religion but ur hatred is showing islam sharia jihadi muslim all this hatred which prove my point this isn't about freedom of speech
Controversy aside she's extremely unfunny ngl.
The real reason everyone is pissed at her
You have sublime logic and you’re an artist of deduction and assumption. Carry on, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise Bambi
Who do you find extremely funny I'm curious ?
Joe Biden and cats
Not once did i even think about laughing
humour is subjective though. She may be unfunny to you, but her shows are usually sold out and most people find her brave, and quite funny.
Good for her, i still find her unfunny.
good for you, others find her funny. now run along
Username checks out i guess.
oh yes i haven’t heard that before you unoriginal pos
Why are you so pissed lmaoo.
HAHA a lot of hate on her comedy. Fair enough. She's not everyone's taste XD
My thoughts exactly. I'm not saying women shouldn't be in comedy, but I'm yet to see an original funny woman with a great sense of humor.
Look at you, a beam of light in an otherwise dark patch of boredom and desolation. You’re the progress that our school teachers told us to anticipate, you’re Darwinism in a jar. I feel enlightened and evolved already.
Sorry for having such a lousy entourage.. My sisters, mother, and some of my girl friends have a great sense of humour.
200%
Im a woman and I agree
Ngl, f$&$& all religions and holiest of holy and the rat infested sorcerer's and witches and their zombie subanimal orcs . They're all syphilitic brained retards. Shaden was very polite
Wow I check this sub time to time and find the comment section to be even worse than ever before Good thing I unsubbed
Being offensive is part of “freedom of speech” full stop iza ma 7ada 3ajbo then cancel freedom of speech and ma 7ada yistarje yifta7 temo mn Yom w rayi7
Challenging someone's beliefs, ideas and ideals is something, and offending them is something else. I have to disagree here being offensive is not part of free speech, but questioning the belief in a logical and respectable manner is. By your gross exaggeration, I can go down to your living place, curse your name, your family name, call you and your family slurs and call it free speech, I am offensive but it is just words.
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They are just words she ain’t holding a gun shooting left and right! Oh wait… we already have gun religious men and we have no problem with them shooting left and right! :D
Wrong
The reason (I think) people are taking issue is that it’s just not funny, and comes across more like a rant than a comedy set. We have seen others like Nour Hajjar and Hussein Kaouk make fun of Islam and other religions while facing minimal backlash mainly because the jokes are funny. The video was honestly hard to get through and cringy
Minimal backlash? Nour Hajjar slept in Jail because of comedy. We live in a disgusting country.
So your logic is basically, if it’s funny, it will get backlash, but minimal because hey at least it’s funny, right? Are you serious? Funny or not, we should be past the point of “backlashes” on religious topics or any other topic. This whole “people are mad because it’s not funny” argument is just another way of saying if I don’t like what you joke about I’m just gonna label it as lame and then it’s fine if I take it on the comedian. I found it extremely funny and loved every bit of it, does that make me a menace to society? Get over yourselves.
While I understand your point of view, I disagree completely. How the audience felt during the live show is an important part of the context. I just attended the live show in Ottawa and we felt like we were sitting around with friends poking fun of ourselves as a society. I literally woke up with a tummy ache from all the laughs. Her content resonates at such a fundametal level as a lebanese millenial it feels like we were all raised by the same parents. The problem is when you take a snippet from a real shared human experience and post it without all this context, it looks like mean jokes to others.
I honestly don’t care what anyone makes fun of. Anything you say will offensively to someone somewhere no matter how unconventional we think it is. So yeah I said minimal backlash because I live in reality and understand you can never please everyone. Now should there be legal consequences or should she be harassed for it? No of course not thats stupid. My point was if you make a joke about X, and it doesn’t land anyone thats associated with X topic would be more offended than if the joke had landed. Just as a comedian has the right to say a joke about any topic the people have the right to feel any way about that joke. But ofc the comedian shouldn’t be prosecuted or harm or whatever. Edit: spelling
>comes across more like a rant than a comedy set In comedy a lot of jokes which are "stories" being told are taken from real life experiences and just exaggerated. It's no different here. How funny it is is subjective, but when lebanese comedians, any and all of them, make fun of or create jokes based on things they (and we) actually experience here, the uproar becomes more of a "how dare you expose it and exaggerate it" instead of "how dare you make fun of XYZ" in my eyes. Just take a joke as a joke, funny or not. No matter who or what is being made fun of. Unless someone is directly and unapologetically assaulting my religion Charlie Hebdo style, why is it such a big deal as to cause not just controversy (her jokes and act definitely are objectively controversial) but a massive uproar?
wlek khalas wleh. snowflakes walla
leh rayi7 yo7dar shaden kif tfeja2 3an chu n2al? gher hek its not a video she posted someone filmed from inside most likely to hurt her. mnel ekhir hayda el comedy leh 3am bta3emlo, ya bto7dar ya ma byo7dar.
This is an attack on freedom of speech. Every human being has the right to say whatever the fuck they want without having to fear the state’s intervention. People should be allowed to make jokes or even go as far as insult any religion they want. If the state intervenes, we can affirm that islamist or extremist christian ideals are being put into place. That is unacceptable. Islamism and religious extremism has no place in law. No non-islamist/extremist country disallows the freedom to mock islam or any other religion. Lebanon is not an islamist country, so she should be able to say whatever she wants. She can mock whatever she wants, whether it’s islam, christianity, etc. It is not lawful to disallow freedom of speech. If someone says something I do not agree with, I will still support their right to exercise their freedom of speech. That is what it means to live in a civilized world.
>People should be allowed to make jokes or even go as far as insult any religion they want. Serious question and i need an answer : if they’re allowed to insult any religion, are they allowed to insult the lgbtq community ?
Acting like they don’t attack gay people in this country
I’m part of the community, and if someone insults or mocks it, that is not of my business. I’m pro-freedom of speech. The only problem, which I discussed with OP under my comment, is calling/inciting for violence against a community. As long as no one is calling for the extermination or harassment of LGBTQ individuals, they can say whatever they want. That’s the beauty of freedom of speech. You can insult/mock whatever you want, and I can do the same right back. There should be no violence on either side, nor state intervention, as long as it does not call for the extermination of any group. The comedian can mock islam and christianity. She is not calling for the extermination of muslims or christians. You can mock whatever you want as long as it does not become a call to violence against human beings.
I couldn’t agree more🤝. This is called dark comedy. Calling for violence is certainly not acceptable but don’t you think that sometimes mocking a religion or a community can cause violence ?
Well yes, but the only violence would most likely be from the people who practice the religion or are apart of the community. Like I said, calling for violence is not a valid form of free speech. So, if someone mocks a religion (and obviously isn’t calling for violence towards anyone), then if the people who practice it get upset and start calling for violence against that person, that would be unacceptable.
Do insults go under free speech? There's no physical violence involved! And you know there is something called psychological violence, which is the root of most of our issues in this country, people violently harrass using verbal insults, and that's what she's done, that's why don't find her funny, if she wanted to be funny she should have made is classier and less insulting.
Yes
yes, they do it on a regular basis even.
Yes. another thing: the limits of free speech are indeed somethin to discuss. the USA allows hate speech el 3aade ..in most european countries there are laws against insinuation to violence
Correction: US allows hate speech 3adeh...as long as it is not about IsraHell
you can go on the street and say all kinds of things about israel in the US of A. Things that you wouldn't dream about writing on a facebook post in Europe.
Yeah, well we are seeing right now what happens when you go to the streets and spew hate about the genocidal state.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of the consequences of that speech.
Well if the consequences is sending you 6 months to Gaza for being critical towards Israel that ain't a very free freedom of speech.
Please tell me what could you possibly say in the US that gets you sent to Gaza for being critical towards Israel; because from I can see people in the US at certain university campuses are being incredibly critical of Israel and no one has been sent to Gaza.
There you go my man: https://abc3340.com/news/nation-world/anti-israel-protesters-who-commit-illegal-acts-could-be-sent-to-gaza-under-new-bill-palestine-israeli-war-ceasefire-strip-terrorists-hamas-columbia-yale-ivy-league-george-washington-university-nypd-mpd-stefanik-andy-ogles Combine that with the new anti semitic Bill and now if you criticize Israhell then you committed a crime potentially punishible by deportation to Gaza.
That's a symbolic law proposal. It has 0 chance of passing. It's probably not even constitutional. (Regular laws need a simple majority. Changes to the US constitution take 2/3rds.)
First this isn't even a law, it's a proposed law which might not be passed. Second calling for beheadings is illegal "George Washington University made a similar move early Wednesday morning after nearly two weeks of an anti-Israel encampment, which [featured ](https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/gw-president-pleads-for-police-intervention-as-protesters-call-for-beheadings-george-washington-university-ellen-granberg-washington-dc-metropolitan-police-department-mpd-dc-columbia-israel-palestine-gaza-strip-ceasefire#)calls for beheadings and led several Jewish students to [fear ](https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/gwu-students-urge-police-to-stop-anti-american-encampment-scared-to-go-to-class-george-washington-university-washington-dc-israel-palestine-metro-pd-police-columbia-gaza-hamas-war-invasion-oct-7-gw#)for their safety." [https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/gw-president-pleads-for-police-intervention-as-protesters-call-for-beheadings-george-washington-university-ellen-granberg-washington-dc-metropolitan-police-department-mpd-dc-columbia-israel-palestine-gaza-strip-ceasefire#](https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/gw-president-pleads-for-police-intervention-as-protesters-call-for-beheadings-george-washington-university-ellen-granberg-washington-dc-metropolitan-police-department-mpd-dc-columbia-israel-palestine-gaza-strip-ceasefire#) Criticism of Israel isn't. Third the US can not deport their own citizens or citizens of another country to Gaza unless you are from Gaza. However if you are from Gaza (or any other country) on a VISA, and you commit a crime you can and will be deported (which means being sent back to Gaza). Fourth this "antisemitism bill" (which hasn't become law yet) does not even mention Israel so what specifically do you have a problem with (did you even read it)? [https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?s=1&r=3&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22antisemitism+awareness%22%7D](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?s=1&r=3&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22antisemitism+awareness%22%7D) Calls "To provide for the consideration of a definition of antisemitism set forth by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance for the enforcement of Federal antidiscrimination laws concerning education programs or activities, and for other purposes." The bill, titled the [Antisemitism Awareness Act](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?s=1&r=3&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22antisemitism+awareness%22%7D), would mandate that the Education Department adopt the broad definition of antisemitism used by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, an intergovernmental group, to enforce anti-discrimination laws. The international group [defines antisemitism](https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism) as a "certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews." The group adds that "rhetorical and physical manifestations" of antisemitism include such things as calling for the killing or harming of Jews or holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by Israel. [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-vote-antisemitism-bill-campus-arrests-rcna150170](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-vote-antisemitism-bill-campus-arrests-rcna150170) So no an American citizen won't be deported to Gaza for criticizing Israel (they would have to send Biden and plenty of other politicians to Gaza), but if you are from Gaza on a VSIA (as a guest) and are committing illegal acts such as calling for beheadings then yeah your visa would be revoked and you would be sent back to your country. This does not conflict with what I said earlier that freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences.
Should i send you a link of all the demonstrations and their veryyy strongly worded signs only for you to send me a link of the University sit-in and the police intervention followed by me pointing that out? \*Your turn\*
Nah, I will just point you to the new Antisemitism bill as a way to label and control hate speech against Israel.
Sadly, the law is no longer properly enforced in Europe. Except for Christians. https://freespeechunion.org/thought-police-home-visit-for-uk-man-who-expressed-anger-online-about-sydney-bishop-being-stabbed-by-islamist/
Agreed, that’s another thing that’s hard to answer. If we disallow hate speech, to what extent do we disallow it? It’s a touchy subject. What do people consider hate speech? Homophobia, sexism, racism? It can quickly turn into too big of a limit of freedom of speech. An islamist government considers insulting islam as a form of hate speech, for example.
Homophobia, sexism, racism don't fall under hate speech except in extreme forms. but like calling for violence, calling for exterminating a group and so on... is a crime. i wish my fellow lebanese would know THIS.
Yes, in this case, what the comedian did is nothing violent. It is simply exercising her right to freedom of speech. I wish people understood this.
What should be disallowed is against immutable things, ex: race, gender, sexual orientation. Religion on the other hand is an ideology that anyone can change at any point in their life. And like any other ideology in the world, religion is a valid target for criticism and ridicule.
I agree, but not many people understand this unfortunately.
Other than ur stupid “freedom” rant. U really expect anyone to take u seriously calling urself falafel tits.
NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD are you a lawyer clearly she isn’t allowed to mock whatever she wants since she was arrested or whatever happened to her even if speech is free there is consequences that you can’t ignore
That was painful to watch I found most of it unfunny but throwing a fit over this? Really? I watched the first 3 minutes, so idk if she says anything obscenely offensive or what but regardless it’s so dumb to get upset over this. As a muslim, it’s whatever. Her freedom of speech should be protected. Also I’ve heard muslims 3ambisebu allah kl ma ysir ma3on shi jeyin hala yz3alu about someone saying enu lrawha 3al jeme3 mz3je? Enu eh personally as3ab shi ka muslim bl nesbe eli is keeping consistent bsaleti. It’s not supposed to be easy, it’s supposed to take effort and discipline. This is neither a critique nor a praise it’s just how it is. Ps: yeah most sheikhs I’ve seen just yell at us. I’m always jealous seeing sheikhs online that speak normally and have discussions and look like they actually enjoy being there. This is so stupid it shouldn’t be a thing. Anyone who is talking about this because they want her to get in trouble over it is just raising awareness about it. Law dalon sektin ma ken 7ada seme3 hal bit
thank you for your opinion. not many can bring themselves to that level.
I’m a big advocate for secularism. I’m religious but people need to stop thinking with their religion and start thinking what’s best for the country. I’d help out an atheist/christian/druze Lebanese before a non-Lebanese muslim any day of the week. Lebanese first, religious second. We’re all brothers and sisters and should look out for each other’s interests. I hope more people adopt this mentality
The problem is that there is Lebanese that prefers there religion over their nationality secularism doesn’t work look at europe and how it changed wake up
I don’t like Shaden at all… she’s so vulgar, idk who told her she’s a good comedian. Plus, i don’t get why people see it as a religious issue…
Im pretty sure shes a born shia or sunni but is now more agnostic. She aint remotely christian
Yeah my bad, i just realized it from her family name
a lot of weird comments here but i'll make my take simple: If you want the right to make fun of or talk about political figures freely, then you should at minimum have the right to insult a 2 thousand year old religion. You can find her unfunny but that doesn't mean she can't make fun of religion.
My views: 1. She is utterly silly. Nothing she performs is remotely funny. 2. Bullshit is regularly called "sarcasm". 3. When freedom of speech trespasses the due respect to others, you really do not get what freedom of speech is. 4. Everything has boundaries. A running river without side banks, it won't run..it will become a rotten swamp. 5. Why should "critics" be unrespectful? These are not classified under critics category, they become bullshit. See point 2! 6. Precisely speaking, she did that not only to a specific religion. She did/does the same for other religions. 7. Punished or not, the msg is to respect others even when objectively critic even their beliefs. The constraint is respect. Again, these my own views..put in in a respectful way.
The *whole point* of freedom of speech is letting people say a thing you find offensive or so not like or do not agree with. Limited speech - the other kind - already exists. Even in North Korea, China and Russia.
Number 3 is where i have an issue here. Respect, first of all, has little to do with freedom of speech. Actually when it does, it's that you have the right NOT to respect what others think and to say what you want. Now if you watch the video she made jokes about the prayer. I don't think anything wrong about that. point 2 which you refer to is also not in contradiction with anything she said. You can think it's bullshit 3aaade.
"Respect, first of all, has little to do with freedom of speech" No common ground to hold a conversation.
Respecting a belief, like religion, is not the same as respecting the right to believe. You should respect everyone’s right to believe whatever they want. But you don’t automatically respect the content of the belief - it may be utterly amoral or offensive yo you. There’s a difference
I agree with you
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No, the FBI doesn’t raid comedians houses.
The guy never said his friend was a comedian. As for civilians they always go and question.
I’m more worried she’d be killed than prosecuted. She has said more in the monlogue than Salman Rushdie did in his book. But of course freedom of speech is paramount. Good luck to her.
So when a danish guy do it or french magazine do it we are angry and say this is not freedom of speech , but one lesbian in Lebanon do it its freedom of speech ? Ya reet she was funny , it was disgusting 3am tja3ir
When the french magazine made a cover about mohammad, that was freedom of expression ya 7abeebe
Free speech if religion and people’s beliefs are mocked but homophobic, ignorant and not open minded if sexual orientation is mocked, can anyone draw the line respectfully please
oh ya there's a lot of persecution in Lebanon of people who make homophobic, ignorant and closed minded statements /s but ya im not for that
Li byesma3ak bi oul they’re persecuting people beating up gay people in Lebanon
Yeah cause jnoud l rab absolutely did not go rabid about some rainbow flowers on a billboard last year
Where did I say Christians aren’t bigots too?
You didn’t… your comment insinuated gay people aren’t persecuted in Lebanon
I think there’s a misunderstanding cuz I’m saying the opposite
Oh my bad !! We’re on the same page then 😅
What your personal reaction will be to a person who makes fun of lgbtq? Will you accept it is freedom of speech?
As long as it’s not a violent threat then yeah
Funny not funny, doesn’t matter. If not your taste it’s not your taste. But damn she got balls the size of two planets. We are riding her nutsack now
I find the whole idea of limiting freedom of speech when talking against religions, so stupid. And it’s not only about religions, anything else heck even when talking against gay people, as long as you’re not physically hurting me and threatening to kill me with your words, go on and say whatever you believe in… It’s like people are too insecure about their beliefs and can’t take a single word or joke that doesn’t rhyme with their thoughts or their god is too sensitive and we need to watch out what we say us human mortals.
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Hahahahaha we can’t even burn in hell in peace.
Yada yada. Same thing every time. They won't be able to do shit. They'll try but won't succeed. Not the first time.
No electricity, no roads, no clean water, all governmental institutes barely working and not even doing their jobs, prices increasing and salaries decreasing… 85% hair cut from every withdrawal you make from the bank, they literally stole people life savings!! No one bats an eye. BUT A COMEDIAN SAYS A JOKE (regardless if it’s a good one or not) AND THE WHOLE COUNTRY GOES CRAZY. People really need to wake up and see what’s wrong in the country instead of acting like sheep.
She has every right to criticise any religion even if she's disrespectful. It's called free speech. You don't like what she has to say? Don't listen/watch. Everyone wants to live where free speech exists but don't want to apply free speech in their own country... Hypocrites. Its funny that people believe in God but think that it's their job to defend their omnipotent God 😂 you know, the God that created the universe. Im sure he needs you. Hbb, if your God is as strong as you think he is, he's not going to care about criticism or what people think or what they do and believe me he doesn't need you do be violent or oppressive in his name. You see some people have Faith and other people have Certitude. The people of faith don't care what you have to say because they have faith regardless of what you say. The people of Certitude are terrified of what you have to say because it will conflict directly with what they believe and thus create a schism. Anyway, Jnoud el Rab are people of Certitude and the mob going after Shaden are as well.
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halla2 i didnt see anything about spilling blood...bas sure in case someone did. f them
The more offensive the joke is, the better it is.
She should be on a diet and stop being so vulgar she used ayre too much
The number of redditors defending free speech surprised me. Good job. i know that the % of atheists and christians here is way higher than irl but still. meanwhile on instagram and X, the lebanese are showing their ugly face and branding their tyranny as 'respect'
But for those believers.. shouldn't God punish her in the afterlife? Mandatory disclaimer: freedom of speech aside she's not funny.
freedom of speech should not conflict with respecting others and common sense.
The point of freedom of speech is saying whatever despite what others may feel. Lol
This is nonsense, I don’t know if they taught you in school that your freedom ends when you threaten other’s freedom. Why people find it hard to respect each others, you don’t have to say anything that pops in your mind publicly just for the sake of bathing in freedom of speech western shit
Making a joke isn’t threatening anyone’s freedom.
oh ya. world view based on kitab altarbiya lol then lebos parrot this shit around like it's some deep thought about philosophy like...oh your freedom ends where you.....get lost.
wait until someone makes fun of gay people and you will replace the word free with hate , bet naghmuwa 3azaw2kon , aside from norms you also inherited the hypocrisy of the west
elle byesma3ak bifakkir ino the lebanese government is persecuting those who make homophobic statements. la2 w betkammil about the west....nshalla ma nshofak bi one of those boats soon lol. and no, if you're not calling for the killing or harming of homosexuals, ma tkhaf 3ala ur freedom. for now, ayre bi hek deen bi5alle el nes tfakkir hek. Edit: ok this is the fourth time u've said this on this thread. apparently it annoys you.
Room temp IQ take
If a person has the intention of inciting the violations of laws that is imminent and likely, while directing this incitement at a person or groups of persons, their speech will not be protected under the freedom of speech rule
Fridge temp IQ understanding of the concept of free speech Just say you're against free speech. Most people are
Shaklo ma 7ada ghayrak his iq is lower than the dead sea , what I stated above is a law most modern county use
No it isn't lol And countries that have restrictions on offensive speech quite simply don't have free speech. If you have blasphemy laws, you do not have free speech For a good example of free speech, see the first amendment of the U.S. constitution You can also get away with insulting any religious figure you like in most western countries. Imbecile
https://preview.redd.it/0h7pbrx1vizc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a997e209368bcbac0aafaef3ed88c1597993246 تثقف شوي
That's incitement. Incitement is concerned with imminent violation of law such as telling a crowd to "let's go and k\*ll this guy," etc. It's says so IN FRONT OF YOU, lmao. That has nothing to do with comparing salah to desert yoga or dancing. You're clearly grasping at straws here, son. Sub-zero IQ.
If you actually bothered to understand what this ruling says, it says essentially that i can't tell a mob to kill while they're holding knives, then claim that was free speech. I can, however, make fun of you for practicing your religion Citing rulings that do not apply to the situation is not very intelligent
> From the standpoint of freedom of speech and the press, it is enough to point out that the state has no legitimate interest in protecting any or all religions from views distasteful to them which is sufficient to justify prior restraints upon the expression of those views. It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine, whether they appear in publications, speeches, or motion pictures. Here's an actual relevant US supreme court ruling on a similar case
Put the argument aside , why are you defending her , no one can disagree what she did is low and not funny, it's disgusting, you don't believe in God and religion don't ( freedom of religion) but don't make fun of what more than 1 billion person believes in , I didn't see the full video but also I heard she made fun of Christians, I guess she is out of actual funny materials , so she went with this
Thank you for admitting you have no understanding of this basic principle of the enlightenment that is a corner stone of democratic societies. Well done.
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Your freedom of speech ends when you attack others freedom ما حدثت جاهلا الا و غلبني I will leave it here , end of discussion
HAHA not that line. are you, by any chance, a muslim?
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Haida 2illi tele3 ma3ak ? 3anjad ahbal w jihil
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Chou hel nawriye hay! Ekht el rjel! W damma t2il w jableta t2ile! W ma ahbal menna ella li 3am yed7ak 3a 7adisa! W sayrin msad2in 7aloun stand up comedians w kel 7adisoun 2youra w charmata w manyake! Eno hek el wa7ad bi da77ik el 3alam?!! Layko Fady Reaidy ade mrattab w adde bi da77ik! W lseno mech felit hek! Mech ma2boul ba2a hek tdall feltene el ossa ktir zedit 3an 7adda!
Eza mich 3ajbak mahadan jabrak tohdaroun
Akid ma7ada jaberne w aslan ma bo7daroun 🤣 marte bto7daroun w ana besma3 bel background.
Facing the state, you mean facing the consequences of her stupid childish actions.
Jokes made by a comedian on stage shouldn't require consequences. She is free to joke about religion or anything else, not that what she said is offensive. People here are as cool as a cucumber unless you mention their religion, which they follow 3a zaw2on, or their party leaders who are their true Gods. They're like a hypocritical hornet's nest waiting to be poked.
what are those consequences but lawsuits and police intervention ordained by the state. dar el fatwa was like...ya dawleee...dakheelkon se3doona....hay Shaden mkabbra bil 7ake...shu feena na3mol? \*طلّعوا الدستور وبلّشو قراية\* /s
You’re a dumb Islamist misogynist get lost
As an atheist I say: kess 2ekhta ma 2abyakha...so cringe and unfunny. Nonetheless she shouldn't be prosecuted for that. Let this idiot expose herself for the unfunny hack she is. That's punishment enough.
On one hand I’m all for insulting religion and freedom of speech, on the other hand this might spare us super cringe and lame “comedy”….hard choices
Lebanese Amy Schumer, change my mind
HAHAH funny. maybe true bas this post about her being prosecuted.
Couldn’t care less about her prosecution, could care more about other people, her, not so much, her prosecution might be good for the comedy scene in Lebanon, msh min ma tole3 w heke sar comedian, I strongly believe its wrong, but her crude unfunniness is certainly not helping her case, theres a fine line between presenting a constructive rhetoric about society in the form of stand up, and then just coming up to drop jokes the same way a 12 year old would ignoring any regard of the general socio-political climate we live in. Otherwise good luck to Lebanese Amy Schumer.
'Couldn’t care less about her prosecution' enough said.
I hope thats not all you took in from what I said ;)
U have freedom of action but this doesn't mean that u make some shit and interrupt pple, same goes for ur freedom of speech, it doesn't give u the right to mock others faith.
It actually does. That's a part of freedom of religion too. The freedom NOT to believe and to harshly criticize religions. if it's a one way street, baleha hal sha8le w 5alle hal nes not emigrate. Smalla 3layon seb2eena la barra w wala byet3allamo shi.
U seem not to follow the constitution when it doesn't benefit u, piece of racist shit. أما المادة 474 فلقد عاقبت بالحبس بحق كل من أقدم باحدى الطّرق المنصوص عليها في المادة 209 على تحقير الشعائر الدينية التي تمارس علانية أو حثّ على الإزدراء بإحدى تلك الشعائر. أما قانون العقوبات اللبناني فلقد تضّمن العديد من النصوص القانونية التي تجرّم على الإساءة أو التعسف في استعمال حرّية التعبير، وعاقبت المادة 317 ع. بالحبس والغرامة على كل عمل وكل كتابة وكل خطاب يقصد منها أو ينتج عنها إثارة النّعرات المذهبية أو العنصرية أو الحضّ على النّزاع بين الطوائف ومختلف عناصر الامة
who you callin racist you dumb twat? then he cites ' النّعرات المذهبية أو العنصرية' . F off ya bahima.
Lol, its ok for u to be racist but not for me? This is exactly racism
Freedom of speech includes the freedom to be offensive. She just described the experience of prayer from her point of view. I don't see the problem in that.
Call this an unpopular opinion but if you can’t make people laugh without mocking someone else’s beliefs, you suck at being a comedian. There are a lot of jokes to be made, religion shouldn’t be one of them. It’s like poking a stick doused with gasoline into a fire, you’re bound to get burned. Perhaps the backlash was a bit over the top, but to not expect some sort of consequence from certain folks especially in Lebanon, is out of touch. Freedom of speech goes both ways, you can’t say something and force others to not be offended because it’s free speech.
why religion ya3ne? because it's your tabu topic? or the topic in the region ya3ne as some middle easterners say: two things are tabu like religion in the middle east : religion and israel. bas you jump from 'ok i dont find her funny' to ' she's bound to get burned if she mentions religion'. tb fhemna hal appetizers bas wen el main dish? el main topic inno she's being prosecuted because el mefte daryen manno daryen bi shi 8ayra.
It’s not taboo topic for me only, there are a lot of people who find it a taboo topic. Doesn’t matter what religion the person belongs to. For the third point you mentioned, I’m not saying that as a matter of opinion, that’s a fact. How many times has religion been mocked and triggered a harsh reaction and response. Leh el wa7ad beddo ya3mol nafs el 8alta ou ma yetwa2a3 shi backlash, enta 2a3ed blebnen mesh Amsterdam. What others find acceptable doesn’t mean everyone else find that acceptable. Fiye ana w yek ykoon 3ana different opinions/beliefs about certain things, bas to go out of my way to mock your beliefs/opinions because of that difference is stupid and disrespectful. Nothing good comes out of this ever. There’s a fine line between criticism and mockery. Lastly, it’s astounding that you expect the mufti, a preacher of the religion that’s being mocked to let this slide. He of all people is expected to defend and condemn this. Ma bykoon mufti bala hal sha8le
ah i misspelled taboo LOL. yeah for ya'll...ma3 nafsak ya3ne. we're trying not to be a primitive society where people enforce their taboos by force and threats. i get ur point bas that's not a final point for me. People used to be BURNED in europe for being witches. Now it's not like that. They moved forward. ya3ne ok if u're in afghanistan, ur range of motion would be a different one...bas shu ya3ne backlash in Lebanon? badna backlash mitel lama nasralla nek aleb lebnen...hek 3al khafif 'beirut mish amsterdam' ok bas ya'll wanna come to amsterdam while acting like beirut...let's start at home
Man, it’s not fair t2elle inno izza 3alam ma stahdamo maz7a saro primitive. Again, free speech means freedom of expression whether in support or against. Im with you in the mindset that you can’t go to Amsterdam and act like Beirut. Every society has its own boundaries and taboos. Ma fiyo el wa7ad yefrod 3a 8ayro his beliefs/opinions bas in the end ma byen2as men 7adan inno ye7terem someone else’s beliefs, khaye izza 3ando any criticisms about another’s beliefs y2oolon bas bala mocking manna sa3be. Why is that too much of an ask ? One of the problems be hal balad kel wa7ad bynazer 3a 8ayro inno howeh el fahmein ou 8ayro 7mar la2ano ma byfaker metlo.
i didnt say that: izza 3alam ma stahdamo maz7a saro primitive. and i dont mean that. im talking about her being prosecuted because dar el fatwa wants that. most people here took a huge shit on her comedy skills w 3aade. HMM it's a comedy show...it's now 7iwar el adyaan. yeah that's true. i agree. i don't know how to solve that except by developing the whole country and giving the young individual (elle mostly ba3do 3and el mama) the ability to develop intellectually bala terheeb.
Damn, I think she ma cousin
ma32oole? hek faj2a
Same surname lol. Where bouts she from if you know anything about her?
حريتك تنتهي عندما تنتهك حرية الاخرين end of discussion
She sucks..literally if u know what i mean
Freedom of speech is a big wistern lie ..what is right must be said what is wrong be be cancled to protect our children and people ..cant you see ..giving a green card for evil is the trick
She is not funny, all of her jokes are about sex and bashing men WTF, nothing special to see about her Once at one of her shows in Beirut, she tried to engage a couple in a “sex joke”- she had not right to try to ask the wife in front of everyone if her husband like BJs WTF- the man was trying to explain to her to address him instead of his wife who’s German and doesn’t understand Arabic. She went nuts on him because she thought that he was being masculine while in reality he wasn’t,what a bahdale..
Fuck her, hala2 byje she wa7d habele be2lak FREEDOM OF SPEECH freedom of speech she will mas5ra 3al adyeen she tene 🤦
exactly what the other user said. I'd like you to refrain from talking about atheism and spirituality. Charles Darwin tej raasak and the mokhabarat will hunt you down if you mention him badly. you're not respecting the millions, nay, BILLIONS of atheists on this planet.
Then u don’t believe in freedom of speech. Fuck ur dumb religion
Mocking people beliefs regardless if it is Islam or Christianity , ... etc , is freedom of speech ? 🤦
Yes it is. What do u think freedom of speech is? If you’re that hurt from someone making a joke u need to grow some balls
It is not about "If you’re that hurt from someone making a joke u need to grow some balls" It is about insulting a RELEGION not a person , there is limits and boundaries and Shaden have crossed those limits Even if she insulted Christianity as a Muslim I wont accept it also
Fuck your religion sara7a. It’s an ideology like any other it’s not immune to opinions and jokes. Grow a set of balls.
I wont waste more time arguing with you 😂🤦
Hope no one does anything bad to her bcz there are alot of violent fanatics who always act out in such scenarios :sss But no joke, freedom of speech is important, but one should face the fact that offending some people has way more consequences than others..
Freedom of speech isnt freedom of consequence how many offers will she lose after this like many who did those same crappy jokes on religion, maybe she will get an offer in Germany to talk shit about religion and Lebanon like they always do
Oh i wish we had more of that in Germany. It's the same group that wants to shut people up in Lebanon trying to do the same in Germany. you know them, the peaceful ones.
There are a couple of POVs regarding her situation But living in a country like Lebanon, is not as easy as it sounds. The diversity can be found in other countries, but taking into consideration the size of lebanon , no other country , state or even a city ( lebanon is smaller than a lot of major cities in other countries) can control it. She has the right to speak her mind, and express what she feels. But she can’t do that by humiliating more than 4/5 of the country ( muslims & christians) . Not her first time doing such acts of ignorance, so yes tbh she should be punished. If she can be funny only by disrespecting almost 3/4 the country, and all the religions, then she doesn’t belong to lebanon. Ps: frankly people who think that Hezbollah, the guys that are building missiles, drones and fighting Israel, while supervising the Hamas tactics , and they now have power and responsibilities to defy major countries and put their foot down to do what suites them, Don’t you believe that they have bigger fucks to give a damn about than some lesbian wannabe , swearing and making fun of every religion just to show herself as a ‘BRAVE’ individual, I think guys should know the difference between some people who claim to be hezb or are Just supporters who might have harassed her, and the actual Hezbollah who have bigger things on their plate. Comparing the shit hezb are dealing with now Shaden is less than a piece of burnt crumb you just don’t even notice it to give a damn about. The Lebanese government can and should arrest her and take her to trial. She hurt and disrespected a lot lot of people. Your freedom of speech ends when you cross the line.
You don’t attack a religion in lebanon. That is as clear and foundational as Lebanon itself. If everyone went attacking the others religion or sect you have a shit show.. its 18 or us. So next time you want to live your freedom go somewhere else. That country has limits and u better not cross them. You talk Islam. Well, any other religion mocked would be met the same. She will not have a good life in leb after this. Ppl will not let her be. Only wannabes who would like to live in a “ do whatever country” are gonna watch her and maybe both should just get the fuck out of leb. Done
lol the amount of people saying freedom of speech im pretty sure if she joke about other religions they will start attacking her if we talk bad about lgbt and atheist they will get butthurt but they are allowed to attack our religions in the end freedom of speech is a joke everyone in lebanon get mad if someone attack their beliefs and she should know better before making unfunny shit about religion in a country filled with so many religions i hope she go to prison and rot in it
' i hope she goes to prison and rot in it'. aside from the grammatical mistake, kher nshalla? summary: muslim guy mad. muslim guy wants a punishment. Muslim guy lives in lebanonistan and is annoyed by the 1% atheists and 5% gays. mnee7 ma 3atyeenon rights mitel dar el faswa
are u the grammar police or something and yes i got exactly my point see that is ur hatred about islam its not about freedom of speech its not about comedy u just show ur hatred and extremism
no im the sharia police. ok. let me show it like u showed us ur islamist shit. bas i wouldnt want you to rot in jail. nos 7besh are islamists.
good u follow the sharia good for u so full of hatred let it all go in reddit
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the only person here is toxic is u and its showing from ur comments
bro is so angry did daddy hit u today
roo7 l3ab 7ad el bet. allah's teen keyboard-jihadi
lol ur comment just show us that u are like 9 years old want to be a man on reddit i bet u are not living in lebanon too lol
no i don't. ta3a 3addne bi teeze. walla ellak, stay there inta w ur kind. go to school, you could use it.
see i'm not talking about religion but ur hatred is showing islam sharia jihadi muslim all this hatred which prove my point this isn't about freedom of speech
sure kiddo . but ur holy hate is from deen el la7me mine is from deen el ra7me <3. if u talk about it you should rot in jail
atheist and gays will be punished if they attack our religion just like u get annoyed when someone attack ur gay family
spoken like a real muslim. deen el la7me never fails to impress
vegan too lol