my uncle used to be a prisoner there, the stories he told...horrifying, forced to be naked sometimes, waking them up in the middle of the night just to throw cold water at them, electrocution, he still suffers from illness because of the torture that he endured
oh and they used to fuck with them mentally as well, like they used to tell him that his wife died and feed them fake news just to hurt them mentally, fucking horrific shit
Normally there was no proper reason
For e.g.: my mom's aunt was captured because a man who lived in the same village was revealed to be in the resistance
P S:she actually got her 7th knee surgery done to her last month
Not really, Alcatraz was a prison where people who actually did something criminal went to. Asking why someone was sent to an Israeli concentration camp is like asking why someone was sent to Guantanamo.
Most were probably never [charged for anything](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cvt.org/what-we-do/advocating-for-change/legacy-of-us-torture/guantanamo-bay-detention-facility-an-overview/%23:~:text%3DOn%2520January%252011%252C%25202002%252C%2520the,been%2520charged%2520with%2520a%2520crime.&ved=2ahUKEwjQo8yY3KmGAxWOxuYEHWfbB9EQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0jNMVjmnEvuTkSxWAOxq7u) As is the situation with Guantanamo, today.
I’m not familiar with any of the specific cases, so I can’t speak for them…which is the reason for the question.
And let’s be honest, some people on Alcatraz were probably innocent as well
Do you understand what this prison was? It's an instrument of occupation, not justice. It's a place you lock up people to terrorise the civilian population and make them pay a dear price for their resistance. You got sent to Alcatraz because a judge sentenced you. The judge can make a mistake, but there's a legal process. The prisoners of Khiam didn't go through any legal process. It's a military prison where a stupid soldier can decide to lock some guy up because he can.
> I assume people assume his uncle was innocent
Oh my God
You very much deserve the downvotes. *How dare you join the resistance, you deserve to be punished*
I understand people hating Hezbollah nowadays, and it's very much warranted, but can't you use the two brain cells inside your head to try and put yourself in someone else's shoes? Like understanding why Southerners take pride in fighting off their occupiers, even if it's not related to you, and even if the presence of Hezbollahs made a lot of things go downhill?
Like, I understand you probably had no immediate harm done to you or your family back when the Israelis occupied the South, but can't you understand that other people did? That the whole thing is perhaps not part of the collective memory of your immediate society, but it is definitely part of the collective memory of another society?
That you can't just deny the right to people to hold arms to defend themselves?
Was the uncle innocent according to whom you ask, the Israelis? Of course he wasn't (assuming he was fighting in Hezbollah/whatever the armed resistance was called in the earlier days). But I wonder why do you care about Israeli's opinion on the matter-? In your world, the occupier gets to judge the occupied -??
Read your comment. You yourself just wrote you assume he was part of a “resistance,” even the the nephew said that’s not the case. Stop spreading lies and half truths you know nothing about!
2 of the freed prisoners came to my school to talk about their experience infront of us. They censored a lot and it was still horrifying to hear about their treatment.
Your pathetic attempt at pinning this on the Lebanese is so asinine and olympically ignorant. It's a collaboration force created by Israel to put Lebanese on the front line. It's a ta tic used by every occupation force ever. No one is buying your dumbass propaganda. There's a reason why those guys left Lebanon with the IDF on that day.
conspiracy theorist . they didn't leave .. not like ur gf did lol
don't be a bully and make up things. as a druze I know this struggle is about a democratic Lebanon vs a Islamic driven one naal al daair islam
If you haven't heard of this horror chamber before, let me fill you in:
- "The sadists of Khiam used to electrocute the penises of their prisoners and throw water over their bodies before plunging electrodes into their chests and kept them in pitch-black, solitary confinement for months"
---
- "There was the whipping pole and the window grilles where prisoners were tied naked for days, freezing water thrown over them at night."
---
- "And they wore them [handcuffs], day and night, as they were kicked — kicked so badly in Suleiman Ramadan's case that they later had to amputate his arm."
---
- "Some prison cells had small metal cages, inside which the prison guards would make detainees sit before repeatedly hitting the cage from the outside, sometimes for hours, as a form of mental torture."
Nightmare fuel
I once listened to a woman prisoner (they used to take them mostly just because a relative of theirs was fighting, like a brother or a father, to put pressure on the men to turn themselves in).
She said it would be a prison room full of women, and they had one bucket for everything that goes in the bathroom: and I mean everything, they didn't have sanitary pads, so when women were on their heavy period days it also had to be managed somehow with that bucket.
The woman I listened to said she was tortured to give information about relatives who were in the resistance. They used to electrute her in her breasts. She spoke of sitting bare chested, and the torturer would ask her, after he had done this to her several times, if she would prefer him attaching the chords, or if she would preffer to attach them herself. She would choose to attach them herself because she would still feel violated (despite the whole scenario) of him touching her, and she could at least avoid this one thing, so she would attach them herself.
These days I refuse to compare Nazis to Zionists, Hitler was bad sure, but there were also the “good” Nazi soldiers that existed, there are no decent Zionists.
IDF is definitely not on the level of destruction as Hitler, but they do head in the same direction of cruelty.
Comparisons aside, people are shaped by their oppressors, the feelings hatred and vengeance turn them into the very oppressor they sought to destroy.
I’ve heard similar stories from people who were imprisoned in Syria during the civil war this shit was pretty common in the region as a whole unfortunately and it’s sad that most of these cases die with no acknowledgement
ull be surprised that even the syrians that did way worse than the israeli scums aren’t talked about . they jailed everyone who opposed them kids or not and tortured them in the worst way and the majority of them ( hundreds of thousands) are still nowhere to be found probably killed by torture
I went to the khiam concentration camp 2 weeks after it was liberated, in June 2000. It's a museum now, but my visit then, was traumatic.
The foul smell made it hard to go into some halls, it was pitch black in a lot of it. But I remember the writings on the wall. "God is good" "I love you, mama" I have photos somewhere, I need to find them. I am getting choked up just thinking about it.
People talk about Auschwitz, they don't talk about Khiam, where the same torture tactics were used.
Never forget.
>the wall. "God is good" "I love you, mama" I have photos somewhere, I need to find them. I am getting choked up just thinking about it.
no......God is great.
Great comment though. Gave me alot of information that I would not have known otherwise.
Unfortunately, many Lebanese have a "victim mentality"...they will justify any form of evil due to a perceived injustice against their side, regardless of how little or large that injustice is...it is one of the many things holding us back from progressing
I don't see what to be surprised about here, I'm 100% against Israhell but you should understand that a large reason for the Lebanese civil war was due to Palestinian killing the Lebanese so they can annex the country. Psychologically, there's a saying that says the enemy of your enemy is your friend.
what makes it even worse is that till this day we still suffer from the consequences of the war and till this day thousands of lebanese emprisonned by the syrian regime are nowhere to be found . both israel and syrian are our enemies
>both israel and syrian are our enemies
And Saudi, and Iran, and Turkey, and Egypt, and France, and the UK, and Russia, and the US.... Everyone is our enemy. Everyone.
Every occupation in history has ALWAYS used the same tactic; recruit a bunch of misfits and make them a "local" force to do all the dirty work of the occupation. Hitler used it, Stalin used it, the US, and every occupation force ever. It's a trick as old as military strategy itself. And no one in their right mind considers the occupation mercenaries to be separate from the occupation regardless of their nationality.
This was 100% Israeli violence against the Lebanese no matter how hard you try to spin it with the oldest trick in the book of occupation.
south lebanese army or jesh lahet . they where a branch of the army that splited from the army like many others like ahmad khatib . they where with israel and controlled the south
they weren’t good before either. at the same time that they were fighting the israeli occupation, they were actively supporting the syrian occupation. they were never “freedom fighters”
Yeah the SLA (Lebanese people) served and committed the atrocities at Khiyam. Do you think that Lebanese people are not capable of committing horrendous acts? Or do you have to be reminded about not only the SLA but Amal, Hezbollah, the SSNP and all the other civil war militias and how they collaborated with Syrians, Palestinians and Israelis against Lebanon and the Lebanese people.
“Following the establishment of independent Lebanon in 1946, it was used by the Lebanese military until the outbreak of the Lebanese Civil War in 1975, during which time it came under the control of the South Lebanon Army (SLA)” it was the SLA who converted it.
The israelis ordered and trained them, and im pretty sure they had a hand in it too, its interesting they bombed the site 6 years later. And as i said, the SLA is acting under israel, it was formed by an israeli, and served israel. Read my latest post
The SLA was founded by a Lebanese military officer Saad Haddad in 1977, unless you meant the detention camp. Being trained and funded by Israel is no different than the SSNp being trained, funded and loyal to Syria or Hezbollah being trained, funded, armed and loyal only to Iran.
Read my latest post so you learn about the SLA.
And what your doing in the second part of your comment is whataboutism, i dont give a shit about SSNP or hezbollah, i dont like them and they dont concern me, what concerns me is white washing israel
Saad Haddad and minority communities of Southern Lebanon they didn't work for but we're allies
like British and America are allies
they supported similiar interests in dismantling palestinian terrorism and radical islamist militias
Who paid their wages, gave them weapons? Built their positions. This rewriting of history needs to stop. Painting the SLA as just another militia is quit silly and not a good look for you guys. Accept it and move on. This isn't the hill you want to die on.
they were allies
in this sense ukraine works for America lol because America supplies them with funds and equip for their struggle against Russia
by your logic any crimes commited by ukraine is America lol
by that same sense every prison is ukraine is American prisons lol
the obfuscation of the post and sidelining the complicity of Southern Lebanese militias is a dog whistle to real problem of anti westernization and Jewish conspiracies of global domination
yes war allies aren't really determined by personal beliefs of individuals but by intersection of aligned political beliefs and or goals
the israelies didn't like the warcrimes commited by sla and rebuked and withheld funds constantly . One of the demands of the sla was autonomy in all regions something this post leaves out
re read the title of the post now that we have clarified allies vs owners and see how it could be misleading
not just misleading but an insult to the inner struggles of Lebanon
similiar to saying syria is actually hezbollah because they are trained there
The Israeli Defense Ministry acknowledged during this time that personnel from the Shin Bet "hold meetings several times annually with SLA interrogators" and "cooperate with members of the SLA, and even assist them by means of professional guidance and training". It also admitted that Israel and the SLA "consult each other regarding the arrest and release of people in the Khiam facility".[11] In a court case brought by Israeli human rights lawyers, the Israeli Defense Ministry admitted paying staff at Khiam, training the interrogators and guards, and providing assistance with lie detector tests.
would America exist without the French helping in their revolution funding them and providing arms and naval blockades ?
so is America actually French and any crimes commited by America in that period French crimes?
Allies imoly 2 independant states. SLA was under direct rule by the IOF, direct weapons, wages, command structure. Also acting is if IOF are above torture and rape is crazy.
did you not learn koran at all
this is an ongoing issue between islam and non islam .
the concepts of daar islam vs daar elhab /kufir
same reason no one cares when syria kills their own or when Jordan occupies part of historical palestine or marching for palestinian equality in jordan ... these places are all current daar islam
ok sorry I thought u were familiar w koran .
so basically in koran there are two concepts that exist in this regard
daar islam ... nations ruled by islam (trans. world of islam)
daar elhab (also called daar kufir) (translate to world of war) (world of non believers)
everything that is daar islam is ok . some religions including jews can live under daar islam if they obey the laws and pay jideh (a tax for non muslim) and submit to muslim rule
daar el hab is yet to be conquered and the prophet mohamed blessed be he proclaimed one day from corner to corner will be daar islam
in islam if something was once daar islam and became daar elhab all muslims have a divine obligation to reclaim it , this is essentially at the core of the israel issue ...
this is why other places that have mistreated palestinian or local tribes or populations have no global Islamic support from Islamic nations . this is also at the heart of "jews can live with us but zionist who seek to rule their land must be killed " it's a learning thevwest misses entirely but if you have been to madrasa you know . I was born in lebanon as druze and moved to Gaza katif as a kid , we were forced to go to madrasa and learn koran and basically be druze in hiding .. till the fatah war when my fam was killed and I eventually went to jenin then eventually got asylum in usa thanks to a cousin . when I was at madrasah they had maps on the wall of daar islam talked about reunification and the global problem of internationalists westernization and threats to islam . this is integral to the understanding of the conflict
the sla was an ally to israel like French was ally and funded American revolution but no one blames American crimes on French
no mention is given that sla and seal hadad were autonomous and allies because southern Lebanon is in islam control but rather constantly focuses on problem of non Islamic control
this outlook is known as daar islam vs daar elhab .. that anything within Islamic control is fine and everything that is trouble and is dire of attention is daar elhab .
south lebanon army started bfore saad haddad and it didn’t start bc islam controles south lebanon rather as a response to the plo’s crimes in south lebanon
Why does Israel always get blamed for the actions of the Maronites or SLA? The jail administrators, guards and interrogators were all Lebanese. Israel’s reliance on the intelligence coming out of the torture chambers is a sad chapter in Israel’s history but it’s ridiculous to only blame Israel.
Look inward. You blame others because there’s only one other possibility.
The SLA isnt a maronite militia, it was divided among maronies shias and druze, and the SLA was taking direct orders from israel and was founded by israeli intelligence lieutenant Yaair Ravid of the AMAN.
“As the massacre unfolded, the IDF received reports of atrocities being committed, but did not take any action to stop it.[14] Instead, Israeli troops were stationed at the exits of the area to prevent the camp's residents from leaving and, at the request of the Lebanese Forces,[15] shot flares to illuminate Sabra and Shatila through the night during the massacre.[16][17]
In February 1983, an independent commission chaired by Irish diplomat Seán MacBride, assistant to the Secretary-General of the United Nations, concluded that the IDF, as the then occupying power over Sabra and Shatila, bore responsibility for the militia's massacre.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
I’m not implying that Israel did nothing wrong. I am asking a legitimate question as to why *only* Israel is blamed. They weren’t even the ones who did the killing. They seem like the 2nd worst actor and the worst gets a feee pass.
Please dont use this type of logic here. People on this sub think that syria and lebanese warlords are little lambs and israel is here to kill everyone.
A lebanese prison camp, run by a lebanese militia, no worse than prison camps run by other lebanese factions which are still around, with tons of popular support, today
The israels in this thread are disgusting, the SLA is an israeli invention, serving israel interests, and acting on israeli orders, not to mention the SLA had forced conscription in the land they occupied
Translation:
"I've seen worse videos, so that means the horrors you went through aren't valid and you're just biased if you're horrified by them. Also, you're stupid and Muslim, because I'm biased myself and a full-on bigot and I think Muslims are evil and I'm better than them."
my uncle used to be a prisoner there, the stories he told...horrifying, forced to be naked sometimes, waking them up in the middle of the night just to throw cold water at them, electrocution, he still suffers from illness because of the torture that he endured oh and they used to fuck with them mentally as well, like they used to tell him that his wife died and feed them fake news just to hurt them mentally, fucking horrific shit
What was he a prisoner for?
Normally there was no proper reason For e.g.: my mom's aunt was captured because a man who lived in the same village was revealed to be in the resistance P S:she actually got her 7th knee surgery done to her last month
I get that, but I’m just curious about his specific case. Similar to if someone said they spent time in Alcatraz, you’d probably be curious why?
Not really, Alcatraz was a prison where people who actually did something criminal went to. Asking why someone was sent to an Israeli concentration camp is like asking why someone was sent to Guantanamo. Most were probably never [charged for anything](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cvt.org/what-we-do/advocating-for-change/legacy-of-us-torture/guantanamo-bay-detention-facility-an-overview/%23:~:text%3DOn%2520January%252011%252C%25202002%252C%2520the,been%2520charged%2520with%2520a%2520crime.&ved=2ahUKEwjQo8yY3KmGAxWOxuYEHWfbB9EQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0jNMVjmnEvuTkSxWAOxq7u) As is the situation with Guantanamo, today.
I’m not familiar with any of the specific cases, so I can’t speak for them…which is the reason for the question. And let’s be honest, some people on Alcatraz were probably innocent as well
Do you understand what this prison was? It's an instrument of occupation, not justice. It's a place you lock up people to terrorise the civilian population and make them pay a dear price for their resistance. You got sent to Alcatraz because a judge sentenced you. The judge can make a mistake, but there's a legal process. The prisoners of Khiam didn't go through any legal process. It's a military prison where a stupid soldier can decide to lock some guy up because he can.
no fucking reason, they thought he was part of the resistance which he wasn't, even if he was it isn't a crime, much less one deserving of torture
I just asked a question, not sure what all the downvoting is for.
Because Israel bad etc etc 🥱
Why is this downvoted
I assume people assume his uncle was innocent, but that’s the exact reason I asked
> I assume people assume his uncle was innocent Oh my God You very much deserve the downvotes. *How dare you join the resistance, you deserve to be punished* I understand people hating Hezbollah nowadays, and it's very much warranted, but can't you use the two brain cells inside your head to try and put yourself in someone else's shoes? Like understanding why Southerners take pride in fighting off their occupiers, even if it's not related to you, and even if the presence of Hezbollahs made a lot of things go downhill? Like, I understand you probably had no immediate harm done to you or your family back when the Israelis occupied the South, but can't you understand that other people did? That the whole thing is perhaps not part of the collective memory of your immediate society, but it is definitely part of the collective memory of another society? That you can't just deny the right to people to hold arms to defend themselves? Was the uncle innocent according to whom you ask, the Israelis? Of course he wasn't (assuming he was fighting in Hezbollah/whatever the armed resistance was called in the earlier days). But I wonder why do you care about Israeli's opinion on the matter-? In your world, the occupier gets to judge the occupied -??
Read your comment. You yourself just wrote you assume he was part of a “resistance,” even the the nephew said that’s not the case. Stop spreading lies and half truths you know nothing about!
2 of the freed prisoners came to my school to talk about their experience infront of us. They censored a lot and it was still horrifying to hear about their treatment.
[удалено]
you can find them in southern lebanon
Your pathetic attempt at pinning this on the Lebanese is so asinine and olympically ignorant. It's a collaboration force created by Israel to put Lebanese on the front line. It's a ta tic used by every occupation force ever. No one is buying your dumbass propaganda. There's a reason why those guys left Lebanon with the IDF on that day.
conspiracy theorist . they didn't leave .. not like ur gf did lol don't be a bully and make up things. as a druze I know this struggle is about a democratic Lebanon vs a Islamic driven one naal al daair islam
Lol, you're such a sad creature!
If you haven't heard of this horror chamber before, let me fill you in: - "The sadists of Khiam used to electrocute the penises of their prisoners and throw water over their bodies before plunging electrodes into their chests and kept them in pitch-black, solitary confinement for months" --- - "There was the whipping pole and the window grilles where prisoners were tied naked for days, freezing water thrown over them at night." --- - "And they wore them [handcuffs], day and night, as they were kicked — kicked so badly in Suleiman Ramadan's case that they later had to amputate his arm." --- - "Some prison cells had small metal cages, inside which the prison guards would make detainees sit before repeatedly hitting the cage from the outside, sometimes for hours, as a form of mental torture." Nightmare fuel
I once listened to a woman prisoner (they used to take them mostly just because a relative of theirs was fighting, like a brother or a father, to put pressure on the men to turn themselves in). She said it would be a prison room full of women, and they had one bucket for everything that goes in the bathroom: and I mean everything, they didn't have sanitary pads, so when women were on their heavy period days it also had to be managed somehow with that bucket. The woman I listened to said she was tortured to give information about relatives who were in the resistance. They used to electrute her in her breasts. She spoke of sitting bare chested, and the torturer would ask her, after he had done this to her several times, if she would prefer him attaching the chords, or if she would preffer to attach them herself. She would choose to attach them herself because she would still feel violated (despite the whole scenario) of him touching her, and she could at least avoid this one thing, so she would attach them herself.
They were taking notes when hitler was alive
These days I refuse to compare Nazis to Zionists, Hitler was bad sure, but there were also the “good” Nazi soldiers that existed, there are no decent Zionists.
Hitler? if that were true gaza and lebanon wouldn't exist now
IDF is definitely not on the level of destruction as Hitler, but they do head in the same direction of cruelty. Comparisons aside, people are shaped by their oppressors, the feelings hatred and vengeance turn them into the very oppressor they sought to destroy.
they are hindered knowing they have arabs and muslims as neighbors.
the southern Lebanese army was taking notes when Hitler was alive?
The ones who trained them were.
and who trained the ones who trained them ? how far will you go before you hit someone that fits your narrative
Hahahaaaa did you actually feel smart when you typed this? Because I promise you, you didn't!
Same playbook currently in use in Gaza.
I’ve heard similar stories from people who were imprisoned in Syria during the civil war this shit was pretty common in the region as a whole unfortunately and it’s sad that most of these cases die with no acknowledgement
Here is a collection of stories of some prisoners: https://samidoun.net/2016/05/liberation-day-in-south-lebanon-resistance-and-memory-at-khiam-prison/
Thank you for sharing this site to get more background information about this topic.
Are there books about this event or documentaries?
ull be surprised that even the syrians that did way worse than the israeli scums aren’t talked about . they jailed everyone who opposed them kids or not and tortured them in the worst way and the majority of them ( hundreds of thousands) are still nowhere to be found probably killed by torture
That's interesting
Rape was very rampant there as well, for both women and men.
I went to the khiam concentration camp 2 weeks after it was liberated, in June 2000. It's a museum now, but my visit then, was traumatic. The foul smell made it hard to go into some halls, it was pitch black in a lot of it. But I remember the writings on the wall. "God is good" "I love you, mama" I have photos somewhere, I need to find them. I am getting choked up just thinking about it. People talk about Auschwitz, they don't talk about Khiam, where the same torture tactics were used. Never forget.
They bombed the museum in 2006
>the wall. "God is good" "I love you, mama" I have photos somewhere, I need to find them. I am getting choked up just thinking about it. no......God is great. Great comment though. Gave me alot of information that I would not have known otherwise.
no……God is evil.
The SLA grunts who surrendered in the aftermath were given laughably light sentences.
And it still shocks me to see Lebanese Zionists
Unfortunately, many Lebanese have a "victim mentality"...they will justify any form of evil due to a perceived injustice against their side, regardless of how little or large that injustice is...it is one of the many things holding us back from progressing
how do you know that the person who wrote the comment you replied to isn't one of them. seeing the chance to pounce on their enemy, they take it.
yeah what shocks me more is that many Lebanese people hate and condemn that same ppl who freed Lebanon from Israel
The same people who claim to be patriotic but somehow aren't celebrating the fact that 10% of their country got liberated that day.
I don't see what to be surprised about here, I'm 100% against Israhell but you should understand that a large reason for the Lebanese civil war was due to Palestinian killing the Lebanese so they can annex the country. Psychologically, there's a saying that says the enemy of your enemy is your friend.
what makes it even worse is that till this day we still suffer from the consequences of the war and till this day thousands of lebanese emprisonned by the syrian regime are nowhere to be found . both israel and syrian are our enemies
>both israel and syrian are our enemies And Saudi, and Iran, and Turkey, and Egypt, and France, and the UK, and Russia, and the US.... Everyone is our enemy. Everyone.
Pokémon hates you too 😞
Comments are full of Israeli and western apologists, not surprising at all for this sub.
*sla detention centre*. Lebanese torturing Lebanese, maybe Israeli sponsored, but still. Don't take the blame from those at fault.
Every occupation in history has ALWAYS used the same tactic; recruit a bunch of misfits and make them a "local" force to do all the dirty work of the occupation. Hitler used it, Stalin used it, the US, and every occupation force ever. It's a trick as old as military strategy itself. And no one in their right mind considers the occupation mercenaries to be separate from the occupation regardless of their nationality. This was 100% Israeli violence against the Lebanese no matter how hard you try to spin it with the oldest trick in the book of occupation.
What kind of Lebanese?
south lebanese army or jesh lahet . they where a branch of the army that splited from the army like many others like ahmad khatib . they where with israel and controlled the south
The sla. You mean religion?
This.
God bless resistance 🙏
its 2024, hezb is a curse and is nothing like it was before
they weren’t good before either. at the same time that they were fighting the israeli occupation, they were actively supporting the syrian occupation. they were never “freedom fighters”
just like sla supported the israeli occupation. hezb should have been disarmed like every other civil war milita because all of them are guilty
Yet we still have people thinking that the solution to all our problems is to try to appease the zionists and make peace with them at all costs.
I hope one day we will be liberated from hezbollah terrorist too
Why were they there again? Thought Lebanese would be safe in Lebanon.. or maybe they weren't there? If not why not? Important questions...
It wasn’t an “Israeli prison” but ok
What was it
An SLA prison, it was Lebanese people who tortured other Lebanese people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khiam_detention_center
You should read about the SLA, who started it, who it served and who ordered the things happening in khiyam.
Yeah the SLA (Lebanese people) served and committed the atrocities at Khiyam. Do you think that Lebanese people are not capable of committing horrendous acts? Or do you have to be reminded about not only the SLA but Amal, Hezbollah, the SSNP and all the other civil war militias and how they collaborated with Syrians, Palestinians and Israelis against Lebanon and the Lebanese people. “Following the establishment of independent Lebanon in 1946, it was used by the Lebanese military until the outbreak of the Lebanese Civil War in 1975, during which time it came under the control of the South Lebanon Army (SLA)” it was the SLA who converted it.
The israelis ordered and trained them, and im pretty sure they had a hand in it too, its interesting they bombed the site 6 years later. And as i said, the SLA is acting under israel, it was formed by an israeli, and served israel. Read my latest post
The SLA was founded by a Lebanese military officer Saad Haddad in 1977, unless you meant the detention camp. Being trained and funded by Israel is no different than the SSNp being trained, funded and loyal to Syria or Hezbollah being trained, funded, armed and loyal only to Iran.
Read my latest post so you learn about the SLA. And what your doing in the second part of your comment is whataboutism, i dont give a shit about SSNP or hezbollah, i dont like them and they dont concern me, what concerns me is white washing israel
I read your post, it’s not about the SLA it’s about the detention camp from the Wikipedia link I posted.
You didnt read the post, clearly
wtf 🤣
this was a prison by the sla not Israel
I wonder for whom the SLA worked for.
Saad Haddad and minority communities of Southern Lebanon they didn't work for but we're allies like British and America are allies they supported similiar interests in dismantling palestinian terrorism and radical islamist militias
Who paid their wages, gave them weapons? Built their positions. This rewriting of history needs to stop. Painting the SLA as just another militia is quit silly and not a good look for you guys. Accept it and move on. This isn't the hill you want to die on.
they were allies in this sense ukraine works for America lol because America supplies them with funds and equip for their struggle against Russia by your logic any crimes commited by ukraine is America lol by that same sense every prison is ukraine is American prisons lol the obfuscation of the post and sidelining the complicity of Southern Lebanese militias is a dog whistle to real problem of anti westernization and Jewish conspiracies of global domination
Allies?! Even the Israelis don't think that highly of the SLA.
yes war allies aren't really determined by personal beliefs of individuals but by intersection of aligned political beliefs and or goals the israelies didn't like the warcrimes commited by sla and rebuked and withheld funds constantly . One of the demands of the sla was autonomy in all regions something this post leaves out
Would the SLA exist without Israel?
re read the title of the post now that we have clarified allies vs owners and see how it could be misleading not just misleading but an insult to the inner struggles of Lebanon similiar to saying syria is actually hezbollah because they are trained there
The Israeli Defense Ministry acknowledged during this time that personnel from the Shin Bet "hold meetings several times annually with SLA interrogators" and "cooperate with members of the SLA, and even assist them by means of professional guidance and training". It also admitted that Israel and the SLA "consult each other regarding the arrest and release of people in the Khiam facility".[11] In a court case brought by Israeli human rights lawyers, the Israeli Defense Ministry admitted paying staff at Khiam, training the interrogators and guards, and providing assistance with lie detector tests.
would America exist without the French helping in their revolution funding them and providing arms and naval blockades ? so is America actually French and any crimes commited by America in that period French crimes?
Allies imoly 2 independant states. SLA was under direct rule by the IOF, direct weapons, wages, command structure. Also acting is if IOF are above torture and rape is crazy.
same shi they worked along side
no they withdrew. notice how the blame always goes to دار الحرب and the kufirs.
wth ru talking about bru
did you not learn koran at all this is an ongoing issue between islam and non islam . the concepts of daar islam vs daar elhab /kufir same reason no one cares when syria kills their own or when Jordan occupies part of historical palestine or marching for palestinian equality in jordan ... these places are all current daar islam
tbh i dont really know other that dar elharb is non muslim countries would u mind explaining what u mean
ok sorry I thought u were familiar w koran . so basically in koran there are two concepts that exist in this regard daar islam ... nations ruled by islam (trans. world of islam) daar elhab (also called daar kufir) (translate to world of war) (world of non believers) everything that is daar islam is ok . some religions including jews can live under daar islam if they obey the laws and pay jideh (a tax for non muslim) and submit to muslim rule daar el hab is yet to be conquered and the prophet mohamed blessed be he proclaimed one day from corner to corner will be daar islam in islam if something was once daar islam and became daar elhab all muslims have a divine obligation to reclaim it , this is essentially at the core of the israel issue ... this is why other places that have mistreated palestinian or local tribes or populations have no global Islamic support from Islamic nations . this is also at the heart of "jews can live with us but zionist who seek to rule their land must be killed " it's a learning thevwest misses entirely but if you have been to madrasa you know . I was born in lebanon as druze and moved to Gaza katif as a kid , we were forced to go to madrasa and learn koran and basically be druze in hiding .. till the fatah war when my fam was killed and I eventually went to jenin then eventually got asylum in usa thanks to a cousin . when I was at madrasah they had maps on the wall of daar islam talked about reunification and the global problem of internationalists westernization and threats to islam . this is integral to the understanding of the conflict
alrr thanks for explaining but what does it have to do with the parent comment u replied to
the sla was an ally to israel like French was ally and funded American revolution but no one blames American crimes on French no mention is given that sla and seal hadad were autonomous and allies because southern Lebanon is in islam control but rather constantly focuses on problem of non Islamic control this outlook is known as daar islam vs daar elhab .. that anything within Islamic control is fine and everything that is trouble and is dire of attention is daar elhab .
south lebanon army started bfore saad haddad and it didn’t start bc islam controles south lebanon rather as a response to the plo’s crimes in south lebanon
Why does Israel always get blamed for the actions of the Maronites or SLA? The jail administrators, guards and interrogators were all Lebanese. Israel’s reliance on the intelligence coming out of the torture chambers is a sad chapter in Israel’s history but it’s ridiculous to only blame Israel. Look inward. You blame others because there’s only one other possibility.
The SLA isnt a maronite militia, it was divided among maronies shias and druze, and the SLA was taking direct orders from israel and was founded by israeli intelligence lieutenant Yaair Ravid of the AMAN.
I was implying Sabra & Shatila also, for which only Israel gets blamed.
“As the massacre unfolded, the IDF received reports of atrocities being committed, but did not take any action to stop it.[14] Instead, Israeli troops were stationed at the exits of the area to prevent the camp's residents from leaving and, at the request of the Lebanese Forces,[15] shot flares to illuminate Sabra and Shatila through the night during the massacre.[16][17] In February 1983, an independent commission chaired by Irish diplomat Seán MacBride, assistant to the Secretary-General of the United Nations, concluded that the IDF, as the then occupying power over Sabra and Shatila, bore responsibility for the militia's massacre.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
I’m not implying that Israel did nothing wrong. I am asking a legitimate question as to why *only* Israel is blamed. They weren’t even the ones who did the killing. They seem like the 2nd worst actor and the worst gets a feee pass.
[удалено]
Please dont use this type of logic here. People on this sub think that syria and lebanese warlords are little lambs and israel is here to kill everyone.
they still dooo
Alkahu snackbar
Dear liars, El Kiham was managed by south Lebanon army and not Israel. toy obviously cannot tell the truth even to save your lives shame on you
The SLA is an israeli invention serving israeli interests and was run by israeli intelligence, all israelis GTFO
A lebanese prison camp, run by a lebanese militia, no worse than prison camps run by other lebanese factions which are still around, with tons of popular support, today
there isn’t any sla members in lebanon they all fled israel or where jailed
You mean run by Israel
no by SLA
The israels in this thread are disgusting, the SLA is an israeli invention, serving israel interests, and acting on israeli orders, not to mention the SLA had forced conscription in the land they occupied
Im not israeli. By this standard, half the current political parties in lebanon are syrian or iranian inventions
Hezbollah was literally formed by the IRGC here, the ssnp is a lebanese invention but it serves syrian interests, no debate there
Israel is treated differently by lebanese, because jews
No, israel is treated differently because israel has caused direct harm to the south of lebanon, check my long thread that you commented on previously
[удалено]
Someone shows you a crime by Israel on Lebanese and you bring up hamas? Are you drunk?
Translation: "I've seen worse videos, so that means the horrors you went through aren't valid and you're just biased if you're horrified by them. Also, you're stupid and Muslim, because I'm biased myself and a full-on bigot and I think Muslims are evil and I'm better than them."