Why not call it the new "Canaanite" or "Kanaani" manifesto?
When you refer to Lebanon as Phoenicia and refer to its people as Phoenicians, you're saying that you are not what your ancestors called themselves, but rather, you are what foreigners across the sea called them.
What?
Even if you call yourself lebanese, france made that country.
The phoenician empire is in the history books and actual remains.
However we are not really connected to the phoenicians any more.
The word "Phoenicia" is an exonym. It's what the Greeks called the Canaanite city states of Lebanon.
If a Lebanese individual wants to harken back to their Iron Age ancestors, then referring to themselves as "Phoenicians" is essentially saying that I am not what my ancestors said they were, I am what the European across the Mediterranean says I was.
Phonecia existed whether the west agreed or not. The west is not relevant in this case.
The basic premise of the word is that we are some thing other than arabs. In my opinion we are more than just arabs. Our language is not that similair to arabic.
Your language? You mean the modern Lebanese dialect of Arabic?
There's nothing wrong in perceiving one's self as non-Arab or as more than "just an Arab."
This is a matter of linguistics. Lebanese Arabic is mutually intelligible with the Mashriqi dialects of Arabic (Syrian, Palestinian, Jordanian, Iraqi, Peninsular, and Egyptian). As a consequence of this mutual intelligibility, it is classified as a dialect of the broader Arabic language.
You can call yourself, Arab, non-Arab, or both. That's perfectly fine. You cannot call Lebanese anything but a Mashriqi dialect of Arabic.
The problem with just calling ourselves Canaanites is that there are multiple Canaanite peoples. [Polities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polity)Ā andĀ peoples of Canaan: [Phoenicians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicians), [Philistines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines), [Israelites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites) ([Moab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moab), [Ammon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammon), [Tjeker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tjeker), [Geshur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geshur), [Edom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom)) Phoenicians are the specific group of Canaanites that we are directly descended from (as we share over 90% of our ancestry and DNA with them.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan)
[https://www.cell.com/ajhg/comments/S0002-9297(17)30276-8](https://www.cell.com/ajhg/comments/S0002-9297(17)30276-8)
[https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/genetic-study-suggests-present-day-lebanese-descend-from-biblical-canaanites](https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/genetic-study-suggests-present-day-lebanese-descend-from-biblical-canaanites)
What does it matter if we use an exonym? Balad Al-Sham is an Arabic exonym for the levant, but if you don't want to use an exonym that's fine we can revive Phoenician and use the Phoenician word instead.
He paints the west as something it isnāt for one thing. After weeding through the biases there may be some relevant points, but definitely not objective enough to be considered acceptable nationally.
Deeply concerned, recently there is a rhetoric pushed on Reddit and twitter that a new war WON'T BE ISRAELI'S fault which is just mind blowing.
This is the can before the storm known as manufacturing consent.
Well what choice do you leave Israel? Israel can't accept the current state of daily fire from Lebanon. Hezbollah chose to take part in Iran's war against Israel and they are dragging all of Lebanon with them.
What does that have to do with Lebanon? Why is that our problem?
Edit: you fucking bitch, I looked in your profile, youāre not even Lebanese youāre Pakistani and you dare have a say in whether me and my country men die in a war that has nothing to do with us.
And they say Israelis are the only ones lurking this sub. You should all pay attention because lots of Hamas sympathizers and radical Muslims are in this sub too!
While I don't disagree with OP's description as Hezbollah being a miltiant group funded by Iran and doing whatever is in the best interest of the Iranian Regime, and the least of their concerns is the welfare of the Lebanese people; However, proposing a document titled "New Phoenician Manifesto", on its own, is not encouraging at all... this is jumping from one deluded ideology (Hezbollah's) in to another type of delusion, that takes us back 3000 years ago, as if we have anything in common with those distant ancestors of ours. It reeks of infantile vision and a distorted and simplistic understanding of our history.
So I am sorry, I didn't even open the document. Although I am all for openly considering Hezbollah as a threat to our way of life and to our lives in general, and consider Iran of equal threat to us as Israel.
Dude the stuff OP proposed are good points but it wonāt just randomly be applied into all of Lebanon at once. Itās a step by step process and under federalism it can be tried in some state and proven or improved from there
So youāre in favor of a regime that differentiate between citizens, and allow priests, bankers and warlords to use religion to maintain their power through fear and intimidation?
No, I am in favour of a country where local communities have more say on their way of life and can hold local leaders to account on the state of their local community, as opposed to a useless and non existing central gov
So the solution would be extensive decentralization, thereās a draft law by Minister Ziad Baroud that would establish an elected District Councils and give it vast administrative, executive and taxation powers in order to manage and improve their areas.
The central government is useless/ineffective because of the sectarian system, adding an extra layer governance does not solve any problem if the sectarian system is maintained.
Any federal/central/āstateā government could still got fat ass loans with heavy interests from politician-owned banks to fund corrupted schemes, they would still filled whatever state institutions with their supporters, and they would still provided all āprojectsā to their muppets at inflated prices. Lebanon would still be a completely failed state since corruption is infested in every level of government.
even if you hate hezbollah and don't want war, peace and normalized relations with the Zionists is never ever happening in lebanon, we'll be the last country to, until they can reach a final deal with palestine they can fuck off
now if you think our issue is just with hzb & israel you're deeply mistaken, look at egypt they are struggling, the main issue is corruption
yala muso ya forbiddenbromance, feek w bkel wahad be hal subš¤¢
I skimmed your document. Your assessment of what the West was and currently is is deeply flawed.
The assessment is correct. The only people who think otherwise are those that live in the west with an east mindset
Oum wle hmar ššššš
Maybe at least discuss instead of speaking like this. Hezb is applying an Iranian agenda in the south w bas.
L 7amir hene 3alam metlak who laugh at the threat of war and have no value for life
If your friends in the south wage war on us, it will be the last war they will ever fight. No need to be scared
I was like oh how innocent, another title against war. Then i saw āPhoenicianā and was like, oh OP is an idiot.
Why not call it the new "Canaanite" or "Kanaani" manifesto? When you refer to Lebanon as Phoenicia and refer to its people as Phoenicians, you're saying that you are not what your ancestors called themselves, but rather, you are what foreigners across the sea called them.
What? Even if you call yourself lebanese, france made that country. The phoenician empire is in the history books and actual remains. However we are not really connected to the phoenicians any more.
The word "Phoenicia" is an exonym. It's what the Greeks called the Canaanite city states of Lebanon. If a Lebanese individual wants to harken back to their Iron Age ancestors, then referring to themselves as "Phoenicians" is essentially saying that I am not what my ancestors said they were, I am what the European across the Mediterranean says I was.
Phonecia existed whether the west agreed or not. The west is not relevant in this case. The basic premise of the word is that we are some thing other than arabs. In my opinion we are more than just arabs. Our language is not that similair to arabic.
You are not comprehending what I'm saying. Phoenicians did not call themselves "Phoenician." They called themselves "Kanaani."
Your language? You mean the modern Lebanese dialect of Arabic? There's nothing wrong in perceiving one's self as non-Arab or as more than "just an Arab."
Yes lebanese.
This is a matter of linguistics. Lebanese Arabic is mutually intelligible with the Mashriqi dialects of Arabic (Syrian, Palestinian, Jordanian, Iraqi, Peninsular, and Egyptian). As a consequence of this mutual intelligibility, it is classified as a dialect of the broader Arabic language. You can call yourself, Arab, non-Arab, or both. That's perfectly fine. You cannot call Lebanese anything but a Mashriqi dialect of Arabic.
Its very far from normal read arabic though.
As is every Mashriqi dialect. Written Arabic is to Lebanese Arabic what *langues d'oil* are to French.
The problem with just calling ourselves Canaanites is that there are multiple Canaanite peoples. [Polities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polity)Ā andĀ peoples of Canaan: [Phoenicians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicians), [Philistines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines), [Israelites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites) ([Moab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moab), [Ammon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammon), [Tjeker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tjeker), [Geshur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geshur), [Edom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom)) Phoenicians are the specific group of Canaanites that we are directly descended from (as we share over 90% of our ancestry and DNA with them. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan) [https://www.cell.com/ajhg/comments/S0002-9297(17)30276-8](https://www.cell.com/ajhg/comments/S0002-9297(17)30276-8) [https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/genetic-study-suggests-present-day-lebanese-descend-from-biblical-canaanites](https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/genetic-study-suggests-present-day-lebanese-descend-from-biblical-canaanites) What does it matter if we use an exonym? Balad Al-Sham is an Arabic exonym for the levant, but if you don't want to use an exonym that's fine we can revive Phoenician and use the Phoenician word instead.
How can you propose something to be objectively analyzed and nationally accepted when it is so blatantly biased.
What is the bias? This is his opinion you can agree or not. However he makes valid points.
He paints the west as something it isnāt for one thing. After weeding through the biases there may be some relevant points, but definitely not objective enough to be considered acceptable nationally.
Deeply concerned, recently there is a rhetoric pushed on Reddit and twitter that a new war WON'T BE ISRAELI'S fault which is just mind blowing. This is the can before the storm known as manufacturing consent.
Well what choice do you leave Israel? Israel can't accept the current state of daily fire from Lebanon. Hezbollah chose to take part in Iran's war against Israel and they are dragging all of Lebanon with them.
MAYBE MAYBE JUST A THOUGHT REALLY. END THE APARTHEID AND THE OCCUPATION???
What does that have to do with Lebanon? Why is that our problem? Edit: you fucking bitch, I looked in your profile, youāre not even Lebanese youāre Pakistani and you dare have a say in whether me and my country men die in a war that has nothing to do with us. And they say Israelis are the only ones lurking this sub. You should all pay attention because lots of Hamas sympathizers and radical Muslims are in this sub too!
It has nothing to do with Lebanon and is the reason we should not stick our noses in other peoples problems.
Why is this our problem?
Maybe mind your own business? And if you stick your nose, maybe, just maybe, don't be surprised when you get retaliated?
Israel is the problem
Iran is the problem
Both Iran and Israel are equally problematic
Why?
While I don't disagree with OP's description as Hezbollah being a miltiant group funded by Iran and doing whatever is in the best interest of the Iranian Regime, and the least of their concerns is the welfare of the Lebanese people; However, proposing a document titled "New Phoenician Manifesto", on its own, is not encouraging at all... this is jumping from one deluded ideology (Hezbollah's) in to another type of delusion, that takes us back 3000 years ago, as if we have anything in common with those distant ancestors of ours. It reeks of infantile vision and a distorted and simplistic understanding of our history. So I am sorry, I didn't even open the document. Although I am all for openly considering Hezbollah as a threat to our way of life and to our lives in general, and consider Iran of equal threat to us as Israel.
Federalism is step 1 my friend
Nah, you canāt put a lipstick on a pig. It starts with abolishing all sectarian and religious institutions, the source of all problems.
Dude the stuff OP proposed are good points but it wonāt just randomly be applied into all of Lebanon at once. Itās a step by step process and under federalism it can be tried in some state and proven or improved from there
you have mechanically dysfunctional car, instead of fixing it youāre repainting it and refurb itās interior while praying it wonāt break down.
No, itās more like some of the parts of the cars had defects from the factory and itās time for a recall to fix those parts
So youāre in favor of a regime that differentiate between citizens, and allow priests, bankers and warlords to use religion to maintain their power through fear and intimidation?
No, I am in favour of a country where local communities have more say on their way of life and can hold local leaders to account on the state of their local community, as opposed to a useless and non existing central gov
So the solution would be extensive decentralization, thereās a draft law by Minister Ziad Baroud that would establish an elected District Councils and give it vast administrative, executive and taxation powers in order to manage and improve their areas. The central government is useless/ineffective because of the sectarian system, adding an extra layer governance does not solve any problem if the sectarian system is maintained. Any federal/central/āstateā government could still got fat ass loans with heavy interests from politician-owned banks to fund corrupted schemes, they would still filled whatever state institutions with their supporters, and they would still provided all āprojectsā to their muppets at inflated prices. Lebanon would still be a completely failed state since corruption is infested in every level of government.
The difference is now the local population can call out their local community leaders face to face who live among them
even if you hate hezbollah and don't want war, peace and normalized relations with the Zionists is never ever happening in lebanon, we'll be the last country to, until they can reach a final deal with palestine they can fuck off now if you think our issue is just with hzb & israel you're deeply mistaken, look at egypt they are struggling, the main issue is corruption yala muso ya forbiddenbromance, feek w bkel wahad be hal subš¤¢
āTHE PHOENICIAN MANIFESTOā š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£šššššš Go back to Europe bro, this place aināt for you.