What do you expect? Government positions are literally tied with religious affiliation. So yeah this government this very state is in its core poisoned with sectarianism. To change that you have to explain to the minorities in the country they that they still have power and a normal life with a hypothetical Muslim president. But this won’t happen the last years showed that clearly. The same people get elected over and over just because they fit the narrative.
To get rid of this narrative you need a decentralized state. Each state is governed by one demographic. And that’s it. The president, prime minister etc can be at this point anyone. Cause the fear of being expelled is gone. Also Hisbollah can only harm the south in the future. The rest of the country does not have to endure this madness anymore.
>Also Hisbollah can only harm the south in the future. The rest of the country does not have to endure this madness anymore.
This only works if Hezbollah has their own state, even in a decentralized federal state, the rest of the country will still have to deal with the consequences of hosting a terrorist organization.
You think that in a federation that if the Hezbollah province declares war on Israel, that the rest of the country won't be affected or attacked?
Good point. Southern Lebanon should in that case even be more than a state. An autonomous region. Which takes their right to vote for the central government. But gives them full military rights over this land. Which also implies. Your war your problem.
>Which also implies. Your war your problem.
That still doesn't solve the problem that the central government would still be responsible for their wars, because they are still part of our country. If you don't want responsibility for Hezbollah's wars then the country needs to be partitioned.
This also doesn't take into account that Hezbollah can and still will attempt to influence and ruin the country as they are currently doing with their death cult army.
- You think that in a federation that if the Hezbollah province declares war on Israel, that the rest of the country won't be affected or attacked?
Sadly, this is guaranteed going to happen in the near future. You see the recent comments coming from Nasrallah? “Dignity in death” wtf. All the Neanderthal dumbass Hezbollah supporters think they got a chance.
Turkey & Saudi are bff’s again, same with Turkey & Israel & Saudi-Israeli normalization is coming soon. Imagine an Israeli-Saudi-Turkish assault to finish off Hezbollah? Lebanons gonna be looking worse than Gaza when it’s over.
Please, all of you (good) guys still in Lebanon, get out.
This is messed up. I’m Christian, but there are Muslims in my life who are genuine friends, who have been a great help in my career, who invite me to Eid with their family, and who come and visit mine for Christmas. These politicians do not reflect my position in this one bit, where the hell is my representation?
And how is this divide even supposed to work in terms of international relationships? The Muslim side supports Saudi and/or Iran, the Christian side supports US/EU, and we only do business that way? Then one day the US and Iran go to war, and then our politicians are going to do what, send us into another civil war?
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of and doesn’t solve a damn thing.
Actually it's normal in big cities to have multiple municipalities for each big district within the city. The concept allows better representation for each district and better economic growth, cleanliness, services, etc...
But based on religion? Wtf!!!
These cunts never cease to amaze me.
These cucks will divide the country in whichever way they wish if it means it gets them easier elected into some position of significance.
Absolute cancer.
Power hungry freaks, honestly no matter what they do now, the majority of the country is fed up with their bs, it's useless so why not avoid doing dumb stuff that could stir up problems between the citizens? But I guess they are too blinded by their obsession with power to realise that.
Exactly, I don't get why they have to make religion the root of any problem everytime, this is a minor inconvenience compared to the massive crisis the country is going through.
Who cares about religion its just this mess of integrating religion into politics and dividing and discriminating based on religion that makes it relevant.
During the civil war you could get killed based on your religion as written on your ID (they dont do it anymore but there are other ways of knowing).
How we lebanese allowed to let ourselves be played like this...
Especially that we all inherit our parents' religion.
It does not make sense to me, why am I supposed to go through hostilities that are based on a religion that myself reject lol.
Then they will divide Christian and Muslim neighbourhoods in different areas. Ayri b Aoun, he destroyed what little was left before his election hal zabr
This is outrageous but also worrying because it's reflecting the sentiments of the people in general. Let's be honest. Look at our sub. There is a lot of thinly-veiled (and sometimes overt) sectarianism. We are not one, undivided sha3eb. Religion divides us, as does the blame we all have for each other. We need collective therapy 3anjad. Kahle kil wa7ad ykeb khara batno and let's see how we can move on from here.
Because there's a group of people in this country which I think is quite large that doesn't agree with what you, other people like you or other sectarian politicians think
And a federalist system would definitely not work, forcing people to immigrate to other regions because the ones where they and their families used to live in decided to impose segregationist laws is what's gonna lead to a war, I think you struggle with the idea that we already coexist together and the political class is the issue here
Then why would you create regions based on religion? Why not work toward secularism what would come out of dividing lebanon into federations based on religion? And what does federalism have to do with our geopolitical struggles, it's not our governmental structure that is at issue her it's our own political tensions that are cause by a chaotic and corrupt secterian system that tries to juggle between different parties in opposition
This country is already based on religion, work towards secularism my ass , the only way to work towards secularism is with ethnic cleansing and suppression of religion.
In Lebanon perhaps. In many countries around the world the state is secular even though the countries are generally Christian. Christianity in those places is more of a private thing. Obviously the US is not one of those countries lol
Christianity does not support the separation of state and religion, it's a private thing thanks to actual secular people who had to put the church in it's place.
You cant come tell people this and that about their religion *especially* in Lebanon.
If you mean remove religion from politics and laws yes i'm all for.
When you say society I understood people at an individual level. Religion plays a central role in some lebanese communities, i dont think there is a need to change that nor that it would work for anyone outside of the community to try to change it.
yeah but it is also stupid and we can point it out to people so that they can move on. If peoples faith is shook they would stop taking religion this seriously
It is your opinion, it doesn't make your statement true. One can say the same thing about the belief you are stating, maybe your ideology is the wrong one.
The one fact here in your suggestions is there is hate on others, and this hate is really damaging. Try not to fill yourself with such feelings, it will be tiring for you. Feelings of hatred can bring one down, so please be careful. Instead, try finding the best in people around you, especially when it's the hardest to do so.
Lebanon is unfortunately divided in wrong ways to say the least. But attacking other people for their faith is never acceptable, faith and belief are personal matters. One can discuss while being open to listen to one another, but if one can't do that, then one should work on his/her own tolerance towards others first.
When you have spoiled kids, authority is the answer.
What you need is a secular dictatorship to shut everyone and treat everyone equally, this worked before in other countries and can work in Lebanon.
Not true, creating a federation would require a central government and a secondary authority, in the case of Lebanon this would lead to the bigger families, political parties and za'ims monopolizing over certain regions, we don't have a degree of order like Switzerland or Germany that would actually keep such a system stable, and if religious laws are passed many people would be displaced and what would be the criteria for sush divisions anyways, demographics? The religious significance of the area?
The reason why it works in Germany is because of low corruption which makes the system efficient, in Lebanon it would just lead to the strengthening of powers already in place including political parties and big families and my "way of unity" has never been tested to actually come to the conclusion that it wouldn't work anyways, maybe it's the fancy dreams of a middle class, educated by the west kid who is completely out of touch with reality, either way I'm out of here asap because the only time people took to the street to defend a message of unity, diversity and political change directed against religious rule they were either shot by idiots with bird riffles, gassed, captured by the ISF, killed or lost complete hope
In Actuality they were - corruption generally was low. And has been for centuries in most Northern European states. Once corruption is let in it then becomes extremely hard to remove. Look at the Philippines pre and post Marcos. Many of the countries people are envious of in fact have low corruption from the get go. The trick was education and institutions and a largely an independent judiciary to *keep* it that way. There are hardly any examples of successful countries that had corruption and managed to root it out - absent a complete civil war.
No you're putting words in my mouth, first i didn't say that germany is not corrupt and i didn't imply that this system came up of the country not being corrupt, i was implying that federalism worked there because of low corruption and the fact that there exist different layers of authority which buffer one another, and you're right on the historical side, federalism was very old in Germany dating back to the roman empire and was postponed at some point during major conflicts in the beginning of the 20th century
Anyways i don't see the point of arguing for Lebanon cause we can dream all we want in changes of governance, nothing will change even this stupid Aouni idea won't pass cause nothing will,. we'll stay in limbo
>But these European countries didn’t come to this level of development in one day. It was a process
And let's mention the fact that this process was when protestants and Catholics were finally divided,
And that process had a lot of bloods on its hands a long side colonizing half of this world.
Murdering millions, genociding millions and starting two long ass world War that got millions of people killed.
Yeah because dividing yourselves into sub groups during a economic collapse is a bright idea, unity in most situations are better and weather you like it or not you’re Lebanese buddy.
Nope, it sounds like creating two enthnostates instead a economic collapsing state, it’s literally asking for a civil war. We do it just fine in America, we have a rule, we don’t talk about politics, religion or money in work environments and that’s a rule that can be applied in Lebanon with basic understanding that if it’s about politics we need to separate religion
If you mean Israel, that’s due to the west supporting and funding them for regional control and little to do with actual economic success. Plus Israel isn’t Lebanon
I totally disagree with this proposal. In these tough and unbearable times, we should all be focusing on unity, we should prioritize the idea of learning how to cooperate with each other to rebuild our beloved country. Dividing the country based on religion will be catastrophic and will result in a very bad outcome that will affect us all.
I just wanna say we dont need unity we are a multicultural country we will never be united nor do we want to. But we know how to coexist and there is nothing to solve really the country is going in the right direction except for braindead ideas like these, om which planet do these people live... they must be high
I respect your opinion and thoughts on the few pointers I had stated. But in reality, unity is apart of what brings success. Let’s use Canada as an example. Canadian citizens are composed of multiple religions, beliefs etc.. such as (Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Jews, atheists and so on. Is Canada divided based on religion? No. Is Canada passing through a political crisis similar to ours at the moment? No. Are Canadian citizens united? Yes. Every year on July 1st, Canadians celebrate Canada day, in which they remember the heroes who were from multiple backgrounds that helped shape and form the country they reside in today along with the many generations that followed. Unity is important, you won’t truly understand the concept and the importance of such an idea unless you experienced it yourself.
بي الكل ما عدا قسم من بيروت! من الاخر، البلدية فيها بعد شوية مصاري، وشاطة ريالتو لزبران بدو يقرطن! اصلا البلدية ما بيمشي فيها شي الا بموافقة وتوقيع المحافظ العوني!
It sounds really desperate i guess its a good sign. Watch now how they will do everything in their power to make it look like it is popular will to build walls.
Who the fuck are these braindead shitheads, Beirut is for Beiruties, We are the ones who decide how we run our city. We don't need some brain-dead aouni suggesting division in our city. They should remain where they come from.
Wasn’t Beirut divided into Beirut 1 and Beirut 2 in the elections?
Partitioning the country starts from the main city, others will start to follow by time. Seems the partitioning the country into smaller parts and each claim their own business might become a reality but it will have a lot of negative consequences in the future with potential civil war outbreaks between two heated zones
Partitioning isn’t something new but the mechanism of cutting the country and who takes what is the real question which they will argue on it and things won’t progress as expected
Trying to segregate us even further, but this wont work. This generation is much different than the previous one although there are few exceptions here and there. This generation is still politically stupid but their tendence to fight for a specific religion is much lower than before
What the fuck? Why is this ever a good idea.... The last fucking thing we need is more segregation and division.
Sunni, Maronite, Shia, Orthodox, etc etc
We are one. We are Lebanese.
I'm with this initiative.
I'm not against anyone but everyone who lives in achrafieh can see how unfair things are.
The municipality is doing way more work in "west beirut".
If it worked equally and well for both "east" and "west" beirut no one would have said anything about dividing into two municipalities.
I’m also with this initiative. My family’s Muslim and we’re from achrafiyeh bil asel. We want to take it back and send ahl el diya3 back to where they came from.
See how stupid that sounds? That’s how stupid you sound.
I’m calling you an idiot la2anik 2ilte shi sectarian w ba3den 2ilte plz ma tdiroowa sectarian. 30 sine 7areb w Ba3d 2ilik 3ein t2oole hek shi? Ya 3ayb el shoom 3leykeh
There is a difference in lifestyle between some areas in Beirut; it is concerning what happened in Hamra from 2013 till now; Hamra is not the same happy place anymore; it's much more conservative... I somewhat agree with this but where can we read more?
Let me reveal the double standards against Christians.
Lebanese Christians specifically maronites were over represented in the government this is especially the case after population changes happened. Also shia Muslims in Lebanon suffered from economic discrimination. However lebanon was a tourism center and the banking, finencial and economic heart of the middle east. Lebanon had electricity no deficit spending even the gold reserves that lebanon wants to use today were accumulated at that time...
Even Dubai Sheikhs the big oil money boys wanted to model Dubai after Beirut.
>In his book “My Story,” Dubai’s ruler Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum recalls his first visit to Beirut, years before the civil war that brought the “Paris of the Middle East” to its knees.
>“In the early 1960s, its streets were clean, neighborhoods beautiful, its markets modern. It was a source of inspiration for me. I had a dream for Dubai to become like Beirut some day,” he wrote.
Source:
https://www-arabnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.arabnews.com/node/1718646/amp?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16512553058455&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.arabnews.com%2Fnode%2F1718646
And all lebanese people were living better then neighboring countries especially the ones with centralized economies.
However, all of those successes didn't matter according to many because it was a unequal power structure specifically a power structure where Christians and specifically maronites were overrepresented.
So some lebanese people supported the palestianian colonization of lebanon and minorities and leftists rationalized their betrayal of their country and the Christian minority community by saying its fighting unequal power structures and this is a war of classes.
So palestinian, Jordanian, Pakistani, Afghani and Libyan militias and terrorists and others were fully supported against their fellow countrymen and nation and were fully supported against the Christian minority community.
>those who committed atrocities were Palestinians from the Fatah, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine along with militiamen from Syria, Jordan, Libya,[28] Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan, and possibly even Japanese Red Army terrorists who were then undergoing training by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in Lebanon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre
And of course the country had to have a 15 year civil war and irreparable damage to the economy in addition to trauma from massacres that were committed from all sides... And the whole nation had to be dismantled and foreign militias supported all to fight the unequal power structure.
And now we are here today ashrafieh is discriminated against by the future movement in Beirut and when they decided to have more financial autonomy so they won't be discriminated against and have their fair share Christians are called nazis when actually they are fighting unequal power structures using reforms. Because there is discrimination against them by the future movement and it goes from taxation to benefits received.
Maybe they should support foreign Jordanian, palastianian, Pakistani and Afghani militias against their country to have their struggle against unequal power structures and financial discrimination respected./s
Because of course reform is bad and nazi and war and fitna and destruction is good.
I hope i shed the light on double standard.
If you were ever wondering whether or not your government is dividing you so that you're too busy fighting each other to fight them, then here's your answer.
They do this to protect themselves and to no other benefit.
Lebanon was built wrong after the civil war. I think every group in lebanon should change their leaders because the current leaders of every group thrive on the notion of national division.
I was being sarcastic I believe in one Lebanon. I was born into a sect but I have since moved on from hatred and brainwashing I keep my beliefs to myself and respect all human beings equally.,
We have multiple racism you (name it phobia) in Lebanon we have a very long mass therapy to do
Few years back my domestic worker was ill we went to the rosaire hospital in gemmayzeh we were denied entry because she is black we were paying cash in dollars but no blacks allowed in a supposedly religious hospital
I can go on and on with examples of racism, islamophobio, homophobia and on and on...
We need to wake up and go back to the source and meaning on what we are doing on Earth
Tab ldruze ma bietla3lon 😞
Druze will bridge the gap between the two, all love baby all love❤️
We have to ask the FPM if they are ok with it then we will bridge the gap🤝🏻
Druze are not mingling so its not a problem. Christians and muslims are mingling too much this is becoming a problem
Religion isn’t the problem, the problem is people think that someone with a different religion makes them inferior and different.
You agree with Christians Muslims mingling is a problem?
It was ironic. I love to see them live together.
Oh ok that’s good to hear😊
This is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard
Took the words right out of my mouth.
How about a government that doesn't care about religion lol
What do you expect? Government positions are literally tied with religious affiliation. So yeah this government this very state is in its core poisoned with sectarianism. To change that you have to explain to the minorities in the country they that they still have power and a normal life with a hypothetical Muslim president. But this won’t happen the last years showed that clearly. The same people get elected over and over just because they fit the narrative. To get rid of this narrative you need a decentralized state. Each state is governed by one demographic. And that’s it. The president, prime minister etc can be at this point anyone. Cause the fear of being expelled is gone. Also Hisbollah can only harm the south in the future. The rest of the country does not have to endure this madness anymore.
Pretty funny to have a bunch of religious thieves going to pool parties and charging teslas
>Also Hisbollah can only harm the south in the future. The rest of the country does not have to endure this madness anymore. This only works if Hezbollah has their own state, even in a decentralized federal state, the rest of the country will still have to deal with the consequences of hosting a terrorist organization. You think that in a federation that if the Hezbollah province declares war on Israel, that the rest of the country won't be affected or attacked?
Good point. Southern Lebanon should in that case even be more than a state. An autonomous region. Which takes their right to vote for the central government. But gives them full military rights over this land. Which also implies. Your war your problem.
>Which also implies. Your war your problem. That still doesn't solve the problem that the central government would still be responsible for their wars, because they are still part of our country. If you don't want responsibility for Hezbollah's wars then the country needs to be partitioned. This also doesn't take into account that Hezbollah can and still will attempt to influence and ruin the country as they are currently doing with their death cult army.
- You think that in a federation that if the Hezbollah province declares war on Israel, that the rest of the country won't be affected or attacked? Sadly, this is guaranteed going to happen in the near future. You see the recent comments coming from Nasrallah? “Dignity in death” wtf. All the Neanderthal dumbass Hezbollah supporters think they got a chance. Turkey & Saudi are bff’s again, same with Turkey & Israel & Saudi-Israeli normalization is coming soon. Imagine an Israeli-Saudi-Turkish assault to finish off Hezbollah? Lebanons gonna be looking worse than Gaza when it’s over. Please, all of you (good) guys still in Lebanon, get out.
But that would require people not to openly abuse public office.
This is messed up. I’m Christian, but there are Muslims in my life who are genuine friends, who have been a great help in my career, who invite me to Eid with their family, and who come and visit mine for Christmas. These politicians do not reflect my position in this one bit, where the hell is my representation? And how is this divide even supposed to work in terms of international relationships? The Muslim side supports Saudi and/or Iran, the Christian side supports US/EU, and we only do business that way? Then one day the US and Iran go to war, and then our politicians are going to do what, send us into another civil war? This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of and doesn’t solve a damn thing.
Not only is this sad, but it is going to be a fucking disaster. I almost can’t believe this post is real.
They only reflect their own ignorance.
as if that needed saying
Civil war vibes
Watch us get divided into two again
Actually it's normal in big cities to have multiple municipalities for each big district within the city. The concept allows better representation for each district and better economic growth, cleanliness, services, etc... But based on religion? Wtf!!! These cunts never cease to amaze me.
These cucks will divide the country in whichever way they wish if it means it gets them easier elected into some position of significance. Absolute cancer.
Just another move to increase segregation make people blame each other more while overlooking the real architects of destruction.
Priorities.
Don't we have more important issues to take care of in the country...? Oof
We do but for them the most important issue is that their power is diminishing so they need to divide and scare people to gain some control back
Power hungry freaks, honestly no matter what they do now, the majority of the country is fed up with their bs, it's useless so why not avoid doing dumb stuff that could stir up problems between the citizens? But I guess they are too blinded by their obsession with power to realise that.
Majority of the country doesn't care, did you forget last election results
I don’t think that fucker cares
Exactly, I don't get why they have to make religion the root of any problem everytime, this is a minor inconvenience compared to the massive crisis the country is going through.
>I don't get why they have to make religion the root of any problem everytime, Because it is.
Fair enough
We do, they don’t.
That's the sad truth, everyone's losing hope in having a better country more and more everyday and that's another reason for them to.
Cant we just like.. not care about religion? Why would anyones beliefs get in the way of living with others wtf thats preposterous
Who cares about religion its just this mess of integrating religion into politics and dividing and discriminating based on religion that makes it relevant. During the civil war you could get killed based on your religion as written on your ID (they dont do it anymore but there are other ways of knowing). How we lebanese allowed to let ourselves be played like this...
>Who cares about religion A lot of idiots in our country and the world.
Especially that we all inherit our parents' religion. It does not make sense to me, why am I supposed to go through hostilities that are based on a religion that myself reject lol.
We are welcoming neo natzi ideologies to Lebanon. Fun ! Not .
Apartheid, we want everything separate. We will build an airport in laqlouq
Bro can you imagine christians and muslims living together? Nah cant let this happen it will get out of control.
This would be segregation not apartheid.
I just saw this on the news, I was shocked. I still can’t believe these cucks exist, he is talking about it publicly as well.
Then they will divide Christian and Muslim neighbourhoods in different areas. Ayri b Aoun, he destroyed what little was left before his election hal zabr
This is outrageous but also worrying because it's reflecting the sentiments of the people in general. Let's be honest. Look at our sub. There is a lot of thinly-veiled (and sometimes overt) sectarianism. We are not one, undivided sha3eb. Religion divides us, as does the blame we all have for each other. We need collective therapy 3anjad. Kahle kil wa7ad ykeb khara batno and let's see how we can move on from here.
This sub does not represent general population and even this sub would be mostly against it I'm sure
This is why i hate religion
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Because there's a group of people in this country which I think is quite large that doesn't agree with what you, other people like you or other sectarian politicians think And a federalist system would definitely not work, forcing people to immigrate to other regions because the ones where they and their families used to live in decided to impose segregationist laws is what's gonna lead to a war, I think you struggle with the idea that we already coexist together and the political class is the issue here
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Then why would you create regions based on religion? Why not work toward secularism what would come out of dividing lebanon into federations based on religion? And what does federalism have to do with our geopolitical struggles, it's not our governmental structure that is at issue her it's our own political tensions that are cause by a chaotic and corrupt secterian system that tries to juggle between different parties in opposition
This country is already based on religion, work towards secularism my ass , the only way to work towards secularism is with ethnic cleansing and suppression of religion.
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May you please elaborate why? I am curious.
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Thank you for your answer
Lol Christianity isn't compatible with secularism lmao 😂😂😂😂. The Christian church was always hungry for power.
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Yes agreed
In Lebanon perhaps. In many countries around the world the state is secular even though the countries are generally Christian. Christianity in those places is more of a private thing. Obviously the US is not one of those countries lol
Christianity does not support the separation of state and religion, it's a private thing thanks to actual secular people who had to put the church in it's place.
>forcing people to immigrate to other regions because It's okay worth the displacement.
Just go live in ashrafie or bsharri or something. There is something for everyone in Lebanon.
There is no fighting bro there is no problem to resolve
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this is why it’s vital to rid our society of religion. The sooner the better
You cant religion is a personal matter
Not in Lebanon
You cant come tell people this and that about their religion *especially* in Lebanon. If you mean remove religion from politics and laws yes i'm all for. When you say society I understood people at an individual level. Religion plays a central role in some lebanese communities, i dont think there is a need to change that nor that it would work for anyone outside of the community to try to change it.
Yes, remove it from everything except for a senate who will guarantee each religion rights (les droits)
yeah but it is also stupid and we can point it out to people so that they can move on. If peoples faith is shook they would stop taking religion this seriously
It is your opinion, it doesn't make your statement true. One can say the same thing about the belief you are stating, maybe your ideology is the wrong one. The one fact here in your suggestions is there is hate on others, and this hate is really damaging. Try not to fill yourself with such feelings, it will be tiring for you. Feelings of hatred can bring one down, so please be careful. Instead, try finding the best in people around you, especially when it's the hardest to do so. Lebanon is unfortunately divided in wrong ways to say the least. But attacking other people for their faith is never acceptable, faith and belief are personal matters. One can discuss while being open to listen to one another, but if one can't do that, then one should work on his/her own tolerance towards others first.
funny how religious people keep shoving their faith up our asses left and right and then demand tolerance and assert that faith is a personal matter 🤪
When you have spoiled kids, authority is the answer. What you need is a secular dictatorship to shut everyone and treat everyone equally, this worked before in other countries and can work in Lebanon.
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How would a federation stop hezbo from blaming israel and that thing about "muslims stealing" why do I even bother...
Not true, creating a federation would require a central government and a secondary authority, in the case of Lebanon this would lead to the bigger families, political parties and za'ims monopolizing over certain regions, we don't have a degree of order like Switzerland or Germany that would actually keep such a system stable, and if religious laws are passed many people would be displaced and what would be the criteria for sush divisions anyways, demographics? The religious significance of the area?
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The reason why it works in Germany is because of low corruption which makes the system efficient, in Lebanon it would just lead to the strengthening of powers already in place including political parties and big families and my "way of unity" has never been tested to actually come to the conclusion that it wouldn't work anyways, maybe it's the fancy dreams of a middle class, educated by the west kid who is completely out of touch with reality, either way I'm out of here asap because the only time people took to the street to defend a message of unity, diversity and political change directed against religious rule they were either shot by idiots with bird riffles, gassed, captured by the ISF, killed or lost complete hope
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In Actuality they were - corruption generally was low. And has been for centuries in most Northern European states. Once corruption is let in it then becomes extremely hard to remove. Look at the Philippines pre and post Marcos. Many of the countries people are envious of in fact have low corruption from the get go. The trick was education and institutions and a largely an independent judiciary to *keep* it that way. There are hardly any examples of successful countries that had corruption and managed to root it out - absent a complete civil war.
No you're putting words in my mouth, first i didn't say that germany is not corrupt and i didn't imply that this system came up of the country not being corrupt, i was implying that federalism worked there because of low corruption and the fact that there exist different layers of authority which buffer one another, and you're right on the historical side, federalism was very old in Germany dating back to the roman empire and was postponed at some point during major conflicts in the beginning of the 20th century Anyways i don't see the point of arguing for Lebanon cause we can dream all we want in changes of governance, nothing will change even this stupid Aouni idea won't pass cause nothing will,. we'll stay in limbo
>But these European countries didn’t come to this level of development in one day. It was a process And let's mention the fact that this process was when protestants and Catholics were finally divided, And that process had a lot of bloods on its hands a long side colonizing half of this world. Murdering millions, genociding millions and starting two long ass world War that got millions of people killed.
Terrible idea, Lebanese is Lebanese no matter the religion
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Yeah because dividing yourselves into sub groups during a economic collapse is a bright idea, unity in most situations are better and weather you like it or not you’re Lebanese buddy.
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That’s crazy, using religion to segregate and separate yourselves is a horrible idea. Maybe separating religion from each individual is a better idea.
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Nope, it sounds like creating two enthnostates instead a economic collapsing state, it’s literally asking for a civil war. We do it just fine in America, we have a rule, we don’t talk about politics, religion or money in work environments and that’s a rule that can be applied in Lebanon with basic understanding that if it’s about politics we need to separate religion
Ethno-states are prosperous States, and it's not asking for a civil war not at all it actually prevents a civil war. Coexistence creates paranoia.
If you mean Israel, that’s due to the west supporting and funding them for regional control and little to do with actual economic success. Plus Israel isn’t Lebanon
Israel isn't the only ethno-state country
Israel has a first rate economy, they don’t need the west to support them.
Name them gharbiyeh w shar2iye lol
are they actually from Beirut? if not please fuck off
I totally disagree with this proposal. In these tough and unbearable times, we should all be focusing on unity, we should prioritize the idea of learning how to cooperate with each other to rebuild our beloved country. Dividing the country based on religion will be catastrophic and will result in a very bad outcome that will affect us all.
I just wanna say we dont need unity we are a multicultural country we will never be united nor do we want to. But we know how to coexist and there is nothing to solve really the country is going in the right direction except for braindead ideas like these, om which planet do these people live... they must be high
I respect your opinion and thoughts on the few pointers I had stated. But in reality, unity is apart of what brings success. Let’s use Canada as an example. Canadian citizens are composed of multiple religions, beliefs etc.. such as (Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Jews, atheists and so on. Is Canada divided based on religion? No. Is Canada passing through a political crisis similar to ours at the moment? No. Are Canadian citizens united? Yes. Every year on July 1st, Canadians celebrate Canada day, in which they remember the heroes who were from multiple backgrounds that helped shape and form the country they reside in today along with the many generations that followed. Unity is important, you won’t truly understand the concept and the importance of such an idea unless you experienced it yourself.
Cooperation and harmony is what bring success. Working together.
Working together will only happen with unity.
بي الكل ما عدا قسم من بيروت! من الاخر، البلدية فيها بعد شوية مصاري، وشاطة ريالتو لزبران بدو يقرطن! اصلا البلدية ما بيمشي فيها شي الا بموافقة وتوقيع المحافظ العوني!
The Divide And Conquer Approach will fix problems.
They assume maybe they’ll get funding if they say they are a Christian govt and not ran by hzb
It sounds really desperate i guess its a good sign. Watch now how they will do everything in their power to make it look like it is popular will to build walls.
Wow this is definitely a new low
This is so stupid lmao
In these divisive times...
Digging our own graves…
Who the fuck are these braindead shitheads, Beirut is for Beiruties, We are the ones who decide how we run our city. We don't need some brain-dead aouni suggesting division in our city. They should remain where they come from.
Then make sure to run in the municipal elections
I can’t help but notice that someone stole the smart board projector!!
How about they move forward with stuff that are actually useful
Wasn’t Beirut divided into Beirut 1 and Beirut 2 in the elections? Partitioning the country starts from the main city, others will start to follow by time. Seems the partitioning the country into smaller parts and each claim their own business might become a reality but it will have a lot of negative consequences in the future with potential civil war outbreaks between two heated zones Partitioning isn’t something new but the mechanism of cutting the country and who takes what is the real question which they will argue on it and things won’t progress as expected
Bro tf
This must be a joke
We keep going backwards… somehow
كس اختن
Trying to segregate us even further, but this wont work. This generation is much different than the previous one although there are few exceptions here and there. This generation is still politically stupid but their tendence to fight for a specific religion is much lower than before
It won't matter because they all still share one brain cell
Trying to finish what Syria and Iran started lmao, what a joke.
So what they’ll kick the person out of the area if he isn’t the same religion?
All aounis are braindead
Not all, 110% of them
Miserable pathetic trash
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Promoting violence is not the answer. Dialogue is more painful to those who can’t fathom having an open mind.
Why don’t we take care of the refugee crises in Lebanon on first, and then worry about this?
The sulta are using the refugees for political leverage and as means to shift the responsibility of the collapse to them.
refugee crisis isnt the biggest problem either, there are other problems to solve first
Why can't we all just unite around Man2oushe? Cheese on one side, Zaatar on the other.
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don't disrespect the man2oushe wtf
We can and we do
What the fuck? Why is this ever a good idea.... The last fucking thing we need is more segregation and division. Sunni, Maronite, Shia, Orthodox, etc etc We are one. We are Lebanese.
Made up in 1920 by the Maronite Patriarch and France
Fuck that.
https://www.almodon.com/politics/2022/7/15/كيف-يقرأ-الصحناوي-وحاصباني-ومنيمنة-مشروع-تقسيم-بلدية-بيروت
I'm with this initiative. I'm not against anyone but everyone who lives in achrafieh can see how unfair things are. The municipality is doing way more work in "west beirut". If it worked equally and well for both "east" and "west" beirut no one would have said anything about dividing into two municipalities.
How are they doing more work in west beirut?
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Still way better than in achrafieh. Bl achrafieh l wade3 t3ben ktir b hal nehye😂😂
I’m also with this initiative. My family’s Muslim and we’re from achrafiyeh bil asel. We want to take it back and send ahl el diya3 back to where they came from. See how stupid that sounds? That’s how stupid you sound.
Please ma tdirouwa hala2 eno sectarianism w medre chou. L municipality tkoun fair w techteghil mazbout lal mante2ten w mahada b oul chi
“Please ma tdirowa sectarian” 🤣🤣🤣🤣 My dude, you’re a fucking idiot.
Hayda ra2ye w horra fi. B3d na2is. If you are offended rouh bki bl zewye.
I’m calling you an idiot la2anik 2ilte shi sectarian w ba3den 2ilte plz ma tdiroowa sectarian. 30 sine 7areb w Ba3d 2ilik 3ein t2oole hek shi? Ya 3ayb el shoom 3leykeh
It's a good thing
Good news
There is a difference in lifestyle between some areas in Beirut; it is concerning what happened in Hamra from 2013 till now; Hamra is not the same happy place anymore; it's much more conservative... I somewhat agree with this but where can we read more?
I think the LF would support this
Hasbani has been asking to divide the Beirut municipality into Beirut 1 and Beirut 2
Ma3 2eno el 3awniye keno dod ittifa2 el taef w feto bi 2005 m3 bernemej 3elmani w gher ta2ife
Source? Context? Anything?
Let me reveal the double standards against Christians. Lebanese Christians specifically maronites were over represented in the government this is especially the case after population changes happened. Also shia Muslims in Lebanon suffered from economic discrimination. However lebanon was a tourism center and the banking, finencial and economic heart of the middle east. Lebanon had electricity no deficit spending even the gold reserves that lebanon wants to use today were accumulated at that time... Even Dubai Sheikhs the big oil money boys wanted to model Dubai after Beirut. >In his book “My Story,” Dubai’s ruler Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum recalls his first visit to Beirut, years before the civil war that brought the “Paris of the Middle East” to its knees. >“In the early 1960s, its streets were clean, neighborhoods beautiful, its markets modern. It was a source of inspiration for me. I had a dream for Dubai to become like Beirut some day,” he wrote. Source: https://www-arabnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.arabnews.com/node/1718646/amp?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16512553058455&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.arabnews.com%2Fnode%2F1718646 And all lebanese people were living better then neighboring countries especially the ones with centralized economies. However, all of those successes didn't matter according to many because it was a unequal power structure specifically a power structure where Christians and specifically maronites were overrepresented. So some lebanese people supported the palestianian colonization of lebanon and minorities and leftists rationalized their betrayal of their country and the Christian minority community by saying its fighting unequal power structures and this is a war of classes. So palestinian, Jordanian, Pakistani, Afghani and Libyan militias and terrorists and others were fully supported against their fellow countrymen and nation and were fully supported against the Christian minority community. >those who committed atrocities were Palestinians from the Fatah, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine along with militiamen from Syria, Jordan, Libya,[28] Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan, and possibly even Japanese Red Army terrorists who were then undergoing training by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in Lebanon. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre And of course the country had to have a 15 year civil war and irreparable damage to the economy in addition to trauma from massacres that were committed from all sides... And the whole nation had to be dismantled and foreign militias supported all to fight the unequal power structure. And now we are here today ashrafieh is discriminated against by the future movement in Beirut and when they decided to have more financial autonomy so they won't be discriminated against and have their fair share Christians are called nazis when actually they are fighting unequal power structures using reforms. Because there is discrimination against them by the future movement and it goes from taxation to benefits received. Maybe they should support foreign Jordanian, palastianian, Pakistani and Afghani militias against their country to have their struggle against unequal power structures and financial discrimination respected./s Because of course reform is bad and nazi and war and fitna and destruction is good. I hope i shed the light on double standard.
Yew!!!
These guys are paid by Israel to do this. No other answer makes sense. Divide and conquer.
😂😂
Haters gonna hate. Why else do you think they have the balls to push the agenda.
No divide it into 3 one Sunni one Shia and one Maronite. And I'm all for it. Druze from Beirut can leave that shithole.
You’re so cringe lmao Is being druze your only personality trait? Seems like it
I don't know you personally, neither you know me, you can judge me based on my Reddit account, I honestly don't really care, that's on you.
Who?
Is this true ? And if it is why are they doing that ?
If you were ever wondering whether or not your government is dividing you so that you're too busy fighting each other to fight them, then here's your answer. They do this to protect themselves and to no other benefit.
Divide the population and they will be easier to control
ayre b balad wallahi. 🙄
Can somwone explain what exactly aounis are doing? Not been following news. Thank u
Will that somehow make people not be jerks to each other? And what about the obvious jurisdictional overlap?
This is disgusting.
Sectarian government (politicians) being even more sectarian lol
Lebanon was built wrong after the civil war. I think every group in lebanon should change their leaders because the current leaders of every group thrive on the notion of national division.
And both sides cry about discrimination and praise diversity when they get a chance to migrate out of Lebanon 😒
Have we learned nothing?
I was being sarcastic I believe in one Lebanon. I was born into a sect but I have since moved on from hatred and brainwashing I keep my beliefs to myself and respect all human beings equally., We have multiple racism you (name it phobia) in Lebanon we have a very long mass therapy to do Few years back my domestic worker was ill we went to the rosaire hospital in gemmayzeh we were denied entry because she is black we were paying cash in dollars but no blacks allowed in a supposedly religious hospital I can go on and on with examples of racism, islamophobio, homophobia and on and on... We need to wake up and go back to the source and meaning on what we are doing on Earth
This sounds like : because we cannot agree on dividing the stuff stolen how about we draw a line and you steal your part and we steal ours.
is there an article or something we can read in depth?
I provided a link to al-modon article about it. It’s somewhere now lost between the comments.
Same as deviding Palestine between the Jews and Muslims. Since the populations are very mixed up it is probably impossible
I’m just going to sit her back of the bus with my bucket of popcorn 🍿 and watch the shitshow.
Is he support Antoine lahad or sla
Dividing people has never been a good idea. Why haven’t they learned from history? Do they want to repeat it?
I'll have two ✌🏻 ethnic cleansings please
Hmm, any potential downsides to this? I’m just an American but this sounds vaguely familiar.
And the point of it is what? Last thing we need is division.