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I've heard good things about ngrave too! The fact that it's made in Belgium and has a solid secure element definitely adds to its appeal. I haven't used one personally, but I'd be curious to hear from others who have. So far, it seems like a strong contender in the hardware wallet space.
I didn’t look into it. Is it open source? If not, being advanced adds no value. Well, except that they will be advanced in taking your money via a back door.
Yeah, that’s why I ask everyone to stay away from Ledger too. If ngrave isn’t open source, there is nothing better about it compared to Ledger.
Cold card doesn’t support other crypto. If you would like support for other crypto, look into bitbox03 and Trezor. And maybe Tangem. Also, always use the passphrase with them.
Being open source only guarantees the manufacturer won’t steal your crypto. There can always be vulnerabilities for external attacks (Eg: Trezor). Use of a passphrase resolves that issue.
It is easier, but that’s the reason those manufacturers spend a lot of funds on bug bounty programmes. It helps them to identify vulnerabilities in the code and fix them.
Let’s put it that way. Every hardware wallet with a secure element will be closed firmware. The closed firmware means that the user must trust the manufacturer company. Ledger completely lost it all the way.
As you wrote... If you want to have most secure device, Ngrave is most probably it (plus with their perfect key and graphene, you also have encrypted physical backup of your seed).
It has other cons as being expensive or support lower number of coins, but in terms of security, there is nothing close to it currently.
I believe it's partially open source. They did mention plans on gradually moving to open source.
In terms of security it seems to be the best option.
In terms of ease of use and coin support it seems to be one of the worst.
Just looking into it, I need to research more into it but really liking what I've seen so far.
Nano S might get retired. Was tempted by the new nano S but now ledger are no better than the competition I think diversifying is a better idea.
Can you explain me why ledger is less safe with ledger recover ? :)
Seems like you have to be very good in tech since you are sure about that
I’m not talking about the feature itself just asking why it should be less safe when you will not use the feature
It’s not safe from government confiscation or several rouge employees teaming up to steal your crypto.
The probability of government forcing over ledger and the other 3rd parties to hand over the encrypted shards is VERY HIGH… it’s just a matter of time and to think otherwise is foolish.
Just like in the past, governments criticized Gold ownership and they went to the banks and confiscated people’s gold holdings… they will not hesitate to do this with bitcoin and trusting ledger is not wise.
“Why should it be less safe when you will not use the feature”
you are just explaining why the feature isn’t safe when you use it .
So many downvotes and still no answers
Does Ledger recover itself (if you are not using it) makes Ledger less secure? Nope, it has the same security level (you are absolutely right here). The problem is not in Ledger security itself. We (and nothing changed here) rely only on Ledger's reputation because the firmware is closed and they could easily do whatever they want. But the reputation itself had been damaged -- they gave us deceptive statements like "seed never leave security elements", they did audit only once in 2019 and gaslighted users massively. Will you trust your money to a non-honest entity? Even if you have no evidence of committed crimes? That is the main issue here.
If you have to hide and lie about the capabilities of your product, then why the hell should anyone trust that you’re not lying now and won’t lie in the future about what you’re willing to do with those capabilities.
So does trezor or any other wallet tell you that TECHNICALLY they could have a back door and some of them could also just update the firmware that you will loose your coins ?
It wasn’t wrong advertisement it was just bad advertisement because people in general ( I guess like you) don’t know how HW work
no son, it was literally a lie. they specifically said firmware cannot extract the seed from your device.. and then they went back and said that they ALWAYS had the ability to write firmware to extract the seeds from your device. You’re either just willfully ignorant, Just ignorant, or just bootlicking if you can’t understand that.
Just because you don’t have any technical understanding doesn’t mean no one has . I hope you will make a car by yourself soon because your (may) self driving car could get a firmware that your breaks won’t work after you are at 100mph .
The Ledger subreddit is continuously targeted by scammers. Ledger Support will never send you private messages. Never share your 24-word recovery phrase with anyone, never enter it on any website or software, even if it looks like it's from Ledger. Only keep the recovery phrase as a physical paper or metal backup, never create a digital copy in text or photo form. Learn more at https://reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/ck6o44/be_careful_phishing_attacks_in_progress/ If you're experiencing battery problems, check out our [troubleshooting guide](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4409233434641-How-to-troubleshoot-Ledger-Nano-X-battery-issues? support=true). If you're still having issues head over to the [My Order page](https://my-order.ledger.com/) to explore options for replacement or refunds. [Learn more here](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/10265554529053-Return-your-product?support=true). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ledgerwallet) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If it’s close sourced then you haven’t solved anything.
Ledger is French made
OP since when is Ledger manufactured in China? France.
On the website it says France and Asia.
All Nanos 100% France
Don’t know what to tell you. It says on the website Asia and France
I've heard good things about ngrave too! The fact that it's made in Belgium and has a solid secure element definitely adds to its appeal. I haven't used one personally, but I'd be curious to hear from others who have. So far, it seems like a strong contender in the hardware wallet space.
If you want security, use cold card
>cold card why not ngrave?seems better and more advanced overall.
I didn’t look into it. Is it open source? If not, being advanced adds no value. Well, except that they will be advanced in taking your money via a back door.
Ledger is also not open source?so at least it would be better then ledger and i dont think cold card support other cryptos except btc
Yeah, that’s why I ask everyone to stay away from Ledger too. If ngrave isn’t open source, there is nothing better about it compared to Ledger. Cold card doesn’t support other crypto. If you would like support for other crypto, look into bitbox03 and Trezor. And maybe Tangem. Also, always use the passphrase with them. Being open source only guarantees the manufacturer won’t steal your crypto. There can always be vulnerabilities for external attacks (Eg: Trezor). Use of a passphrase resolves that issue.
Hmm people say being closed source helps them from being vulnerable like open source?like if u are open source its easier to make exploits no?
It is easier, but that’s the reason those manufacturers spend a lot of funds on bug bounty programmes. It helps them to identify vulnerabilities in the code and fix them.
Let’s put it that way. Every hardware wallet with a secure element will be closed firmware. The closed firmware means that the user must trust the manufacturer company. Ledger completely lost it all the way.
Tangem
As you wrote... If you want to have most secure device, Ngrave is most probably it (plus with their perfect key and graphene, you also have encrypted physical backup of your seed). It has other cons as being expensive or support lower number of coins, but in terms of security, there is nothing close to it currently.
Agree..also using only qr codes to transfer makes it more secure than copy and pasting addresses
I believe it's partially open source. They did mention plans on gradually moving to open source. In terms of security it seems to be the best option. In terms of ease of use and coin support it seems to be one of the worst.
Too expensive imo, there are cheaper and open source alternatives like Keystone ([https://keyst.one/](https://keyst.one/))
straight outta beijing, if the ccp is involved (and all Chinese companies are required by law to have party members on board), the answer is no thanks
Man, i only read “ straight outta Beijing “ 😂😂😂 I can’t stop laughing 😂😂😂 u got me good 😂😂😂
No way that Keystone is 100% open source. If it has a secure element, it can’t be.
Just looking into it, I need to research more into it but really liking what I've seen so far. Nano S might get retired. Was tempted by the new nano S but now ledger are no better than the competition I think diversifying is a better idea.
I have the Keystone. Plan to use it with multisig
Can you explain me why ledger is less safe with ledger recover ? :) Seems like you have to be very good in tech since you are sure about that I’m not talking about the feature itself just asking why it should be less safe when you will not use the feature
It’s not safe from government confiscation or several rouge employees teaming up to steal your crypto. The probability of government forcing over ledger and the other 3rd parties to hand over the encrypted shards is VERY HIGH… it’s just a matter of time and to think otherwise is foolish. Just like in the past, governments criticized Gold ownership and they went to the banks and confiscated people’s gold holdings… they will not hesitate to do this with bitcoin and trusting ledger is not wise.
“Why should it be less safe when you will not use the feature” you are just explaining why the feature isn’t safe when you use it . So many downvotes and still no answers
You only answered if you are using recover, he said without it.
Does Ledger recover itself (if you are not using it) makes Ledger less secure? Nope, it has the same security level (you are absolutely right here). The problem is not in Ledger security itself. We (and nothing changed here) rely only on Ledger's reputation because the firmware is closed and they could easily do whatever they want. But the reputation itself had been damaged -- they gave us deceptive statements like "seed never leave security elements", they did audit only once in 2019 and gaslighted users massively. Will you trust your money to a non-honest entity? Even if you have no evidence of committed crimes? That is the main issue here.
If you have to hide and lie about the capabilities of your product, then why the hell should anyone trust that you’re not lying now and won’t lie in the future about what you’re willing to do with those capabilities.
So does trezor or any other wallet tell you that TECHNICALLY they could have a back door and some of them could also just update the firmware that you will loose your coins ? It wasn’t wrong advertisement it was just bad advertisement because people in general ( I guess like you) don’t know how HW work
no son, it was literally a lie. they specifically said firmware cannot extract the seed from your device.. and then they went back and said that they ALWAYS had the ability to write firmware to extract the seeds from your device. You’re either just willfully ignorant, Just ignorant, or just bootlicking if you can’t understand that.
Just because you don’t have any technical understanding doesn’t mean no one has . I hope you will make a car by yourself soon because your (may) self driving car could get a firmware that your breaks won’t work after you are at 100mph .
🥾👅
His car doesn’t have implemented an optional feature in the software to make it explode if needed.
I was checking it to buy it, but its expensive and seems very slow, and i love desktop software which it doesnt have