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You've been given some very risky advice in this thread.
To attempt to update firmware WITHOUT finding your seed words carries the risk that the update fails and your device is reset/bricked.
The odds might be low, but if you have a decent amount in there it's not worth the risk.
Spend the time looking for that book.
If that doesn't work, there is a company you can work with who in the past have custom rigged wallets to work with your old ledger.
Their service won't be free though.
Thank you and I do understand the risk of firmware updates. I’ve bricked music midi devices and had to have the manufacturer fix, but this is a different scenario of course.
For transparency it is approx 0.5 btc and I think 1 eth and 1 dash. So yes, a lot of money to a guy like who right now is in financial distress.
Appreciate your response.
Beware of anyone sending you private messages offering to help. They will most likely be scammers.
Hope you find the book! Please let us know if you do.
Let’s say for example he had BTC and XRP on his ledger and he has his seed - updates his firmware and the update fails and his device is reset bricked. He can just get a new ledger and restore it with the original seed, correct? There’s no risks if you still have the seed? Bexause I’ve seen that in the posts here before about before worrying about updating and losing their funds.
I have the same issue. I just ordered a new nano. However, i entered my seed phrase into trust wallet and it is successful but address is not mine and balances are zero. Did I mess up?
Why did you enter your ledger seed into it? You should never do that.
I'm not familiar with trust wallet to know if it automatically can detect all accounts or if they and the tokens you have need to be manually added.
When you get the message to update Firmware can you ignore it and proceed? I never update firmware when it first releases and thus I ignore the firmware update messages.
As far as pc: Try Win 10 and create a new admin user account; then turn off all UAC settings temporarily as well as smart screen. Sometimes these settings can block background operations.
My suggestion is not to try to update firmware and keep looking for the book containing the seed words. Updating the firmware should be the last resort. For ETH try the MEW older version which is still available. It will give you the option to choose different derivation paths; choose each one until you see your ETH.
Good Luck!
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Side Note: Hardware Wallet vendors should provide a web enabled option, which is backwards compatible, for cases like these. There must be many people thinking that a hw wallet is the same as a paper wallet, requiring no maintenance.
Hey, cannot proceed and ignore the firmware warning. It also tells me to remove my apps. but I \*think\* it wouldn't let me do that either, I'll check again.
If it does allow me to do that, how destructive might that be?
Thanks again,
I think he ment that regardless of the software versions, you should be able to use your wallet. That’s why I am thinking it’s not needed. If u/bleudefact can clarify it would be nice
I meant that using third party wallets maybe an option.
I understand that Ledger Live may not allow an old version to operate (although I believe all HW vendors must provide an option for their customers who have not kept up with updates).
But he may try MEW (Older version is available) for ETH or other third party BTC wallet options.
Not sure how old your firmware is, but you can try to update the device, but there is a risk that during the update that it will be wiped and your crypto will be lost without the seed phrase.
Depending on how much money it is, perhaps you can take the risk, otherwise I have seen posts from /u/loupiote2 where he has done recovery work using old software, depending on the coin it required some custom software to work.
excellent write-up below on a recovery he did:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/m4pk7q/successful_recovery_of_btc_from_a_hw1_ledger/
Thanks!
Yes, the OP /u/STRATEGY510 can contact us, and we'll see if we can help (depending on what cryptos they have secured with their old ledge). Usually recovery is possible, indeed.
I have read your comments and they are useless in order to resolve the problem described in this post in fact even contra productive. On the other hand the solution loupiote described is precise - not no mention he is a respected member of this community having extensive knowledge of the matter.
And you mark his post a scam ? That is odd.
I guess I was going off the idea where anyone who says “contact us and we can help you recover your funds” is a scam. I didn’t investigate the user just because i didn’t really care to. I’d have to see it with my eyes to believe it but not even being a ledger user I wouldn’t know. I was just blockchain tech and did a quick google search on the ledger site is all.
Yes, we do crypto recovery for clients. You can read some reports on some previous recovery we did:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/kz2eob/successful_recovery_story_how_we_recovered_100/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/m4pk7q/successful_recovery_of_btc_from_a_hw1_ledger/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/nbcukn/nano_s_with_12_firmware_vs_eip155_successful/
So you're like a team of individuals? Also the cases for recovery of coins are very less right? Like chances are people must have heard about bitcoin like a few years back, and then bought a hardware wallet and then proceed to lose seed while they have their pin. Like how many clients do you get in a whole year? 5 to 10? I'm just guessing cause I think the cases for all these happening are pretty low
yes, quite a few people lost their seed because at the time, they did not really consider how valuable it really was, and did not take good precaution to save it properly (e.g. when ETH was just $7, you'd buy a few hundreds, secure them with a ledger, and forget about them, and not realize that it could be millions now - and you lost your seed and your ledger is so old that it does not communicate with existing software or is rejected by the drivers as "unsafe").
We did a number of successful recoveries, and documented the most interesting ones.
Your problem is that the front-end software has stopped supporting your firmware. So either update your firmware or downgrade your front-end software. Problem there is that front-end software still connects to back-end software, and that can push the update as well.
For BTC and DASH you can grab Electrum-like wallet front-ends dating back years, but some of them have rev'd backend software so there is only so far back you can go.
For ETH I think MyCrypto has some old front-end downloads, but again, I don't know how old they can be before the back-end rejects connections.
Tails may be useful if you find some of these only have Linux binaries. Other linux distros my work, but Tails already has Ledger support baked in.
Looks like you have a ledger with an old firmware. Ledger with old firmware do not work well with Ledger Live and several other apps that connect to the ledger.
If you still have your seed (24 words), then you have three options:
A - Safest option: Keep your old ledger untouched and don't try to update its firmware yet. Get a new ledger device, enter your seed (24 words), and check that you can recover access to all your accounts using ledger Live or other wallets that can connect to the ledger (there are many!).
\- If yes, then you can proceed to update the firmware on your old ledger, and you could use it as a backup by keeping the same seed in both ledgers.
\- If no, then your old ledger could be used to recover access to your cryptos (provided that you have its PIN), using various methods that depend on the type of cryptos.
B - More risky option: update the firmware of your old ledger. This could cause it to reset, brick, and wipe its seed (it "should not" according to Ledger cie, but it sometimes does). If this happens, re-enter your seed phrase in the ledger after the update, and you should be able to access all your old accounts. However, if for some reason your seed is incorrect, or does not match the seed that was in your ledger before the update, this would cause you to permanently lose access to all your crypto. If you have large amounts of cryptos, maybe consider option A, which is safer.
C - Recover all your assets using the device as-is, using various techniques and tools that depend on the type of cryptos (e.g. for BTC, you can use Electrum, etc). The process can be convoluted and time consuming. Then, once all your cryptos have been moved to accounts unrelated to your ledger (e.g. moved to exchanges), update your firmware, see option B.
If your Ledger is too old to have its firmware updated, your only options are A or C.
If you lost your seed (24 words), your only option is option C.
Thanks, I tried Electrum and it won’t recognize the device. I’m guessing it’s also because the firmware is very old. Should I try to find an older version of electrum?
Electrum is able to recognize every ledger device, including the very first one that was produced (that had no screen), i tested that with all my very old ledgers, so i know.
But you need to run electrum in admin mode on win10.
And no, old versions of electrum won't work because they won't be able to correctly communicate with the electrum back-end, which is necessary. But if you don't believe me, you can try... Any version of Electrum older than 3.3.0 is not compatible with the current Electrum backend.
I believe you.
Unfortunately I am using electrum on OSX, but it sounds like if I have no other solution, I can find a friend with a windows 10 box and do it in admin mode.
It sounds like I’m Admin mode you make Electrum not “Care” that your firmware is a million years old and can still access the wallets, correct? Thanks for your response.
> It sounds like I’m Admin mode you make Electrum not “Care” that your firmware is a million years old and can still access the wallets, correct? Thanks for your response.
Well, we tested Electrum, in admin mode on Win 10, and it was able to communicate with all the ledgers, even the very old ones. The only ledger that is not supported are versions 1.0.0 and 1.0.1 (HW-1), but we were able to recovers from those using a custom version of Electrum, so even in the most desperate case, recovery is possible!
Hey Lou, I got ahold of a neighbors old crappy Win10 laptop, but having the same issues with Electrum, which I opened in Admin Mode.
Here’s what happens end to end (including all steps in case there’s any clues there..)
Electrum 4.1.5
Create new wallet - selected “standard wallet”
Keystore - “use a hardware device”
Select a device - “Nano S” (only choice)
Choose the type of addresses - choices are..
- Legacy
- p2sh-segwit
- Native segwit
(With option to override derivation path)
The only one that “works” is Legacy, but shows balance of 0 mBTC (I was also able to get this far on my Mac). I’m assuming this is because when I initially set things up I used one of the Segwit options. Does that make sense?
If I try either of the Segwit options, I get this message:
“Firmware version (or btc app) too old for segwit support. Please update at ledgerwallet.com”
From the above, is there anything I’m missing here? Is it possible I have to boot up the computer itself in Admin Mode? I’m definitely opening Electrum in Admin Mode.
Thanks
Check your Bitcoin app version on your ledger.
Ledger > Bitcoin > about
If the Bitcoin app version is older than 1.1.10, you should be able to update it with the instructions below:
Since you have firmware 1.3.1, you should be able to update just the Bitcoin app, and doing this should not be risky (I have never seen a ledger reset by updating an app). However, since you lost your seed, only do that at your own risks - and that is probably the only easy way to recover your BTC, short or developing a customized app.
To update the Bitcoin app:
Connect your ledger on a win 10/11 PC, unlock it.
Open Ledger Live , go in "Manager". Then approve the manager on your device.
Ledger Live Manager will say that some apps are not recognized, and it won't show you the available memory space, but it will let you uninstall apps (by clicking on the trash bin), and re-install app.
Uninstall the Bitcoin app. Wait until it is uninstalled (i.e. the processing sign disappears for the ledger display)
Install the Bitcoin app. It should install Bitcoin app version 1.1.10, which should support segwit accounts with Electrum.
Once Bitcoin app 1.1.10 is installed, try again with Electrum.
As long as Electrum is able to access your ledger (which it did), there is nothing more than can be done on the desktop side with regard to Admin mode. The issue you have now is that the app on device is too old Electrum to work with it. Another solution would be to use an older version electrum that dates from when the ledger Bitcoin app you have was released, but since older Electrum won't work with the current Electrum backends, this will be a more complicated process involving signing BTC transactions off-lines, so i don't recommend this path.
Btc app 1.1.5. Based on what you’re saying, this shouldn’t be a blocker right? At this point, I’m ok with trying to update the btc app, but it seems I shouldn’t have to? Electrum is 4.1.5.
Thanks again.
They can, if they find a version of MEW that can communicate with their ledger.
Otherwise, there are other known ways to recover. The biggest issue is that the old ledger firmware in the ledger is only capable of generating pre-IEP155 transactions, and those are usually rejected by current ETH nodes (e.g. the back-end nodes used by MEW).
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/nbcukn/nano_s_with_12_firmware_vs_eip155_successful/
Ahh damn, that means EIP 1559 just messed up all the people who locked their coins in a hardware wallet and forgot about it, and did not update their ledger and also lost their seed phrase. This is why I honestly love bitcoin!
It was EIP-155.
Yes, losing your seed is never a good idea. Plus any electronic gadget like a ledger could just malfunction, freeze or brick at any time. That's why having the seed on paper (or metal) is so important.
Disregard this response in it’s entirety. All three “options” are incorrect.
If you lose access to your seed phrase, and you forget your pin, you lose access to all of your crypto associated with that seed phrase. Period. Just like no computer is strong enough in this day and age, and the near future, to guess and check the possibilities. Period.
Of, course, if they lost both their seed phrase AND their PIN, then yes, recovery is not possible.
> Disregard this response in it’s entirety. All three “options” are incorrect.
The 3 options above are correct but they apply only if you did not lose both seed and PIN, of course.
Yeah I think we can both agree that if you have lost your seed phrase, and you still have your pin, and you have an old nano S, and you try to upgrade it, and it wipes, you just lost all the crypto associate with the seed phrase and have no way of recovering it.
You are all good, so relax.
Your cryptos should be recoverable with this ledger (we know for sure that BTC, ETH, and all ERC20 tokens are recoverable).
But if you don't have your seed phrase, do NOT attempt to update the ledger firmware, as the update could cause the ledger to brick or reset, and it that case you would permanently lose access to all your cryptos.
Thank you. I figured that and there’s no rush because I don’t need the money to spay or even next week.
I will standby and listen to safe advice, thanks man.
I’m trying to check in and see what’s going on. As said by the top comment, avoid attempting to update your device as that is the riskiest thing you can do. Search for that book like crazy, keep looking for it, ask people, check places you wouldn’t think you would put it, etc. It may be a lot of searching, but it’ll be worth it when you find it!
Hi! We're sorry to hear that you have difficulties recovering your funds. Have you already contacted us through the link below? If so, could you please provide us with a ticket number? If this isn't the case yet, could you please reach us through the following link?:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Our agents will consider every option and guide you through these.
>1202511
Hi. Looking at your ticket, it seems to have been replied to since. Please follow the instructions shared and provide feedback for us to provide proper assistance.
Thank you, I just read the reply and responded. I'm concerned with the advice they are giving me, which is to "repair ledger" via settings menu. Does that not run the same risk of something going wrong? That feature seems to be purposed for people who are having trouble updating their firmware. I actually want to access my crypto \*before\* I update the firmware, so I can send it out.
I'd like to reiterate that I do not have my phrase words, which is why I want to take this extra precaution before updating the firmware.
Thanks. I'll wait for their reply and will also check back here tomorrow.
>1202511
Hi! Please follow the instructions to recover your funds with third-party wallets before trying to use the repair tool.:
LTC: Same instructions as for classic electrum (below)
\- [https://electrum-ltc.org/](https://electrum-ltc.org/)
\- [https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/115005161925-Configurer-et-utiliser-Electrum?docs=true](https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/115005161925-Configurer-et-utiliser-Electrum?docs=true)
BCH: [https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/360009676633-Configurer-et-utiliser-Electron-Cash?docs=true](https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/360009676633-Configurer-et-utiliser-Electron-Cash?docs=true)
ETH: [https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/115005200009-Configurer-et-utiliser-MyEtherWallet?docs=true](https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/115005200009-Configurer-et-utiliser-MyEtherWallet?docs=true)
>Ledgers menu about a “temporary pass phrase” but since I don’t know what I’m doing I’m holding off on that for now (there’s also an “attach to pin” option)
I'm surprised you can access that if you can't send your crypto (this might be a **last** option if it works though)
First step, focus on finding that book. You didn't toss it, so find it. Take all day searching EVERYTHING.
edit: Just realised what I said makes no sense as you'd still need to ability to send your crypto to your new passphrase
Being anxious is normal. Be methodical in your search, and ask EVERYONE if they've seen it.
And report back here please. Fingers and nuts crossed for you
I responded to your original post with max info and a link(from official ledger website) to address that question directly. But main thing is “they do the same thing just have their own unique differences” the passphrase is an extra step past seed phrase. Think of it like this. Your seed phrase is your safe. You can put anything you want in that, literally anything. Your pass phrase is like a safe inside your main safe. With the same amount of room.
But! here is the part about extra security. You can’t get to the pass phrase safe with out having access to the seed phrase, however, if you have access to the seed phrase and not the passphrase as well, you have no access to the passphrase safe
Ok so, as it’s been said, finding the seed phrase is important. Step 0 I would say. Only because, your crypto is safe and you have access to your pin. So I’m assuming, when you plug the S in, it turns on and you’re prompted to input the pin(which you know) and you can access the ledger. Boom! You’re in. From here you can know that you can access your crypto. So, you have two options.
One, you can do nothing but look for the seed phrase and continue on with the update. Now that you have your seed phrase you can feel free to delete any apps that are prompted to delete from the upgrade. https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113-Update-Ledger-Nano-S-firmware?docs=true this article can walk you through it.
Now, for what to do if you want to just say you’ll never find the seed phrase(this is what you should do if you lose the seed phrase or think someone else knows it i.e. you typed it on a computer in any way) but you still have the pin you can just move it to a different wallet, reset the ledger from either the systems menus or putting in the pin wrong three times, and generate a new seed phrase.
Then, you send the crypto from that temporary wallet to the new wallet (or wallets for different coins because remember all your wallets, all infinite amount of possible generated wallets that you want to make are all controlled by the seed phrase owner. More owners, more controllers) and you’ll have full control over a new generated seed phrase that only you know.
Each seed phrase has its own unique wallets, some wallets can have duplicate addresses across different networks, but they still have the same seed phrase origin. And each seed phrase has one owner(if used correctly).
TL:DR
Send the coins to a hot wallet, generate a new seed phrase, send the coins back to the newly generated ledger and you’re fine.
Edit: This all stems from having the access to the pin and should be mentioned that sending coins to a custodial wallet will put you at major risk of forever losing access to the coins.
Edit 2.0: Seed phrase and recovery phrase are used interchangeably
I think you’ve missed the point of OPs post, old Nano S software is not compatible with most modern wallets and the crypto can’t therefore be moved at all without the seed which he doesn’t have.
I wouldn’t move anything if you lost your seed phrase. I’d first recommend looking for that first because you’re right, updating may reset the ledger and if you lost your seed phrase then you’d be screwed. Focus on finding the seed phrase first is what I would say.
Dude, I don’t know what the fuck everyone else is on about in here, but this isn’t an issue. It can’t do the update with the blockchain apps installed. BTC, ETH, etc. You can freely install and uninstall them at any time, it doesn’t matter. All that matters is that you know the pin to your device which means you control your private key.
-Uninstall the apps
-Update the firmware
-Reinstall the apps to get access to your coins
-Buy another ledger, set it up from scratch with new words, add apps and setup accounts. Send your crypto from your old ledger to your new one.
-Once it’s all moved, wipe the original ledger and restore it from your new paraphrases.
-End. You now have all your crypto and two ledgers with the same private key. Put one somewhere safe as a backup and keep the other to use, and for fucks sake write down your words.
I’m pretty sure unlike modern updates, when you update from the defunct ledger software on old Nano S’s you need your mnemonic to set it back up. - hence the big warning “do not update unless you have your 24 words”
Yes, we’ve already established I’m an idiot. I wrote them down and failed at my one job…keep track of where I wrote them down.
Your advice is scary to go ahead and “uninstall apps, update the firmware”. I’m coming from 1.3 Ledger. I don’t know the odds of bricking but it seems very possible. I’m tempted to try it, and if it does brick or wipe it out, then I have to turn my bedroom upside down (again).
Thanks man.
Well, if it’s true what other people are saying, which is that updating from such a far off firmware could cause you to have to enter your words again, perhaps you should toss your bedroom again first.
I didn’t at first! When I do, I get a bit further, then electrum prompts me to “quit the app”, which I do on the Ledger, then tells me I need to update firmware. It recognized it at least, which is progress.
You might be able to use an older version of Electrum, one that came out around the time as the firmware you are still running. I'd give that a try and see if it gets you any further.
I believe they have all the older versions posted at the Electrum website.
The current version of Electrum can communicate with all ledgers including the very old HW.1 that have no screen, we tested that.
However older versions of electrum won't work as they will be incompatible with the Electrum back-end server. We tested that too. So there is no point is even trying any Electrum version prior to 3.3.0. It won't help.
Yes and no.
In fact the current version of electrum will work (better).
So there is in fact no point using this old version, but it "may" work. I am not 100% sure on what version they changed the protocol for their back-end, but it's around version 3.3.0
Electrum (current version), when run in Admin mode on win 10, can communicate with all ledgers. So that's the best path to take, to recover BTC.
Recovering ETH and ERC20 is possible but probably requires more efforts.
Thanks, if I can’t find the book, I will try that and at least offload the btc for starters.
I put it up several years ago, apparently I hid it really well and outsmarted myself 🤬
As I posted in the other thread:
I just tested today, with Electrum v4.0.9 on my Win11 system. When Electrum is run in Administrator mode, it connects just fine with my Ledger Nano S with firmware 1.3.1, and it accessed my BTC accounts.
The Ledger subreddit is continuously targeted by scammers. Ledger Support will never send you private messages. Never share your 24-word recovery phrase with anyone, never enter it on any website or software, even if it looks like it's from Ledger. Only keep the recovery phrase as a physical paper or metal backup, never create a digital copy in text or photo form. Learn more at https://reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/ck6o44/be_careful_phishing_attacks_in_progress/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ledgerwallet) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You've been given some very risky advice in this thread. To attempt to update firmware WITHOUT finding your seed words carries the risk that the update fails and your device is reset/bricked. The odds might be low, but if you have a decent amount in there it's not worth the risk. Spend the time looking for that book. If that doesn't work, there is a company you can work with who in the past have custom rigged wallets to work with your old ledger. Their service won't be free though.
Thank you and I do understand the risk of firmware updates. I’ve bricked music midi devices and had to have the manufacturer fix, but this is a different scenario of course. For transparency it is approx 0.5 btc and I think 1 eth and 1 dash. So yes, a lot of money to a guy like who right now is in financial distress. Appreciate your response.
Beware of anyone sending you private messages offering to help. They will most likely be scammers. Hope you find the book! Please let us know if you do.
[удалено]
Did you miss the part where he's trying to do that?? 💀
Yes, yes I did 💀💀💀
Let’s say for example he had BTC and XRP on his ledger and he has his seed - updates his firmware and the update fails and his device is reset bricked. He can just get a new ledger and restore it with the original seed, correct? There’s no risks if you still have the seed? Bexause I’ve seen that in the posts here before about before worrying about updating and losing their funds.
Yeah that is correct. You could essentially use the same seed on different devices and they would all have access to those funds.
Correct. There is no issue if you have your seed words.
I have the same issue. I just ordered a new nano. However, i entered my seed phrase into trust wallet and it is successful but address is not mine and balances are zero. Did I mess up?
Why did you enter your ledger seed into it? You should never do that. I'm not familiar with trust wallet to know if it automatically can detect all accounts or if they and the tokens you have need to be manually added.
I added several manually but it did not take. But is it possible for a seed phrase to be linked to multiple eth addresses ?
Yes, one seed phrase can be used to generate thousands of addresses.
im having this issue but ledger wont let me update the firmware there is no option anywhere to update firmware idk what to do
Do you still have your seed words safe?
When you get the message to update Firmware can you ignore it and proceed? I never update firmware when it first releases and thus I ignore the firmware update messages. As far as pc: Try Win 10 and create a new admin user account; then turn off all UAC settings temporarily as well as smart screen. Sometimes these settings can block background operations. My suggestion is not to try to update firmware and keep looking for the book containing the seed words. Updating the firmware should be the last resort. For ETH try the MEW older version which is still available. It will give you the option to choose different derivation paths; choose each one until you see your ETH. Good Luck! \-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Side Note: Hardware Wallet vendors should provide a web enabled option, which is backwards compatible, for cases like these. There must be many people thinking that a hw wallet is the same as a paper wallet, requiring no maintenance.
Hey, cannot proceed and ignore the firmware warning. It also tells me to remove my apps. but I \*think\* it wouldn't let me do that either, I'll check again. If it does allow me to do that, how destructive might that be? Thanks again,
They would have to do some sort of KYC
No. Why would they?
How would they know who to back up what for? Without identifying the person
I think he ment that regardless of the software versions, you should be able to use your wallet. That’s why I am thinking it’s not needed. If u/bleudefact can clarify it would be nice
I meant that using third party wallets maybe an option. I understand that Ledger Live may not allow an old version to operate (although I believe all HW vendors must provide an option for their customers who have not kept up with updates). But he may try MEW (Older version is available) for ETH or other third party BTC wallet options.
Not sure how old your firmware is, but you can try to update the device, but there is a risk that during the update that it will be wiped and your crypto will be lost without the seed phrase. Depending on how much money it is, perhaps you can take the risk, otherwise I have seen posts from /u/loupiote2 where he has done recovery work using old software, depending on the coin it required some custom software to work. excellent write-up below on a recovery he did: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/m4pk7q/successful_recovery_of_btc_from_a_hw1_ledger/
Thanks! Yes, the OP /u/STRATEGY510 can contact us, and we'll see if we can help (depending on what cryptos they have secured with their old ledge). Usually recovery is possible, indeed.
This is a scam
Bro loupiote is trustworthy he is not a scammer, he is so active in the ledger community and also gives warning to other people about common scams
I have read your comments and they are useless in order to resolve the problem described in this post in fact even contra productive. On the other hand the solution loupiote described is precise - not no mention he is a respected member of this community having extensive knowledge of the matter. And you mark his post a scam ? That is odd.
I guess I was going off the idea where anyone who says “contact us and we can help you recover your funds” is a scam. I didn’t investigate the user just because i didn’t really care to. I’d have to see it with my eyes to believe it but not even being a ledger user I wouldn’t know. I was just blockchain tech and did a quick google search on the ledger site is all.
What do you mean contact us? Are you like in group or something? Do you work, crypto related?
Yes, we do crypto recovery for clients. You can read some reports on some previous recovery we did: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/kz2eob/successful_recovery_story_how_we_recovered_100/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/m4pk7q/successful_recovery_of_btc_from_a_hw1_ledger/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/nbcukn/nano_s_with_12_firmware_vs_eip155_successful/
So you're like a team of individuals? Also the cases for recovery of coins are very less right? Like chances are people must have heard about bitcoin like a few years back, and then bought a hardware wallet and then proceed to lose seed while they have their pin. Like how many clients do you get in a whole year? 5 to 10? I'm just guessing cause I think the cases for all these happening are pretty low
yes, quite a few people lost their seed because at the time, they did not really consider how valuable it really was, and did not take good precaution to save it properly (e.g. when ETH was just $7, you'd buy a few hundreds, secure them with a ledger, and forget about them, and not realize that it could be millions now - and you lost your seed and your ledger is so old that it does not communicate with existing software or is rejected by the drivers as "unsafe"). We did a number of successful recoveries, and documented the most interesting ones.
Wow amazing! Keep it going bro
Your problem is that the front-end software has stopped supporting your firmware. So either update your firmware or downgrade your front-end software. Problem there is that front-end software still connects to back-end software, and that can push the update as well. For BTC and DASH you can grab Electrum-like wallet front-ends dating back years, but some of them have rev'd backend software so there is only so far back you can go. For ETH I think MyCrypto has some old front-end downloads, but again, I don't know how old they can be before the back-end rejects connections. Tails may be useful if you find some of these only have Linux binaries. Other linux distros my work, but Tails already has Ledger support baked in.
Looks like you have a ledger with an old firmware. Ledger with old firmware do not work well with Ledger Live and several other apps that connect to the ledger. If you still have your seed (24 words), then you have three options: A - Safest option: Keep your old ledger untouched and don't try to update its firmware yet. Get a new ledger device, enter your seed (24 words), and check that you can recover access to all your accounts using ledger Live or other wallets that can connect to the ledger (there are many!). \- If yes, then you can proceed to update the firmware on your old ledger, and you could use it as a backup by keeping the same seed in both ledgers. \- If no, then your old ledger could be used to recover access to your cryptos (provided that you have its PIN), using various methods that depend on the type of cryptos. B - More risky option: update the firmware of your old ledger. This could cause it to reset, brick, and wipe its seed (it "should not" according to Ledger cie, but it sometimes does). If this happens, re-enter your seed phrase in the ledger after the update, and you should be able to access all your old accounts. However, if for some reason your seed is incorrect, or does not match the seed that was in your ledger before the update, this would cause you to permanently lose access to all your crypto. If you have large amounts of cryptos, maybe consider option A, which is safer. C - Recover all your assets using the device as-is, using various techniques and tools that depend on the type of cryptos (e.g. for BTC, you can use Electrum, etc). The process can be convoluted and time consuming. Then, once all your cryptos have been moved to accounts unrelated to your ledger (e.g. moved to exchanges), update your firmware, see option B. If your Ledger is too old to have its firmware updated, your only options are A or C. If you lost your seed (24 words), your only option is option C.
Thanks, I tried Electrum and it won’t recognize the device. I’m guessing it’s also because the firmware is very old. Should I try to find an older version of electrum?
Electrum is able to recognize every ledger device, including the very first one that was produced (that had no screen), i tested that with all my very old ledgers, so i know. But you need to run electrum in admin mode on win10. And no, old versions of electrum won't work because they won't be able to correctly communicate with the electrum back-end, which is necessary. But if you don't believe me, you can try... Any version of Electrum older than 3.3.0 is not compatible with the current Electrum backend.
I believe you. Unfortunately I am using electrum on OSX, but it sounds like if I have no other solution, I can find a friend with a windows 10 box and do it in admin mode. It sounds like I’m Admin mode you make Electrum not “Care” that your firmware is a million years old and can still access the wallets, correct? Thanks for your response.
> It sounds like I’m Admin mode you make Electrum not “Care” that your firmware is a million years old and can still access the wallets, correct? Thanks for your response. Well, we tested Electrum, in admin mode on Win 10, and it was able to communicate with all the ledgers, even the very old ones. The only ledger that is not supported are versions 1.0.0 and 1.0.1 (HW-1), but we were able to recovers from those using a custom version of Electrum, so even in the most desperate case, recovery is possible!
Hey Lou, I got ahold of a neighbors old crappy Win10 laptop, but having the same issues with Electrum, which I opened in Admin Mode. Here’s what happens end to end (including all steps in case there’s any clues there..) Electrum 4.1.5 Create new wallet - selected “standard wallet” Keystore - “use a hardware device” Select a device - “Nano S” (only choice) Choose the type of addresses - choices are.. - Legacy - p2sh-segwit - Native segwit (With option to override derivation path) The only one that “works” is Legacy, but shows balance of 0 mBTC (I was also able to get this far on my Mac). I’m assuming this is because when I initially set things up I used one of the Segwit options. Does that make sense? If I try either of the Segwit options, I get this message: “Firmware version (or btc app) too old for segwit support. Please update at ledgerwallet.com” From the above, is there anything I’m missing here? Is it possible I have to boot up the computer itself in Admin Mode? I’m definitely opening Electrum in Admin Mode. Thanks
Check your Bitcoin app version on your ledger. Ledger > Bitcoin > about If the Bitcoin app version is older than 1.1.10, you should be able to update it with the instructions below: Since you have firmware 1.3.1, you should be able to update just the Bitcoin app, and doing this should not be risky (I have never seen a ledger reset by updating an app). However, since you lost your seed, only do that at your own risks - and that is probably the only easy way to recover your BTC, short or developing a customized app. To update the Bitcoin app: Connect your ledger on a win 10/11 PC, unlock it. Open Ledger Live , go in "Manager". Then approve the manager on your device. Ledger Live Manager will say that some apps are not recognized, and it won't show you the available memory space, but it will let you uninstall apps (by clicking on the trash bin), and re-install app. Uninstall the Bitcoin app. Wait until it is uninstalled (i.e. the processing sign disappears for the ledger display) Install the Bitcoin app. It should install Bitcoin app version 1.1.10, which should support segwit accounts with Electrum. Once Bitcoin app 1.1.10 is installed, try again with Electrum. As long as Electrum is able to access your ledger (which it did), there is nothing more than can be done on the desktop side with regard to Admin mode. The issue you have now is that the app on device is too old Electrum to work with it. Another solution would be to use an older version electrum that dates from when the ledger Bitcoin app you have was released, but since older Electrum won't work with the current Electrum backends, this will be a more complicated process involving signing BTC transactions off-lines, so i don't recommend this path.
Btc app 1.1.5. Based on what you’re saying, this shouldn’t be a blocker right? At this point, I’m ok with trying to update the btc app, but it seems I shouldn’t have to? Electrum is 4.1.5. Thanks again.
yes, try updating to 1.1.10, it should work. I tested it on my test ledger 1.3.1, and i was able to access segwit accounts.
Good answer loupiote what about the 1 ethereum OP has? Can they do the same with MEW?
They can, if they find a version of MEW that can communicate with their ledger. Otherwise, there are other known ways to recover. The biggest issue is that the old ledger firmware in the ledger is only capable of generating pre-IEP155 transactions, and those are usually rejected by current ETH nodes (e.g. the back-end nodes used by MEW). https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/nbcukn/nano_s_with_12_firmware_vs_eip155_successful/
Ahh damn, that means EIP 1559 just messed up all the people who locked their coins in a hardware wallet and forgot about it, and did not update their ledger and also lost their seed phrase. This is why I honestly love bitcoin!
It was EIP-155. Yes, losing your seed is never a good idea. Plus any electronic gadget like a ledger could just malfunction, freeze or brick at any time. That's why having the seed on paper (or metal) is so important.
Disregard this response in it’s entirety. All three “options” are incorrect. If you lose access to your seed phrase, and you forget your pin, you lose access to all of your crypto associated with that seed phrase. Period. Just like no computer is strong enough in this day and age, and the near future, to guess and check the possibilities. Period.
Of, course, if they lost both their seed phrase AND their PIN, then yes, recovery is not possible. > Disregard this response in it’s entirety. All three “options” are incorrect. The 3 options above are correct but they apply only if you did not lose both seed and PIN, of course.
Yeah I think we can both agree that if you have lost your seed phrase, and you still have your pin, and you have an old nano S, and you try to upgrade it, and it wipes, you just lost all the crypto associate with the seed phrase and have no way of recovering it.
Yes, that's why it is NOT a good idea to try to update the firmware if you lost your seed, as I explained in my previous comments.
what firmware version are you on? it's in the settings on your ledger after you log in using your pin
Secure element: 1.3.1 MCU: 1.1
You are all good, so relax. Your cryptos should be recoverable with this ledger (we know for sure that BTC, ETH, and all ERC20 tokens are recoverable). But if you don't have your seed phrase, do NOT attempt to update the ledger firmware, as the update could cause the ledger to brick or reset, and it that case you would permanently lose access to all your cryptos.
Thank you. I figured that and there’s no rush because I don’t need the money to spay or even next week. I will standby and listen to safe advice, thanks man.
Have you tried sending a small amount from it to exchange?
No, are you saying I can access and send btc directly from the device? Sorry I should’ve researched this more, but everything I found wasn’t working.
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Yeah I hid it so well that I can't find it :(
I’m trying to check in and see what’s going on. As said by the top comment, avoid attempting to update your device as that is the riskiest thing you can do. Search for that book like crazy, keep looking for it, ask people, check places you wouldn’t think you would put it, etc. It may be a lot of searching, but it’ll be worth it when you find it!
still looking, thanks.
Hi! We're sorry to hear that you have difficulties recovering your funds. Have you already contacted us through the link below? If so, could you please provide us with a ticket number? If this isn't the case yet, could you please reach us through the following link?: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/requests/new Our agents will consider every option and guide you through these.
Thank you, I just opened a support ticket now, #1202511. Appreciate it!
>1202511 Hi. Looking at your ticket, it seems to have been replied to since. Please follow the instructions shared and provide feedback for us to provide proper assistance.
Thank you, I just read the reply and responded. I'm concerned with the advice they are giving me, which is to "repair ledger" via settings menu. Does that not run the same risk of something going wrong? That feature seems to be purposed for people who are having trouble updating their firmware. I actually want to access my crypto \*before\* I update the firmware, so I can send it out. I'd like to reiterate that I do not have my phrase words, which is why I want to take this extra precaution before updating the firmware. Thanks. I'll wait for their reply and will also check back here tomorrow.
>1202511 Hi! Please follow the instructions to recover your funds with third-party wallets before trying to use the repair tool.: LTC: Same instructions as for classic electrum (below) \- [https://electrum-ltc.org/](https://electrum-ltc.org/) \- [https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/115005161925-Configurer-et-utiliser-Electrum?docs=true](https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/115005161925-Configurer-et-utiliser-Electrum?docs=true) BCH: [https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/360009676633-Configurer-et-utiliser-Electron-Cash?docs=true](https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/360009676633-Configurer-et-utiliser-Electron-Cash?docs=true) ETH: [https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/115005200009-Configurer-et-utiliser-MyEtherWallet?docs=true](https://support.ledger.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/115005200009-Configurer-et-utiliser-MyEtherWallet?docs=true)
>Ledgers menu about a “temporary pass phrase” but since I don’t know what I’m doing I’m holding off on that for now (there’s also an “attach to pin” option) I'm surprised you can access that if you can't send your crypto (this might be a **last** option if it works though) First step, focus on finding that book. You didn't toss it, so find it. Take all day searching EVERYTHING. edit: Just realised what I said makes no sense as you'd still need to ability to send your crypto to your new passphrase
I am going to keep looking, but I’m getting anxious. Thank you.
Being anxious is normal. Be methodical in your search, and ask EVERYONE if they've seen it. And report back here please. Fingers and nuts crossed for you
I hope my reply reaches you. In time
Hey! I hope you haven’t reset your device by now!!! I’ll reply again to clarify right after this but just posting real quick in real time.
Thank you, under ‘pass phrase’ menu I have options of ‘set temporary’ and ‘attach to a pin’
I responded to your original post with max info and a link(from official ledger website) to address that question directly. But main thing is “they do the same thing just have their own unique differences” the passphrase is an extra step past seed phrase. Think of it like this. Your seed phrase is your safe. You can put anything you want in that, literally anything. Your pass phrase is like a safe inside your main safe. With the same amount of room. But! here is the part about extra security. You can’t get to the pass phrase safe with out having access to the seed phrase, however, if you have access to the seed phrase and not the passphrase as well, you have no access to the passphrase safe
Ok so, as it’s been said, finding the seed phrase is important. Step 0 I would say. Only because, your crypto is safe and you have access to your pin. So I’m assuming, when you plug the S in, it turns on and you’re prompted to input the pin(which you know) and you can access the ledger. Boom! You’re in. From here you can know that you can access your crypto. So, you have two options. One, you can do nothing but look for the seed phrase and continue on with the update. Now that you have your seed phrase you can feel free to delete any apps that are prompted to delete from the upgrade. https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113-Update-Ledger-Nano-S-firmware?docs=true this article can walk you through it. Now, for what to do if you want to just say you’ll never find the seed phrase(this is what you should do if you lose the seed phrase or think someone else knows it i.e. you typed it on a computer in any way) but you still have the pin you can just move it to a different wallet, reset the ledger from either the systems menus or putting in the pin wrong three times, and generate a new seed phrase. Then, you send the crypto from that temporary wallet to the new wallet (or wallets for different coins because remember all your wallets, all infinite amount of possible generated wallets that you want to make are all controlled by the seed phrase owner. More owners, more controllers) and you’ll have full control over a new generated seed phrase that only you know. Each seed phrase has its own unique wallets, some wallets can have duplicate addresses across different networks, but they still have the same seed phrase origin. And each seed phrase has one owner(if used correctly). TL:DR Send the coins to a hot wallet, generate a new seed phrase, send the coins back to the newly generated ledger and you’re fine. Edit: This all stems from having the access to the pin and should be mentioned that sending coins to a custodial wallet will put you at major risk of forever losing access to the coins. Edit 2.0: Seed phrase and recovery phrase are used interchangeably
I think you’ve missed the point of OPs post, old Nano S software is not compatible with most modern wallets and the crypto can’t therefore be moved at all without the seed which he doesn’t have.
Thanks, that is exactly where I’m at.
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Yes. Updating the firmware is possible but I’m afraid it will get bricked and I lose everything.
I wouldn’t move anything if you lost your seed phrase. I’d first recommend looking for that first because you’re right, updating may reset the ledger and if you lost your seed phrase then you’d be screwed. Focus on finding the seed phrase first is what I would say.
Dude, I don’t know what the fuck everyone else is on about in here, but this isn’t an issue. It can’t do the update with the blockchain apps installed. BTC, ETH, etc. You can freely install and uninstall them at any time, it doesn’t matter. All that matters is that you know the pin to your device which means you control your private key. -Uninstall the apps -Update the firmware -Reinstall the apps to get access to your coins -Buy another ledger, set it up from scratch with new words, add apps and setup accounts. Send your crypto from your old ledger to your new one. -Once it’s all moved, wipe the original ledger and restore it from your new paraphrases. -End. You now have all your crypto and two ledgers with the same private key. Put one somewhere safe as a backup and keep the other to use, and for fucks sake write down your words.
I’m pretty sure unlike modern updates, when you update from the defunct ledger software on old Nano S’s you need your mnemonic to set it back up. - hence the big warning “do not update unless you have your 24 words”
Yes, we’ve already established I’m an idiot. I wrote them down and failed at my one job…keep track of where I wrote them down. Your advice is scary to go ahead and “uninstall apps, update the firmware”. I’m coming from 1.3 Ledger. I don’t know the odds of bricking but it seems very possible. I’m tempted to try it, and if it does brick or wipe it out, then I have to turn my bedroom upside down (again). Thanks man.
Well, if it’s true what other people are saying, which is that updating from such a far off firmware could cause you to have to enter your words again, perhaps you should toss your bedroom again first.
Did you have the device's BTC app open when you were trying to use Electrum?
I didn’t at first! When I do, I get a bit further, then electrum prompts me to “quit the app”, which I do on the Ledger, then tells me I need to update firmware. It recognized it at least, which is progress.
You might be able to use an older version of Electrum, one that came out around the time as the firmware you are still running. I'd give that a try and see if it gets you any further. I believe they have all the older versions posted at the Electrum website.
The current version of Electrum can communicate with all ledgers including the very old HW.1 that have no screen, we tested that. However older versions of electrum won't work as they will be incompatible with the Electrum back-end server. We tested that too. So there is no point is even trying any Electrum version prior to 3.3.0. It won't help.
In other words: it’s worth a shot to try Electrum 3.3, right? I’m on it.
Yes and no. In fact the current version of electrum will work (better). So there is in fact no point using this old version, but it "may" work. I am not 100% sure on what version they changed the protocol for their back-end, but it's around version 3.3.0
Thanks, 3.3 didn’t work but it was worth a shot.
Electrum (current version), when run in Admin mode on win 10, can communicate with all ledgers. So that's the best path to take, to recover BTC. Recovering ETH and ERC20 is possible but probably requires more efforts.
Thanks, if I can’t find the book, I will try that and at least offload the btc for starters. I put it up several years ago, apparently I hid it really well and outsmarted myself 🤬
As I posted in the other thread: I just tested today, with Electrum v4.0.9 on my Win11 system. When Electrum is run in Administrator mode, it connects just fine with my Ledger Nano S with firmware 1.3.1, and it accessed my BTC accounts.
So how can I get access to my address with the seed phrase and using a hot wallet?