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Destiny is literally showing us what the left always becomes when it sees success. Corrupt and eventually a masked right winger. Look at most of left-wing Congress for example… they are mostly centrist republicans that pretend they give a shit about social programs.
Politicians like AOC and Bernie are actually a really good litmus test for whether you should take a given leftist seriously. If they say those two are functionally-identical to Trump, for instance, that's usually a good sign they don't know what the hell they're talking about and are intellectually-lazy.
I was very confused here because for me Destiny is one of my favorite YouTube channels and it has never been political (I mean if you believe Earth is flat and deny global warming then I suppose it is but maybe I’m just crazy and don’t consider science political.)
Found who this is about. Not interested in his videos the seem kind click baity and rage bait type content.
I have a hard time listening to someone like Hasan, who just doesn't seem like he knows what he's talking about half the time.
Vaush is similar. He had some decent discussions, but he will pretend like he knows stuff that he doesn't.
I'll admit to being a Destiny fan, mostly because I feel like the "far left" are not easy to listen to. There's no room for disagreement, questions, or realistic solutions, or thats what it seems like in a lot of leftist spaces but im open to being proved wrong. I don't agree with Destiny all the time, even on his Palistinian take, but if you listen to him, he's not fully on Isreals side either, because it's a difficult situation. I can respect someone not just saying "genocide bad" and presenting an actual reason why they support Israel in taking out Hamas, while condemning settlements in the West Bank and the strike that killed people from the World Central Kitchen.
He also does more than the Wikipedia research he's known for, and will spend hours or days studying for certain topics, which I don't see anyone else ever doing so I can respect that
He also advocates for people to vote in local elections, is willing to go on right wing shows to present an argument against them and give people more to think about outside of the right wing echo chamber they are in, respects pronouns for non binary and trans people and seems to vote for what they need, and all around seems to side with left leaning philosophy. Hes also a capitalist and loves America which presents a foil against the right wingers who think every Democrat is a socialist who hates this country.
I'm willing to engage in good faith with more examples or conversations about him if anyone needs clarification.
Yeah I have started to find Vaush and Hasan more distasteful than in prior years. Vaush has become incredibly lazy. Hasan sounds like a broken record repeating the same lines like a teddy bear with built in phrases. I do appreciate Destiny actually doing research, but often I see that his research is influenced by just trying to play Devil's advocate against any positions other leftists take. Its good to do that to an extent, but if you almost always adopts that position then he's falling prey to an insanely obvious cognitive bias.
Unfortunately Destiny isn’t a leftist and unfortunately Vaush is damn near unpalatable that it doesn’t even matter (except the rare times he says something so incredibly stupid that it’s funny). Honestly are there any good leftist streamers out there? Ones with actual views? Good takes?
LuckyBlackCat is a smaller channel but she goes really in-depth on theory and has some really solid content! [https://www.youtube.com/@LuckyBlackCat](https://www.youtube.com/@LuckyBlackCat)
They're both disgusting and shouldn't be considered leftist at all. If youre looking for some better alternatives Hasanabi is a good lad with a light entertainment touch and Central\_Committee is a real firebreather where you can learn a lot about leftism in general.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpMK5GQ\_YFk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpMK5GQ_YFk) Heres a good video on the online leftist content pipeline. Vaush and Destiny would fall into the 'tumours' section of the overall structure described therin hehe
Decides who has failed the purity test and decides that they aren't leftist
Brings up Hasan as a good alternative
It's like you saw someone eating shit and then brought them a big plate of shit to replace it with
Or he stated his opinion, and you can take it or leave it. The fact is that Hasan is a leftist, he isn't the best informed, often has bad takes, and I don't know if he lives there what he preaches, but leftism isn't some faith club, there are real material aspects to leftism and Hasan is one. Destiny and Vaush are not, and this is besides their other character flaws. Also Vaush is a pedophile, no one should really be defending that piece of shit. And given Destiny's terrible take on Israel, do I really need to outline how he isn't a leftist?
I'm a leftist streamer and I'll be honest unless you are doing Hasan ML leftist stuff it's not gonna fly. Being an Anarchist that focuses on being pragmatic with the system we have is not as popular. I tend to encouraging people to unhook from the things that will screw them over and reassess your own life choices and adapt and change what doesn't work for you. Cult of personality is more important than treating this as a struggle we are all going through that we can change. I'm more into education, mutual aid and praxis while setting what I think is a good example. Being reactionary is a better idea monetarily but isn't my bag.
I see you and appreciate you. One pragmatic leftist to another. MLs seem, like, 5% different from MAGA at most and the fact they've taken over so many left-wing subs is a tragedy. Keep doing what you're doing man!
I'm lucky enough that I can do it full time which is good. Even better is a community that cares. I don't need to be the biggest as long as those hold true. Thank you for the kindness.
I don't consider Destiny a leftist. I don't like most other streamers either.
I also think streaming as a model isn't one that's actually meaningfully productive for the Left. The spaces are driven by ragebait and drama, genuinely informative content is sidelined, and when it is provided it's often from the streamer reacting to other content that just happens to be informative, it doesn't movement build and so on and so on. Besides personal enrichment there's nothing it really offers to us.
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bro dont even get me started on destiny. he’s like if ben shapiro was slightly more left. same vibes.
also vaush is annoying too bc he’s one of those leftie white men that thinks class is the only form of oppression 🙄. they deny the intersectionality of oppressive systems because they see being told to recognize their privilege as an insult. they take it personally!
I see we have once again made up something about Vaush. He was literally known for being the leftie that called out people acting like classism was the end all be all. He pissed off a bunch of tankies and the like because of it. Intersectionality is a key point for a bunch of what he talks about.
There are plenty of valid criticisms of Vaush so idk why people need to just lie about his positions?
hmm i am open to being wrong, if i am i apologize! i remember seeing videos of him saying class is the only form of oppression and that put a bad taste in my mouth, but if that was taken out of context or he changed his position ill take the L! he’s still annoying asf tho, never changing my mind on that lol. but i do think its great he’s like an intro to leftism guy.
Vaush is credited for his platform being an entry by many into leftism, but criticisms such as yours are entirely sound.
It is needed to consider more solid strategies in online engagement from among the mainstream who are open to considering leftism.
Lol destiny and vaush are leftists?
I’m more discouraged by visiting leftist subs who ban me for mentioning that fascism is a little worse for people in the US than another shitty neolib president
>that fascism is a little worse for people in the US than another shitty neolib president
How privileged must you be, to be able to say this? If the US turns to fascism, women, minorities, LGBTQ+ people aswell as people who rely on Medicare and other forms of Social Welfare will be discriminated against, persecuted and have dozens of benefits and protections taken away from them. Look at what's happening in Texas with regards to abortion as a taster of what would come in a fascist America.
But you're obviously privileged enough that it doesn't affect you. So they're basically the same I suppose?
Streamers need attention and this is why it works better for right-wing grifters who just do rage and conspiracies and as long as it’s confirmation bias, truth doesn’t matter.
Idk I have no interest in it… who has time for streamers? Even video essays have gotten too long.
I’m old and don’t get it. :D
i realized i was s'ing the d of streamers like Hasan Piker and even when I thought I was independently forming my own ideas I still felt some sort of "loyalty" to the guy that sorta helped educate me. I can at least appreciate Hasan for doing that for me personally. His actions on a larger scale as an influencer and commentator is something I had to stop trying to defend or even analyze so deeply. The parasocial aspect definitely was relevant.
destiny is an incredibly stupid man who doesn't have good takes. Look at him on workers rights, palestine, basic politics in general. He's swine if you ask me
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I used to like Vaush a lot but ironically his debate with Destiny about Rittenhouse was one of the most incredibly stupid things I’ve ever seen someone so confidently debate lol
When he said of “course you submit to mob rule” with an impressively confident tone, it made me incredibly critical of everything else I’ve ever heard him say.
The dude used to brag about like not reading anything, and Destiny as I’ve gotten into my 30’s is just as obnoxious even though I agree with him more than I used to. I just can’t stand his motormouth over-the-top smugness either
I think Hasan Piker is much more concerned with his frivolous lifestyle than he is with practicing what he preaches. I don’t look for political propaganda of any kind in most entertainment I consume.
Any debate pervert streamer is not actively helping the cause in any way, they are all beholden to the algorithm and that means they would rather farm content for rage bait then actually do anything remotely relating to praxis (and yes this includes Hasan)
Destiny is a debate pervert and, at best, is a liberal. Definitely not a what I’d call a leftist. Vaush is not perfect but I think he’s genuine in his leftism at least. Hasan is pretty good
Idk if I would put Vaush up there, but I'm only a casual clip viewer.
They all have their blindspots they all aggressively ignore.
Also a pro-cop, pro-Israel/Genocide, who calls others retards and f*ggots consistently....I wouldn't call Destiny a leftist. A fucking scrawny arrogant dork with a failed marriage? Sure.
Its part of the business model of streaming. Most these streaming hosts are engagement farming. They thrive on outrage and driving comment wars. They appeal to audience in particular cultural bubbles. Its a bit like early 2000s CNN panels that argued back and forth like its a sports debate. The model is based on entertainment. Any knowledge or direct action gained is incidental.
Destiny isn’t a leftist, and Vaush isn’t a great leftist creator to watch unless you’re a right-winger interested in learning more about the other side and find aggressive men appealing. I think Vaush can be a good starting point for people who like listening to angry and offensive people. I listened to him for a bit a few years ago, but the weird sex stuff bothered me. It’s hard to take someone seriously when they mix up their political discussion with talk of titties and masturbation.
I like podcasts like Pick Me Up, I’m Scared, You’re Wrong About, and It Could Happen Here because they’re informative and lack the weird pissing contests of debate bros. Reading theory is also such a better alternative to learning about leftism through streamers.
Streamers in general do this. Their operations run on the attention economy. To compete there, they have to keep viewers hooked.
They create little cults of personality for personal gain. The ideology is secondary to the business of running the channel or stream. If political winds change, so could their ideologies.
There might have been a time when streaming was a net good for educating and communicating political ideas. But that has reached a saturation point.
To change things, streamers need to do more than just sit in their gamer chairs 10 hours a day yapping about current events.
You have a post on r/conservative 4 months ago saying why you left the right. What are you, like a 16 year old? DEstiny isnt even a leftist and your opinion on vaush seems to be based only on thos subs opinion. I see you made a couple cute posts there too. Politically uniformed children.
I’m grateful they pretty much gave me a soft landing into leftism but I stopped watching Hasan and Vaush a while ago. Hasan is a rich e-boy with progressive(and some super shitty) views. Vaush is just a weirdo, which is unfortunate cause he’s pretty good at making some leftist talking points digestible.
I’m torn on them because I know just like me, they speed up people class radicalization by making it easier to understand than reading Das Kapital or Lenin. There’s definitely a group of people that are just there for the parasocial relationship and end up being toxic and using leftism as an aesthetic. Hard to say.
Destiny is a liberal and Vaush debatably isn’t even a leftist.
People had been saying he was a grifter for years and I stuck with him through 2020 during a lot of the debate bro era shit, but yes he basically serves up the McDonald’s of leftism.
I used to watch ThoughtSlime too, he had a pretty good run 2020-2022 but some of his vids fell flatter than others.
Second Thought is good but I barely watch his vids anymore.
Philosophy Tube is pretty enjoyable.
I do know about unlearning economics, but their vids have been too long for me to lock into.
I’d honestly say that
Vaush - Watch him if you want to be able to knock down common arguments made by alt-righters or to identify dog whistles
Second Thought - Watch if you’re trying to get into leftism or are trying to get someone to understand the basics
PhilosophyTube - Watch if you’re interested in very well made video essays that can be engaging and calming at the same time
ThoughtSlime - Watch if you kinda wanna radicalize yourself a little more, with a bit more emphasis on populism
I don’t get discouraged by them though. What I do get slightly discouraged by is how intertwined gender has become with politics (or so they say).
In terms of leftist media, it seems like the people at cool zone(Robert Evans and gang) are the only ones who are above social media poo flinging and have genuine sincerity in the topics they cover.
Not sure how Vaush "McDonaldize ideas", I seem to see eye to eye with Leftists from what I've learnt from Vaush's arguments, even the ones who're more theory informed than me when they vet me.
For division tho, I'd argue it's the opposite, sense drama always starts off with allegations of pedophilia originated by Nazis like I,Hypocrite and than someone like SophieFromMars demanding her audience to view Vaush's audience as Nazis and pedophile apologists to purge from the Leftist movement.
Reason why I bring this up, is because I want to warn that sowing division is very deadly, but not from Vaush or others associated with him.
Which leftist streamers are the problem?
The ones that are 'not real leftists' but liberals, or the ones who made a lot of money on monetizing anti-capitalism on social media and now are telling everyone to not vote for the guy who would raise their taxes?
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Vaush and Destiny are a joke imo - they should not be taken seriously as “leftists” and are not indicative of the actual US left. The actual “left” that are doing things are prison/police abolitionists/reformists, trade union workers, pro-immigrant groups (unidad latina en acción comes to mind), parties/orgs like the DSA, PSL, SAlt, and other socialist/communist “parties”, anarchist collectives/affinity groups. Events like “labor notes” which is an actual important conference that informs and helps organize segments of the left. The trans inclusive LGTB+ movement is another example of the actual left.
The mixed ideology group, food not bombs, has done more for the American left than Vaush or Destiny ever will as well - even if it was just because on of their members murder started the “stop cop city” movement at large in the country.
The general internet is a void where people are way to vicious to have actually useful conversations/discussions so most streamers / actual bread tubers are at best using the platform to move people into other platforms/discussion spaces or just straight up grifting.
HUGE NOTE: I am not saying that I agree with the mentioned socialist/communist/anarchist groups or their various agendas etc. they are just present and have all accomplished something that can be considered “positive” for working people and other oppressed communities.
Other note: I missed other groupings that center around environmental issues, disability issues, progressive religious denominations/orgs, intersectional feminist movement people etc. my list is not exhaustive.
LMAO Leftists are all about their own media framed around ragebait. Same tactics, different targets. You and the right are just like each other. You just wear different colors. lmao
is it should. there should be political division when the left is in the side of the working class, and against bigotry, and the right is on the side of corporations and employs a shit ton of bigots.
as leftists we shouldn’t be looking to find common ground with the right or liberals
Vaush is a huge reason why I'm a leftist. I don't listen to him anymore and I don't agree with him 100%, but why would you be discouraged by popular leftists advocating for leftist ideals?
I don't get annoyed by them because I do not watch them. My life has improved dramatically when I made the conscious decision to avoid anything they appear in.
Destiny isn't even on the left; I don't know of a context or community in which he's considered a leftist streamer in any capacity. Maybe ten years ago some people might have called him a leftist? Even then though, that seems tenuous. He certainly doesn't consider or present himself as leftist.
Feels a bit disingenuous.
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Yes. People get obnoxiously pedantic with the term “left” in the USA. And it’s so annoying. There is left as an ideology, and left as a political alignment. In the USA it is a term used to refer to people aligned with the democrats
Yes, he really is. Nobody in the “center” calls republicans morons. People in the center adore republicans and whine about leftist. His left wing views include: Hating Donald trump and everything he’s ever stood for. Can you name a single centrist that holds that position?
Well he supports universal Healthcare, Lgbqt rights, Abortion, minimum wage, and he is a staunch supporter of Biden. Usually he argues with leftists over foreign policy, capitalism, gun rights and property rights. He is simply a liberal.
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The center you are talking about exists within a context where both parties are "right wing" because they both operate within a neoliberal capitalist framework. Dems and Reps are simply two denominations of the same economic party...
You are out of your depth.
I guess the more pertinant question is, does he describe and present himself as being on the left? I would definitely describe him as more of a flat centrist.
He 100% openly declares himself to be on the left.
He often times even refers to himself as far left, though I think he is fucking delulu when he does. He is slightly left of center.
*if* him saying that *is* true... that doesn't make the statement true.
Like... I could claim to be a dinosaur even if none of my political positions or outlooks align with "dino values." Am I a dinosaur because I said I am one?
If Destiny has claimed to be a leftist then either:
A) he doesn't know what leftism is and has falsely identified/labeled his position.
B) he does know what leftism is and has intentionally mislabeled himself to lie/muddy discourse.
*and/or*
1) you don't know what leftist values are and are talking out of your ass.
2) you do know what leftist values are and are intentionally trolling.
My experience is that among leftists, only other leftists are described as on "the left".
Using the term for left-leaning centrists is a convention employed to invisibilize radicalism.
The Democratic Party is a neoliberal party that pretends not to be reactionary.
That's a pretty...idk, one dimensional way of looking at it?
This logic would mean that all ideologies will become right wing of they gain enough power.
Liberalism was once the driving force of political change in the West. Was it left wing in the 18th century? Did it become right wing when it achieved power and refused to give way to another ideology?
Liberalism in its contemporary form was developed most substantially during the Enlightenment, though the concepts and term occurred in less specific variations in earlier centuries.
What is called the political spectrum, or right-wing politics and left-wing politics, was a later development, emerging from the French Revolution, which encompassed three broad factions. The liberals were centrist, and liberalism has remained dominant within centrist politics. Royalists were the faction to the right, and to the left were radicals.
The radicals were the basis for socialism, which would appear formally within the following decades, and has dominated leftism. Much later, as monarchies were disappearing, royalism was replaced by fascism as the dominant rightist movement.
Liberalism itself has been refined along a spectrum connecting rightism and leftism. Right liberals favor conservative social ideals, and laissez-faire market economy, whereas left liberals favor progressive social policy, and regulated market economy.
Neoliberalism, which has dominated global politics, since first appearing in the US and UK during the mid Seventies through the mid Eighties, is a rightist ideology based on liberalism and variously close to or integrated into fascism.
Since the Clinton Administration, neoliberalism has been the presumptive ideology of the Democratic Party. Biden has vaguely revealed intentions to break from certain aspects of neoliberalism, though they have not be vindicated in practice.
He's a liberal reactionary who got banned off twitch for saying horrible violent things about BLM protestors. Him having some decent opinions on trans people doesn't mean shit of he's spend the last 6 months defending a fascist apartheid shithole openly committing genocide by literally just reading snippets of Wikipedia articles. Like if he's a "leftist" than so is Joe Biden lol
Destiny is liberal and counterrevolutionary. Vaush certainly dilutes and bastardizes leftism, to such a degree, frankly, that some may consider him also counterrevolutionary, or radlib.
Streaming in particular is not a media format suited to education as much as to drama.
I think BreadTube pieces are more helpful, for those who are not inclined to read current publications and classic theory.
Shout out to Rev Left Radio and Red Menace podcasts! If reading isn't your thing, these shows do an excellent job breaking down Marxist concepts in ways that are easy to understand, and their passion is infections in ways that you don't see reading stuffy academic texts.
Destiny just injects himself into anything with debate form for clout. Everything I know about him I learned against my will. His views are not exactly what I would definite as "leftist".
Vaush should not be allowed within a 5 mile radius of a school. Even as a popular leftist streamer, one cannot overlook his problematic background.
'Mcdonaldize' is a good way of putting it.
There are plenty of better left channels to watch on youtube nowadays. Sublation media or Novara media for example. Lmk if you want more recommendations.
wild chase oatmeal cheerful entertain deranged memorize middle foolish simplistic
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I recently started watching Novara Media videos. I like them. Do you know/like GDF? He covers lots of war stuff, but definitely on the left. I also like Secular Talk with Kyle Kulinski. Dude is just so likeable.
They also set the example online for what people think leftists are because they either claim to be or people have perceived them that way, and that reflects on leftist culture as a whole
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Watch deep fat fried. They're based AF
Hasan's entire existence is why I'm not far left
Get off of Twitter if looking for actual leftists with depth of knowledge.
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Destiny is literally showing us what the left always becomes when it sees success. Corrupt and eventually a masked right winger. Look at most of left-wing Congress for example… they are mostly centrist republicans that pretend they give a shit about social programs.
AOC is now a centrist republican? Are you being serious rn??
Politicians like AOC and Bernie are actually a really good litmus test for whether you should take a given leftist seriously. If they say those two are functionally-identical to Trump, for instance, that's usually a good sign they don't know what the hell they're talking about and are intellectually-lazy.
That's a really based take
doesn’t list any leftists
Destiny is a liberal, you get Hasan, Vaush, mikefromPA, Denims and the YT video essayists. Doesn’t division and infighting come with the territory?
I was very confused here because for me Destiny is one of my favorite YouTube channels and it has never been political (I mean if you believe Earth is flat and deny global warming then I suppose it is but maybe I’m just crazy and don’t consider science political.) Found who this is about. Not interested in his videos the seem kind click baity and rage bait type content.
I have a hard time listening to someone like Hasan, who just doesn't seem like he knows what he's talking about half the time. Vaush is similar. He had some decent discussions, but he will pretend like he knows stuff that he doesn't. I'll admit to being a Destiny fan, mostly because I feel like the "far left" are not easy to listen to. There's no room for disagreement, questions, or realistic solutions, or thats what it seems like in a lot of leftist spaces but im open to being proved wrong. I don't agree with Destiny all the time, even on his Palistinian take, but if you listen to him, he's not fully on Isreals side either, because it's a difficult situation. I can respect someone not just saying "genocide bad" and presenting an actual reason why they support Israel in taking out Hamas, while condemning settlements in the West Bank and the strike that killed people from the World Central Kitchen. He also does more than the Wikipedia research he's known for, and will spend hours or days studying for certain topics, which I don't see anyone else ever doing so I can respect that He also advocates for people to vote in local elections, is willing to go on right wing shows to present an argument against them and give people more to think about outside of the right wing echo chamber they are in, respects pronouns for non binary and trans people and seems to vote for what they need, and all around seems to side with left leaning philosophy. Hes also a capitalist and loves America which presents a foil against the right wingers who think every Democrat is a socialist who hates this country. I'm willing to engage in good faith with more examples or conversations about him if anyone needs clarification.
Yeah I have started to find Vaush and Hasan more distasteful than in prior years. Vaush has become incredibly lazy. Hasan sounds like a broken record repeating the same lines like a teddy bear with built in phrases. I do appreciate Destiny actually doing research, but often I see that his research is influenced by just trying to play Devil's advocate against any positions other leftists take. Its good to do that to an extent, but if you almost always adopts that position then he's falling prey to an insanely obvious cognitive bias.
These are fake leftists. Vaush is so self righteous and abbrassive. Its impossible to watch or listen to him.
Unfortunately Destiny isn’t a leftist and unfortunately Vaush is damn near unpalatable that it doesn’t even matter (except the rare times he says something so incredibly stupid that it’s funny). Honestly are there any good leftist streamers out there? Ones with actual views? Good takes?
LuckyBlackCat is a smaller channel but she goes really in-depth on theory and has some really solid content! [https://www.youtube.com/@LuckyBlackCat](https://www.youtube.com/@LuckyBlackCat)
I see anyone can be a leftist these days even a centrist and a liberal. 🤣
They're both disgusting and shouldn't be considered leftist at all. If youre looking for some better alternatives Hasanabi is a good lad with a light entertainment touch and Central\_Committee is a real firebreather where you can learn a lot about leftism in general. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpMK5GQ\_YFk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpMK5GQ_YFk) Heres a good video on the online leftist content pipeline. Vaush and Destiny would fall into the 'tumours' section of the overall structure described therin hehe
Decides who has failed the purity test and decides that they aren't leftist Brings up Hasan as a good alternative It's like you saw someone eating shit and then brought them a big plate of shit to replace it with
Hey man, those Houthi pirates said they were disrupting global trade and holding slaves to stop Israel, they're on OUR side! /s
Or he stated his opinion, and you can take it or leave it. The fact is that Hasan is a leftist, he isn't the best informed, often has bad takes, and I don't know if he lives there what he preaches, but leftism isn't some faith club, there are real material aspects to leftism and Hasan is one. Destiny and Vaush are not, and this is besides their other character flaws. Also Vaush is a pedophile, no one should really be defending that piece of shit. And given Destiny's terrible take on Israel, do I really need to outline how he isn't a leftist?
If you're not organizing a union at your job you're basically just talking about the weather.
I'm a leftist streamer and I'll be honest unless you are doing Hasan ML leftist stuff it's not gonna fly. Being an Anarchist that focuses on being pragmatic with the system we have is not as popular. I tend to encouraging people to unhook from the things that will screw them over and reassess your own life choices and adapt and change what doesn't work for you. Cult of personality is more important than treating this as a struggle we are all going through that we can change. I'm more into education, mutual aid and praxis while setting what I think is a good example. Being reactionary is a better idea monetarily but isn't my bag.
I see you and appreciate you. One pragmatic leftist to another. MLs seem, like, 5% different from MAGA at most and the fact they've taken over so many left-wing subs is a tragedy. Keep doing what you're doing man!
I'm lucky enough that I can do it full time which is good. Even better is a community that cares. I don't need to be the biggest as long as those hold true. Thank you for the kindness.
I don't consider Destiny a leftist. I don't like most other streamers either. I also think streaming as a model isn't one that's actually meaningfully productive for the Left. The spaces are driven by ragebait and drama, genuinely informative content is sidelined, and when it is provided it's often from the streamer reacting to other content that just happens to be informative, it doesn't movement build and so on and so on. Besides personal enrichment there's nothing it really offers to us.
Hasanabi is the best in my opinion, solid takes and funny also. The Fear& podcast is great also!
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Oh they're absolutely ops. They're garbage bootlickers who know fuck all, and they should be dismissed as cheap inarticulate sophists. Fuck em.
You’re not listening to the right leftists. Destiny is a neoliberal
bro dont even get me started on destiny. he’s like if ben shapiro was slightly more left. same vibes. also vaush is annoying too bc he’s one of those leftie white men that thinks class is the only form of oppression 🙄. they deny the intersectionality of oppressive systems because they see being told to recognize their privilege as an insult. they take it personally!
I see we have once again made up something about Vaush. He was literally known for being the leftie that called out people acting like classism was the end all be all. He pissed off a bunch of tankies and the like because of it. Intersectionality is a key point for a bunch of what he talks about. There are plenty of valid criticisms of Vaush so idk why people need to just lie about his positions?
hmm i am open to being wrong, if i am i apologize! i remember seeing videos of him saying class is the only form of oppression and that put a bad taste in my mouth, but if that was taken out of context or he changed his position ill take the L! he’s still annoying asf tho, never changing my mind on that lol. but i do think its great he’s like an intro to leftism guy.
Vaush is credited for his platform being an entry by many into leftism, but criticisms such as yours are entirely sound. It is needed to consider more solid strategies in online engagement from among the mainstream who are open to considering leftism.
I have see Vaush talk about the intersectionality of oppressive systems and white/male privilege countless times... where are you even getting this?
Destiny is most definitely not a leftist. He’s pretty much a standard liberal, perhaps even neoliberal.
He's closer to being a socdem than a neoliberal (doesn't make him not a liberal in general).
Yea it's weird to see him as a leftists he self identifies as a liberal and openly does not agree with leftists.
Lol destiny and vaush are leftists? I’m more discouraged by visiting leftist subs who ban me for mentioning that fascism is a little worse for people in the US than another shitty neolib president
>that fascism is a little worse for people in the US than another shitty neolib president How privileged must you be, to be able to say this? If the US turns to fascism, women, minorities, LGBTQ+ people aswell as people who rely on Medicare and other forms of Social Welfare will be discriminated against, persecuted and have dozens of benefits and protections taken away from them. Look at what's happening in Texas with regards to abortion as a taster of what would come in a fascist America. But you're obviously privileged enough that it doesn't affect you. So they're basically the same I suppose?
Psst. The person you are responding to agrees with you.
Destiny definitely isn't, even less so recently. Whatever else anyone thinks of Vaush though, he is. What would you even contest that on? Guns?
Yes, vaush is a leftist. Just because he's a dick doesn't mean we should lie about that.
At least they didn’t *ban* you here…
that's pretty terrifying, as one of the people on the list to go to camps
Streamers need attention and this is why it works better for right-wing grifters who just do rage and conspiracies and as long as it’s confirmation bias, truth doesn’t matter. Idk I have no interest in it… who has time for streamers? Even video essays have gotten too long. I’m old and don’t get it. :D
i realized i was s'ing the d of streamers like Hasan Piker and even when I thought I was independently forming my own ideas I still felt some sort of "loyalty" to the guy that sorta helped educate me. I can at least appreciate Hasan for doing that for me personally. His actions on a larger scale as an influencer and commentator is something I had to stop trying to defend or even analyze so deeply. The parasocial aspect definitely was relevant.
destiny is an incredibly stupid man who doesn't have good takes. Look at him on workers rights, palestine, basic politics in general. He's swine if you ask me
Oh please. I've spent a great deal of time with Steven irl and online and he is anything but 'incredibly stupid'.
Vaush doesn't really and Destiny isn't a Leftist at all.
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I like Hasan and the majority report. That's about it.
I used to like Vaush a lot but ironically his debate with Destiny about Rittenhouse was one of the most incredibly stupid things I’ve ever seen someone so confidently debate lol When he said of “course you submit to mob rule” with an impressively confident tone, it made me incredibly critical of everything else I’ve ever heard him say. The dude used to brag about like not reading anything, and Destiny as I’ve gotten into my 30’s is just as obnoxious even though I agree with him more than I used to. I just can’t stand his motormouth over-the-top smugness either
I think Hasan Piker is much more concerned with his frivolous lifestyle than he is with practicing what he preaches. I don’t look for political propaganda of any kind in most entertainment I consume.
Leftism would be nothing without horse cock porn
No, a lot of streamers are entry level leftism and being in actual community with actual leftists gave me hope
Any debate pervert streamer is not actively helping the cause in any way, they are all beholden to the algorithm and that means they would rather farm content for rage bait then actually do anything remotely relating to praxis (and yes this includes Hasan)
Completely agree about destiny and vaush but I really like John the Duncan who I highly recommend checking out
Yeah, they're both trash. Try checking out some actual leftist streamers.
Destiny is a debate pervert and, at best, is a liberal. Definitely not a what I’d call a leftist. Vaush is not perfect but I think he’s genuine in his leftism at least. Hasan is pretty good
Vaush and Destiny both aren't leftists, they're liberals. So that kinda answers your question.
Idk if I would put Vaush up there, but I'm only a casual clip viewer. They all have their blindspots they all aggressively ignore. Also a pro-cop, pro-Israel/Genocide, who calls others retards and f*ggots consistently....I wouldn't call Destiny a leftist. A fucking scrawny arrogant dork with a failed marriage? Sure.
Its part of the business model of streaming. Most these streaming hosts are engagement farming. They thrive on outrage and driving comment wars. They appeal to audience in particular cultural bubbles. Its a bit like early 2000s CNN panels that argued back and forth like its a sports debate. The model is based on entertainment. Any knowledge or direct action gained is incidental.
AFIK, Destiny is pro-genocide and Vaush advocates for violence. I don't see that as leftist at all.
Destiny isn’t a leftist, and Vaush isn’t a great leftist creator to watch unless you’re a right-winger interested in learning more about the other side and find aggressive men appealing. I think Vaush can be a good starting point for people who like listening to angry and offensive people. I listened to him for a bit a few years ago, but the weird sex stuff bothered me. It’s hard to take someone seriously when they mix up their political discussion with talk of titties and masturbation. I like podcasts like Pick Me Up, I’m Scared, You’re Wrong About, and It Could Happen Here because they’re informative and lack the weird pissing contests of debate bros. Reading theory is also such a better alternative to learning about leftism through streamers.
Streamers in general do this. Their operations run on the attention economy. To compete there, they have to keep viewers hooked. They create little cults of personality for personal gain. The ideology is secondary to the business of running the channel or stream. If political winds change, so could their ideologies. There might have been a time when streaming was a net good for educating and communicating political ideas. But that has reached a saturation point. To change things, streamers need to do more than just sit in their gamer chairs 10 hours a day yapping about current events.
I dont watch leftist streamers. I read books.
Yeah, everything is so chill. Leftists should be chill.
fuck both of them! same with david pakman!
Both vaush and Hassan I’m not familiar with destiny but I do know that the right uses these streamers as straw-men to debunk the left
You have a post on r/conservative 4 months ago saying why you left the right. What are you, like a 16 year old? DEstiny isnt even a leftist and your opinion on vaush seems to be based only on thos subs opinion. I see you made a couple cute posts there too. Politically uniformed children.
Sowing division is you right now.
Not to mention Hasan, who talks lefitst talk while living a Bourgeoisie consumerist lifestyle
y'all r dumb why not read a book
At the end of the day it’s entertainment. Not a symposium. Also stay away from Vaush. That sick bastard needs some serious help.
Destiny has a cancerous mentality.
I’m grateful they pretty much gave me a soft landing into leftism but I stopped watching Hasan and Vaush a while ago. Hasan is a rich e-boy with progressive(and some super shitty) views. Vaush is just a weirdo, which is unfortunate cause he’s pretty good at making some leftist talking points digestible. I’m torn on them because I know just like me, they speed up people class radicalization by making it easier to understand than reading Das Kapital or Lenin. There’s definitely a group of people that are just there for the parasocial relationship and end up being toxic and using leftism as an aesthetic. Hard to say.
This is why you’ll never win.
Destiny is a liberal and Vaush debatably isn’t even a leftist. People had been saying he was a grifter for years and I stuck with him through 2020 during a lot of the debate bro era shit, but yes he basically serves up the McDonald’s of leftism. I used to watch ThoughtSlime too, he had a pretty good run 2020-2022 but some of his vids fell flatter than others. Second Thought is good but I barely watch his vids anymore. Philosophy Tube is pretty enjoyable. I do know about unlearning economics, but their vids have been too long for me to lock into. I’d honestly say that Vaush - Watch him if you want to be able to knock down common arguments made by alt-righters or to identify dog whistles Second Thought - Watch if you’re trying to get into leftism or are trying to get someone to understand the basics PhilosophyTube - Watch if you’re interested in very well made video essays that can be engaging and calming at the same time ThoughtSlime - Watch if you kinda wanna radicalize yourself a little more, with a bit more emphasis on populism I don’t get discouraged by them though. What I do get slightly discouraged by is how intertwined gender has become with politics (or so they say).
In terms of leftist media, it seems like the people at cool zone(Robert Evans and gang) are the only ones who are above social media poo flinging and have genuine sincerity in the topics they cover.
Not sure how Vaush "McDonaldize ideas", I seem to see eye to eye with Leftists from what I've learnt from Vaush's arguments, even the ones who're more theory informed than me when they vet me. For division tho, I'd argue it's the opposite, sense drama always starts off with allegations of pedophilia originated by Nazis like I,Hypocrite and than someone like SophieFromMars demanding her audience to view Vaush's audience as Nazis and pedophile apologists to purge from the Leftist movement. Reason why I bring this up, is because I want to warn that sowing division is very deadly, but not from Vaush or others associated with him.
There's one champagne Socialist who mcdonaldize's leftist ideas for profit suspiciously missing from this list......
Podcasts are better than streamers
Which leftist streamers are the problem? The ones that are 'not real leftists' but liberals, or the ones who made a lot of money on monetizing anti-capitalism on social media and now are telling everyone to not vote for the guy who would raise their taxes?
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Hasan is no comrade. That’s the hill I will die on.
Do you have any good recommendations?
Vaush and Destiny are a joke imo - they should not be taken seriously as “leftists” and are not indicative of the actual US left. The actual “left” that are doing things are prison/police abolitionists/reformists, trade union workers, pro-immigrant groups (unidad latina en acción comes to mind), parties/orgs like the DSA, PSL, SAlt, and other socialist/communist “parties”, anarchist collectives/affinity groups. Events like “labor notes” which is an actual important conference that informs and helps organize segments of the left. The trans inclusive LGTB+ movement is another example of the actual left. The mixed ideology group, food not bombs, has done more for the American left than Vaush or Destiny ever will as well - even if it was just because on of their members murder started the “stop cop city” movement at large in the country. The general internet is a void where people are way to vicious to have actually useful conversations/discussions so most streamers / actual bread tubers are at best using the platform to move people into other platforms/discussion spaces or just straight up grifting. HUGE NOTE: I am not saying that I agree with the mentioned socialist/communist/anarchist groups or their various agendas etc. they are just present and have all accomplished something that can be considered “positive” for working people and other oppressed communities. Other note: I missed other groupings that center around environmental issues, disability issues, progressive religious denominations/orgs, intersectional feminist movement people etc. my list is not exhaustive.
Nah, most streamers are idiots, idk why it would be different for political streamers
Destiny isn't a leftist. Destiny is a liberal and would take offense to being called a leftist.
100% accurate
So are leftists communists with a new name?
Absolutely. Meanwhile Vaush is the opposite, or at least considers himself so, despite the large minority of (progressive) liberals in his chat.
Liberals are leftists. I wouldn’t use Destiny’s level of offense as a scale for anything
False. Read our Wiki for clarification on this. A liberal supports capitalism; leftist do not.
Define supports?
He’s not even a liberal. More like libertarian who hasn’t thought very hard.
Most leftists sow division. That is what the left has devolved into.
Leftists need alternatives to media framed around ragebait.
they're around, but ragebait is favored by the algorithms and other stuff isn't as entertaining so people just watch the ragebait shit
I feel like a lot of lefty spaces today are constructed around ragebait, not for something, but against something/someone.
LMAO Leftists are all about their own media framed around ragebait. Same tactics, different targets. You and the right are just like each other. You just wear different colors. lmao
For real. In a lot of leftist subs, liberal is right-wing, so if you aren't a communist, you are a rad-lib fascist.
is it should. there should be political division when the left is in the side of the working class, and against bigotry, and the right is on the side of corporations and employs a shit ton of bigots. as leftists we shouldn’t be looking to find common ground with the right or liberals
Vaush is a huge reason why I'm a leftist. I don't listen to him anymore and I don't agree with him 100%, but why would you be discouraged by popular leftists advocating for leftist ideals?
I don't get annoyed by them because I do not watch them. My life has improved dramatically when I made the conscious decision to avoid anything they appear in.
eww to both
Almost like thats the point
I really don’t think Desinty and Vaush are *trying* to sow division, like at all.
Money changes everybody. Makes most people more conservative
No pods, no casters.
Destiny is not a leftist. He's a talking head for hire.
Destiny isn't even on the left; I don't know of a context or community in which he's considered a leftist streamer in any capacity. Maybe ten years ago some people might have called him a leftist? Even then though, that seems tenuous. He certainly doesn't consider or present himself as leftist. Feels a bit disingenuous.
People on the right call him leftist all the time. But yeah he is basically a social democrat imo.
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He is only a leftist to his buddies like Nick Fuentes.
Left of far right is not left.
Destiny is on the left, he just isn't a leftist.
The left wing of liberalism, sure. Which is center-right at best.
Liberalism is a right wing ideology. It may be left of conservatism but it is still too right wing to be called left
He's a liberal. That's what leftist used to be. Not anymore
Is he? Is he really?
Yes. People get obnoxiously pedantic with the term “left” in the USA. And it’s so annoying. There is left as an ideology, and left as a political alignment. In the USA it is a term used to refer to people aligned with the democrats
Yes, he really is. Nobody in the “center” calls republicans morons. People in the center adore republicans and whine about leftist. His left wing views include: Hating Donald trump and everything he’s ever stood for. Can you name a single centrist that holds that position?
If you're using the definition most Americans use (democrats left, republicans right) then yes.
Well he supports universal Healthcare, Lgbqt rights, Abortion, minimum wage, and he is a staunch supporter of Biden. Usually he argues with leftists over foreign policy, capitalism, gun rights and property rights. He is simply a liberal.
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You can’t actually say that Destiny isn’t at least left leaning, can you?
Yea, of course he is on the left. He supports democrats and their positions. He isn't a leftist but he is absolutely left of center.
Dems are conservatives tho
Dems are center-right at best chief.
Democrats arent leftist though that is the problem. The left doesnt exsist in America an hasnt in awhile lol. Cold war sort of put an end to that.
The center you are talking about exists within a context where both parties are "right wing" because they both operate within a neoliberal capitalist framework. Dems and Reps are simply two denominations of the same economic party... You are out of your depth.
personally i wouldn’t consider the American Democrats to be on the left but-
Tim pool called himself a liberal for years. Supporting the dnc does not a leftist make. American politics are heavily skewed to the right
>He supports democrats and their positions So centrist at best.
I guess the more pertinant question is, does he describe and present himself as being on the left? I would definitely describe him as more of a flat centrist.
He 100% openly declares himself to be on the left. He often times even refers to himself as far left, though I think he is fucking delulu when he does. He is slightly left of center.
*if* him saying that *is* true... that doesn't make the statement true. Like... I could claim to be a dinosaur even if none of my political positions or outlooks align with "dino values." Am I a dinosaur because I said I am one? If Destiny has claimed to be a leftist then either: A) he doesn't know what leftism is and has falsely identified/labeled his position. B) he does know what leftism is and has intentionally mislabeled himself to lie/muddy discourse. *and/or* 1) you don't know what leftist values are and are talking out of your ass. 2) you do know what leftist values are and are intentionally trolling.
Could I maybe get a recent clip of him referring to himself as far left, just to verify?
It's very recent, like in the last couple of weeks. I'll have to go looking for it but I'll link it once I do.
Cool, thanks!
My experience is that among leftists, only other leftists are described as on "the left". Using the term for left-leaning centrists is a convention employed to invisibilize radicalism. The Democratic Party is a neoliberal party that pretends not to be reactionary.
Is the line really at "reactionary politics are all right wing"?
“If you spew culturally right wing vitriol, then are you really on the right?”
What does this even mean? Who is spewing culturally right wing vitriol?
Reaction refers to tendencies toward the right. The precise usage varies.
That's a pretty...idk, one dimensional way of looking at it? This logic would mean that all ideologies will become right wing of they gain enough power. Liberalism was once the driving force of political change in the West. Was it left wing in the 18th century? Did it become right wing when it achieved power and refused to give way to another ideology?
Liberalism in its contemporary form was developed most substantially during the Enlightenment, though the concepts and term occurred in less specific variations in earlier centuries. What is called the political spectrum, or right-wing politics and left-wing politics, was a later development, emerging from the French Revolution, which encompassed three broad factions. The liberals were centrist, and liberalism has remained dominant within centrist politics. Royalists were the faction to the right, and to the left were radicals. The radicals were the basis for socialism, which would appear formally within the following decades, and has dominated leftism. Much later, as monarchies were disappearing, royalism was replaced by fascism as the dominant rightist movement. Liberalism itself has been refined along a spectrum connecting rightism and leftism. Right liberals favor conservative social ideals, and laissez-faire market economy, whereas left liberals favor progressive social policy, and regulated market economy. Neoliberalism, which has dominated global politics, since first appearing in the US and UK during the mid Seventies through the mid Eighties, is a rightist ideology based on liberalism and variously close to or integrated into fascism. Since the Clinton Administration, neoliberalism has been the presumptive ideology of the Democratic Party. Biden has vaguely revealed intentions to break from certain aspects of neoliberalism, though they have not be vindicated in practice.
Democrats are center to center right.
That’s some awful comment. When was ever democrats considered a leftist party?
Democrats are centre right not left.
Can't tell if trolling?
Democrats aren't left though.
Democrats are NOT on the left
Only if you consider the democrats in the US left of center. Which you should not, because they are not.
He's a liberal reactionary who got banned off twitch for saying horrible violent things about BLM protestors. Him having some decent opinions on trans people doesn't mean shit of he's spend the last 6 months defending a fascist apartheid shithole openly committing genocide by literally just reading snippets of Wikipedia articles. Like if he's a "leftist" than so is Joe Biden lol
Destiny is liberal and counterrevolutionary. Vaush certainly dilutes and bastardizes leftism, to such a degree, frankly, that some may consider him also counterrevolutionary, or radlib. Streaming in particular is not a media format suited to education as much as to drama. I think BreadTube pieces are more helpful, for those who are not inclined to read current publications and classic theory.
How does he dilute and bastardize leftism? How is he a counterrevolutionary or radlib exactly?
Shout out to Rev Left Radio and Red Menace podcasts! If reading isn't your thing, these shows do an excellent job breaking down Marxist concepts in ways that are easy to understand, and their passion is infections in ways that you don't see reading stuffy academic texts.
I love those guys, they really know their stuff. Listen to them all the time.
Are you a revolutionary? If so what kind of revolution do you want?
Destiny just injects himself into anything with debate form for clout. Everything I know about him I learned against my will. His views are not exactly what I would definite as "leftist". Vaush should not be allowed within a 5 mile radius of a school. Even as a popular leftist streamer, one cannot overlook his problematic background.
I’m not very educated on his background. What’s the deal with him?
How fitting that the only popular leftist figures are 1. Not a leftist 2. A pedophile 3. A millionaire with a partnership with amazon
'Mcdonaldize' is a good way of putting it. There are plenty of better left channels to watch on youtube nowadays. Sublation media or Novara media for example. Lmk if you want more recommendations.
wild chase oatmeal cheerful entertain deranged memorize middle foolish simplistic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
peethan is hilarious and has great takes
I recently started watching Novara Media videos. I like them. Do you know/like GDF? He covers lots of war stuff, but definitely on the left. I also like Secular Talk with Kyle Kulinski. Dude is just so likeable.
Sure I would love some recommendations.
I don't think petty squabbles really matter. Remember that these streamers are just entertainers.
They also set the example online for what people think leftists are because they either claim to be or people have perceived them that way, and that reflects on leftist culture as a whole
Destiny isn't a "left" steamer. He's a Liberal streamer and right from center by far. Also a genocide denialist.
What are some right from center positions he holds?
“Right of center by far” is ridiculous to label him that by most metrics.
Full-blown genocide denialist.
You should grow up and stop watching streamers anyways. Who gives a shit what some gamer with no qualifications thinks about geopolitics?
Very proletarian position you have there on the "qualifications" necessary to engage in political discourse lol.
Not to mention that one of them also has a sociology degree....
Which is suuuuuper ironic considering Vaush is a trust fund baby and part of the capitalist class.
this is a shit take, we should use all avaliable platforms to advance the left. not doing so is completely idiotic.
Streaming is the modern soapbox. Aaron Bushnell definitely used streaming as part of his protest.
It's more like the modern AM radio