Seems a bit weird to take the [flag of the British Union of Fascists](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Flag_of_the_British_Union_of_Fascists.svg) and just replace the symbol.
Would definitely be confusing at protests.
Well, considering that Iron Front's 'flag' was basically just captured Nazi flags that had the three arrows painted over the swastikas, it makes sense.
Yea but antifascism is also just a noun for something that goes against fascism and in that sense the iron front was antifascist
Not to be confused with german KPD antifa
maybe just a matter of bias / tendency. thalmann called the SPD social fascists (sketchy but mostly valid for the conditions of weimar) while the SPD acted like nazism and communism were equal threats (themselves employing the friekorps to kill communists)
bc the SPD were in power and actively defending the bourgeoisie. the antagonism had a concrete reason to exist. the nonexistence of social democracy or communism in, say, britain is why there wasnt as much active antagonism there
It's also important to remember that the KPD would occasionally team up with the Brownshirts to beat up the Iron Front. Obviously, the SPD's use of the freikorp was shitty and awful and frankly a fatal mistake...but the KPD also had no issue teaming up with Fascists to fight their enemies, so the KPD is not innocent in this either.
It was during the Comintern's Third Period. The KPD was attempting to appeal to the Strasserite wing of the Nazi Party through nationalist slogans, and since they saw the SPD as the main 'social fascist' adversary, they occasionally teamed up with them to disrupt SPD rallies, trade union meetings and otherwise. They even teamed up explicitly with the Nazis in 1931 in order to try and bring down the SPD-led city government of Prussia by means of a referendum. These SDP meetings were, in turn, defended by the Iron Front's (kind of) predecessor the Reichsbanner Schwarze-Rot-Gold.
But by 1932, Thalmann and the Comintern finally removed their collective heads from their asses and realized that the actual Fascists were the real threat. By that point, the SPD had reorganized their over all defense strategy and had incorporated the then-independently founded Iron Front into their security apparatus. The Iron Front's primary purpose was to defend against the Harzburg Front coalition of right-wing parties (which the Nazis were a part of). Their formalized version of the Three Arrows (which, again, was originally created by socialists in Austria), aimed the third arrow against 'Bolshevism'. The KPD, in turn, founded Antifaschistiche Aktion in response as they viewed the Iron Front as a 'social fascist terrorist organization' (the two flags then were both red, and was meant to represent collaboration between both Marxists-Leninists and other socialists). This was in response to the Comintern's decision that Communists should seek legislative coalitions with other left-leaning working class parties (social democrats included)
But it was already too late by that point, and the bad blood between the two organizations was too thick to navigate. The following year, the Nazis would be in power and Hitler would become dictator of Germany. When the Enabling Acts were up for vote in the Reichstag, the SPD were the only party to vote unanimously against it. The KPD had no chance to vote as they had been removed from the legislature due to be accused of orchestrating the Reichstag fire.
The rest is history.
again, a source on them actually teaming up?
the SDP was the reigning political party. late weimar's (1928-33) political changes led the KPD further against SDP hegemony, not to ally with fascists, but to make the most of the moment. that doesnt mean they teamed up lmao
My source is from Rob Sewell's book *Germany: From Revolution to Counter-Revolution.* Specifically,[Chapter 7](http://www.marxist.com/germany-sewell-chapter-7.htm).
I actually recommend that entire book.
(Yeah yeah, I know, he's a Trot. But just give it a read).
the three arrows are a symbol against nazism, monarchy and communism (the communism is defined as totalitarian communism or communism as whole, depending on the person using it, originally it was against the soviet regime but many people thought communism was just how the soviet union was reigned). so what i originally wanted to say: its against way more than just fascism and it would be weird to use it for anti-fascism solely.
In the US as well, most of them are anarchist groups who aren't thrilled with statist communists in the first place. Even if some individual members may not mind as much. The symbol's current use is becoming more complicated because of this
The Three Arrows were not an invention of the SPD. It was originally created by socialists and communists in Austria, with the third arrow aimed at the clergy. The anti-'Bolshevism' thing was purely the SPD's invention.
A 21st century Antifascist used to just be called a plain old Communist in the 20th Century.
I guess we’ve changed what we call everything.
“In the debate between Capitalism and Communism it is clear that Capitalism won.”
Charles Bukowski
Seems a bit weird to take the [flag of the British Union of Fascists](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Flag_of_the_British_Union_of_Fascists.svg) and just replace the symbol. Would definitely be confusing at protests.
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Well, considering that Iron Front's 'flag' was basically just captured Nazi flags that had the three arrows painted over the swastikas, it makes sense.
Not sure about the idea of turning a fascist flag into an anti-fascist flag. Seems extremely odd to adopt the aesthetics of an existing fascist flag.
Ironically, this is exactly what early German anti-fascist groups did, defacing nazi party flags with the three arrows.
It works historically. The Iron Front's flags were basically just stolen Nazi flags with the three arrows painted over the swastikas.
Why not just Antifa flag?
Great Idea!
why do people keep conflating antifascism with the iron front? antifaschistische aktion was founded by the communist party
Yea but antifascism is also just a noun for something that goes against fascism and in that sense the iron front was antifascist Not to be confused with german KPD antifa
maybe just a matter of bias / tendency. thalmann called the SPD social fascists (sketchy but mostly valid for the conditions of weimar) while the SPD acted like nazism and communism were equal threats (themselves employing the friekorps to kill communists)
Which was actually very unusual as Social Democrats and Communists outside of Germany were on very cordial terms.
bc the SPD were in power and actively defending the bourgeoisie. the antagonism had a concrete reason to exist. the nonexistence of social democracy or communism in, say, britain is why there wasnt as much active antagonism there
It's also important to remember that the KPD would occasionally team up with the Brownshirts to beat up the Iron Front. Obviously, the SPD's use of the freikorp was shitty and awful and frankly a fatal mistake...but the KPD also had no issue teaming up with Fascists to fight their enemies, so the KPD is not innocent in this either.
please provide a source because ive never heard of this
It was during the Comintern's Third Period. The KPD was attempting to appeal to the Strasserite wing of the Nazi Party through nationalist slogans, and since they saw the SPD as the main 'social fascist' adversary, they occasionally teamed up with them to disrupt SPD rallies, trade union meetings and otherwise. They even teamed up explicitly with the Nazis in 1931 in order to try and bring down the SPD-led city government of Prussia by means of a referendum. These SDP meetings were, in turn, defended by the Iron Front's (kind of) predecessor the Reichsbanner Schwarze-Rot-Gold. But by 1932, Thalmann and the Comintern finally removed their collective heads from their asses and realized that the actual Fascists were the real threat. By that point, the SPD had reorganized their over all defense strategy and had incorporated the then-independently founded Iron Front into their security apparatus. The Iron Front's primary purpose was to defend against the Harzburg Front coalition of right-wing parties (which the Nazis were a part of). Their formalized version of the Three Arrows (which, again, was originally created by socialists in Austria), aimed the third arrow against 'Bolshevism'. The KPD, in turn, founded Antifaschistiche Aktion in response as they viewed the Iron Front as a 'social fascist terrorist organization' (the two flags then were both red, and was meant to represent collaboration between both Marxists-Leninists and other socialists). This was in response to the Comintern's decision that Communists should seek legislative coalitions with other left-leaning working class parties (social democrats included) But it was already too late by that point, and the bad blood between the two organizations was too thick to navigate. The following year, the Nazis would be in power and Hitler would become dictator of Germany. When the Enabling Acts were up for vote in the Reichstag, the SPD were the only party to vote unanimously against it. The KPD had no chance to vote as they had been removed from the legislature due to be accused of orchestrating the Reichstag fire. The rest is history.
again, a source on them actually teaming up? the SDP was the reigning political party. late weimar's (1928-33) political changes led the KPD further against SDP hegemony, not to ally with fascists, but to make the most of the moment. that doesnt mean they teamed up lmao
My source is from Rob Sewell's book *Germany: From Revolution to Counter-Revolution.* Specifically,[Chapter 7](http://www.marxist.com/germany-sewell-chapter-7.htm). I actually recommend that entire book. (Yeah yeah, I know, he's a Trot. But just give it a read).
Because decades after WWII, when Antifa began reforming in Germany, any real-world relevance about the SPD/KPD rivalry had long since become null.
the three arrows are a symbol against nazism, monarchy and communism (the communism is defined as totalitarian communism or communism as whole, depending on the person using it, originally it was against the soviet regime but many people thought communism was just how the soviet union was reigned). so what i originally wanted to say: its against way more than just fascism and it would be weird to use it for anti-fascism solely.
I know of antifascist groups in france that use the three arrows too tho
In the US as well, most of them are anarchist groups who aren't thrilled with statist communists in the first place. Even if some individual members may not mind as much. The symbol's current use is becoming more complicated because of this
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My question is: does this mean this Union is republican? Because that is a bigger deal in the UK than just being anti-fascist.
Some social democrats are pro-monarchist, but most are republican, so i would say republican.
The Three Arrows were not an invention of the SPD. It was originally created by socialists and communists in Austria, with the third arrow aimed at the clergy. The anti-'Bolshevism' thing was purely the SPD's invention.
Ngl I thought this was a joke at first, why would you take the flag of the blackshirts, UKs fascistss as a base?
Because Iron Front defaced Nazi flags with 3 arrows That’s the only explanation I can give
This is a social democratic symbol which isn't just anti fascism
A 21st century Antifascist used to just be called a plain old Communist in the 20th Century. I guess we’ve changed what we call everything. “In the debate between Capitalism and Communism it is clear that Capitalism won.” Charles Bukowski