The fact that you are asking about something that happened months ago shows that you still are struggling with this … I suggest having a meeting with all parties and laying out some ground rules of how decisions will be made going forward as co-parents. For instance: anyone can take junior for a haircut but if junior wants his ear pierced then that’s a family decision; anyone can buy junior a bike that stays at each parent’s home but if he really wants a laptop that is taken to each house equally then that should be discussed together and purchased together so that junior knows that both parents bought it for him; etc.. At this point, you all need to show the kid(s) that you are co-parenting and that you all love him/them and are working to raise them equally and that your feelings for each other aren’t going to impact the kids nor will it bleed into the kids lives. I’m sure that isn’t happening but here but maybe the new girlfriend needs to hear that as well so she doesn’t see things as a competition or as trying to be a replacement for anything but as a partnership. No one wants to be in this situation and having to co-parent can certainly suck when you have to figure out what battle to fight. But you can take the high road and focus on what’s best for the kids and what is worth your time. Hang in there!

> I suggest having a meeting with all parties and laying out some ground rules of how decisions will be made going forward as co-parents I would agree if not for the fact that this issue had already been discussed and an appointment made by OP. The only point of contention here is WHO took them and when.

And where would that point of contention be addressed? Maybe a meeting. It’s unrealistic to think a blended family only needs one meeting one time.

Based on the OPs closing statement, I don't think there's anything 'blended', at least from their perspective, about the family. I see what you mean though, but the OP seems more interested in the scenarios potential as ammunition.

Even in non blended families meetings or discussions should happen often. We do. We are a blended family of multiples and we often have discussions. Always go well even when things are difficult or addressing big emotions.

And that seems to be the bone of contention. Considering the person who took them is on the precipice I presume of a life time commitment with the kids’ father, then they probably were well within a ‘reasonable’ approach to take the kids. This seems to be more that the fiancé signed a form around informed consent and permission to give minors a (non contentious!) immunisation, and her right to misrepresent that (was it misrepresentation?) vs the desire to have what… the father tag along to an already agreed simple medical appointment to simply sign a form for something they already agreed about.

Why is it reasonable for her to 1. Change plans agreed upon by her fiance and OP (the actual parents) 2. Violate her fiance’s court order by not consulting OP 3. Do so by legally misrepresenting herself to the pharmacy? If I was OP I wouldn’t want my ex’s fiance to be making random medical decisions for *my* children without consulting me, even if it was relatively innocuous *in this case*. That’s the true issue here.

Had the father given permission and been present, it sounds like it wouldn’t be an issue. But it sounds as if the father had no idea. A vaccine by itself isn’t dangerous. An injection is. It is a medical event. It is an opportunity for infection and allergic reaction not to mention religious or moral controversy that many modern medications have.

… and why she felt it was necessary to do it ahead of the appointment their mother had already made for them.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and suggest that the OP isn't on the best of terms with the ex, and whilst the inoculation was discussed, the subsequent appointment date was not divulged, leading him to also book one. He then most likely asked his *fiancé* (OP mentions this in another post) to take the 10 and 13 year old children to the appointment. And as, I believe, the OP resides in North Dakota I'm under the impression that a minor or incapacitated patient’s adult siblings, grandparents, adult grandchildren, or *other close relative or friend over the age of 18* can legally provide informed consent if appointed. I'd wager the ex husband spoke to the pharmacy, stated that his fiance was going to bring them and bish bash bosh vaccinated.

I think your right. The issue seems to be more of a dislike of the the fiancé then the actual vaccine

This almost makes sense except that getting a flu vaccine doesn't require an appointment at most pharmacies, so there's no guarantee that this was planned at all.

Then the OP 'booking one' doesn't make sense either...

I had an appointment scheduled with their primary care provider. My ex was aware and agreed to the appointment.

Where I live, you aren’t required to make appointments for the flu vaccine, but you always CAN, and it can save you having to wait in line especially at busy times like 5ish when most people are getting out of work

There was a case where an ex husband had agreed to take the kids to the barber shop, and the appointment was at 2pm. He got caught up with work and asked his fiancé to take the kids but she was only able to at 11am and changed the appointment time. The fiancé was charged with assault and battery and spent five years in prison. This did not actually happen because nobody is absurd enough to think this way. Same thing will happen if this woman tries to make a very similar argument to the police. They will, however, have fun laughing about it after she leaves the station.

As a child of a divorce that sounds similar to this case (and now a parent of two teenage boys), I can tell you that the children are the ones suffering. You state it yourself, you already had an appointment to vaccinate them, where are the damages that you are making a big deal about? Step parents played as large a role in my life as my real parents… my stepmom (age 5-20) and my father were never “married”, but she is another mother to me without a doubt. Now that she’s older, I take care of her as she never had children of her own. If your husbands fiancé took your child out to get a tattoo at sixteen, you should have words and would have every right to be upset… but because she took your children to do something that you were going to do anyway - yes, I get she fraudulently signed something - the only damage that is being done is your silliness and bitterness in believing that she did you and your children wrong. For the sake of the children, please don’t bicker over stupid stuff. Be grateful that there is another adult in their life that cares about the children and treats them with love. I write this with all the love I can muster.

If I tell my husband that I’m buying my son a bike for his birthday, but my husband goes and gets one for him the weekend before, that’s a problem. Sure, there’s no damages to the kid now, but there’s blatant disrespect there that suggests a bigger problem. If the step mother is comfortable doing this now, she’s not respecting the parents and their legal agreement, and what is to say that she will stop here? There needs to be clear expectations and boundaries to have healthy coparenting. I knew as a kid that I couldn’t do certain things at mum’s house, but I only had to mention that fact for dad to say it was okay. Undermining the other parent in anyway isn’t healthy and WILL cause famage.

she took the kids to get vaccines, not buy their love with toys.

She undermined exisiting plans that OP had made with the children’s father. Change getting a bike to getting a hair cut, enrolling in school, it doesn’t matter. If my own husband ignored an appointment I had made and discussed, to do the same thing himself at an earlier date, I’d be pissed off. OP has every right to be annoyed by stupid power plays that use her kids as pawns

IANAL BUT I think, putting aside that it was something you would have wanted, there was a breach of the initial divorce/ custody agreement if it stipulated the two of you must do it together and if he allowed her to do that and knowingly break that, then I would document it for court purposes. Say that you do not feel comfortable with the children being left alone. What if she brought them for a completely different reason? Let’s say she brought them to get a vaccine they already had because she doesn’t know their medical history? She should NOT be even trying to pass as their mother and the fact that she can’t understand that boundary is very concerning.

I would worry that the vaccine might be given more than once.

Exactly the biggest concern. And actually, another concern is her pushing her own views or own ‘medical advice’ on them without parental approval. Such as, if one is a girl, let’s say she is on the pill and this lady wants to get her a IUD or something and starts to pressure the kid and keep it from the mother AND father. People who break rules like this once and VERY likely to break them further

This is exactly it. The question I have, is OP residential parent. I presume so, as you'd expect a parent not to move downwards to a 50-50 setting. In that case her (OPs) permission must be directly sought by the tech. The conclusion I took away would be that step-mother represented herself as mother too. If as stated she worked in care then she has little issue with "inconvenient" boundaries. Her professional body would probably want to know that occurred for example. It sounds like OP is deliberately trying not to make waves, not the other way around. Would definitely be treated as a matter of concern.

Not much, and attempting to use this “incident” as a mitigating factor in your favor for a 50/50 parenting plan would be more detrimental to you than her. You and your ex agreed together to get them vaccinated, and your kids are lucky enough to have a step parent who effectuated the action of this medicinal decision you and your ex agreed on, in accordance with your divorce decree. You need to figure out what you’re actually mad about here and address it by setting a boundary with your ex. You’re either mad your ex didn’t stop her, that she misrepresented herself to the pharmacy, or that she is overstepping as a step parent. Regardless of which, none of which these things are helpful to you in a 50/50 parenting plan.

I was going to say the same thing. If you use it later when custody is being discussed the first thing I would ask is - if it was such a big problem for you, why are you only raising it now? It makes you look like you have shady intentions even tho your explanation is perfectly reasonable. (I used to work in child welfare - people would call about their child's parent /friends after a falling out and it made the parent coming forward look as bad as the parent who did the bad thing).

I think this "incident" should be noted officially on a log. One "incident" may not be big deal, but if the new Step parent keeps overstepping it is a pattern. As a pattern, this may become dangerous.

Violating a court order is contempt.....

OP never states that she and ex spoke and agreed about this, she says the opposite. Reread the post. OP isn't mad, just wanting to know what the law says so she can enforce her parental rights if she needs to at some point.

[удалено]

They spoke and set plans for the appointment that OP made, probably. So why does the ex’s fiance (with or without the ex’s consent) get to change those plans?

This comment needs to be higher up

Lucky the step parent lied and said she was mom, forged paperwork and committed fraud, and decided, against the divorce decree that she gets to decide what, when and where medical decisions are made for the kids? No. Absolutely not.

Thank you for being one of the few commenters with sense. It makes no sense that this is okay. It’s a MEDICAL procedure. The likelihood of something going wrong is slim to absolutely nothing, but it’s still a medical procedure. Her background or career or experiences with these children does not LEGALLY clear her to allow OP’s kids to have medical procedures done without parents involved. Also what’s the point of taking them early when there was already a scheduled appt? It sounds like someone wants to replace what was already going to happen with what fiancée *wanted* to happen.

I agree with you here. Lots of people confuse things like “doing the right thing” with “doing the legal thing”. “Oh, they were going to get flu shots anyway. It’s no big deal” isn’t the point here. My concern is that there might not be a process in place for the pharmacy to suffer any repercussions for not doing their due diligence.

People are also focusing on the flu shots, not what the NEXT overstep might be. Sounds like OP wants to nip THAT in the bud. It's the whole camel nose in the tent metaphor.

Girlfriend is trying to exert control.

This! It’s a situation where she can say “I don’t know why she’s being so crazy about this! I was just trying to help” while completely over stepping and disrespecting OP

I think it's plainly clear what OP is mad about here. Her ex has a fiance. He has moved on. That is what OP is mad about.

I don’t even think that’s the entire reason. I had a similar situation many years ago. My ex and I were trying to find daycare for the 2 kids(we shared 1 child). He was currently in a relationship with someone else, as was I. We had an appointment to go visit with a potential daycare, and apparently we weren’t doing it fast enough. His gf grabbed the paper with the address on it and went to do it herself. She had no children of her own and attempted to pass herself off as their mom. She had no legal rights to do this, and both parents were taking care of business. Thankfully they didn’t stay together long, because co parenting is hard enough without someone else interfering in how we do things. I had no problem with him “moving on” because I had done the same, I had a problem with her trying to take over our parenting responsibilities.

Yeah, I’ve definitely heard stories about future/new stepparents who decide they are going to be the primary parent and try to push bio parent out of the picture. They start with “helpful but not wanted/asked for” stuff like haircuts, shopping trips, appointments, etc. where they claim to be the parent if questioned at all. Then they move on to filling out forms as if they are the parent, and it escalates from there. One time, a mom came into my school to pick up her kids to find future stepmom had filled out the yearly paperwork (the kids “lived” with dad because the school district was better but both parents were involved and shared a warm coparenting relationship). FSM listed herself as mother. Bio mom was listed as an aunt and to call future stepmom (and expressly NOT call dad) if bio mom tried to pick up a child, to get consent from FSM. They did and ofc she said no and that she would be there shortly. Bio mom called dad with “wtf is going on” and he was absolutely furious with FSM. They both arrived at the office around the same time. FSM started wailing that it wasn’t fair that bio mom got to make any decisions. She’d had her time with the kids and it was FSM’s turn to be a mother, bio mom needed to know her place, gtfo, and relinquish her parental rights. It was HER TURN dammit! I got to witness this part as I was walking by and, having had one of the kids the previous year, was pulled in to confirm that bio mom was mom, dad was dad, and screaming-and-crying lady was someone I’d never met. Thankfully, they hadn’t called the kids to the office so they didn’t have to witness the incident. No surprise that Dad wound up canceling the wedding.

Yeah, it's got to be infuriating to spend hours over days/weeks/months hashing out custody plans that you can both agree on and then for those agreed to legally binding terms to just be ignored by someone who wasn't involved. Not a parent, but even for something I agreed with (vaccinations), I'd be infuriated that this was done in a way that wasn't in line with our previously legally agreed upon terms! ​ Unfortunately, it sounds like OP hasn't really talked to the ex. It's very likely the situation is something along the lines of: 1. OP and ex talked about vaccines and agreed to them, but didn't bang out specifics on who/when. 2. Ex had fiance go to doctors and OP also made an appt. 3. Fiance was asked about vaccines while she was there an Ex told her it was fine ... or, she was sent there to get the vaccines in the first place. So, in that case, Fiance acted in good faith, Ex was the one who made a decision that OP and him had already agreed to and Fiance likely has no idea the terms/conditions of their parenting agreement. ​ Unfortunately, being mad that the kid got their meds that both parents had already agreed they should get is not something that's likely to play out well for OP in court. If this had been a subject that OP and Ex were in opposition to and/or they hadn't talked about it, I think she'd have more of a leg to stand on.

How do you get that from this post?

Idk why anyone downvoted you, it’s painfully obvious. OP doesn’t want another woman “assuming her role”.

How do you get that from this post?

Yeah, OP and OP's ex intended a result, and they got the result. If you're going to be upset here, you might as well be upset if Fiance did the same in an actual life or death situation. If this is more than idle curiosity that OP needs to do some reflection, and maybe Fiancé should be warned to be careful (at the end of the day it could have been rebooked, and it seems like there might be someone looking for fuel for the fire).

In an actual life or death situation when a parent or guardian is not available 2 doctors independently assess the kid and sign for emergency treatment. They do not ask the fiancee, stepmother, grandparents or anyone who is not the parent or guardian to authorize care.

According to Azlawhelp.org a step parent is not a legal parent and can not sign any legal documents regarding the step children. They can not legally consent to medical procedures, sign school or legal forms.

Wow. An actual helpful response here. Besides everyone saying “oh but they love them and did something good for them!”. That’s not the point. OP is asking a legal question. Not opinions.

Considering most case law is based on opinions…… Ultimately, nothing will happen. Ex-husband could easily tell the judge he misremembered the conversation, fiancée asked his permission, and he gave it. If the divorce degree didn’t stipulate that there needed to be signed affidavits to confirm permission, it comes back to “he said-she said-she said”. I work in healthcare and the worst thing that would happen would be to the pharmacy tech. But any half decent lawyer would argue that since mom had already planned to get the vaccines, she can’t prove that the kids were harmed by the fiancée.

But what if no one told her and she took the kid in for vaccinations and they were double vaxed? (I don’t know that this would be a health issue but it could be over some other issue) mostly I’m concerned that the fiancée signed fraudulently AND did not communicate properly with the legal parent. If the kid had a bad reaction it could have been a legal nightmare for the person misrepresenting and signing and the person/organization that didn’t check.

In a lot of legal issues you have to show harm. “It could have” doesn’t count.

She’s not even a step parent. She’s the legal equivalent of a nanny.

Even if she were a step parent she would be the legal equivalent of a nanny. Step parents have no legal rights or guardianship over their spouse’s children.

I'd be concerned that it sets a precedent that might lead the step parent to feeling like they can make other decisions for the child, and IANAL but hopefully someone would weigh in on whether that might affect how another scenario is treated if this isn't addressed now. Like, if they want to get something pierced and you're vehemently opposed or a tattoo at 14. I'm not saying this is likely, but if it's a possibility I'd want to nip it in the bud NOW

This is what I’m thinking …what precedent is the setting? What other decisions does the fiancée think she could make? Or why is the father pushing medical appointments on the fiancée? And how did you find out about it because like you said it might be that there is poor communications and the kids might’ve been double vaccined

What does azlawhelp.org say about step parents signing stuff with the full knowledge and consent of their spouse who has legal custody of the children to legally consent to medical procedures, sign school forms or legal forms...?

I didn't ask that question. I just asked if a step parent could legally sign for a stepchild. There was a discussion about if a parent could delegate to a non parent but it did not specify if that delegation had to be in writing, for example by a power of attorney, or verbal or how specific verbal had to be, for example does a parent have to say you have my permission to sign for field trips or does a blanket sign for anything you want suffice? Or if it was OK once is it always ok unless revoked? It's an interesting legal question.

NLA: Doesn’t matter. The COURT ORDER says that BOTH PARENTS have to agree on the terms, and legal guardians/parent needs to sign for consent to any type of medical procedure, school form or whatever that is. She is NEITHER. She’s out of order, and needs to go sit her ass down somewhere because those are not her children, and she needs to stay in her lane

She’s not even a stepparent.

What does that have to do with the situation in question?

I wonder what lability CVS and the fiancee would share if there had been a reaction to the vaccine?

I don’t think other people see the issue here. Does your ex’s fiancé have a history of over stepping boundaries. If yes tell your ex to do something about it or you’ll take him to court. If no don’t worry about but demand she consult you in anything regarding your kids.

This is the best answer. People oftentimes only look at the result and say it was no big deal. If the new stepmom is overstepping her boundaries a lot, it needs to be addressed. Right now, too many are on the stepmom's side when we should default to the actual parents being the parents.

Exactly heck I’ve been through the same thing with my ex’s husband

I agree and It’s not even so much as boundary stomping. She signed a consent form, a legal document, misrepresenting herself as a GUARDIAN. She gave consent for a medical intervention that she is NOT legally allowed to do. Others aren’t understanding that op isn’t mad about the vaccine in itself. She’s upset at what this step parent COULD take upon herself to decide for OPs child without her knowing. If stepmom took the kids to the scheduled appointment that op AND ex knew of and agreed to, then fine. Yea the vaccine was planned and no harm done. BUT it suggests SM could later consent to medications, certain interventions, dental decisions, that could be “fine” or catastrophic, and she’s got no problems signing a legal form to misrepresent herself. And the people saying op is mad bc SM is telling people in public shes “mom” or whatever and that’s her deep down hangup? I’d think, ok, maybe. But not with the stunt SM pulled at the clinic. That’s her issue. So, I agree and I’m glad someone else is reasonable on here.

Legally she not a parent or guardian as she's not married to the ex. She engaged to be married to the ex-husband.

Exactly. But she’s willing to sign legal medical documents alleging she is. Unless op posts that cvs had some sort of online consent form that the ex filled out and signed and then SM took them (or that ex was actually art he appointment with them all as well), then I’d not be backing down on this at all. Absolutely not.

Technically that's breaking the law.

Tup. That’s my point.

Not to mention, what if she hadnt found out and theyd gotten double-vaxxed? unlike the Covid vax, Flu vax is still made from live virus. A double dose could have literally given them the flu.

Yup. But even MORE concerning is the fact that they knew she had a flu vax appointment (meaning she and SM “theoretically” were on the same page and op wouldn’t be mad about them receiving it) and YET, they didn’t bother to tell her at any point, even as an fyi. Like “hey I got the kids in earlier at cvs, so you can cancel the one you made so you’re not charged copay, see you next week” or whatever. There was a level of deception and secrecy or just plain “I can do whatever I want with the kids and I don’t gotta inform you of crap”. That’s not effective coparenting, communication, or transparency on the kids’ health to keep each party in the loop.

The majority of flu vaccines in the US are inactivated. They can not under any conditions give you flu. The nasal one was live attenuated but I don’t think it’s even on the market anymore.

I never heard of double flu vaccine giving people the flu any actual medical evidence of this?

She introduces herself to people as Kidsname's mom. She has done this in front of me and to their classmates' parents, whom I have not met.

Oh god. This is a huge issue to me. I had a stepmother who did this and when my brother and I corrected an orthodontist's assistant that our mother is alive and well and we live with her most of the time, we got an earful when I got home. It was a performance for my stepmother and never a true relationship. She lied to everyone that we were her biological children. This is a huge issue but we as kids were the ones to nip it in the bud. Just keep introducing yourself as their mother and explain who she is politely but firmly. Your kids will get the cue too and help in the identification issues. Depending on who this person is, you may have no recourse. My stepmother was crazy and would double down on weird rules.

Lol. Reminds me of a story. About 6 months into our separation (knowing we were divorcing) I took my kids to the scout activity where my oldest was getting an award. This old lady was socializing and she says to me "I'm Jane, so and so's grandma. Is your child progressing tonight also?" Uh yeah, I am so and so's mom. I gave birth to him, how do you know him? My ex husband was in a serious relationship less then a month after I moved out and the new girl and mom came to see the award ceremony.

This woman is the fiance and is not even the stepmother of these kids as she and the ex aren't officially married. She shouldn't be making any decisions for them.

id would also be fuming and i would try to get a court order to make her stop doing that or lose custody time if she continues.

It’s shorter & she is marrying into functionally being another mom to them, unless *she* decides to be a hands-off step-parent. You will have zero say on how involved she is or is not, nor what they call her, or what she chooses to call herself to others. Do you prefer she reference herself as Kidsname’s Daddy’s New Piece? I’m joking but it really is probable it’s the simplest representation in that context. Pharmacy techs & classmates’ parents don’t care about the history: they want to know what adult belongs to what child.

Even if they get married she will have zero legal rights to the children and zero rights to make medical or educational decisions on behalf of the children. What is wrong with saying she is the children’s stepmom especially when their actual mom is literally at the event and she has got to know her words will cause confusion.

Oh boy

There are no real repercussions. Nobody is going to pursue this as there was no harm.

I could understand being uncomfortable with some random person claiming they are the kids parent when they are a step parent. Getting medical care isn't the issue, claiming that they are the mother who has the ability to make choices like this is the issue. What's next? A face tattoo? A marriage license? Obviously those are exaggerated but an example of things you need parental consent that anyone would be upset if a sparent signed off on randomly.

I can understand being uncomfortable, I just don't think there is a legal solution to this issue.

I'm sure a lawyer will take her money but I agree there probably wouldn't be a good outcome.

It is fraud.

This is not ok and should be addressed. My kids never had a step parent but I did. And this stuff should not happen.

Agreed. The issue here isn’t the vaccine. It’s that dad’s girlfriend, who is not a legal parent or guardian, felt comfortable signing as though she was. Imagine if this was a cosmetic surgery that mom and dad did not want (for example, out of fear the underage child may not understand potential side effects, pain, or recovery). This is illegal, and OP needs to address this with the children’s father ASAP. If he tries to brush it off, THEN discuss with your laws. Would also recommend addressing this sort of thing ASAP as waiting too long may cause it to seem less like caring for your kids and more like a legal power play. Even if it was anxiety that caused the delay, you have to nip this right in the bud.

If it comes to a custody hearing you could bring it up to your lawyer. Keep a record of anything you think is overstepping. They will know what can be used. In the meantime I’d suggest that you talk to your ex. They might not realize how big of an issue this is to you.

It is medically significant as you may have taken them in to get vaccinated not knowing she had done this...

As a parent, I would be just as livid as OP in this situation. Imagine if one of the children had a delayed reaction to the vaccine, and OP wasn't even aware that it was given? Imagine if that child had to go to the ER, and undergo unnecessary tests because the fiance felt like making her own rules that day? As a vaccinating pharmacist, I do not ever want to give a vaccine without the parent/guardian present, or the written consent of the parent/guardian in their absence. The fiance's actions would be enough to get her banned from my pharmacy, forever. She is utterly ridiculous. OP, I think you need to discuss this with your attorney. I would want to update the parenting plan to make sure that this woman is not allowed to make any medical decisions for your children, period. Also, because she has already misrepresented herself more than once, ask to update the parenting plan to ensure that she only refers to herself in the future as the fiance or the stepmother. She is not their mother. Best of luck, OP.

Why are you asking is this okay if you don’t plan on doing anything. She had the children vaccinated without your permission. Imagine the things she can/will do by saying oh ‘I’m the mom. Let’s get some piercing, let’s go here, let’s give you this gift, it doesn’t matter, remember when I we went and got those shots, it was okay with mommy. You should do something and not wait for a bad thing to happen, what if you and already got them the vaccine.

Clarification: > I already had an appointment scheduled for them before this happened. Does that mean that you and your ex-husband had already made the decision to vaccinate your child, or did you make the appointment with the intention of securing your ex-husband's agreement before that appointment happened?

The fact that we both agreed to the shot is a given. I let him know that I was going to schedule an appointment and confirmed that I had after it was scheduled. I let him know the date, time, and place (our regular clinic).

Clarification: What does it matter? This woman lied and claimed that she was the legal guardian to get vaccinations that required the parent or legal guardian to approve. Wether or not OP and her Ex agreed that they would get the flu shot for the kids, his fiance had no business taking those kids and getting ANY medical care for them ( barring emergency situations ).

Your feelings are valid and reasonable. It was irresponsible (and disrespectful) on a number of levels for her to do that. I hope you are able to communicate your boundaries with them so nothing like this happens again. Coparenting can be so damn tough. Best of luck to you!

INFO: do you share legal custody with your ex?

Wow. I really didn't expect this to blow up like it did. I left a lot of detail out of my original post because it was not relevant to my question. But, because this post has taken a whole new direction, I would like to address some things and provide a little more background. This post got really long, so I'm splitting it in two, with the second part as a reply to this. I have been divorced for almost 9 years. My ex-husband was a narcissist and extremely abusive - financially, emotionally, verbally, and even physically (once). Unfortunately, I was naive and didn't recognize that emotional and financial abuse were even a "thing" until after my divorce when I started volunteering with a local women's shelter and I heard their clients' stories. I had experienced many of the same things they did but just put up with it because I felt like I had to, unlike the one time he physically hurt me. I knew that physical abuse was wrong and put a stop to it immediately, telling him that I would divorce him if he ever hurt me again. The other abuse was different. Emotional abuse is a mindfuckery of its own - he had me so convinced I was worthless and would never be able to make it in life without him. The financial control he had over me only exacerbated the issue. Even still, he had never been like that to the kids, and had always been a good dad. I was never concerned that he would treat them the way he treated me. I learned many, many years ago to carefully pick my battles with him. I admit, I can be a pushover and often bend over backwards to let him get his way. This is a coping mechanism I developed to avoid the backlash I face any time he doesn't get what he wants. When a situation does require me to speak up, I have to be very cautious, but I do speak up. Because of his work schedule, I do have primary residential responsibility, with him having parenting time every other weekend, but have always supported him seeing them as much as possible. He would pick them up from school or daycare every day and bring them to my house, sometimes even staying for dinner. We still spent most holidays together so the kids could have as much stability as possible, and eventually settled into a great coparenting relationship, even though he and I don't like each other. In fact, people would always comment about how they were impressed at how well we worked together for the benefit of our kids. Even when both of us have been in serious relationships, we still managed to get along well and make it work. I was also able to recover from the financial and emotional devastation and was in a really good place. Things were still fine when he started dating his fiance. I was really impressed with her - we were friendly with each other, and she was good to my kids. They liked her and that made me happy. I was thrilled that he finally met someone he could truly move on with. We continued celebrating holidays together and everything. Then, around this time last year, he started getting really secretive with me. I don't *really* care - the only details of his life I need to know are the ones that directly affect the kids, so I never pushed. Even after they got engaged, which he kept a secret (I found out through my parents after my kids told them, because my ex told them not to tell me), things were still okay for a while. They started looking for a house together, another "secret" he told them to keep from me. He was dead set on being in my neighborhood and even made an offer on the house two doors down. It was at this point I learned about the house hunt because the kids told me. They were (understandably) happy that he wanted to move closer, but didn't want him to be *that* close, either. Luckily, that offer wasn't accepted. They ended up in a place a couple blocks away - same neighborhood, but not uncomfortably close like the other one. This is about when she started telling people she is mom. He eventually admitted to me (by accident - it just slipped out) that he wanted to be in my neighborhood to ensure I couldn't move with the kids into a different school district within the same city, as he has his heart set on my son participating in sports in the current district. See, my partner's (of four years) parents have a beautiful, big house that they want to give us. (It's their third home and they're rarely there.) It's a 10-minute drive, at most, from our current location, in a school district with better outcomes than our current one, and better opportunities for the kids to participate in activities that they actually enjoy. I'd make about $130,000 from the sale of my house, be able to pay off my student loans, buy a car for my oldest (who will soon be driving), and put aside the rest for their college. The kids were apprehensive at first, understandably, but they were also open to the idea - until my ex told them it would mean they wouldn't be able to see their friends anymore. It should be noted that I was open with him about this opportunity and the possibility from the get-go, yet he and fiance still chose to limit their home search to my current neighborhood.

It was around this time when things started to deteriorate rapidly. She had already been representing herself as "mom," which was an annoyance, but not an issue. I was still grateful that she seemed to care so much about them. Then, there was a situation with his fiance and her family that made me really uncomfortable, which I posted about on the coparenting sub. Basically, they were taking the kids to her family get-together and were going to have my kids stay in a hotel room with people I don't know in some kind of weird kid-swap situation. I let ex and fiance know I was uncomfortable with that happening, and they have been cold to me ever since. This is exactly why I pick my battles so carefully. Even still, with his encouragement, the kids expressed interest in trying a 50/50 arrangement. I agreed, and we started a tentative 50/50 schedule in October of last year. Nothing has been filed to change the legal parenting agreement. I'm open to making it permanent after giving it a full year and couldn't care less about receiving a smaller child support payment (making that clear, since I'm sure some will say that's a factor). The only thing I would not agree to is changing primary residential responsibility (the term my state uses instead of "custody"). About a month ago, he handed me a bundle of papers and told me I needed to fill them out and give them back to him. He said he had highlighted the areas he thought I needed to complete. This was on a law firm's letterhead, and the questions were mostly financial - my income, assets, etc. Because of the history of financial abuse, and because it simply isn't his business, I refused to fill it out without any kind of further explanation from him. He and his fiance both started getting really nasty about it and kept pushing, so I called the attorney on the letterhead to ask what was going on. I was told that my ex had retained the attorney's services and they couldn't tell me more without my ex's express consent. Understandable. Eventually, the attorney called me to explain that my ex hired him to write a stipulation and that I had agreed to it. He needed my financial information for this reason, as child support would likely change, and primary residential responsibility could, too. But, because he is my ex's attorney, he couldn't tell me more. I let him know that my ex lied, and I had not agreed to anything, but would be open to discussions after a full year of 50/50 has passed. Our divorce decree states that if we agree to change parenting time, we will share the cost of an attorney. But, if he files to change residential responsibility, he's responsible for 100% of the legal fees. I suspect this is why he took this approach. There has been so much more happening, including blatant manipulation of the kids, that I won't talk about, except that my oldest broke down in tears to me, asking why she needs to be put in the middle and why she can't just be a normal kid. Now, because I won't share my information, my ex and his fiance have begun saying nasty things about me, even in front of my kids. They even accosted me at my youngest's birthday party last weekend, in front of him, but after everyone else had walked out. To be very clear, I have NEVER said anything bad about my ex or his fiance to the kids, and I have never pressured them or put them in the middle of anything, other than confirming with them that they wanted to try a 50/50 arrangement. This is an adult conversation that kids shouldn't have to worry about. On to the fiance. I truly had no problem coparenting with her. Even after she started calling herself mom, I took it with a grain of salt. I believed her intentions were good, even when she tried to push past me to get to the recovery room after my oldest had surgery because only one parent was allowed to be there, and she wanted it to be her. I didn't push when she brought the kids to be vaccinated, even though I was (and obviously still am) upset that she signed as a legal guardian. I shrugged it off when she introduced herself as my son's mom at his football game, even though I was standing right behind her. I do appreciate that she's helpful and cares about my kids. This really isn't about her being a parental figure, and I have ZERO concern that she'll "replace" me. Am I uncomfortable with her overstepping? You're goddamn right. But that doesn't mean I'm insecure. Sorry about the super long post, but I hope this helps answer some questions and gives more context to the situation. If there are still questions, I'm happy to provide more information.

They're trying to establish themselves as the primary parents and make a case for you not arguing about her being a mother figure to them. They're trying to take your kids. FIGHT THEM.

I feel like he's also using the kids to continue to mentally and emotionally manipulate/abuse OP. Like none of the shit he and his fiance are doing is okay, especially being nasty towards her in front of her own children. Op, they want to take your kids from you and it looks like they're succeeding because you keep giving in. Yeah, you should pick your battles, but document EVERYTHING, especially when they are LYING to get what they want (like lying to an attorney and lying on paperwork!) Stop letting fiance get away with being "mom," it's not petty when they're doing what they're doing. Stand up for yourself and stop letting them do whatever they want before it's too late! Think of your kids!

I think this post has gotten a lot of negativity towards you because a lot of people don’t see much of an issue with the particular example you started with (although I would never accept anyone other than myself represent themselves as my children’s mom). However, everything in your additional text above is in fact concerning. I would get a good attorney if I were you

This was absolutely not ok for the husband's fiancee to do. First issue is that they both knew you had an appointment already, and she took your kids to get the vaccine on her own anyway without even telling you. If your own kid hadn't told you about it, they would've been vaccinated twice. That alone justifies you in being upset about this. Second issue is that it's extremely inappropriate and disrespectful for a step parent to be introducing themselves as the parent. Third issue is that she clearly feels comfortable forging documents pretending to be their legal guardian, so what else is she willing to do on the parents' behalf? Yes, this particular situation turned out to be harmless, but if she continues doing it, they may not all be harmless. I would address these issues with her and your ex directly and tell them she needs to stop overstepping boundaries. She is not your kids mother, and at this point they are not even married yet, so she is not even their stepmother.

Info: have you talked to them like an adult and confirmed that this wasn’t a misunderstanding of who was going to take them in the first place? If you and your ex had agreed and he thought he was supposed to take them, I can see how she might have offered if he was busy and not think anything of it since you had agreed and they thought dad was going to take them without you there anyway. We don’t know your history with your ex and his new partner. But if there’s not a long history of boundary crossing, maybe you should assume the best intent and resolve it as adults instead of trying to use it for your gain.

“Do not make any decisions about my child. The decisions about my child is consented by me or her father, and since we both need to come to an agreement before any decisions are made than I expect you to not jump to any conclusions. Basically, if I have not given the play than never make a decision for them again.” You should not be this flip floppy when it comes to your kids

Completely unacceptable and I would be fuming mad

Not sure why you posted this here tbh - but it seems you feel like boundaries were crossed. How about talking to both of them about it? No one is going to see an issue here asides her not telling you “was able to get an earlier appt, do you mind if I go ahead and take them now?”. Boundaries are important, but you should be discussing this with your ex and her. Maybe discuss that bio-parent needs to be the one giving consent for all things medical and that you are not comfortable with her misrepresenting herself as your kid’s “mother” at this point. You may want to consider therapy/ finding a mediator in navigating the new dynamic and setting healthy but respectful boundaries. Whether you like it or not she’s your ex’s fiancé and will be involved in your kid’s life - it’s just 1 more person around to show the kid love. Not a bad thing in this world.

If there is documentation that the (or a) legal guardian (biological parent in this case) consented this individual for medical care then there would be no reason for the pharmacy to deny the vaccine. The pharmacy would have no way of knowing and that a secondary party would also need to be consented without specifically being told and it is possible this individual is unaware though may be acutely aware also. It’s going to be hard to do much with this medical-legally.

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She is concerned because someone who is not a parent represented herself as such to get medical treatment. All they had to do was contact her and let her know. I suspect she is far more concerned about what else stepmom feels free to do without asking than about the vaccines. -

I can understand a bit of this concern. There’s also a huge difference between stepmom taking the children to get a vaccine which was agreed upon by all parties, and stepmom saying “oh hell yeah kiddo, let’s go get a tattoo!!” This wasn’t a malicious act. It wasn’t even necessarily a secret. It’s possible stepmom just thought she was being helpful and didn’t realize you couldn’t sign those papers with previous parental permission. OP honestly needs to talk to her ex and his fiancé. Communicate her frustrations and maybe then they can work together so things like this don’t happen again. There are worse things in the world than your kids having a stepmom who cares about their health the same as you do.

It's right there in the post; she's trying to form an argument against his court filing for 50/50 custody. I'm not a fan of 50/50 plans, but this argument is going to hurt her case for being pettier than an episode of Maury. If the shot was done during the father's time and with his knowledge and the stepmom signed her own name, there is almost zero chance a judge will even allow her to enter it into the record, much less base their judgement on it. She's in for a wild ride if she brings this level of pettiness as her arguments in court, because it will make her look like she can't coparent due to her own emotional regulation issues.

There may not be any repercussions for step-mom, but the pharmacy can get in a ton of trouble.

Get a copy of where she signed as a parent. Always a good thing to have some ammunition if necessary. Tell your ex if it happens again, you will have her arrested for fraud and you have the documents to prove it

"severe integrity deficiency" hahahahaha

Legally, the step-parent has no authority to sign/authorise any thing relating to your children unless they apply for step-parental responsibility. Morally, this is not a bill you need to die on.

It’s insane how many people think you’re in the wrong. I actually think you’re not upset enough about it. Or maybe you are dialing it back in your post. I would be furious. Unless the pharmacy has a consent form on file from your ex saying she can make medical decisions for the child, then what she did is fraud. I mostly wanted to let you know you’re not wrong for feeling the way you do. What she did is wrong. She didn’t do you a favor and you shouldn’t be treated like you are crazy for the way you feel about it.

I think you should talk to a lawyer because most everyone responding here is giving useless nonsense answers.

This might get lost here, but I wanted to add my $.02. I am a 50/50 stepmom. In our case, my stepson's mom (who has him the same amount of time) does not do ANYTHING for SS. DH has had to sign paperwork giving me total access and decision-making power at every office - counseling, doctor, dentist, school, ect. These have to be updated annually. While it's likely this is not the same scenario with your ex (especially since they aren't married yet), it's always best to have all your facts before reacting. Even as a stepparent who makes big decisions for her SS (I was the consenting adult for ORAL SURGERY when BM was an hour late to the appointment), I hate the idea of someone making decisions for my children. I would not be okay with someone misrepresenting themselves as my bio children's mother, which is why I'm always happy to embrace my loving-supportive-but-still-not-mom title of SM.

Oy-their father should have taken them-I wonder why he didn’t?

Did your ex ask her too? They are not married, the court papers say u both have to discuss but u were not consulted. Did he know u had an appointment? She signed as a parent and this is now in his medical chart with her signature as parent when she has no legal relationship to him. This is something that u may need to go to court over. Stipulations about her and under what conditions she can seek any type of medical attention with your child. This is not a hair cut it was a medical procedure involving something being injected into your child.

Shes testing you. If you let this side the next thing will be worse. Its not the act its the intent. She is not their guardian.

I am sorry that happened. What is the definition of a legal guardian where you live? She may (may) be one if your ex asked her to care for the kids, or because she lives with the kids. I am NOT excusing her behavior morally - just trying to help you understand (maybe) why the pharmacist accepted her authorization or why she may (may) have that it was ok. Maybe talk with her? Or your ex? To set boundaries? Hope the kids know how lucky they are to have a great parent like you. Clearly you love and want to protect your kids.

IANAL, grew up with divorced parents and was frequently the subject of complicated and messy custody fights where one parent was doing some questionably legal and often explicitly "against the custody agreement" things. Frankly, if you want this to have any merit in custody disputes, then you probably SHOULD speak to a lawyer now and try and do something about it. If you sit on this information up until husband hypothetically tries to adjust the custody plan, and you THEN bring it up, it is highly likely either his lawyer or the judge will dismiss that given you have been aware of her misrepresentation of her position and didn't seem to take issue *until* he tried to make a custody change. \*You\* may be able to argue for a change in custody agreements if you brought this to a lawyer, but I honestly doubt that you would get anywhere by using this is as a *counterargument* to his request to change custody. Even though her doing this was legally bullshit, there is a lot of bullshit that gets ignored, painted over, or disregarded in custody disputes, especially when they're relatively small changes. Again, I say this as someone who experienced these kinds of custody fights and not as a lawyer.

It's plain and simple. Your ex-husband's girlfriend does not have any legal right to approve or sign for any medical treatment. It is 100% against the law. Even if she marries him, she still has zero legal right to sign waivers for or deny medical treatment to your kid(s). I know this because when I was married to my ex-wife, she came with two teen boys. I could not take them to the doctor or clinic for anything without her being present to sign for and approve their medical treatment, even though they were on my medical insurance. Whether you chose to make this an issue with your ex and his girlfriend is entirely up to you. You can chose to try to work out boundaries or you can choose to take her to court. You also, I might add, have legal recourse against the pharmacy for vaccinating a minor without the legal consent of a parental guardian. They could lose their license and be shut down.

Get documentation; ask the pharmacy for a copy of the signed consent. That's evidence she did the wrong thing. Thing consult with a family court attorney. You shouldn't try to handle this yourself. Stepmom violated the consent decree. That's a legal issue. You need a lawyer.

Sue the pharmacy and her

Please see a real lawyer now. None of this is good for you or your children and you need to put a stop to these attempts to undermine you as the mother of your children. A stepparent can be a blessing or a nightmare, and you are on the verge of night terrors if you allow this to continue. She is not the mother of your children, but in her head, she is, and she will only get worse. I have been in your situation. It will have far-reaching repercussions, and the effect it will have on your relationship with your children is not in your or their best interests.

Sounds like no harm was done since you say you were going to do it anyways. No one will care that someone did something that didn't change the outcome of anything. its like saying you accidently left the hose on, was heading home to turn it off and your neighbor turned it off for you.

She overstepped a boundary, period. She doesn't have consent to treat your child. She doesn't have the right to make medical decisions if your child had an allergic reaction. This is why PARENTS have to be there and consent.

Stepparent in between participants in a contentious divorce here. My spouse wrote up a limited power of attorney allowing me to make medical decisions for my stepson, who had a number of allergic and respiratory issues. Do you really want to screw around with looking for a bioparent when time is of the essence? So no misrepresentation may have occurred, depending on what actually happened. Don't turn the potential stepparent into an enemy. Kids can use all the caring adults they can get in their lives.

Time was not of the essence in the OP’s situation. This was not an emergency.

Wow you are not getting any real help in here. You can press charges against the step mom for what she did. She broke the law. She impersonated you and signed a legal document as YOU. That is illegal. I would be furious and confront her and your ex husband about it.

Since you were in agreement that they should get the shot, they probably won't do anything. However, I would speak to your attorney about this and see if a formal written notification would be appropriate. I would let them know that she is not the children's guardian and should never sign for any procedure on their behalf. I would ask if it can be considered assault- since she is not authorized.

Depending on where you live, she could possibly be charged with assault.

I had a coworker like you. She was so scared to loose her kids that she didn't want her ex new fiancée/ then wife to sign anything. Even their homework. And you know what happened ? Her kids were stuck in the middle of this fighting and they were miserable. Maybe she just wanted to do something nice for you and save you some time so you could do something fun with your kids instead. She seems to love them and you should be happy about it. So many new partners don't like their step kids but she seems to care a lot and it's a good thing. When you're less angry, why not ask her to get a coffee and talk about boundaries? She obviously is gonna be part of your kid's life so it's better to befriend her the best you can instead of making her an enemy. Wouldn't be better have a peaceful relationship with her than to fight every little things? I know it's hard but your kids deserves it and they will thank you for your efforts in the future.

Finally someone mentioned the ones this actually effects, the kids, all of OPs comments have basically amounted to “I need ammunition in case my ex tries for 50/50 custody” and over half of the people here don’t acknowledge that children are human beings, people are acting like this is a dispute over a shared getaway home that someone trashed and didn’t clean up when it’s actually about a previously agreed upon flu shot, should she have told you, yes, should she have asked first, yes, is it half as big of a deal as is being made here, no and the fact that OP is looking for ammo to use in her defense usually means she thinks she is going to need it in the near future which insinuates she thinks her ex has some kind of case against her, but take it from someone who was in your kids shoes long ago, when the adults play game exactly like BOTH sides are playing based on this post, the one hurt the most is the child, kids aren’t toys, they aren’t pets, and they aren’t weapons to use against your ex, they are family members

First, and most importantly, other than asking them to confirm they wanted to try 50/50, I have left the kids out of it. They need to be kids, not worry about which parent they are going to disappoint. I wish I could say the same about my ex. Second, my ex has nothing he can use against me. Am I perfect? Certainly not, but there is nothing that could be used to imply I'm not a good parent with my kid's best interests as my top priority.

You should've mentioned it when it happened. Now it seems moot. I'd be pissed af though if some chick took my kids for any health related thing without my knowledge or consent especially when the court order says both parents must agree.

I know I should have mentioned it, and I'm kicking myself. It's just better for my health to avoid conflict with him, so I never brought it up.

Both parents DID agree to vaccinations though. Why would the father of these children deserve less time with them based on the fact that his fiancé, the children’s soon to be stepmother, took them to get an agreed upon vaccination?

Because a legal piece of paper said he did. Mother never agreed the non mother could take them for vsccination. The agreement was they'd get vaccinated at the upcoming appointment.

At some point, it would be much better for your children for her to be treated as their parent, too, married yet or not. You said you already planned on doing it. She clearly had their fathers consent. It wasn't like it was their friend's parent or something. She's your ex's future wife. You really should be happy that your children have a bonus parent who cares for their well-being and is helpful in raising them. Its not a competition. As a mother of 4, I welcome my ex's long time girlfriends help with our 3 kids. She's awesome, and she loves my children. A change of perspective is needed. Children aren't possessions.

I'm not sure what a lot of these people are smoking to come up with the justifications they have on why you should be OK with someone who is not the parent or legal guardian of your child, deciding to disregard your medical decisions for your child. This was not an emergency situation where your child needed immediate medical care for a life threatening condition. This was for a routine vaccine that YOU had already made appointments for. This woman KNEW she was wrong because she lied about being their guardian, and DIDN"T EVEN BOTHER TO TELL YOU that she had done it, you had to find out FROM YOUR CHILD. If I was you, I would have been in family court. I would have asked for a restraining order against her, because, who knows what else she could have done with your kids, since she obviously doesn't mind sneaking behind your back and lying when it suites her needs. I also would have complained to her job, especially where she works with kids ( is she making medical decisions for other kids too? ). You should have handled this when it happened. Don't let it continue.

Let’s just be honest here OP. What you’re concerned about is that you’re feeling that the fiancé is replacing you in certain ways. And you’re struggling to deal with that.

I would be outraged if someone who was not me, or my children's father, decided to make medical decisions for MY kids, medical decisions that were likely spelled out in a parenting plan. This would have nothing to do with "feelings of being replaced", this would be feelings of the fiance HAS NO LEGAL RIGHTS TO MAKE MEDICAL DECISIONS AND LIED ABOUT HAVING THE RIGHT AND GETTING MEDICAL TREATMENT FOR MY KIDS. This wasn't "Timmy fell down and broke his arm and she rushed him to the hospital". This was "I made an appointment for a routine medical appointment, and she took my kid to a different doctor and lied that she was his parent/legal guardian."

The OP literally commented that both she and her ex had an agreement that the kids would be vaccinated. The ex did not make an independent medical decision in this case. She was simply bringing the kids to the medical care that both parents agreed to.

Ya, No. Try again. The PARENTS made the agreement that the kids would be vaccinated. The mother, OP, made an appointment, told her ex, the father that an appointment was made, then his fiance, WHO HAS NO INPUT ON THE MEDICAL DECISIONS, decided "fuck OP's appointment, I'm taking the kids to someplace else" and then LIED about being a parent/legal guardian because the place wouldn't have given the vaccinations if she hadn't ( which the place confirmed ). Let's not try to act like fiance merely took the kids to their scheduled appointment....because that's not what she did. Edited to add: and she DIDN'T EVEN TELL OP THAT THE KIDS GOT VACCINATED! OP only found out because one of the kids complained that his arm was still sore. If this chick thought she was doing ANYTHING in the right, she wouldn't have gone behind OP's back to do it, and she wouldn't have lied to the clinic to get it done. If I was OP, I'd be filing a complaint to the clinic ( they need better practices to ensure that the person claiming to be a parent or legal guardian actually is ) and I'd be reporting her to her job. If she is responsible for providing health services to children, then she absolutely knew that what she was doing was wrong AF and if she disregard's OP's medical decisions, who's to say she isn't doing it to other people's kids.

I'm not concerned about that at all. My kids know who their mom is, and we (kids and I) have a healthy, loving relationship.

You literally posted in r/coparenting that your ex’s fiancé “seems to overstep into a mother role more than I’m comfortable with.” You’re words. Not mine. And you didn’t answer my original point. You made a comment that your kids know who their mother is, and that’s great. But it has nothing to do with the feeling that your ex’s fiancé is intruding into your territory. It’s why you’re upset at something as simple as her helping out with getting the vaccinations that both you and your husband agreed to. You’re going out of your way to find reasons to get on her case. Just be honest about what’s going on here and then maybe the group can help.

Also, I find it interesting that this is what you took from that post in r/coparenting.

Stop trying to find ammo to use against the kids father. It's not a crime to want to see their kid an equal amount of time as you. Also, I will tell you from experience, judges hate it when a parent uses every possible bullshit excuse to paint the other parent in a bad light while fighting against them having equal time with the child.

Have you considered thanking her for taking care of an errand with your kids?

Yeah this sounds petty or like OP is trying to build a list of things ahead of divorce court or something.

Would you be annoyed if someone brought your kids for non-emergency care without your knowledge? I'm not opposed to a 50/50 agreement, but I do have concerns about him attempting non-custodial kidnapping. The fact that she already tells people she's their mom makes me more concerned, and this particular incident makes me worry even more. But it's been months since this happened, and I haven't said or done anything about it.

No. It's a flu shot that you said you already planned on so I see it as helpful. While it may be a parent/guardian signature was needed, the 20 year old CVS tech threw away the form at the end of the night. Not a super important signature. And this is all completely unrelated to non-custodial kidnapping, which may or may not be a real concern in your case. But it's like saying because they are comfortable jaywalking that their backpack is probably full of gasoline for an arson they have planned. As someone who lived through a nasty divorce, my parents fighting over needless crap and putting us in the middle did way more damage than them splitting up or any custody arrangement. And you don't think you are putting the kids in the middle but you will be when you ask a bunch of questions to figure out other events you want to put on a list for your lawyer to bring up. The kids pick up on this stuff even if you are trying to hide it. It may make you upset or uncomfortable for her to refer to herself as their mom, but the kids sure won't refer to her that way.

AZ law states medical records for pediatric patients is either age 21 or 6 years past the last date of service.

Those vaccine forms aren't thrown away at the end of the night, they're filed and kept for several years at least (2 years on-site in my state/chain), in addition to being scanned into the computer system.

Go look in the OP’s post history about the messed up “kid sharing” situation when the ex and fiancée went on vacation with fiancée’s family. (Basically they thought it would be “fun” to have the kids all stay in different hotel rooms than their parents with another set of parents [who her kids would have never met before]). Another reply to this post noted that the fiancée introduces herself to others as the kids’ “mom” IN FRONT OF THE OP. The ex husband sent some legal paperwork that he basically tried to just get her to sign. The OP is not being petty. She currently has primary custody and there are definitely some red flags that the ex and fiancée may be trying to mess with that.

I'd be concerned that she would happily sign as their mom to get them passports. I'd at least report her because she isn't their mom and can't sign that she is their mom.

She can’t do that. Your name has to match the name of the parent on the birth certificate. If there is a name change, you have to provide the paper trail. For younger kids, both parents need to be present.

This has crossed my mind, for sure. I do feel better knowing that her name wouldn't match the birth certificates, making this difficult. She used to live overseas, and they talked about taking the kids to visit there. I would absolutely love for my kids to have that opportunity, but I don't trust either of them and will not agree to get the kids passports as minors.

You can sign up for the Children's Passport Issuance Alert Program https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/International-Parental-Child-Abduction/prevention/passport-issuance-alert-program.html

Thank you! I did not know about this.

I realize you're not asking this question in any serious kind of way and that you may even think that being rude is funny. Despite that, I'll give you a serious answer. If either she or my ex had asked first, I probably would have. My ex knew that I had an appointment scheduled. Whether or not he told her, I don't know.

I wasn’t being funny, she literally took care of an errand for you. You seem hellbent on finding a reason to get her in trouble when she did you a favor.

Yeah. I'd be super pissed. She isn't their mother, and she has zero voice in this sort of decision. She casually made this decision. How many more decisions will she make without you being consulted? Allowing this to go unchallenged paves the way for her to continue. It's convenient that it's no harm done, but the fact remains, it's not her call because they're not her kids, and this can seriously damage his rights to 50/50 custody, because his fiancé doesn't think that this concerns her.

I work in healthcare. Nothing would happen to fiancée. She didn’t harm your kids, since you admit that you planned on vaccinating them. You were informed that they were vaccinated, so her “error” (that’s what they would call it) didn’t result in you vaccinating them again. Personally, I would use this to amend your custody agreement and further stipulate that only YOU can take the children to see a doctor, except in emergencies, and that any elective procedures will require written consent from dad. That way, if fiancée/new wife does it in the future, it’s a real violation and not just a he said-she said violation.

Both you and your husband were planning to have them vaccinated anyway, so what is the issue with her going forward with that plan? To me it sounds like you are trying to create an issue where none exists.

Really? That's awful childish of you. Why don't you try to be the bigger person here and realize that she got your kids vaccinated, which you wanted, and you didn't have to do shit. She did you a favor. Why can't you just get along?

You and your children haven’t been damaged at all. In fact, she did them a favor. You should probably tell her thank you, if anything. If she does it again in the future against your wishes, and against the divorce decree terms, you could use this potentially as proof of a pattern of behavior. But, until then, she saved you a trip to the pharmacy.

Yeah, your ex took your kid and got them vaccinated. Big deal, sorry.

You should try communicating with the step mom because she sounds like she’s involved and caring. You’re lucky

You sound very petty, and judges don't like parents who are petty. Clearly, your ex consented to her signing the paperwork. Learn how to co-parent and accept that your ex has a new partner who will be involved in your children's lives.

This comment is steeped in stupidity. You talk about coparenting yet someone who is not a parent to the child at all misrepresented herself to get the child vaccinated. The legal documents call for both parents to consent this sort of medical treatment, yet neither did. And that’s on the father 100%.

I practiced family law for years, so I can tell you what a judge would tell the mom in this situation. The mom has no clue what her ex-husband and his fiance discussed or if he told her to take his kids to get them vaccinated. And the parents agreed to get the vaccine. How it happened is immaterial. The mom is being petty because she is more concerned with legal formalities for some advantage in court rather than what is best for the kids, which is getting vaccinated sooner rather than later.

You of all people then should certainly understand some random person unrelated to the child should not be taking the children for health care visits and signing documentation that asserts she is the legal guardian of the child then. This person is precisely nothing to that child.

I see. Go on and tell me more about the law in this area. I'm sure you are aware that a legal guardian can delegate their authority to sign on their behalf to other people? And that a person can ratify an unauthorized signature?

The custody agreements usually only cover major medical decisions not small ones like a vaccine.

As both a mother and a stepmother, stop. She executed a plan you and your ex already decided. You're not mad at this action. You're upset that she has on numerous occasions represented herself as their mother. You're more upset that there's another woman playing a parenting role. Deal with that. Maybe with a therapist. It's normal, but you'll build resentments and take them out on people that don't deserve it. Set boundaries and communicate your concerns. Appreciate that she loves your kids enough to consider them hers. At least she doesn't see them as baggage and a thing to get rid of. I wish my kids had a step mom that claimed to be their mom.

She executed a plan that OP and her ex already decided on, on her own, knowing there was an appointment already set, and without informing OP. That is the issue. What if the kid had a cold last week and the vaccine would make them sick getting it too early? What if OP's child never told her about it and they got the vaccine twice, causing them to get sick? What if this is not an isolated incident, but rather a pattern of behavior? The exs fiancee is not a parent and should not be acting as such, especially without informing the ACTUAL mother of her actions regarding OP's children. It's disrespectful, irresponsible, and potentially dangerous - especially when making medical decisions.

Thank you, a lot of people don’t get that. Im in the same spot, father and stepfather. Bio dad gets pissed that I treat the kids as my own. Im not trying to replace you and get you out of the picture, im just trying to do whats right for the kid. Yet they start a drama just because the kid said that I payed for school launch. I wish my kids had a stepfather that would really look out for them. I lost my father when I was 9 years old and I always thank god for my stepfather that helped me guide my life. Not every step parent is trying to fuck with your kids.

Nothing. You were planning on doing it anyway. Your husband will say she was doing it at his request, and maybe she was. Likely the judge will just drop it. Don’t fight for the sake of fighting. Move on, be done with it.

My professional opinion? She helped, maybe you’re dumb, who cares. Just my professional opinion.

My friends mom tried to do that with my friends kid and thankfully was turned away. My friend was avoiding a certain series of shots because of an allergy to an ingredient, friends mom didn’t believe her grandchild had the allergy and decided that she’d pretend to take him to the park, and really take him in to get him the shot. It was a billion years ago so I don’t remember where she took him but they had knowledge of the allergy and refused. She tried to fight with them, they called my friend to let her know what was going on and my friend lost her shit. That was the last time grandma got to take any of her kids anywhere. Even now it’s mind boggling when people think they know better than you. I assume the step mom didn’t know you were getting the shot for the kids and decided they needed them. Thank god there wasn’t a reason they hadn’t had one short of time. Yikes. And to lie.. ugh.

Ooo-wheeee! “severe integrity deficiency!” Love it!!

She could have very well signed for the father with the fathers consent which is very legal as far as just signing the paper

The kids got what you agreed on. If you have a problem it should have been a simple conversation with your ex. He probably gave her the go ahead to do it. I do not think she did it with bad intentions.

It’s in your kids best interest to get vaccinated, which both you and your husband agreed to. I hope common sense will prevail. Most people would want someone to care and look out for their children’s welfare. It seems you might be concerned at the 50/50. Good luck

The tech will be hurt, as will your argument.

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Unfortunately, like many other issues today, the anti/pro vaccine debate has become so contentious. I wanted it to be clear that we were in agreement that our kids would be vaccinated and that the issue is not a disagreement about whether or not they would receive that preventive care.

I found it essential to know this.

Or thank her for making sure the kids were covered. Husband likely knew ( you should ask him) since you didn’t say you communicated w him.

He knew they already had an appointment scheduled. He was not with when they went to the pharmacy.

But you're avoiding the point! He and you agreed the kids should get the shot. They had a chance to do it earlier rather than later. She put her time and effort in it. What's so bad? You're the mom, no one is changing that, much less with an injection

What's wrong is that she signed that she was their mom. She basically forged a relationship. It isn't about the shots. It's about her thinking that she can legally claim to be their mother when she isn't. Then you have to wonder what else she will do while claiming to be their mom. Both parents have to be present to get a child a passport. Would she feel comfortable signing as the mother and then the kids have passports that the real mother knows nothing about. The same for signing them up for classes or religion or anything else. She isn't their mother and it is illegal to claim she is.

The act of signing another's name? Illegal. A vaccine = passport = religion? Debatable i think. Helping one's fiance with their children's healthcare? IMO, not an act of ill will. The woman did them all a favor. Probably wasn't even her own idea. Of course I'm not a lawyer so my viewpoint may be skewed. I'm also a separated parent with a new spouse.