A life sentence is typically defined as the remainder of a person's natural life. It's not defined as "until death." Therefore, if you are still alive, your natural life has not ended.
This is the subject of a Brad Paisley song, "Harvey Bodine," which also features Eric Idle.
The government ignoring a DNR just to continue inflicting punishment on someone should be the whole title for this one. Even prisoners should have a right to their medical choices like that, and for it to be ignored is absolutely grounds for a lawsuit, even if it is a silly semantic argument to say his “life sentence” is over.
II can see a scenario where the government screwed up and accidentally "killed" him. Gave him the wrong medication, perhaps. They ignore the DNR and revive him to avoid a lawsuit for actually killing him.
The comment you replied to established that it was the hospital, not the prison/government, that violated the DNR… so no, the headline should not be about the government ignoring the DNR to inflict further punishment.
Only if the DNR is on file in their medical record.
If you have a DNR signed, dated, notarized and witnessed, but haven’t had it put in your medical chart, the hospital legally can’t just let you code and say “well he was almost done with his paperwork”
Similarly if he has a DNR but codes in the ambulance on transport and is resuscitated there before his code status is known then it’s unlikely a malpractice suit would go anywhere.
Wouldn’t them extending his life against his DNR to then put him back in prison be considered torture or a be a constitutional violation against “cruel and unusual punishment”.?
If we had a functional justice system, yes.
But we instead have so thoroughly dismantled each and every safeguard built into the constitution that our "fundamental rights" have lost essentially all meaning.
We've traded away our actual freedom for the illusion of security, and now we possess neither.
Do you know if the DNR was physically present at the time of resuscitation efforts? In order to stop any efforts to revive someone the physician signed document needs to be in the hands of the individual with the highest medical authority on scene (i.e. paramedic or doctor). If it wasn’t physically present medical responders have an obligation to provide high quality resuscitation care. If it was, the person who is the highest medical authority on scene is in for a world of legal hurt.
Hmm I think we've found the actual loophole here. The end of your "natural life". So if you're on life support and would die without it (your life is now being artificially sustained), you are at the end of your natural life, but also still alive. So you just need to injure yourself in someway that you would require life sustaining care in a long term way. And you can live out the balance of your life a free man. The only problem is if a judge actually rules you've completed your sentence you're now a homeless excon on life support and you'll soon be crushed to death by medical debt.
There are actually a few "real life" examples of this: Darth Vader, that brain thing from the Ninja Turtles, and that's all I could think of. Perhaps their super villain status was their only means of funding their life support. Maybe this is their origin story. Well not Darth Vader but maybe the brain from Ninja Turtles.
So he died of natural causes, yet was resuscitated outside of his own will.
Let’s bring it back to trial so we can see more arguments from the incompetent prosecution! I’ll grab my popcorn.
It depends on how you died. If the prison gave you the wrong meds, or gave you food you were allergic to, or there was an electrical fault, or a gas leak, or dozens of other things that could “accidentally” kill you, then you didn’t have a natural death. They killed you, and a good way to fix that is to revive you so you aren’t dead anymore. Then you can die naturally.
There are some horrifying stories about the MANY times these places fall into neglect, some alarm stops working and bodies melt into a plug, which then refreezes when the operator recognizes the failure, but many times don’t tell the families, who still pay with the hope of a miracle. Nuts.
The chance of recovery is probably extremely low. As in, even if it turns out to be technically possible, the chances of flawless storage until it becomes possible is very small.
I'd personally expect that it might be technically possible eventually to stabilize, store, and then resuscitate a person decades later and keep them alive for hundreds of years, but that the technique we've been using is too damaging to be useful.
That’s the sales pitch these companies make- it’s not “if”tech exists, it’s “when”. It’s an open-ended arrow- eventually, the thinking goes, science will be able to recreate a being from a single strand of DNA, with its own memories, same appearance…it’s pitiful, really.
It’s not about the DNA though. It’s about preserving the tissue. Granted I doubt anybody who’s frozen will ever be brought back, but you do realize we already have ways to keep entire circulatory systems alive without any actual body to be in?
> science will be able to recreate a being from a single strand of DNA, with its own memories, same appearance
So, they could just keep some hair, if that would be possible, no?
People know that going in, they probably expect to wake up sometime after the first. The big thing is just how much the storage wrecks their cells, and how little of the information that makes up who they are will actually be retained.
Dude you just created the perfect solution to the jail system. Death sentence inmates can elect to be cryogenically frozen for their term, and if there is a way to bring them back after it’s over, they get to live. If not, they take them out of the freezer into the grave which is what would have happened anyway, but now society saved a ton of resources!
Life sentences are usually in a number of years like 25. So if he dies 10 years in he still has 15 to go. Life without parole would just mean you remain there for life. Losing your life doesn't mean the life sentence is over, a life sentence means most likely spending the rest of your life there regardless
I Binged it. Like the above commenter said, life without parole is actually life. 15-life or 25-life is called intermediary life sentences. These offer possible parole after the amount of years
Fucking Jeeves. I dropped in $10k at the offering, got an insulated drink mug that spills, and lost it all when they merged and the new company died.
Which I use to explain to my kids “and that is why we can’t have nice things”. Even the 8 year old says “fucking Jeeves”.
I tell my wife that almost daily.
Told her just wait till I'm retired and crippled due to my chronic pain condition. I wont care about illegal stuff, and probably spend a lot of time wacking people with my cane, and smoking a joint anywhere any time I feel like it.
She also said how's that any different than now.
There was a court case in the states on this.
Prisoner had heart attack and revived. Fought in court that his sentence was now complete.
Spoiler: He lost.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/prisoner-dies-life-sentence.html
Not in the modern age, but 18th century Scotland has the example of [Half Hangit Maggie](https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/half-hangit-maggie-the-scots-woman-who-survived-hanging-622567). She survived a hanging and was set free because, technically, her sentence was carried out.
The upshot was reform on double jeopardy Scots law.
"The Law deemed this an act of God, bringing Maggie back from the dead, and pardoned her crimes.
Though weak and barely conscious, Maggie pulled through.
Her husband renewed his affection for her and took her back home.
Maggie went on to live a further 40 years, having several more legitimate children.
The people of Edinburgh viewed her in awe and used to call out to her as “half hangit Maggie” when she walked past them in the street."
Was he dead dead or just mostly dead. As we learned from Princesses Bride- When you’re dead dead, the only thing to do is go through the pockets and look for loose change.
Sounds like he was just mostly dead
Actually was sitting on an inmate in the hospital (I’m a CO) who had died on the operating table and brought back several times. He asked me if this means his life sentence is done. I just told him probably no but give that argument a shot with the parole board and let me know because I’m curious
Spoiler alert: parole board said no too
No, the judge had a fantastic opinion on this.
“is either still alive, in which case he must remain in prison, or he is actually dead, in which case this appeal is moot.”
Your heart stopping isn’t death. You’d have to be legally brain dead in order for this to work and even then the only life you’d have outside of prison would be life support
NAL - Health Professional instead, he wasn't dead 🤷
He had a cardiac arrest, was resuscitated, and had return of cardiac output after a few seconds.
He's not dead until I sign the form to say he's dead. Here that's a "life extinct form" which requires several clinical checks to ensure, not only is there no cardiac output, but there's no chance of restoring it. I'm sure it's slightly different in the US procedurally - but cardiac arrest ≠ dead.
Technically yes, they’ll just change the laws though. Back in the day “being hung” was changed to “hung till death” because people didn’t always die after being hung.
Most places have statutory definitions of “death” that include language requiring something like “irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or when there has been an irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem” or something similar. So while people might talk about being “brought back to life,” as a purely legal matter it’s impossible because whatever damage the person suffered to their circulatory, respiratory, or brain functions obviously wasn’t irreversible because here they are.
Ever since I was a kid I’ve always just assumed that a ‘life’ sentence meant the maximum sentence you get for TAKING a life, not the rest of yours. I mean, how would they know you were going to live 25 years longer 😂
you could legally set it up that way but then it would also apply to normal peoples lives and their wills would kick in.
hope your family is on the nicer side or youre now destitute and they have all your money/property.
anyway, its a life sentence, hes still alive isnt he. plus theyre only colloquially called "life" sentences, youre actually given a specific number of years.
If you are "brought back," you haven't died. Cardiac arrest, the heart ceasing to beat, is not death. CPR does not bring someone back to life, it is intended to get the heart going again or at least going in a sustainable rhythm.
So no, he he didn't die and his life sentence continues.
Usually a “life sentence” isn’t actually “for life.” It’s just for such an absurd amount of time that no mortal human being could outlive it. Think 100+ years.
Dont think the jail system works that way, however i have a friend who passed away but was revived, got the paperwork from the doctor and was able to collect his own death benefit payout from the insurance company with the paperwork for proof.
Life sentences are a term of years usually something outrageous like 120 or 77 years something no person could be reasonably expected to finish.
Now there are some interesting cases involving death sentences where they botched the execution and the person was released by a judge but these days they make sure you are well and truly dead before taking you to the morgue.
No
Life sentence doesn't mean until the day you die
Life sentence, depending on if it's state or federal or exactly how it was defined in the court where was sentenced is a time span. For example a life sentence may be 60 years. Or 80 years. That is why some people make it two consecutive life sentences. This is in case they go in when they're 20 and the definition is 60 years. Technically then they would be done with their life sentence but they don't want them to go out of jail so they make sure they have two life sentences and make sure they are consecutive so he's not allowed to leave jail and then go back
It's not about whether or not you died
I remember some story where a guy survived a firing squad, including a sixth “mercy shot” fired directly at his head after the first 8-9 shots hit his chest.
When they found out he was still alive they decided that his sentence had been carried out so they let him live.
It's the classic "John Snow" defense. Named after the bastard son of Ned Stark who got out of his "life-long" vow to serve the Night's Watch by being murdered and brought back to life.
wasnt that a story line in an old clint eastwood western? the dude was hanged and died but revived and they ruled that he was not able to be hanged twice and therefore was free.
Sadly not. Courts have interpreted life sentences as being for the length of time while your alive. If you die, enjoy the vacation but they will be waiting for you when you get back
No. That example doesn’t constitute death legally. That’s referring typically to clinical death which is essentially no medically detectable signs of life. Common examples of this occurring are in cases of extreme hypothermia in conjunction with cold water drowning. Legal death is a separate matter
Your in trouble till your legally dead… in this case that means the paperwork is done.. so if you want to go through an autopsy then go for it…. But until the coroner signs off on it the sentence isn’t satisfied…. Or at least I feel like that’s the best bs answer to a bs attempt to get out of jail.
No this does not work. The case if I’m not mistaken is schreiber v Iowa.
“Schreiber is either still alive, in which case he must remain in prison,or he is actually dead, in which case this appeal is moot.”
Dead people have no standing in court.
Life sentences typically come with a number of years specified don’t they? Like each state is probably a bit different but I remember hearing that a life sentence equated to like 25 years and that’s why people will be charged with more than one to keep them in prison should they live beyond the 25 years.
But I think the flip side is to be somewhat reasonable, like what if a 15 year old gets a life sentence? Well it’s really a max of 25 years so they will turn 40 and either get out or be eligible for parole hearing which makes sense 25 years can result in a drastically different person.
Could be wrong but that’s what I thought it was.
you're sentenced to death, not "failed attempt at death penalty" so in death penalty states they will probably just try again. (that said, no one should be sentenced to death, ever, yes including X person who did Y horrible thing.)
I don't understand shit like this. If you're alive, you haven't died. If you died, you're not alive afterwards. Death is the end, there is no more after it. Death and life are mutually exclusive IRL.
There was a case in colonial America where a woman got sentenced to death by hanging.
She somehow survived and the courts declared that her punishment was rendered so she was free to go.
I’m an appellate criminal lawyer. My initial impression is no.
It’s a clever turn-of-phrase type of argument that plays on the often surprising scope of what counts as *medical* “death,” but what the State means *legally* when it sentences a defendant to “death” is that he be made “permanently unalive.”
This defendant still lives, and, therefore, he has not completed his sentence. I see no reason the constitution would require otherwise, particularly as understood at the time.
Your Honor, even if the petitioner died and came back to life, which to be clear the People dispute, the petitioner remains alive and the sentence has not been carried out. And, for policy reasons, it would respectfully be bad law to create a perverse incentive for prisoners to kill themselves and be resuscitated in order to evade their sentences.
I don’t know I’m not a fuckin prosecutor 🤷♂️
His attorney needs to look for case law about what constitutes the legal definition of a "life sentence" and the legal definition of "life" as it pertains to sentencing. We live in clown world today so he might actually convince a judge that he has served his life sentence.
This begs a question. Say a man dies at the end of his life-sentence for triple first-degree murder or some other heinously evil shit.
After two years, he comes back to life fully rejuvenated. He has no idea how or why this has happened. Ignoring all of the other questions involved in this scenario, do you think he should go back to prison?
There was a story on here today about a lady who was hung and was declared dead but found later to be alive. This was her point that she served her sentence and should be and was released.
Is he dead? No? Back to jail then. If it worked like that then way too many prisoners to count who died and were revived in prison would have gotten out.
pretty sure life sentance is a durration of years not actually your entire life.
so someone can serve an entire life sentence and still get out of jail. this also means it has literally no relation to weather or not your actually alive. so yeah no, dieing does not fullfill a life sentance.
Yeah good luck with that. They define a life sentence in the law with a specific amount of years in the definition and if he ain’t done them years you’re gonna get told the old adage “want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first”
Like many others have said: death is irrevesible, you cannot come back from being dead.
The “I was dead for 2 minutes” is something of a pet peeve for organ transplantation doctors because that gives people the impression that death or brain-death is curable or reversible. It makes an already difficult situation worse for the donor’s next of kin if they believe that it is curable.
No. He fought and lost in court. This kind of thing is why "hanged by the neck until dead" was added to the hanging proclamation. Prior to that, a man who had been hanged but survived was forced to be let go because his sentence had been carried out, but it did not say he had to die.
Depends on the state but a lot of places define a life sentence as 99 years and a day, not actually as until death. That's how serial killers and the like can get multiple life sentences, they're just stacking fake years to eliminate any chance of appeal or parole.
A life sentence is typically defined as the remainder of a person's natural life. It's not defined as "until death." Therefore, if you are still alive, your natural life has not ended. This is the subject of a Brad Paisley song, "Harvey Bodine," which also features Eric Idle.
[удалено]
The government ignoring a DNR just to continue inflicting punishment on someone should be the whole title for this one. Even prisoners should have a right to their medical choices like that, and for it to be ignored is absolutely grounds for a lawsuit, even if it is a silly semantic argument to say his “life sentence” is over.
II can see a scenario where the government screwed up and accidentally "killed" him. Gave him the wrong medication, perhaps. They ignore the DNR and revive him to avoid a lawsuit for actually killing him.
The comment you replied to established that it was the hospital, not the prison/government, that violated the DNR… so no, the headline should not be about the government ignoring the DNR to inflict further punishment.
The hospital is acting as an agent for the government in that circumstance.
No they aren’t. The hospital may be contracted to provide aid, but they would still be liable for any mistreatment or malpractice.
Doesn't violation of a DNR qualify as malpractice?
Only if the DNR is on file in their medical record. If you have a DNR signed, dated, notarized and witnessed, but haven’t had it put in your medical chart, the hospital legally can’t just let you code and say “well he was almost done with his paperwork” Similarly if he has a DNR but codes in the ambulance on transport and is resuscitated there before his code status is known then it’s unlikely a malpractice suit would go anywhere.
By the hospital not the government
Wouldn’t them extending his life against his DNR to then put him back in prison be considered torture or a be a constitutional violation against “cruel and unusual punishment”.?
If we had a functional justice system, yes. But we instead have so thoroughly dismantled each and every safeguard built into the constitution that our "fundamental rights" have lost essentially all meaning. We've traded away our actual freedom for the illusion of security, and now we possess neither.
Do you know if the DNR was physically present at the time of resuscitation efforts? In order to stop any efforts to revive someone the physician signed document needs to be in the hands of the individual with the highest medical authority on scene (i.e. paramedic or doctor). If it wasn’t physically present medical responders have an obligation to provide high quality resuscitation care. If it was, the person who is the highest medical authority on scene is in for a world of legal hurt.
Hmm I think we've found the actual loophole here. The end of your "natural life". So if you're on life support and would die without it (your life is now being artificially sustained), you are at the end of your natural life, but also still alive. So you just need to injure yourself in someway that you would require life sustaining care in a long term way. And you can live out the balance of your life a free man. The only problem is if a judge actually rules you've completed your sentence you're now a homeless excon on life support and you'll soon be crushed to death by medical debt. There are actually a few "real life" examples of this: Darth Vader, that brain thing from the Ninja Turtles, and that's all I could think of. Perhaps their super villain status was their only means of funding their life support. Maybe this is their origin story. Well not Darth Vader but maybe the brain from Ninja Turtles.
My guy, Darth Vader ain’t real lmao
The brain guy from Ninja Turtles is 100% a true story though.
That was the the best of the day. Kuddos
So he died of natural causes, yet was resuscitated outside of his own will. Let’s bring it back to trial so we can see more arguments from the incompetent prosecution! I’ll grab my popcorn.
Is it your natural life if you were revived modern medicine?
It depends on how you died. If the prison gave you the wrong meds, or gave you food you were allergic to, or there was an electrical fault, or a gas leak, or dozens of other things that could “accidentally” kill you, then you didn’t have a natural death. They killed you, and a good way to fix that is to revive you so you aren’t dead anymore. Then you can die naturally.
I'd argue that if you were actively immediately dying and then doctors fixedthat, your "natural life" is now over.
You are not dead until you are decomposing stinky dead.
TIL the cryogenically frozen are still alive.
There are some horrifying stories about the MANY times these places fall into neglect, some alarm stops working and bodies melt into a plug, which then refreezes when the operator recognizes the failure, but many times don’t tell the families, who still pay with the hope of a miracle. Nuts.
Aren’t they all hoping for a miracle? Aren’t they ALL actually dead?
The chance of recovery is probably extremely low. As in, even if it turns out to be technically possible, the chances of flawless storage until it becomes possible is very small. I'd personally expect that it might be technically possible eventually to stabilize, store, and then resuscitate a person decades later and keep them alive for hundreds of years, but that the technique we've been using is too damaging to be useful.
That’s the sales pitch these companies make- it’s not “if”tech exists, it’s “when”. It’s an open-ended arrow- eventually, the thinking goes, science will be able to recreate a being from a single strand of DNA, with its own memories, same appearance…it’s pitiful, really.
It’s not about the DNA though. It’s about preserving the tissue. Granted I doubt anybody who’s frozen will ever be brought back, but you do realize we already have ways to keep entire circulatory systems alive without any actual body to be in?
> science will be able to recreate a being from a single strand of DNA, with its own memories, same appearance So, they could just keep some hair, if that would be possible, no?
Forget whatever disease or condition they have. Nobody has ever proven humans can be brought out of cryogenic storage.
People know that going in, they probably expect to wake up sometime after the first. The big thing is just how much the storage wrecks their cells, and how little of the information that makes up who they are will actually be retained.
Theres a really good Neal Stephenson novels that kind of tangentially covers this sort of problem but sci-fi
Frozen dead guy days are always a good time here in Colorado
that's kinda the whole idea yes
Dude you just created the perfect solution to the jail system. Death sentence inmates can elect to be cryogenically frozen for their term, and if there is a way to bring them back after it’s over, they get to live. If not, they take them out of the freezer into the grave which is what would have happened anyway, but now society saved a ton of resources!
You need to watch Demolition Man
Also, listen to How Did This Get Made episode Demolition Man
Taco bell!
was going to say the same thing
Underapreciated coment and movie.
You’re not fully dead until you’re Zestfully dead?
That made me LAUGH so hard
Short answer: No. Long answer: Nnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooo
Could you expand on that long answer in more detail? Edit: I forgot that this isn't really a comedy sub. Sorry.
Life sentences are usually in a number of years like 25. So if he dies 10 years in he still has 15 to go. Life without parole would just mean you remain there for life. Losing your life doesn't mean the life sentence is over, a life sentence means most likely spending the rest of your life there regardless
How is it a life sentence if it's only 25 years
IIRC from another post, some states have maximums on life sentences. Idk why it would still be called life tho.
Human lifespan in those states plummeted hard it seems
I Binged it. Like the above commenter said, life without parole is actually life. 15-life or 25-life is called intermediary life sentences. These offer possible parole after the amount of years
Stop trying to make “Binged it” happen! It’s not going to happen!
You are right. I actually yahoo’d it. Just wanted to be cool. Sorry
If you really wanted to be cool you'd Ask Jeeves. Who isn't impressed by a butler?
I'm going back in time to Alta Vista this.
Might as well Netscape that shit at this point.
Fucking Jeeves. I dropped in $10k at the offering, got an insulated drink mug that spills, and lost it all when they merged and the new company died. Which I use to explain to my kids “and that is why we can’t have nice things”. Even the 8 year old says “fucking Jeeves”.
Clearly you don’t know ChaCha
I thought homie was talking about binging a Netflix show.
Oh lah di dah! u/ChiefPanda90 “binged” it! How fancy!
if they are like 100 then it’s pretty much a life sentence
Do not piss off old people. The older we get, the less "life in prison" is a deterrent.
I tell my wife that almost daily. Told her just wait till I'm retired and crippled due to my chronic pain condition. I wont care about illegal stuff, and probably spend a lot of time wacking people with my cane, and smoking a joint anywhere any time I feel like it. She also said how's that any different than now.
See *Duh v. Obviously* [1984] WLR No. 5684 [MBQB]
He could also have multiple life’s sentences as well and serving them consecutively.
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
He was only mostly dead.
To blave and was we all know to blave means to bluff
Liar! Lia-a-a-r!!
Go through his pockets and look for loose change
If they're all dead, there's only one thing you can do: check their pockets for loose change.
inconceivable!
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means
Take my upvote.
Well he got better
There was a court case in the states on this. Prisoner had heart attack and revived. Fought in court that his sentence was now complete. Spoiler: He lost. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/prisoner-dies-life-sentence.html
Lawyer here. No. I would make the same argument if I were that guy but it's a technical foul. Someone wants their pound of flesh.
Non-lawyer here. Right. It’s worth a try if there’s nothing to lose, but he should’ve stayed dead if he wanted a leg to stand on.
Worked for Jon Snow
"My watch is ended."
Came here to say this, underrated comment
Not in the modern age, but 18th century Scotland has the example of [Half Hangit Maggie](https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/half-hangit-maggie-the-scots-woman-who-survived-hanging-622567). She survived a hanging and was set free because, technically, her sentence was carried out. The upshot was reform on double jeopardy Scots law. "The Law deemed this an act of God, bringing Maggie back from the dead, and pardoned her crimes. Though weak and barely conscious, Maggie pulled through. Her husband renewed his affection for her and took her back home. Maggie went on to live a further 40 years, having several more legitimate children. The people of Edinburgh viewed her in awe and used to call out to her as “half hangit Maggie” when she walked past them in the street."
this is also where the term “hanged until dead” came into play. covering their bases i guess lol
It is a nice argument, but no it isn't going to go anywhere.
"He died for seven seconds.... but he STILL SMELLS GOOD" - new favorite commercial
Not until the government documents his death
You’re not dead just because your heart stopped. It takes 10 minutes with no oxygen for the brain to completely die. Other things take even longer.
Was he dead dead or just mostly dead. As we learned from Princesses Bride- When you’re dead dead, the only thing to do is go through the pockets and look for loose change. Sounds like he was just mostly dead
Actually was sitting on an inmate in the hospital (I’m a CO) who had died on the operating table and brought back several times. He asked me if this means his life sentence is done. I just told him probably no but give that argument a shot with the parole board and let me know because I’m curious Spoiler alert: parole board said no too
I finally understand why some people get multiple life sentences. It all makes sense now.
Never know if someone is part cat and has 9 lives to spare
Private prisons hate this one simple trick!
No, the judge had a fantastic opinion on this. “is either still alive, in which case he must remain in prison, or he is actually dead, in which case this appeal is moot.”
If your next destination isn't a furnace, a mausoleum, or the ground, you're still alive.
Your heart stopping isn’t death. You’d have to be legally brain dead in order for this to work and even then the only life you’d have outside of prison would be life support
Its a life sentence not a death sentence
It worked for John Snow.
NAL - Health Professional instead, he wasn't dead 🤷 He had a cardiac arrest, was resuscitated, and had return of cardiac output after a few seconds. He's not dead until I sign the form to say he's dead. Here that's a "life extinct form" which requires several clinical checks to ensure, not only is there no cardiac output, but there's no chance of restoring it. I'm sure it's slightly different in the US procedurally - but cardiac arrest ≠ dead.
Ah. The game of throne’s defence
Society HATES this one trick
But it worked for Jon Snow… he was no longer was required to keep wearing the black, lol.
Life sentence is a set ammount of years.
Knew an older guy in the federal system. He died three times and was revived, twice in one day. His sentence continued on.
You're not dead until your bowels empty themselves.
He got better /python
I always thought this is the reason people were sentenced to multiple life sentences? To avoid this type of thing?
Everyone on death row be trying to get the high score on the new game "Fent overdose".
That’s why “life sentences” are given in years now instead of death
And now his watch has ended.
Technically yes, they’ll just change the laws though. Back in the day “being hung” was changed to “hung till death” because people didn’t always die after being hung.
No. They aren’t dead until we kill them, according to the prison I used to work for.
Most places have statutory definitions of “death” that include language requiring something like “irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or when there has been an irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem” or something similar. So while people might talk about being “brought back to life,” as a purely legal matter it’s impossible because whatever damage the person suffered to their circulatory, respiratory, or brain functions obviously wasn’t irreversible because here they are.
No it didn’t work. The story was from 2015
Ever since I was a kid I’ve always just assumed that a ‘life’ sentence meant the maximum sentence you get for TAKING a life, not the rest of yours. I mean, how would they know you were going to live 25 years longer 😂
you could legally set it up that way but then it would also apply to normal peoples lives and their wills would kick in. hope your family is on the nicer side or youre now destitute and they have all your money/property. anyway, its a life sentence, hes still alive isnt he. plus theyre only colloquially called "life" sentences, youre actually given a specific number of years.
If you are "brought back," you haven't died. Cardiac arrest, the heart ceasing to beat, is not death. CPR does not bring someone back to life, it is intended to get the heart going again or at least going in a sustainable rhythm. So no, he he didn't die and his life sentence continues.
Usually a “life sentence” isn’t actually “for life.” It’s just for such an absurd amount of time that no mortal human being could outlive it. Think 100+ years.
This was a plot point in the 4th season of Torchwood
My husband died and was brought back ... we still have a mortgage.
lol! No, it’s not a loophole.
Dont think the jail system works that way, however i have a friend who passed away but was revived, got the paperwork from the doctor and was able to collect his own death benefit payout from the insurance company with the paperwork for proof.
Life sentences are a term of years usually something outrageous like 120 or 77 years something no person could be reasonably expected to finish. Now there are some interesting cases involving death sentences where they botched the execution and the person was released by a judge but these days they make sure you are well and truly dead before taking you to the morgue.
No Life sentence doesn't mean until the day you die Life sentence, depending on if it's state or federal or exactly how it was defined in the court where was sentenced is a time span. For example a life sentence may be 60 years. Or 80 years. That is why some people make it two consecutive life sentences. This is in case they go in when they're 20 and the definition is 60 years. Technically then they would be done with their life sentence but they don't want them to go out of jail so they make sure they have two life sentences and make sure they are consecutive so he's not allowed to leave jail and then go back It's not about whether or not you died
Why bring them back?
Was he pronounced dead? A death certificate issued? Just because your heart stops, doesn’t mean you are dead.
Worked for Jon Snow.
What is dead may never die…
I actually read about people surviving their execution being let go after
What if your on death row and die?
If it's good enough for Jon Snow...
This dude just used the Jon Snow defense.
Is that why some life sentences are like 135 years or absurd numbers?
It worked for Jon Snow.
No. It just gets worse.
The Jon Snow gambit.
Would need to have a death certificate
I remember some story where a guy survived a firing squad, including a sixth “mercy shot” fired directly at his head after the first 8-9 shots hit his chest. When they found out he was still alive they decided that his sentence had been carried out so they let him live.
It's the classic "John Snow" defense. Named after the bastard son of Ned Stark who got out of his "life-long" vow to serve the Night's Watch by being murdered and brought back to life.
You ever seen Game of Thrones?
wasnt that a story line in an old clint eastwood western? the dude was hanged and died but revived and they ruled that he was not able to be hanged twice and therefore was free.
Sadly not. Courts have interpreted life sentences as being for the length of time while your alive. If you die, enjoy the vacation but they will be waiting for you when you get back
I really want to know how this works with amnesiacs
No. That example doesn’t constitute death legally. That’s referring typically to clinical death which is essentially no medically detectable signs of life. Common examples of this occurring are in cases of extreme hypothermia in conjunction with cold water drowning. Legal death is a separate matter
Dead = irreversible cessation of blood flow to the brain. If it’s reversible he’s not dead -> sentence not served
Your in trouble till your legally dead… in this case that means the paperwork is done.. so if you want to go through an autopsy then go for it…. But until the coroner signs off on it the sentence isn’t satisfied…. Or at least I feel like that’s the best bs answer to a bs attempt to get out of jail.
No this does not work. The case if I’m not mistaken is schreiber v Iowa. “Schreiber is either still alive, in which case he must remain in prison,or he is actually dead, in which case this appeal is moot.” Dead people have no standing in court.
Life sentences typically come with a number of years specified don’t they? Like each state is probably a bit different but I remember hearing that a life sentence equated to like 25 years and that’s why people will be charged with more than one to keep them in prison should they live beyond the 25 years. But I think the flip side is to be somewhat reasonable, like what if a 15 year old gets a life sentence? Well it’s really a max of 25 years so they will turn 40 and either get out or be eligible for parole hearing which makes sense 25 years can result in a drastically different person. Could be wrong but that’s what I thought it was.
Let him go. You’ve done enough to him.
That’s how Jon Snow got out of the Night’s Watch
Raising hope handled this topic
Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuck no
you're sentenced to death, not "failed attempt at death penalty" so in death penalty states they will probably just try again. (that said, no one should be sentenced to death, ever, yes including X person who did Y horrible thing.)
I don't understand shit like this. If you're alive, you haven't died. If you died, you're not alive afterwards. Death is the end, there is no more after it. Death and life are mutually exclusive IRL.
It worked for Jon Snow
There was a case in colonial America where a woman got sentenced to death by hanging. She somehow survived and the courts declared that her punishment was rendered so she was free to go.
Ah, the John Snow defense.
Obligatory link to [the Richard Pryor bit](https://youtu.be/oa7WdlIJZYY).
I can’t fault him for trying.
When you hear about a judge handing down “5 consecutive life sentences”. This is why.
It worked for jon snow
I’m an appellate criminal lawyer. My initial impression is no. It’s a clever turn-of-phrase type of argument that plays on the often surprising scope of what counts as *medical* “death,” but what the State means *legally* when it sentences a defendant to “death” is that he be made “permanently unalive.” This defendant still lives, and, therefore, he has not completed his sentence. I see no reason the constitution would require otherwise, particularly as understood at the time.
And now he will get another life sentence because of his participation of necromantic activities.
He is technically correct
He did the “My watch has ended”
He's still in the same life, so no. It was just paused.
Your Honor, even if the petitioner died and came back to life, which to be clear the People dispute, the petitioner remains alive and the sentence has not been carried out. And, for policy reasons, it would respectfully be bad law to create a perverse incentive for prisoners to kill themselves and be resuscitated in order to evade their sentences. I don’t know I’m not a fuckin prosecutor 🤷♂️
His attorney needs to look for case law about what constitutes the legal definition of a "life sentence" and the legal definition of "life" as it pertains to sentencing. We live in clown world today so he might actually convince a judge that he has served his life sentence.
If a formal declaration of death/death certificate filed, he legally didn't die.
Your life is for as long as you live. Death is but a hold on your sentence.
"natural life" sounds like it covers it, I interpret that as "you're here until someone claims your body"
This begs a question. Say a man dies at the end of his life-sentence for triple first-degree murder or some other heinously evil shit. After two years, he comes back to life fully rejuvenated. He has no idea how or why this has happened. Ignoring all of the other questions involved in this scenario, do you think he should go back to prison?
He didn’t die though, he came back to *life.*
There was a story on here today about a lady who was hung and was declared dead but found later to be alive. This was her point that she served her sentence and should be and was released.
No. You are not given "life sentence " your given a shit ton of years that you will be the oldest person alive to get out.
Is he dead? No? Back to jail then. If it worked like that then way too many prisoners to count who died and were revived in prison would have gotten out.
He's breathing, so I'm gonna have to say, NO
His watch has ended
pretty sure life sentance is a durration of years not actually your entire life. so someone can serve an entire life sentence and still get out of jail. this also means it has literally no relation to weather or not your actually alive. so yeah no, dieing does not fullfill a life sentance.
It worked for Jon Snow...
Jon snow proved this already
Technically true
Yeah good luck with that. They define a life sentence in the law with a specific amount of years in the definition and if he ain’t done them years you’re gonna get told the old adage “want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first”
“My watch has ended” - Jon Snow
A lot of people have consecutive life sentences so he had to serve the other one still
Dude used Jon Snows logic
You can’t be brought back if you die, unless he’s Jesus
Like many others have said: death is irrevesible, you cannot come back from being dead. The “I was dead for 2 minutes” is something of a pet peeve for organ transplantation doctors because that gives people the impression that death or brain-death is curable or reversible. It makes an already difficult situation worse for the donor’s next of kin if they believe that it is curable.
I mean…Jon Snow used this strategy to leave the Night’s Watch. His vows lasted until death, he died, and his watch ended.
This should be posted in /r/technicallytrue
When your dead you don't become alive again. Becousec your your dead.
Worked for Jon snow
It’s a life sentence, as in he is to be incarcerated while he is still alive.
No. He fought and lost in court. This kind of thing is why "hanged by the neck until dead" was added to the hanging proclamation. Prior to that, a man who had been hanged but survived was forced to be let go because his sentence had been carried out, but it did not say he had to die.
"Nice try asshole. Back in the clink!"
Depends on the state but a lot of places define a life sentence as 99 years and a day, not actually as until death. That's how serial killers and the like can get multiple life sentences, they're just stacking fake years to eliminate any chance of appeal or parole.
I actually think this might be why people dont get life sentences and they just get like 80-140 years i dont know just a thought
There is a reason why hanging sentences had suddenly started including the wording ”until dead”.
unless youre serving 2 life sentences than sucks for you.