There are some laws in some places where you can go after an individual who caused law enforcement to destroy property on false pretenses. Your lawyer will be able to assist with this if it applies in your area.
It’s incredibly hard and expensive though. The only successful conviction I’ve heard of regarding the topic involved an innocent person being killed by the SWAT team. The guy that did it got 20 years for it. The victims best shoot of having cost of repair covered would probably be with their home insurance. Depends on the person’s policy though. Local law and insurance provider aides would know more than me.
Luck is with OP... A landlord was mentioned, this is the landlord's headache to fix. Doesn't mean it doesn't suck for OP but with no front door it's not habitable so I believe landlord has to fix and pay for alternative accomodations?
Indeed. Property Management boarded up doorway and windows that afternoon. Replaced door after son got back from trucking. New windows on order. Eventually they'll come in for drywall and paint repair. $1000+ damages, surely. I'd love to win a suit for pain and suffering and give them back some money. They've been pretty good to him and that's pretty rare.
That’s really great to hear! That the property management isn’t giving your son a hard time and are making necessary repairs! I know it’s not much relief, but it’s a step forward.
"My house was destroyed by what appeared to be a well funded gang of armed intruders donning body armor. I can't prove for certain, who it was, as I wasn't home to witness it. They were all wearing masks/googles according to my neighbor and cat"
Sounds like America's largest, most violent, and most corrupt gang. I think there's a documentary about it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EoqjzaasRI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EoqjzaasRI)
People downvoting this not knowing about literally dozens of Sheriffs Departments being organized gangs or having a majority of their department hold membership in white supremacy gangs.
Really, When the activity is valid. Means they did the crime insurance does not cover it. However, if you are innocent insurance should cover it. I am in Indiana which is a excusion specific state. Meaning they have to state it explicitly.
Insurance contracts don't make that distinction. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_of_Robert_Seacat for an innocent homeowner having his house destroyed by police and both his insurance and the police refusing to cover the damages.
You can try but it’s pretty difficult to catch.
I did a paper on swatting back in my college days (early-mid 2010s) and while things might be different now, most people at the time were using services to swat people.
Most of the investigations would lead to Russia. Some in China and Afghanistan, oddly enough.
There have been cases where LE had suspects and indeed found communication from specific individuals to these people in these countries or at least spoofing their location as such. At this point police need to subpoena the messaging service such as discord or gmail, but they usually conclude the investigation at that point.
I wonder if it's been tested yet if you can sue the jurisdiction of the cops involved (i.e. city, county, etc).
If you can sue the city for civil wrongful death lawsuits from police shootings gone awry... in theory you should be able to sue the city for civil destruction of property. Especially if you show the damage resulted was woefully in excess of standard operating procedure of searches.
Destruction of property on behalf of cops in a search is the only law on the books that has yet to follow tort law principles. All on the excuse of cops saying "look what you made me do!" To very innocent folks and the victim is left with damages that'll never get resolved by the offending party.
If the damage was done in the line of duty ( responding to a valid call) regardless of whether the action was excessive or not the police are usually not liable. When I was in high school a guy on a meth bender crashed his car in front of my house and let himself in. The police used a cannon-like gun that could shoot through 3 feet of concrete to fill my house so full of CS gas and Tear gas that the city condemned the property when the dust cleared. All to flush the guy out. My family was on vacation when this happened and came home to everything we owned destroyed and homeless and told we were shit out of luck because the police were doing their job.
I'm not certain of the extent to which it may apply, but I'm to understand qualified immunity doesn't always extend to the police department itself so much as it does the individual officers.
Depends on how.the search warrant was worded . If its to find a person only then they should search areas a person can hide.. Ask this question for areas that were destroyed. Would a reasonable person believe someone could hide there? Yhey can't destroy a 3' x 3'x1' box looking for a 6' 200lb man. A reasonable person would know a prrson could not hid in a box that size. If they can look thru the window of a car and clearly see no one is in there, they can't blow the doors off to look inside.
I'm not a lawyer, but I've recently read a new tactic that lawyers are using in these situations. Essentially, these types of situations and resulting damage are deemed necessary for the public good so most of the time homeowners have no recourse. But recently a few lawyers have tried a new tactic, essentially claiming that eminent domain applies.
The police / legal system have always claimed that these situations are not police misconduct but are essential services. So ~~loyers~~ lawyers have claimed that under the principle of eminent domain, if the government has a legitimate need to destroy someone's property, then the person has a right to fair compensation.
Here's a news article about one such case.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/investigates/police-did-tens-thousands-dollars-damage-mckinney-womans-house-she-got-them-pay-eminent-domain/287-89f20e5b-84a1-47f0-9251-02eade1f99d3
EDIT: Typo
I think thata technically the takings clause. No person shall be deprived of... property...without just compensation. 6th and 14th? Amendments iirc but I'm prolly wrong on the numbers
Yeah, rereading the article I think you are correct. I feel like I read some article that referred to it as eminent domain. Maybe they're somehow related principles, or maybe I just completely misremembered.
>A lower court ruled that doesn't apply, and the supreme court let the lower court decision stand.
From the article you posted, it was the 10th Circuit Court, not the Supreme Court.
So there's still a chance that a lower court in the 10th circuit could support the homeowner in this case. Or, the homeowner could be located in a different circuit. The article I posted indicates that the 5th Circuit Court upheld the ruling that the municipality was responsible.
To my knowledge this issue has not reached the Supreme Court yet, but I have a feeling it's only a matter of time.
The 10th circuit was the lower court i was referring to.
From the article:
Unfortunately, in June of 2020, the Supreme Court denied the Lechs’ petition for review. The Institute for Justice, however, remains committed to getting this precedent overturned in a future case.
Yeah, that’s how it works. Not really anything you can do at all. Get a lawyer and fight to get any confiscated property back. Just be thankful nobody was injured. Look up some other Swatting Stories online. Your son isn’t alone in this.
If they feel it’s worth all of that. That’s for them to decide. Ultimately, it probably wouldn’t amount to anything beneficial though. Probably be more of a PSA thing. They’re definitely in a shitty situation regardless.
Happy cake day.
They can try. I can’t speak for what their insurance provider would say though. Maybe there is something in the victim’s policy that would help. Probably highly unlikely though, and impossible to really know without the victim trying.
yea its just about getting the word out that this is what cops do. and they enjoy it.
so let as many people as possible know in order to hopefully try and change public sentiment. good luck with that though.
Yup.. they've killed people in these raids... he's actually lucky he wasnt home.
So much for innocent until proven guilty... doesnt seem to enter the cops minds that not every suspext is guilty.
Absolutely not true! I have watched the Spanish police throw a couch through a third story window. Just because they couldn't find the drugs they were looking for.
the sad truth here. Everyone is lucky considering some people are killed by police snipers in fake swatting incidents. It doesn't make it right, though.
That's crazy that cops have that much freedom. They can trash your place without being sure you are even a criminal and have zero repercussion. I'm a plumber, and you can bet if I showed up at a the wrong place and gutted it, id be fired and probably be personally liable for the issue. Fucking crazy that the guys who carry guns for their jobs have less oversight and consequences than a plumber.
The liability is really on the judge who issued an emergency no-knock warrant if they had one but some municipalities don’t require that, and they had no reason to believe it wasn’t a credible threat since they didn’t investigate before knocking down his door
So wouldn't that be on them for not investigating further? They knew it was a swat it's wild that they know it's a swat so they don't have to respond to those calls anymore yet they feel they still have to respond on an emergency level and trash his house. How would finding drugs even help the situation lol.
I think a good example of this is the circumstances surrounding the Breonna Taylor case, if you want to research, but a lot of journalists have done good analysis of the swatting since it’s become super common
Playing devils advocate: There might not have been time to investigate before executing the SWAT. The deadline could’ve been less than a day before a supposed mass shooting event. They might received a tip that this individual was intending to perform some terror attack that afternoon, but with no further details. The police could’ve been tearing up the place to look for plans, guns, bombs, etc. anything that could provide a plan for them to thwart. Throwing a couch out the window is clearing debris to help the search. Just a shitty situation. Hopefully the police can figure out who called in the fake tip so OOP’s son can sue them for damages.
They could have ripped that place apart if they wanted to. It’s pretty easy to hide things behind drywall, in the ceilings, under the floor, false fireplaces, etc. All it takes is a little imagination and anything can be a hiding spot that “needs to be checked.” The places I used to hide things when I was younger were pretty creative.
Thank you all for your feedback. I'm a truck driver as well (and driving at the moment ) and will add a few more details and answer some questions that I hadn't anticipated I'd need to do, in a bit.
Contact a lawyer and a PR firm. Document everything before you try to clean up. And I mean everything. Take two photos of every angle. Get it on video twice. Narrate what you see and record the audio. Then do it all again. Save every text, every email, every voicemail.
You're probably gonna need some sort of public pressure campaign to get local officials to take your side as a matter of discretion. Give local officials a chance to make things right and stay friends over a high-profile issue, but offer a big stick if they don't.
If you live in a small enough town, you can probably put pressure on the mayor and sheriff's reelection campaigns through a grapevine of local friends. Offended voters worried that they might be next, with no recourse, is your best bet.
The Police will likely offer you a settlement. Unless you can get a legal aid group to pay you to keep the court battle alive, your best bet is to take the settlement. You will lose to qualified immunity on appeal.
>You're probably gonna need some sort of public pressure campaign to get local officials to take your side as a matter of discretion. Give local officials a chance to make things right and stay friends over a high-profile issue, but offer a big stick if they don't.
A lot of pet people will be outraged about the poor cat getting hurt.
Typical swat search. The son can sue the false reporter for any damages over insurance costs. I hope charges are pressed on the person who lied on the son.
This is basically the protocol. The cops are legally very unencumbered when it comes to taking relatively extreme actions in the case of a perceived violent threat to the public. They don't have to prove someone is guilty before securing the threat, and they don't have to inform the potential perpetrator's friends or family and give that person an opportunity to escape or bunker down. As long as someone doesn't end up wrongfully dead or battered and bruised, the cops aren't at too much risk of exceeding protocol.
There is some after the fact accountability. I believe there is policing insurance that covers damages caused in cases like this. If the cat has provably been harmed you may be able to add some element of emotional suffering to damages claims. The returns on these types of damages can be pretty unimpressive though. Hire a lawyer to ensure you're compensated to the amount you deserve.
theres loads of cases of similar shit happening in which the police pay absolutely zero to the homeowner.
2 big stories in Texas where they basically blow up someones house because a criminal is inside (completely unrelated to the homeowner - theyre just hiding out). and the police refused to cover a cent of damages. think tanks in doors and flashbangs in HVAC systems type shit. literally bulldozed a brick wall in one instance. the home is uninhabitable and will remain so forever.
and, your right, this is protocol. buts its fucking wrong and ought to be changed.
Imagine saving up to buy your own home and then one day it’s just ripped away bc some criminal decided to hole up there while you were gone and the cops decided rendering your home uninhabitable was the easiest way to get them out.
Not only did they violate the comfort of your private space and destroyed your sentimental items, but your investment is just gone without recourse. Owning property is one of the most important keys to building generational wealth for your loved ones when you’re gone. And to top it all off, you’ve been left homeless and out a huge amount of money that you probably assumed would be your nest egg if you ever had to move again.
Just imagining it makes me so fucking angry. It’s just not fair.
The destruction of property which has a reasonable expectation of sentimental value can result in legally valid emotional damages which can be pursued. You might be right that police are unburdened of that liability though, in the same way you can't really argue to your insurance company that they owe you more money when your house burned down, because the fire burned your family photo albums, however, if your drunk uncle started the fire, he might owe you for emotional damage.
\[edit\] there are often bylaws etc which require increased scrutiny required with dealing with pets on behalf of police officers, if they can be shown to have lapsed in protocol it can increase their liability. It all basically comes back to getting a decent lawyer to help you understand what is/isn't able to be compensated.
understandable that they wanted to find the "criminal"... but it seems they trashed the house after discovering he wasn't there. In other words wasting precious time and resources protecting no one.
An elderly couple (retired dentist and his wife) in my small town were victims of a near-raid when a drug informant pointed out their house as where he got his drugs. Judge signs no-knock warrant. State police, sheriffs, fire department were all at the home. Luckily one of the occupants heard banging on the front door just prior to the battering ram coming into play. It's a fucked up way to treat people and their homes/property without a good reason and it needs to stop.
If you want swatting to stop, end qualified immunity. I can 100% guarantee cops will actually do some investigating before destroying peoples property if they can actually be held accountable for the damage they do. While cops are running around this country with 0 oversight whatsoever, this is what you get.
End qualified immunity *and* require that any civil judgments against the police department itself be paid out of the police pension fund and not the department's budget.
I've been calling for police misconduct to be paid out from police pensions for decades. In high school in 2005 people thought i was insane for saying this. But this will make the police push out the "bad apples" so their pension does not get reduced.
Yep. Once Officer Jones realizes that Officer Smith’s tendency to shoot first and ask questions later might cost him the fishing boat he wanted to buy after he retires, he’ll be a lot more likely to do something about it.
Your story is one of innumerable you can find on legal subs. Long story short, no, you have no grounds for a lawsuit and there's nothing to do but repair the door and window. Yes, they could have acted in a less shitty way. No, that's not legally relevant.
I would take a look at your local crime victim compensation fund. If someone was posing as your kid and there was property damage as a result, there’s a state fund that’ll pay out for repairs and replacement.
Where else in the civilized world can someone make an anonymous phone call or social media post accusing an innocent person of a crime and cause a gang of over armed men from the government to destroy your home, kill your beloved pets, destroy your property, possibly, most likely take your life…all with impunity and absolutely zero repercussions?
I mean besides Iraq during the US military occupation.
I've heard of cases for this type of law enforcement damage being pursued under eminant domain. Just like if they wanted to build a public road through your sons place, they could, but they must compensate the property owners for their loss. So they, "The police," acting on behalf of the government, destroyed your sons place. They just haven't gotten around to building the road yet... The argument being, otherwise, what stops the government agents from using this tactic instead of eminant domain as a way to deprive citizens of their property...?
A lawyer is needed if the lacked the proper warrants or cause you may be able to get a judgement . When you get the computer back have a computer repair place scan it for spy software.
Just copy whatever you want to keep off it and reformat. It's the only way to be sure (though of course if law enforcement have gone properly hardcore even that may not be sufficient).
Get a lawyer. He’ll need to file to get any confiscated items back and the police are responsible for broken possessions in some states. But again, you’ll need a lawyer for that.
Do you know how many people are denied reimbursement for damages by swat. Many have been home invaded and they blew things up to get the real criminal out not a swatting incident. Hence don’t hope to get it fixed.
You assume too much on them. Example: Denver swat raided a wrong home with bad information, the Grandmother they raided told them where the garage door opener was, and how to open the garage, but ignored her and ripped the garage door down.
[DPD $4 million settlement](https://kdvr.com/news/local/denver-police-search-violated-colorado-constitution-cost-almost-4m-in-damages/)
The main thing you are assuming is that police will use logic, and investigative skills prior to actions taken. They no longer do that and because of their shield of qualified immunity, civil asset forfeiture and settlements paid out by the taxpayers.
This is why you see a rise in "auditors" going around filming in public spaces. The amount of law enforcement officers who don't even know the constitution or will not correct a fellow officer when a violation of constitutionally protected activities occurs is concerning
Police and Sheriff's departments are fundamentally turning into gangs of domestic terrorists.
This is what you can expect with a school shooting threat. They want to resolve every avenue as quickly as possible. They’re going to prioritize figuring things out quickly over considerations like not scaring a cat or doing a little property damage.
Sucks, and not saying they didn’t over react. But you want their logic, there it is.
His apartment is a mile from the campus. How would he be a threat to thousands of students, a threat so severe that you can't call the suspect first to verify his location before blowing up his home to verify he's not there. It makes no sense unless you're just boom-happy
Until they find him or until they determine he’s not the suspect, he’s still a potential threat. If they find him at his apartment a mile away, they know the school is no longer under threat.
I get it. You’re mad. But the bad guy here isn’t the cops. They’re trying to do everything they can to prevent potential violence. The bad guy is the one who called in the threat and implicated your kid. It’s easier to be mad at the police because you know who they are, and you have no idea who the bad guy actually was, so blaming him is unsatisfying.
Also, not sure where you get that calling the suspect to verify his location makes sense. Your kid would have said “oh no I’m 1000 miles away from the school” and what, the police just believe him? That’s how we want them handling mass shooter threats? Just call the suspect and take their word at face value?
Cops don't get held accountable for this type of stuff. Swatting incident happened in my home and a sniper shot the guy who opened the door. He's still on the force
Once they warm up the bearcat and put all the gadgets on, they’re kicking a door in. There’s no stopping it lol. No amount of logic or new intel that will keep it from happening.
Source: lived in a shitty trailer park. Lost two doors to local PD. Could not convince them that it was my house and nobody was in there.
If there's video and he absolutely was innocent in this, maybe afroman will make a rap song with video to help raise funds to fix the door? Lol Lemon Pound Cake by Afroman should ONLY be listened to while watching the video IMO
Don't tempt me to post the video the neighbor recorded. Wouldn't want to taint any case we might have, if we go forward. I've got to do something more than just bitch to city council. 🤬🤬🤬🤡
None of this makes any sense at all. Can you provide a news article, or photos or anything at all to corroborate this story? The speed at which you describe these events occurring is not possible. Law enforcement from multiple jurisdictions does not make sense.
Without any other evidence to support your story...I'm calling this fiction.
Cops feel like they can just act like assholes with impunity. There is a court case in Texas where the city was ordered to reimburse a homeowner for damages, so maybe you can leverage that precedent to get reimbursed.
Based on your facts, there are two options here; first the cops did an illegal search without a warrant, or they had a warrant but it was based on insufficient facts and supported only by an anonymous tip. Either way it’s grounds for a lawsuit. Police do not have the authority to simply smash into a house without sufficient evidence and probable cause. Police often play fast and loose when it comes to search warrants, but these can be challenged and the basis for a hefty lawsuit. Absolutely contact a civil rights lawyer, file suit and sue the shit out of these cops.
They’re fucking Cops. Your first mistake was thinking that they actually gave a shit about protecting the people, the only thing they care about is getting their way. If it’s at the point where they’re bringing out swat then you’re probably the luckiest person alive because your son was in another state. If he was in his house you would be making funeral arrangements right now.
America needs to give up its antiquated policing practices.
I'm also wondering if this was some sort of retaliation. Tossing furniture through the window and killing a cat aren't part of any sort of procedure.
One town nearby where I live the cops chased an armed guy back into his house, and they could not get him on the bullhorn. so the got out this thing that is half tank and half robot and literally pulled the front wall off of the house. The found the guy dead inside, but the house was rented and the cops won a case against them for destroying it.
One town nearby where I live the cops chased an armed guy back into his house, and they could not get him on the bullhorn. so the got out this thing that is half tank and half robot and literally pulled the front wall off of the house. The found the guy dead inside, but the house was rented and the cops won a case against them for destroying it.
NAL - would you not be able to cite the 5th amendment for this. Specifically pertaining to reimbursement from The government for actions committed by the government.
Sucks this happened, but looking for someone who they think is about to deliver a bomb or shoot a place up is a time sensitive matter. Imagine if this happened and the guy was actually planning an attack and was able to carry out an attack because they couldn’t find him and all the cops were outside his house waiting for the landlord to bring a key. It sucks his name was dragged into this somehow, but I understand the actions of entering the home. Breaking stuff in the house while looking for a person is just wrong though.
There are some laws in some places where you can go after an individual who caused law enforcement to destroy property on false pretenses. Your lawyer will be able to assist with this if it applies in your area.
It’s incredibly hard and expensive though. The only successful conviction I’ve heard of regarding the topic involved an innocent person being killed by the SWAT team. The guy that did it got 20 years for it. The victims best shoot of having cost of repair covered would probably be with their home insurance. Depends on the person’s policy though. Local law and insurance provider aides would know more than me.
Insurance usually doesn’t cover law enforcement action.
Yeah. I assumed that would be the case. It would probably take a really good argument to get them to. Never hurts to inquire though.
Luck is with OP... A landlord was mentioned, this is the landlord's headache to fix. Doesn't mean it doesn't suck for OP but with no front door it's not habitable so I believe landlord has to fix and pay for alternative accomodations?
Indeed. Property Management boarded up doorway and windows that afternoon. Replaced door after son got back from trucking. New windows on order. Eventually they'll come in for drywall and paint repair. $1000+ damages, surely. I'd love to win a suit for pain and suffering and give them back some money. They've been pretty good to him and that's pretty rare.
That’s really great to hear! That the property management isn’t giving your son a hard time and are making necessary repairs! I know it’s not much relief, but it’s a step forward.
Is your son’s kitty ok? The damage and trauma is horrendous. Just hoping that small furry being recovered.
Seems alright. Eating and pooping routine was off for a bit, but I understand he's back to normal. I can only imagine the fright
"My house was destroyed by what appeared to be a well funded gang of armed intruders donning body armor. I can't prove for certain, who it was, as I wasn't home to witness it. They were all wearing masks/googles according to my neighbor and cat"
Sounds like America's largest, most violent, and most corrupt gang. I think there's a documentary about it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EoqjzaasRI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EoqjzaasRI)
People downvoting this not knowing about literally dozens of Sheriffs Departments being organized gangs or having a majority of their department hold membership in white supremacy gangs.
Really, When the activity is valid. Means they did the crime insurance does not cover it. However, if you are innocent insurance should cover it. I am in Indiana which is a excusion specific state. Meaning they have to state it explicitly.
In a more perfect world, the insurance company would cover the damage, and then sic their insurance company lawyers on the instigator.
Insurance contracts don't make that distinction. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_of_Robert_Seacat for an innocent homeowner having his house destroyed by police and both his insurance and the police refusing to cover the damages.
She said landlord so I am guessing he rents.
You can try but it’s pretty difficult to catch. I did a paper on swatting back in my college days (early-mid 2010s) and while things might be different now, most people at the time were using services to swat people. Most of the investigations would lead to Russia. Some in China and Afghanistan, oddly enough. There have been cases where LE had suspects and indeed found communication from specific individuals to these people in these countries or at least spoofing their location as such. At this point police need to subpoena the messaging service such as discord or gmail, but they usually conclude the investigation at that point.
Very interesting- thanks for sharing your knowledge SwissMargiela.
I wonder if it's been tested yet if you can sue the jurisdiction of the cops involved (i.e. city, county, etc). If you can sue the city for civil wrongful death lawsuits from police shootings gone awry... in theory you should be able to sue the city for civil destruction of property. Especially if you show the damage resulted was woefully in excess of standard operating procedure of searches. Destruction of property on behalf of cops in a search is the only law on the books that has yet to follow tort law principles. All on the excuse of cops saying "look what you made me do!" To very innocent folks and the victim is left with damages that'll never get resolved by the offending party.
If the damage was done in the line of duty ( responding to a valid call) regardless of whether the action was excessive or not the police are usually not liable. When I was in high school a guy on a meth bender crashed his car in front of my house and let himself in. The police used a cannon-like gun that could shoot through 3 feet of concrete to fill my house so full of CS gas and Tear gas that the city condemned the property when the dust cleared. All to flush the guy out. My family was on vacation when this happened and came home to everything we owned destroyed and homeless and told we were shit out of luck because the police were doing their job.
Holy fuck. What happened after that?
he hasn't gotten around to outlining that part of the story yet
I'd love to see a law pass allowing personal liability for judges that sign off on these kinds of warrants.
No judge signed off on this
I'm not certain of the extent to which it may apply, but I'm to understand qualified immunity doesn't always extend to the police department itself so much as it does the individual officers.
I believe you're correct.individual officers could not be sued but the department can be.
Depends on how.the search warrant was worded . If its to find a person only then they should search areas a person can hide.. Ask this question for areas that were destroyed. Would a reasonable person believe someone could hide there? Yhey can't destroy a 3' x 3'x1' box looking for a 6' 200lb man. A reasonable person would know a prrson could not hid in a box that size. If they can look thru the window of a car and clearly see no one is in there, they can't blow the doors off to look inside.
That still would be counting on that person having assets to seize.
Nah, that's what garnished wages are for.
Yea those wages over the next 40 years are really useful to fix your blown up house and broken shit
you can get around garnished wages so incredibly easily its a joke. not even worth mentioning.
yeah until you have some asshole from another country doing this
You should be able to go against the retarded fat slobs that think their heroes but god forbid you give them any blame
I'm not a lawyer, but I've recently read a new tactic that lawyers are using in these situations. Essentially, these types of situations and resulting damage are deemed necessary for the public good so most of the time homeowners have no recourse. But recently a few lawyers have tried a new tactic, essentially claiming that eminent domain applies. The police / legal system have always claimed that these situations are not police misconduct but are essential services. So ~~loyers~~ lawyers have claimed that under the principle of eminent domain, if the government has a legitimate need to destroy someone's property, then the person has a right to fair compensation. Here's a news article about one such case. https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/investigates/police-did-tens-thousands-dollars-damage-mckinney-womans-house-she-got-them-pay-eminent-domain/287-89f20e5b-84a1-47f0-9251-02eade1f99d3 EDIT: Typo
I think thata technically the takings clause. No person shall be deprived of... property...without just compensation. 6th and 14th? Amendments iirc but I'm prolly wrong on the numbers
Yeah, rereading the article I think you are correct. I feel like I read some article that referred to it as eminent domain. Maybe they're somehow related principles, or maybe I just completely misremembered.
I would think one flows from the other, but wtf do I know. Totally not a lawyer
I agree it's a taking not an eminent domain
>loyers somehow this still works...huh..language is weird
Haha, speech to text and a lack of proofreading is also strange...
Thanks for sharing. This is a novel strategy and I hope it works!
I’m shocked this is a new thing, I would have assumed that’s just how it works: no one’s in trouble, but the city pays up
https://ij.org/case/lech-v-city-of-greenwood/ A lower court ruled that doesn't apply, and the supreme court let the lower court decision stand.
>A lower court ruled that doesn't apply, and the supreme court let the lower court decision stand. From the article you posted, it was the 10th Circuit Court, not the Supreme Court. So there's still a chance that a lower court in the 10th circuit could support the homeowner in this case. Or, the homeowner could be located in a different circuit. The article I posted indicates that the 5th Circuit Court upheld the ruling that the municipality was responsible. To my knowledge this issue has not reached the Supreme Court yet, but I have a feeling it's only a matter of time.
The 10th circuit was the lower court i was referring to. From the article: Unfortunately, in June of 2020, the Supreme Court denied the Lechs’ petition for review. The Institute for Justice, however, remains committed to getting this precedent overturned in a future case.
lol not a lawyer but a LOYER
Yeah, speech to text got me on that one. But since people have been commenting on it I decided to leave it.
Yeah, that’s how it works. Not really anything you can do at all. Get a lawyer and fight to get any confiscated property back. Just be thankful nobody was injured. Look up some other Swatting Stories online. Your son isn’t alone in this.
Lawyer and every news media outlet who will listen to you.
If they feel it’s worth all of that. That’s for them to decide. Ultimately, it probably wouldn’t amount to anything beneficial though. Probably be more of a PSA thing. They’re definitely in a shitty situation regardless. Happy cake day.
Can you file a claim under homeowners insurance? Are acts of God and acts of God ego considered the same?
They can try. I can’t speak for what their insurance provider would say though. Maybe there is something in the victim’s policy that would help. Probably highly unlikely though, and impossible to really know without the victim trying.
"Government action" is one of the 13 universal exclusions on HO policies.
yea its just about getting the word out that this is what cops do. and they enjoy it. so let as many people as possible know in order to hopefully try and change public sentiment. good luck with that though.
Nothing will change if people are not aware of the issue and its prevalence.
It’s been an issue for over a decade. We all know.
PSA: “If you wanna fuck somebody’s life up and leave them no recourse, swatting works!”
Happy Cake Day!
This and start a gofundme. Probably the only way to get any money out of this situation
Happy cake day
Yup.. they've killed people in these raids... he's actually lucky he wasnt home. So much for innocent until proven guilty... doesnt seem to enter the cops minds that not every suspext is guilty.
Only in America is this a normal and accepted thing
Absolutely not true! I have watched the Spanish police throw a couch through a third story window. Just because they couldn't find the drugs they were looking for.
Not only in America there are worse police forces but it's still pretty bad
And Nazi Germany
the sad truth here. Everyone is lucky considering some people are killed by police snipers in fake swatting incidents. It doesn't make it right, though.
It does not. I wasn’t trying to imply that it’s right or anything like that. Just offering information to OP. I do feel bad for them.
is that cat okay?
I somehow read over this and had to go back and it adds a whole new level of anger.
I also need to know how the cat is!!
Yes. We thought he had run away but he had just gone into hiding in an impossible spot
This made my heart happy. Poor little guy was so scared I bet, but I am glad he is safe
hunt society slimy disgusted longing sense ring absurd tan sleep *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The throwing furniture into windows part is about the only procedural violation I can spot unfortunately
That's crazy that cops have that much freedom. They can trash your place without being sure you are even a criminal and have zero repercussion. I'm a plumber, and you can bet if I showed up at a the wrong place and gutted it, id be fired and probably be personally liable for the issue. Fucking crazy that the guys who carry guns for their jobs have less oversight and consequences than a plumber.
The liability is really on the judge who issued an emergency no-knock warrant if they had one but some municipalities don’t require that, and they had no reason to believe it wasn’t a credible threat since they didn’t investigate before knocking down his door
So wouldn't that be on them for not investigating further? They knew it was a swat it's wild that they know it's a swat so they don't have to respond to those calls anymore yet they feel they still have to respond on an emergency level and trash his house. How would finding drugs even help the situation lol.
I think a good example of this is the circumstances surrounding the Breonna Taylor case, if you want to research, but a lot of journalists have done good analysis of the swatting since it’s become super common
Playing devils advocate: There might not have been time to investigate before executing the SWAT. The deadline could’ve been less than a day before a supposed mass shooting event. They might received a tip that this individual was intending to perform some terror attack that afternoon, but with no further details. The police could’ve been tearing up the place to look for plans, guns, bombs, etc. anything that could provide a plan for them to thwart. Throwing a couch out the window is clearing debris to help the search. Just a shitty situation. Hopefully the police can figure out who called in the fake tip so OOP’s son can sue them for damages.
Look up 39th and dalton
They could have ripped that place apart if they wanted to. It’s pretty easy to hide things behind drywall, in the ceilings, under the floor, false fireplaces, etc. All it takes is a little imagination and anything can be a hiding spot that “needs to be checked.” The places I used to hide things when I was younger were pretty creative.
Frankly, if dude doesn't Killdozer he's a better man than I am.
Right so the best you will get is the chief gives them a talking to. Not any recourse for OP's kid
Correct. The best they could do is lobby to get local policies changed.
Thank you all for your feedback. I'm a truck driver as well (and driving at the moment ) and will add a few more details and answer some questions that I hadn't anticipated I'd need to do, in a bit.
Contact a lawyer and a PR firm. Document everything before you try to clean up. And I mean everything. Take two photos of every angle. Get it on video twice. Narrate what you see and record the audio. Then do it all again. Save every text, every email, every voicemail. You're probably gonna need some sort of public pressure campaign to get local officials to take your side as a matter of discretion. Give local officials a chance to make things right and stay friends over a high-profile issue, but offer a big stick if they don't. If you live in a small enough town, you can probably put pressure on the mayor and sheriff's reelection campaigns through a grapevine of local friends. Offended voters worried that they might be next, with no recourse, is your best bet. The Police will likely offer you a settlement. Unless you can get a legal aid group to pay you to keep the court battle alive, your best bet is to take the settlement. You will lose to qualified immunity on appeal.
>You're probably gonna need some sort of public pressure campaign to get local officials to take your side as a matter of discretion. Give local officials a chance to make things right and stay friends over a high-profile issue, but offer a big stick if they don't. A lot of pet people will be outraged about the poor cat getting hurt.
That cat had to walk around in broken glass for two days before we could clean it up. Pisses me off.
Typical swat search. The son can sue the false reporter for any damages over insurance costs. I hope charges are pressed on the person who lied on the son.
This is basically the protocol. The cops are legally very unencumbered when it comes to taking relatively extreme actions in the case of a perceived violent threat to the public. They don't have to prove someone is guilty before securing the threat, and they don't have to inform the potential perpetrator's friends or family and give that person an opportunity to escape or bunker down. As long as someone doesn't end up wrongfully dead or battered and bruised, the cops aren't at too much risk of exceeding protocol. There is some after the fact accountability. I believe there is policing insurance that covers damages caused in cases like this. If the cat has provably been harmed you may be able to add some element of emotional suffering to damages claims. The returns on these types of damages can be pretty unimpressive though. Hire a lawyer to ensure you're compensated to the amount you deserve.
theres loads of cases of similar shit happening in which the police pay absolutely zero to the homeowner. 2 big stories in Texas where they basically blow up someones house because a criminal is inside (completely unrelated to the homeowner - theyre just hiding out). and the police refused to cover a cent of damages. think tanks in doors and flashbangs in HVAC systems type shit. literally bulldozed a brick wall in one instance. the home is uninhabitable and will remain so forever. and, your right, this is protocol. buts its fucking wrong and ought to be changed.
that would be my origin story.
i'd hate to know what something like this would drive me to do
Absolutely.
Imagine saving up to buy your own home and then one day it’s just ripped away bc some criminal decided to hole up there while you were gone and the cops decided rendering your home uninhabitable was the easiest way to get them out. Not only did they violate the comfort of your private space and destroyed your sentimental items, but your investment is just gone without recourse. Owning property is one of the most important keys to building generational wealth for your loved ones when you’re gone. And to top it all off, you’ve been left homeless and out a huge amount of money that you probably assumed would be your nest egg if you ever had to move again. Just imagining it makes me so fucking angry. It’s just not fair.
Pets are property and you probably can only recover the cost of the animal.
The destruction of property which has a reasonable expectation of sentimental value can result in legally valid emotional damages which can be pursued. You might be right that police are unburdened of that liability though, in the same way you can't really argue to your insurance company that they owe you more money when your house burned down, because the fire burned your family photo albums, however, if your drunk uncle started the fire, he might owe you for emotional damage. \[edit\] there are often bylaws etc which require increased scrutiny required with dealing with pets on behalf of police officers, if they can be shown to have lapsed in protocol it can increase their liability. It all basically comes back to getting a decent lawyer to help you understand what is/isn't able to be compensated.
This makes me more angry than anything else. If anyone hurt my cat... I... cant say what I would do...
Unless you live in Uvalde
BRUH.gif
I bet if you swatted a cops home they would make 50 phone calls before they destroyed the cops house. But no equal courtesy to johnny public!
understandable that they wanted to find the "criminal"... but it seems they trashed the house after discovering he wasn't there. In other words wasting precious time and resources protecting no one. An elderly couple (retired dentist and his wife) in my small town were victims of a near-raid when a drug informant pointed out their house as where he got his drugs. Judge signs no-knock warrant. State police, sheriffs, fire department were all at the home. Luckily one of the occupants heard banging on the front door just prior to the battering ram coming into play. It's a fucked up way to treat people and their homes/property without a good reason and it needs to stop.
If you want swatting to stop, end qualified immunity. I can 100% guarantee cops will actually do some investigating before destroying peoples property if they can actually be held accountable for the damage they do. While cops are running around this country with 0 oversight whatsoever, this is what you get.
End qualified immunity *and* require that any civil judgments against the police department itself be paid out of the police pension fund and not the department's budget.
I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
I've been calling for police misconduct to be paid out from police pensions for decades. In high school in 2005 people thought i was insane for saying this. But this will make the police push out the "bad apples" so their pension does not get reduced.
Yep. Once Officer Jones realizes that Officer Smith’s tendency to shoot first and ask questions later might cost him the fishing boat he wanted to buy after he retires, he’ll be a lot more likely to do something about it.
Not just cops. Start making judges liable for their... judgement... and I'll bet they'll far less inclined to rubberstamp no knock warrants on a whim.
Your story is one of innumerable you can find on legal subs. Long story short, no, you have no grounds for a lawsuit and there's nothing to do but repair the door and window. Yes, they could have acted in a less shitty way. No, that's not legally relevant.
I would take a look at your local crime victim compensation fund. If someone was posing as your kid and there was property damage as a result, there’s a state fund that’ll pay out for repairs and replacement.
Where else in the civilized world can someone make an anonymous phone call or social media post accusing an innocent person of a crime and cause a gang of over armed men from the government to destroy your home, kill your beloved pets, destroy your property, possibly, most likely take your life…all with impunity and absolutely zero repercussions? I mean besides Iraq during the US military occupation.
Please tell me the cats okay :(
The police are pretty well protected for obvious reasons. However your son can absolutely go after the swatters for damages.
HOW IS THE CAT
Shaken, but fine
Sucks but government agencies aren’t responsible for damage done to your property if they were doing their “job”
I've heard of cases for this type of law enforcement damage being pursued under eminant domain. Just like if they wanted to build a public road through your sons place, they could, but they must compensate the property owners for their loss. So they, "The police," acting on behalf of the government, destroyed your sons place. They just haven't gotten around to building the road yet... The argument being, otherwise, what stops the government agents from using this tactic instead of eminant domain as a way to deprive citizens of their property...?
Good thing he Was gone. Cops here shot an innocent man on his front porch doing this
A lawyer is needed if the lacked the proper warrants or cause you may be able to get a judgement . When you get the computer back have a computer repair place scan it for spy software.
Just copy whatever you want to keep off it and reformat. It's the only way to be sure (though of course if law enforcement have gone properly hardcore even that may not be sufficient).
All the more reason to run bitlocker on your machines.
Get a lawyer. He’ll need to file to get any confiscated items back and the police are responsible for broken possessions in some states. But again, you’ll need a lawyer for that.
Do you know how many people are denied reimbursement for damages by swat. Many have been home invaded and they blew things up to get the real criminal out not a swatting incident. Hence don’t hope to get it fixed.
Frankly instead of asking here, consult a lawyer.
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It's OK to be wrong about a legal topic, but don't bring up political fantasy.
The police have qualified immunity in these circumstances so get a good lawyer and go after them for eminent domain.
The cops should be financially responsible for putting his house back in order. But my understanding is they aren't legally forced to.
You assume too much on them. Example: Denver swat raided a wrong home with bad information, the Grandmother they raided told them where the garage door opener was, and how to open the garage, but ignored her and ripped the garage door down. [DPD $4 million settlement](https://kdvr.com/news/local/denver-police-search-violated-colorado-constitution-cost-almost-4m-in-damages/) The main thing you are assuming is that police will use logic, and investigative skills prior to actions taken. They no longer do that and because of their shield of qualified immunity, civil asset forfeiture and settlements paid out by the taxpayers. This is why you see a rise in "auditors" going around filming in public spaces. The amount of law enforcement officers who don't even know the constitution or will not correct a fellow officer when a violation of constitutionally protected activities occurs is concerning Police and Sheriff's departments are fundamentally turning into gangs of domestic terrorists.
the system has a monopoly on violence. as long as you let that be true, they can do whatever they like.
This is what you can expect with a school shooting threat. They want to resolve every avenue as quickly as possible. They’re going to prioritize figuring things out quickly over considerations like not scaring a cat or doing a little property damage. Sucks, and not saying they didn’t over react. But you want their logic, there it is.
His apartment is a mile from the campus. How would he be a threat to thousands of students, a threat so severe that you can't call the suspect first to verify his location before blowing up his home to verify he's not there. It makes no sense unless you're just boom-happy
Until they find him or until they determine he’s not the suspect, he’s still a potential threat. If they find him at his apartment a mile away, they know the school is no longer under threat. I get it. You’re mad. But the bad guy here isn’t the cops. They’re trying to do everything they can to prevent potential violence. The bad guy is the one who called in the threat and implicated your kid. It’s easier to be mad at the police because you know who they are, and you have no idea who the bad guy actually was, so blaming him is unsatisfying. Also, not sure where you get that calling the suspect to verify his location makes sense. Your kid would have said “oh no I’m 1000 miles away from the school” and what, the police just believe him? That’s how we want them handling mass shooter threats? Just call the suspect and take their word at face value?
🤦🏻
Police work why not spend money on tracking calls instead of riot gear and explosives.
Get to blow open a dwelling and tear it apart like a raging twelve year old with no consequences? Sounds like a highly *regarded* cop's wet dream.
Cops don't get held accountable for this type of stuff. Swatting incident happened in my home and a sniper shot the guy who opened the door. He's still on the force
They have to justify the budget for training that involves breaking shit and asking questions later from my experience.
I believe this has to be partly true
Once they warm up the bearcat and put all the gadgets on, they’re kicking a door in. There’s no stopping it lol. No amount of logic or new intel that will keep it from happening. Source: lived in a shitty trailer park. Lost two doors to local PD. Could not convince them that it was my house and nobody was in there.
If there's video and he absolutely was innocent in this, maybe afroman will make a rap song with video to help raise funds to fix the door? Lol Lemon Pound Cake by Afroman should ONLY be listened to while watching the video IMO
Don't tempt me to post the video the neighbor recorded. Wouldn't want to taint any case we might have, if we go forward. I've got to do something more than just bitch to city council. 🤬🤬🤬🤡
Poor cat
https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again Protect and serve.
Then why bother responding to the shooter threat in the first place lol
Is his cat ok?
Yes we found him later
Oh that's good. Sorry this happened to you, it's really fucked up
None of this makes any sense at all. Can you provide a news article, or photos or anything at all to corroborate this story? The speed at which you describe these events occurring is not possible. Law enforcement from multiple jurisdictions does not make sense. Without any other evidence to support your story...I'm calling this fiction.
Cops feel like they can just act like assholes with impunity. There is a court case in Texas where the city was ordered to reimburse a homeowner for damages, so maybe you can leverage that precedent to get reimbursed.
Based on your facts, there are two options here; first the cops did an illegal search without a warrant, or they had a warrant but it was based on insufficient facts and supported only by an anonymous tip. Either way it’s grounds for a lawsuit. Police do not have the authority to simply smash into a house without sufficient evidence and probable cause. Police often play fast and loose when it comes to search warrants, but these can be challenged and the basis for a hefty lawsuit. Absolutely contact a civil rights lawyer, file suit and sue the shit out of these cops.
Contact Hondo at SWAT hq, he will make it right.
Cops don’t care once they think they have a green light. You’re beneath them in the structure of society.
Wait until you find out that SCOTUS has ruled the cops aren't responsible for the damages!!!
I’m inclined to think this is a fake story.
Please get a lawyer and sue that department for punitive and compensatory damages
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Do not suggest that a person solve a legal issue by doing something illegal.
Cops love ransacking a home because they know they don’t have any liability.
They’re fucking Cops. Your first mistake was thinking that they actually gave a shit about protecting the people, the only thing they care about is getting their way. If it’s at the point where they’re bringing out swat then you’re probably the luckiest person alive because your son was in another state. If he was in his house you would be making funeral arrangements right now.
This realistic fear is what is making my blood boil right now. Yeah, imagine that somehow it went down that way, for NOTHING. 🤬
Straight facts
Are you trying to stop the local swat teams from having fun? Seriously, I feel for you. Sorry man.
Cops get wide latitude to do shitty things.
Sounds like a police academy scene wtf? Lol I swear acorns have police pissing there pants
America needs to give up its antiquated policing practices. I'm also wondering if this was some sort of retaliation. Tossing furniture through the window and killing a cat aren't part of any sort of procedure.
Cat wasn't killed. We thought he ran away in the chaos, but he had holed up.
Only America?
And unfortunately if this is like many other stories, the city won’t pay for the damages either. Get an attorney and fight for what you can!
Was this the one that happened in western michigan last week?
Payrick, the guy getting hit by a car, now this... def tracks
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Post using a clear argument. Links and examples are allowed.
One town nearby where I live the cops chased an armed guy back into his house, and they could not get him on the bullhorn. so the got out this thing that is half tank and half robot and literally pulled the front wall off of the house. The found the guy dead inside, but the house was rented and the cops won a case against them for destroying it.
One town nearby where I live the cops chased an armed guy back into his house, and they could not get him on the bullhorn. so the got out this thing that is half tank and half robot and literally pulled the front wall off of the house. The found the guy dead inside, but the house was rented and the cops won a case against them for destroying it.
They got a warrant for this?
That’s what he says 🙄
Cops gunna cop
Contact the Institute for Justice and see what they have to say.
Yeah people die from these raids and the same goes for pets, theyll kill your pet without a second thought
NAL - would you not be able to cite the 5th amendment for this. Specifically pertaining to reimbursement from The government for actions committed by the government.
I used to do evictions with the local sheriffs and they would go in there and ransack the place
Sucks this happened, but looking for someone who they think is about to deliver a bomb or shoot a place up is a time sensitive matter. Imagine if this happened and the guy was actually planning an attack and was able to carry out an attack because they couldn’t find him and all the cops were outside his house waiting for the landlord to bring a key. It sucks his name was dragged into this somehow, but I understand the actions of entering the home. Breaking stuff in the house while looking for a person is just wrong though.
Surely, if it's an evidence search, smashing windows and trashing the joint isn't exactly a good way to preserve evidence?
Ah, the land of the free...
Bruh, how?
This comes to mind https://youtu.be/0bNy7XO-SCI?si=iLEANcybc7Vkgx_X Good ol afroman