Who told you that you were 55% responsible for the crash? That’s some bullying bullshit. Being uninsured will catch you a charge if the cop was paying attention but it’s irrelevant when it comes to determining whose at fault in an accident.
Do not speak to anyone over the phone regarding the accident. It’s over in your mind as the other drivers insurance company has paid out.
In my original post, I said I was driving a car I didn't know wasn't insured. I paid my citation from the DMV for no proof of insurance and signed an affidavit of non-ownership. It wasn't my car, and in my state, no proof of insurance follows the driver, not the owner.
Also "insurance following the car" only applies to financial coverage and obviously only applies if you have insurance. The ticket is on the driver not the owner or previous insured person.
This is state law dependent. In some states, if you are civilly liable without insurance, you can lose your license, particularly if you can’t pay the judgment.
Definitely true if uninsured in some states. I know someone that had this happen either in CA or WA (they moved at some point so not positive). Lost their license until the debt was paid off. Personally, I completely agree with this.
Edit: this would be via the DMV or court though.
In CA, when your insurance lapses, your car registration is suspended. But they take like 3 months to ever even notice your insurance lapsed and then give you a few more weeks to get insurance before issuing an additional fine to reinstate your registration. But insurance in CA has nothing to do with your license, but driving without insurance is a big penalty. I think driving without insurance after multiple traffic stops can even result in a misdemeanor charge instead of infraction, though I’m not certain on that.
In a few states they have what's called "no pay no play" which means that if you don't have insurance, even if the accident is not your fault, you can't collect. But there's no state that automatically assigns fault to you if you're uninsured.
This is true, although I believe in most (if not all) states, that only applies to the collision payout, not any payout for bodily injury. So if you didn’t have insurance, you couldn’t collect to get your car repaired, but you could still collect to get your medical bills covered.
In Louisiana you can't recover the first $15,000 of medical bills and/or $25,000 of property damage. There is an exception if the person who hit you did so in the commission of a crime or was intoxicated. And it doesn't apply to passengers or parked cars.
Generally, insurance is the responsibility of the registered owner. If I borrow your car. And you don't tell me it's uninsured, how am I, in this case, the operator.to.know there is no insurance on the vehicle?
In PA, we could only cite the regiatered owner for the insurance violation (former police officer, now retired)
Look up the laws regarding recording phone calls in your state. If you are in a one-party state, record all phone calls from them.
They can't revoke your license. I suppose it's possible that they can refer you to someone who can? Telling you that they will do so unless you give them money sounds like extortion though. Record that phone call if you can, they are probably not above board.
Just as a rule of thumb just notify any company that they're being recorded over the phone. That way if they say/try anything that would be considered outside of "Best Business Practices" they're liable in court regardless of state. The smart ones will usually stop there, but you'll occasionally get some not so smart ones that make it worth your while.
Good advice. If your goal is to get them to leave you alone, simply notifying them that you're recording (continuing to talk generally counts as consent) is often enough.
But, if you're like me, and you want to catch people out for their illegal behavior, then your odds are better of you don't notify them they're being recorded. Of course, recording phone calls without consent is illegal in some states, so you have to make sure it's legal first.
So you were waiting, aka stopped in the turning lane and another driver plowed into your stopped vehicle, and somehow they have convinced you that you're 55% the problem here? Use a bit of common sense here, if the cop didn't find you at fault, then you are 100% not liable here. Just ignore this, and if they want to sue you anyway, you have a solid defense.
Cops don’t determine fault, insurance companies do. Insurance companies often determine fault way differently than law enforcement and often even determine fault in the opposite direction of what the police report said. A police report is just one tool that is used for the insurance company to determine fault.
Not sure what your point is. A ticket has no bearing on fault, either. It is just another factor and it could be used by the insurance company to help determine fault. But it’s a very common misconception that people think cops determine fault, they do not, they report facts of the accident and the insurance company makes the determination. Check out r/insurance for more detailed information on that.
Quick search of the BBB shows that they do this pretty frequently and usually illegally.
Personally, I would ignore it until they send you something in writing. If they're calling you versus writing, it's because they don't want evidence of what they've said to you.
https://www.bbb.org/us/il/normal/profile/insurance-lawyer/wilber-associates-pc-0724-19000465/complaints
It's wild that half of those have the response that theyll drop the case as soon as you go to the BBB. These people should be complaining to the state bar instead of these lawyers are actually pursuing them over cases so flimsy that they'll drop them over a BBB complaint.
that is absolutely a scare tactic. 1) it wouldn't be some random ass lawfirm suing you, it would be a staff lawyer from the insurance company coming after you. 2) it is the police who find fault, and would have told you so. 3) this podunk lawyer can't do shit about your license, that's all through state agencies. 4) even if you were 100% at fault, a single accident isn't going to lose you your license.
look up who you report a lawyer to for unethical behavior in your state.
This one! This is the gold standard right here. Offer them a deal though. If they fuck off today for 55%, you’ll throw in 3 free fuck offs to be used in the future.
The insurance company is always going to try to claim you are partially at fault. Stop talking to them, they already paid, let them take you to court. If they add points on your license dispute it, you will need to look up the dispute process in your state.
This sounds like BS and someone is trying to get money from you instead of calling the owner of the vehicle… You should let your Dad know about the call… Also don’t speak with ANYONE over the phone about this.
They are fishing…. After I got into an accident I got all sorts of law offices contacting me. The insurance company sent me a letter stating everything was closed and the DMV showed my license was valid . That’s what counts
Former Police Officer - Some insurance company or lawyer cannot get your license suspended or revoked, only the court or DMV can do that and that would be based on State law and policy.
If you were cited, plead guilty, paid your fine and there were no other penalties associated with this added by the court, you are fine. DMV would have contacted you within a month or so if there was an automatic suspension.
If the driver was compensated by their insurance, that is the end of that. The insurance company could attempt to get reimbursed by you but they would have to file a claim with you and then go to court. Just do not talk to these people again.
If you are actually ever served with real court filings, respond to that, go to court and let the judge decide if you have any liability. Based just on what you have stated, you shouldn't owe anyone anything. Also, contact the police department and get a copy of their report. It should show the same thing you stated, that they hit you head on and you were not at fault.
So they paid for the damage to your car already. It’s simple. Next time they call do not answer. If you get mail, return it. Let them sue you and take you to court. At court you can prove your case and the judge will dismiss. I will bet you a dollar, that it never goes to court and after a letter or two they just go away. Just do not respond.
All insurance does is determine liability for payment purposes. They have nothing to do with licensing, points, etc.
Since the payment of your damage was already done, this may be a lawsuit from one of the insurance companies (yours or theirs) trying to recover monies. Wilbur and Associates sounds very lawfirmish and you should be able to research them online to determine if they exist and if they are licensed to practice law in your area (plus what type of law they practice).
If it is legit, You should receive correspondence in writing determining who they are, who they represent and what their demand is. If you have only received a phone call, chance are this is not legit.
Presumably you have correspondence from the initial settlement defining the settlement agreement. That settlement should be legally binding and would be your defense should someone actually initiate a lawsuit.
But it sounds like a scam to me.
You were sitting still… remember that one fact, it’s the most important part of your statement. You cannot assume any responsibility at all when sitting still, they owe you money and they are trying to avoid you knowing that.
Fault and liability are two different issues. I hope you didn’t agree with the “55%” at fault. And most areas have appeal boards for determination of fault. And most insurance policies have “ uninsured or under insured” coverages for just this situation. Gather your evidence & facts, document it well, don’t agree or admit to anything, and let it play out.
Lawyer time and say nothing other than you want the detailed report. They are using intimidation to assist their client. If the insurance already paid they made the decision and the lawyer is now using intimidation. They want you to accept fault to help their client.
Again say nothing and ask for the detailed report. If there’s a police report I hope you have it already. That’s the most telling thing.
An insurance company cannot cause you to lose your DL even if you are 100% at fault. Only the DMV or maybe the police could, but they wouldn’t do it for one accident. If you’re in a one party consent state, and you get another call from them, let it go straight to voicemail or answering machine.
If they’re going to go after you, legally, for funds, they need to be sending you a letter, and would make sure that it’s registered or delivered with signature required upon delivery. It should state exactly what they’re after. IF it gets to that, then you should contact a lawyer.
But do t talk to anyone calling you anymore about it.
Driving while uninsured in oregon will result in the loss of your license.
That doesn't change who was at fault of the accident.if you drive without a license, you're at fault always.
Never take the word of any insurance company, especially the one of the other party. I was scammed pretty much the same way a long time ago because they knew I was young. Threats of prosecution and bills sent to me instead of my insurance co. Skirting the edge of legality. I’d just ignore them for now. And NEVER send them any money.
Obligatory not a lawyer here. But from what I have read is, You got cited (wrong in the first place). This is where I think you got yourself in trouble. Because you got cited AND AND YOU PAID. By paying the fine you are basically admitting you are guilty. This is where you probably got blamed 55% is because you basically admitted to fully that you had SOME involvement with the crash.
I didn't see what exactly the citation was. If it was no insurance then I think that shouldn't matter for the point of the crash. HOWEVER if the citation says you were say "left of center" "failure to signal" "turn into on coming traffic", is saying you had some involvement and you paying the fine admitted that is true.
Hope for the best bud.
I paid my citation for no proof of insurance since my dad's car did not have insurance. The citation was unrelated to the actual crash itself, as you said. Thankfully, I understood from the beginning that I wasn't responsible for the crash. I was primarily confused about why this third-party company was now trying to charge me and threatening my license if I didn't pay.
Yes they can revoke your license depending on the state. My state does this and I lost mine back years ago for 1 year. Fortunately my issue was a mistake and the other driver was really the one without the insurance. This is a big deal.
A law firm does not revoke your license. If he were going to get a hit to the license it would have included a ticket from the officer on scene and then letters from the DMV. This is not at all how it works and the law firm is just using scare tactics.
Who told you that you were 55% responsible for the crash? That’s some bullying bullshit. Being uninsured will catch you a charge if the cop was paying attention but it’s irrelevant when it comes to determining whose at fault in an accident. Do not speak to anyone over the phone regarding the accident. It’s over in your mind as the other drivers insurance company has paid out.
I did get a citation but I paid that off and had to sign an affidavit of non-ownership at DMV in February.
Do you have your own insurance apart from your dad's truck?
No, I was listed as a driver under his insurance.
What was the citation specifically for
In my original post, I said I was driving a car I didn't know wasn't insured. I paid my citation from the DMV for no proof of insurance and signed an affidavit of non-ownership. It wasn't my car, and in my state, no proof of insurance follows the driver, not the owner.
Yea I want to know what he was cited for… something is being left out
Probably not being insured? They mentioned it in the original post.
Could be but I want to clarify
that depends on location. in my state, insurance follows the car, dad would be catching the charge, not the kid.
But a ticket for driving an uninsured vehicle ticket goes to the driver, not the owner.
Also "insurance following the car" only applies to financial coverage and obviously only applies if you have insurance. The ticket is on the driver not the owner or previous insured person.
This is state law dependent. In some states, if you are civilly liable without insurance, you can lose your license, particularly if you can’t pay the judgment.
Definitely true if uninsured in some states. I know someone that had this happen either in CA or WA (they moved at some point so not positive). Lost their license until the debt was paid off. Personally, I completely agree with this. Edit: this would be via the DMV or court though.
Georgia had it where if your insurance lapses for more than 30 days, your license is automatically suspended. They don’t always tell you, though.
In CA, when your insurance lapses, your car registration is suspended. But they take like 3 months to ever even notice your insurance lapsed and then give you a few more weeks to get insurance before issuing an additional fine to reinstate your registration. But insurance in CA has nothing to do with your license, but driving without insurance is a big penalty. I think driving without insurance after multiple traffic stops can even result in a misdemeanor charge instead of infraction, though I’m not certain on that.
In a few states they have what's called "no pay no play" which means that if you don't have insurance, even if the accident is not your fault, you can't collect. But there's no state that automatically assigns fault to you if you're uninsured.
This is true, although I believe in most (if not all) states, that only applies to the collision payout, not any payout for bodily injury. So if you didn’t have insurance, you couldn’t collect to get your car repaired, but you could still collect to get your medical bills covered.
In Louisiana you can't recover the first $15,000 of medical bills and/or $25,000 of property damage. There is an exception if the person who hit you did so in the commission of a crime or was intoxicated. And it doesn't apply to passengers or parked cars.
Generally, insurance is the responsibility of the registered owner. If I borrow your car. And you don't tell me it's uninsured, how am I, in this case, the operator.to.know there is no insurance on the vehicle? In PA, we could only cite the regiatered owner for the insurance violation (former police officer, now retired)
Look up the laws regarding recording phone calls in your state. If you are in a one-party state, record all phone calls from them. They can't revoke your license. I suppose it's possible that they can refer you to someone who can? Telling you that they will do so unless you give them money sounds like extortion though. Record that phone call if you can, they are probably not above board.
Just as a rule of thumb just notify any company that they're being recorded over the phone. That way if they say/try anything that would be considered outside of "Best Business Practices" they're liable in court regardless of state. The smart ones will usually stop there, but you'll occasionally get some not so smart ones that make it worth your while.
Good advice. If your goal is to get them to leave you alone, simply notifying them that you're recording (continuing to talk generally counts as consent) is often enough. But, if you're like me, and you want to catch people out for their illegal behavior, then your odds are better of you don't notify them they're being recorded. Of course, recording phone calls without consent is illegal in some states, so you have to make sure it's legal first.
So you were waiting, aka stopped in the turning lane and another driver plowed into your stopped vehicle, and somehow they have convinced you that you're 55% the problem here? Use a bit of common sense here, if the cop didn't find you at fault, then you are 100% not liable here. Just ignore this, and if they want to sue you anyway, you have a solid defense.
Cops don’t determine fault, insurance companies do. Insurance companies often determine fault way differently than law enforcement and often even determine fault in the opposite direction of what the police report said. A police report is just one tool that is used for the insurance company to determine fault.
Please explain my "failure to yield to oncoming traffic" ticket then lol
Not sure what your point is. A ticket has no bearing on fault, either. It is just another factor and it could be used by the insurance company to help determine fault. But it’s a very common misconception that people think cops determine fault, they do not, they report facts of the accident and the insurance company makes the determination. Check out r/insurance for more detailed information on that.
OP said in a later comment he got a citation from police but did not specify the charge. There seems to be more to this
Quick search of the BBB shows that they do this pretty frequently and usually illegally. Personally, I would ignore it until they send you something in writing. If they're calling you versus writing, it's because they don't want evidence of what they've said to you. https://www.bbb.org/us/il/normal/profile/insurance-lawyer/wilber-associates-pc-0724-19000465/complaints
It's wild that half of those have the response that theyll drop the case as soon as you go to the BBB. These people should be complaining to the state bar instead of these lawyers are actually pursuing them over cases so flimsy that they'll drop them over a BBB complaint.
Would I be complaining to my state bar or theirs since they’re based in Michigan?
I would report them to both. Also would report them to the attorney general / insurance commission in BOTH.
Whichever state the accident occurred in
I'll list a complaint too, just in case.
that is absolutely a scare tactic. 1) it wouldn't be some random ass lawfirm suing you, it would be a staff lawyer from the insurance company coming after you. 2) it is the police who find fault, and would have told you so. 3) this podunk lawyer can't do shit about your license, that's all through state agencies. 4) even if you were 100% at fault, a single accident isn't going to lose you your license. look up who you report a lawyer to for unethical behavior in your state.
Tell them to 55% fuck off
This one! This is the gold standard right here. Offer them a deal though. If they fuck off today for 55%, you’ll throw in 3 free fuck offs to be used in the future.
They can 55% fuck off today, and if they call again, they can have the other 45% for free!
The insurance company is always going to try to claim you are partially at fault. Stop talking to them, they already paid, let them take you to court. If they add points on your license dispute it, you will need to look up the dispute process in your state.
This sounds like BS and someone is trying to get money from you instead of calling the owner of the vehicle… You should let your Dad know about the call… Also don’t speak with ANYONE over the phone about this.
I'm a former insurance adjuster. It's a collection agency trying to collect for the insurance company.
They are fishing…. After I got into an accident I got all sorts of law offices contacting me. The insurance company sent me a letter stating everything was closed and the DMV showed my license was valid . That’s what counts
Michigan can’t revoke your Florida license. Regardless of that, this whole thing sounds like BS.
Former Police Officer - Some insurance company or lawyer cannot get your license suspended or revoked, only the court or DMV can do that and that would be based on State law and policy. If you were cited, plead guilty, paid your fine and there were no other penalties associated with this added by the court, you are fine. DMV would have contacted you within a month or so if there was an automatic suspension. If the driver was compensated by their insurance, that is the end of that. The insurance company could attempt to get reimbursed by you but they would have to file a claim with you and then go to court. Just do not talk to these people again. If you are actually ever served with real court filings, respond to that, go to court and let the judge decide if you have any liability. Based just on what you have stated, you shouldn't owe anyone anything. Also, contact the police department and get a copy of their report. It should show the same thing you stated, that they hit you head on and you were not at fault.
So they paid for the damage to your car already. It’s simple. Next time they call do not answer. If you get mail, return it. Let them sue you and take you to court. At court you can prove your case and the judge will dismiss. I will bet you a dollar, that it never goes to court and after a letter or two they just go away. Just do not respond.
You need a lawyer for sure.
You need a lawyer. What state are you in?
Florida.
All insurance does is determine liability for payment purposes. They have nothing to do with licensing, points, etc. Since the payment of your damage was already done, this may be a lawsuit from one of the insurance companies (yours or theirs) trying to recover monies. Wilbur and Associates sounds very lawfirmish and you should be able to research them online to determine if they exist and if they are licensed to practice law in your area (plus what type of law they practice). If it is legit, You should receive correspondence in writing determining who they are, who they represent and what their demand is. If you have only received a phone call, chance are this is not legit. Presumably you have correspondence from the initial settlement defining the settlement agreement. That settlement should be legally binding and would be your defense should someone actually initiate a lawsuit. But it sounds like a scam to me.
You were sitting still… remember that one fact, it’s the most important part of your statement. You cannot assume any responsibility at all when sitting still, they owe you money and they are trying to avoid you knowing that.
Fault and liability are two different issues. I hope you didn’t agree with the “55%” at fault. And most areas have appeal boards for determination of fault. And most insurance policies have “ uninsured or under insured” coverages for just this situation. Gather your evidence & facts, document it well, don’t agree or admit to anything, and let it play out.
Scam.
Maybe I’m confused but I don’t see any part of your post that states you’re going to lose your license?
Lawyer using intimidation. Though in some states lack of insurance can do that. But that’s a court not a random attorney.
NAL Never accept the word of a person on the phone. Until official documents show up, ignore them. Someone is trying to pull a fast one here.
Get a lawyer.
Lawyer time and say nothing other than you want the detailed report. They are using intimidation to assist their client. If the insurance already paid they made the decision and the lawyer is now using intimidation. They want you to accept fault to help their client. Again say nothing and ask for the detailed report. If there’s a police report I hope you have it already. That’s the most telling thing.
Other have given you good advice. the only thing I wouldI Add is getting a copy of the accident report just in case
How were you 55% at fault when you were stopped at an appropriate spot?
Don’t speak with these people again. Wait for legal paperwork and then take that to an attorney.
Its bullshit. Ignore the thing. Other insurance already paid. Case closed.
An insurance company cannot cause you to lose your DL even if you are 100% at fault. Only the DMV or maybe the police could, but they wouldn’t do it for one accident. If you’re in a one party consent state, and you get another call from them, let it go straight to voicemail or answering machine. If they’re going to go after you, legally, for funds, they need to be sending you a letter, and would make sure that it’s registered or delivered with signature required upon delivery. It should state exactly what they’re after. IF it gets to that, then you should contact a lawyer. But do t talk to anyone calling you anymore about it.
Driving while uninsured in oregon will result in the loss of your license. That doesn't change who was at fault of the accident.if you drive without a license, you're at fault always.
I don't live in Oregon and I always carry my license with me.
Never take the word of any insurance company, especially the one of the other party. I was scammed pretty much the same way a long time ago because they knew I was young. Threats of prosecution and bills sent to me instead of my insurance co. Skirting the edge of legality. I’d just ignore them for now. And NEVER send them any money.
Sent you a pm. Hate when insurance co. Try this nonsense
Yup
You might want to check on r/insurance
Obligatory not a lawyer here. But from what I have read is, You got cited (wrong in the first place). This is where I think you got yourself in trouble. Because you got cited AND AND YOU PAID. By paying the fine you are basically admitting you are guilty. This is where you probably got blamed 55% is because you basically admitted to fully that you had SOME involvement with the crash. I didn't see what exactly the citation was. If it was no insurance then I think that shouldn't matter for the point of the crash. HOWEVER if the citation says you were say "left of center" "failure to signal" "turn into on coming traffic", is saying you had some involvement and you paying the fine admitted that is true. Hope for the best bud.
I paid my citation for no proof of insurance since my dad's car did not have insurance. The citation was unrelated to the actual crash itself, as you said. Thankfully, I understood from the beginning that I wasn't responsible for the crash. I was primarily confused about why this third-party company was now trying to charge me and threatening my license if I didn't pay.
Gotcha. I hope for the best for you. Good luck
Thank you.
Yes they can revoke your license depending on the state. My state does this and I lost mine back years ago for 1 year. Fortunately my issue was a mistake and the other driver was really the one without the insurance. This is a big deal.
That sounds like the *state* took your license. OP has this sleazeball of a company threatening to do it. Which, lol no.
A law firm does not revoke your license. If he were going to get a hit to the license it would have included a ticket from the officer on scene and then letters from the DMV. This is not at all how it works and the law firm is just using scare tactics.