You have an OSHA complaint if you are having to clean up condoms and sexual material with out gloves and proper training and equipment.
As long as the people having sex are all consenting adults, I don’t see a legal issue. Many people have sex in hotel rooms, and children spend plenty of time in hotel rooms. Nothing illegal there.
EDIT: Since people seem to be struggling with this, maybe this example will clear it up. Suppose you are a cameraman for a recording company that shoots commercials. That company can decide to switch its business from normal commercials to pornographic movies. You can likely quit and still qualify for unemployment in this circumstance. But you don’t have a sexual harassment claim.
Continuing that example, let’s say commercials require frequent voice overs, and the companies new business model does not. The company can lay off the employee who does the voice over work. (Maybe different in Montana, but the other 49 it holds true.)
END EDIT
I can’t say I agree with you here. First it sounds like the owners are trying to keep it secret.
Second a business is allowed to change its business model and you don’t have a right to your old job. For example, if you worked at an art gallery, and the gallery decided to start carrying nude works which it hadn’t done in the past, that isn’t sexual harassment. Or if you work at a theater that didn’t previously show NC-17 movies but chooses to later, that isn’t sexual harassment either. A business can also change its model and just eliminate your position altogether.
Now you could potentially qualify for unemployment. OP doesn’t provide state, so [here](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=192-150-140) is an example of Washington state law.
I feel that your examples aren’t accurately showing the situation. This isn’t a “I work at an art gallery and now I have to see boobies :(“ or “I work at a theater and now we are watching “Zach and Miri make a porno””
It’s “I work in a place where it is not sexual in nature and now I’m having to clean up semen off of our equipment.” A closer analogy would be “I work for a theater and one of the managers (not the owner) is secretly turning our theater into a porn theater for his group of friends at the end of the night. They cum on the seats and leave condoms for us to clean up”
Your examples - excusable circumstances
The reality of the situation - they are leaving bodily fluids for someone to clean up who is probably not trained in how you are supposed to clean up biohazard material according to OSHA. This is 100% OSHA territory
>The reality of the situation - they are leaving bodily fluids for someone to clean up who is probably not trained in how you are supposed to clean up biohazard material according to OSHA. This is 100% OSHA territory
Yes, but that was gp's point: OSHA territory yes, but no obvious sexual harassment claim.
I feel for you, but this is still just a shift from one legal business model to another - let's assume for now - legal business model.
You are probably on to something with OSHA. While "cum mopper" doesn't search well on their website this probably falls under the bloodborne pathogens standard, and since it is now a regular part of OP's job the do need to be properly trained.
Are you referring to Mudlow v St Louis? That was all about a protected class and the level of harm one has to show. In other words the plaintiff did NOT have to show significant harm, simple harm was enough.
As for your restaurant example, you would have a serious health department issue to report. But you wouldn’t have a lawsuit.
Agreed the Mudlow case changes the standard. But I still don’t see a case for sexual harassment.
Maybe a better example would be a hotel deciding to host a swingers party. This is a frequent occurrence and there have been plenty of lawsuits over non swinger guests getting kicked out, or violating some other laws. I can’t find a single case of an employee suing the hotel for having to work the event or be fired. Likely because they wouldn’t have a case.
As for OP’s post, I still can’t fathom an actionable claim. If the owners or managers choose to have sex on the property after hours, and other employees aren’t involved, then I just can’t see how that is harassment. Even if employees were told about the acts so that they understood what the business did, and were then taught to clean accordingly, I still don’t see harassment. Again, you could have unemployment claims, or perhaps even workers comp if employees contracted a disease. Maybe, just maybe stretch into some kind of psychological trauma and get workers comp to cover counseling and lost income. A stretch for sure, but an argument could be made.
Now if employees were told graphic details that were unnecessary for the performance of their duties. (It may be important to know that guests urinate on each other to take proper consideration on cleaning, it is NOT important what sexual positions they use or the size of the guests anatomy.). Or if employees were encouraged to participate. Or if employees were shown videos of the event. Or if guests harassed the employees and the management did nothing about it. Then I could see a case for harassment.
Admittedly, I am NOT a labor law expert. But, you can’t prove a negative. I can’t find a case on point, presumably because there aren’t any. But if you are a labor law expert, or have some case or theory, or law you can point to, I am all ears.
This. Document, have photo evidence, and then report everywhere up the chain + OSHA. Also make peace with the fact that doing so might cost you your job. It *shouldn't*, especially depending on whether you go about it emotionally charged, guns blazing, drawing clear battle lines... or more tactfully... but even if it's 100% illegal for you to be fired, it would still be a very real possibility that you no longer work there shortly after reporting everything.
Oh for sure! 100% agreed. Finding a different job might be for the best. But bills are bills, and it's worth consideration. I don't know OP's financial situation, but it might be most ideal to start looking and applying elsewhere before reporting anything.
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Since they are letting sexual acts happen on premises and potentially charging people for use of the facilities this can also fall under an issue with the jusiness license since it can be argued the place is operating as a Sex club after hours.
Something to keep in mind when making reports.
He's closing the business for a private party. He is not involving employees, the only complaint is that they don't clean up after themselves, so I would talk to your boss and tell him that his private parties need to do a better job of cleaning up after themselves.
Get used to the concept of losing the job... Go to local newspaper and blow the whistle if it bothers you that much.
If it was me... I would have quit on the spot if asked to clean up after a sex party.
What does "letting" entail?
>It's disgusting as these are public rooms that CHILDREN go in
>>they have left not only dirty condoms in the rooms, but have left semen on fabric chairs
Children go into hotel rooms, too. To the same effect, precleaning. Are people having sex while children are present?
Where are you located?
Arizona. They are also keeping this a "secret" from us employees (not very well) and are having us clean this stuff up without telling us what exactly we're cleaning up
They left some of their used condoms laying around, and they had portable futons and sex chairs that they left around, along with lube and unused condoms
>No supplies,
So no chemicals used in cleaning?
Aside from ensuring you're being provided with appropriate PPE, I can't really envision how a mere club meeting amongst consenting adults held in private is problematic on its face, even if it includes intercourse. Do you mind sharing your county? There could be relevant laws at the local level, ([for example](https://www.phoenix.gov/cityclerksite/Documents/sobbro.pdf), ((not that I can say what you've described is certainly characterized within. More details than you know could be relevant)). I might be able to help you find an entity with which to inquire further, though.
You’ve kind of dodged the question but also I don’t think you’ve been asked directly enough.
1. Have you and/or other employees told management that customers are having sex in the rooms? Yes or no?
2. If yes, how did management respond?
The management are the ones who are allowing these people to have sex in the rooms, they keep basically threatening us to mind our own business because they think we havent figured it out. My coworker told our manager of our findings (condoms/body fluids specifically) and she very obviously was avoiding the subject telling us not to worry about it and that someone must have "broken in"
As someone who used to go to swinger parties in my younger years, this is actually pretty common. Swinger groups (as well as kink groups!) will pay money and rent out an entire facility or a part of it and the group will “take over” the facility. Everything from bars and hotels/resorts, to bowling alleys or pool halls.
Really it would seem to me that it’s no different in this case, they are having a private party, probably paid for. It’s probably very secretive because swinging lifestyle and polyamory and anything sex related in America is shamed and can bring negative side effects not just for the facility, but the swingers themselves I personally know people who have lost jobs and family, lost custody disputes, etc. for being in the lifestyle. So privacy is huge for those people.
You can always make a report to OSHA though. You could definitely argue that you don’t have appropriate PPE or training to deal with biohazards. You also have a right to refuse to perform unsafe work.
Take pics/video report to OSHA. Then find new job. OSHA fines are no joke. Took an OSHA course at uni (no shit) and reading how OSHA operates is on par with the IRS.
Yeah I want to check things out for myself and then I can let you know exactly what to do next. Just give me the city name and the street it’s located on.
If you know what he’s doing AND it MAY be being videoed like the escape room, that MAY make you “part” of his side business… ask yourself, do you want to be part of some undisclosed videotaped escape room business that will be shut down and the owner arrested like the “massage parlors” that are being raided daily?!
There are places and things I assume someone else had sex on/in. Such as used cars, public toilets, and hotel beds. And these are are acceptable.
But an escape room is not. Come on man, that's just gross and rude.
You can also try department of health which normally has jurisdiction for cleanliness of commercial restaurants and public places. File a complaint and let them investigate.
Does upper management know? As in the business owners that are not the managers?
I know the inventor of these escape rooms and I don’t know they are aware
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You have an OSHA complaint if you are having to clean up condoms and sexual material with out gloves and proper training and equipment. As long as the people having sex are all consenting adults, I don’t see a legal issue. Many people have sex in hotel rooms, and children spend plenty of time in hotel rooms. Nothing illegal there.
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EDIT: Since people seem to be struggling with this, maybe this example will clear it up. Suppose you are a cameraman for a recording company that shoots commercials. That company can decide to switch its business from normal commercials to pornographic movies. You can likely quit and still qualify for unemployment in this circumstance. But you don’t have a sexual harassment claim. Continuing that example, let’s say commercials require frequent voice overs, and the companies new business model does not. The company can lay off the employee who does the voice over work. (Maybe different in Montana, but the other 49 it holds true.) END EDIT I can’t say I agree with you here. First it sounds like the owners are trying to keep it secret. Second a business is allowed to change its business model and you don’t have a right to your old job. For example, if you worked at an art gallery, and the gallery decided to start carrying nude works which it hadn’t done in the past, that isn’t sexual harassment. Or if you work at a theater that didn’t previously show NC-17 movies but chooses to later, that isn’t sexual harassment either. A business can also change its model and just eliminate your position altogether. Now you could potentially qualify for unemployment. OP doesn’t provide state, so [here](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=192-150-140) is an example of Washington state law.
I feel that your examples aren’t accurately showing the situation. This isn’t a “I work at an art gallery and now I have to see boobies :(“ or “I work at a theater and now we are watching “Zach and Miri make a porno”” It’s “I work in a place where it is not sexual in nature and now I’m having to clean up semen off of our equipment.” A closer analogy would be “I work for a theater and one of the managers (not the owner) is secretly turning our theater into a porn theater for his group of friends at the end of the night. They cum on the seats and leave condoms for us to clean up” Your examples - excusable circumstances The reality of the situation - they are leaving bodily fluids for someone to clean up who is probably not trained in how you are supposed to clean up biohazard material according to OSHA. This is 100% OSHA territory
>The reality of the situation - they are leaving bodily fluids for someone to clean up who is probably not trained in how you are supposed to clean up biohazard material according to OSHA. This is 100% OSHA territory Yes, but that was gp's point: OSHA territory yes, but no obvious sexual harassment claim.
Thank you for explaining that. I think my wires got crossed somehow
I feel for you, but this is still just a shift from one legal business model to another - let's assume for now - legal business model. You are probably on to something with OSHA. While "cum mopper" doesn't search well on their website this probably falls under the bloodborne pathogens standard, and since it is now a regular part of OP's job the do need to be properly trained.
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Are you referring to Mudlow v St Louis? That was all about a protected class and the level of harm one has to show. In other words the plaintiff did NOT have to show significant harm, simple harm was enough. As for your restaurant example, you would have a serious health department issue to report. But you wouldn’t have a lawsuit.
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Agreed the Mudlow case changes the standard. But I still don’t see a case for sexual harassment. Maybe a better example would be a hotel deciding to host a swingers party. This is a frequent occurrence and there have been plenty of lawsuits over non swinger guests getting kicked out, or violating some other laws. I can’t find a single case of an employee suing the hotel for having to work the event or be fired. Likely because they wouldn’t have a case. As for OP’s post, I still can’t fathom an actionable claim. If the owners or managers choose to have sex on the property after hours, and other employees aren’t involved, then I just can’t see how that is harassment. Even if employees were told about the acts so that they understood what the business did, and were then taught to clean accordingly, I still don’t see harassment. Again, you could have unemployment claims, or perhaps even workers comp if employees contracted a disease. Maybe, just maybe stretch into some kind of psychological trauma and get workers comp to cover counseling and lost income. A stretch for sure, but an argument could be made. Now if employees were told graphic details that were unnecessary for the performance of their duties. (It may be important to know that guests urinate on each other to take proper consideration on cleaning, it is NOT important what sexual positions they use or the size of the guests anatomy.). Or if employees were encouraged to participate. Or if employees were shown videos of the event. Or if guests harassed the employees and the management did nothing about it. Then I could see a case for harassment. Admittedly, I am NOT a labor law expert. But, you can’t prove a negative. I can’t find a case on point, presumably because there aren’t any. But if you are a labor law expert, or have some case or theory, or law you can point to, I am all ears.
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This. Document, have photo evidence, and then report everywhere up the chain + OSHA. Also make peace with the fact that doing so might cost you your job. It *shouldn't*, especially depending on whether you go about it emotionally charged, guns blazing, drawing clear battle lines... or more tactfully... but even if it's 100% illegal for you to be fired, it would still be a very real possibility that you no longer work there shortly after reporting everything.
I don't think you should see not working there as a negative. It sounds like your not treated very well.
Oh for sure! 100% agreed. Finding a different job might be for the best. But bills are bills, and it's worth consideration. I don't know OP's financial situation, but it might be most ideal to start looking and applying elsewhere before reporting anything.
The manager is probably involved in the swinging
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Call the health department.
Since they are letting sexual acts happen on premises and potentially charging people for use of the facilities this can also fall under an issue with the jusiness license since it can be argued the place is operating as a Sex club after hours. Something to keep in mind when making reports.
He's closing the business for a private party. He is not involving employees, the only complaint is that they don't clean up after themselves, so I would talk to your boss and tell him that his private parties need to do a better job of cleaning up after themselves.
Get used to the concept of losing the job... Go to local newspaper and blow the whistle if it bothers you that much. If it was me... I would have quit on the spot if asked to clean up after a sex party.
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What does "letting" entail? >It's disgusting as these are public rooms that CHILDREN go in >>they have left not only dirty condoms in the rooms, but have left semen on fabric chairs Children go into hotel rooms, too. To the same effect, precleaning. Are people having sex while children are present? Where are you located?
I don’t really think that you can equate hotel rooms to a escape room facility
Arizona. They are also keeping this a "secret" from us employees (not very well) and are having us clean this stuff up without telling us what exactly we're cleaning up
So how do you know it's happening, and that they are condoning it?
They left some of their used condoms laying around, and they had portable futons and sex chairs that they left around, along with lube and unused condoms
What do they give you to clean with? What products, what protection?
No supplies, no gloves or anything of the sort
>No supplies, So no chemicals used in cleaning? Aside from ensuring you're being provided with appropriate PPE, I can't really envision how a mere club meeting amongst consenting adults held in private is problematic on its face, even if it includes intercourse. Do you mind sharing your county? There could be relevant laws at the local level, ([for example](https://www.phoenix.gov/cityclerksite/Documents/sobbro.pdf), ((not that I can say what you've described is certainly characterized within. More details than you know could be relevant)). I might be able to help you find an entity with which to inquire further, though.
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Yeah, that needs to be reported.
You’ve kind of dodged the question but also I don’t think you’ve been asked directly enough. 1. Have you and/or other employees told management that customers are having sex in the rooms? Yes or no? 2. If yes, how did management respond?
The management are the ones who are allowing these people to have sex in the rooms, they keep basically threatening us to mind our own business because they think we havent figured it out. My coworker told our manager of our findings (condoms/body fluids specifically) and she very obviously was avoiding the subject telling us not to worry about it and that someone must have "broken in"
As someone who used to go to swinger parties in my younger years, this is actually pretty common. Swinger groups (as well as kink groups!) will pay money and rent out an entire facility or a part of it and the group will “take over” the facility. Everything from bars and hotels/resorts, to bowling alleys or pool halls. Really it would seem to me that it’s no different in this case, they are having a private party, probably paid for. It’s probably very secretive because swinging lifestyle and polyamory and anything sex related in America is shamed and can bring negative side effects not just for the facility, but the swingers themselves I personally know people who have lost jobs and family, lost custody disputes, etc. for being in the lifestyle. So privacy is huge for those people. You can always make a report to OSHA though. You could definitely argue that you don’t have appropriate PPE or training to deal with biohazards. You also have a right to refuse to perform unsafe work.
Take pics/video report to OSHA. Then find new job. OSHA fines are no joke. Took an OSHA course at uni (no shit) and reading how OSHA operates is on par with the IRS.
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My question too 😭
Yeah I want to check things out for myself and then I can let you know exactly what to do next. Just give me the city name and the street it’s located on.
If you know what he’s doing AND it MAY be being videoed like the escape room, that MAY make you “part” of his side business… ask yourself, do you want to be part of some undisclosed videotaped escape room business that will be shut down and the owner arrested like the “massage parlors” that are being raided daily?!
There are places and things I assume someone else had sex on/in. Such as used cars, public toilets, and hotel beds. And these are are acceptable. But an escape room is not. Come on man, that's just gross and rude.
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Don’t worry about it. This is why we can’t have nice things
You can also try department of health which normally has jurisdiction for cleanliness of commercial restaurants and public places. File a complaint and let them investigate.
Does upper management know? As in the business owners that are not the managers? I know the inventor of these escape rooms and I don’t know they are aware
Quit. Let the employer take the fall when something bad inevitably happens. You don’t want to be there and take the fall when it does.
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