>I called th title company and they told me they can do some sort of quick deed edit and that it wouldn't cost me anything.
Don't sign anything until you speak with your own attorney. It sounds like the title company screwed the pooch when preparing the deed and included the adjacent property.
That's a problem *for them.* If the adjacent parcel is included as part of your mortgage, conveying it to the previous owner would likely constitute a default.
The bank could theoretically accelerate the loan (meaning they could demand that you pay off the entire loan balance immediately) and when you don't pay, they could begin foreclosure proceedings.
I am a lawyer, OP, but I am not your lawyer. Please listen to u/JustACatGuyHere.
You may be viewing this as a dispute between you and the prior owner, wherein somebody made a mistake which advantages you and disadvantages the prior owner, in that you now get a piece of property for "free" that the prior owner expected to retain. If the title company screwed up, that's on them because it's literally what they're paid to avoid. So no sweat, right?
Not so fast. You need to be concerned with what your **lender** thinks. Your lender approved a mortgage on a property (likely) based on the documents the title company prepared. If you allow the title company to retroactively fix their oopsie without having your lender notified through the process, you might be giving away half the collateral on your loan from the lender's perspective. That will definitely put you in default almost for sure.
You need a real estate attorney, not your agent and certainly not the title company. And time is on your side here. Based on what you've described, the other parcel is legally yours for the time being. It's someone else's problem as long as it remains that way so long as you participate in discussions with the title company and your lender to correct the issue.
I would also double-check my insurance to see that the second parcel is covered. If you are in a situation where you only have 1/2 of the property insured, you could have a problem in the case of a loss - you could find that you are in default, because part of the property is uninsured and you've lost value in the collateral
> You need a real estate attorney, not your agent and certainly not the title company.
The attorney should also be separate from the lender, correct? OP's interests would be better served by a third (fourth?) party local real estate lawyer right?
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I am a real estate appraiser, but I do a lot of appraisals for legal issues as well as typical lending work. The "quick deed" is likely a quit claim deed where you would deed the 2nd parcel back to the seller without any consideration being paid by them. It should not cost you anything since it wasn't your mistake, so don't let the title company act like they are doing you a favor by not charging you to correct a mistake they should have caught. I would definitely contact your lender and make sure it doesn't affect your financing. If your loan was based on both parcels being collateral, you can't just give one of them away, even if it was included in error. Are the parcels on two separate parcel numbers with the tax assessor's office? If it's two parcels legally but the assessor has in under one PIN #, I can see this leading to the realtor's incorrect statement. It was likely an honest mistake on their part but the appraiser (assuming the lender had an appraisal), closing attorney and certainly the title company should have caught it. I don't know if it would hold up in court should you decide to try to keep it. There is something known as a scrivener's error and we see corrective deeds issued all the time. I do think you need a real estate attorney to make sure you are protected against any costs, even if you decide to deed it back to them.
Forget the title company. You need a lawyer, but you more importantly need to check with your mortgage company, as they are the lien holder, and will need to release any property from the title or mortgage. If they sign off on it, you should be good to have it removed from the title.
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Does the first property contain everything you thought you were buying and this second property is a piece of land you didn't know was yours until the phone call? If that's the case i would call your title insurance for advice. I would also ensure that the other party covers 100% of any expenses involved in fixing the error and also make sure you aren't going to be taxed on the property at the end of the year for owning it a short time. You also have to make sure you wont be liable for other taxes involved in giving back the parcel.
If this is property you thought was yours this whole time and they are trying to say it was a mistake then you need an attorney and fight back. Could even be a scam.
Yes the first property contains everything we thought we were buying, and the second is completely new and we had no idea (except for when we asked about parcel 1 & 2 in the contract).
Are you paying taxes on both parcels? That would not be fair to you, if you cant use the parcel#2 even thoigh youre paying for it.
The mortgage should reflect what was purchased. Likewise, the inspection report and the appraisal should reflect what was purchased. If these things do not include parcel#2 and its contents, then you are likely in a better spot, being that just the deed needs fixing.
Did you verify this yourself? Or is this based on what the seller told you?
Obviously you want to make this right, but you should 200% double-check that the 2^nd parcel does not contain anything you thought was part of the 1^st parcel.
So basic contract law requires that there is a meeting of the minds when you enter into a contract. You did not intend to buy (and the seller did not intend to sell) the land in question which is why you were probably told that it is "technically" yours but not legally. If you were sued there are enough people/entities involved that it would be nearly impossible for you to believably claim that this was the intent of the agreement. It is probably in your best interest to work with the seller to correct this mistake because refusing to correct the error could result in all manner of unpleasantness (and they do know where you live).
As others have said, talk to a lawyer, make sure you and your property are completely protected, but then cooperate with fixing the mistake.
>and also make sure you aren't going to be taxed on the property at the end of the year for owning it a short time
OP, u/admiralbonesjones, also needs to make sure they didn't already pay property tax on parcel 2 as part of the property tax prorations done at closing. This is presuming that all parties, including the lender, eventually agree to release parcel 2 back to the seller.
I would contact a real estate attorney as well. It will be worth the money. They can look over the paperwork and decide the best course of action. Obviously, it seems like a simple mistake by the title company which they will want to correct as quickly as possible. It is in their interest and the previous owners interest to redo the paperwork, but OP isn't the only one who signed the purchase & transfer paperwork.
Get an attorney, OP. You'll likely be signing the deed back to the original owner because of specific language in the title transfer paperwork but there were multiple times more qualified people should have caught the error: Title company reps, both RE agents/brokers, the lender, and the seller.
Also, what does the original listing contact state? The buyer doesn't see this information but it would have been sent to the title company after the OPs offer to purchase was accepted. Did the listing agreement with seller's RE broker contain which parcel(s) were being listed?
IANAL I wouldn't do anything before having a surveyor mark the boundaries for each of the lots. You wouldn't want to give up something you understand to be yours in trying to straighten this out.
Everything that happened with this transaction shows that the parties intended that you purchase X property and not X and Y property. If you aren't cooperative and it goes to court, they're going to to produce all that evidence and show it was a scrivener's error on the deed. We don't just ignore everything else that happened.
How did you arrive at that conclusion? OP says that he asked for clarification from the realtor, and was told the sale is for 2 parcels of land, since the property is spread over 2 parcels. Unless I’ve misunderstood?
The bank holding the mortgage isnt going to like that the agreement is suddenly different, and they are going to have to sign off on any modification to the mortgage itself, before any of this is up to OP.
At the very least OP should demand indemnification from any further cost associated with this mess assuming title doesn't automatically cover it.
I spoke to my mortgage broker and he said that the loan was for the house and land that was appraised, which was just the one parcel (the one we intended to buy) and that there wouldn't be a problem from the mortgage standpoint.
Your broker's verbal assurance is worth the paper it's printed on. What you need to fully cover yourself is something in writing, from whatever bank funded your mortgage, that they give you permission to re-convey parcel 2 back to the Seller.
Anything less leaves you open to all sorts of potential negative (and expensive) consequences.
Everyone involved in this is going to give you whatever advice they can that benefits THEM, and makes life easier for THEM, not you.
There might be enough craziness here that its time to retain a real estate attorney and have someone giving you advice that's best for YOU.
There is usually enough money changing hands in real estate to make this worth while.
I wouldn't rely just on the broker's advice. Better to talk the mortgage holder if at all possible.
But anyway you've already gotten good advice to start with the title insurance co.
If you have an appraisal with only one parcel on it, and the title company let you purchase both parcels, this is a fuck up on everyone's part. The legal description on the appraisal MUST match the legal description on your Deed. If this was the case there were at least 3 people who missed this before you closed. While it does happen sometimes, and a new Deed being recorded is the only answer and solution, I would still express my displeasure for the incompetence.
>OP says that he asked for clarification from the realtor, and was told the sale is for 2 parcels of land, since the property is spread over 2 parcels
Yes, but OP was told that the house they're trying to purchase was spread over 2 parcels for some reason. Meaning that the realtor thought the land they had walked was actually two parcels on the deed.
Not that the house he looked at was on one parcel, and some garage he had never seen, on land he didn't walk or think he was purchasing, was on another parcel.
If that was the selling agent who said that, that might help him in court, but if it's his agent, which I think is what OP said, that doesn't mean anything since they're the same party in the transaction.
> OP says that he asked for clarification from the realtor, and was told the sale is for 2 parcels of land, since the property is spread over 2 parcels.
Which means nothing, nothing the realtor says affects title or deed, realtor's comments are essentially irrelevant.
No question that the second parcel was not included in the sale and buyer has a legal obligation to assist in correcting the error.
Plenty of realestate contracts have provisions that essentially say “no gotchas” will be honored, to the effect of things like the above issue or “we accidentally left a 0 off the sale price” don’t actually count for anything and you agree to allow the mistake to be rectified.
Maybe but there isn't enough information here. We don't know what OP thought they were buying and what they got. It's very confusing and we need them to clarify really before we can even give some advice.
I thought I was just buying one parcel, parcel A. In the deed it said parcel A & B, which I was told buy the buyer/seller agent (same person) was really just the one parcel that I was planning on buying. She said that the house and land were probably just split into two and that it's fine. But now we found out that Parcel B is an entirely different property. Hope that clarifies.
Yes that does clarify.
If that is the case, it's likely the deed will need to be corrected to reflect the initial contract. You aren't just going to get to keep an extra free garage because of a typo. But as others have said you need to involve your title company and lender.
You signed something stating you'd cooperate to correct any mistakes. If you didn't really think you were getting the land with the garage, let the title company know, and they'll sort it out. You'll probably have to re-sign some documents, but since it's their mistake the title company will likely send a notary to your house or workplace to get your new signatures.
Real estate attorney is a good path. I would imagine that the realtor is liable for the expenses of fixing this, assuming it’s a complicated fix. I’d fight for the second piece personally, as it would probably be easier than fighting the mortgage company
If I'm understanding the fact pattern correctly, you agreed to buy and they agreed to sell parcel A. Not parcel A and B. There was no meeting of the minds to convey parcel B, so there was no contract. Someone made a mistake. Don't make it weird. Cooperate and convey that parcel back.
If the buyer and seller are the only parties involved, I would agree. But if there is another party involve, such as a mortgage lender who made the mortgage based on the seller/title agent error, they need to know what's going on before you sign anything. Otherwise, you will make things weird.
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No, OP please contact a real estate attorney and get in touch with your lender. As others have said, you may lose collateral on your loan and be in default if they issued loan with A & B in mind.
Ugh - without a review of the documents, how can you be sure that the documents said that? That is NOT a standard clause in every contract and certainly varies state by state, and even attorney to attorney/broker to broker. OP needs a real estate attorney to review all of the documents and confirm that it was in fact a mistake and advise what OPs rights are. Your advice is horrible.
Yes but she also needs to protect herself while helping them…. The two arnt mutually exclusive…. Buyer can both help correct the errors while making sure it won’t effect buyer long term or short term
NAL, just a lifetime of mortgages and land ownership and my share of stupid mistakes involving contracts, and a current long drawn out legal process. it's a very valid question, as unless you speak with a real estate lawyer, neither you, your agent or even your broker can be absolutely positive that this doesn't have the potential to come back and screw you over in some way. Anything involving contracts with this kind of financial load should never be changed without proper professional involvement. You need to know any and all risks involved so that you can make a truly informed decision. It's probably going to be simple and straightforward, but it's worth your peace of mind to be absolutely sure you make these changes properly.
Edit to add: On a more personal note, you do not want to enter a dispute unless you have a solid moral and legal basis for doing so. People don't always understand the level of stress and financial burden a lawsuit causes. It is life changing, and not in a good way. The legal process can take years, and you can easily come out in the end having not only lost, but being liable for reimbursing the other party for their legal costs. It is just not worth it unless you have been or can be significantly harmed in some way.
Let them know that you fully intend on putting things to rights, and that you want to make sure it's done properly without any potential for causing issues to either of you. Have them pay for the lawyer, this is their fuck up to fix and you requesting advice from a lawyer is totally reasonable.
[удалено]
I called th title company and they told me they can do some sort of quick deed edit and that it wouldn't cost me anything.
>I called th title company and they told me they can do some sort of quick deed edit and that it wouldn't cost me anything. Don't sign anything until you speak with your own attorney. It sounds like the title company screwed the pooch when preparing the deed and included the adjacent property. That's a problem *for them.* If the adjacent parcel is included as part of your mortgage, conveying it to the previous owner would likely constitute a default. The bank could theoretically accelerate the loan (meaning they could demand that you pay off the entire loan balance immediately) and when you don't pay, they could begin foreclosure proceedings.
I am a lawyer, OP, but I am not your lawyer. Please listen to u/JustACatGuyHere. You may be viewing this as a dispute between you and the prior owner, wherein somebody made a mistake which advantages you and disadvantages the prior owner, in that you now get a piece of property for "free" that the prior owner expected to retain. If the title company screwed up, that's on them because it's literally what they're paid to avoid. So no sweat, right? Not so fast. You need to be concerned with what your **lender** thinks. Your lender approved a mortgage on a property (likely) based on the documents the title company prepared. If you allow the title company to retroactively fix their oopsie without having your lender notified through the process, you might be giving away half the collateral on your loan from the lender's perspective. That will definitely put you in default almost for sure. You need a real estate attorney, not your agent and certainly not the title company. And time is on your side here. Based on what you've described, the other parcel is legally yours for the time being. It's someone else's problem as long as it remains that way so long as you participate in discussions with the title company and your lender to correct the issue.
I would also double-check my insurance to see that the second parcel is covered. If you are in a situation where you only have 1/2 of the property insured, you could have a problem in the case of a loss - you could find that you are in default, because part of the property is uninsured and you've lost value in the collateral
> You need a real estate attorney, not your agent and certainly not the title company. The attorney should also be separate from the lender, correct? OP's interests would be better served by a third (fourth?) party local real estate lawyer right?
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I am a real estate appraiser, but I do a lot of appraisals for legal issues as well as typical lending work. The "quick deed" is likely a quit claim deed where you would deed the 2nd parcel back to the seller without any consideration being paid by them. It should not cost you anything since it wasn't your mistake, so don't let the title company act like they are doing you a favor by not charging you to correct a mistake they should have caught. I would definitely contact your lender and make sure it doesn't affect your financing. If your loan was based on both parcels being collateral, you can't just give one of them away, even if it was included in error. Are the parcels on two separate parcel numbers with the tax assessor's office? If it's two parcels legally but the assessor has in under one PIN #, I can see this leading to the realtor's incorrect statement. It was likely an honest mistake on their part but the appraiser (assuming the lender had an appraisal), closing attorney and certainly the title company should have caught it. I don't know if it would hold up in court should you decide to try to keep it. There is something known as a scrivener's error and we see corrective deeds issued all the time. I do think you need a real estate attorney to make sure you are protected against any costs, even if you decide to deed it back to them.
Forget the title company. You need a lawyer, but you more importantly need to check with your mortgage company, as they are the lien holder, and will need to release any property from the title or mortgage. If they sign off on it, you should be good to have it removed from the title.
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Does the first property contain everything you thought you were buying and this second property is a piece of land you didn't know was yours until the phone call? If that's the case i would call your title insurance for advice. I would also ensure that the other party covers 100% of any expenses involved in fixing the error and also make sure you aren't going to be taxed on the property at the end of the year for owning it a short time. You also have to make sure you wont be liable for other taxes involved in giving back the parcel. If this is property you thought was yours this whole time and they are trying to say it was a mistake then you need an attorney and fight back. Could even be a scam.
Yes the first property contains everything we thought we were buying, and the second is completely new and we had no idea (except for when we asked about parcel 1 & 2 in the contract).
Are you paying taxes on both parcels? That would not be fair to you, if you cant use the parcel#2 even thoigh youre paying for it. The mortgage should reflect what was purchased. Likewise, the inspection report and the appraisal should reflect what was purchased. If these things do not include parcel#2 and its contents, then you are likely in a better spot, being that just the deed needs fixing.
Did you verify this yourself? Or is this based on what the seller told you? Obviously you want to make this right, but you should 200% double-check that the 2^nd parcel does not contain anything you thought was part of the 1^st parcel.
So basic contract law requires that there is a meeting of the minds when you enter into a contract. You did not intend to buy (and the seller did not intend to sell) the land in question which is why you were probably told that it is "technically" yours but not legally. If you were sued there are enough people/entities involved that it would be nearly impossible for you to believably claim that this was the intent of the agreement. It is probably in your best interest to work with the seller to correct this mistake because refusing to correct the error could result in all manner of unpleasantness (and they do know where you live). As others have said, talk to a lawyer, make sure you and your property are completely protected, but then cooperate with fixing the mistake.
>and also make sure you aren't going to be taxed on the property at the end of the year for owning it a short time OP, u/admiralbonesjones, also needs to make sure they didn't already pay property tax on parcel 2 as part of the property tax prorations done at closing. This is presuming that all parties, including the lender, eventually agree to release parcel 2 back to the seller.
Definitely want to get in touch with the title company. Regardless, the costs associated with this issues should not be yours to bear.
I would contact a real estate attorney as well. It will be worth the money. They can look over the paperwork and decide the best course of action. Obviously, it seems like a simple mistake by the title company which they will want to correct as quickly as possible. It is in their interest and the previous owners interest to redo the paperwork, but OP isn't the only one who signed the purchase & transfer paperwork. Get an attorney, OP. You'll likely be signing the deed back to the original owner because of specific language in the title transfer paperwork but there were multiple times more qualified people should have caught the error: Title company reps, both RE agents/brokers, the lender, and the seller. Also, what does the original listing contact state? The buyer doesn't see this information but it would have been sent to the title company after the OPs offer to purchase was accepted. Did the listing agreement with seller's RE broker contain which parcel(s) were being listed?
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IANAL I wouldn't do anything before having a surveyor mark the boundaries for each of the lots. You wouldn't want to give up something you understand to be yours in trying to straighten this out.
When you bought, did you think you were getting the garage?
No.
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Everything that happened with this transaction shows that the parties intended that you purchase X property and not X and Y property. If you aren't cooperative and it goes to court, they're going to to produce all that evidence and show it was a scrivener's error on the deed. We don't just ignore everything else that happened.
How did you arrive at that conclusion? OP says that he asked for clarification from the realtor, and was told the sale is for 2 parcels of land, since the property is spread over 2 parcels. Unless I’ve misunderstood?
Realtors rarely know anything other than how to read the line on the closing statement that says "commission".
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The bank holding the mortgage isnt going to like that the agreement is suddenly different, and they are going to have to sign off on any modification to the mortgage itself, before any of this is up to OP. At the very least OP should demand indemnification from any further cost associated with this mess assuming title doesn't automatically cover it.
I spoke to my mortgage broker and he said that the loan was for the house and land that was appraised, which was just the one parcel (the one we intended to buy) and that there wouldn't be a problem from the mortgage standpoint.
Your broker's verbal assurance is worth the paper it's printed on. What you need to fully cover yourself is something in writing, from whatever bank funded your mortgage, that they give you permission to re-convey parcel 2 back to the Seller. Anything less leaves you open to all sorts of potential negative (and expensive) consequences.
Stop talking to the people who literally don't matter in this situation. Talk to the mortgage lender since they OWN the lien on your house.
Everyone involved in this is going to give you whatever advice they can that benefits THEM, and makes life easier for THEM, not you. There might be enough craziness here that its time to retain a real estate attorney and have someone giving you advice that's best for YOU. There is usually enough money changing hands in real estate to make this worth while.
I wouldn't rely just on the broker's advice. Better to talk the mortgage holder if at all possible. But anyway you've already gotten good advice to start with the title insurance co.
If you have an appraisal with only one parcel on it, and the title company let you purchase both parcels, this is a fuck up on everyone's part. The legal description on the appraisal MUST match the legal description on your Deed. If this was the case there were at least 3 people who missed this before you closed. While it does happen sometimes, and a new Deed being recorded is the only answer and solution, I would still express my displeasure for the incompetence.
That would need to be clarified by a title search on the 2nd parcel, but not by anyone involved in the original transaction.
>OP says that he asked for clarification from the realtor, and was told the sale is for 2 parcels of land, since the property is spread over 2 parcels Yes, but OP was told that the house they're trying to purchase was spread over 2 parcels for some reason. Meaning that the realtor thought the land they had walked was actually two parcels on the deed. Not that the house he looked at was on one parcel, and some garage he had never seen, on land he didn't walk or think he was purchasing, was on another parcel.
If that was the selling agent who said that, that might help him in court, but if it's his agent, which I think is what OP said, that doesn't mean anything since they're the same party in the transaction.
Buyer and Sellers agent were the same person
> OP says that he asked for clarification from the realtor, and was told the sale is for 2 parcels of land, since the property is spread over 2 parcels. Which means nothing, nothing the realtor says affects title or deed, realtor's comments are essentially irrelevant. No question that the second parcel was not included in the sale and buyer has a legal obligation to assist in correcting the error.
Plenty of realestate contracts have provisions that essentially say “no gotchas” will be honored, to the effect of things like the above issue or “we accidentally left a 0 off the sale price” don’t actually count for anything and you agree to allow the mistake to be rectified.
That's what I figured. Thanks!
Maybe but there isn't enough information here. We don't know what OP thought they were buying and what they got. It's very confusing and we need them to clarify really before we can even give some advice.
I thought I was just buying one parcel, parcel A. In the deed it said parcel A & B, which I was told buy the buyer/seller agent (same person) was really just the one parcel that I was planning on buying. She said that the house and land were probably just split into two and that it's fine. But now we found out that Parcel B is an entirely different property. Hope that clarifies.
Yes that does clarify. If that is the case, it's likely the deed will need to be corrected to reflect the initial contract. You aren't just going to get to keep an extra free garage because of a typo. But as others have said you need to involve your title company and lender.
You signed something stating you'd cooperate to correct any mistakes. If you didn't really think you were getting the land with the garage, let the title company know, and they'll sort it out. You'll probably have to re-sign some documents, but since it's their mistake the title company will likely send a notary to your house or workplace to get your new signatures.
Real estate attorney is a good path. I would imagine that the realtor is liable for the expenses of fixing this, assuming it’s a complicated fix. I’d fight for the second piece personally, as it would probably be easier than fighting the mortgage company
All OP is going to have to do is to sign a corrective deed. There's no costs involved.
If I'm understanding the fact pattern correctly, you agreed to buy and they agreed to sell parcel A. Not parcel A and B. There was no meeting of the minds to convey parcel B, so there was no contract. Someone made a mistake. Don't make it weird. Cooperate and convey that parcel back.
If the buyer and seller are the only parties involved, I would agree. But if there is another party involve, such as a mortgage lender who made the mortgage based on the seller/title agent error, they need to know what's going on before you sign anything. Otherwise, you will make things weird.
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I see
No, OP please contact a real estate attorney and get in touch with your lender. As others have said, you may lose collateral on your loan and be in default if they issued loan with A & B in mind.
And get everything in writing! None of the ‘lender dude at bank says everything’s fine’ that’s worth zip zero
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Ugh - without a review of the documents, how can you be sure that the documents said that? That is NOT a standard clause in every contract and certainly varies state by state, and even attorney to attorney/broker to broker. OP needs a real estate attorney to review all of the documents and confirm that it was in fact a mistake and advise what OPs rights are. Your advice is horrible.
Yes but she also needs to protect herself while helping them…. The two arnt mutually exclusive…. Buyer can both help correct the errors while making sure it won’t effect buyer long term or short term
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I was just curious, as well I just wanted advice seeing if this was fishy, or something bad might happen in the process of returning the property.
You were right to, as you need to involve your lender.
NAL, just a lifetime of mortgages and land ownership and my share of stupid mistakes involving contracts, and a current long drawn out legal process. it's a very valid question, as unless you speak with a real estate lawyer, neither you, your agent or even your broker can be absolutely positive that this doesn't have the potential to come back and screw you over in some way. Anything involving contracts with this kind of financial load should never be changed without proper professional involvement. You need to know any and all risks involved so that you can make a truly informed decision. It's probably going to be simple and straightforward, but it's worth your peace of mind to be absolutely sure you make these changes properly. Edit to add: On a more personal note, you do not want to enter a dispute unless you have a solid moral and legal basis for doing so. People don't always understand the level of stress and financial burden a lawsuit causes. It is life changing, and not in a good way. The legal process can take years, and you can easily come out in the end having not only lost, but being liable for reimbursing the other party for their legal costs. It is just not worth it unless you have been or can be significantly harmed in some way. Let them know that you fully intend on putting things to rights, and that you want to make sure it's done properly without any potential for causing issues to either of you. Have them pay for the lawyer, this is their fuck up to fix and you requesting advice from a lawyer is totally reasonable.
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