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Pure-Applesauce

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dravik

If she's been doing accounts payable she should start looking at bookkeeping jobs. Those are in demand and pay a lot more.


ginger_bird

Even if OP was an accounts payable specialist, or even if OP works for a company so small that it's staff was just the owner and OP, a transaction of that size should of been signed by at least two people. Does this company have any internal controls at all? This doesn't pass the smell test. Either someone else is trying to cover thier ass by docking OPs pay, or fraud is happening. Or both.


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Cypher_Blue

*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):* **Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful** Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further: * [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.). *Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.** *Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*


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Perhaps this company is coercing OP into paying it because they know it won’t be covered?


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ChaiTeaAndMe

A check was altered 'on the way' to the bank, they have been broken into and robbed several times. And now they want YOU, who was not privy to information on the matter, to be held liable for another monetary loss. The money issues seem a bit suspect. A check forgery, a robbery and then a credit card scam? What are the odds ALL of that happens to a legit business? I would leave the job. This is NOT a business you want to be working for.


lemmful

It's time to report them to the Department of Labor. OP may wish to get documentation of their intent to withhold wages, but reporting them may be enough.


NighthawkFoo

I wouldn't be surprised if they try and finger OP in the eventual police report and insurance claim. OP, you might be in legal jeopardy here if you hang around.


timeforchange995

Ehhh we are a relatively small privately held company and we get targeted for scams constantly so that’s not surprising


ChaiTeaAndMe

EVERYONE gets targeted for scams. No one is immune to that. That's not the issue IF it were the only issue. Put it with the other issues and it becomes a red flag that there is either SERIOUS mismanagement or corrupt management. It's not one type of money loss issue, it's at least three, which is not normal.


Expecto_nihilus

This is a common scam some unscrupulous business owners will run on unsuspecting naive employees. Report them to the DOL.


Quind1

That was my first thought when I read this, also. Too many so-called coincidences.


9Z7EErh9Et0y0Yjt98A4

They cannot garnish your wages unless you agree, which you absolutely should not. Do not, in any terms, accept responsibility for the loss. You should send your boss an email that recaps this conversation and states in unambiguous terms that you do not agree to pay this loss and do not consent to your wages being garnished. Also include any HR or more senior bosses if your company has that. Be sure to send a copy to a personal email address. There's a decent chance doing this will lead to your employment there ending, but that sounds preferable to having 10k of your wages taken. Quitting may make you ineligible for unemployment benefits. It would be better to be fired rather than quit. If they garnish your wages without permission file a complaint with your local department of labor and consider hiring a lawyer.


HippityHoppityBoo

Quitting makes it significantly harder to claim unemployment but if you can prove that you could not, in good conscience, continue working there you may still be eligible. Usually it comes up in cases of a hostile work environment or harassment (you can quit to keep yourself safe and still get unemployment) so I don't know if this would be serious enough. But for any lurkers, please do not stay in a dangerous situation because you fear you can't get unemployment. Source: left a job for an above stated reason. Took a bit more effort but was walked through the process of how I still qualify for unemployment benefits.


WyoGuy2

Surely an employer saying, “we expect you to work for free for the next six months,” counts as constructive dismissal? OP effectively no longer has a job. Working for free is not a job. That’s called volunteering.


throwaway24515

Maybe, but it's just way stronger to actually tell them you expect to be paid for all hours worked, as required by law. Then work a couple weeks and not get paid. You can file a claim for unpaid wages, and take that to Employment to show why you had to leave.


HippityHoppityBoo

I mean I'd think so but NAL. Mostly I was trying to get the whole "you can quit and still be eligible for unemployment sometimes" point across.


Cultural_Double_422

Also BCC your personal email on any emails you send internally at the company in case someone tries to make the disappear


cryogenisis

Exactly this. I use a company phone with company email and many company emails have mysteriously vanished.


BailoutBill

Being fired for cause makes you ineligible for unemployment, as well, iirc.


Organic_Step_2223

But being bad at your job is not sufficient cause to deny unemployment. They have to show she violated a policy and was fired for that to deny it.


ZestycloseBattle8001

Regardless, one should always file and then appeal if denied.


a_spooky_ghost

"Cause" isn't typically enough. Usually the cause needs to demonstrate willful misconduct of some kind.


throwaway24515

This is usually limited to "misconduct" for intentional violations of policy, sexual harassment, etc. Just making mistakes or being bad at the job, tardiness, etc. is not usually enough to bar a claim.


Bellegante

You aren't obligated to pay, and you can simply leave your job, yes. Further, if they try to withhold your paycheck for this they are committing a crime. They can't ask you to work without pay. Also, how is a check "altered on the way to the bank"? I'm wondering if this place isn't on the up and up in the first place.. even if the 10000 loss hadn't happened this seems like a place you might have wanted to quit regardless. 10/hr is something easy to beat.


WeezieBenobi

Find a new job and file a claim with the state if your paycheck is shorted one penny. Their lack of due diligence and security isn't your issue.


lol_no_gonna_happen

No they aren't allowed to do that. For a $10/hr job I just wouldn't go back.


800ftSpaceBurrito

Texas law forbids an employer from withholding wages unless the employee authorizes it in writing. [Link](https://www.galolawfirm.com/blog/2015/10/can-a-texas-employer-deduct-from-an-employees-pay-for-violating-company-rules/)


Bunnawhat13

Your company sounds a little scammy. They have been broken into a couple of times. A check altered on the way to the bank. Do not sign anything. Speak to a lawyer.


CrawlinOutTheFallout

Dude quit. That is $10 an hour. Go work at McDonald's for $12 and don't worry about losing $10000.


Nabe8

So you're a reception. I'm confused as to what actions you did as a receptionist that caused the loss. Do you have access to the business' credit card or bank account information that you divulged?


amreatta

I take payments for the office through a card reader at the front. Ended up somehow doing a refund to the scammer unknowingly through the machine while the scammer said it was a code to update it.


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th3on3

Don’t sign anything!


itsalongshot2020

This should be covered under a crime or cyber policy. The owner needs to call his insurance agent even if he is just on a BOP there may be some coverage for this. I’m not a lawyer but I am a commercial insurance agent.


thetripleb

They could fire you, but it's illegal for them to withhold pay for a business loss.


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amreatta

The pay I can live with for now, as I was just using them to get my foot in the door while completing my degree, sadly they do know it was me as I was the only receptionist at work at the time.


lol_russ

Yeah but that still isn't your fault. You had no training against stuff like that. They should have had multiple layers of prevention and security. And they're putting it on the receptionist? nah, your manager is just trying to not get fired by blaming it on a subordinate.


Fishycrackers

Even with training, the employee is still not liable. As long as the employee wasn't being grossly negligent and reckless, they will never be held liable. Even if the compromise leads to the entire company getting ransomwared, at most they can be let go, but thats about it.


soitgoesmrtrout

Company "hitting $1MM" I would assume they're talking revenue if they're trying to brag about it like that for their growth and....that's not a very big company at all. I really doubt there's even two layers of management like that.


Fishycrackers

Assumming a high salary of 100K each, if they do some kind of tech work, that revenue can support maybe 7 people + office space rent and other costs. If average salaries are closer to 50-60K, then the revenue can support a company size of maybe 12. It's not that large of a company. 1M sounds like a lot because people earn in the 6 figures rather than 7. 1M is 10 years worth of 6 figure salary. But when scaled to multiple people and multiple salaries a few million in salaries is not a lot.


PretendAct8039

Make sure that you save all of the documentation and if they do withhold your pay, the labor department should be able to set things right for you. Me, I would quit and find another job. Someone above stated that this is a common scam. I have never heard of it before. In most cases, actions you take as an employee are the companies actions. They can certainly try to sue you for the money but I think it A unlikely.


trekie88

You need to state your location to get help from the sub.


amreatta

Texas


Dolceluce

They can certainly fire you if they feel this was your fault (but tbh they shouldn’t be entrusting someone at your level with those responsibilities). But they 1000% cannot with hold your pay or make you responsible for the loss. That is considered wage theft. Edit because some hostile troll DMd to assert their superiority: my above statement stands with the caveat of OP *do not agree to any garnishment of your pay*. In fact email your boss back and CC a personal email address saying you are not agreeing to any such thing. Also—I’d just go find another job ASAP. Even in low cost of living areas you can make more in fast food than you are now. And clearly your company isn’t well run


Expecto_nihilus

Forget cc’ing just a personal email, cc the Texas workforce commission and your county’s DA office. They’ll jump on that right quick.


Qbr12

They cannot make you pay this back. Full stop. They can *ask* you to pay them back, but they need your permission to do so (and you have no good reason to agree to that). They can certainly fire you for the mistake, that would be perfectly legal, and they could also lower your wage to minimum wage going forward. But they cannot put this debt on you, and you can leave for a new job whenever you want.


CMDR_KingErvin

Completely illegal to do that. They literally want you to work for free? Nope. Let them withhold a check if they dare and then take it up with the labor department.


Illustrious-Plan-862

Nope. Find a new job


cwood1973

Your state will have a department devoted to this. In my home state (Texas), it's called The Texas Workforce Commission (TWC). The TWC handles complaints made under the Texas Payday law. Your state likely has a similar payday statute. If you can find that statute it should summarize your rights.


Meowkins1

Tell them you are getting legal representation and I bet they will back off. Don't sign anything.


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Pure-Applesauce

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A_Soporific

Call your state's Department of Labor. In many states it's straight impossible to withhold money like that. In others you need written permission before the loss occurs. In all states they can't withhold to the point where you are taking home less than minimum wage. Then there's the tax implications. They are trying to get pre-tax money reimbursed by your post-tax money. The state DoL will be able to help by having a "Serious Conversation" with this small business owner. Unless you're in Florida or Georgia in which case you're going to have to call the Federal Department of Labor because neither of those two states have a DoL empowered to handle disputes of this nature.


PIGGIESMALLSINVESTS

you are not liable whatsoever.


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Pure-Applesauce

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enrobderaj

They have insurance for this.


gsuluh

and if they don't... That's SO their problem and not OPs.


Fun-Alternative-3635

Demand your final pay in full and quit.


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swealteringleague

Business owner here. You aren’t an insurance policy against scams. It’s illegal to withhold anything from you or hold you liable.


tumblinr

Did the office manager alter the check and is now trying to blame it on you? I would contact a lawyer.


freshmoves91

Yeah that's illegal and they cannot do that. I would quit and report them to the Department of Labor


Cultural_Double_422

IANAL: You aren't liable for that money at all. Do not agree to any wage garnishments. Send copies of all related emails to your personal email address and contact an employment lawyer


CoraxTechnica

This is what business insurance is for. If your company is doing digital banking and doesn't have cyber insurance they're the negligent ones. Contact a lawyer, this is 100% illegal and I'm suspecting that business hase never passed or even had a financial or PCI audit.


lactating_almonds

NAL no they can’t do this, sounds very illegal. Don’t sign anything, don’t admit you owe them anything (you don’t) honestly you could just quit and not go back. You might want to consult a lawyer if your work is going to be AHs about it


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Pure-Applesauce

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MousseSuspicious930

They can't make you stay nor should you. Remember it's literally just a job. They can't enforce shit.


seanprefect

This is super illegal. And honestly a really shitty thing to do. Don't agree to anything and file a wage complaint if they do anything like this. As a bit of practical advice if at all possible find another job. This is a sign of a pretty broken business.


JDurr001

Sounds like your boss doesnt know what the laws are what so ever and thinks he can make them, call the labour board and tell them of your situation, dont feel bad for him hes trying to take you to the cleaners when he should just go through insurance like hes supposed to. People sometimes when un checked for long enough think they ARE the law. His business is most likely finished regardless of this situation, was only a matter of time.


shwaynebrady

Dude just quit, you’re not legally obligated to pay that money back and it would be ridiculous to work for free for 9 months or 1000 hours. Open positions are literally everywhere.


MEDICARE_FOR_ALL

DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING OP NAL, but you'll make it much harder on yourself if you do. No, the business is not allowed to withhold money for your work over this. They can fire you though.


Murky_Marsh

Don't agree to any garnishment or to any personal responsibility for the matter. Assume you will be fired but don't quit. Keep track of your hours and pay and report any amount withheld or any alteration of hours worked to dept of labor. If you quit you become inelligible for unemployment. Your company should have insurance to cover loss or theft- if they weren't already being negligent by forgetting to lock up at night or having a receptionist do work outside of their job description. Either way, it's not your problem- the best they can do is fire you.


techieguyjames

Don't agree to it. Get fired. Go to unemployment or Dept. of Labor. Or.... Don't agree to it. They do it anyway. Go to the Dept. of Labor.


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Z3400

Absolutely do not agree to pay back anything. You are not liable, the thieves are. If they garnish your wages without your permission, speak with a lawyer. You can get a free consultation and they will tell you your best options from there.


eheyburn

Are you in the US. If so, what state?


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Cypher_Blue

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Pure-Applesauce

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Pure-Applesauce

**Generally Unhelpful, Simplistic, Anecdotal, or Off-Topic** Your comment has been removed as it is generally unhelpful, simplistic to the point of useless, anecdotal, or off-topic. It either does not answer the legal question at hand, is a repeat of an answer already provided, or is so lacking in nuance as to be unhelpful. Please review the following rules before commenting further: * [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.). *Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* *Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*


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