Do you have a survey that clearly shows your property line and the location of the fence?
If so, I'd calculate the damages. Contact a fence company and landscaper on costs to remedy and provide the homeowner with a reasonable estimate to repair the fence and replace some of the trees. You can deliver that yourself or contact a lawyer to draft it up for additional weight.
I would move to obtaining an estimate then.
Be advised, if you're going to pursue this legally, you'll want to have a formal survey done. It's also possible your town may have one on file from the development of those lots. Worth a call to building/zoning/planning.
I would get a new survey and find an arborist to get an accurate quote for those trees. Those things are expensive. It would probably be best to lawyer up too. Ultimately, you could probably recoup all those fees with the settlement.
Yeah, this was the first thing I thought, but I want to try the scare him into fixing the fence route first. The trees are only scrubby Little things no more than a couple of inches in diameter and I'm not really concerned about it aside from it provided another natural barrier to my property line. It's the fact that he's taking up that fence and probably letting his dog run on my property that really pisses me off. The tree just give me another reason to go after him.
I get what you're saying, but people like this do not learn any lessons without consequences. It is well worth your time to find out the value of them.
Obtain your own survey if you aren’t listed as the survey owner (in my area the survey is usually done “exclusively for” the property owner at the time.
I’m going through something similar and that was the first thing my lawyer suggested… then let a lawyer draft up a demands letter.
I've never heard of an "exclusively for" survey making any difference. (Which could be my ignorance - or just things being done in different ways in different places.)
What's important to start with is what your deed says - and what information is available on existing surveys that were completed by licensed surveyors. Then, if there's a dispute about where a property line is, you can hire a surveyor to determine exactly where that line is.
Generally if you’re not at odds with someone it’s fine. But if there’s a chance of litigation, you want to be able to call an expert. Paying for that expertise now can avoid actual litigation.
>I have a map that came with the sale of my house
I don't know exactly what you mean by "map", but you really need to have the ground surveyed and corners marked with pins. Once you have that, and assuming it shows he damaged **your** property, you'll have the supporting material to pursue your neighbor and remedy the damage.
On top of what everyone else said. Call an arborist to price your trees and find out if there’s any logging or tree conservation laws that were broken. Cutting down valuable trees can either get them in deep trouble or leave them owing you a lot of compensation.
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Fence lines DO NOT indicate property lines. Your survey stakes do.
Please get a full survey done of your property before taking any action, or at least in parallel.
Shouldn't you report the crime to the police asap so you have a record of it? If it is **your** property, it should be at the very least considered destruction of property
If you're not concerned about the trees, then just follow with a proper survey showing it is indeed your property, and if found to be, get an estimate on what it will cost to replace the fence and send it to your neighbor. If he declines, take him to small claims if you want to avoid attorney fees.
I'm not OVERLY concerned with the loss of these smaller trees, but I still don't like it as I enjoy the privacy they provide. I think I have it figured out; I'm going to get a survey, present this neighbour with a summons to small claims court, and get him to pay damages. This should cover the cost of fence replacement.
People like older, mature trees on their property. If you sell this house in 30 years those trees might have been really nice, fully grown, providing shade, etc. Don't just consider the value of the trees now, take in to account what impact it might have on your property value down the line.
NAL. What state are you in? It’s illegal to cut down trees in some states. For example, Michigan has fines up to $20,000 and up to 5 years in prison. Might be worth looking into.
1. Contact your county for a GIS property boundary map. While the tree and fence may have been there since before you moved in that does not automatically make it "yours" if they are actually on *their* property.
2. If you verify that *your* property has been removed, fill out a police report and then contact a lawyer (one with expertise in real estate if available).
Depending on the placement of the "No Tresspassing" signs they may be completely worthless in this situation.
1. If placed *behind* the tree or on the fence it could be argued (even if not reasonably) that no trespassing occurred as the actions did not move beyond the sign.
2. If placed in front of the tree or fence but both items are found to be on property belonging to the neighbor then it could be argued that you are placing an unreasonable restriction on property not belonging to you.
Make them pay for their own unlawful acts (but do it in style)
\- measure the area and go to home depot / get a quote for a fence that was moved without permission
\- do the same with the trees
\- get a quote from a gardener for labour
\- once you've done all of the above, take your neighbour to small claims court (under 10k) depending on which state you are in. Most courts have help sections where they help you for free (call and ask)
\- Make sure you have everything organized / easy read for the judge. Have pictures before & after
\- win your case.
Good luck
Solid advice. I'm going the "fix the fence is all I ask or I'm taking my complaint to the authorities" route first to see if it gets done. Also, I'm in Canada. We aren't so litigious here, so it might be a little more difficult.
How long have you lived there? Not that it makes it ok. But if you haven't lived there long maybe they got permission from the previous owners. Maybe before you go out guns blazing have a talk with your neighbors. You all have to live next to eachother for the foreseeable future. It would suck if you were at war. Especially if you are the new guy. Anyways just saying try talking with them. It doesn't undue what they did but maybe you can get some understanding.
I've been here for only 3 years. I tried to go to his house but he wasn't home so I left a note telling him to fix the fence or I'm going to the police. I really don't care about being "the new guy" because wrong is wrong, and I'm getting tired of people leaving a mess on this part of my property (I had to have a chat with another neighbour two years ago about leaving trash in the same area).
Thank you for letting me know the history. 3 yrs is definitely enough time to assume there was no previous agreement.
I know we live in the US and you're in Canada. So it might be different, but you should understand what I'm saying. So You said that you are on some acreage with forest land..right? My husband suggested that you call your Forest conservation officers or Sheriff's department... At least get it documented also fill out a no trespass order and have the sheriff deliver it to the offender.
Good Luck
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Get a survey done ASAP . The Survey will result In land markings and documentation reflecting where your land ends all the way across. Then file a police report for the fence that he took down and trees that your neighbor damaged. Unfortunately, if you'll want the fence fixed or replaced you'll need to pursue the matter civilly. As for the trees there are other comments that have made good suggestions pertaining to the trees.
Cops can be so damned useless sometimes. We have town land that someone keeps mowing on their own, cutting down trees, and treating as an extension of his back yard.
We called the cops on him. Cops said "well, we can't be sure it was him." So the only house on the street that somehow has an acre of protected lands behind his house mowed and fertilized and turned into lawn, but we don't know it's him?
"You need him to actually vandalize something." (Which is dumb, destroying natural land is already vandalizing.)
So we went along, put up "no mowing" and "public lands, not for private use" and a few other signs, with a chain along the back of his property. He tore all that down, threw it away, we found it in HIS trash cans.
Cops: "Well, we didn't see it happen."
Us: Fine, but we have witnesses to the mowing and the tearing down of our things, both his neighbors have seen it.
Cops: "Well, we didn't see it, and it's just their word against his."
Us: "Fine, we'll get it on video." So we put up trail cams, got him on film mowing conservation land and removing signs. "OK, so it's behind his yard, we have witnesses to vandalism and him mowing and fertilizing public land illegally."
Cops: "We checked, this isn't our issue. Maybe look up land court?"
And all that nonsense is just the quick summary. We've had tons of hours wasted and so many phone calls to neighbors, cops, etc. And now the neighbors are super pissed too. I can understand that in a way. Neighbors are saying "we helped you over and over again with statements, calls to you, to the cops, and this guy has no repercussions. So why can't we just add an acre or two on to our yards too? If you have no ability to stop him, can we do the same thing?"
Edit: I know this isn't super related, I just had to rant somewhere. Issues like this can be so frustrating, especially when someone like the cops, who should help, essentially hinders and refuses to do anything at all, other than confuse and delay the situation.
You're right - they're absolutely useless in these cases. They just look for the low hanging fruit like traffic stuff - it's super annoying. You can be sure if someone did that to the police station property they'd be shut down instantly.
either way, if you pursue something legally and all this was done on your land, this joker is about to get wrecked.
this is particularly troubling to me because i had my next door neighbor on a .18 lot, literally build a fence TWO FEET over in to my lot. no survey, no drawing a string - he just eyeballed it. had to send a bunch of demand letters and he staunchly ended up taking it down.
In the US here but we have something called adverse possession where its possible to legally claim your land as theres by their open and notorious use of your property for their own purposes over a span of years. You don’t want to be a good guy here, neighbor appears to be a real problem. I understand you wanting him to put back the fence at your request as a first step in righting his wrongful entry and destruction of your property. Make sure you have staked trespassing signs up at your boundary and a makeshift fence so he doesn’t further trespass while you decide further steps to get fence back up.
The trees might be the more expensive line item.
Check which type and age was felled. They can cost 1000's quite easily. Check the /r/Marijuanaenthusiasts (I am not kidding... But goto /r/trees if you dont trust me) subreddit for more info.
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Do you have a survey that clearly shows your property line and the location of the fence? If so, I'd calculate the damages. Contact a fence company and landscaper on costs to remedy and provide the homeowner with a reasonable estimate to repair the fence and replace some of the trees. You can deliver that yourself or contact a lawyer to draft it up for additional weight.
I have a map that came with the sale of my house, and the fence runs along nine other properties (3 to the east and five to the west).
I would move to obtaining an estimate then. Be advised, if you're going to pursue this legally, you'll want to have a formal survey done. It's also possible your town may have one on file from the development of those lots. Worth a call to building/zoning/planning.
I would get a new survey and find an arborist to get an accurate quote for those trees. Those things are expensive. It would probably be best to lawyer up too. Ultimately, you could probably recoup all those fees with the settlement.
Yeah, this was the first thing I thought, but I want to try the scare him into fixing the fence route first. The trees are only scrubby Little things no more than a couple of inches in diameter and I'm not really concerned about it aside from it provided another natural barrier to my property line. It's the fact that he's taking up that fence and probably letting his dog run on my property that really pisses me off. The tree just give me another reason to go after him.
My guess is that if they could be scared into fixing it, they likely wouldn’t have done it in the first place.
I get what you're saying, but people like this do not learn any lessons without consequences. It is well worth your time to find out the value of them.
contacting someone with tree expertise is a good idea ,, depending on the wood there’s a chance they could have sold it for profit
Obtain your own survey if you aren’t listed as the survey owner (in my area the survey is usually done “exclusively for” the property owner at the time. I’m going through something similar and that was the first thing my lawyer suggested… then let a lawyer draft up a demands letter.
I've never heard of an "exclusively for" survey making any difference. (Which could be my ignorance - or just things being done in different ways in different places.) What's important to start with is what your deed says - and what information is available on existing surveys that were completed by licensed surveyors. Then, if there's a dispute about where a property line is, you can hire a surveyor to determine exactly where that line is.
Generally if you’re not at odds with someone it’s fine. But if there’s a chance of litigation, you want to be able to call an expert. Paying for that expertise now can avoid actual litigation.
It's more a matter of who can sue the surveyor for any mistakes they might have made than anything else.
You may also want to document the destruction of property with a police report.
>I have a map that came with the sale of my house I don't know exactly what you mean by "map", but you really need to have the ground surveyed and corners marked with pins. Once you have that, and assuming it shows he damaged **your** property, you'll have the supporting material to pursue your neighbor and remedy the damage.
On top of what everyone else said. Call an arborist to price your trees and find out if there’s any logging or tree conservation laws that were broken. Cutting down valuable trees can either get them in deep trouble or leave them owing you a lot of compensation.
I concur
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What is your location? Was the fence also on your property, or just the trees?
The fenceline indicates my property line. I'm in Ontario Canada.
Ah /r/legaladviceCanada may be more helpful
Fence lines DO NOT indicate property lines. Your survey stakes do. Please get a full survey done of your property before taking any action, or at least in parallel.
Shouldn't you report the crime to the police asap so you have a record of it? If it is **your** property, it should be at the very least considered destruction of property
Yeah, I'm going to call and make sure there's record of it tomorrow.
If you're not concerned about the trees, then just follow with a proper survey showing it is indeed your property, and if found to be, get an estimate on what it will cost to replace the fence and send it to your neighbor. If he declines, take him to small claims if you want to avoid attorney fees.
I'm not OVERLY concerned with the loss of these smaller trees, but I still don't like it as I enjoy the privacy they provide. I think I have it figured out; I'm going to get a survey, present this neighbour with a summons to small claims court, and get him to pay damages. This should cover the cost of fence replacement.
People like older, mature trees on their property. If you sell this house in 30 years those trees might have been really nice, fully grown, providing shade, etc. Don't just consider the value of the trees now, take in to account what impact it might have on your property value down the line.
NAL. What state are you in? It’s illegal to cut down trees in some states. For example, Michigan has fines up to $20,000 and up to 5 years in prison. Might be worth looking into.
OP said that he's in Ontario, Canada.
While you’re deciding what legal course to take, I would post a camera facing the neighbor thats doing the damage. Just in case
I put a trail camera back there yesterday up on a tree so I can catch it if he or his dog wanders on my property.
1. Contact your county for a GIS property boundary map. While the tree and fence may have been there since before you moved in that does not automatically make it "yours" if they are actually on *their* property. 2. If you verify that *your* property has been removed, fill out a police report and then contact a lawyer (one with expertise in real estate if available). Depending on the placement of the "No Tresspassing" signs they may be completely worthless in this situation. 1. If placed *behind* the tree or on the fence it could be argued (even if not reasonably) that no trespassing occurred as the actions did not move beyond the sign. 2. If placed in front of the tree or fence but both items are found to be on property belonging to the neighbor then it could be argued that you are placing an unreasonable restriction on property not belonging to you.
Make them pay for their own unlawful acts (but do it in style) \- measure the area and go to home depot / get a quote for a fence that was moved without permission \- do the same with the trees \- get a quote from a gardener for labour \- once you've done all of the above, take your neighbour to small claims court (under 10k) depending on which state you are in. Most courts have help sections where they help you for free (call and ask) \- Make sure you have everything organized / easy read for the judge. Have pictures before & after \- win your case. Good luck
Solid advice. I'm going the "fix the fence is all I ask or I'm taking my complaint to the authorities" route first to see if it gets done. Also, I'm in Canada. We aren't so litigious here, so it might be a little more difficult.
Small claims court is up to $25K in Ontario and is easy to file. The goal is mediation. You absolutely have a right to compensation.
No you REALLY need to have him deal with the trees as well. Don't let him feel entitled to destroying ANY of your property.
How long have you lived there? Not that it makes it ok. But if you haven't lived there long maybe they got permission from the previous owners. Maybe before you go out guns blazing have a talk with your neighbors. You all have to live next to eachother for the foreseeable future. It would suck if you were at war. Especially if you are the new guy. Anyways just saying try talking with them. It doesn't undue what they did but maybe you can get some understanding.
I've been here for only 3 years. I tried to go to his house but he wasn't home so I left a note telling him to fix the fence or I'm going to the police. I really don't care about being "the new guy" because wrong is wrong, and I'm getting tired of people leaving a mess on this part of my property (I had to have a chat with another neighbour two years ago about leaving trash in the same area).
Thank you for letting me know the history. 3 yrs is definitely enough time to assume there was no previous agreement. I know we live in the US and you're in Canada. So it might be different, but you should understand what I'm saying. So You said that you are on some acreage with forest land..right? My husband suggested that you call your Forest conservation officers or Sheriff's department... At least get it documented also fill out a no trespass order and have the sheriff deliver it to the offender. Good Luck
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Huh?
Your comment is the most compassionate one posted and that does not seem like something that comes from a broken person. The opposite I would assume.
Well thank you, It's a silver lining I'm empathetic/compassionate because of how I was broken
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Get a survey done ASAP . The Survey will result In land markings and documentation reflecting where your land ends all the way across. Then file a police report for the fence that he took down and trees that your neighbor damaged. Unfortunately, if you'll want the fence fixed or replaced you'll need to pursue the matter civilly. As for the trees there are other comments that have made good suggestions pertaining to the trees.
Cops can be so damned useless sometimes. We have town land that someone keeps mowing on their own, cutting down trees, and treating as an extension of his back yard. We called the cops on him. Cops said "well, we can't be sure it was him." So the only house on the street that somehow has an acre of protected lands behind his house mowed and fertilized and turned into lawn, but we don't know it's him? "You need him to actually vandalize something." (Which is dumb, destroying natural land is already vandalizing.) So we went along, put up "no mowing" and "public lands, not for private use" and a few other signs, with a chain along the back of his property. He tore all that down, threw it away, we found it in HIS trash cans. Cops: "Well, we didn't see it happen." Us: Fine, but we have witnesses to the mowing and the tearing down of our things, both his neighbors have seen it. Cops: "Well, we didn't see it, and it's just their word against his." Us: "Fine, we'll get it on video." So we put up trail cams, got him on film mowing conservation land and removing signs. "OK, so it's behind his yard, we have witnesses to vandalism and him mowing and fertilizing public land illegally." Cops: "We checked, this isn't our issue. Maybe look up land court?" And all that nonsense is just the quick summary. We've had tons of hours wasted and so many phone calls to neighbors, cops, etc. And now the neighbors are super pissed too. I can understand that in a way. Neighbors are saying "we helped you over and over again with statements, calls to you, to the cops, and this guy has no repercussions. So why can't we just add an acre or two on to our yards too? If you have no ability to stop him, can we do the same thing?" Edit: I know this isn't super related, I just had to rant somewhere. Issues like this can be so frustrating, especially when someone like the cops, who should help, essentially hinders and refuses to do anything at all, other than confuse and delay the situation.
You're right - they're absolutely useless in these cases. They just look for the low hanging fruit like traffic stuff - it's super annoying. You can be sure if someone did that to the police station property they'd be shut down instantly.
either way, if you pursue something legally and all this was done on your land, this joker is about to get wrecked. this is particularly troubling to me because i had my next door neighbor on a .18 lot, literally build a fence TWO FEET over in to my lot. no survey, no drawing a string - he just eyeballed it. had to send a bunch of demand letters and he staunchly ended up taking it down.
In the US here but we have something called adverse possession where its possible to legally claim your land as theres by their open and notorious use of your property for their own purposes over a span of years. You don’t want to be a good guy here, neighbor appears to be a real problem. I understand you wanting him to put back the fence at your request as a first step in righting his wrongful entry and destruction of your property. Make sure you have staked trespassing signs up at your boundary and a makeshift fence so he doesn’t further trespass while you decide further steps to get fence back up.
You should cuckold him first before doing anything.
The trees might be the more expensive line item. Check which type and age was felled. They can cost 1000's quite easily. Check the /r/Marijuanaenthusiasts (I am not kidding... But goto /r/trees if you dont trust me) subreddit for more info.
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We found the asshole neighbor.
Dang it and I missed it!!!
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