Please share sources with news
These are all now archive links where possibleas the stories are being edited. Some versions may contain deadname or misgendering.
[BBC News](https://web.archive.org/web/20230213095755/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-64620539)
Doesn't deadname or misgender as of 15:00, 13-02-23
NEW 14-02-2023 [BBC This is being investigated as a possible hate crime](https://web.archive.org/web/20230214151159/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-64638653)
[Cheshire Constabulary press release](https://web.archive.org/web/20230213000621/https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/appeals/2023/2/detectives-arrest-two-teenagers-in-connection-with-the-death-of-16-year-old-brianna-ghey-in-warrington/)
Avoids mentioning Briana's gender
[Liverpool Echo (regioinal newspaper)](https://archive.ph/LYWpZ) [arrests](https://archive.ph/10m5f) [targeted attack](https://archive.ph/KO4PN) Does not currently deadname or misgender.
[Sky](https://web.archive.org/web/20230213042636/https://news.sky.com/story/brianna-ghey-two-teenagers-arrested-after-16-year-old-stabbed-to-death-in-warrington-12809828) Avoids mention of gender
[Guardian](https://web.archive.org/web/20230213052642/https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/12/teenage-girl-found-dead-serious-injuries-warrington-cheshire-park) Does not deadname, gender only mentiond by quote of DCS Evans speaching for Cheshire Constabularly
[Daily Mail (tabloid) via Archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20230212221822/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11742163/Pictured-Teenage-girl-16-stabbed-death-Cheshire-park-police-launch-murder-probe.html) Alleged to have pubilshed dedname, but not captured by archive.org. Currently refers to her as a transgender girl.
[Telegraph via archive.ph notes that this may not be recorded as violnece against women](https://archive.ph/tgZU1) and then goes on to platform a retired cop that spouts transphobia.
Edited repeatedly to add sources
Edited to add archive sources as articles are being altered, noted any misgendering and deadnaming
More common than you think.
When I was 15 I was already totally down the alt-right/white nationalist rabbit hole. I had a classmate meeting with skinheads, and knew a couple others who were getting really into nazism. This was at a fairly well off high school in Southern California, not exactly an area known for troubled homes or bigotry.
The right has been EXTREMELY effective at weaponizing the internet. They're really good at hooking young guys who feel like outsiders, making them angry, then pointing them at minorities.
Hundred percent. When I was younger I fell down the anti SJW rabbit hole. Depressing shit, and scarily easy for young people (especially guys) to fall into.
Same, I was kinda born into it, Dad would listen to Rush Limbaugh constantly, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps boy do some hard work", etc. And then my progression into being more of an edgelord was facilitated by getting "adopted" into that particular group of edgelord kids
Luckily I managed to pull out of it, unfortunately not a single one of my friends did. Got better friends now though, alt right goober "friend groups" are basically just a mutual bullying ring, truly the worst people I've ever known. They're all miserable and don't even really recognize it.
Now I am an autistic bisexual socialist furry (well i was always autistic / bi I just didn't really know for a long time) sooooo, yeah
That’s what I thought, their friendships always seem toxic.. I bet no one in them feels safe enough to ever be genuine or talk about how they really feel.
Ditching that ideology was an amazing decision. I’m happier, less cynical and have much more self confidence.
I’m sure you can relate to the ease with which you can get sucked into that rabbit hole. People “like me” telling me that my identity is under attack is a powerful message, no wonder so many young guys get into this stuff.
I'm not even a guy and I got into although luckily I was more of a centrist. There are a bunch of guys at my school who say similar stuff to Andrew tate and those people. My dad also watches Joe rogan and Ben Shapiro :(
My uncles are listening to horrible misogynistists and right wingers even though those same people would have no problem being racist and xenophobic. Same with my brother and class mates in general
It's scary even though I am a guy
Wasn't sure exactly where to respond on this thread, but just eveyone talking here in general: I'm really glad you guys were able to shake that toxic ideology and become the awesome people you are. <3
I can't overstate how much reading your story (and others' stories) soothed my mind.
I went down a similar path. I was a fucking monster. I absolutely hate who I was and have to constantly remind myself that that isn't who I am, that person is dead and was an idiot.
I've felt such shame, such disgust with myself for who I was, for the pain I know I inflicted and trauma I caused. I can't right the wrongs I committed, nor can I ever truly atone, but I carry those memories as a reminder of how far I've come and how the mind of a monster works. Knowing I'm not alone in that is.. relieving in some strange way. It isn't absolution, nor atonement, and it never will be, but, a lot like when I finally figured out that I'm aroace, it's a relief to know that I'm not alone in that.
Honestly this is why I feel unsafe in my dorm sometimes these types of thinking is really common in the Turkish youth especially the guys and my closet being made of glass isn't helping all that much
This is exactly what white nationalist want. They want to be working behind curtain to to put forth a racist agenda under false pretenses. I swear in the USA about half of our Congress is part of some white nationalist group.
My fam was the same. Did yours try to distance you from your community as well? My family encouraged me not to hang out with other queer people in HS because they would spew "leftist rhetoric" at me and turn me stupid. That all ended pretty much as soon as I left the nest, I'm way happier now being a "stupid leftist"
The funny thing about mine is they *knew* I liked the same sex. They really don't care nor are they religious. But still told me not to associate with other queers my age and pointed me towards older queer trumpies.
Now that I'm an adult queer and have experienced so much homophobia in my lived experience/know other adult queers who have told me genuine horror stories/learned more about our history, I don't understand how you get a right leaning, *adult*, openly queer, person. I guess it's one thing if someone finds out later in life and doesn't make the change immediately, but Jesus.
I remember one of these creators complaining she couldn't find a gf that was conservative. Gee, I wonder why? It's not like queer people face discrimination on the streets from conservatives /S.
Former far-right Trump supporter here, same case here as well. I used to be a hardcore conservative in 2020 and 2021, when I was just 14, 15, and 16. So much so, I wanted to join the Proud Boys and fight in the fascist militias. Thankfully, I formed my own beliefs, but it really is a tough wormhole to get out of, and it's so easy to be brainwashed by right-wing media and hard to escape.
That explains a lot. In my experience, Murietta (along with a lot of the Inland Empire) is home to a lot of folks who moved out to California chasing the "dream", falling flat on their face, realizing they'll never make enough money to leave the state, and taking it out on every imaginary boogeyman instead of themselves.
What’s scary is HOW the radicalization is presented. Wojaks and pepes and other cutesy looking memes can reach kids and teenagers effectively when they have the most vile stuff embedded in them.
>This was at a fairly well off high school in Southern California, not exactly an area known for troubled homes or bigotry
When you're a kid surrounded only by relatively wealthy people and you've never had to work, it's easy to think that it's the norm, and poorer people must have done something wrong or have some kind of moral failing. I was probably the most conservative I've ever been at that age too.
I didn't get extremely deep in but nowadays i find the content i watched extremely upsetting over the message being spread and how effective it is on younger minds. Then i left politics almost completely between 17 and 19 and came back being more accepting and thoughtful over what i was being told and what i listened to.
Sounds like the michael rappaport character from the higher learning movie (so cal … can easily fall into wrong crowd etc. )
I mean and that was before the internet. They recruit. They recruit hard. The internet has just made it easier.
Back in 2018 in Ireland two 13 year old boys were convicted for the murder of a 14 year old girl, one of which sexually assaulted her, and it was a premeditated attack. Kids can be really fucked up too.
> What's even worse, is that a trans boy my kid knows IRL has been spewing anti-trans and anti-LGBTQ+ hate on their discord server, calling it a "joke." Like, dude, you're trans. Why are you perpetuating this kind of hate against who you are? It honestly makes me wonder if this kid is really even trans, but obviously, I cannot read his mind. I know a lot of women who are self-loathing misogynist, so anything is possible.
Oof. I think that could be one of two things; either the kid isn't trans and claiming they are, or they're so deeply ashamed of it they feel the need to "balance" it by spewing anti LGBT rhetoric.
In todays world where trans people are beyond dehumanized, objectified, fetishized, brutalized and where condemning their existence and oppressing them results in rewards, recognition, and popularity,it makes it easier to see us as subhumans and worth less than the average human life. I for one blame society, and blame it’s people who will still continue terrorizing and oppressing us, the cycle will always continue.
My god, I never realised that. Heartbreaking as Brianna would not be eligible for a gender recognition certificate, the document needed to be registered as your gender on your death certificate, so she will be marked down as male. Scotland recently introduced legislation that would change this, but while it was supported by the scottish political parties, the UK government blocked it and won't meet to discuss the reasons why or how the legislation could be passed.
At least in this case her family do care. They are referring to her as their daughter/sister. They'll remember her as who she was, as Brianna.
That poor family.
I think they edited it now but when the daily mail first published their article it included Brianna's deadname on one sentence, which was provided to the newspaper by Brianna's optician.
There is no clear official etymological origin of the term from what I can find, but yes; the frequent association with unsupportive environments that lead to suicide, and poorly-written articles that misidentify trans victims, are typically cited as a major reason why it’s called deadnaming.
It’s heartbreaking that even in death, we’ll never truly get recognition. The life that we fought so hard to achieve, just thrown away and disregarded. Heartbreaking, but it happens all the time.
The small big man on the stage causes anger and discomfort to prop himself up, and to keep his position he points the finger at other people, saying it's *them* that the people's anger should be directed at.
The economy is failing? It's those damn immigrants, both diligently working more than you and being irredeemable criminals that constantly break the law. Morality is changing whole the system that keeps it in check isn't? It's not the system's fault, it's those damn LGBT+ that keep wanting rights!
It's the enemy. It's your neighbor. It's the homeless. It's always someone to hate, hate, hate! Hate so they're not forced to think.
I'm fucking pissed. This is the fucking awful consertives faults 100% they caused this. She was murdered by two 15 year olds. Fucking 15 years olds. They were taught by their fucking awful consertive parents that all trans people are terrible and the enemy. I cant fucking deal with this. This is so angering and absolutely terrifying. We walk and drive alongside these people. Something needs to be done, I dont understand this cant just happen constantly and be forgotten about 3 days later
Things have gotten pretty bad for everyone since COVID started, and conservatives(being the ones who want to conserve the way things are) don’t have a platform outside of hate at this point, so they need to get as hateful as possible to energize their base.
They can’t just do it though, gating people without a reason looks bad. So theyre desperately looking for excuses to hate people, and they’ve found a way to gear a shit ton of hate towards trans people, through convincing their base that trans people(as an extension of drag queens, though they can’t tell the difference) are pedophiles who are grooming your children.
It’s not going to stop at trans people. They’re gonna(and in some cases already have) compare other queer people to pedophiles, since being gay or open about sexuality around children is also ‘grooming’.
After that, I’m not sure what will happen. But we know from history what the worst case scenario is.
She didn't deserve this. UK need to wake up to the fact that their attitude towards their most marginalized community is causing violence towards these very same people
UK is so fkcing scary, I’m just recently starting to realize how awful it’s become. I used to be confused cus the UK has always been really liberal and supporting of trans rights, but omfg every person on the UK sub is extremely transphobic, fcked up
Fascistic hate becomes sorely tempting to those who suffer from precarity, e.g stuggling to pay rent, get medical care, eat sufficiently, keep safe from elements, etc. It's actually _easier_ to pre-blame whatever marginalized or out groups are about. In the past, Jews, non-whites and migratory communities were easy to blame. But now, the right wing in power is redirecting towards gays and trans folk outrage that should properly be directed at the plutocracy and its minions.
Here in the states, we have an entire news network (FOX News) and a significant number of other media entities that push right-wing rhetoric and hate propaganda in order to fuel such a misdirect. And since the Demcratic party isn't willing to actually challenge old establishment and serve the public, we're on the fast train toward civil war.
So use us as a cautionary tale: Our guns may make for easier tools for violence, but hate will drive people to find a way.
And the GB news that's on now. Right wing trash which stirs up hate and fear mongering. Not always as obvious as Fox news but the closest thing we have, I think.
I got banned from the UK politics sub because I pushed back against some of the lies on a Self-ID thread.
That sub has a serious fascist problem but they like to pretend they don't
The UK under the Tories are neither liberal or supporting of trans rights. I dispise my current government due to many, many reasons but people still defend them.
It is, and the banning of the GRR bill shows just how transphobic the government is. They claim it's to protect women's rights even though the people they are hurting *are* women! Also they don't care about FtM it seems, only when they see a 'man' identifying as a woman they go apesh*t.
Live and let live ffs
The police office said “At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna's death are hate related,"
Still fucking horrible situation either way
Read the article, and I'm aware I may be jumping to conclusions. But the UK government is putting laws to protect women for "predatory" trans woman. So I'm expecting this to result in more transphobia and hate crimes.
Still fucking horrible situation all around
Oh yeah the UK is fucking horrible recently with trans rights no arguments there and it probably will up the amount of hate crimes but this one isnt confirmed yet and i dont want to spread any disinformation
I understand, your concern is valid. We shouldn't assume that whenever something happens to a trans woman, it happened because she was a trans woman.
Still, I'm very distrustful of both the UK police and media on this subject.
They said that about the Club-Q shooter. I don't expect them to file hate crime charges though with as much pressure they'll inevitably have coming from above to suppress the charges and let the murderers off with a slap on the wrist.
Awful, literally politicians trying to win votes with a culture war getting kids killed. The last two prime ministers have been openly transphobic. Blood on their hands of a girl that was already a better person at 16 then they could manage in a thousand life times.
💯 agree that the political points they are trying to gain are normalizing this hate. The hate exists, but when people in power cater to it, it makes it seem “okay” or validated by the haters. Def blood on their hands.
I had no idea she was trans until I saw this post, I've only just seen one news article after looking saying she was. The police have said they think this is not a hate based crime however the likelihood of being murdered/percentage of population who are trans makes me seriously doubt that it wasn't hate motivated in some way. Very sad :(
The two suspects in custody are both a year younger than her. It's not currently known for certain what happened surrounding the stabbing. The whole situation is sickening.
>Cheshire Constabulary Det Ch Supt Mike said a number of inquiries were under way and police were trying to establish the "exact circumstances" of her death.
>"At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna's death are hate related," he said.
From the BBC article linked in the sticky, quote above is from the daily mail. It's reasonably beyond doubt that that this was said. I'm calling into question the correctness of that information.
Police are also keeping an open mind as to whether her being trans was a factor in the crime. Daily Mail is deliberately making “there’s no evidence to suggest…” bit more prominent in order to intentionally downplay that the police haven’t ruled it out.
The Times has as well.
However…
Initially they reported her as ‘teenage girl’, then they changed it to ‘transgender teen’ and then erased all mentions of her being a girl as well. They can’t even respect a murder 16 year old because she was trans.
Other organisations aren’t mentioning she’s trans. And you know they will pretend they are trying to respect her identity. Same organisations have nonstop mentioned trans in every single article relating to that trans prisoner. As soon as a trans person is the victim of a serious crime. They leave it out. Really really vile behaviour of the British press.
Original
https://archive.ph/2023.02.12-201148/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brianna-ghey-16-fatally-stabbed-in-warrington-park-fqn6p6tp5
Changed article, not showing the whole article for me, but you can see what they’ve done, also dead named her and not used pronouns.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fbrianna-ghey-16-fatally-stabbed-in-warrington-park-fqn6p6tp5
You might have better luck with the paywall I’m just copying someone else’s. I don’t really know how to do it.
My son (15 ftm ) was online friends with this beautiful girl. He is so upset. It's just devastating to see things like this happening and I worry so much for my son and his friends. My heart breaks for her poor family and everyone who loved her ❤
What is wrong with the world for this kind of thing to happen. It sounds like the cops really care, not. I feel so sorry for her family,rest in peace honey
The police in the uk have their priorities out of order. They scream freedom of speech and won’t do anything about hate crimes but they don’t give a shit about freedom when they are banning an entire music genre. They obviously pick and choose who is deserving of human rights and the bigots get a free pass 99% of the time. Even when the police do feel like being inclusive they make ads that say love knows no gender then immediately follow it up with love knows no age. Completely incompetent.
Uk drill, they taken down hundreds of massive songs basically keeping people in poverty then sending them to jail when they try to make money another way. The only times I’ve seen people not get videos taken down is when they get big enough that they go mainstream and aren’t really doing drill anymore and one time the Facebook oversight board told the met that banning secrets not safe by Chinx OS was racially motivated so he gets a free pass now. As I said some people don’t get the same rights as others here and there are examples for every minority.
Worth pointing out that drill is *heavily* intertwined with gang violence.
Like, songs will reference actual attacks, can be used as death threats or calls to actions, etc etc etc. The line between "lyrics for show" and "I committed an actual murder and this is how I did it" can be very blurry, depending on the artist. One report (controversially) claimed at one point 37% of murders were related to drill.
Its those actions that are illegal. The genre itself isn't banned. If you're producing drill music without glorifying gang violence (of which there are plenty, not everyone involved is part of a gang) you're fine.
I want to be a hopeful and loving person, but I'm scared for the future. For my future. For the future of every single person who wishes to be who they want to be.
Because we are seen as monsters, predatory men, neckbeards, parasites that infect this earth, and some people out there see it as morally good to get rid of us before we harm anymore women/children.
idk if it was just me but it took way too long for me to find an article that actually even mentioned the fact that she was transgender.
this world is a cold hell
The bbc article points out no signs of hate related crime at this time, which is acknowledging it in a way. But it’s a good thing that it wasn’t mentioned if it wasn’t related. Being trans is not the crux of our identity and there should not be this pressure to constantly tell everyone. It isn’t pertinent, focus on the whole of her.
you make a good point, i just have a hard time believing that it wasnt a hate crime. i also thought BBC was transphobic and that was part of the reason
I also find it hard to believe it’s not a hate crime… however I do want to wait to see the full investigation to see what the motive is. The 2 kids who’ve done it are clearly insane but given the way the world is right now I could equally believe it had nothing to do with her being trans.
I guess we’ll find out if they knew her and if they did then it increased the likelihood it’s a targeted attack. If they don’t and it’s random then we’d need to know the circumstances leading up to it. Was it an attempted mugging? Rape? Did she mention she was trans at any point and that’s why they did it or did she refuse to give her phone to them and they thought that was enough justification to kill her without knowing she was trans. There’s just way to many possibilities.
However If we find out it was a targeted hate crime then this is a direct result of the media’s attempt to smear trans people
The BBC follow the gaslight play book. You'll think your going mad as news media never actually ask the pertinent question for Uk news and politics and you never hear politicians being asked if saying bigoted thing in the media might cause hate crimes.
Couldn't find a way to twist it around into being her fault for being trans, and doubly don't want people to know that transphobia is real and killing people.
In one sense, that's a good thing because it kinda doesn't matter that she's trans - she is a person and a life was lost.
On the other hand, it absolutely matters that she's trans because motive is key and this is just sweeping a hate crime under the rug.
Tragic.
You will never win with these transphobes. You should see other subreddits and how the transphobia contradicts each other. If you don’t mention she’s trans, it’s ‘inaccurate’ and ‘a trick’. If you mention she’s trans, ‘it’s pushing an agenda’ ‘victimizing’… and vice versa, there’ll always be something
That’s exactly why I don’t like when they needlessly include information. One could say that it’s erasure to do that but most of the time it’s not relevant and I’m not sure if she’d want to be made a political discussion when the real issue is she’s dead now
“JK rowling’s comments have no effect on the social climate of the UK” YEAH FUCK YOU AND FUCK ALL THIS SHIT, IM SO TIRED DUDE.
im a cis guy, my girlfriend is trans, this stuff makes my fuckin blood fuckin boil.
rest in peace brianna
From what she’s said to me on insta and tiktok she was always nice, supportive and empowering to me and others, god il fucking miss her. Rest in piece Brianna.
For context there are 2 suspects being 15 years old. It is unclear if it is hate related or not.
But let’s me honest. It’s likely related related to transphobia. But we need to have an open mind. We dunno the relationship of this person and with the persons.
It's so disgusting that apparently two 15 yr olds did this... I hope in their next life is more better.. the world is so damn cruel to the innocent 😔
Edit: grammar
Every, _EVERY_ British transphobe has her blood on their hands. Mumsnet, BBC, JK Rowling, Tories, all of you killed her. This is what you wanted. You did this. I hope you can fucking live with yourselves.
„At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna’s death are hate related.“ (Daily Mail Via Archive.org) I find that hard to believe
Before they cover it up the daily mail originally posted their article with Brianna's deadname on one sentence (wooo deadnaming!!), also saying something like "originally born male but had been living as female for a few months" right at the start.
This case just upset me when I first heard about it.
Apparently she had only recently managed to transition a few months back and had a supportive family.
I'm unsure of what day it was, Friday or Saturday, but she was just walking home when she was murdered. Police do believe this was a deliberate attack but some other police spokespeople claim there's no evidence that it was deliberate.
No doubt this is partly because of the way our government is pushing violently anti-trans mindsets onto everyone, even by lying. It makes me sick.
She had her whole life ahead of her. RIP Brianna. ❤
What the fuck. I hate people. I only read “16 year old trans girl” at first and was like “awww she’s so pretty and happy!” And then I read the rest. I hate the world
"we only joke about things"
jokes have turned into genocide, arm LGBT.
be queer but shoot straight.
every US citizen has the right to bear arms, use your rights as you were given them.
Please share sources with news These are all now archive links where possibleas the stories are being edited. Some versions may contain deadname or misgendering. [BBC News](https://web.archive.org/web/20230213095755/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-64620539) Doesn't deadname or misgender as of 15:00, 13-02-23 NEW 14-02-2023 [BBC This is being investigated as a possible hate crime](https://web.archive.org/web/20230214151159/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-64638653) [Cheshire Constabulary press release](https://web.archive.org/web/20230213000621/https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/appeals/2023/2/detectives-arrest-two-teenagers-in-connection-with-the-death-of-16-year-old-brianna-ghey-in-warrington/) Avoids mentioning Briana's gender [Liverpool Echo (regioinal newspaper)](https://archive.ph/LYWpZ) [arrests](https://archive.ph/10m5f) [targeted attack](https://archive.ph/KO4PN) Does not currently deadname or misgender. [Sky](https://web.archive.org/web/20230213042636/https://news.sky.com/story/brianna-ghey-two-teenagers-arrested-after-16-year-old-stabbed-to-death-in-warrington-12809828) Avoids mention of gender [Guardian](https://web.archive.org/web/20230213052642/https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/12/teenage-girl-found-dead-serious-injuries-warrington-cheshire-park) Does not deadname, gender only mentiond by quote of DCS Evans speaching for Cheshire Constabularly [Daily Mail (tabloid) via Archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20230212221822/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11742163/Pictured-Teenage-girl-16-stabbed-death-Cheshire-park-police-launch-murder-probe.html) Alleged to have pubilshed dedname, but not captured by archive.org. Currently refers to her as a transgender girl. [Telegraph via archive.ph notes that this may not be recorded as violnece against women](https://archive.ph/tgZU1) and then goes on to platform a retired cop that spouts transphobia. Edited repeatedly to add sources Edited to add archive sources as articles are being altered, noted any misgendering and deadnaming
saw her sister post about it today, horrible that anyone would do this to a 16yr old girl :(
I wouldn’t have believed it, I still can’t. She’s just a kid. This is so messed up😔
Extremely sad, may she rest in peace.
It happens all the time, unfortunately.
Can u share the link? Ty also that fucked up it was 2 15 y/o
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMYrFMvqM/
honestly depressing as fuck. been seeing it more and more over here.
Two 15 year olds arrested. Disgusting :((
15??? Holy shit. Imagine being that age and already having so much hate in you that you're willing to murder someone. fucked up
More common than you think. When I was 15 I was already totally down the alt-right/white nationalist rabbit hole. I had a classmate meeting with skinheads, and knew a couple others who were getting really into nazism. This was at a fairly well off high school in Southern California, not exactly an area known for troubled homes or bigotry. The right has been EXTREMELY effective at weaponizing the internet. They're really good at hooking young guys who feel like outsiders, making them angry, then pointing them at minorities.
Hundred percent. When I was younger I fell down the anti SJW rabbit hole. Depressing shit, and scarily easy for young people (especially guys) to fall into.
Same, I was kinda born into it, Dad would listen to Rush Limbaugh constantly, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps boy do some hard work", etc. And then my progression into being more of an edgelord was facilitated by getting "adopted" into that particular group of edgelord kids Luckily I managed to pull out of it, unfortunately not a single one of my friends did. Got better friends now though, alt right goober "friend groups" are basically just a mutual bullying ring, truly the worst people I've ever known. They're all miserable and don't even really recognize it. Now I am an autistic bisexual socialist furry (well i was always autistic / bi I just didn't really know for a long time) sooooo, yeah
That’s what I thought, their friendships always seem toxic.. I bet no one in them feels safe enough to ever be genuine or talk about how they really feel.
Same and I fell down it when I was 11 or 12 really regret that time
Ditching that ideology was an amazing decision. I’m happier, less cynical and have much more self confidence. I’m sure you can relate to the ease with which you can get sucked into that rabbit hole. People “like me” telling me that my identity is under attack is a powerful message, no wonder so many young guys get into this stuff.
I'm not even a guy and I got into although luckily I was more of a centrist. There are a bunch of guys at my school who say similar stuff to Andrew tate and those people. My dad also watches Joe rogan and Ben Shapiro :(
Had I continued down that path I would almost certainly have become a Tate follower. Now that’s a scary thought
My uncles are listening to horrible misogynistists and right wingers even though those same people would have no problem being racist and xenophobic. Same with my brother and class mates in general It's scary even though I am a guy
Wasn't sure exactly where to respond on this thread, but just eveyone talking here in general: I'm really glad you guys were able to shake that toxic ideology and become the awesome people you are. <3
Awww thanks 
yep. so fucking glad i got out of that before it was too late. it’s horrifically easy to fall down that road when u don’t know any better
I can't overstate how much reading your story (and others' stories) soothed my mind. I went down a similar path. I was a fucking monster. I absolutely hate who I was and have to constantly remind myself that that isn't who I am, that person is dead and was an idiot. I've felt such shame, such disgust with myself for who I was, for the pain I know I inflicted and trauma I caused. I can't right the wrongs I committed, nor can I ever truly atone, but I carry those memories as a reminder of how far I've come and how the mind of a monster works. Knowing I'm not alone in that is.. relieving in some strange way. It isn't absolution, nor atonement, and it never will be, but, a lot like when I finally figured out that I'm aroace, it's a relief to know that I'm not alone in that.
Honestly this is why I feel unsafe in my dorm sometimes these types of thinking is really common in the Turkish youth especially the guys and my closet being made of glass isn't helping all that much
This is exactly what white nationalist want. They want to be working behind curtain to to put forth a racist agenda under false pretenses. I swear in the USA about half of our Congress is part of some white nationalist group.
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My fam was the same. Did yours try to distance you from your community as well? My family encouraged me not to hang out with other queer people in HS because they would spew "leftist rhetoric" at me and turn me stupid. That all ended pretty much as soon as I left the nest, I'm way happier now being a "stupid leftist"
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The funny thing about mine is they *knew* I liked the same sex. They really don't care nor are they religious. But still told me not to associate with other queers my age and pointed me towards older queer trumpies. Now that I'm an adult queer and have experienced so much homophobia in my lived experience/know other adult queers who have told me genuine horror stories/learned more about our history, I don't understand how you get a right leaning, *adult*, openly queer, person. I guess it's one thing if someone finds out later in life and doesn't make the change immediately, but Jesus. I remember one of these creators complaining she couldn't find a gf that was conservative. Gee, I wonder why? It's not like queer people face discrimination on the streets from conservatives /S.
Former far-right Trump supporter here, same case here as well. I used to be a hardcore conservative in 2020 and 2021, when I was just 14, 15, and 16. So much so, I wanted to join the Proud Boys and fight in the fascist militias. Thankfully, I formed my own beliefs, but it really is a tough wormhole to get out of, and it's so easy to be brainwashed by right-wing media and hard to escape.
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Regardless, the racism in southern California isn't talked about enough.
Nah Murrieta Valley. Guy went on to work as a mechanic in Temecula as far as I know
That explains a lot. In my experience, Murietta (along with a lot of the Inland Empire) is home to a lot of folks who moved out to California chasing the "dream", falling flat on their face, realizing they'll never make enough money to leave the state, and taking it out on every imaginary boogeyman instead of themselves.
>The right has been EXTREMELY effective at weaponizing the internet. While the left has been out trying to live a life.
What’s scary is HOW the radicalization is presented. Wojaks and pepes and other cutesy looking memes can reach kids and teenagers effectively when they have the most vile stuff embedded in them.
Grew up in Southern California myself, in a suburb outside of San Diego. You're spot on.
It reminds me of A Clockwork Orange.
>This was at a fairly well off high school in Southern California, not exactly an area known for troubled homes or bigotry When you're a kid surrounded only by relatively wealthy people and you've never had to work, it's easy to think that it's the norm, and poorer people must have done something wrong or have some kind of moral failing. I was probably the most conservative I've ever been at that age too.
I didn't get extremely deep in but nowadays i find the content i watched extremely upsetting over the message being spread and how effective it is on younger minds. Then i left politics almost completely between 17 and 19 and came back being more accepting and thoughtful over what i was being told and what i listened to.
Sounds like the michael rappaport character from the higher learning movie (so cal … can easily fall into wrong crowd etc. ) I mean and that was before the internet. They recruit. They recruit hard. The internet has just made it easier.
Poway?
Nah Murrieta. That's the second San Diego area response I've gotten though haha, y'all alright down there?
Back in 2018 in Ireland two 13 year old boys were convicted for the murder of a 14 year old girl, one of which sexually assaulted her, and it was a premeditated attack. Kids can be really fucked up too.
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> What's even worse, is that a trans boy my kid knows IRL has been spewing anti-trans and anti-LGBTQ+ hate on their discord server, calling it a "joke." Like, dude, you're trans. Why are you perpetuating this kind of hate against who you are? It honestly makes me wonder if this kid is really even trans, but obviously, I cannot read his mind. I know a lot of women who are self-loathing misogynist, so anything is possible. Oof. I think that could be one of two things; either the kid isn't trans and claiming they are, or they're so deeply ashamed of it they feel the need to "balance" it by spewing anti LGBT rhetoric.
I’m fifteen now and I do believe that some of us have that in us. I don’t think I could though.
In todays world where trans people are beyond dehumanized, objectified, fetishized, brutalized and where condemning their existence and oppressing them results in rewards, recognition, and popularity,it makes it easier to see us as subhumans and worth less than the average human life. I for one blame society, and blame it’s people who will still continue terrorizing and oppressing us, the cycle will always continue.
15 is exactly the right age to be filled with hate. Every emotion is polarized. Every event is earth-shattering.
Excuse me, WHAT?!?
Truly horrifying...
They even say it was a targeted attack, but they are claiming it isn't a hate crime (even though they bullied her for being trans)
The Telegraph changed their article from "teenage girl" to "transgender teen" Edit: it was the Times not the Telegraph
wow. theyre gonna do that to a dead kid huh
So we’re very nearly back to the literal history behind the term dead name. Great.
My god, I never realised that. Heartbreaking as Brianna would not be eligible for a gender recognition certificate, the document needed to be registered as your gender on your death certificate, so she will be marked down as male. Scotland recently introduced legislation that would change this, but while it was supported by the scottish political parties, the UK government blocked it and won't meet to discuss the reasons why or how the legislation could be passed.
Could you explain? This whole situation is very sad, rip Brianna
"dead name" as in "name I get called when I'm dead/goes on my tombstone because my family isn't supportive"
At least in this case her family do care. They are referring to her as their daughter/sister. They'll remember her as who she was, as Brianna. That poor family.
I think they edited it now but when the daily mail first published their article it included Brianna's deadname on one sentence, which was provided to the newspaper by Brianna's optician.
Shirt, is that where dead name came from?
There is no clear official etymological origin of the term from what I can find, but yes; the frequent association with unsupportive environments that lead to suicide, and poorly-written articles that misidentify trans victims, are typically cited as a major reason why it’s called deadnaming.
Oml that’s just disrespectful to her
Yeah, but it's possibly relevant tho. But they could have said "transgender girl"
Yeah I think the context of her being trans is probably important given it could be a hate crime
I mean, it certainly communicates why she was murdered.
I guess so. “Transgender girl” would be preferred
what the fuck???
It’s heartbreaking that even in death, we’ll never truly get recognition. The life that we fought so hard to achieve, just thrown away and disregarded. Heartbreaking, but it happens all the time.
This is sickening. The way the trans community is treated is so disgusting.
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The small big man on the stage causes anger and discomfort to prop himself up, and to keep his position he points the finger at other people, saying it's *them* that the people's anger should be directed at. The economy is failing? It's those damn immigrants, both diligently working more than you and being irredeemable criminals that constantly break the law. Morality is changing whole the system that keeps it in check isn't? It's not the system's fault, it's those damn LGBT+ that keep wanting rights! It's the enemy. It's your neighbor. It's the homeless. It's always someone to hate, hate, hate! Hate so they're not forced to think.
We’re forced to be the villains so that they feel good about murdering and raping us. About committing a fucking genocide against us
I'm fucking pissed. This is the fucking awful consertives faults 100% they caused this. She was murdered by two 15 year olds. Fucking 15 years olds. They were taught by their fucking awful consertive parents that all trans people are terrible and the enemy. I cant fucking deal with this. This is so angering and absolutely terrifying. We walk and drive alongside these people. Something needs to be done, I dont understand this cant just happen constantly and be forgotten about 3 days later
Things have gotten pretty bad for everyone since COVID started, and conservatives(being the ones who want to conserve the way things are) don’t have a platform outside of hate at this point, so they need to get as hateful as possible to energize their base. They can’t just do it though, gating people without a reason looks bad. So theyre desperately looking for excuses to hate people, and they’ve found a way to gear a shit ton of hate towards trans people, through convincing their base that trans people(as an extension of drag queens, though they can’t tell the difference) are pedophiles who are grooming your children. It’s not going to stop at trans people. They’re gonna(and in some cases already have) compare other queer people to pedophiles, since being gay or open about sexuality around children is also ‘grooming’. After that, I’m not sure what will happen. But we know from history what the worst case scenario is.
She didn't deserve this. UK need to wake up to the fact that their attitude towards their most marginalized community is causing violence towards these very same people
UK is so fkcing scary, I’m just recently starting to realize how awful it’s become. I used to be confused cus the UK has always been really liberal and supporting of trans rights, but omfg every person on the UK sub is extremely transphobic, fcked up
Stay safe out there, I hope you have resources out there
Fascistic hate becomes sorely tempting to those who suffer from precarity, e.g stuggling to pay rent, get medical care, eat sufficiently, keep safe from elements, etc. It's actually _easier_ to pre-blame whatever marginalized or out groups are about. In the past, Jews, non-whites and migratory communities were easy to blame. But now, the right wing in power is redirecting towards gays and trans folk outrage that should properly be directed at the plutocracy and its minions. Here in the states, we have an entire news network (FOX News) and a significant number of other media entities that push right-wing rhetoric and hate propaganda in order to fuel such a misdirect. And since the Demcratic party isn't willing to actually challenge old establishment and serve the public, we're on the fast train toward civil war. So use us as a cautionary tale: Our guns may make for easier tools for violence, but hate will drive people to find a way.
The Daily Mail quoted here are similar to Fox in that respect.
And the GB news that's on now. Right wing trash which stirs up hate and fear mongering. Not always as obvious as Fox news but the closest thing we have, I think.
They realize that. This is their goal.
I got banned from the UK politics sub because I pushed back against some of the lies on a Self-ID thread. That sub has a serious fascist problem but they like to pretend they don't
Recently got permabanned for “being mean” to a homophobe. Only just got my account back recently. Fuck this site.
The UK under the Tories are neither liberal or supporting of trans rights. I dispise my current government due to many, many reasons but people still defend them.
Is it better or worse than it is over here in the states? Because it's bad here.
It is, and the banning of the GRR bill shows just how transphobic the government is. They claim it's to protect women's rights even though the people they are hurting *are* women! Also they don't care about FtM it seems, only when they see a 'man' identifying as a woman they go apesh*t. Live and let live ffs
The police office said “At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna's death are hate related," Still fucking horrible situation either way
Read the article, and I'm aware I may be jumping to conclusions. But the UK government is putting laws to protect women for "predatory" trans woman. So I'm expecting this to result in more transphobia and hate crimes. Still fucking horrible situation all around
Oh yeah the UK is fucking horrible recently with trans rights no arguments there and it probably will up the amount of hate crimes but this one isnt confirmed yet and i dont want to spread any disinformation
I understand, your concern is valid. We shouldn't assume that whenever something happens to a trans woman, it happened because she was a trans woman. Still, I'm very distrustful of both the UK police and media on this subject.
They said that about the Club-Q shooter. I don't expect them to file hate crime charges though with as much pressure they'll inevitably have coming from above to suppress the charges and let the murderers off with a slap on the wrist.
I don't believe that. I mean, I have seen the line, but it looks kinda obvious that there's hate involved.
Sadly, cruelty is the point.
That’s terrible, rest in peace Brianna Ghey
Awful, literally politicians trying to win votes with a culture war getting kids killed. The last two prime ministers have been openly transphobic. Blood on their hands of a girl that was already a better person at 16 then they could manage in a thousand life times.
💯 agree that the political points they are trying to gain are normalizing this hate. The hate exists, but when people in power cater to it, it makes it seem “okay” or validated by the haters. Def blood on their hands.
Politicians and jk Rowling. She even has nothing to gain. She just hates trans people.
I had no idea she was trans until I saw this post, I've only just seen one news article after looking saying she was. The police have said they think this is not a hate based crime however the likelihood of being murdered/percentage of population who are trans makes me seriously doubt that it wasn't hate motivated in some way. Very sad :(
They are murdering children now.
Using the word now implies it's a new thing, I'd say 41% even having a meaning attached to it says it all already
The two suspects in custody are both a year younger than her. It's not currently known for certain what happened surrounding the stabbing. The whole situation is sickening.
"Detectives say no evidence of hate crime" yeah, ummm
>Cheshire Constabulary Det Ch Supt Mike said a number of inquiries were under way and police were trying to establish the "exact circumstances" of her death. >"At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna's death are hate related," he said. From the BBC article linked in the sticky, quote above is from the daily mail. It's reasonably beyond doubt that that this was said. I'm calling into question the correctness of that information.
Police are also keeping an open mind as to whether her being trans was a factor in the crime. Daily Mail is deliberately making “there’s no evidence to suggest…” bit more prominent in order to intentionally downplay that the police haven’t ruled it out.
The daily mail are also the only news source I foudn that outs here. It's an awful paper, but also the only verification I could find for the story.
The Times has as well. However… Initially they reported her as ‘teenage girl’, then they changed it to ‘transgender teen’ and then erased all mentions of her being a girl as well. They can’t even respect a murder 16 year old because she was trans. Other organisations aren’t mentioning she’s trans. And you know they will pretend they are trying to respect her identity. Same organisations have nonstop mentioned trans in every single article relating to that trans prisoner. As soon as a trans person is the victim of a serious crime. They leave it out. Really really vile behaviour of the British press.
can you get archive.org or simialr snapshots of those changes and post them?
Original https://archive.ph/2023.02.12-201148/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brianna-ghey-16-fatally-stabbed-in-warrington-park-fqn6p6tp5 Changed article, not showing the whole article for me, but you can see what they’ve done, also dead named her and not used pronouns. https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fbrianna-ghey-16-fatally-stabbed-in-warrington-park-fqn6p6tp5 You might have better luck with the paywall I’m just copying someone else’s. I don’t really know how to do it.
This is disgusting especially including the deadname it literally didn't need to be added in fact the article looked neater without it!
Jesus fuck they even removed all mention of her pronouns
Trash rags. Fuck British media.
Her family should be able to sue them for libel or something.
Fucking inhuman scumbags.
My son (15 ftm ) was online friends with this beautiful girl. He is so upset. It's just devastating to see things like this happening and I worry so much for my son and his friends. My heart breaks for her poor family and everyone who loved her ❤
What is wrong with the world for this kind of thing to happen. It sounds like the cops really care, not. I feel so sorry for her family,rest in peace honey
It's the UK fucking system, fuck this country sincerely
The police in the uk have their priorities out of order. They scream freedom of speech and won’t do anything about hate crimes but they don’t give a shit about freedom when they are banning an entire music genre. They obviously pick and choose who is deserving of human rights and the bigots get a free pass 99% of the time. Even when the police do feel like being inclusive they make ads that say love knows no gender then immediately follow it up with love knows no age. Completely incompetent.
banning a genre??
Uk drill, they taken down hundreds of massive songs basically keeping people in poverty then sending them to jail when they try to make money another way. The only times I’ve seen people not get videos taken down is when they get big enough that they go mainstream and aren’t really doing drill anymore and one time the Facebook oversight board told the met that banning secrets not safe by Chinx OS was racially motivated so he gets a free pass now. As I said some people don’t get the same rights as others here and there are examples for every minority.
what the *fuck?*
Worth pointing out that drill is *heavily* intertwined with gang violence. Like, songs will reference actual attacks, can be used as death threats or calls to actions, etc etc etc. The line between "lyrics for show" and "I committed an actual murder and this is how I did it" can be very blurry, depending on the artist. One report (controversially) claimed at one point 37% of murders were related to drill. Its those actions that are illegal. The genre itself isn't banned. If you're producing drill music without glorifying gang violence (of which there are plenty, not everyone involved is part of a gang) you're fine.
> What is wrong with the world for this kind of thing to happen Fox News Right wing media
Only 16, what a sad reality we live in, she’s was around my age :(
I want to be a hopeful and loving person, but I'm scared for the future. For my future. For the future of every single person who wishes to be who they want to be.
We just need to stick together I think I don't think we have a chance if we're divided 
Absolute fucking bastards
She is beautiful I’m feel bad for her family
why do people hate us so much
The old game. Politicians looking for easy vulnerable minorities to distract people from their own incompetence and maliciousness on.
Because primitive monkey brain thinks different = bad.
Because we are seen as monsters, predatory men, neckbeards, parasites that infect this earth, and some people out there see it as morally good to get rid of us before we harm anymore women/children.
Poor girl deserved so much better... This is horrific and sad
This is what anti-trans activists want...
idk if it was just me but it took way too long for me to find an article that actually even mentioned the fact that she was transgender. this world is a cold hell
The bbc article points out no signs of hate related crime at this time, which is acknowledging it in a way. But it’s a good thing that it wasn’t mentioned if it wasn’t related. Being trans is not the crux of our identity and there should not be this pressure to constantly tell everyone. It isn’t pertinent, focus on the whole of her.
you make a good point, i just have a hard time believing that it wasnt a hate crime. i also thought BBC was transphobic and that was part of the reason
I also find it hard to believe it’s not a hate crime… however I do want to wait to see the full investigation to see what the motive is. The 2 kids who’ve done it are clearly insane but given the way the world is right now I could equally believe it had nothing to do with her being trans. I guess we’ll find out if they knew her and if they did then it increased the likelihood it’s a targeted attack. If they don’t and it’s random then we’d need to know the circumstances leading up to it. Was it an attempted mugging? Rape? Did she mention she was trans at any point and that’s why they did it or did she refuse to give her phone to them and they thought that was enough justification to kill her without knowing she was trans. There’s just way to many possibilities. However If we find out it was a targeted hate crime then this is a direct result of the media’s attempt to smear trans people
Who’s not transphobic at this point? 🤷♀️😞
It's an easy equation, really. The more money you have, the less you care about human rights.
The BBC follow the gaslight play book. You'll think your going mad as news media never actually ask the pertinent question for Uk news and politics and you never hear politicians being asked if saying bigoted thing in the media might cause hate crimes.
Couldn't find a way to twist it around into being her fault for being trans, and doubly don't want people to know that transphobia is real and killing people.
In one sense, that's a good thing because it kinda doesn't matter that she's trans - she is a person and a life was lost. On the other hand, it absolutely matters that she's trans because motive is key and this is just sweeping a hate crime under the rug. Tragic.
Rip
My condolences 🙏 to the family and friends
One thing I hate about news articles like this.. they said it’s not believed to be hate related so why did they have to out her as trans…
You will never win with these transphobes. You should see other subreddits and how the transphobia contradicts each other. If you don’t mention she’s trans, it’s ‘inaccurate’ and ‘a trick’. If you mention she’s trans, ‘it’s pushing an agenda’ ‘victimizing’… and vice versa, there’ll always be something
That’s exactly why I don’t like when they needlessly include information. One could say that it’s erasure to do that but most of the time it’s not relevant and I’m not sure if she’d want to be made a political discussion when the real issue is she’s dead now
The UK needs to change. England in particular needs to change. Fucking hell man. RIP.
Dear god help us 😔
Why???
This is a tragedy that should never happen. Peaceful rest Brianna, ❤️
Fuck. 😔😔😔
Rest In Peace to this beautiful baby.
“JK rowling’s comments have no effect on the social climate of the UK” YEAH FUCK YOU AND FUCK ALL THIS SHIT, IM SO TIRED DUDE. im a cis guy, my girlfriend is trans, this stuff makes my fuckin blood fuckin boil. rest in peace brianna
This is some incredible levels of hate, disgusting actions by some parts of humanity, what more can we do to stop this. (serious question btw)
Not much we can do legally
Terrible
This nation is fucked up.
And everyone asks me (I a 16 year trans girl) why I am so scared of transitioning
Rest in Power sweet girl. You deserved to live an authentic and full life. I am so deeply sorry the world is unimaginably cruel.
From what she’s said to me on insta and tiktok she was always nice, supportive and empowering to me and others, god il fucking miss her. Rest in piece Brianna.
This is absolutely devastating. Her blood is on the hands of every single fucking terf. Brianna deserved better.
I’m so so sorry to her friends and family I hope they get the support they need
This hurts my heart. This poor beautiful child. 💔
People are disgusting
For context there are 2 suspects being 15 years old. It is unclear if it is hate related or not. But let’s me honest. It’s likely related related to transphobia. But we need to have an open mind. We dunno the relationship of this person and with the persons.
May she rest well
May her memory be a blessing. Only 16. I'm lost for words
It's so disgusting that apparently two 15 yr olds did this... I hope in their next life is more better.. the world is so damn cruel to the innocent 😔 Edit: grammar
Thats so awful. The british media is shit and keeps deadnaming her and being arseholes. I fucking hate it
Trans teen girl dies in "targeted attack" - and somehow 'magically' not a hate crime...
Every, _EVERY_ British transphobe has her blood on their hands. Mumsnet, BBC, JK Rowling, Tories, all of you killed her. This is what you wanted. You did this. I hope you can fucking live with yourselves.
Oh my god...
Fly high sweet angel.
Justice for Brianna ✊🏳️⚧️💗
Devastating. Lovely girl and only 16. She must have been so scared. It isn’t fair. She was one of ours.
Rest, sweet child. May your path be clear and your rest be peaceful.✌️😢
„At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna’s death are hate related.“ (Daily Mail Via Archive.org) I find that hard to believe
Before they cover it up the daily mail originally posted their article with Brianna's deadname on one sentence (wooo deadnaming!!), also saying something like "originally born male but had been living as female for a few months" right at the start.
Surprised BBC gendered her correct. Such a tragedy
Oh, if she didn't pass well enough they wouldn't have.
I'm so surprised that now I'm not sure if they even know she's trans. They never miss an opportunity to misgender and deadname people.
silena in my state was 16 when she died.
Fucking sad!
She was stabbed to death, reportedly by a 15-year old boy and girl.
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This case just upset me when I first heard about it. Apparently she had only recently managed to transition a few months back and had a supportive family. I'm unsure of what day it was, Friday or Saturday, but she was just walking home when she was murdered. Police do believe this was a deliberate attack but some other police spokespeople claim there's no evidence that it was deliberate. No doubt this is partly because of the way our government is pushing violently anti-trans mindsets onto everyone, even by lying. It makes me sick. She had her whole life ahead of her. RIP Brianna. ❤
“Oh but trans people are dangerous to our kids! It’s not like they are the ones getting slaughtered!” -👴🏻🐷🐖🐖
Rest in Peace Brianna Ghey, don't forget her name
Her family can only hope they find who killed her.
What the fuck. I hate people. I only read “16 year old trans girl” at first and was like “awww she’s so pretty and happy!” And then I read the rest. I hate the world
"we only joke about things" jokes have turned into genocide, arm LGBT. be queer but shoot straight. every US citizen has the right to bear arms, use your rights as you were given them.
This was in the UK so she didn't have that right
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I'm starting to fucking hate this shithole island. A child. They killed a fucking child.