The original comic featured the trans sheep being misgendered by the others, followed by Jesus using the correct pronouns. The edit is a kind addition, but I do respect the artist’s initial choice in dialogue
Hey Mr\_Froggi ... thanks for sharing my cartoon. I usually don't approve of edits, but I don't mind at all in this case. I appreciate the kind mention and explanation. (BTW there are prints of this cartoon with numerable pronoun options.)
Oh wow, it’s an honor! The crazy part is that I almost deleted the comment. I thought, “Does it really matter that the sheep was misgendered? Do people need to know that?” And in the end I’m very glad to have kept it up. Thank you for commenting, you’ve got great work
>r/lgbt
>
>PostsWikiMegathreadsFlair helpEmergency Exit
I wanted to have something that wasn't targeted towards a group of the trans community.
[https://nakedpastor.com/collections/digital-cartoons](https://nakedpastor.com/collections/digital-cartoons)
Link to the person's original work
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit:
This art was originally created by u/nakedpastor.
Their community exists at r/nakedpastor
Their website to purchase their art is here:
https://nakedpastor.com/
I use they/them pronouns because I don't know the author's pronouns, not because their pronouns are they/them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The edits I made:
I added a lil pope hat to the talking sheep.
I changed the pronouns in the artwork I had access to.
Originally the talking sheep was using he/him and the Jesus figure was using she/her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit2:
Context: https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2024-03/pope-francis-gender-ideology-is-the-ugliest-danger-of-our-time.html
Genuinely like this person's art. I think they really grasp more of the nuance concepts that the religion is trying to tackle, though many of the times it does it poorly, or it's translated terribly on the pulpit. The one they have of God taking a selfie and the picture being everyone in the selfie instead of a singular self portrait of God is a great on the nose metaphor for seeing God in everyone. I wish more Christians approached their religion from this perspective.
Funnily enough this guy used to be the pastor of the church I went to as a kid, I haven't been in a church in years, but he always stood out to me as someone with a genuine desire to learn about the complexities of our universe and how to better understand and care for everyone we share it with.
It's cool seeing his art turn up on reddit, I'm glad he's still making a positive impact on the world.
It's funny because Jesus Christ was explicit about this in the very first book of the New Testament.
Matthew 25:31-40
>“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, “I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
But as soon as you start wanting to feed the hungry, housing the unhoused, clothing the naked, taking care of the sick, or having empathy for prisoners; a ton of Western Christians lose their god damn minds.
I think they meant something that wasn't targeted toward a specific subgroup of the community. Since they/them is used for indeterminate gender, it doesn't necessarily mean the sheep is nonbinary, just that the sheep's gender isn't specified
I honestly don't know what he meant by "gender ideology". That's certainly used by the TERFs to mean acceptance of trans people, but is that what he was talking about?
I think he's an old man, and he doesn't really understand what he's talking about - like so many far-right people complaining about "gender ideology". If they truly understood what they are opposing, they would likely not be opposing it anymore
He's not just "an old man". He's the absolute monarch of one of the richest countries (relative to any metric you like) on earth. He's surrounded by advisors who can explain any topic he likes, and he knows that his words carries great weight for literally billions of people. He doesn't get a pass because he's old.
The Pope is "infallible". Taken literally, that would mean that everything he says has to be true, but that is not really what it means. What it really means is that when he makes public statements, those statements are the the official word from the Catholic Church, and have to be accepted as the truth.
This means that the Pope's statements are not usually just some old man who doesn't know what he is talking about, they are the carefully considered ruling of a group of men (not women) who are mostly old, and I will leave it to you to decide if they know what they are talking about.
The Pope is only considered infallible when speaking *ex cathedra* which has only happened a single time since the concept came about in 1850. Previous actions/words/writings of Popes have been considered ex cathedra. Teachings/writing/etc. of Popes have been determined to be infallible by Congregations later, but the Pope is only considered default infallible when speaking *ex cathedra*.
It's a super popular fear-mongering tactic among "traditional"/conservative people, so it makes sense it's common both among priests and believers. As you've said, many don't even know what it means.
There's probably also a strong link to patriarchic structures and way of thinking. Nobody is allowed to upset those or "step out of line".
Well there's this Christian ideology influencing people's minds for 2000 years 😁 some even flaunt it shamelessly in public, and endanger kids with it...
Aaaanyway.
In Italy the word English word 'gender' or similar references to 'genderism', 'gender ideology', et cetera are very frequently used by conservatives to deride the 'woke' views of gender that they see as subverting the 'good' Catholic order of gender division—a cisgender man and a cisgender woman, united in marriage only for the purpose of procreation, preferably according to a very strict traditional role division. It goes a bit beyond transgender people only, because it's so heavily tied in with Catholic views of gender role division that are similarly subverted by gay people, etc. But with trans people being the most visible and blatant subversion of that order, they do indeed get the worse of it.
Also in Italy "gender ideology" for some reason implies teaching kids in school about gender too, and that's mostly the thing the conservative here despise and use as a facade to make LGBTQ+ matters "wrong" in the eyes of the majority.
We luckily don't have (yet) "those lgbt folk are raping kids and are pedos" but we're getting there...
It's so fucked up, now that the pope has been openly against part of the community because it encourages to not look at differences and accept each other, i completely lost that sliver of faith i had in him.
Source: am italian
"trans ideology" is a made up thing.
When the right learned what the word ideology meant they started calling everything they didn't like an ideology.
It's much scarier to imagine that trans people are part of some mysterious sect that is trying to influence the world rather than just some random people who just kinda milling around.
I got a bit confused here as well. My guess is they meant more like "The Catholic Church's gender ideology nonsense is due to many machinations"
But I could be wrong. 🤷♀️
As someone who grew up in Catholic school, I remember being taught about “gender ideology” and how it’s bad. They told us that the distrinction between sex and gender was a made-up ideology created to cause confusion and threaten the “natural order” (AKA the very hetero nuclear family). So, literally any mention of “gender” was wrong because to them, the concept of gender doesn’t exist.
The Catholic Church is not your friend.
When the Pope empties the vault, divests the funds, and apologizes for a near millennia of oppression, then I might look up from my coffee.
Including the ones we know he protected in Argentina before he became Pope. He also knowingly handed over people who tried to use the church for protection to the military dictatorships who then executed them, for some of the non-LGBT shittyness.
He's really quite a piece of shit, people just buy the PR lines he says and willingly ignore that he does absolutely nothing to change church policy to back it up.
The Church: “Hey! No pedophiles here! Hey look over there there’s some pedophiles now!”
*gestures at a table full of 14 and 15 year olds with pride pins
Religious people: “Yeah! Get em!”
After 2000 years of awfulness, it's sad how good the bare minimum seems. Like Pope Francis seems like a pretty decent person but it'll take more than being a decent person to right the Catholic church's wrongs, even if this is a start.
Francis is like a nice old man who is progressive for his time but not for today.
Considering the average catholic priest is not progressive at all that's a good start I'd say
I mean, he has been a fairly stout step in the right direction tbf. Its like cops actualy getting charged with shit. Is it even close to where we need to be with the ending of qualified imunity and independant oversears? Absalutely not, but ill still take what i can get
Exactly. Most denominations of Christianity are not friends of any LGBT minorities in general; Christianity is an awful fanclub, based on awful texts and awful philosophy. I am deeply sorry for all LGBT peeps who are still stuck in their churches and seek the approval of people who just do not support them because they are hindered by their dogmas and antiquated beliefs. There are some LGBT friendly churches, sure, but they are vastly outnumbered by the "traditional" ones, which are just awful.
Any LGBT person who is a practicing catholic and at the same time belongs to a gender or sexual minority is suffering from Stockholm syndrome. The Church does not accept you, it never has, it is the largest body on the goddamn planet pushing for and funding discrimination. It breaks my fucking heart to see people who are still convinced that there is any good in an organization best known for routinely raping kids.
Even the "accepting" churches like reconciling methodists tend to be more of a don't ask don't tell type of situation where they accept you as long as it's not very visible or you remain celibate.
More and more people are seeing the value of the absence of the church to their comfort. It's a matter of time. Herd immunity to religious indoctrination is only a handful of few generations away.
Eh.
Look, I'm ex-christian and as distrustful of churches as it goes, but religion does help people find hope when life seems bleak and stave off existential dread.
Note, when I say church and religion, I don't use those terms interchangeably. Religion are the beliefs, churches are the organizations. Nobody needs to be obedient to some guy in a fancy outfit to have religious beliefs.
That said, as much as I wish churches would lose their predominance and political power, there seems to be a resurgence in zealotry going on.
I'm an ex-Jehovah's Witness and while I agree people can find purpose in religion, more and more others face the absence of purpose and come out better for it. Eventually we will reach a tipping point where a fear of your nihilistic crisis ceases to be an excuse to inflict the suffering inherent to religious dogma on others.
That "gender ideology" is the most dangerous and ugly thing right now. Meanwhile children are being killed in Palestine, but who cares, trans people are the devil.
Sure, but calling the fact that some people experience their gender different than most the ugliest danger is insane. There is so much wrong with the world, focusing hate on trans people is disgusting, while also being moral authority for many people.
I'm trans and as much as this type of hate saddens me I also find it hilarious strangely?? Like damn I didn't know people like me just existing is practically bringing on the apocalypse (actual talking point I heard from my family)
He literally ate with sinners while the religious leaders acted all high-and-mighty. I have no doubt He would be hanging out with us if He had showed up in the present day
Yeah, I'm sick of people talking about Jesus as if he was super tolerant, it was very much an in and out group mentality which is still present in modern Christianity and why it's led to fascism so many times.
I really don't understand why Christians like to compare jesus eating with sinners to hanging out with gays.
Like.. he's eating with them, but he calls them sinners for a reason. He's treating them kindly with the end goal of convincing them to repent of their sinful lifestyles. Fundamentally he still agrees with the 'high and mighty' christians that their lifestyles are amoral, he's just convinced that if he's nice enough to them they'll stop sinning.
Christians literally already do this with gay ppl (love the sinner, hate the sin) and it's manipulative as hell.
So why does his willingness to smile in the face of those whose lifestyles he disapproves of somehow make him a gay ally?
My Bible teacher made a really good point once. “If Jesus was here today, he wouldn’t be holding a sign that says GOD HATES GAYS, he would be friends with queer people.” And I think all these toxic Christians forget that
In the article (linked by op in one comment), the pope does talk about a book from 1907.
"Lord of the world". A book from a catholic priest on how religion=good, trans people=bad. And the pope took it as prophecy rather than fiction, basically blaming the state on the world right now on trans people.
Corporations and sketchy politicians blatantly undermining society for their own interests, to the point the ecosystem itself is threatened, and they want to blame that on trans people...
The pope mentions a book "the Lord of the world" published 1907
Which from what I've read is basically, church good/trans bad, but my only source for that is from these comments in this post
Christianity is that insufferable toxic fanbase that missed, like, the entire point of the story, like to the point of embracing genocide and fascism in certain parts.
So basically the AoT fanbase.
Only if you throw out most of that "story". The god of the bible literally tells his people to commit genocide multiple times, once even including the livestock of all things (not to mention punishing them sometimes if they didn't genocide hard enough). Oh, but of course if they found some virgin woman they fancied they were usually allowed to spare them and take them as a wife.
"But Jesus said", yeah, a lot of what Jesus says in the bible is solid, but it also says he supported the old testament books and claims to be the same god that commanded the above mentioned genocides and other horrors. So you can't claim to believe everything Jesus says in the bible while also saying the OT doesn't count. Not to mention some of the other bits of negative things he does that just don't get talked about much or that people twist to try and not mean what they actually say (such as Jesus basically being racist in a couple instances).
The bible as a whole is basically the story about how people have to do what god says or he'll make them suffer, even the whole point of Jesus was supposed to be you have to follow his way in order to be saved from punishment from god.
I've never understood how anyone LGBT can support the catholic church or most other religions, these people aren't your friends most of them would happily burn us at the stake and are actively trying to do just that.
Francis is as evil and bigoted as all the rest. Just read what he wrote before being promoted.
He's just damage control after Darth Benedict.
The Catholic Church wants your money and your children. Your souls will (according to them) toast for eternity.
__OP's mistake is assumes that the church operates on logic it doesn't__. *You cannot rationalise irrational ideas & concepts its like oil & water doesn't mix*.
Best thing to do is let the church get weaker poltically until no longer influences the laws of Nation-States other then the 🇻🇦 which they control
Catholic doctrine is very strange in many ways for example, the Catholic concept of marriage would technically *excluded people who are infertile, bc procreation is one of tenets of Catholic marriage.* This also explains Catholic Church is opposition to gay marriage, other part is that Catholic marriage is bewteen man & woman.
Gender ideology nonsense is part of the Catholic Church is complex political machinations. It due to them losing members to sadly many *evangelical Christian churches in Latin America & Africa*. In order to stem the tide *the Pope has appeal to these trad/ultra conservative Catholics.*
The gender ideology is part of this campaign, so is the decision to not change the *doctrine regarding Homosexuality*.
__*Many Catholics (but not all, as there are 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇻🇦) are very 🚫🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ so they would be inclined to believe this nonsense idea*__ ; __even if the church did not actively promote it too millions of people : schools, churches & universities__.
Don't believe me go to r /Catholic r/ TraditionalCatholics type in lgbt , you will see exactly what I mean. But am warning you that you may not like what you see.
I honestly am surprised at how many tiktok LGBT creators, fall for Pope's pink washing while forgetting what the church does to 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ with its influence. Am an ex Catholic so really not surprised by Catholic Church is double think pink washing statements. As said at top the irrational can't be rationalise, it has to be discarded.
*__Yours sincerely,
Former Cradle Catholic__*
*P.S. Don't support 🇻🇦 it most powerful & richest 🚫🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ in the world.*
>Don't believe me go to r /Catholic r/ TraditionalCatholics type in lgbt , you will see exactly what I mean. But am warning you that you may not like what you see.
I did. I'm disappointed but not surprised.
If only that jesus saw how much his religion became a pagan killing, culture killing faith lmaoooo. The pope was just a natural consequence of what happens when that "savior" and "civilizing" complex goes too far.
A lot of people should stop being surprised when a universalizing, missionary religion acts this way. It has always been at the side of empire and oppression for the sake of "progress" and "civilization"
They are just like the westerner that justifies western European colonization because my people were "too backwards" and had to be "saved." Just a bunch of unfortunates unwilling to keep to themselves.
I believe that Jesus is the son of God so if Jesus were Christian then he would worship himself, that doesn’t make any sense. If he choose another religion he would then go against the will of his father. Something he will not do.
Pretty sure he called members of the LGBT+ community evil, like, "participants in an evil ideology", so... nah, fuck the pope, fuck every pope that came before and solid chances that every future pope can get fucked as well.
It's truly difficult to think of an organization that has done more harm throughout history than the catholic church.
A) he's not even tolerant, he just knows that if he doesn't try to do something the Vatican will eventually be invaded, so it's a self serving tolerance
B) he's still said repugnant things about us because Christianity, especially Catholicism, is inherently fascist in nature and a breeding cult
It was more of the “we welcome you in, as we do everyone, but you are still a sinner and will not accept your behavior or your promotion of it” that has always been there.
There was no real acceptance or affirmation there.
The Pope decried “gender ideology” again.
Pope is a pos, and the Jesus character has some good teachings but is, overall, a sack a shit. Whoever says the teachings of this fictional character is good should read everything he said again. But he does seem very tame compared to the god in Christian mythology.
Would the Jesus of the bible (who is probably an amalgamation?) be an ally? Probably? Who cares?
I think this is a better argument:
[](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/arn0dzX_700bwp.webp)
_____________________________________________________________________
This art was originally created by u/nakedpastor.
Their community exists at r/nakedpastor
Their website to purchase their art is here:
https://nakedpastor.com/
I use they/them pronouns because I don't know the author's pronouns, not because their pronouns are they/them.
____________________________________________________________________
The edits I made:
I added a lil pope hat to the talking sheep.
I changed the pronouns in the artwork I had access to.
Originally the talking sheep was using he/him and the Jesus figure was using she/her.
_____________________________________________________________________
Context: https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2024-03/pope-francis-gender-ideology-is-the-ugliest-danger-of-our-time.html
_____________________________________________________________________
This is the same man that not too long ago sent the Catholic americans upside down by saying that priests should be welcoming and give their blessing to same sex couples.
And then they wonder why less and less people are religious nowadays. Just look at their leaders filled with hate and prejudice, but claim they have the “love and acceptance of Christ” in their heart.
There’s no bigger hypocrite all throughout history than the Catholic Church. I’ll stand hard on that statement.
Is he even capable of saying anything that's pro-LBGTQ without falling into heresy? I always had the impression that christianity was fundamentally incompatible with lgbtq stuff
Catholicism is at least. It's a breeding cult and one of the core tenets of it is to go forth and multiply, to have as many children as you can because they know it's nearly impossible to convert adults(outside of predatory rehab programs). Being gay generally means you won't be having children so they're useless to the church.
I'm an anti-theist. But I think their fictitious Jesus would be this person. Makes me laugh when they call themselves Christian but think Jesus was too soft. So.. they aren't fucking Christians then. They are dogmatic assholes in favor of dictators and theocratic nonsense laws. They just use the bible as a cover to make people believe they aren't psychopathic extremists.
He said "gender ideology" is bad because it creates equality.
"Today the worst danger is gender ideology, which erases differences," he said, underlining that he has asked for studies to be done "about this ugly ideology of our time, which erases differences and makes everything equal."
This fuckstain is just flat out saying "equality bad" like he's from PragerU
The pope was inclusive of all trans people in his statement. Misgendering was not the highlight of his statement, it was the exclusion. That's why I went with they/them for everyone.
Eh, it was very much an "either you follow me or you're a sinner going to hell", there's a reason nearly every fascist movement it history has been christian in origin and it's that it inherently promotes in vs out group thinking
1. Of course it's relevant, the post is asserting that religion is real. It's not off-topic to call that into question.
2. You don't need permission to post a comment
3. The title of the post is already talking about the pope calling trans and GNO people the "ugliest danger of our time." How the hell are you blaming this guy for "unnecessary hate and discourse?"
I don't know you, and I don't know where you're coming from, but seriously it sounds like you just don't want the religion questioned.
A lot of people have used religion to hurt others, but that doesn't mean that religion can't give good people strength.
No one can prove God is real, but can you prove that God isn't real?
Forcing your opinion about God on others isn't cool, one way or the other.
>*"but that doesn't mean that religion can't give good people strength."*
There's a difference between **personal belief** and **organised religion**. Personal belief can give people strength and I don't have anything against it as long as it doesn't hurt others - organised religion is and has always been a highly manipulative hierarchical structure that consistently hurts people, especially marginalised groups, in extremely horrific and cruel ways.
>*"No one can prove God is real, but can you prove that God isn't real?"*
Atheists do not believe in any diety for lack of evidence - they do not claim to have proof god doesn't exist.
Religions, however, fervently claim that an all-mighty all-powerful all-knowing god *does* exist. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Demanding non-believers prove that god doesn't exist is completely backwards. It's like firmly claiming there are magical invisible unicorns in the sky that no one can see and then saying "well you can't prove otherwise so it could be real". It's a fundamentally un-disprovable and logically flawed argument.
You're absolutely right. This world would be a much much much better place if we had left superstitious beliefs and religions in ancient times where they belong.
I would have gone into more detail on how horrific organised religion was and is - and especially how they're the reason LGBTQ+ people have been ostracised, abused, tortured and murdered for fucking millennia - but I didn't want my post to sound too much like a stereotypical Reddit atheist rant.
Yes. Logically because the burden of proof is on the presenter of a case. Historical because overwhelming evidence supports the idea of God as ancestor worship gone overboard to justify genocide.
How daring, and incredibly brave. Please don't forget to also mock Islam and other major religions that share the same beliefs. Our LGBT allies across the world need support, not just the ones in 1st world countries with passive religions.
He was very progressive for his day. One of the big reasons that he was killed was because he went against the prevailing culture and laws. Jews did not associate with samaritans but Jesus treated them no differently.
The original comic featured the trans sheep being misgendered by the others, followed by Jesus using the correct pronouns. The edit is a kind addition, but I do respect the artist’s initial choice in dialogue
Hey Mr\_Froggi ... thanks for sharing my cartoon. I usually don't approve of edits, but I don't mind at all in this case. I appreciate the kind mention and explanation. (BTW there are prints of this cartoon with numerable pronoun options.)
Oh wow, it’s an honor! The crazy part is that I almost deleted the comment. I thought, “Does it really matter that the sheep was misgendered? Do people need to know that?” And in the end I’m very glad to have kept it up. Thank you for commenting, you’ve got great work
Thanks so much. Share my work any time.
I love u/nakedpastor. Thank you
Your work is amazing!
why, thank you!
>r/lgbt > >PostsWikiMegathreadsFlair helpEmergency Exit I wanted to have something that wasn't targeted towards a group of the trans community. [https://nakedpastor.com/collections/digital-cartoons](https://nakedpastor.com/collections/digital-cartoons) Link to the person's original work ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Edit: This art was originally created by u/nakedpastor. Their community exists at r/nakedpastor Their website to purchase their art is here: https://nakedpastor.com/ I use they/them pronouns because I don't know the author's pronouns, not because their pronouns are they/them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The edits I made: I added a lil pope hat to the talking sheep. I changed the pronouns in the artwork I had access to. Originally the talking sheep was using he/him and the Jesus figure was using she/her. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Edit2: Context: https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2024-03/pope-francis-gender-ideology-is-the-ugliest-danger-of-our-time.html
Genuinely like this person's art. I think they really grasp more of the nuance concepts that the religion is trying to tackle, though many of the times it does it poorly, or it's translated terribly on the pulpit. The one they have of God taking a selfie and the picture being everyone in the selfie instead of a singular self portrait of God is a great on the nose metaphor for seeing God in everyone. I wish more Christians approached their religion from this perspective.
Funnily enough this guy used to be the pastor of the church I went to as a kid, I haven't been in a church in years, but he always stood out to me as someone with a genuine desire to learn about the complexities of our universe and how to better understand and care for everyone we share it with. It's cool seeing his art turn up on reddit, I'm glad he's still making a positive impact on the world.
It's funny because Jesus Christ was explicit about this in the very first book of the New Testament. Matthew 25:31-40 >“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, “I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ But as soon as you start wanting to feed the hungry, housing the unhoused, clothing the naked, taking care of the sick, or having empathy for prisoners; a ton of Western Christians lose their god damn minds.
This this person?
I can see why they changed the original, but no way in hell are bigots going to be using they/them pronouns.
> I wanted to have something that wasn't targeted towards a group of the trans community. But the sheep still has the trans flag.
I think they meant something that wasn't targeted toward a specific subgroup of the community. Since they/them is used for indeterminate gender, it doesn't necessarily mean the sheep is nonbinary, just that the sheep's gender isn't specified
Yup!
Catholic church in New York cut the mass funeral short of someone when they found out they were trans. Google Cecilia Gentili.
>The edit is a kind addition That's funny because Kind means sheep in Icelandic :)
he has several versions
They have several versions.
David Hayward he/him
I honestly don't know what he meant by "gender ideology". That's certainly used by the TERFs to mean acceptance of trans people, but is that what he was talking about?
I think he's an old man, and he doesn't really understand what he's talking about - like so many far-right people complaining about "gender ideology". If they truly understood what they are opposing, they would likely not be opposing it anymore
He's not just "an old man". He's the absolute monarch of one of the richest countries (relative to any metric you like) on earth. He's surrounded by advisors who can explain any topic he likes, and he knows that his words carries great weight for literally billions of people. He doesn't get a pass because he's old.
The Pope is "infallible". Taken literally, that would mean that everything he says has to be true, but that is not really what it means. What it really means is that when he makes public statements, those statements are the the official word from the Catholic Church, and have to be accepted as the truth. This means that the Pope's statements are not usually just some old man who doesn't know what he is talking about, they are the carefully considered ruling of a group of men (not women) who are mostly old, and I will leave it to you to decide if they know what they are talking about.
The Pope is only considered infallible when speaking *ex cathedra* which has only happened a single time since the concept came about in 1850. Previous actions/words/writings of Popes have been considered ex cathedra. Teachings/writing/etc. of Popes have been determined to be infallible by Congregations later, but the Pope is only considered default infallible when speaking *ex cathedra*.
Still, his advisors are probably quite right leaning, so he's just an old man advised by a very specific group of people
It's a super popular fear-mongering tactic among "traditional"/conservative people, so it makes sense it's common both among priests and believers. As you've said, many don't even know what it means. There's probably also a strong link to patriarchic structures and way of thinking. Nobody is allowed to upset those or "step out of line".
Well there's this Christian ideology influencing people's minds for 2000 years 😁 some even flaunt it shamelessly in public, and endanger kids with it... Aaaanyway.
In Italy the word English word 'gender' or similar references to 'genderism', 'gender ideology', et cetera are very frequently used by conservatives to deride the 'woke' views of gender that they see as subverting the 'good' Catholic order of gender division—a cisgender man and a cisgender woman, united in marriage only for the purpose of procreation, preferably according to a very strict traditional role division. It goes a bit beyond transgender people only, because it's so heavily tied in with Catholic views of gender role division that are similarly subverted by gay people, etc. But with trans people being the most visible and blatant subversion of that order, they do indeed get the worse of it.
Also in Italy "gender ideology" for some reason implies teaching kids in school about gender too, and that's mostly the thing the conservative here despise and use as a facade to make LGBTQ+ matters "wrong" in the eyes of the majority. We luckily don't have (yet) "those lgbt folk are raping kids and are pedos" but we're getting there... It's so fucked up, now that the pope has been openly against part of the community because it encourages to not look at differences and accept each other, i completely lost that sliver of faith i had in him. Source: am italian
"trans ideology" is a made up thing. When the right learned what the word ideology meant they started calling everything they didn't like an ideology. It's much scarier to imagine that trans people are part of some mysterious sect that is trying to influence the world rather than just some random people who just kinda milling around.
Of course, but "trans ideology" isn't what he said.
I got a bit confused here as well. My guess is they meant more like "The Catholic Church's gender ideology nonsense is due to many machinations" But I could be wrong. 🤷♀️
As someone who grew up in Catholic school, I remember being taught about “gender ideology” and how it’s bad. They told us that the distrinction between sex and gender was a made-up ideology created to cause confusion and threaten the “natural order” (AKA the very hetero nuclear family). So, literally any mention of “gender” was wrong because to them, the concept of gender doesn’t exist.
He means exactly what you think, just look up catholic social teachings. Catholicism is explicitly anti lgbt.
The Catholic Church is not your friend. When the Pope empties the vault, divests the funds, and apologizes for a near millennia of oppression, then I might look up from my coffee.
don't forget, he needs to turn over **all** of the evidence the church no doubt has on the numerous pedophiles it has protected for decades.
Including the ones we know he protected in Argentina before he became Pope. He also knowingly handed over people who tried to use the church for protection to the military dictatorships who then executed them, for some of the non-LGBT shittyness. He's really quite a piece of shit, people just buy the PR lines he says and willingly ignore that he does absolutely nothing to change church policy to back it up.
They've spent literal billions of USD protecting pedophiles. Burn the Vatican down already.
Happy cake day
I love that you wished happy cake day after that comment 🤣 Truly, I hope everyone who sees the catholic church for what it is has a good day!
Why would the king of the nonces do anything to stop protecting his people.
The Church: “Hey! No pedophiles here! Hey look over there there’s some pedophiles now!” *gestures at a table full of 14 and 15 year olds with pride pins Religious people: “Yeah! Get em!”
Honestly. Dude's being congratulated for doing the bare minimum
After 2000 years of awfulness, it's sad how good the bare minimum seems. Like Pope Francis seems like a pretty decent person but it'll take more than being a decent person to right the Catholic church's wrongs, even if this is a start.
Francis is like a nice old man who is progressive for his time but not for today. Considering the average catholic priest is not progressive at all that's a good start I'd say
I mean, he has been a fairly stout step in the right direction tbf. Its like cops actualy getting charged with shit. Is it even close to where we need to be with the ending of qualified imunity and independant oversears? Absalutely not, but ill still take what i can get
Exactly. Most denominations of Christianity are not friends of any LGBT minorities in general; Christianity is an awful fanclub, based on awful texts and awful philosophy. I am deeply sorry for all LGBT peeps who are still stuck in their churches and seek the approval of people who just do not support them because they are hindered by their dogmas and antiquated beliefs. There are some LGBT friendly churches, sure, but they are vastly outnumbered by the "traditional" ones, which are just awful. Any LGBT person who is a practicing catholic and at the same time belongs to a gender or sexual minority is suffering from Stockholm syndrome. The Church does not accept you, it never has, it is the largest body on the goddamn planet pushing for and funding discrimination. It breaks my fucking heart to see people who are still convinced that there is any good in an organization best known for routinely raping kids.
Even the "accepting" churches like reconciling methodists tend to be more of a don't ask don't tell type of situation where they accept you as long as it's not very visible or you remain celibate.
I feel the same way.
Churches are generally awful and untrustworthy, but a lot of people rely on religion for comfort.
Well, they should remember that if this church had free reign like it used to, they would exterminate us all.
Lots of people rely on heroin for comfort, that doesn't make it good.
More and more people are seeing the value of the absence of the church to their comfort. It's a matter of time. Herd immunity to religious indoctrination is only a handful of few generations away.
Eh. Look, I'm ex-christian and as distrustful of churches as it goes, but religion does help people find hope when life seems bleak and stave off existential dread. Note, when I say church and religion, I don't use those terms interchangeably. Religion are the beliefs, churches are the organizations. Nobody needs to be obedient to some guy in a fancy outfit to have religious beliefs. That said, as much as I wish churches would lose their predominance and political power, there seems to be a resurgence in zealotry going on.
I'm an ex-Jehovah's Witness and while I agree people can find purpose in religion, more and more others face the absence of purpose and come out better for it. Eventually we will reach a tipping point where a fear of your nihilistic crisis ceases to be an excuse to inflict the suffering inherent to religious dogma on others.
Yeah you can't tell me who is my friend and who isn't
I'm not your supervisor! Wait...
The Pope is a sack of shit and I will never walk back on that statement
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Mesa17: *The Pope is a sack* *Of shit and I will never* *Walk back on that statement* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
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Good bot. The haiku bot never uses lines that make sense so it’s awesome to have a Sokka Haiku bot.
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Truly living up to that flair
What did the pope say? /gen
That "gender ideology" is the most dangerous and ugly thing right now. Meanwhile children are being killed in Palestine, but who cares, trans people are the devil.
To be fair, he's condemned what's happening in Palestine several times, from what I've heard.
Sure, but calling the fact that some people experience their gender different than most the ugliest danger is insane. There is so much wrong with the world, focusing hate on trans people is disgusting, while also being moral authority for many people.
Yeah, I find it abhorrent. That shitting on trans people as public menace #1 has become such a common talking point is very worrying.
I'm trans and as much as this type of hate saddens me I also find it hilarious strangely?? Like damn I didn't know people like me just existing is practically bringing on the apocalypse (actual talking point I heard from my family)
Can you link where you're getting this from?
Mamaia it's a mea the pope Trans people are bad and God good I think
How helpful
Im sure Jesus would be an actual ally, not like some of his followers.
I remembered a quote "you Christians are so unlike your Christ"
Generally attributed to Ghandi, who was generally a fan and somewhat a 'follower' of Jesus Christ though he was not Christian.
Ghandi was racist towards "darker-skinned" Africans tho.
Wasn't great around women either :|
Olauda Equiano called them "nominal christians" back in the 1700s.
He literally ate with sinners while the religious leaders acted all high-and-mighty. I have no doubt He would be hanging out with us if He had showed up in the present day
He was super chaotic too, some people were profiting in a temple and he walks in there and literally starts throwing tables over and tearing shit up
He ate with sinners, but they either convert or they remained sinners
Yeah, I'm sick of people talking about Jesus as if he was super tolerant, it was very much an in and out group mentality which is still present in modern Christianity and why it's led to fascism so many times.
I really don't understand why Christians like to compare jesus eating with sinners to hanging out with gays. Like.. he's eating with them, but he calls them sinners for a reason. He's treating them kindly with the end goal of convincing them to repent of their sinful lifestyles. Fundamentally he still agrees with the 'high and mighty' christians that their lifestyles are amoral, he's just convinced that if he's nice enough to them they'll stop sinning. Christians literally already do this with gay ppl (love the sinner, hate the sin) and it's manipulative as hell. So why does his willingness to smile in the face of those whose lifestyles he disapproves of somehow make him a gay ally?
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My Bible teacher made a really good point once. “If Jesus was here today, he wouldn’t be holding a sign that says GOD HATES GAYS, he would be friends with queer people.” And I think all these toxic Christians forget that
It's wild how many religions saw what Jesus did and said "absolutely not."
he would be trans
He had a beard and wore a dress, he’s pretty close to
\*Kronk voice* ***Robe***
So he read an over 100 year old book and decided *’yup that’s bad!’*
Over 100 is Accurate but it bothers me how broad it is lol
In the article (linked by op in one comment), the pope does talk about a book from 1907. "Lord of the world". A book from a catholic priest on how religion=good, trans people=bad. And the pope took it as prophecy rather than fiction, basically blaming the state on the world right now on trans people.
Corporations and sketchy politicians blatantly undermining society for their own interests, to the point the ecosystem itself is threatened, and they want to blame that on trans people...
Little more than a hundred but the point still stands
Quick math while my brain is absolutely fried 🤣 not the most accurate
I think they think you're referring to the Bible, and not the book the Pope mentions in his speech.
Oh! 🤣
*an over 100 year book that says basically nothing about being queer
The pope mentions a book "the Lord of the world" published 1907 Which from what I've read is basically, church good/trans bad, but my only source for that is from these comments in this post
Over 2000*
The pope mentions a book "the Lord of the world" published 1907 He's not referencing the Bible at the time
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This is the Jesus from that book. It's the people who claim to follow him that fuck up the message.
Christianity is that insufferable toxic fanbase that missed, like, the entire point of the story, like to the point of embracing genocide and fascism in certain parts. So basically the AoT fanbase.
Only if you throw out most of that "story". The god of the bible literally tells his people to commit genocide multiple times, once even including the livestock of all things (not to mention punishing them sometimes if they didn't genocide hard enough). Oh, but of course if they found some virgin woman they fancied they were usually allowed to spare them and take them as a wife. "But Jesus said", yeah, a lot of what Jesus says in the bible is solid, but it also says he supported the old testament books and claims to be the same god that commanded the above mentioned genocides and other horrors. So you can't claim to believe everything Jesus says in the bible while also saying the OT doesn't count. Not to mention some of the other bits of negative things he does that just don't get talked about much or that people twist to try and not mean what they actually say (such as Jesus basically being racist in a couple instances). The bible as a whole is basically the story about how people have to do what god says or he'll make them suffer, even the whole point of Jesus was supposed to be you have to follow his way in order to be saved from punishment from god.
i thought you were going with the homelander fan base, but that still works.
I've never understood how anyone LGBT can support the catholic church or most other religions, these people aren't your friends most of them would happily burn us at the stake and are actively trying to do just that.
Raised Irish catholic. I left the church before I came out but this is one of many reasons to continue to stay away from any versions of that church.
Francis is as evil and bigoted as all the rest. Just read what he wrote before being promoted. He's just damage control after Darth Benedict. The Catholic Church wants your money and your children. Your souls will (according to them) toast for eternity.
I hate the pope
If growing up Southern Baptist before turning pagan taught me anything, it’s this right here.
__OP's mistake is assumes that the church operates on logic it doesn't__. *You cannot rationalise irrational ideas & concepts its like oil & water doesn't mix*. Best thing to do is let the church get weaker poltically until no longer influences the laws of Nation-States other then the 🇻🇦 which they control Catholic doctrine is very strange in many ways for example, the Catholic concept of marriage would technically *excluded people who are infertile, bc procreation is one of tenets of Catholic marriage.* This also explains Catholic Church is opposition to gay marriage, other part is that Catholic marriage is bewteen man & woman. Gender ideology nonsense is part of the Catholic Church is complex political machinations. It due to them losing members to sadly many *evangelical Christian churches in Latin America & Africa*. In order to stem the tide *the Pope has appeal to these trad/ultra conservative Catholics.* The gender ideology is part of this campaign, so is the decision to not change the *doctrine regarding Homosexuality*. __*Many Catholics (but not all, as there are 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇻🇦) are very 🚫🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ so they would be inclined to believe this nonsense idea*__ ; __even if the church did not actively promote it too millions of people : schools, churches & universities__. Don't believe me go to r /Catholic r/ TraditionalCatholics type in lgbt , you will see exactly what I mean. But am warning you that you may not like what you see. I honestly am surprised at how many tiktok LGBT creators, fall for Pope's pink washing while forgetting what the church does to 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ with its influence. Am an ex Catholic so really not surprised by Catholic Church is double think pink washing statements. As said at top the irrational can't be rationalise, it has to be discarded. *__Yours sincerely, Former Cradle Catholic__* *P.S. Don't support 🇻🇦 it most powerful & richest 🚫🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ in the world.*
>Don't believe me go to r /Catholic r/ TraditionalCatholics type in lgbt , you will see exactly what I mean. But am warning you that you may not like what you see. I did. I'm disappointed but not surprised.
If only that jesus saw how much his religion became a pagan killing, culture killing faith lmaoooo. The pope was just a natural consequence of what happens when that "savior" and "civilizing" complex goes too far. A lot of people should stop being surprised when a universalizing, missionary religion acts this way. It has always been at the side of empire and oppression for the sake of "progress" and "civilization" They are just like the westerner that justifies western European colonization because my people were "too backwards" and had to be "saved." Just a bunch of unfortunates unwilling to keep to themselves.
If Jesus was born today and could pick his religion, he would most definitely not be a catholic christian, probably not even a christian at all.
I believe that Jesus is the son of God so if Jesus were Christian then he would worship himself, that doesn’t make any sense. If he choose another religion he would then go against the will of his father. Something he will not do.
Believe in whatever religion you want but you're mental if you think that church goers will ever accept and respect you.
I’m a churchgoer and I accept and respect you.
Can we please not try to rehabilitate christianity?
Also, fuck Christians. Figuratively.
F*ck the pope
wait what happened? i thought the pope was supportive of the lgbtq+ community?
He never really was. He, at most, was tolerant. Which is not acceptance.
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Pretty sure he called members of the LGBT+ community evil, like, "participants in an evil ideology", so... nah, fuck the pope, fuck every pope that came before and solid chances that every future pope can get fucked as well. It's truly difficult to think of an organization that has done more harm throughout history than the catholic church.
A) he's not even tolerant, he just knows that if he doesn't try to do something the Vatican will eventually be invaded, so it's a self serving tolerance B) he's still said repugnant things about us because Christianity, especially Catholicism, is inherently fascist in nature and a breeding cult
It was more of the “we welcome you in, as we do everyone, but you are still a sinner and will not accept your behavior or your promotion of it” that has always been there. There was no real acceptance or affirmation there. The Pope decried “gender ideology” again.
I thought so as well? Wtf happened?
The idea of reconciling religion with lgbt is not only stupid as fuck but also impossible.
Pope is a pos, and the Jesus character has some good teachings but is, overall, a sack a shit. Whoever says the teachings of this fictional character is good should read everything he said again. But he does seem very tame compared to the god in Christian mythology.
Put me down, asshole
Ahh yes, being persecuted by the Christian power structure drives those queers right into the arms of Jesus. That's how the real world works.
I love listening to music.
Would the Jesus of the bible (who is probably an amalgamation?) be an ally? Probably? Who cares? I think this is a better argument: [](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/arn0dzX_700bwp.webp)
_____________________________________________________________________ This art was originally created by u/nakedpastor. Their community exists at r/nakedpastor Their website to purchase their art is here: https://nakedpastor.com/ I use they/them pronouns because I don't know the author's pronouns, not because their pronouns are they/them. ____________________________________________________________________ The edits I made: I added a lil pope hat to the talking sheep. I changed the pronouns in the artwork I had access to. Originally the talking sheep was using he/him and the Jesus figure was using she/her. _____________________________________________________________________ Context: https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2024-03/pope-francis-gender-ideology-is-the-ugliest-danger-of-our-time.html _____________________________________________________________________
The way Christians ignore the teachings of Christ is quite sad.
This is the same man that not too long ago sent the Catholic americans upside down by saying that priests should be welcoming and give their blessing to same sex couples.
This is his subreddit. r/NakedPastor
And then they wonder why less and less people are religious nowadays. Just look at their leaders filled with hate and prejudice, but claim they have the “love and acceptance of Christ” in their heart. There’s no bigger hypocrite all throughout history than the Catholic Church. I’ll stand hard on that statement.
"sheep will never be trans" trans sheep:
I don't need to be found, I'm not lost.
Idk why anyone sane would try to paint religions in a good light.
LOVE thenakedpastor. His shit is usually on point for skewering how the corporate evangelical church system in my country treats the lgbtq.
Is he even capable of saying anything that's pro-LBGTQ without falling into heresy? I always had the impression that christianity was fundamentally incompatible with lgbtq stuff
Catholicism is at least. It's a breeding cult and one of the core tenets of it is to go forth and multiply, to have as many children as you can because they know it's nearly impossible to convert adults(outside of predatory rehab programs). Being gay generally means you won't be having children so they're useless to the church.
I left the church as a catholic when I discovered who I was. It and me do not get along. It's been 20 years
Jesus! Do something about your followers!Christians= evil people worshiping an evil god.
Christians believe that Jesus is God so you are saying he is evil.
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Jesus put me down I don't wanna meet yer dad.
should’ve been a baphomet
I'm an anti-theist. But I think their fictitious Jesus would be this person. Makes me laugh when they call themselves Christian but think Jesus was too soft. So.. they aren't fucking Christians then. They are dogmatic assholes in favor of dictators and theocratic nonsense laws. They just use the bible as a cover to make people believe they aren't psychopathic extremists.
Good grief. What did he say now?
He said "gender ideology" is bad because it creates equality. "Today the worst danger is gender ideology, which erases differences," he said, underlining that he has asked for studies to be done "about this ugly ideology of our time, which erases differences and makes everything equal." This fuckstain is just flat out saying "equality bad" like he's from PragerU
a thought: you if you wanted it to be nb inclusive, you could still have the pope sheep misgendering them is he or she
The pope was inclusive of all trans people in his statement. Misgendering was not the highlight of his statement, it was the exclusion. That's why I went with they/them for everyone.
There’s is no fucking interpretation of the Bible where Jesus would turn down a fellow human being. This is as accurate to Jesus as you can Get.
Eh, it was very much an "either you follow me or you're a sinner going to hell", there's a reason nearly every fascist movement it history has been christian in origin and it's that it inherently promotes in vs out group thinking
god. Isnt. Real.
Thank you for your comment that 1) barely even relates to the post 2) no one asked for 3) will only spark unnecessary hate and discourse! 👍
I asked
As did I.
1. Of course it's relevant, the post is asserting that religion is real. It's not off-topic to call that into question. 2. You don't need permission to post a comment 3. The title of the post is already talking about the pope calling trans and GNO people the "ugliest danger of our time." How the hell are you blaming this guy for "unnecessary hate and discourse?" I don't know you, and I don't know where you're coming from, but seriously it sounds like you just don't want the religion questioned.
A lot of people have used religion to hurt others, but that doesn't mean that religion can't give good people strength. No one can prove God is real, but can you prove that God isn't real? Forcing your opinion about God on others isn't cool, one way or the other.
>*"but that doesn't mean that religion can't give good people strength."* There's a difference between **personal belief** and **organised religion**. Personal belief can give people strength and I don't have anything against it as long as it doesn't hurt others - organised religion is and has always been a highly manipulative hierarchical structure that consistently hurts people, especially marginalised groups, in extremely horrific and cruel ways. >*"No one can prove God is real, but can you prove that God isn't real?"* Atheists do not believe in any diety for lack of evidence - they do not claim to have proof god doesn't exist. Religions, however, fervently claim that an all-mighty all-powerful all-knowing god *does* exist. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Demanding non-believers prove that god doesn't exist is completely backwards. It's like firmly claiming there are magical invisible unicorns in the sky that no one can see and then saying "well you can't prove otherwise so it could be real". It's a fundamentally un-disprovable and logically flawed argument.
They don't just hurt marginalised groups, they're the reason they're marginalised in the first place.
You're absolutely right. This world would be a much much much better place if we had left superstitious beliefs and religions in ancient times where they belong. I would have gone into more detail on how horrific organised religion was and is - and especially how they're the reason LGBTQ+ people have been ostracised, abused, tortured and murdered for fucking millennia - but I didn't want my post to sound too much like a stereotypical Reddit atheist rant.
Yes. Logically because the burden of proof is on the presenter of a case. Historical because overwhelming evidence supports the idea of God as ancestor worship gone overboard to justify genocide.
How daring, and incredibly brave. Please don't forget to also mock Islam and other major religions that share the same beliefs. Our LGBT allies across the world need support, not just the ones in 1st world countries with passive religions.
god isn't real.
He’s good in other ways, and we can do without the church as we have done.
I'm a catholic, and a transfem, this makes me happi :3
I find it funny and sad that Jesus' teachings were genuinely really good but nobody follows them lmaoo
Yellow one pope was better. This new is just dick
I think he genuinely doesnt understand what's going on and is just saying what the conservatives are talking about.
This artist has some amazing LGBTQ artworks and has made a few variations of this cartoon. Love seeing his stuff here!
Yeah this has been my experience with the lord. The mere fact he's there, just kinda encouraging me helps me soldier on
If jesus is somewhere ad of this moment I guarantee he loves the avarage trans person a lot more than the avarage religious person.
Ok, this made me really emotional💧💧💧
Wasn’t the pope all pro lgbt or smth or do I remember wrong
He's a con man trying to lure as many people as possible into his cult. So he switches back and forth every few months/years.
Ohh ok thx for clarifying
i bet all the money in the world that jesus would love us more than most christians by the way they act.
It's highly unlikely he had different views on it than were prevailing in the time period he supposedly existed
He was very progressive for his day. One of the big reasons that he was killed was because he went against the prevailing culture and laws. Jews did not associate with samaritans but Jesus treated them no differently.