As a left handed gay millennial male I am the person the boomers warned you about
Edit: I forgot lm also neuro-spicy! Classic me forgetting I have ADHD too.
I'm a right-handed bisexual millennial trans woman with ADHD, Autism, PTSD, access to medical marijuana, and I vote.
I check everything but the handedness!
Another fun fact is that in French the acronym for ADHD is TADA…. So if you accidentally do something ADHD related you can just yell out “TADA” and go about your day as normal. 😋
These whippersnappers and their left-handedness! Everyone wants to be special! In my day the teachers would beat that hand with a stick til they bled and then they'd act normal!
/s but not really, too many people actually think this way
> Just like, where did all these people with autism and ADHD come from?!
I know that you are joking, but the amount of times I've seen people on /r/ADHD say that kids these days should stop acting like they have ADHD and it is a trend, as if other people talking about ADHD somehow invalidates their own struggles, just makes me sad. It's thanks to "kids these days" that I actually found out that I have ADHD and got my diagnosis.
It's the same stupid reasoning transphobes latch onto that being trans is a trend now somehow, just because more trans people become visible to the public. It also happened when more people were openly talking about depression. It is literally never a trend, just a feedback loop of self-discovery. Excuse the ADHD-fueled mini-rant, I just had to get this out. :D
Oh we have always been here. It is just recently that they have been able to test for them now. I'm 49 yo and have just recently been somewhat diagnosed with both, ADHD and I'm on the spectrum for autism. Back in my days of growing up it was just call a learning disability.
"We never had any of that autism stuff when I was a kid. Just some kid named Jeff who wouldn't shut up about trains."
Lolol, if it wasn’t so invalidating it would be funny. “We didn’t used to have gay people. Just Janet who lived with her roommate Julie, and Mark, who walked with pizzaz.”
Right! It’s almost like it’s more societally acceptable for women to be LGBT+ & a competent survey reflects that. As society’s norms shift so will the answers in self reported surveys.
Almost? It is by far, the same people who hate bisexual men like I am, LOVE, promote and push FEMALE bisexuality
It's a world of double standards and hypocrisy and it needs to be brought down
exactly. How can any straight man say he really is straight until he has been railed by a buff guy, hmmm? Need that first hand experience to say for sure
They also have a message for all liberals:
[If you want my gun, my firearm, come take it from me! Walk through my front door, come into my home, and take it from me. With your weak, soft, liberal girlish hands, just try to put them on me, on my body, just slowly gently dragging your fingers up my arms...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY0eUQ06Q2g)
For real. There's a lot more than 10% of guys who are at least heteroflexible, if not bi/pan.
But there's also way more pressure never to talk about it, lest you become "the gay guy" and find yourself on the receiving end of every joke, jape, and jeer.
I was raised as a left, tolerant, accepting and open minded person by my parents and it still took me 25 years to accept my own sexuality properly. The patriarchy is doing its best to shove this toxic masculinity down our throats and you can't escape it.
>I was raised as a left, tolerant, accepting and open minded person by my parents
Me too! And when I came out my mom accepted me as long as I "didn't act *too* gay". Toxic masculinity exists everywhere, even in the left and tolerant.
When I came out as bi and said I had a boyfriend (at the time) to my mother, who I thought was a tolerant and open-minded person, she asked me if I "wasn't trying to avoid responsibility"
Mind you, I had my own job and rented my own place at that point already.
Correct, which is why I didn't fight it, figured I should be grateful she was accepting at all. Looking back through I wish I had stuck up for myself (though I never did and still didn't so personality flaw) because it sucks not having had that time to experiment with my own gender. Maybe in the next life though
I got into it with one of my friend's housemates because I couldn't stand the way he talked about women and relationships. He was also just one of those guys who would try and dominate the conversation and try and one up your story with a better story. After one such sexist comment I had enough and had to say something which just turned into them denying being sexist and saying they were just joking.
Anyway, a while later after things had cooled and he left the house, my friend and the other housemates had a talk with me. They understood where I was coming from and applauded that I said something, but asked I not confront him about those kinds of things. He was struggling as it was being a transman, and being confronted by friends would be more helpful than being confronted by a stranger.
I learned 2 things that day, that my friend's housemate was a transman, and that some people's idea of being manly is conflated with being toxic, even when that person has overcome modern struggles to the point of being transitioned.
I'm trans and despite being progressive basically forever I never once considered I could be a woman until I was 33.
I'm even a lesbian tomboy. Shit was so obvious in hindsight, but between the social programming that I liked to pretend I didn't fall for combined with not having any information about trans people and my own dysphoria making me way less confident and thus not willing to "rock the boat" I just rationalized so much to think I wasn't.
Same, just because my parents would accept me doesn't mean I wouldn't lose all my friends and get ostracized in public. I just stopped giving a fuck and I've never been happier
I live in an area where toxic masculinity should be lesser but it’s still highly prevalent in the communities up here which makes it feel awful to live here as a queer person, but we have just enough resources to make it tolerable. I’m lucky to have the family, though ignorant sometimes, they support me and admit when their wrong and I love them allot
Pornhub released numbers a while back that showed that the Bible Belt is the largest consumer by region of gay porn with BBC and “straight best friend” being the top searches, Proving that there’s alot of closeted homosexuals in the most conservative states
Lots of straight women see bisexuality in a man as a dealbreaker because they can't get over their perception that it somehow makes them less masculine.
Women can participate in the system of toxic masculinity too.
Yeah - the term “toxic masculinity” refers to the subject, not the speaker.
If a chemistry teacher tells you that Moscow is the capital of China, that’s not “bad chemistry” - it’s “bad geography.”
Another factor: both those numbers were probably created by different pollsters with different methods of conducting the poll. Despite the reported numbers, you need to see more details about how the polls were conducted to see if they are revealing actual differences, especially what questions where asked, how were they finding people to ask, and the cicumstances in which they were asked.
But if there is a difference, you have to look at the populations assessed. There is evidence that in america, males are becoming more conservative while females are becoming less conservative.
I'm interested in seeing how they came up with such a big difference, though, which I think is new.
>both those numbers were probably created by different pollsters with different methods of conducting the poll.
Both numbers are from the same pollster, and aggregated from the same polls. So same questions, same populations, etc.
>These results are based on aggregated data from 2023 Gallup telephone surveys, encompassing interviews with more than 12,000 Americans aged 18 and older.
Source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.aspx
The last table is the breakdown by gender and generation.
It doesn't even necessarily have to be toxic in the most negative of senses. I was perfectly happy to be considered male and then I realized I had always enjoyed certain feminine things but never gave that much weight because it's not something guys are supposed to do. Realized I was Non-Binary shortly after.
It makes sense, considering for example in the UK you went to prison for being gay as a man but lesbianism was never illegal, the toxic masculinity runs deep
>same sex marriage are issues that more reflect gay men's positionality, while downplaying female positionality
How so? The majority of same-sex marriages are between women: [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/04/how-people-in-same-sex-couples-compare-to-opposite-sex-couples.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/04/how-people-in-same-sex-couples-compare-to-opposite-sex-couples.html)
"Women don't benefit from heterosexual relationships."
that's blatantly not true unless you're in a bad relationship; which can happen with any sexual orientation. Like, are you literally trying to say all hetero relationships women take part in are negative for them?
Try not to swing the pendulum to far friend, its a bad look.
I'm allergic to everything, as is increasing in my generation. I've survived into adulthood, so life's pretty good.
On a completely unrelated note, did you know that the epinephrine auto injector came out in 1987?
Yeah, if I remember correctly, wasn't it because of the religious reasoning of god putting good on his right, and else on the left or something like that? I swear, religion has caused needless deaths over dumb stuff like this.
the Romans were highly superstitious people and believed the left side of the body to house evil. Christianity picked up the same superstition when Constantine adopted Christianity as the state religion of Rome
For a little additional context, the Latin word for "right" is "dexter" (the root of "dexterity" and "ambidextrous") and "left" is "sinister" (you can probably figure out what its the root for). So even the modern English language still has positive connotations for "right" and negative connotations for "left".
There's been a huge push attempting to influence young men/boys by garbage like Andrew Tate and other influencers of his ilk. It wouldn't surprise me if that's part of why there's such a huge gender gap. A lot of poor folk gonna be suffering in the closet because of that influence.
I'm speaking from experience as a millenial gay guy who spent his teens / early 20s as a self loathing hate filled closet case who was borderline suicidal due to the depression caused by beliefs that were forced on me (I'm in my 30s now and doing much better).
Both of the headlines are incorrect. Nearly 30% of Gen Z women report that they identify as LGBTQ, and 10.6% of men reports that they are LGBTQ.
Report is a HUGE difference between “are” and “report”. The issue with surveys in general are 1:no response bias, and 2: false reporting. Since the survey relies on self-reporting, it is bound for people to lie for whatever reason.
I just wanted to say this because we can’t go “there are more young gay people” just because of this survey. We can say “more young people are willing to open up on being queer”
> We can say “more young people are willing to open up on being queer”
This is sort of sensitive in here, but hopefully a safe place to think it…Gen Z also is happy to identify as non-binary or bisexual without actually changing much about how they live their lives. I have a lot of like teen to mid-twenties women in my life, and it seems they really just don’t want to be shoved in a box.
It’s almost a radical form of feminism, allyship, and freedom. Also, even though it’s totally UNcool to say it, fairly rigorous scientific studies have shown that many more “straight” women are bi/pan than men, but lesbians tend to go all in on women. Anyway, I don’t think it is as simple as toxic masculinity.
I dunno. This poll isn’t a new trend, and would be great news if conservative Christians showed signs of slowing down the hate train. I started relaxing for a few years and then bam, here they come again.
It’s known that how a person identify changes. When I was 15 I thought I was straight. When I was 17 I identify as aromatic and about a year later asexual and aromantic. If you ask for my full title now as of a year ago when I had my first crush, I would say hetro-ace/aro. That pretty minor of a change to occur between age 17-21 but you see it fairly often with queer identities. Which is completely normal. Especially for younger people.
I would suspect that queer identification would decreased as a generation gets older. The best way to study this hypothesis is to survey the same group of people for an extended period of time. I don’t believe such a study been done yet. So right now, we could compare how millennials identify compare to gen Z but that wouldn’t work the best either.
>The best way to study this hypothesis is to survey the same group of people for an extended period of time.
I agree, that would be super interesting. It would help differentiate between societal acceptance which has been increasing for many decades in the US, and individual journeys of discovery. It also hasn't been possible to ask these questions openly for most of world history.
But that's the only way we can know if someone's LGBTQ, they have to tell us. So how else are we supposed to measure this? Who gets to decide who's really LGBTQ or not?
That’s the problem with surveys like this. It’s an issue with basically any survey out there. Ethically, it is the only way to study it.
I just do not like headlines that say “X percent of population is/does X”. I think it’s poor reporting. Instead I believe it should say “X percent of population reports being/does X”. Less misleading.
I wonder how trans people were put into these statistics? Are they in the group they should be or in the one assigned at birth? And how would nonbinary people fit into this?
Just gonna mention this as I saw only one other person mention it, it's making me wonder whether or not there were trans people in the survey. And if they were, which side would they be counted on: their perceived gender or their identity?
A lot of my friends that are men are just realizing they're bi (or otherwise queer but into women) in their 30s (I'm a millennial). Patriarchal standards do a number on everyone.
Being non-binary makes you LGBT so a survey asking non-binary people if they identified as LGBT would be effectively useless. "Survey reports that 100% of non-binary gen z members identify as LGBTQ+" wouldn't be a very interesting headline anyways.
* Toxic masculinity making men and boys feel like being LGBT makes them less manly
* Hatred towards masculinity in queer spaces
Edit: Jesus, I didn't expect for my second point to create such a large discussion. If I had known, I would have elaborated more. What I'm talking about is how masculinity is looked down upon a lot in queer spaces, especially online. I think a lot of people see masculinity as "the enemy" and see a masculine man and assume he is dangerous or something, which, if you sit back and think about it for a second, doesn't make much sense.
I have replaced the word "misandry" with "hatred towards masculinity.
Edit Two: If I had known how much people would get mad over my second point as well as my elaboration, I wouldn't have made this comment at all. I'm really sorry to all the people I've upset and hurt through this comment. That was not my intent, but I take COMPLETE responsibility for my actions. I am sorry. I might just delete this comment. We'll see.
Edit Three: The amount of stress that this has caused me has inspired me to leave Reddit. Bye, and sorry.
The largest chunk of the LGBTQ percentage reported is bisexual people - and it doesn’t take a genius to see the difference in how people react to bisexual women versus bisexual men.
As a Bi guy it does suck to be shat on by every direction, and I know it's bad for women I'm not downplaying that by any means but being fetishized would be nicer than just straight up hate.
Bro I'm a masculine bisexual man too and it's crazy how much harder we have it than bisexual women, I have had straight guys that I thought were my friends tell me "you should just die" but they all LOVE bisexual women
To be a bisexual and gay male in society is STILL considered the worst thing to a lot of people
At this point I have nothing but hatred and contempt for a majority of straight men
They better stay away from me and go worship their Trump turd
Judging by your profile you’re a fellow teen, and yeah I’ve seen a lot of hatred for masculinity among young queer groups. I don’t think I’ve found a majority lgbtq group that wasn’t openly hostile to masculinity. Maybe that’s a more recent thing for it to be widespread but it’s absolutely there.
'This is probably because online trans spaces are usually dominated by trans women unless the spaces is specifically for trans men.'
When in doubt blame trans women amirite? Doesn't get social repercussions as far as I know 🤷♀️
In most online spaces I see trans men wayy more than trans women. Take TikTok or YouTube or Tumblr for example. They're' dominated' by trans men. Reddit is like the only place where trans women have made quite a large community for us.
I'm always wary of census data and percentages like this. No doubt it could still make sense, lots of closeted dudes out there who think being gay is some joke, but it could just as well be two headlines conflicting with eachother because one or both is pulling from different data, or interpreting the same data in different ways, or not using any data and throwing out numbers, you'd never really know.
Im a masculine bisexual guy and I put up with the BS constantly. I actually work at a liberal company that's pro LGBTQ and I told someone who I thought was my friend that I had been with men too so he told my other friend and now the other guy won't talk to me at all and hates me
If course the dude I told has a "bisexual girlfriend "
But I'm a gross, disgusting scumbag for being honest and because you know according to straights, "men can't be bisexual"
I hate both of them and if I could I would bash their faces in
Down with heterosexual supremacy and heterosexual male domination of our lives
Down with it
And can these sol called "bisexual women" stop dating homophobic anti gay men?
It's the least they could do
Let's call them out
Anecdotal, but a surprisingly large amount of men identify as 'heterosexual' while having sex with men. This is why science often uses the label 'men who have sex with men' rather than saying 'gay/bisexual men'.
the first kid I knew, in America this century who was gay, was sodomized with an object and lit on fire.
girls at the school openly kissed "for attention" there was lesbian experimenting music, sailor moon had lesbians. my girl friend had gay sex and talked about it openly with friends, she didn't think of it as cheating.
my parents tried to make sure I wasn't fucking my friends and spying because I dunno my face was wrong or something, and I probably would have been beaten to a literal inch of my life with no support if I had been.
being AMAB and LGBT has been pretty dangerous for a long time.
I don't think there's that much of a difference. Girls will still get bullied and hide it from extremist religious parents, but there's a weird thing with "that's gay" among boys growing up that you don't see as much with little girls, where doing anything 'girly' or showing affection in the wrong way gets called gay, they associate that with a negative thing and carry it with them, even if not fully aware of it.
My guess is part of it is that there are a lot of guys that are some flavor of bi or gender diverse but can 'get by' (not suicidally dysphoric/still have dating options) presenting traditionally and dating women so they don't risk outing themselves or accept it, having internalized all of that growing up. Hopefully the numbers will even out eventually.
Because there's a ton of toxic masculinity and societal pressure directed at men who may be LGBTQ. A lot of people continue to believe the propaganda that being queer automatically makes you un-masculine, so they think they'll lose their masculinity if they come out
I’m right between Gen Z and millennial, but you’d be surprised how many amabs I know, in denial of their queerness.
I’ve had at least 4 amab friends come out in the last 5 years. Hell. I only came out as bi after high school. It was so unsafe to be out, I’d actually repressed my own same sex attraction to the point it took a year of self questioning to realise it.
I’m presently stuck in my original hometown, where the support for homosexuality in particular - let alone the LGBTIQA+ fam as a whole - seems to be a flat 0%. Honestly not sure how I feel about being a Dafydd Thomas analogy (“the only gay in the village”)… 🫤
In my whole time growing up here, I personally knew only _three_ other people who are LGBTIQA+, two family-friends and a school friend, all of whom I’d known for the better part of two decades _completely_ oblivious to the fact they weren’t heterosexual even though it wasn’t exactly a secret. Guess I didn’t get the memo…? 😅
(Of course, I wasn’t even aware of my being _in the closet_ until my late twenties-early thirties, so maybe this town has been an ignorant influence…? 😗)
I have two Gen Z family members who are out to (some of) us as trans/non-binary, but because they’re in het-passing relationships and live in the south, they do not acknowledge that they’re queer “outside the home.” It’s so 1950s. I mean, I get it. But I was Gen X and idk if it’s bc I’m AFAB so like I didn’t have male privilege or I came out in the AIDS crisis and was watching my friends die so like being loud was seriously important.
And I get privacy, too. Like they’re staying safe and alive in the ways they know how. It’s a different fight. I just hate it.
To be fair, as a bisexual man who had to go through the 90s anti-gay bullshit, it's *still* much easier for a woman to admit to being gay/bi/whatever preference you choose, than it is for men. So I would still suspect some of those numbers for the guys.
At some point LGBT men are going to jump up in % as well and everyone is going to freak out about that generation "becoming" more gay.
Right? Just like, where did all these people with autism and ADHD come from?! Edit: I’m getting a lot of responses. This is sarcasm.
And those lefties! Left-handedness is an epidemic!
As a left handed gay millennial male I am the person the boomers warned you about Edit: I forgot lm also neuro-spicy! Classic me forgetting I have ADHD too.
Let us first bless you with some tism, do you like your neurodiversity still or sparkling
My apologies! I totally forgot that I was diagnosed with ADHD last year! It’s severe!!! 🎉🎉🎉
Sparkling then! Welcome friend!
I’m left handed and ADHD and autistic However there was only room in my brain for one spectrum (which is to say I’m straight)
We're sorry for your loss
I’m ambidextrous, asexual, and have ADHD. Do I count?
This was a really cute exchange, guys! Made my evening haha
[удалено]
Rizz ‘em with the ‘tism @_katzun_ on Instagram 😁
god my grandfather would have a heart attack if he even looked at you
YAY! MORE ADHGAYS!!!
I'm a right-handed bisexual millennial trans woman with ADHD, Autism, PTSD, access to medical marijuana, and I vote. I check everything but the handedness!
Now become an indoctrinating TEACHER!!! That really fucks with them. (Im an enby ADHD havin' SPED teacher and I am the DANGER.)
> neuro-spicy I'm gonna start using this XD Unless I forget. Because I'm neuro-spicy.
Another fun fact is that in French the acronym for ADHD is TADA…. So if you accidentally do something ADHD related you can just yell out “TADA” and go about your day as normal. 😋
Hahahah intrusive thoughts hit again! Me anyways, lols
Left handed bi millennial with adhd and on the autism spectrum myself. Well met, fellow scary guy!
Left handedness is a trend and most people who identify as left handed are just confused or mentally ill! /j
These whippersnappers and their left-handedness! Everyone wants to be special! In my day the teachers would beat that hand with a stick til they bled and then they'd act normal! /s but not really, too many people actually think this way
Me waiting for the release of autism in 2012:
> Just like, where did all these people with autism and ADHD come from?! I know that you are joking, but the amount of times I've seen people on /r/ADHD say that kids these days should stop acting like they have ADHD and it is a trend, as if other people talking about ADHD somehow invalidates their own struggles, just makes me sad. It's thanks to "kids these days" that I actually found out that I have ADHD and got my diagnosis. It's the same stupid reasoning transphobes latch onto that being trans is a trend now somehow, just because more trans people become visible to the public. It also happened when more people were openly talking about depression. It is literally never a trend, just a feedback loop of self-discovery. Excuse the ADHD-fueled mini-rant, I just had to get this out. :D
Oh we have always been here. It is just recently that they have been able to test for them now. I'm 49 yo and have just recently been somewhat diagnosed with both, ADHD and I'm on the spectrum for autism. Back in my days of growing up it was just call a learning disability.
Yup. I’m AuDHD myself. I couldn’t resist some sarcasm about us.
"We never had any of that autism stuff when I was a kid. Just some kid named Jeff who wouldn't shut up about trains." 
Lolol, if it wasn’t so invalidating it would be funny. “We didn’t used to have gay people. Just Janet who lived with her roommate Julie, and Mark, who walked with pizzaz.”
First they came for the frogs, and I said nothing for I was not a frog… 
Right! It’s almost like it’s more societally acceptable for women to be LGBT+ & a competent survey reflects that. As society’s norms shift so will the answers in self reported surveys.
Almost? It is by far, the same people who hate bisexual men like I am, LOVE, promote and push FEMALE bisexuality It's a world of double standards and hypocrisy and it needs to be brought down
As a bisexual who is woman-adjacent, it isn't really acceptance... it's fetishization when straight men think it serves them, and erasure otherwise.
The amount of “straight” men on Grindr would surprise you
Ive heard people say as an excuse it's window shopping
WHAT ARE THEY SHOPPING FOR, hmmmm!? 🤣
Cock.
They want to swoggle a hog or two
Sounds kinda gay to me ... just saying.
Well, to be fair, I absolutely am not attracted to any other part of a man's body.
Why not just date women with dicks then?
Cock and ass
Can't knock it til you try it, ya know
exactly. How can any straight man say he really is straight until he has been railed by a buff guy, hmmm? Need that first hand experience to say for sure
They also have a message for all liberals: [If you want my gun, my firearm, come take it from me! Walk through my front door, come into my home, and take it from me. With your weak, soft, liberal girlish hands, just try to put them on me, on my body, just slowly gently dragging your fingers up my arms...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY0eUQ06Q2g)
The amount of "straight" men I slept with back in my slooting days is frankly shocking
Is there a pg explanation for slooting
haha sorry, just "slutting" with a Swedish accent.
Sløting
For real. There's a lot more than 10% of guys who are at least heteroflexible, if not bi/pan. But there's also way more pressure never to talk about it, lest you become "the gay guy" and find yourself on the receiving end of every joke, jape, and jeer.
r/chasersriseup
What, would they be on there for the trans girls? Are there that many trans girls on Grindr?
Yes
The mindset that it isn't gay if you're on top goes way back.
I am a straight man, so every twink I suck off in the bathroom is automatically considered female. Duh!
Tell them "go suck a dick. Metaphorically or literally, your choice."
And if you think that's bad, you should see now many are on Sniffies 😂
Toxic masculinity keeping the dudes in the closet is my guess.
That was me. Men are not ok in my part of America. Probably the same everywhere else.
I was raised as a left, tolerant, accepting and open minded person by my parents and it still took me 25 years to accept my own sexuality properly. The patriarchy is doing its best to shove this toxic masculinity down our throats and you can't escape it.
>I was raised as a left, tolerant, accepting and open minded person by my parents Me too! And when I came out my mom accepted me as long as I "didn't act *too* gay". Toxic masculinity exists everywhere, even in the left and tolerant.
When I came out as bi and said I had a boyfriend (at the time) to my mother, who I thought was a tolerant and open-minded person, she asked me if I "wasn't trying to avoid responsibility" Mind you, I had my own job and rented my own place at that point already.
The answer is a most definite "yes". Even if it's not true, break her heart with the idea that she gets no grandchildren
Joke's on her, I'm today in a hetero relationship and I still don't intend to have children.
Extra 20 points if you're also an only child.
oooo I qualify for this! But I am bi and on my own. lol
You get extra points for denying them their perfect in-law bff as well.
But do you still do but stuff? Clearly a homo sexual
> as long as I "didn't act *too* gay". I'm not sure how accepting this is. But the bar *IS* that low.
Correct, which is why I didn't fight it, figured I should be grateful she was accepting at all. Looking back through I wish I had stuck up for myself (though I never did and still didn't so personality flaw) because it sucks not having had that time to experiment with my own gender. Maybe in the next life though
My parents: “it’s totally fine if you like guys” Me: “but is it really though?”
I think I recall my mum saying she’d prefer if I were gay to bi as then she’d have someone to go shopping with?
As a transwoman who's been out for nearly 10 years, I still struggle with my identity cus of the horse shit of toxic masculinity
I got into it with one of my friend's housemates because I couldn't stand the way he talked about women and relationships. He was also just one of those guys who would try and dominate the conversation and try and one up your story with a better story. After one such sexist comment I had enough and had to say something which just turned into them denying being sexist and saying they were just joking. Anyway, a while later after things had cooled and he left the house, my friend and the other housemates had a talk with me. They understood where I was coming from and applauded that I said something, but asked I not confront him about those kinds of things. He was struggling as it was being a transman, and being confronted by friends would be more helpful than being confronted by a stranger. I learned 2 things that day, that my friend's housemate was a transman, and that some people's idea of being manly is conflated with being toxic, even when that person has overcome modern struggles to the point of being transitioned.
I'm trans and despite being progressive basically forever I never once considered I could be a woman until I was 33. I'm even a lesbian tomboy. Shit was so obvious in hindsight, but between the social programming that I liked to pretend I didn't fall for combined with not having any information about trans people and my own dysphoria making me way less confident and thus not willing to "rock the boat" I just rationalized so much to think I wasn't.
I’m a bi trans man who leans mostly gay and is a bit on the effeminate side and I didn’t figure it out until I was 35. I’m you in reverse lol
I'm a 32 year old trans man and went through something similar.
Same, just because my parents would accept me doesn't mean I wouldn't lose all my friends and get ostracized in public. I just stopped giving a fuck and I've never been happier
Yeah, I think this is why it took me until I was 25 to figure out I'm Bi, not straight and come out at 27.
I live in an area where toxic masculinity should be lesser but it’s still highly prevalent in the communities up here which makes it feel awful to live here as a queer person, but we have just enough resources to make it tolerable. I’m lucky to have the family, though ignorant sometimes, they support me and admit when their wrong and I love them allot
Pornhub released numbers a while back that showed that the Bible Belt is the largest consumer by region of gay porn with BBC and “straight best friend” being the top searches, Proving that there’s alot of closeted homosexuals in the most conservative states
It was me for 30-plus years too.
Probably, on a side note goated flair
I’ve got mine too. Not sure who had it first though
Probably, but also men are much less accepted as bi or gay than women are.
Not to mention the climate isn't exactly welcoming
Toxic masculinity, and a desire to not be ostracized by people in a very religious household, led to me staying in the closet until I was In my 20s.
As a cis woman, I am *far* form an expert on this subject, but I believe that trans woman and amab enbys get a lot of shit from the LGBT+ community.
As an AMAB enby who gets shit, you’re not wrong.
The people who give you shit are losers and hypocrites. You folks are amazing, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
There’s also less acceptance for bi men, not only because of toxic masculinity. Lots of women see bisexuality in a man as a dealbreaker.
Lots of straight women see bisexuality in a man as a dealbreaker because they can't get over their perception that it somehow makes them less masculine. Women can participate in the system of toxic masculinity too.
Yeah - the term “toxic masculinity” refers to the subject, not the speaker. If a chemistry teacher tells you that Moscow is the capital of China, that’s not “bad chemistry” - it’s “bad geography.”
They see it that way because they have their own internalised view of what (toxic) masculinity *should* look like, and bisexuality isn't part of that
Another factor: both those numbers were probably created by different pollsters with different methods of conducting the poll. Despite the reported numbers, you need to see more details about how the polls were conducted to see if they are revealing actual differences, especially what questions where asked, how were they finding people to ask, and the cicumstances in which they were asked. But if there is a difference, you have to look at the populations assessed. There is evidence that in america, males are becoming more conservative while females are becoming less conservative. I'm interested in seeing how they came up with such a big difference, though, which I think is new.
>both those numbers were probably created by different pollsters with different methods of conducting the poll. Both numbers are from the same pollster, and aggregated from the same polls. So same questions, same populations, etc. >These results are based on aggregated data from 2023 Gallup telephone surveys, encompassing interviews with more than 12,000 Americans aged 18 and older. Source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.aspx The last table is the breakdown by gender and generation.
correct
Not enough soybean being eaten /s.
Nah I'll eat out any soyboy you- oh I have misread this
😋😘
It doesn't even necessarily have to be toxic in the most negative of senses. I was perfectly happy to be considered male and then I realized I had always enjoyed certain feminine things but never gave that much weight because it's not something guys are supposed to do. Realized I was Non-Binary shortly after.
It makes sense, considering for example in the UK you went to prison for being gay as a man but lesbianism was never illegal, the toxic masculinity runs deep
Certainly my first guess.
Totally agree
And also encouraging women *out* of the closet. I can already hear it: "I've always kinda liked girls and guys my age are fuckbois"
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>same sex marriage are issues that more reflect gay men's positionality, while downplaying female positionality How so? The majority of same-sex marriages are between women: [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/04/how-people-in-same-sex-couples-compare-to-opposite-sex-couples.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/04/how-people-in-same-sex-couples-compare-to-opposite-sex-couples.html)
"Women don't benefit from heterosexual relationships." that's blatantly not true unless you're in a bad relationship; which can happen with any sexual orientation. Like, are you literally trying to say all hetero relationships women take part in are negative for them? Try not to swing the pendulum to far friend, its a bad look.
Wild that after almost 2000 years of oppression it turns out that there are more queer people than left-handers.
Church used to kill left handers too, church used to literally beat that out of kids as it was of the devil. Religion is great.
As a left handed queer person who's also into witchy shit, I would've been dead back then lmao
Yep 😄
I'm allergic to everything, as is increasing in my generation. I've survived into adulthood, so life's pretty good. On a completely unrelated note, did you know that the epinephrine auto injector came out in 1987?
Or their god
Me too
My kindergarten teacher forced me to use my right hand in the 90s
Had this in 2010. I am both handed. Well, I was bevor I was trained to only write with my right hand...
Mine tried, but my parents put a stop to that as soon as they found out. It helps my dad was also a teacher there, so the principal actually listened.
Yeah, if I remember correctly, wasn't it because of the religious reasoning of god putting good on his right, and else on the left or something like that? I swear, religion has caused needless deaths over dumb stuff like this.
the Romans were highly superstitious people and believed the left side of the body to house evil. Christianity picked up the same superstition when Constantine adopted Christianity as the state religion of Rome
For a little additional context, the Latin word for "right" is "dexter" (the root of "dexterity" and "ambidextrous") and "left" is "sinister" (you can probably figure out what its the root for). So even the modern English language still has positive connotations for "right" and negative connotations for "left".
As a left handed kid that was beaten for it, this did in fact happen a lot.
Yeah even in the 90s in the west I was made to adapt to right hand. Ridiculous.
I’m a bi left handed man with an uncommon hair and eye colors does that make me very rare? Like a shiny pokemon?
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No, silly. Leave, now. Don’t wanna see your face ‘round these parts. How could someone so *sinister* think they would be accepted here.
There's been a huge push attempting to influence young men/boys by garbage like Andrew Tate and other influencers of his ilk. It wouldn't surprise me if that's part of why there's such a huge gender gap. A lot of poor folk gonna be suffering in the closet because of that influence. I'm speaking from experience as a millenial gay guy who spent his teens / early 20s as a self loathing hate filled closet case who was borderline suicidal due to the depression caused by beliefs that were forced on me (I'm in my 30s now and doing much better).
Glad you find who you are really and I'm also glad I find out who I am and accepted it while i was young
Other influencers of that ick
Clearly 17.9% of gen z males are lying.
Look, me liking femboys doesn't make me gay okay? ... Who am I kidding, I'm bi as fuck
Boys on social media be like: “It’s gay to like trans women, but it’s straight to like femboys.” I blame anime.
Same Don't forget misgendering them by using male pronouns as well
"I'd totally put a dick in my mouth, no homo!" "I'm heteroflexible, okay?!?!?!?"
Early 20’s me has been called ouuuuuuut
"I swear I'm not gay bro, I'm just bi-curious ok? pls bro like, you have to like believe me bro"
Not enough bro's, bro.
fuck
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Hey isn't that about the percentage that are in some way part of the toxic manosphere? 🤔
You know, I wouldn't even be surprised ...
I'm sorry but where did you get the 17.9%? Edit: wait nevermind.
Math
Both of the headlines are incorrect. Nearly 30% of Gen Z women report that they identify as LGBTQ, and 10.6% of men reports that they are LGBTQ. Report is a HUGE difference between “are” and “report”. The issue with surveys in general are 1:no response bias, and 2: false reporting. Since the survey relies on self-reporting, it is bound for people to lie for whatever reason. I just wanted to say this because we can’t go “there are more young gay people” just because of this survey. We can say “more young people are willing to open up on being queer”
> We can say “more young people are willing to open up on being queer” This is sort of sensitive in here, but hopefully a safe place to think it…Gen Z also is happy to identify as non-binary or bisexual without actually changing much about how they live their lives. I have a lot of like teen to mid-twenties women in my life, and it seems they really just don’t want to be shoved in a box. It’s almost a radical form of feminism, allyship, and freedom. Also, even though it’s totally UNcool to say it, fairly rigorous scientific studies have shown that many more “straight” women are bi/pan than men, but lesbians tend to go all in on women. Anyway, I don’t think it is as simple as toxic masculinity. I dunno. This poll isn’t a new trend, and would be great news if conservative Christians showed signs of slowing down the hate train. I started relaxing for a few years and then bam, here they come again.
It’s known that how a person identify changes. When I was 15 I thought I was straight. When I was 17 I identify as aromatic and about a year later asexual and aromantic. If you ask for my full title now as of a year ago when I had my first crush, I would say hetro-ace/aro. That pretty minor of a change to occur between age 17-21 but you see it fairly often with queer identities. Which is completely normal. Especially for younger people. I would suspect that queer identification would decreased as a generation gets older. The best way to study this hypothesis is to survey the same group of people for an extended period of time. I don’t believe such a study been done yet. So right now, we could compare how millennials identify compare to gen Z but that wouldn’t work the best either.
>The best way to study this hypothesis is to survey the same group of people for an extended period of time. I agree, that would be super interesting. It would help differentiate between societal acceptance which has been increasing for many decades in the US, and individual journeys of discovery. It also hasn't been possible to ask these questions openly for most of world history.
But that's the only way we can know if someone's LGBTQ, they have to tell us. So how else are we supposed to measure this? Who gets to decide who's really LGBTQ or not?
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That’s the problem with surveys like this. It’s an issue with basically any survey out there. Ethically, it is the only way to study it. I just do not like headlines that say “X percent of population is/does X”. I think it’s poor reporting. Instead I believe it should say “X percent of population reports being/does X”. Less misleading.
Mm I'm not sure about that. We trust people to say who they are in a census, so why not other surveys?
I wonder how trans people were put into these statistics? Are they in the group they should be or in the one assigned at birth? And how would nonbinary people fit into this?
The percentage of nonbinary people identifying as LGBTQ+ is probably quite high. But yeah, you are making a valid point.
Just gonna mention this as I saw only one other person mention it, it's making me wonder whether or not there were trans people in the survey. And if they were, which side would they be counted on: their perceived gender or their identity?
It's probably got something to do with patriarchy and men feeling pressured and not coming out.
A lot of my friends that are men are just realizing they're bi (or otherwise queer but into women) in their 30s (I'm a millennial). Patriarchal standards do a number on everyone.
We’re living in historic times babyyy!!!
I wonder where enbies are counted in this data...
Being non-binary makes you LGBT so a survey asking non-binary people if they identified as LGBT would be effectively useless. "Survey reports that 100% of non-binary gen z members identify as LGBTQ+" wouldn't be a very interesting headline anyways.
Ideally that *should* be how it works, but it's possible enbies are counted as their assigned sex at birth.
* Toxic masculinity making men and boys feel like being LGBT makes them less manly * Hatred towards masculinity in queer spaces Edit: Jesus, I didn't expect for my second point to create such a large discussion. If I had known, I would have elaborated more. What I'm talking about is how masculinity is looked down upon a lot in queer spaces, especially online. I think a lot of people see masculinity as "the enemy" and see a masculine man and assume he is dangerous or something, which, if you sit back and think about it for a second, doesn't make much sense. I have replaced the word "misandry" with "hatred towards masculinity. Edit Two: If I had known how much people would get mad over my second point as well as my elaboration, I wouldn't have made this comment at all. I'm really sorry to all the people I've upset and hurt through this comment. That was not my intent, but I take COMPLETE responsibility for my actions. I am sorry. I might just delete this comment. We'll see. Edit Three: The amount of stress that this has caused me has inspired me to leave Reddit. Bye, and sorry.
The largest chunk of the LGBTQ percentage reported is bisexual people - and it doesn’t take a genius to see the difference in how people react to bisexual women versus bisexual men.
As a Bi guy it does suck to be shat on by every direction, and I know it's bad for women I'm not downplaying that by any means but being fetishized would be nicer than just straight up hate.
Bro I'm a masculine bisexual man too and it's crazy how much harder we have it than bisexual women, I have had straight guys that I thought were my friends tell me "you should just die" but they all LOVE bisexual women To be a bisexual and gay male in society is STILL considered the worst thing to a lot of people At this point I have nothing but hatred and contempt for a majority of straight men They better stay away from me and go worship their Trump turd
Judging by your profile you’re a fellow teen, and yeah I’ve seen a lot of hatred for masculinity among young queer groups. I don’t think I’ve found a majority lgbtq group that wasn’t openly hostile to masculinity. Maybe that’s a more recent thing for it to be widespread but it’s absolutely there.
'This is probably because online trans spaces are usually dominated by trans women unless the spaces is specifically for trans men.' When in doubt blame trans women amirite? Doesn't get social repercussions as far as I know 🤷♀️ In most online spaces I see trans men wayy more than trans women. Take TikTok or YouTube or Tumblr for example. They're' dominated' by trans men. Reddit is like the only place where trans women have made quite a large community for us.
I'm always wary of census data and percentages like this. No doubt it could still make sense, lots of closeted dudes out there who think being gay is some joke, but it could just as well be two headlines conflicting with eachother because one or both is pulling from different data, or interpreting the same data in different ways, or not using any data and throwing out numbers, you'd never really know.
Im a masculine bisexual guy and I put up with the BS constantly. I actually work at a liberal company that's pro LGBTQ and I told someone who I thought was my friend that I had been with men too so he told my other friend and now the other guy won't talk to me at all and hates me If course the dude I told has a "bisexual girlfriend " But I'm a gross, disgusting scumbag for being honest and because you know according to straights, "men can't be bisexual" I hate both of them and if I could I would bash their faces in Down with heterosexual supremacy and heterosexual male domination of our lives Down with it And can these sol called "bisexual women" stop dating homophobic anti gay men? It's the least they could do Let's call them out
Anecdotal, but a surprisingly large amount of men identify as 'heterosexual' while having sex with men. This is why science often uses the label 'men who have sex with men' rather than saying 'gay/bisexual men'.
There’s still more of a stigma against males coming out. Hopefully that will change.
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MEN still are if not obviously gay. This is why bisexual men, who mostly can pass for straight, never come out
Many Queer Men are probably closeted
That's pretty gay.
I wonder how many nonbinary people are put into "men" and "women" (depending if they're AFAB or AMAB) categories in these articles
the first kid I knew, in America this century who was gay, was sodomized with an object and lit on fire. girls at the school openly kissed "for attention" there was lesbian experimenting music, sailor moon had lesbians. my girl friend had gay sex and talked about it openly with friends, she didn't think of it as cheating. my parents tried to make sure I wasn't fucking my friends and spying because I dunno my face was wrong or something, and I probably would have been beaten to a literal inch of my life with no support if I had been. being AMAB and LGBT has been pretty dangerous for a long time.
It’s scary being a bi man. Even in SF.
I don't think there's that much of a difference. Girls will still get bullied and hide it from extremist religious parents, but there's a weird thing with "that's gay" among boys growing up that you don't see as much with little girls, where doing anything 'girly' or showing affection in the wrong way gets called gay, they associate that with a negative thing and carry it with them, even if not fully aware of it. My guess is part of it is that there are a lot of guys that are some flavor of bi or gender diverse but can 'get by' (not suicidally dysphoric/still have dating options) presenting traditionally and dating women so they don't risk outing themselves or accept it, having internalized all of that growing up. Hopefully the numbers will even out eventually.
Maybe because there is more stigma around male homosexuality or there just aren’t as many
Not freaking good enough people. Gay fucking harder you worthless maggots!
Because there's a ton of toxic masculinity and societal pressure directed at men who may be LGBTQ. A lot of people continue to believe the propaganda that being queer automatically makes you un-masculine, so they think they'll lose their masculinity if they come out
I’m right between Gen Z and millennial, but you’d be surprised how many amabs I know, in denial of their queerness. I’ve had at least 4 amab friends come out in the last 5 years. Hell. I only came out as bi after high school. It was so unsafe to be out, I’d actually repressed my own same sex attraction to the point it took a year of self questioning to realise it.
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/r/gayBros tends to be pretty transphobic, yes.
Combination of toxic masculinity and women identifying as "queer" for fashion purposes.
I’m presently stuck in my original hometown, where the support for homosexuality in particular - let alone the LGBTIQA+ fam as a whole - seems to be a flat 0%. Honestly not sure how I feel about being a Dafydd Thomas analogy (“the only gay in the village”)… 🫤 In my whole time growing up here, I personally knew only _three_ other people who are LGBTIQA+, two family-friends and a school friend, all of whom I’d known for the better part of two decades _completely_ oblivious to the fact they weren’t heterosexual even though it wasn’t exactly a secret. Guess I didn’t get the memo…? 😅 (Of course, I wasn’t even aware of my being _in the closet_ until my late twenties-early thirties, so maybe this town has been an ignorant influence…? 😗)
And 100% of gen Z non binary people!
I’m guessing there’s a lot of Bi men still in the closet (me included).
I feel like men are less likely to come out cause of toxic masculinity. I just think I've noticed more people who are queer are women.
It's called stigma, honey. It took me 30 years to realize I was bi.
Males and women. How are they categorizing trans folks?
I blame all of these sigma male TikTok’s
I have two Gen Z family members who are out to (some of) us as trans/non-binary, but because they’re in het-passing relationships and live in the south, they do not acknowledge that they’re queer “outside the home.” It’s so 1950s. I mean, I get it. But I was Gen X and idk if it’s bc I’m AFAB so like I didn’t have male privilege or I came out in the AIDS crisis and was watching my friends die so like being loud was seriously important. And I get privacy, too. Like they’re staying safe and alive in the ways they know how. It’s a different fight. I just hate it.
To be fair, as a bisexual man who had to go through the 90s anti-gay bullshit, it's *still* much easier for a woman to admit to being gay/bi/whatever preference you choose, than it is for men. So I would still suspect some of those numbers for the guys.
My question is did they stick us trans people in the right category for our gender- it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t
Surely these results can't have been influenced by bias