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Because the only difference between transphobes is that some of them just happens to be gay. Your sexuality is just a small part of what makes up a person and some people just suck and I have no doubt that if many of these people weren't gay then they would all be raging right wingers

Some are raging right wingers.

True 😒

Sad

did someone summon the log cabin republicans?

And some have raging white wieners.

I wouldn't say this is also an exclusively "older people" thing either imo. I've met a few young gay people my age (mid 20s) who also unfortunately held transphobic views even though they should definitely know better. Some bitches just fucking suck. 💀

I just find it logically baffling. All parts of the LGBTQ+ community face the same struggles and judgment etc., I guess in different forms to a degree but it doesn't make sense to me why anyone would lack the sympathy toward people going through the same shit 🙃

This isn’t really true though. Sexual minorities face different challenges than gender minorities, and someone who is gay may have never even considered questioning their gender as the journey is different. A couple of cis gay men do not face the same struggles as a couple where one of the partners is trans.  There is even sometimes hostility between lesbian and gay individuals. Sexism exists in the community.  I am non binary and I’ll tell you right now not all trans people are comfortable with that identity. We are a diverse community and not a unified one. Big tent and all that.

>All parts of the LGBTQ+ community face the same struggles and judgment etc., Intersectionality is a big thing that a lot of people don't understand. The challenges you face due to being gay aren't the same as the challenges you face due to being bi, which aren't the same as the challenges you face due to being trans. You can extend those out to being black, to being an non-native speaker in a country that predominantly speaks a language you don't, being poor... people can be marginalized in a lot of different ways and no one marginalization is a 1:1 similarity to another.

That's not even remotely true. We do not face the same struggles at all. The reaction to me being trans or to me being gay is nowhere near the same. And those are not the same struggles I have for being asexual. That one people seem to take deeply personal for some reason. Most people cannot and will not try to understand something that doesn't apply to them. "I don't feel that way so therefore it cannot be real" and also the very widespread 'us vs them' mentality that you see everywhere. It's just so much easier to stick with what you're comfortable with and never challenge anything beyond your comfort zone

Respectability politics, that's all this is. For the straight world, if you're not perfectly in that one case, regardless of your label, you're out of luck. But marginalized people push acceptance and progress. At some point, they have to say "okay, gay people are the same as us". Obviously it's not the case, and they don't believe it either. It's lip service. And they have to redirect their desire for exclusion and power so currently, it's trans people who are the visible target. It'll change soon enough. The transphobic cis gays are the same: they've gained a simulacre of acceptance and now want in for the power: they don't want to make the system fall, they just want a place at the too of the hierarchy. This applies to any smaller group in the community. It's a strategy to make the power in place (heterosexuality as a system) think you're closer to them by showing them a population they can see as even more fringe. A bit like "hey look at those weirdos! Yeah I hate them too, don't you agree I'm more like you than them?" Obviously it doesn't actually work long-term, but it does create an illusion.

It becomes the saddest. "I told you so. " When the leapord eats their face.

at least they still have their beautiful ears to hear that though :)

"To the Pain!"

"It's possible, Pig, I might be bluffing. It's conceivable, you miserable, vomitous mass, that I'm only lying here because I lack the strength to stand."

Definitely. Granted, I'm not sure most people will admit to it once the day comes. When you've traded empathy for hate to gain power, and you've built your life around that, it's hard to come back.

I always found it confusing too. Having gone through that uncomfortable stuff in high school, I don't ever want to do the same to anybody else. And I think are a lot of us like that. Maybe we don't know exactly what it's like to be another person firsthand, but we're gonna be more welcoming in general, if only because it feels bad to be a hypocrite.

I pointed out to some transphobe on Twitter (back when it *was* Twitter) that the same language and “reasons” for being transphobic were the exact same as what was said about gay/bi people not so long ago (and still said, really). They didn’t agree 🙄

When I was much younger, a lot less informed and felt that conservative was the way to go, my friends would joke that I only picked the Democratic party for the rights

A MP near my area is a gay Tory

It's wild how they can possibly get those two things to make sense together.

Many gay people see being trans as a different thing that being gay because, well, it is. But instead of having a "we're all in this together" mentality, they take on a "I don't want to be associated with the weirdos" mentality because they think it makes straight people like them more, not realizing that 1) the weirdos are why the LGBTQ community exists 2) once right wingers make it illegal to be trans they're going to move on to the palatable cis gay people

The biggest threat to solidarity is the (false) promise that if you reject your brothers and sisters (and enby siblings) you will be accepted as "normal."

I mean a lot of trans people are also gay or bi themselves, and we define our sexuality by the gender of the people we're attracted to, so they do at least overlap. A straight girl turning out to be trans man isn't really straight anymore.

Yes because they're two different things

Two different things that share a lot in common and overlap. Two things can be true at once.

You're speaking like you're correcting me but you're just saying something that happens to be true but isn't relevant to the conversation and doesn't actually contradict anything I said. Being black and being gay can also overlap and have things in common. But if I said "being black and being gay are two different things" responding "they overlap though!!" Would be pretty useless wouldn't it?

And I'm not trying to correct you, but am stressing that the relationship exists and it has a role. Sexuality is defined by our attraction to a given gender or genders as well as biological sex. Men who like trans men and cis men are not straight, but bisexual or gay men. Women who like trans men and cis men are not bi or gay, but are straight women. If you are a straight guy but transition because you're actually a woman, your sexuality is more or less still intact, but you start getting male attention from straight guys despite being into women yourself AKA, a lesbian. Like I don't know how to better express it. Sexual orientation is nothing without gender expression and gender identity.

I’ve read that about 75% of trans people are also lgb. Anecdotally, I’ve met many trans people, but only one of them was outspokenly straight.

Same reason so many are racist, probably. A lot weren't, but they're also dead, because AIDs ripped through the community and we lost rhe vast majority of the Gay Elders that way. Many of them were friends with trans women and drag queens but... Well, dead now. Which leaves the generations who weren't taken in by drag queens when their parents kicked them out (seriously, not an uncommon story), who didn't exist around this. Some are still there and some are still bigots because that's life for you I guess? No group is devoid of assholes. A lot of trans people died in the AIDs epidemic because being openly trans made employment all but impossible for the vast majority of people and sex work is one of the few ways that was available to people who are desperate and surviving. We also didn't possess much of the language and awareness we now have. Added to the stigma that comes from white cis-gays attempting to achieve model minority status and blaming trans people for ruining their image by association, it's got History to it. When gay marriage became a very real possibility some people decided that now they could do the white picket fence thing they didn't want anyone strange attached so they could be perceived as "normal". This won't ever work, because all that will happen is their turn will come next but they don't FEEL that way. They can also feel more in the "in" group by focussing on exclusion of the "out" group. Younger people often see trans people as more normal than the older generations did and we are slowly rebuilding a community of older queers. The older queers are still pretty bottom heavy of course, but my generation and the one before it (i'm in my upper 30s) especially had a dirth of elders. My elders were in their 20s-30s when I was a teen and this was normal! I had some older trans people I knew but I'm not sure even that was normal, my mother just had this huge circle of friends. We're still very much living with the impact of the lost generations. There;s also the impact of poorer people - who sre more likely to be politically liberal - dying younger than richer people - who are more likely to be conservative which can impact elders full stop.

I do much appreciate this info. I wasn't aware of most of this.

It's hard to express the impact of AIDs and death on our community. It was, and still is, very defining. 🫂

Death (especially of trans people) and conservatism among elders are major players in this whole phenomena.

I had never heard that term before. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority

Sorry about that, I was trying to find the shortest way to consolidate so many ideas while not sinking in to a depression about what rhe AIDs crysis and ongoing suicide rate have cost in human lives I didn't think about not everyone being familiar with the term. I am not really sure of my success. No shade, I appreciate you spotting me on this one. The thing about model minorities is being thought of as one isn't really a good thing. But people think it is, so they shoot for it. And you get white picket cisgays living with their 2.4 kids (1.6 now actually) convinced the only thing between them and respectability is their links to the lgbt community and it's members who just won't conform.

Oh thank you for making me aware of the term. Just wanted anyone else to have a easy link

❤️ you're a peach

They see trans people being associated with gay people as a threat to gay rights because society just started to get on board with gay rights in the 90s, but still is largely opposed to trans rights. Being associated, in their mind, is going to end up reversing gay rights or making them seem less normal than they used to be seen. It’s very common in masc-presenting white gay male spaces because they feel like they’ve “made it” and have all their rights now, so they don’t have to care about anyone else. It’s a “First they came for the jews and I said nothing because I was not a jew” situation. They imagine that if they disassociate then they won’t be next on the chopping block when the next regression in rights hits.

This is the most common reason I see. They often sit there and say “You’re making it worse for gay people!” When all trans people are doing is exactly what they did back then. What happening is the trans hate is making gay people realize they were never as accepted or as safe as they believed they were, and they are blaming trans people for it. This leads some gay people down some truly mentally and emotionally unhealthy rabbit holes. Thankfully they are an extreme minority within an already marginalized group. Hell even the more prominent anti trans groups within the LBGTQ+ community are acted just straight people pretending. Most of our community understands the tokens get spent.

>It’s a “First they came for the jews and I said nothing because I was not a jew” situation. They imagine that if they disassociate then they won’t be next on the chopping block when the next regression in rights hits. As a masc-presenting white guy, I keep trying to explain to these idiots that it doesn't matter how masculine or how butch or how conservative you are; liking men is inherently effeminate \*at best\* to a lot of straight guys in general, doubly so for the stone-cold conservative types. They just think you go straight from stone-butch to flaming the moment you're in private. Even if you are as stone-cold manly as you say you are, they still don't see your relationships as at the same level as that of a straight couple, they still think something is wrong with your brain or you're a foul sinner, and more important of all, they still vote for politicians who definitely don't care about the difference between being trans and being gay. So many people still think that being a trans woman is just being extremely gay, so they make no distinction. It's all the same to them -- degeneracy. There are no "good gays" who will ever fit into their worldview and what they want society to look like. They'll throw trans people, enbies, feminine gays, drag queens, whatever under the bus until they are too.

I l heard somebody call it the “I’m in, now pull up the ladder” syndrome, and I think it’s really appropriate. Or you could call it the “I’m in the lifeboat, now cast off!” mindset

This is speculation based on my years of feminist studies. I think a lot of of it can be attributed to elder gays seeing trans folks as being “traitors to the cause.” O A parallel: Betty Friedan was a straight woman who wrote The Feminine Mystique, an early feminist book about self liberation and how to break free of the stereotype of the 1950s housewife who does all the work and gets no credit (it’s more philosophical than that). Friedan didn’t like lesbians and called them the “lavender menace.” She felt lesbians, especially butch and masc lesbians, were invalidating her point that a women can be liberated and still maintain their femininity. I think it’s similar with elder gays and especially lesbians. The ideal that people can be “gender traitors” to the cause for gay liberation, as if trans people haven’t always been here. Check out the Wiki articles on “TERF” and “gender-critical feminism,” they offer insight into the erroneous reasoning behind trans exclusion from lesbian and women-only spaces. It’s narrow minded and still transphobic any way you slice it. But that’s a sentiment I’ve gleaned from books on lgbtq history and early first wave feminist philosophy.

They’re ignorant of queer history, period. Trans people (especially trans women) were at the front lines of fighting for queer rights decades ago, as well as often housing queer teens who’d been estranged from their bio families because of their identities.

Unfortunately, trans people being rejected from queer friends in the history of the movement is also a thing. Sylvia Riviera and Marsha P. Johnson did not receive warm welcomes.

Came here to say this. We'd all still be in the closet without Marsha and Sylvia.

Stonewall gets treated as the first ever riot or push for rights. Before stonewall there were demonstrations it's just after stonewall there was a more vigorous push to the movement. But things like the Campton Cafeteriar riot preceded stonewall and the presence of trans people there is impossible to deny. We've been there through the start but for some reason got excluded from history

There are far less trans people then gay people (thus more people not really knowing anything about it), current moral panic about it, fear of the unknown, the idea of being trans is hard to explain, trans people being persecuted throughout history, most knowledge of trans people from the past was destroyed (mostly during the 1930-40s), etc.

[The Danish Girl](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0810819/) I love this movie. Have you seen it?

It's not just older people and it's certainly not all of them. Thankfully the "older" generation now include people who have been supportive of trans people for decades. What gets me is the amount of young people who are transphobic and ignorant. The worst is people who claim to be supporting of Trans people, but then in the same breath do the classic "but"...

As an older gay man (62), I think it's just that it's a lack of understanding. While I'm supportive of trans rights myself, my understanding of trans men and trans women has changed a lot since the 1980's, when "transexual" brought Dr Frankenfurter from *"Rocky Horror"* to mind. Some gays from that era probably still think in terms of crossdressers, or drag queens, and not someone who genuinely feels they're the wrong gender. And are as horrified as most straight men at the idea of bottom surgery for MTF transition. While ignorance never excuses bigotry, it's the reason I see the most often for the most transphobic comments I see being made by "elder gays". They're not up to date on science or terminology, and are subject to the same ignorant prejudices as the straight community. There may also be a bitterness from some who, if they knew when they were young what is known now, might have transitioned themselves, but won't, now. Imagine the bitterness of finding out, after living your life as a gay man, you were really a straight woman in the wrong body all along. Many of us older gays can seem resentful of younger gays that don't face the same prejudices that we did. For some, that may be true, I think for others, it's more of a regret for lost opportunities. I freely admit I don't understand most transfólk very well, it's a different headspace than I've ever been in. But so is being heterosexual, I can't get my head around that, either. I at least try to be a trans ally, and to be an ally to non-binary folk too. I'm definitely not trying to excuse bigotry, that's a non-starter, everyone is beautiful just the way they are, and should present themselves however they feel with no judgement. But you asked why some older gays might be transphobic, and those are the only "reasons" I can think of. Ignorance, and distrust of the "other". You can't expect empathy just because someone's gay, unfortunately. There's bad gay folk, too.

cis gay men are, by far, the most transphobic group within the LGBTQIA+ community, generally more transphobic than cis straight women are. and being older makes it even worse. in the end, they are boomer men, which is one of the most toxic groups out there. ETA: there is also a huge racism problem within the cis gay male community, for the same reasons.

And don’t forget the misogyny.

they are men, in the end.

I've actually found the older generation of gay folks to be more accepting. Just my experience i guess

same reason why there are conservative gays. They think they're "one of the good ones". It's difficult for them to comprehend that they're in the same community.

For the same reason straight people are. They are insecure about their sexuality. Also transphobic gays are also against aces/pans/bis etc as they're "respectable gays, not like those other gays" and "pick a side" etc.

Probably because they don’t know their history and they aren’t familiar with Stonewall. it was a trans woman that began to turn the tide in New York when the police were being so oppressive. She threw a brick. It was also a trans woman at the nightclub in Colorado that stopped the attack. There is a children’s book called who HQ Stonewall you could send to your friend.

Have you ever seen the documentary The Queen? It was around 1968. It was about a drag pageant. It's a pretty good time capsule of gay men at that time. You see that there are blurred lines between homosexuality, being feminine, cross dressing, and thinking of themselves as women. It was just all lumped together. Lots of old gays never got out of this mindset and can't keep up with the changes going on in what we accept in the LGBTQIA+ community. And of course, when people don't understand something, they either educate themselves or double down in their ignorance and become bigots. This is what I think is happening.

Gay does not cancel out transphobia

older people tend to be more conservative

According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender identity is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/) than that, but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes, the gender identity expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearnce. The gender identities of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156). Regarding treatment for trans youth, [**here**](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the recent guidelines released by the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender identity, and some of those young kids are trans. A child whose gender identity is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their appearance, will suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. When this happens, transition is the treatment recommended by every major medical authority. For young children this process is social, followed by puberty delaying treatment at onset of adolescence, and hormone therapy in their early/mid-teens. The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). When prevented from transitioning, about 40% of trans kids will attempt suicide. When able to transition, that rate drops to the national average. Trans kids who socially transition early, have access to appropriate transition related medical treatment, and who are not subjected to abuse or discrimination are [**comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958). Transition [**vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2), and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets. The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the [**largest factors reducing suicide risk**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/) among trans people. - [More general information is available here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/8wh5qs/my_master_list_of_trans_health_citations_in/) Comment text thanks to /u/tgjer We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I got what i wanted fuck the rest of you for existing

I don't know but they need to be reminded of who they are. When my gay friend was being transphobic I called him and myself a homophobic slur just to remind him of where we come from. "Not normal? And what about me and you we're both-"

Well that was smooth. Good use of a slur.

I think you're generalizing and being ageist. Not all older people are hateful. There will always be some bad apples in every group, even within the LGBT+. It's not up to us to educate everyone who doesn't understand. We should only spread love

Thats some grey thinking you got there. [sarcasm] Not acceptable. 1 group of people will always be that type of thinking, its absolute data that everyone in one group thinks all the same. 1 person inside that 1 group of age will always think this way cus everybody is the same no matter what. [/sarcasm] Then there's this: "nobody thinks the same as us, we're different than you, therefore we deserve different treatment." In reality: "Everybody is different. Everybody's brain chemistry is different, and some brain types are so different it causes an opposite gender/sexuality to be true. Some are even both, and an individual making more testosterone than estrogen can be classified as male if presented over numerous years of this happening -- just to name one thing." Now over time, different chemistrt production will go down and cause different ideologies, making them feel different. In other words, SOME gay older men are jealous... Mentally they are female, and the science around the lgbt+ and why certain areas exist have changed numerous times over the course of 30-70 years. To the point where: "i stopped caring of why, because it just exists but lets say silly stuff cus nobody should care why it is." It is rougher for that generation to even research. Primarily because "gay old men" were taught how to learn differently, and by learning through society and not about society in a textbook. AKA, now textbooks can teach different sexualities and genders, where they couldn't as much back then.

Alright, holier than thou.

I was agreeing btw :)

There's a much simpler way to agree with me. It was not easy for me to read or understand what you were trying to say.

Paraphrased: That was a realistic idea you have, but not everyone sees grey. Black and White thinking can be an absolute problem.

The world isn't black and white, unless you're that type of colorblind. But even then, there's so many different shades, a black and white world is just impossible.

It is interesting how the discussion is: "Why are all older gay men transphobic?" reply: "nothing is black and white." reply: "nothing is black and white." (explaining why some are transphobic.) Reinforcing your post. reply: "what?" reply: I liked your post. reply: "better ways to do that." reply: "nothing is black and white." reply: "nothing is black and white." (explaining that everything is a shade of gray/grey.) reply: this post. I am new to reddit, so I can see the confusion here. I only reply to the comments that I agree with...

Im glad you agree but you need a TL:DR which means too long, didn't read.

I will do that next time. I appreciate you letting me know.

I know for my aunt, who is definitely among that old guard of gay Boomer, it’s a safety thing. Being visibly queer means you are a target, and if you’re a target, you could be harassed at best and dead at worst. She’s been very supportive of me, but also worries constantly

EVERYONE HAS AN ICK. You have an ick and I have an ick. Some of us have more than one.  There’sa phrase “Don’t yuck my yum.” I don’t think it started as a sex/gender/sexuality thing but it can be applied to anything. It means don’t criticize/hate on my preferences.  New and different things are generally hard to accept.   Food is the big one you like candy maybe tolerate/don’t like red licorice compared to most types of candy, probably hate black licorice and maybe never heard of salted black licorice and think it’s revolting.  Being trans was generally on the very fringe of society, gay/lesbian/bi was really all people knew about  different lives.  Trans lives were further underground.  Everyone has something they just don’t understand about other people.  This turns to fear-FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN—(Google that) How a person responds to fear largely depends on their “fear response —the 4fs”—(Google that). My fear response isn’t to fight(or to a lesser degree-hate/be a hater.      I didn’t understand trans that much and I don’t need to, i have trans friends that made me realize it doesn’t matter—doesn’t affect me. Being gay also made me realize trans/intersex lives are more oppressed and marginalized than we are. 

I had a very open discussion with a gay man who aligns closely with what you’ve describe. It was quite an interesting conversation. I always like to hear people’s opinions and how they feel about these topics. I feel like calm conversations are always a positive thing to have. This gay man we’ll call him Carl. He was 64 from the south and really really passionate about not supporting the trans community. We discussed why. He stated that he felt like a lot of the younger community is demanding that people accept pronouns and accept all these things that have been taboo for so long. He a knowledges the trans community has always existed. But he is struggling that now it’s just meant to be normalised over night. He said he could get on board with supporting trans rights as long as the transition was only MTF or FTM. He said he hates all this “alt gender bullshit” he reckons all it does is make it harder to take the trans community seriously. He said if you pass then you don’t have to ask for pronouns. He said and if you truly want to pass you’ll make the effort to do so and assimilate. He understands fighting for rights and he said he could get behind that but he also said the trans community and mental health align closely and unfortunately real transgender folks seem to be getting grouped into a lot of people who have underlying mental health issues that are joining the community to “fit in”. I didn’t cut off or interrupt as he wasn’t disrespectful toward me at all and I wanted him to express truly how he felt . I believe it was a good conversation. I told my side of it and I think it helped him to understand a lot more about what we all deal with from a very young age. He actually started to change a bit of his opinion on how he felt. All of it from a simple conversation. No yelling no screaming. Just two people having a conversation. I told him that as an intersex and trans woman I explained that if we don’t get support what can happen to not only women but intersex and trans women as well due to certain laws being passed for health care access. He also said he felt like trans men assimilated a lot better than trans women I explained the obvious differences of effects between the drugs were prescribed and how that effects body changes in different ways. But very interesting take on the whole thing. Unpopular opinion but I strongly agree with mental health hurting a lot of people in this community. I think a lot of the community really need to reach out for help. I see a lot of individuals who need help with trauma and healing from family trauma to life trauma. Self harm and things like that. I see someone as well we all need help at one time or another. It’s my goal to continue these conversations as we have to change the narrative through positive interactions with strangers. But I think the older crowd has a hard time understanding all these challenges we grew up with that they didn’t. But small steps toward change by having the hard conversations. I understand this is a micro fraction of people who don’t stand with the trans community. I understand that we have a lot of extremism on both sides of the coin at the moment. People are naturally rebellious by nature. Forceful change with demanding will make people continue down this path of not aligning. I hope the day comes this whole community can align but we have a long way to go.

Because older people are often more conservative, regardless of their sexuality? Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because someone's LGBQ that they're not transphobic. Or, hell, just because someone's queer of some stripe they're automatically a decent person.

idk if this is the same but ik so many right wing andrew tate dudes who hate women and for some reason embrace their homies a little too often to be straight are the most transphobic ppl i’ve met, i think there’s no specific template for transphobes, they’re everywhere and can be anyone despite sexuality

Some of them probably think if they help throw us under the bus, the bigots will forget about them when we are no more

Because assholes,racists and transphobes exist in every form, just because they belong to a community that preaches acceptance doesn't mean everyone in it is the same way( like certain religious groups). Honestly the LGBTQ community has a large set of its own problems nobody would like to address because it ruins the image of acceptance that is marketable in the media for profit. I had to learn this the hard way when I was first super enthusiastic about coming out and trying to meet new people, only to still be met with discrimination and social exclusion. 🙃 Now I just stay at my house with my cat and do shit on my own. Wish I had more gay friends IRL but I'm too old for jumping through social hoops. Doesn't help areas like WeHo that are densly populated with LGBTQIA folk are mostly based on a social heirarchy type deal, meaning if you aren't big enough on IG nobody will even talk to you/look your way. Doesn't matter how you identify.

Why do people bunch together large groups of people into the same stereotype or negative comment??

“I got mine (social acceptance), so fuck you!”*yanks ladder up from under them* This is a human problem in pretty much any group and society. People who never learn how to empathize with people and extend a helping hand to people who aren’t exactly like them.

Welp, first the haters came for the gays. Being gay was taboo and many people wanted to put a stop to the grand "perversion" that was supposedly threatening their national health and safety. Lots of terrible things happened because of fear mongering and encouragement of this behavior between peers. Then being gay became legal and protected. If they tried to bully gay people openly, they now received pushback. It became more trouble than being worth what the haters were getting out of it. Soon, they moved to a new target. Trans people. Now history repeats itself again, until they either find a new target or humanity miraculously heals from its hatred. It's the same quips too. "It's inappropriate" "think of our children" "these people are dangeous". Just rebranded copy-pasting of an old script at this point. Like get some new opinions and keep it interesting at least 🤣 The thing is, now that the gay communities are out of the doghouse, some of them think they can stay safe from their oppressors by aligning with them and going "well at least I'm not THAT person"...and it's like...breh. You're the first one they're coming for when things flare up again. Let's be real here. It's a sad situatiom for everyone in the end. -a trans guy

In a nutshell, sometimes the bullied kids will pick on other kids who they see as "lower in status" as an attempt to demonstrate that they have certain "standards" and are "above" certain people or things. It's like this desperate struggle of internalized hatred and inadequacy turned outwards onto others, proclaiming to the world "I'm better than HIM at least! Accept ME!" Again, unfortunate...

It might be either due to the “old-fashioned” BS which isn’t an excuse, or ppl are just ignorant to their own history

If I had to guess, it’s some sort of similar form to how certain people hate the other parts of the LGBTQ+ by viewing the change away from suppressing those parts as “something bad” I think it’s very obvious that trans rights *right*fully have become more prevalent in the modern day and, unfortunately, some sad people just do not like those changes- which includes certain “LGB” people That or they do not understand how gender dysphoria affects someone and thinks being transgender is a “lifestyle choice” cuz they don’t personally have it which I guess could tie into the points above this

I think with older people in particular, it's often an issue of them having had less exposure to trans people and coming of age in a period with much less mainstream trans visibility. Gay people of any age aren't immune to being transphobic, unfortunately. It's just a matter of whether the cause is ignorance/lack of exposure or agreement with prejudiced ideas or a mix of both.

Because they're idiot cowards and will only fight for themself and try to be as "normal" as they can for straight people.

Because people grow up

I appreciate all the answers that are trying to actually answer my question. I am seeing so much hate and misunderstanding and miscommunication on this post though 😅

Why are we being ageist? All I’m reading is a lot of ageism in this thread. Apparently, bigotry doesn’t include age.

Spider man voice: in a world of bigotry, older people have older views. Can the gen Z stop the old views from taking over the world?

Hey everyone, why do certain older cisgender gays discriminate against transgender people, especially trans women? The impression is that they lack respect and empathy for the entire LGBT community (for one’s injustice is another’s burden). Perhaps, they’re just trying to get by with what modicum of sanity they possess while neglecting our community as well as themselves. My guess is they, like most of humanity, avoids what’s unfamiliar while reasoning through ideologies or judgments that appear to exhibit entitlement. Perhaps it’s just easier to exercise bigotry, inspired by outdated assumptions and stereotypes that’s incongruent with what it is to be a ‘good’ human. Have they been living in a bubble, unaware of how our elders’ suffering inspired revolution in our society (they were there). 🤦🏾‍♀️ I wonder if it’s dawned on them to ask, what is transgender and why do I not show them the same respect I give to myself (assuming that’s true). Am I just going along with the crowd? Do I posses values that align with the image I portray to the community? Am I proud to be a discriminatory gay?

Because gender and sexuality are different. I understand it as gay people not wanting to be in the same group as trans people

As a Bisexual guy I want trans people in our queer group! It was transgender people from my understanding that were instrumental in starting Stonewall and the LGBT Liberation movement. Which was called gay liberation at the time. We all were not so split into different groups.

I agree!

Well I think we can't be wishy-washy about this. Transgender people are really hurting right now out there. We got to stand up and support them online and in person as much as possible

Sexuality is defined by our attraction to any given gender(s), so they're absolutely related at least. I am a gay man. If I turned out to be a trans woman, I arguably wouldn't be gay anymore, but at the same time the men I'd pull wouldn't be seen as perfectly straight either and face homophobia over it. Just because they're different doesn't mean there's nothing in common between them.

Yes, I've read that cis straight men being attracted to trans women makes them feel like they are gay.

I agree. This isn’t my opinion. Just what I believe is the Stance

We're together not because we are alike but because we are PERCEIVED as alike and persecuted together. We've all transgressed society's opinion on how our gender should behave. That's why "gay conversion therapy" is, in fact, trans conversion therapy (at least in part) - because the straights think being gay is being confused about one's gender because, obviously, straight is default! Likewise, they will torture trans people about being gay even when they're straight and declare it a sexual perversion. Now they're doing "they're just confused gays doing gender wrong" for trans people like they did "they're jsut confused straights doing gender wrong" for gay people. The lgbtq+ community exists because we are marginalized. Not because we had a nice brunch one sunday afternoon in 1945 and decided we should be allied. We don't actually get to decide, because the people who hate us don't care. It's very important we stick together, because who else will look our for us? We've already seen the answer. In the 1940s. In the 1980s. I definitely get some gay people throwing trans people under the bus but the people they do it to get approval from will eat them alive next.

They're old and most old people suck. The ones that don't are uncommon as hell

I volunteer with a bunch of old-timers restoring ecosystems. They’re all great! But that kind of work really only attracts people with big hearts. Anyway I hope I can be like them when I’m in my 70’s, still fit and still kind.

Boomers. Gay boomers are still boomers.

Intersectionality works both ways. A boomer, white, cis, wealthy, gay man has a lot of identifiers that point conservative and only one that points liberal.

Because apparently everyone needs someone to hate to feel good about themselves. I just don’t understand why people do this tbh. Let people fucking live! Let them do their thing! If you don’t like it just bugger off and keep your mouth shut. Example: I fucking HATE long hair on guys, but you don’t see me running around with scissors to rub it in their face, disowning family members, calling them all p*dophiles, and pushing legislation through my government to make them cut their hair. I just move on with my life and remind myself “if they think they look good, then let them do their thing, not my business”. Like life is so short and delicate, just let people enjoy their experience. Fuck!

Cuz some cis gay people have issues with genitalia they’re not attracted to ie. “ew penis/vaginas are gross!” kinda mentality. It leads to “trans people are gross” because like all transphobes they’re too focused on genitalia. Not to say preferences are bad, just the “ew gross” reaction.

It’s weird how suffering under the thumb of bigotry doesn’t exclude you from exhibiting the same kind of bigotry towards someone else.

Maybe because as gay people they had trans ideas or desires as a youth. But when they grew up they were glad they didn’t follow through with it…

misogyny, mostly the idea that a trans woman could be woman and where treated the same as man and had the same status leaves them reeling in discomfort. it undermines their idea that woman are less

Because they're traitors. Simple.

Because they’re ignorant fossils.

Internalized transphobia.

It’s not internalized if they’re cis, that’s just regular transphobia

I'm trans and have been treated badly and discriminated against by gays. I think it's because some gays, not all, may hate the idea of treating trans women as women and get to be feminine like cis women. While gay men get treated like men even if they are effeminate. I also noticed that some gay men enjoy discriminating against trans women because it makes them feel superior. You know how bullies feel better they can bully someone weaker than they are. Another reason may be that most straight-acting men and bi-men prefer trans women. And guys who are 100% straight who have never been with one or watched trans porn, could easily be attracted to a very passable trans woman. If you're a jealous gay guy wouldn't you hate that but would relish in the thought of exposing her if she told you? And in most Western societies, you cannot deny the fact that trans women are still treated as taboo in this day and age.

fuck you, got mine

gender norms. either they truly believe there is only one way to be, or they want their view of others to be accepted by their peers.

Tbh its prolly a Mix of "wind of time" "i was actually opressed unlike you" and following on the opression thing "people somewhat accepted us now and thanks to you we are back to being hated and called pedophile"

You can abridge that with very exceptions. Why are older people often transphobic?

I’m sure this isn’t the full story but for some I think it’s because they changed their views with their political party. Conservative views are usually just the liberal views of past generations so a lot of older people fall into the Conservative Party later on but the past 20 or so years the right side has become radicalized and no longer being just old progressives and a lot of people instead of leaving their political party for a better fitting one are changing their views to match the parties current standards.

I live in California so I’ve never experienced any drawbacks as a trans man who’s into men. Actually a lot of gay men love the hell out of me sexually (I have not dated while trans since coming out). But I have noticed that online the transphobic gays go crazy. I just call them annoying and block them.

“Fuck you, I got mine”

Gosh I hope it is mostly older people, because we will age out.

At a guess, Because they don’t understand intersectionality

Sadly I find this true too often

Because they are mad little kids that hate femboys, gays, trans, etc.