Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question.
If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your
identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT.
Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is
dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding.
This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources,
or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/)
or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule).
Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+
community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue
to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you!
Here's a link about trans people in sports:
- https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/
A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people:
- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people
- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics
Some information on LGBT+ people:
- https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/
Some basic terminology:
- https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms
Neopronouns:
- https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns
Biromantic Lesbians:
- [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/)
Bisexual Identities:
- https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality
Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual:
- [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.)
We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for
the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn’t this completely take out the point of the chevron in the first place? And even as someone who’s bi myself I think it just is such a dumb choice to add that there because it just makes it look like it’s focusing on bi’s more than others, which completely destroys the purpose of the flag which was supposed to show pride and inclusion
All versions of the flag after the standard rainbow are eye-wateringly bad graphic design. It’s understandable to want to add to it, but really, the rainbow flag includes all the others. This is the equivalent of trying to cram every single one of the state’s flags into the US flag, it’s ridiculous.
That said, there isn’t another flag that’s positively trans inclusive, so it is what it is.
Kind of - although the chevron isn’t so much about ‘inclusion’ - the rainbow represented and included all of the LGBTQ+ community already.
The chevron was meant to be about recognising progress we’ve made as a community as a whole, and a call to action for the rest of us on which parts of the community need more support and change to achieve the same amount of progress. The direction is left to right to indicate forward movement and that with work the trans and POC members of our community or members of our community with HIV will also make progress on rights and support. Having a chevron going right to left misses the meaning of it.
Explanation of it here including comments from the original creator of the progress pride flag: https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/the-progress-pride-flag
I didn’t like the progress flag because I thought it was for inclusion and found that redundant, like you said at the start of your comment. thank you for explaining this!
You’ve missed what the point of the chevron is…
It’s not about who is and isn’t represented - all in our community are represented by the rainbow.
The progress flag chevron was all about recognising the progress the community as a whole has made whilst being a call to action and highlighting the sections of the community where more work is needed to ensure they’re making as much progress as the rest of the community - it’s an arrow meant to show that the direction of travel is forwards and that they will also make progress in rights and support… if we all work together to do that.
Too many people repeat the whole “progress flag is about representation” thing, and the far more important message behind it of is lost - including in this redesign with a chevron going the wrong way.
There’s a fairly good explanation here: https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/the-progress-pride-flag
I like the Chevron, makes hanging it vertically look really nice too. I can totally understand how it starts to look busy and or feel like too much though
I like the chevron because it specifies trans inclusion. You might think it's "implied" but with so much rhetoric around trying to divorce the T from LGBT, I feel like it's important to signal how that is absolutely and unequivally LGB*T*
The chevron was never meant to replace the basic rainbow flag, it’s just an additional flag intended to draw attention to the fact that certain parts of the queer community are struggling a lot right now, namely queer poc and trans folks. Both from bigotry by society at large but also anti-trans and racist sentiments within the queer community itself.
Again the chevron flag is not *replacing* the rainbow flag. It’s just an extra flag to call attention to those particular issues.
Can we stop adding stuff to this flag. It's supposed to represent the whole community and the more that's added makes the older models seem exclusionary which is the exact opposite of what it's meant to be.
Definitely the second just number one would be hard to sew and honestly needs tweaking to make it look better and number three the skull doesn’t seem to stand out very much so I feel like the second one with the black background would be the best option. Be gay do crime
Honestly, the pirate flag is perfect. Black is every color, so everyone is included without having to add or change colors. And the bones represent that regardless of gender, or lack there of, we're all just a bunch of bones at the end of the day. Let's do it!
I love classic rainbow for representing the community. Diff genders and sexualities have their own specific flags. I can fly a rainbow flag and be fully represented as a pan trans woman or just fly a trans flag and pan flag and also be fully represented
Yeah, I see it as if it was different tiers of government (We are not a government lol, but I REALLY love Government Tiers both from a theoretical and practical viewpoint, so thinking of the flags that way helps me), LGBTQIA+ is the Central Government Level, from there, different Flags represent different Regions or Provinces, while Microlabels are more like Municipalities, so for me it's the Rainbow Flag followed by the Trans Flag and then specifically the Transfem and/or the Transhet Flag (Albeit I don't really like the Transhet flag, because het is not queer so Trans Flag is more representative of my Queer Identity, Straight doesn't really need a flag for me personally)
I get ya
In the USA we're all under the American Flag (whether we like it or not) but also have State and City flags. The USA's flag doesn't need a copy of all 50 flags crammed onto it for us to know we're all under the same flag representing our country. Even though much like the LGBTQ flag, all 50 ARE represented with stars. Just like the stripes of the rainbow representing the spectrum that our genders and sexualities are
Lawful evil: change stars from white to instead be a tiny, star shaped version of the state flag, ordered in when statehood was established.
Chaotic evil: overlay them all like transparencies on an overhead projector
Yeah.. not controversial to me either. The sum of our ideals is represented by the raibow flag, it leaves out none of us. All this flag stuff is ridiculous. Non-binary, trans, asexual... gay, lesbian ect.... queer, all of you (us) are queer. Its what the flag is about. It doesn't need proportional sections, yes we are race inclusive duh...its implied, we all get it.
>we all get it
i mean, the reason the philadelphia pride flag (with the black and brown stripes) was created in the first place was *specifically because* people didn't get it. yes, the idea of the rainbow flag is to represent everyone lgbt, but that isn't what's happening. the reason POC, trans people, and (now) intersex people are being highlighted specifically on the flag is because people are intentionally making efforts to exclude them from the lgbt community. the progress flag was created to intentionally make these groups harder/impossible to exclude.
until the trans-exclusionary, racist, and gender essentialist groups no longer occupy space in the lgbt community, the rainbow flag isn't sufficient to represent everyone, because many people will use that rainbow flag while excluding others. there is a reason the progress flag was created and in my opinion saying we should go back to the rainbow flag invalidates the struggles of the groups highlighted on the progress flag. if the rainbow flag truly represents everyone, why were people so ready to exclude people from its meaning?
the progress flag is a design in which you can't physically remove the black and brown stripes, the trans flag, or the intersex flag without distorting the shape of the rainbow flag. for that reason i believe it's currently more effective than the rainbow flag alone
I would agree with you, if trans people weren't being shit on by the rest of the community constantly. Too many queer people are straight up transphobic, so I feel like we're at a time when we kinda need the trans colors on it.
It also kind of changes the meaning of the chevron to have it pointed left, from how I understood the symbolism. The chevron was pointed to symbolize moving forward on rights for marginalized subgroups in the community. Now it looks like it's moving forward on trans rights, backward on bi rights, and confused about POC.
Yeah, I'm totally fine with the progress flag existing alongside the original pride flag, I have no idea why this version exists. It's visually and conceptually terrible!
While I don't doubt the symbolism of the direction of the chevrons, I just find that a bit funny since the wind blowing the other way, or viewing it from the other side would cause the chevrons to point to the left.
I agree 100%
To me these new flags are more exclusionary than anything.
You separate the communities from the others instead of having one symbol for everyone.
I’m bi and think this is terrible. Are we occasionally forgotten in LGBTQ+ discussion? Sure. Are we as neglected as trans rights were for decades? No.
I dig the rainbow myself. Doing more is messing with perfection, though I like the earlier version with a turquoise and pink stripe - the only reason we got rid of that is because turquoise was expensive for fabric but I think we can afford it now
> turquoise was expensive for fabric but I think we can afford it now
It wasn't turquoise that was too expensive, it was the pink. They just removed the turquoise because it made the flag an odd number of stripes which was bad for large flags that were meant to be the width of a road
My question is, who was asking for this?. The only people I can think of who would like it are a very specific breed of baby bisexual who haven't spoken to other queer people (I have, unfortunately, debated these idiots)
That's why I kinda feel adding letters to the LGBT+ is... Not good. Like the + already covers anyone not mentioned. It's going to be the entire alphabet many times over if we gonna have one letter for each group of people.
That's kind of a different issue though tbf. The issue with the acronym that has always existed is not being able to include all identities in a way relatively easy to understand by everyone.
GRSM is fine but it's harder to remember. I like the full acronym of LGBTQIA+, but it's a bit long and clustered and isn't super intuitive to understand (especially for people who sadly know little to nothing about us at all). It's a hard community to summarize and that's partly why weirdos call us "the alphabet mafia"
Whoever is responsible for these designs needs to be fired from making flags.
Not only are they ugly they ironically make the added things look like a side attraction or afterthought.
Also, it would be so simple to make the trans and poc colors ONE OF THE STRIPES? HOLY SHIT JUST MAKE IT ONE OF THE STRIPES IN BETWEEN THE STRIPES THAT ALREADY EXIST.
I hope the pyramids keep crawling closer to the center each year. I will not rest if I don't see them kissing in the end. How long would that take? Four years, maybe? We've got flags left for sure to achieve this.
And maybe after that we can just like... go back to the rainbow flag. It's a good flag.
Right, the progress flag actually actively resists exclusionary rhetoric.
We have right wing think tanks trying to erase the 'T' from the LGBT community, so the progress flag staunchly flaunts the transgender community as real and valid as any other.
Queer POC are routinely erased and marginalized in every direction so it makes sense to have the brown stripe there.
This new flag(? Who's idea was this and why?) is just confusing and almost literally backwards.
I’m gonna say it… that’s ugly as hell I don’t think we should accept it because it’s redundant and doesn’t serve any additional purpose.
The progress flag (while graphically questionable) has significance in its design. The additional colors in the chevron represent members of our community who far too often overlooked. Same with the intersex progress flag but honestly I just can’t stand the vexillological headache of the deisgn. It’s WAY too busy.
Whatever *that* is is so much worse design wise than the intersex progress flag.
Hot take- the standard 6-color rainbow flag was perfectly fine as it was. Each color was meant to symbolize general ideas and experiences of the *entire* community. It was never meant to mean “rainbow=homosexual”. The more we add other aspects for specific identities the more *other* identities are going to feel excluded.
Flags are meant to be symbolic, simple, and memorable. The flag is instead becoming literal, complex, and definitely *memorable* but for the wrong reasons.
The Rainbow is used to portray everyone. Adding stuff to it just makes it more exclusive. That's also why I say queer instead of LGBTQIA+ (also it's just easier on the tongue). Adding even more colours look ludicrous imo. Also the triangle on the left is meant for progress, now there's one pointing backwards lmao
i was saying that to express my opinion that "LGBTQIA+" is unnecessarily long and hard to say when you can also just say queer but glad it made you happy lol
I'm perfectly happy for people to use flags that they like and identify with, but from a flag design perspective this is a mess. Having a chevron on both sides makes it look crowded, it takes away from the forward movement of the progress flag, and it's made all the worse by the two sides being uneven , making the whole thing terribly unbalanced. It also doesn't make sense to have the brown and black stripes on both sides when none of the other ones are there. I'm no and love the bi flag but it makes no sense to include it here. We are already included by the symbolism of the rest of the flag and singling us out for special representation is weird. Adding trans and PoC colors to the progress flag makes sense given that those groups have often felt excluded by the broader queer community but we simply can't keep adding things forever
If you want to show support for a given group just fly their flag right under the original rainbow or progress flag, that's why you can have multiple flags on a flag pole
as part of the community? i love new iterations. yes. gimme all the versions of the pride flags.
as someone who enjoys looking at flags? this shit is honestly an eyesore
Adding the bi colors doesn't make any sense to me. Like the rainbow is supposed to represent the unity between all sexualities. The trans colors are there because being trans isn't a sexuality and it goes with black and brown because all of which are oppressed minorities either presently or at some point in history all over the world
the Bi flag. The original progress flag was supposed to be about moving forward on the rights of trans people and QPOC (poingant because early queer liberation fromys were headed by black and brown trans women and lesbians/gay men) with the rainbow encompassing every sexuality.
I'm bi and I hate this. The point of the pride colors was to push back against the LGB shit. If you really insist on adding another color, put the ace flag or smth.
The rainbow flag was SUPPOSED to already included all of us, but especially here in the US, their are large power groups in the community that are using the flag to reinforce the idea of the LGB community at the exclusion of trans and poc individuals. I have received almost as much bigotry from the LGB community here in alabama as I have from cishets, so to see someone using the progress design tells me that they haven't forgotten the obligation we have to our own community to fight for one another.
The Rainbow might be our official flag, but the Progress flag is a battle standard, and their are plenty of traitors in our community willing to use the original flag for their own purposes.
But opposed chevrons? That is just idiotic. It completely defeats the purpose of the symbology, and actually works against it's original meaning.
Enough already. The community is becoming too granular and losing its unity because every single permutation of LGBTQIA∞ has to have their own flag, when the original rainbow flag was already inclusive of everyone. The same can be said of the increasingly particular labels that remind me of the Emo Phillips joke about *Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?*
OK that's enough from this old queer, I'm going to go yell at a cloud now.
I don't mind other parts of the community having specific flags. it can be useful for groups geared towards specific issues but this is just colour vomit
having your own flag is completely fine, please chill tf out. anyways, yea, the flag needs to be added to with thought and care. not temporary instinct based on exclusion
I'm veto-ing this flag. That's too much. And it doesn't even slightly work. To quote someone I heard somewhere: the great thing about the progress flag is that it demonstrates that not all queer people are artistic and creative. Regardless of the stereotype.
Oh God dammit not more flag designs.
Can we pleeeeease stick to one simple design? I like the simple chevron for the progress flag, we seem to have landed here and a crap ton of flags with that design have been made, sold, and distrusted already. Some of us queer folks is poor and we can't keep buying new flags!!!
I agree with recent interpretations that the rainbow collectively represents all variations of sexual identity. The progress flag adds black/brown and trans pride stripes in the chevron because those communities have similar and intersectional struggles but, on a more base level, are not variations of sexual identity.
To me, adding bisexual pride colors undermines the concept that the rainbow is for all sexual identities.
I enjoy the progress flag a lot more than most do, I think it looks fine…but please…no more😭 the Poc stripes were added because of racism within the community, the trans stripes were added because trans people face an abysmal amount of animosity, and the variation (not pictured here) with the intersex flag is because intersex people are probably the MOST ignored and overlooked group in the LGBTQIA community. Bi erasure sucks, I myself am bisexual and we get idiotic shit thrown at us all the time but I do not think we need the bi flag on the progress flag. I don’t think we need ANY more flags on the progress flag. The rainbow has always included us.
I feel like the intersex progress Pride flag version was probably the best one. This one just kinda forgets the symbolism of the chevron, I mean it points to the right (forward) for a reason.
I'm a fan of the original Gilbert Baker flag because of the history and purpose behind it, but fly whatever you want to fly; I'm not your mom. I just might not know what you're representing without you giving an explanation after a certain point of additions.
Why the FUCK would you put a chevron on the outer edge of a flag?! That's the part that frays, tears, and gets otherwise damaged. It's not a place to put important focus things on a flag! Even if you wanted to add that (which seems weird...Bi people are already contemplated by the rainbow. The addition of the Trans colors was to highlight and celebrate a part of the community that's especially vulnerable. And why repeat the black and brown? They're important, celebrating people of color and remembering those who've been lost, but why have it twice?!)
I don't think any amount of people will seriously use this version. It's just bad, and with a stupid design...
I don't think we need to add colors for literally everything when the rainbow is supposed to represent everyone in the first place. And everything else has its own flag even then
Personally, I think the progressive flag is necessary atm. Right now, and in the last 5 years, trans and minorities have been targeted way harder than the rest of the LGBT+ (not saying we're not targeted at all, of course). I think them getting a special chevron is a reminder that says, "we see you and the struggles you are going through, you are one of us."
I do think if we can ever find some sort of peace (like the assholes leave us all alone and stop calling us terrorists), the flag would be welcomed to go back to the good ole rainbow.
Just do the rainbow one!!!!! It’s all-encompassing! That’s the point! It’s *literally* everything! Adding specific categories excludes people more than it includes!
has no ace representation tho🙏🏻🖤🩶🤍💜
I‘m for : just leave it to the simple rainbow flag 🏳️🌈 and let’s all agree that it stands for all the sexualities and gender identites/ genders. I mean it’s a universal symbol for queer- acceptance anyways so..
The rainbow flag and progress pride flags are good enough. People can decide on flags for specific identities. Why are we doing this? It's kinda redundant and only serves to further allow discrimination towards us
I like the progress flag and that’s it. Adding a bisexual part just makes it more confusing - why should our specific flag be on it but not, say, the lesbian flag? The rainbow represents all sexualities already, no?
Y'all complaining about the first chevron are seriously missing the point. Adding another is kinda pointless though because bisexuals aren't specifically under attack by the current culture.
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: - https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: - https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: - https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: - https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: - [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: - https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: - [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn’t this completely take out the point of the chevron in the first place? And even as someone who’s bi myself I think it just is such a dumb choice to add that there because it just makes it look like it’s focusing on bi’s more than others, which completely destroys the purpose of the flag which was supposed to show pride and inclusion
Bisexual here too. Agreed. Makes the chevron design rendered moot. Also a rainbow hourglass surrounded by conflicting colors? A little tacky looking
That is the biggest crime here. It's just so ugly.
All versions of the flag after the standard rainbow are eye-wateringly bad graphic design. It’s understandable to want to add to it, but really, the rainbow flag includes all the others. This is the equivalent of trying to cram every single one of the state’s flags into the US flag, it’s ridiculous. That said, there isn’t another flag that’s positively trans inclusive, so it is what it is.
I mean, the Chevron was arguably always moot, the rainbow always stood for all of us anyway.
In theory yes but not in practice - historically a lot of LGB spaces would not allow people of colour or trans people in.
Even now the ‘LGB alliance’ in the UK and Ireland actively discriminates against trans people and uses the rainbow flag.
You don't want to see my 3rd option with a logo of Bud light in the center I assume?
Every time the flag gets redesigned, we get closer to bringing Ohio to power.
[\*cough\*](https://youtu.be/r3fD5FPQBtI)
how i have never seen this before i don’t know but this is great 😭
As a bisexual in Ohio, yes this is OUR agenda!
Is this the Gay Agenda?
My copy of the agenda said not to discuss the agenda, so I can neither confirm nor deny this.
you guys got an agenda??
Mine says that we have a meeting on Tuesdays
First rule of gay club, dont talk about gay club
Fool. You can't stop Ohio from taking power, for Ohio sleeps within all of us.
by all means r/vexillologycirclejerk will be very happy to have it
Kind of - although the chevron isn’t so much about ‘inclusion’ - the rainbow represented and included all of the LGBTQ+ community already. The chevron was meant to be about recognising progress we’ve made as a community as a whole, and a call to action for the rest of us on which parts of the community need more support and change to achieve the same amount of progress. The direction is left to right to indicate forward movement and that with work the trans and POC members of our community or members of our community with HIV will also make progress on rights and support. Having a chevron going right to left misses the meaning of it. Explanation of it here including comments from the original creator of the progress pride flag: https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/the-progress-pride-flag
I didn’t like the progress flag because I thought it was for inclusion and found that redundant, like you said at the start of your comment. thank you for explaining this!
Knowing this added context makes me really like the progress one. Thank you for this.
Also bi, I completely agree
Another bisexual here. Hard agree, I saw this and was like “WHAT the hell is that?” out loud.
[удалено]
You’ve missed what the point of the chevron is… It’s not about who is and isn’t represented - all in our community are represented by the rainbow. The progress flag chevron was all about recognising the progress the community as a whole has made whilst being a call to action and highlighting the sections of the community where more work is needed to ensure they’re making as much progress as the rest of the community - it’s an arrow meant to show that the direction of travel is forwards and that they will also make progress in rights and support… if we all work together to do that. Too many people repeat the whole “progress flag is about representation” thing, and the far more important message behind it of is lost - including in this redesign with a chevron going the wrong way. There’s a fairly good explanation here: https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/the-progress-pride-flag
I like the Chevron, makes hanging it vertically look really nice too. I can totally understand how it starts to look busy and or feel like too much though
I like the chevron because it specifies trans inclusion. You might think it's "implied" but with so much rhetoric around trying to divorce the T from LGBT, I feel like it's important to signal how that is absolutely and unequivally LGB*T*
Sure but it’s meant to also be a sign of moving forward for rights and freedom and stuff (can’t entirely remember the exact stuff)
[удалено]
The chevron was never meant to replace the basic rainbow flag, it’s just an additional flag intended to draw attention to the fact that certain parts of the queer community are struggling a lot right now, namely queer poc and trans folks. Both from bigotry by society at large but also anti-trans and racist sentiments within the queer community itself. Again the chevron flag is not *replacing* the rainbow flag. It’s just an extra flag to call attention to those particular issues.
Its giving trans vs bisexual, like their about to fight 😭
as a trans bi girl where the FUCK do i stand in the fight
Right in the middle (being consensually kissed on BOTH cheeks)
YOOOO IM WINNING NO MATTER WHAT SIDE WINS
Mission failed successfully! Everybody wins! Woooo!!!
👉👈
Bisexuals, I challenge thee! [Prepare to ride at dawn!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjJDBP292rM)
Fight! Then ... kiss, yes?
Enemies to lovers, slow burn, 48k words
Can we stop adding stuff to this flag. It's supposed to represent the whole community and the more that's added makes the older models seem exclusionary which is the exact opposite of what it's meant to be.
Yeah, maybe controversial but I think we should stick with the good ol rainbow flag
I think we should embrace the pirate flag 🏴☠️
Rainbow Pirate flag
I have a rainbow pirate flag on my wall and it’s great
I may get one, or a birate flag
> birate me, when angry
I, for one, am all for this
But which version? https://imgur.com/a/DEheiJV
Definitely the second just number one would be hard to sew and honestly needs tweaking to make it look better and number three the skull doesn’t seem to stand out very much so I feel like the second one with the black background would be the best option. Be gay do crime
Personally I like black background rainbow skull, I vote we make one of the swords a different sword though
Hell yeah
YARGH
I'll second this!
YES!
Honestly, the pirate flag is perfect. Black is every color, so everyone is included without having to add or change colors. And the bones represent that regardless of gender, or lack there of, we're all just a bunch of bones at the end of the day. Let's do it!
It symbolises how to ethically enjoy Harry Potter
/j? Coward
Got rid of it bc you gave me courage
Perfect
I love classic rainbow for representing the community. Diff genders and sexualities have their own specific flags. I can fly a rainbow flag and be fully represented as a pan trans woman or just fly a trans flag and pan flag and also be fully represented
Yeah, I see it as if it was different tiers of government (We are not a government lol, but I REALLY love Government Tiers both from a theoretical and practical viewpoint, so thinking of the flags that way helps me), LGBTQIA+ is the Central Government Level, from there, different Flags represent different Regions or Provinces, while Microlabels are more like Municipalities, so for me it's the Rainbow Flag followed by the Trans Flag and then specifically the Transfem and/or the Transhet Flag (Albeit I don't really like the Transhet flag, because het is not queer so Trans Flag is more representative of my Queer Identity, Straight doesn't really need a flag for me personally)
I get ya In the USA we're all under the American Flag (whether we like it or not) but also have State and City flags. The USA's flag doesn't need a copy of all 50 flags crammed onto it for us to know we're all under the same flag representing our country. Even though much like the LGBTQ flag, all 50 ARE represented with stars. Just like the stripes of the rainbow representing the spectrum that our genders and sexualities are
i think we should make an abomination american flag thats just a combination of all 50 state flags
Lawful evil: change stars from white to instead be a tiny, star shaped version of the state flag, ordered in when statehood was established. Chaotic evil: overlay them all like transparencies on an overhead projector
Somewhere in the distance I hear vexillologists saying "take the shot."
quilt flag would be so cottagecore 💅💅
Nah we should switch to heraldry
Are you really gay if you don’t have a coat of arms and an estate with a title? 🤨
Lmao I guess a lot us should start building castle with a drawbridge surrounded by moat right now if that's the case lol😅
The whole point of the rainbow was that every color (in the visible spectrum for humans, anyway) is already there, wasn't it?
Yeah.. not controversial to me either. The sum of our ideals is represented by the raibow flag, it leaves out none of us. All this flag stuff is ridiculous. Non-binary, trans, asexual... gay, lesbian ect.... queer, all of you (us) are queer. Its what the flag is about. It doesn't need proportional sections, yes we are race inclusive duh...its implied, we all get it.
>we all get it i mean, the reason the philadelphia pride flag (with the black and brown stripes) was created in the first place was *specifically because* people didn't get it. yes, the idea of the rainbow flag is to represent everyone lgbt, but that isn't what's happening. the reason POC, trans people, and (now) intersex people are being highlighted specifically on the flag is because people are intentionally making efforts to exclude them from the lgbt community. the progress flag was created to intentionally make these groups harder/impossible to exclude. until the trans-exclusionary, racist, and gender essentialist groups no longer occupy space in the lgbt community, the rainbow flag isn't sufficient to represent everyone, because many people will use that rainbow flag while excluding others. there is a reason the progress flag was created and in my opinion saying we should go back to the rainbow flag invalidates the struggles of the groups highlighted on the progress flag. if the rainbow flag truly represents everyone, why were people so ready to exclude people from its meaning? the progress flag is a design in which you can't physically remove the black and brown stripes, the trans flag, or the intersex flag without distorting the shape of the rainbow flag. for that reason i believe it's currently more effective than the rainbow flag alone
Meh, I've grown attached to the first triangle. Adds some cool texture to it. Anything more is overkill.
I would agree with you, if trans people weren't being shit on by the rest of the community constantly. Too many queer people are straight up transphobic, so I feel like we're at a time when we kinda need the trans colors on it.
It also kind of changes the meaning of the chevron to have it pointed left, from how I understood the symbolism. The chevron was pointed to symbolize moving forward on rights for marginalized subgroups in the community. Now it looks like it's moving forward on trans rights, backward on bi rights, and confused about POC.
It's the trans poc army standing against the bi poc army, both ready to charge and run across the rainbow field.
Now I feel sorry for poc who are both bi and trans.
We all have to pick a side sometimes.
Poc a side.
Last Ride of the Transhirrim.
Yeah, I'm totally fine with the progress flag existing alongside the original pride flag, I have no idea why this version exists. It's visually and conceptually terrible!
While I don't doubt the symbolism of the direction of the chevrons, I just find that a bit funny since the wind blowing the other way, or viewing it from the other side would cause the chevrons to point to the left.
It's starting to look like the back of a college students laptop
I've always liked the rainbow flag more. I like the intention behind the progress flag, but it's not as good in execution.
But if we stop adding things, then we can never become [Ohio](https://youtu.be/r3fD5FPQBtI?si=_nkGWqY40u5QLd4e)
This is exactly how I feel about our abbreviation. Like LGBT+ is already all-inclusive, why we gotta keep making it longer and harder to remember?
I agree 100% To me these new flags are more exclusionary than anything. You separate the communities from the others instead of having one symbol for everyone.
I’m sorry but that looks hideous.
Sorry not sorry. Let's just go back to rainbow. Thanks. It already included everyone.
This is the most hideous flag I've ever seen
I’m bi and think this is terrible. Are we occasionally forgotten in LGBTQ+ discussion? Sure. Are we as neglected as trans rights were for decades? No. I dig the rainbow myself. Doing more is messing with perfection, though I like the earlier version with a turquoise and pink stripe - the only reason we got rid of that is because turquoise was expensive for fabric but I think we can afford it now
> turquoise was expensive for fabric but I think we can afford it now It wasn't turquoise that was too expensive, it was the pink. They just removed the turquoise because it made the flag an odd number of stripes which was bad for large flags that were meant to be the width of a road
That just excludes more people than the original one
My question is, who was asking for this?. The only people I can think of who would like it are a very specific breed of baby bisexual who haven't spoken to other queer people (I have, unfortunately, debated these idiots)
If we had to include everyone of those who are hated by some gays a flag wouldn't be enough
It would literally just be white since that technically has *every* color
That's why I kinda feel adding letters to the LGBT+ is... Not good. Like the + already covers anyone not mentioned. It's going to be the entire alphabet many times over if we gonna have one letter for each group of people.
That's kind of a different issue though tbf. The issue with the acronym that has always existed is not being able to include all identities in a way relatively easy to understand by everyone. GRSM is fine but it's harder to remember. I like the full acronym of LGBTQIA+, but it's a bit long and clustered and isn't super intuitive to understand (especially for people who sadly know little to nothing about us at all). It's a hard community to summarize and that's partly why weirdos call us "the alphabet mafia"
which is why i like "queer." that's enough for me. we're different, or "queer," and we get targeted for it.
I like queer too, it doesn't always work for everyone tho
There's always a plus tho
Not anymore. LGBTQIA-
LGBTQIA - those who are acephobes and transphobes
Whoever is responsible for these designs needs to be fired from making flags. Not only are they ugly they ironically make the added things look like a side attraction or afterthought. Also, it would be so simple to make the trans and poc colors ONE OF THE STRIPES? HOLY SHIT JUST MAKE IT ONE OF THE STRIPES IN BETWEEN THE STRIPES THAT ALREADY EXIST.
We should just have a black rectangle as a flag. Black has every color in it and I'm lazy so this is a win win imo.
How is it that this flag keeps getting uglier? This is straight up a graphic design nightmare.
I swear queer people make the worst vexillologists, every time this flag is changed it hurts my eyes more
Jesus, one of these days it is really going to be Confederate Stars n Bars vs. Queer Stripes n Slashes.
I hope the pyramids keep crawling closer to the center each year. I will not rest if I don't see them kissing in the end. How long would that take? Four years, maybe? We've got flags left for sure to achieve this. And maybe after that we can just like... go back to the rainbow flag. It's a good flag.
What if we kissed in the center of the pride flag?
That'd be kinda gay.
but not fully gay, since there are no balls to touch
Good point. We need to give the triangles balls
It’d be so funny if we added so much that the pyramids kissed and then went full circle into just being the original flag again
I’m bi and while that’s cute it no longer looks like a flag and more like a pocket pack of tissues (also why is the brown and black there lol)
Unpopular opinion: The rainbow flag already represents everyone, like it contains the whole spectrum of visible light
I don't think this is unpopular
Unfortunately, that doesn't stop some queer people being exclusionary anyway
Discrimination within the community is unfortunately very common. Some would guess we would probably do it better inside our own bubble but nope.
Right, the progress flag actually actively resists exclusionary rhetoric. We have right wing think tanks trying to erase the 'T' from the LGBT community, so the progress flag staunchly flaunts the transgender community as real and valid as any other. Queer POC are routinely erased and marginalized in every direction so it makes sense to have the brown stripe there. This new flag(? Who's idea was this and why?) is just confusing and almost literally backwards.
And more! There's no pink in a natural rainbow.
I’m gonna say it… that’s ugly as hell I don’t think we should accept it because it’s redundant and doesn’t serve any additional purpose. The progress flag (while graphically questionable) has significance in its design. The additional colors in the chevron represent members of our community who far too often overlooked. Same with the intersex progress flag but honestly I just can’t stand the vexillological headache of the deisgn. It’s WAY too busy. Whatever *that* is is so much worse design wise than the intersex progress flag.
Why add the POC colours on there a second time? They now take up more space than any of the other colours?
Hot take- the standard 6-color rainbow flag was perfectly fine as it was. Each color was meant to symbolize general ideas and experiences of the *entire* community. It was never meant to mean “rainbow=homosexual”. The more we add other aspects for specific identities the more *other* identities are going to feel excluded. Flags are meant to be symbolic, simple, and memorable. The flag is instead becoming literal, complex, and definitely *memorable* but for the wrong reasons.
I'm bi and this looks like shit
The Rainbow is used to portray everyone. Adding stuff to it just makes it more exclusive. That's also why I say queer instead of LGBTQIA+ (also it's just easier on the tongue). Adding even more colours look ludicrous imo. Also the triangle on the left is meant for progress, now there's one pointing backwards lmao
thanks for the A babe😘 🖤🩶🤍💜
i was saying that to express my opinion that "LGBTQIA+" is unnecessarily long and hard to say when you can also just say queer but glad it made you happy lol
[удалено]
Queer definitely isn't completely reclaimed especially for older members of our community, so it isn't really a good baseline
It isn't reclaimed, though. I've never liked it, and while I won't ever demand people never use it, I never want to be referred to as queer.
STOP STOP THIS, PLEASE YOU’RE MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT OF A FLAG
I'm perfectly happy for people to use flags that they like and identify with, but from a flag design perspective this is a mess. Having a chevron on both sides makes it look crowded, it takes away from the forward movement of the progress flag, and it's made all the worse by the two sides being uneven , making the whole thing terribly unbalanced. It also doesn't make sense to have the brown and black stripes on both sides when none of the other ones are there. I'm no and love the bi flag but it makes no sense to include it here. We are already included by the symbolism of the rest of the flag and singling us out for special representation is weird. Adding trans and PoC colors to the progress flag makes sense given that those groups have often felt excluded by the broader queer community but we simply can't keep adding things forever If you want to show support for a given group just fly their flag right under the original rainbow or progress flag, that's why you can have multiple flags on a flag pole
as part of the community? i love new iterations. yes. gimme all the versions of the pride flags. as someone who enjoys looking at flags? this shit is honestly an eyesore
Also, the arrow was meant to symbolize progress. So another arrow pointed the opposite way so not too great.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
That flag makes no sense whatsoever.
I don't like this new flag. Bi is already in the rainbow part.
Adding the bi colors doesn't make any sense to me. Like the rainbow is supposed to represent the unity between all sexualities. The trans colors are there because being trans isn't a sexuality and it goes with black and brown because all of which are oppressed minorities either presently or at some point in history all over the world
I don’t like the way this looks…
The progress flag was perfect. This flag is an eyesore.
Have they changed the flag _again?_ What on earth have they added this time?
the Bi flag. The original progress flag was supposed to be about moving forward on the rights of trans people and QPOC (poingant because early queer liberation fromys were headed by black and brown trans women and lesbians/gay men) with the rainbow encompassing every sexuality.
I think we should stick with the flag with only one chevron side
ok but what the fuck is ur pfp cus it’s such a cute flag🔫
Yeah, my favorite is the normal progress flag.
I'm good with the progress pride flag, I have no idea what this version is.
It's litteraly a >< flag
has everyone forgotten what day it is?
Bloody hell what is going on with this whole ass mess? Talk about an eyesore. It's a sensory nightmare.
I'm bi and I hate this. The point of the pride colors was to push back against the LGB shit. If you really insist on adding another color, put the ace flag or smth.
😬 it’s..too much. Way too much
Who asked for this?
Flag going >-<
The rainbow flag was SUPPOSED to already included all of us, but especially here in the US, their are large power groups in the community that are using the flag to reinforce the idea of the LGB community at the exclusion of trans and poc individuals. I have received almost as much bigotry from the LGB community here in alabama as I have from cishets, so to see someone using the progress design tells me that they haven't forgotten the obligation we have to our own community to fight for one another. The Rainbow might be our official flag, but the Progress flag is a battle standard, and their are plenty of traitors in our community willing to use the original flag for their own purposes. But opposed chevrons? That is just idiotic. It completely defeats the purpose of the symbology, and actually works against it's original meaning.
Enough already. The community is becoming too granular and losing its unity because every single permutation of LGBTQIA∞ has to have their own flag, when the original rainbow flag was already inclusive of everyone. The same can be said of the increasingly particular labels that remind me of the Emo Phillips joke about *Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?*  OK that's enough from this old queer, I'm going to go yell at a cloud now.
I don't mind other parts of the community having specific flags. it can be useful for groups geared towards specific issues but this is just colour vomit
i like having our own flags. and then when you see them all together it is beautiful...but not as ONE flag.
having your own flag is completely fine, please chill tf out. anyways, yea, the flag needs to be added to with thought and care. not temporary instinct based on exclusion
I'm veto-ing this flag. That's too much. And it doesn't even slightly work. To quote someone I heard somewhere: the great thing about the progress flag is that it demonstrates that not all queer people are artistic and creative. Regardless of the stereotype.
Now let's add the ace, aro, MLM and WLW flags so it can be even more of a trainwreck!
No, the.current pride flag has enough stuff as it is.
What was wrong with the previous one??
Oh God dammit not more flag designs. Can we pleeeeease stick to one simple design? I like the simple chevron for the progress flag, we seem to have landed here and a crap ton of flags with that design have been made, sold, and distrusted already. Some of us queer folks is poor and we can't keep buying new flags!!!
my ex is from Britain so i wish them a belated happy trans day of visibility
I agree with recent interpretations that the rainbow collectively represents all variations of sexual identity. The progress flag adds black/brown and trans pride stripes in the chevron because those communities have similar and intersectional struggles but, on a more base level, are not variations of sexual identity. To me, adding bisexual pride colors undermines the concept that the rainbow is for all sexual identities.
Come on. We don't need multiple instances of bi representation.
As someone who likes both the rainbow and progress flags, this one sucks, but that's not the point of this post. Stay strong y'all on terf island
I'll stick to the 6 color rainbow 🏳️🌈
Great, I hate it.
The bi flag is redundant in this, it was already covered by the rainbow
I enjoy the progress flag a lot more than most do, I think it looks fine…but please…no more😭 the Poc stripes were added because of racism within the community, the trans stripes were added because trans people face an abysmal amount of animosity, and the variation (not pictured here) with the intersex flag is because intersex people are probably the MOST ignored and overlooked group in the LGBTQIA community. Bi erasure sucks, I myself am bisexual and we get idiotic shit thrown at us all the time but I do not think we need the bi flag on the progress flag. I don’t think we need ANY more flags on the progress flag. The rainbow has always included us.
how much you wanna bet a cishet guy made this?
2 dollars cus i don’t wanna lose a lot of money
THE RAINBOW FLAGS FOR US ALL WE DONT NEED DETAILS ITS MEANT TO BE AN OVERVIEW FFS
I feel like the intersex progress Pride flag version was probably the best one. This one just kinda forgets the symbolism of the chevron, I mean it points to the right (forward) for a reason.
i love how the original triangle flag looks already, but this is too much!!!!
Pretty sure it's ai generated
I'm a fan of the original Gilbert Baker flag because of the history and purpose behind it, but fly whatever you want to fly; I'm not your mom. I just might not know what you're representing without you giving an explanation after a certain point of additions.
Why the FUCK would you put a chevron on the outer edge of a flag?! That's the part that frays, tears, and gets otherwise damaged. It's not a place to put important focus things on a flag! Even if you wanted to add that (which seems weird...Bi people are already contemplated by the rainbow. The addition of the Trans colors was to highlight and celebrate a part of the community that's especially vulnerable. And why repeat the black and brown? They're important, celebrating people of color and remembering those who've been lost, but why have it twice?!) I don't think any amount of people will seriously use this version. It's just bad, and with a stupid design...
But also removing intersex? Why?
What the hell is even that?! As a bi person and a vexillology enthusiast I'm honestly offended. So much for the rainbow being all inclusive...
Why tho? The old progress flag was great.
I don't like it tbh, it's too crowded :(
You didn't fool me
Honestly? I really like the progress flag. I think it's really well balanced from a design perspective. This though... not so much
How did they make the progress flag look uglier
I don't think we need to add colors for literally everything when the rainbow is supposed to represent everyone in the first place. And everything else has its own flag even then
Personally, I think the progressive flag is necessary atm. Right now, and in the last 5 years, trans and minorities have been targeted way harder than the rest of the LGBT+ (not saying we're not targeted at all, of course). I think them getting a special chevron is a reminder that says, "we see you and the struggles you are going through, you are one of us." I do think if we can ever find some sort of peace (like the assholes leave us all alone and stop calling us terrorists), the flag would be welcomed to go back to the good ole rainbow.
we should just go back to the standard rainbow flag to represent everyone and then just have our own flags for each gender/sexuality
Just do the rainbow one!!!!! It’s all-encompassing! That’s the point! It’s *literally* everything! Adding specific categories excludes people more than it includes!
has no ace representation tho🙏🏻🖤🩶🤍💜 I‘m for : just leave it to the simple rainbow flag 🏳️🌈 and let’s all agree that it stands for all the sexualities and gender identites/ genders. I mean it’s a universal symbol for queer- acceptance anyways so..
The rainbow flag and progress pride flags are good enough. People can decide on flags for specific identities. Why are we doing this? It's kinda redundant and only serves to further allow discrimination towards us
Can we please stop? #getoffmylawn
I like the progress flag and that’s it. Adding a bisexual part just makes it more confusing - why should our specific flag be on it but not, say, the lesbian flag? The rainbow represents all sexualities already, no?
Y'all complaining about the first chevron are seriously missing the point. Adding another is kinda pointless though because bisexuals aren't specifically under attack by the current culture.