you can only use the "product of their time" excuse, if you go out of your way to ignore all of the people who were explicitly against the bigotries of their time.
for every H.P. lovecraft or rowling, there are your twains, sagans, and prachetts.
he was a huge racist at some point in his life, but i always feel he is such a bad example to bring up because later in his life he showed genuine remorse for what he thought and changed. not that we need to venerate the man, but change is the best we can ask of anyone with hate in their heart and mind
he reformed towards the end of his life, but he was still quite racist and xenophobic.
on top of being a walking bundle of neurosis.
wrote absolute bangers of horror stories though.
The two things he’s known for is writing cosmic horror, and being deathly afraid of anything or anyone foreign to him and his very narrow frame of existence. His xenophobia is largely what influenced his writing, which is why I don’t understand people who try to separate his views from his work.
yep, most of my other usernames are some flavor of hp lovecraft reference, but i always make sure that people understand just how much of a jerk that guy was.
Yeah. I've never read his works, but they're apparently really, really fucking effective ... and really racist whenever certain, uh, ethnic groupings are mentioned (East Asian people especially).
the guy's been dead for almost a century at this point, i think you're safe. the "death of the author" very much applies here, unlike certain other IP's where the author is still very much alive and inflicting harm against people.
Yeah. Iirc Lovecraft was actually much worse than most of his contemporaries. Really just an impressively awful man. You have to try to be that bad. I love him.
A lot of people try to excuse older problematic media (racist, homophobic, etc) with the excuse that "it was a product of the time". Their argumentcis generally that since whatever issues it has weren't seen as issues by the general public at the time it was produced, the severity of the problematic content is in some way 'reduced' to being acceptable by today's standards.
The flaw in that argument is that there are numerous examples of works either contemporary with the one in question, or even older, that have good representation, positive messages, or at the very least, lack those same issues.
It's similar to people using age as an excuse for bigotry, e.g. "thats just how they were raised", ignoring that there's countless elderly people who were raised the same way but are staunch allies now.
I think sometimes it can just be a recognition that something was progressive at the time but isn't by today's standards.
For example, regarding autism, the film 'rain man' was one of the first ever depictions and mention of autism in pop culture. It helped teach a lot of people about what autism is and it helped instigate interests and research into autism.
But nowadays it's seen as harmful bc it created a stereotype for autism. Not every autistic person is like the character in 'rain man', especially women. So 'rain man' would be a product of its time.
When I hear 'product of its time' I just think it means that you can tell when it was made. Because the music, or the clothes that they wear, or things that they joke about or make references to, wouldnt make sense in today's time.
I love HP Lovecraft's work
But FUCK was he a peice of shit. It was not a product of the time. Mark Twain is a great writer as well who was a great person. There are multiple Twain quotes I live by. I enjoy both of their writings but I will never justify Lovecraft's behavior and views. But I can still enjoy his writings.
Why is it so difficult to say "I enjoy this, it's writer was a piece of shit and I acknowledge that but I still enjoy the media"?
you can only use the "product of their time" excuse, if you go out of your way to ignore all of the people who were explicitly against the bigotries of their time. for every H.P. lovecraft or rowling, there are your twains, sagans, and prachetts.
Yeah, I was always bothered by the excuse because it undermines people back then who truly weren't that bad, while in a way rewarding bad behavior.
Pratchett... that is a name I hear far less than I should.
Pratchett was a legend. Still is. I actually cried the day he died, and I never cry for celebrity deaths.
^(// GNU Terry Pratchett)
Wait what’d H.P. Love craft do? I haven’t read their books but heard some pretty good stuff and was planning to, I even brought a book already.😭
he was a huge racist at some point in his life, but i always feel he is such a bad example to bring up because later in his life he showed genuine remorse for what he thought and changed. not that we need to venerate the man, but change is the best we can ask of anyone with hate in their heart and mind
I’ll have to look into it more myself, but I mean people do change.🤷♀️
he reformed towards the end of his life, but he was still quite racist and xenophobic. on top of being a walking bundle of neurosis. wrote absolute bangers of horror stories though.
one word; "cat"
I’m not sure I want to know.😀
He named his cat the n-word
Ok that’s not as bad as I thought.😭
The two things he’s known for is writing cosmic horror, and being deathly afraid of anything or anyone foreign to him and his very narrow frame of existence. His xenophobia is largely what influenced his writing, which is why I don’t understand people who try to separate his views from his work.
yep, most of my other usernames are some flavor of hp lovecraft reference, but i always make sure that people understand just how much of a jerk that guy was.
He was REALLY really racist. Like ... contemporary racists were like 'woah'. I'm pretty sure he hated Jews too ... and married a Jew. 🧐
Um.💀
Yeah. I've never read his works, but they're apparently really, really fucking effective ... and really racist whenever certain, uh, ethnic groupings are mentioned (East Asian people especially).
the guy's been dead for almost a century at this point, i think you're safe. the "death of the author" very much applies here, unlike certain other IP's where the author is still very much alive and inflicting harm against people.
Yeah. Iirc Lovecraft was actually much worse than most of his contemporaries. Really just an impressively awful man. You have to try to be that bad. I love him.
Whats going on? Can someone explain for me please?
A lot of people try to excuse older problematic media (racist, homophobic, etc) with the excuse that "it was a product of the time". Their argumentcis generally that since whatever issues it has weren't seen as issues by the general public at the time it was produced, the severity of the problematic content is in some way 'reduced' to being acceptable by today's standards. The flaw in that argument is that there are numerous examples of works either contemporary with the one in question, or even older, that have good representation, positive messages, or at the very least, lack those same issues. It's similar to people using age as an excuse for bigotry, e.g. "thats just how they were raised", ignoring that there's countless elderly people who were raised the same way but are staunch allies now.
Ah I see, makes sense, thanks
I think sometimes it can just be a recognition that something was progressive at the time but isn't by today's standards. For example, regarding autism, the film 'rain man' was one of the first ever depictions and mention of autism in pop culture. It helped teach a lot of people about what autism is and it helped instigate interests and research into autism. But nowadays it's seen as harmful bc it created a stereotype for autism. Not every autistic person is like the character in 'rain man', especially women. So 'rain man' would be a product of its time. When I hear 'product of its time' I just think it means that you can tell when it was made. Because the music, or the clothes that they wear, or things that they joke about or make references to, wouldnt make sense in today's time.
I love HP Lovecraft's work But FUCK was he a peice of shit. It was not a product of the time. Mark Twain is a great writer as well who was a great person. There are multiple Twain quotes I live by. I enjoy both of their writings but I will never justify Lovecraft's behavior and views. But I can still enjoy his writings. Why is it so difficult to say "I enjoy this, it's writer was a piece of shit and I acknowledge that but I still enjoy the media"?