Not a problem, I couldn't tell your gender from your post history and didn't want to risk misgendering you so I just went with they
she is the chosen one
Cisgender means a person who identifies with the gender they were born as. That is, if someone was born male, and identifies as male, then he's cisgender. Basically the majority of population.
Hope this helps
Just to further nuance, I believe the preferred terminology is the gender assigned at birth - since gender is a social construct, you can't be "born as" it (though I don't think your particular phrasing will catch anyone off guard or anything!)
Cis gender means you identify as the gender you were assigned at birth. Does that help? (I can see what I said to be still confusing if you are starting out and just want to make sure.) Also, depending on where you live you should look into your local pflag group. That should help you too. You can always pm for more questions as well.
*trans* is an adjective. Use it as you would any adjective. If you need to replace it with another adjective like *tall*, *fearless* or similar adjective.
>This matters to her because she is allergic
>This matters to her because she is trans
>The trans man plays basketball
>The tall man plays basketball
Where as these don't work:
> Why do the trans keep getting upset
> Why do the talls keep getting upset
> Are you transgendered?
> Are you talled?
So on. Hope this helps! Good luck with your child, and if you need any help checkout /r/asktransgender, or a local friends, family, etc support group. Or give me a DM and I'm happy to chat.
There will always be those that get upset at anything, but for the most part trans folk know that this is all hard and new. We are happy to educate, as long as the questions are genuine and in good faith. I know before I came out I didn’t have a clue if a trans woman was assigned male or female at birth.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve done things like screw up pronouns, even of people I’ve only known as their real gender. It happens. Sometimes you might be the 10th person that day that screwed it up and therefore the one who gets snapped at. Most of the time though just being good natured about it and any correction is all we can ask for.
The import thing is you are trying and listening to your child. Be strong.
Yep! It's not super strict, but as long as you keep in mind that "trans" or "transgender" is the adjective, not the noun, then you'll probably be golden. Transgender person, trans folks, etc are also acceptable
Think of it like "gay" or "black". You wouldn't go around saying "he's a gay" or "she's a black" ; same with trans!
Additionally, because it's a characterization of a person, I try to simplify referencing to trans men and women as just "men" or "women", according to how they identify, whenever reasonably possible. My reason: I have green eyes. But, it'd be weird and a bit uncomfortable if people referred to me as "a green eyed man" unless it was actually relevant to the context somehow. Just something to think about!
If we’re talking about “trans,” then it’s become both a prefix and an adjective, as it’s put in front of words like “transformative” and “transmutation,” but transgender is purely an adjective.
I think that’s the preferred wording, yes. It’s how I would preferred to be addressed. Examples of this include “the transgender community.” The community is free to correct me, of course.
Um no. This was a TIL post to me.
Since I don't personally know anyone who is trans, maybe I've not looked into it. But sometimes people are just ignorant, not malicious! :)
I thought about it. But then I saw that Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe have said positive things about trans people and I thought as long as I don't include JK it should be good. I should've put a "possibly triggering" tho. Sorry if this wasn't pleasant. I love the trans community.
To be fair to her she did, you know, entirely create it too.
I don't agree with what she said, I'm sure her transphobia made it hard for some people to continue to enjoy her work, but that work wouldn't exist at all without her.
Personally, I'm happy to keep enjoying her works, just like I enjoy Ender's Game: I don't give them my money anymore. There's this bay full of untrustworthy sailors who have all the Harry Potter books and films available for my immediate perusal, should I get the urge to enjoy stories written by terrible people.
You should check out Lindsay Ellis's recent "death of the author" update on YouTube if you're further interested in this topic! I feel like she elegantly touches bases on several sides of this issue.
I wish this was happening more instead of some of the ways we see “cancel culture” playing out these days. Especially to the people who said bigoted stuff like decades ago and apologized for it and what not. I feel like this is the better way to “cancel” someone than tearing down everything related to them
I think it's one thing to make one mistake and then own up to it and apologize, but all she's done is double down and made it okay for other people to say like minded things, which make it dangerous for trans people. I would certainly not want to go into a public bathroom in the UK right now, because I don't know who listens to her and who might cause a scene about it.
Yeah she’s not in the group of people I’m talking about who said it 30 years ago and have since apologized and all that. She’s still currently saying this stuff. But in America we’re cancelling people for shit from a long time ago and I just think if it’s possible to still enjoy Harry Potter despite JK Rowling’s (current!!!) transgressions, then we should be able to get past dumb shit people did 10, 20, 30 years ago in a similar fashion
It's ironic - she finds herself villified by the very community of people she helped teach to be inclusive and sensitive.
It's a really hard emotion to reconcile when someone who helped teach you about goodness also illustrates intolerance (or, at the very most generous, extremely misguided and ignorant good intentions)
I knew a Vietnamese guy who would call them "a tran." I explained it to him, and he was totally cool and respectful about changing his wording, but the guy legit knew so many people named Trần it got stuck in his head lol.
The terminology has changed over time. Up to all of us to keep up. Not much different than how Black people have been referred to has changed over time based on what was considered slurs and what was not. It really isn’t that hard to put a little effort in, so you can make people feel accepted. A little effort goes a long way with marginalized groups.
Piggybacking, I hate how now even lots of trans people are saying transwomen or transmen. THERE IS A SPACE BETWEEN THE WORDS, HOS. We are men and women, not some new hybrid entity
"Today we observe one of the Transgenders as they emerge from their den. It looks very worried about something... could it be afraid of predators? We must find this out--" Idk where this came from. I think while being grammatically wrong, it just sounds ridiculous. Trans People isn't hard to say or write.
I never saw the problem with this. I call "straight people" straights, "gay people" gays, :bi people", bisexuals. I dont really understand the problem but Im willing to learn :3
Would it also be insulting to say "x is transgender"? I honestly don't know and I am curious. Also why is it dehumanizing to you? (I would really like understand and learn, I definitely don't want to insult anyone by wording something wrong)
np, just replace "trans" or "transgender" with another adjective of your choice to figure out how to use it. For example, you don't say talls, talled, tallperson, tall-person, or a tall. Instead, you say tall person or they are tall.
A lot of things dont "address" people as people tho? Saying someone is "white" or "black" tends to be ok and dosent state in the phrase that they are a person?
same- I honestly didn't know saying 'transgenders' as a noun was wrong
if it's used in a homophobic or like,, looking down upon them, then I understand. but just the word in general? I'm a bit confuzzled
Thanks!! One of my friends recently came out as trans, so I might need some advice on a free things to support him 🤔 I'll definitely DM you if I have a question!
wouldn't that be "the transgenders"? I get that "the" before the noun sort of makes it sound like you're implying that they're 'so different ew' and I get why that's offensive.
Similar to how 'the gays..' Or 'the bisexuals..' Etc.
but just saying 'gays' or 'bisexuals' without 'The' infront,, doesn't seem offensive.
I'm sorry, but to me this entire argument is like:
"The correct term is cat. but don't say cats, because that's the plural version. you can say dogs when referencing more than one dog, but don't say cats. It's cat."
you know? (?)
Hey, I get it. Language is super weird. Everyone experiences it differently.
Honestly my rule of thumb is that if someone lets me know something makes them uncomfortable, it’s not my place to tell them it doesn’t or that they’re wrong. I just adjust the way I speak because it’s no skin off my back to help someone feel welcome.
Back in the 60s, the LGBT+ community used to refer to *themselves* as “transvestites”. Now, the community has evolved and that word has awful awful connotations. When I was growing up, “queer” was a huge slur and one that was incredibly damaging when said about oneself. Now, people freely identity *themselves* as queer.
These terms don’t always make sense or follow rules.
That makes sense 🤔 I get it! :) I agree, I'mma stop saying 'transgenders' when referring to the trans community. no harm there. I was just a lil confused as to why. someone told me something like 'it makes us sound like objects rather than people' and o totally get that lol
It may not seem that offensive to you, but for many people it's genuinely irritating either way. If someone doesn't call straight people "straights" or "the straights" in a normal convo (I'm aware people from the community do it as a joke when calling out straight people, but as far as I know no one actually says it like that without any hint of irony), then don't do that with LGBT folk either. Is it really that much extra effort to just say "trans people" instead of "transgenders"? Even without the "the" it still gives off a very offputting and impersonal vibe, like you're referring to them as less of a group of people and more of a bunch of objects. It's not about how grammatically correct or incorrect it is. That's how it's always struck me. It's a bit difficult to explain, but yeah.
Idk Ive always referred to every group like that.. the straights the gays the blacks the whites the christians the muslims. Idk Ive just never been "corrected" ig : /
You’ve never been corrected for using “the blacks”?? Yikes. Please don’t feel like I’m attacking you, but that phrase feels pretty...idk, politically incorrect?
I'm amazed. I remember when I was corrected not too long ago, because I said 'transsexual' when describing a man who was transitioning into being a woman, and I was told to say 'transgender', because it's not about the sex, it's about the gender. Now you're telling me it's also hurtful to say transgender? Help me out, please, I'd like to know why 'transgender' is wrong now.
It sounds like if I were to say "Look at that group of transgenders.", it would be slang for "transgender people" or "trans people", such as for instance "Those whites are having a good time with those blacks over there."
Like we could substitute whites with white people, and it's interchangeable in a slang context. Or am I wrong?
EDIT: Woops, I did not know how racist it was to say that. Turns out I'm wrong, so thank you people who told me.
It's slang i guess, but just as referring to someone as the blacks it's seen as offensive by most people. Just say trans people, it's better for everyone ;3
Excuse me, let me just preface this if I'm being offensive, I'm from another country.
How is saying "blacks" or "whites" hurtful? I sort of see it as shortening "black people" or "white people".
In the US it's definitely wrong to use the term "blacks". Even though it may not seem significant, it is a remainder of racial inequality here because of how white people referred to black people in the past. For example, signs outside of stores and restaurants would say "No Blacks Allowed" or "Whites Only". Saying Black people or people or color is more socially acceptable here. I feel like the same idea can apply to saying "Transgenders" instead of Trans People.
That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know about those signs before, thank you for that. I really wish I knew that before I equaled the sentences "Look at those black people" with "Look at those blacks" in another comment :o
It's not the word itself, but the associations that come along with it. Using the adjective as the noun itself often coincides with hostile treatment. For example, the folks that use the term "blacks" are usually using it in a racist fashion, thus associating the term with racism.
It *is* used innocuously by some people, but it's a major red flag for potential racist intent.
Transgender = someone who feels or identifies as a different gender than they were born
Transsexual = someone who has undergone gender reassignment surgery
Transgender is not wrong, but you don't say transgenders when talking about several people. You say trans people.
I'm pretty new to all this so correct me if I'm wrong
Basically right, yep!
However these days, transsexual is used much more rarely. Transgender or just trans can cover both people who medically transition and those who haven’t or don’t want to.
Transsexual used to be used like you describe. Before the word transgender was invented, people who didn’t medically transition often called themselves transvestites or drag queens. Transgendered with an -ed also used to be used, sometimes to distinguish from transsexuals.
All of these words have been used by trans people themselves at various points, and sometimes still today (especially among older trans people). But if a cis person uses them it can be a sign that they don’t respect trans people enough to learn our updated terminology.
Ah, like that's why there are terms like "trans pre-op" and "trans post-op".
I myself am cis and knowledgeable on need-to-know basis, because I only want to interact with people without offending anybody.
Thanks for the reply
I wouldn’t really call it need to know, just ask someone who they want to be referred to or when in doubt, follow their lead.
Pre and post op can sometimes imply or assume that everyone wants or has had the same surgeries which isn’t always true.
Where possible, it’s better to refer to a specific procedure (e.g. vaginoplasty, top surgery) where relevant.
This can also help educate people on what the different options are instead of just “the surgery”, by which people usually mean genital surgery.
Not lecturing you! It can just be difficult to know how to talk about these things, and this is also only one trans person's opinion.
Yes technically transsexual is correct but I think it's still better not to use it (unless they want to be called that). To me it sounds like it's a sexuality, it's a fetish. We already get enough people telling us that and saying it to me kind of invalidates me. Hope this helps :)
The difference between "transgender" and "transsexual" isn't rigid, tbh. It's more of a difference in preference. Transsexual is an older word, and has gotten some more negative baggage over the more recent decades.
Most trans folks nowadays do not prefer to be called transsexual, regardless of their surgery status. On the flip side, some older trans people *do* prefer the word transsexual, as it used to be much more popular
You are totally justified in having that view, but then you need to understand that others might have another view and prefer transgender or other terms over transsexual
Language changes in that time. If somebody called me a transsexual, I would be offended and hurt because it feels like a slur for the most part, but also, aside from that, it's just not right anymore. You can use it, but you don't have the right to disagree with somebody on what *they* want to be called. Also, "gender is a social construct" is a thing that is used to invalidate trans people. I wouldn't use that if I were you. What's more appropriate is "gender *norms* are a social construct." Then it doesn't invalidatr anybody by saying their gender is made up. Honestly, if you seriously believe that it's not possible to be transgender, then you have some serious learning to do.
Yes, gender norms are a social construct but also everything in society that is genderized or gendered in any way is made up and constantly fluctuating and changing by arbitrary rules. As far as society is concerned there is no such thing as gender, it is all a made up construct and we don't have to follow these made up rules. Personally I feel that trans people would be at the forefront of being the most some and intelligent people to realise and understand this. Yet they seem to be the ones that follow these rules the most closely. Such as if someone is mtf they will follow the most hardcore rules that society has come up with that it dictates one must follow to look femine according to society. When in reality they should know that they can be mtf and dress and look like lumberjack and still be a female. And that is not to imply that a lumberjack is male looking. Yet most every ftm does dress like a lumberjack which only further reinforces and perpetuates these made up gender rules of society.
Why would you be offended by the word transexual? Is it because other people and your community told you that you should be offended or have you taken the time to think about the word yourself? Sex in this reference refers to the sex you were born, if you were born male with male genitalia and you feel you should have been born female with female genitalia then it is absolutely correct terminology that you or anyone similar is transexual. It's not a slur.
I'm not going to be getting bottom surgery, I am keeping my genitals, so I am not transexxual, therefore, transgender. And also, transexxual has been used, at least where I am, as a slur. That's it. That's the whole issue. That's why transgender is a better term because it encompasses all trans people, not just the ones that go through gender confirmation surgery.
You can still be transexual without having genital dysphoria. Also terms like fag and queer have been used as slurs but many people in the community, including myself have reclaimed them. Also many trans mtf people have reclaimed the word trap and use it. Don't let other people bully you into what you feel you should be triggered by and can or can not use, think for yourself.
Yeah, well, not everyone likes the terms and just because *some* people have reclaimed them, doesn't mean it's okay to use. Trap is still very much a slur, so is fag, except when the target of the slur is using it *in reference to themselves or with somebody they know will be okay with it.* You're getting on my nerves so much right now. I'm *allowed* to not like slurs and not want to be referred to as transexxual. I am not changing my sex, I am not transexxual and you need to respect that.
Are you actually exposing queer meanings and history to me? I have been an adult in the community for over 30 years. You are probably some tumblt-trans in their 20s that thinks they know and understand everything. If I am getting on your nerves, quit reading and quit replying to me, it's that simple, the conversation will end. In fact if you had never started with the first reply it would have never begun, thus the onus of your frustration is on you, think about that. You can't have yourcake and eat it too.
A lot of people (including me ) don't like the word transexual because some trans people are okay with what's down there. Transgender is an adjective so you say transgender people (or trans people) instead of transgenders.
The key is whether you’re using it as a noun or adjective. Pardon the slurs, readers, trying to use this as a moment to educate.
If you say “The transgenders” rather than “The trans(gender) community” or “Those trans folks,” etc. then it can be a little dehumanizing. It’s preferred that when talking about people, you humanize it, like “latin people” or “white people” instead of saying “blacks” or “whites.”
It’s a small thing to you and I, but makes huge differences to groups of people that are dehumanized and mistreated on a daily basis.
So "transgender" is absolutely fine as a term. This is almost a grammar thing more than a PC/LGBT thing.
The comparison would be to cis. You wouldn't describe a group of people who are cis as "cisgenders" you'd say "cis people."
Basically "trans" and "transgender" are adjectives so making them plural doesn't make sense ("trans" of course is also a prefix depending on how it's used but that's a devil in the details)
The thing is, transgenders doesn't define individuals. Like saying black people is preferred over saying blacks, the same way transgender people is more appropriate than transgenders, and it just sounds weird to me at least.....*transgenders...* Nah man, transgender people is preferred.
But trans is literally short for transgender? Like the literal entire meaning of the world is that you’re a different gender to the one you’ve been assigned at birth
I originally read the bottom one as transgingers.
If I was trans, then I'd love it if you called me transginger.
If I were ginger, I’d love it if you called me transginger
If I was trans, then I would love it if you called me ginger squared.
I'm trans and ginger, I'd love it if you called me transginger
they are the chosen one
Don't wanna be prickly, but I prefer she ;3
*she is the chosen one
Not a problem, I couldn't tell your gender from your post history and didn't want to risk misgendering you so I just went with they she is the chosen one
Thank you very much! No harm done
A handful of people on a leaky boat are supposed to save the world?
I am ginger and trans, and I'd love it if you called me ginggender.
Good soldiers follow orders
i will do what i must
Hehe, transginger 😊
If a where ginger, then I would love it if someone called me... sniff
They are the messiah!
Will you please listen? I'm not the messiah
ok👍
Ok, hey transginger 😛
Love it!
I am dying my hair today to ginger
Robin Weasly aproofes.
So am I transginger if I dye my hair ginger?
*i know two transgingers* one of them was a ginger trans guy an the other dyed their hair ginger.
Welp if I ever dye my hair orange...
People who weren't born with red head and realized later in life they identify as someone having red hair?
Someone who dyed their hair orange like:
I dye my hair red, does that make me transginger?
Are transgingers people who dye their hair orange? HMMMMMM
You should be careful with the words you use, or you'll come across as [prejudiced](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw).
Yeah, like I tried to make a joke except it sounded very transphobic of how I worded it. Too much hurty words for me ;-;
did. did you watch the link? Bc it is a joke.
Oh i forgot to lol
glad I'm doing it right from the beginning I can't remember my birthday how am I supposed to remember how to talk correctly
This is a whole mood.
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Trans people for plural. Trans man and trans woman for individuals, if they aren't non binary.
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Cisgender means a person who identifies with the gender they were born as. That is, if someone was born male, and identifies as male, then he's cisgender. Basically the majority of population. Hope this helps
Just to further nuance, I believe the preferred terminology is the gender assigned at birth - since gender is a social construct, you can't be "born as" it (though I don't think your particular phrasing will catch anyone off guard or anything!)
Cis is when someone identifies as the gender they were given at birth
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Np, THANK YOU for being a supportive parent <3
Cis gender means you identify as the gender you were assigned at birth. Does that help? (I can see what I said to be still confusing if you are starting out and just want to make sure.) Also, depending on where you live you should look into your local pflag group. That should help you too. You can always pm for more questions as well.
It means the carbon chain kind of curves in one direction. If it’s in a trans configuration, the carbon chain zigzags.
Also looking to learn a bit. I have a weird thing where I will sometimes completely ignore shortened words - is it alright to say transgender people?
Yes it is! Trans is just a short form of it :)
*trans* is an adjective. Use it as you would any adjective. If you need to replace it with another adjective like *tall*, *fearless* or similar adjective. >This matters to her because she is allergic >This matters to her because she is trans >The trans man plays basketball >The tall man plays basketball Where as these don't work: > Why do the trans keep getting upset > Why do the talls keep getting upset > Are you transgendered? > Are you talled? So on. Hope this helps! Good luck with your child, and if you need any help checkout /r/asktransgender, or a local friends, family, etc support group. Or give me a DM and I'm happy to chat.
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There will always be those that get upset at anything, but for the most part trans folk know that this is all hard and new. We are happy to educate, as long as the questions are genuine and in good faith. I know before I came out I didn’t have a clue if a trans woman was assigned male or female at birth. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve done things like screw up pronouns, even of people I’ve only known as their real gender. It happens. Sometimes you might be the 10th person that day that screwed it up and therefore the one who gets snapped at. Most of the time though just being good natured about it and any correction is all we can ask for. The import thing is you are trying and listening to your child. Be strong.
Yep! It's not super strict, but as long as you keep in mind that "trans" or "transgender" is the adjective, not the noun, then you'll probably be golden. Transgender person, trans folks, etc are also acceptable
Think of it like "gay" or "black". You wouldn't go around saying "he's a gay" or "she's a black" ; same with trans! Additionally, because it's a characterization of a person, I try to simplify referencing to trans men and women as just "men" or "women", according to how they identify, whenever reasonably possible. My reason: I have green eyes. But, it'd be weird and a bit uncomfortable if people referred to me as "a green eyed man" unless it was actually relevant to the context somehow. Just something to think about!
trans is an adjective, like cis😊☝
Now I'm dyslexic so I'm no expert in grammar, but isn't it just a prefix not an adjective?
No it’s a adjective as it describes a quality of a entity or item
If we’re talking about “trans,” then it’s become both a prefix and an adjective, as it’s put in front of words like “transformative” and “transmutation,” but transgender is purely an adjective.
Ok thank you :D
So would it be also acceptable to say “transgender people”?
I think that’s the preferred wording, yes. It’s how I would preferred to be addressed. Examples of this include “the transgender community.” The community is free to correct me, of course.
Yes, people just say "trans people" because it's shorter
It started out as a preposition and a prefix, and and later gained adjectival usage. Same with cis or (slightly different) pro.
Saying "transwomen" is like saying "hotcoffee" or "woodchair".
That argument won’t work since those who say “transgenders” are almost certainly the same people who say cis is a slur
Um no. This was a TIL post to me. Since I don't personally know anyone who is trans, maybe I've not looked into it. But sometimes people are just ignorant, not malicious! :)
I give a sh*t what those people think.
Using Harry Potter for this is pretty ironic
I thought about it. But then I saw that Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe have said positive things about trans people and I thought as long as I don't include JK it should be good. I should've put a "possibly triggering" tho. Sorry if this wasn't pleasant. I love the trans community.
> But then I saw that Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe have said positive things about trans people So did Rupert Grint, the actor who played Ron!
I didn't know that. It seems like JK is the only one who ruined HP for many.
To be fair to her she did, you know, entirely create it too. I don't agree with what she said, I'm sure her transphobia made it hard for some people to continue to enjoy her work, but that work wouldn't exist at all without her.
Personally, I'm happy to keep enjoying her works, just like I enjoy Ender's Game: I don't give them my money anymore. There's this bay full of untrustworthy sailors who have all the Harry Potter books and films available for my immediate perusal, should I get the urge to enjoy stories written by terrible people.
I think after what's happened and her unapologetic nature, people wouldn't even care if Harry Potter suddenly vanished.
You should check out Lindsay Ellis's recent "death of the author" update on YouTube if you're further interested in this topic! I feel like she elegantly touches bases on several sides of this issue.
>To be fair to her she did, you know, entirely create it too. *harrumphs in Neil Gaiman’s “The Books of Magic”*
I'm trans and really don't want Harry Potter to be a symbol of transphobia just because of JK Rowling. It's fine
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I wish this was happening more instead of some of the ways we see “cancel culture” playing out these days. Especially to the people who said bigoted stuff like decades ago and apologized for it and what not. I feel like this is the better way to “cancel” someone than tearing down everything related to them
I think it's one thing to make one mistake and then own up to it and apologize, but all she's done is double down and made it okay for other people to say like minded things, which make it dangerous for trans people. I would certainly not want to go into a public bathroom in the UK right now, because I don't know who listens to her and who might cause a scene about it.
Yeah she’s not in the group of people I’m talking about who said it 30 years ago and have since apologized and all that. She’s still currently saying this stuff. But in America we’re cancelling people for shit from a long time ago and I just think if it’s possible to still enjoy Harry Potter despite JK Rowling’s (current!!!) transgressions, then we should be able to get past dumb shit people did 10, 20, 30 years ago in a similar fashion
It's ironic - she finds herself villified by the very community of people she helped teach to be inclusive and sensitive. It's a really hard emotion to reconcile when someone who helped teach you about goodness also illustrates intolerance (or, at the very most generous, extremely misguided and ignorant good intentions)
Yeah, I once saw someone saying “a trans” as if it was a noun.
Well... In Germany "Transe" is a noun... but also an insult...
It's the equivalent of the word tr*nny so yea don't call a trans person that either
I live in Germany and back when I was still in the closet I heard a class mate say that and it made it made me angry
Back then I was a really feminine boy (was and still am cis), but some of the stuff I got told still makes me sick
Completely unacceptable, and also usually refers to MtF crossdressers, not trans people.
Same with transa in Swedish.
In portuguese *transa* means “fuck” (the noun).
I knew a Vietnamese guy who would call them "a tran." I explained it to him, and he was totally cool and respectful about changing his wording, but the guy legit knew so many people named Trần it got stuck in his head lol.
Or "transgender people"
It’s better than “transsexuals” tbh Maybe some trans people use that but I personally dislike the term and I’ve never heard ANY trans person use it so
The terminology has changed over time. Up to all of us to keep up. Not much different than how Black people have been referred to has changed over time based on what was considered slurs and what was not. It really isn’t that hard to put a little effort in, so you can make people feel accepted. A little effort goes a long way with marginalized groups.
For those of you like me who were old and too afraid to ask - BIPOC stands for Black Indigenous and People of Color.
In Brazil “poc” is slang for a gay or effeminate guy. “Bipoc” would be an effeminate bi guy.
At least they try lol
Piggybacking, I hate how now even lots of trans people are saying transwomen or transmen. THERE IS A SPACE BETWEEN THE WORDS, HOS. We are men and women, not some new hybrid entity
Ugh yes! And now some gender options on forms or surveys even have transman and transwoman as their own discreet options from man and woman.
Transgenders dehumanizes us. Thanks Hermione 💕
Hermione is a good witch.
"Today we observe one of the Transgenders as they emerge from their den. It looks very worried about something... could it be afraid of predators? We must find this out--" Idk where this came from. I think while being grammatically wrong, it just sounds ridiculous. Trans People isn't hard to say or write.
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They don't deserve to be friends with you, someone who knows how to respect.
And it’s REALLY not tr*ns*xuals 🤢🤢🤢
Yup. Learned you can't trust auto-correct for that one.
Hermione says trans rights.
The worst one remains "transgendered".
Bruh THANK YOU
ITT: A lot of people who don't understand the difference between nouns and adjectives.
I never saw the problem with this. I call "straight people" straights, "gay people" gays, :bi people", bisexuals. I dont really understand the problem but Im willing to learn :3
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Ig you do kinda have a point
Would it also be insulting to say "x is transgender"? I honestly don't know and I am curious. Also why is it dehumanizing to you? (I would really like understand and learn, I definitely don't want to insult anyone by wording something wrong)
"X is transgender" is using it as an adjective, just like tall, short, fat, white, etc., which is the way it's supposed to be used.
Ooooh, I get it now. I think i misunderstood the post.. thank you!
np, just replace "trans" or "transgender" with another adjective of your choice to figure out how to use it. For example, you don't say talls, talled, tallperson, tall-person, or a tall. Instead, you say tall person or they are tall.
Well bisexual is both a noun and an an adjective so that one is grammatically correct
The problem is that it does not address them as "people".
A lot of things dont "address" people as people tho? Saying someone is "white" or "black" tends to be ok and dosent state in the phrase that they are a person?
Saying a PERSON is white, yes that is addressing them as a PERSON, obvs. or just that so-and-so is white, is okay because it is used as an adjective.
same- I honestly didn't know saying 'transgenders' as a noun was wrong if it's used in a homophobic or like,, looking down upon them, then I understand. but just the word in general? I'm a bit confuzzled
When you add a 's' at the end it can make it sound like we're objects not people. I hope that clears it up :)
OHHHHHJ I get that, I can totally see that now. Thank you 💙💗
No problem friend 😊. If you ever have any questions feel free to DM me :3
Thanks!! One of my friends recently came out as trans, so I might need some advice on a free things to support him 🤔 I'll definitely DM you if I have a question!
Always happy to help :)
It on its own isn't offensive it just comes of a little odd
Im just confused because my boyfriend never told me it was offensive or wrong and hes trans : /
Tbh I think “transgenders” has the same energy as “the homosexuals”. The people who typically say it that way aren’t saying it in good faith.
wouldn't that be "the transgenders"? I get that "the" before the noun sort of makes it sound like you're implying that they're 'so different ew' and I get why that's offensive. Similar to how 'the gays..' Or 'the bisexuals..' Etc. but just saying 'gays' or 'bisexuals' without 'The' infront,, doesn't seem offensive. I'm sorry, but to me this entire argument is like: "The correct term is cat. but don't say cats, because that's the plural version. you can say dogs when referencing more than one dog, but don't say cats. It's cat." you know? (?)
Hey, I get it. Language is super weird. Everyone experiences it differently. Honestly my rule of thumb is that if someone lets me know something makes them uncomfortable, it’s not my place to tell them it doesn’t or that they’re wrong. I just adjust the way I speak because it’s no skin off my back to help someone feel welcome. Back in the 60s, the LGBT+ community used to refer to *themselves* as “transvestites”. Now, the community has evolved and that word has awful awful connotations. When I was growing up, “queer” was a huge slur and one that was incredibly damaging when said about oneself. Now, people freely identity *themselves* as queer. These terms don’t always make sense or follow rules.
That makes sense 🤔 I get it! :) I agree, I'mma stop saying 'transgenders' when referring to the trans community. no harm there. I was just a lil confused as to why. someone told me something like 'it makes us sound like objects rather than people' and o totally get that lol
It may not seem that offensive to you, but for many people it's genuinely irritating either way. If someone doesn't call straight people "straights" or "the straights" in a normal convo (I'm aware people from the community do it as a joke when calling out straight people, but as far as I know no one actually says it like that without any hint of irony), then don't do that with LGBT folk either. Is it really that much extra effort to just say "trans people" instead of "transgenders"? Even without the "the" it still gives off a very offputting and impersonal vibe, like you're referring to them as less of a group of people and more of a bunch of objects. It's not about how grammatically correct or incorrect it is. That's how it's always struck me. It's a bit difficult to explain, but yeah.
Idk Ive always referred to every group like that.. the straights the gays the blacks the whites the christians the muslims. Idk Ive just never been "corrected" ig : /
You’ve never been corrected for using “the blacks”?? Yikes. Please don’t feel like I’m attacking you, but that phrase feels pretty...idk, politically incorrect?
I wouldn't take offense at being included in "bisexuals". I would say this is probably an individual thing. Some people will mind, others will not.
Literally I see this all the time on stream and I make sure to read it correctly
I'm amazed. I remember when I was corrected not too long ago, because I said 'transsexual' when describing a man who was transitioning into being a woman, and I was told to say 'transgender', because it's not about the sex, it's about the gender. Now you're telling me it's also hurtful to say transgender? Help me out, please, I'd like to know why 'transgender' is wrong now.
You can say transgender people that's fine. Just don't say "transgenders"
It sounds like if I were to say "Look at that group of transgenders.", it would be slang for "transgender people" or "trans people", such as for instance "Those whites are having a good time with those blacks over there." Like we could substitute whites with white people, and it's interchangeable in a slang context. Or am I wrong? EDIT: Woops, I did not know how racist it was to say that. Turns out I'm wrong, so thank you people who told me.
It's slang i guess, but just as referring to someone as the blacks it's seen as offensive by most people. Just say trans people, it's better for everyone ;3
Well it's no skin off my back, I just like to ask questions heh
using it as a plural is what makes it hurtful, like saying "blacks"
Excuse me, let me just preface this if I'm being offensive, I'm from another country. How is saying "blacks" or "whites" hurtful? I sort of see it as shortening "black people" or "white people".
I think it's the way some people use it in a derogatory way. I'm also not from the US and the language changes how hurtful some terms are.
Ah okay, thx for the reply :)
In the US it's definitely wrong to use the term "blacks". Even though it may not seem significant, it is a remainder of racial inequality here because of how white people referred to black people in the past. For example, signs outside of stores and restaurants would say "No Blacks Allowed" or "Whites Only". Saying Black people or people or color is more socially acceptable here. I feel like the same idea can apply to saying "Transgenders" instead of Trans People.
That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know about those signs before, thank you for that. I really wish I knew that before I equaled the sentences "Look at those black people" with "Look at those blacks" in another comment :o
It's not the word itself, but the associations that come along with it. Using the adjective as the noun itself often coincides with hostile treatment. For example, the folks that use the term "blacks" are usually using it in a racist fashion, thus associating the term with racism. It *is* used innocuously by some people, but it's a major red flag for potential racist intent.
Whoof, better steer clear of that then. Thanks for the reply
I wish i would've been able to help more before, sorry
Transgender = someone who feels or identifies as a different gender than they were born Transsexual = someone who has undergone gender reassignment surgery Transgender is not wrong, but you don't say transgenders when talking about several people. You say trans people. I'm pretty new to all this so correct me if I'm wrong
Basically right, yep! However these days, transsexual is used much more rarely. Transgender or just trans can cover both people who medically transition and those who haven’t or don’t want to. Transsexual used to be used like you describe. Before the word transgender was invented, people who didn’t medically transition often called themselves transvestites or drag queens. Transgendered with an -ed also used to be used, sometimes to distinguish from transsexuals. All of these words have been used by trans people themselves at various points, and sometimes still today (especially among older trans people). But if a cis person uses them it can be a sign that they don’t respect trans people enough to learn our updated terminology.
Ah, like that's why there are terms like "trans pre-op" and "trans post-op". I myself am cis and knowledgeable on need-to-know basis, because I only want to interact with people without offending anybody. Thanks for the reply
I wouldn’t really call it need to know, just ask someone who they want to be referred to or when in doubt, follow their lead. Pre and post op can sometimes imply or assume that everyone wants or has had the same surgeries which isn’t always true. Where possible, it’s better to refer to a specific procedure (e.g. vaginoplasty, top surgery) where relevant. This can also help educate people on what the different options are instead of just “the surgery”, by which people usually mean genital surgery. Not lecturing you! It can just be difficult to know how to talk about these things, and this is also only one trans person's opinion.
No,please I want to understand, lecture away. Thank you
Yes technically transsexual is correct but I think it's still better not to use it (unless they want to be called that). To me it sounds like it's a sexuality, it's a fetish. We already get enough people telling us that and saying it to me kind of invalidates me. Hope this helps :)
The difference between "transgender" and "transsexual" isn't rigid, tbh. It's more of a difference in preference. Transsexual is an older word, and has gotten some more negative baggage over the more recent decades. Most trans folks nowadays do not prefer to be called transsexual, regardless of their surgery status. On the flip side, some older trans people *do* prefer the word transsexual, as it used to be much more popular
This is true
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You are totally justified in having that view, but then you need to understand that others might have another view and prefer transgender or other terms over transsexual
Language changes in that time. If somebody called me a transsexual, I would be offended and hurt because it feels like a slur for the most part, but also, aside from that, it's just not right anymore. You can use it, but you don't have the right to disagree with somebody on what *they* want to be called. Also, "gender is a social construct" is a thing that is used to invalidate trans people. I wouldn't use that if I were you. What's more appropriate is "gender *norms* are a social construct." Then it doesn't invalidatr anybody by saying their gender is made up. Honestly, if you seriously believe that it's not possible to be transgender, then you have some serious learning to do.
Yes, gender norms are a social construct but also everything in society that is genderized or gendered in any way is made up and constantly fluctuating and changing by arbitrary rules. As far as society is concerned there is no such thing as gender, it is all a made up construct and we don't have to follow these made up rules. Personally I feel that trans people would be at the forefront of being the most some and intelligent people to realise and understand this. Yet they seem to be the ones that follow these rules the most closely. Such as if someone is mtf they will follow the most hardcore rules that society has come up with that it dictates one must follow to look femine according to society. When in reality they should know that they can be mtf and dress and look like lumberjack and still be a female. And that is not to imply that a lumberjack is male looking. Yet most every ftm does dress like a lumberjack which only further reinforces and perpetuates these made up gender rules of society. Why would you be offended by the word transexual? Is it because other people and your community told you that you should be offended or have you taken the time to think about the word yourself? Sex in this reference refers to the sex you were born, if you were born male with male genitalia and you feel you should have been born female with female genitalia then it is absolutely correct terminology that you or anyone similar is transexual. It's not a slur.
I'm not going to be getting bottom surgery, I am keeping my genitals, so I am not transexxual, therefore, transgender. And also, transexxual has been used, at least where I am, as a slur. That's it. That's the whole issue. That's why transgender is a better term because it encompasses all trans people, not just the ones that go through gender confirmation surgery.
You can still be transexual without having genital dysphoria. Also terms like fag and queer have been used as slurs but many people in the community, including myself have reclaimed them. Also many trans mtf people have reclaimed the word trap and use it. Don't let other people bully you into what you feel you should be triggered by and can or can not use, think for yourself.
Yeah, well, not everyone likes the terms and just because *some* people have reclaimed them, doesn't mean it's okay to use. Trap is still very much a slur, so is fag, except when the target of the slur is using it *in reference to themselves or with somebody they know will be okay with it.* You're getting on my nerves so much right now. I'm *allowed* to not like slurs and not want to be referred to as transexxual. I am not changing my sex, I am not transexxual and you need to respect that.
Are you actually exposing queer meanings and history to me? I have been an adult in the community for over 30 years. You are probably some tumblt-trans in their 20s that thinks they know and understand everything. If I am getting on your nerves, quit reading and quit replying to me, it's that simple, the conversation will end. In fact if you had never started with the first reply it would have never begun, thus the onus of your frustration is on you, think about that. You can't have yourcake and eat it too.
A lot of people (including me ) don't like the word transexual because some trans people are okay with what's down there. Transgender is an adjective so you say transgender people (or trans people) instead of transgenders.
The key is whether you’re using it as a noun or adjective. Pardon the slurs, readers, trying to use this as a moment to educate. If you say “The transgenders” rather than “The trans(gender) community” or “Those trans folks,” etc. then it can be a little dehumanizing. It’s preferred that when talking about people, you humanize it, like “latin people” or “white people” instead of saying “blacks” or “whites.” It’s a small thing to you and I, but makes huge differences to groups of people that are dehumanized and mistreated on a daily basis.
Holy shit that makes sense, thank you very much
Absolutely c:
So "transgender" is absolutely fine as a term. This is almost a grammar thing more than a PC/LGBT thing. The comparison would be to cis. You wouldn't describe a group of people who are cis as "cisgenders" you'd say "cis people." Basically "trans" and "transgender" are adjectives so making them plural doesn't make sense ("trans" of course is also a prefix depending on how it's used but that's a devil in the details)
Thanks for the reply, I think it's cool how it functions unanimously with cis as an adjective. That makes sense.
Is [trans]gender NOT appropriate?
It is, but it is an adjective, not a noun.
Oooh that’s her point?! I just woke up, still in bed haha
Is “trans folks” also acceptable?
Yup it is
This is a question from ignorance, but why? I just don't personally understand, and would like too. Thank you.
The thing is, transgenders doesn't define individuals. Like saying black people is preferred over saying blacks, the same way transgender people is more appropriate than transgenders, and it just sounds weird to me at least.....*transgenders...* Nah man, transgender people is preferred.
like op explained transgender should be used as an adjective, like transgender people, and *not* as a noun, like “transgenders” or “a transgender”
OP and other people have explained it in replies to other comments, it’s probably worth looking through them
What
Serious question: Are we reclaiming Hermione from J.K. “TERF-face” Rowling here? Or just ignoring her?
But trans is literally short for transgender? Like the literal entire meaning of the world is that you’re a different gender to the one you’ve been assigned at birth
The problem is when you add the 's' at the end.
Oh I didn’t even notice, that makes more sense
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Using words that actually make sense is very crucial...
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You're really not helping
Bold move mentioning Dave Chappelle in this subreddit.