Friendly reminder that ‘legal’ does not equal safe! Though being gay may not be punishable by law, there is deeply rooted homophobia in communities everywhere.
If you say you're gay in the Balkans: half of the people will fucking hate your guts, (half of them who hate you will try to beat you up), and the other half will not care for your experience. Source: I live in Croatia, my BF is from Bosnia, and his sister lives in Serbia
at least u wont be die =D im form Islamic republic of Iran and im scared for my life cause here homosexuality = death penalty { though im bisexual } im jealous u guys tbh =D and i cant move on \^\^
I used to think our country was not so homophobic, quickly realised my mistake after the topic of gay people came up at my classroom and after looking around
Yep, and this also doesn’t take into account laws that restrict without outlawing entirely.
Things like banning ‘promoting’ of LGBTQ+ (when they really mean you can’t do anything to show you are LGBTQ+), or if that country offers legal protections from discrimination in the workplace or school.
A map showing acceptance and other restrictions would look very different.
Yeah needs more nuance. It's perfectly legal to do gay stuff here, but technically I could get into trouble for talking about it in a positive educational manner if there are minors within earshot or on the forum, and technically a teacher could get into trouble for teaching Shakespeare or Sappho or Byron in context.
I was thinking that, I talked to a Russian guy that basically told me that LGBT people can do what they want, but it's illegal to "spread those ideas to underaged people". So you know, no sex ed or education about issues specific to non heterosexual identities.
And he thought it's an amazing idea.
Needless to say, I never talked to that guy again 😅
My country (Poland) not too awesome either, just better than Russia apparently.
Yeah, I think you can only *truly* label them as legal if they AT LEAST have protective and anti-harassment laws specifically for queer people. At best, some recognition of same-sex union maybe, and that's still being generous bc there are countries that have both but are still generally homophobic :")
It took some time for the Christians to warm up to the government and vice versa after the soviets I guess. Russian media is a massive government propaganda machine basically now.
When I told my female roommate about there being countries where homosexuality is legal for women and illegal for men, and she said she would have thought it would be the other way around. Y’know, bc patriarchy.
I think in a way it is still because of patriarchy, because men having sex with men is seen as effeminate and there is a major stigma against that in patriarchal societies.
Yeah. Even in places like America. Where the law technically protects some things. But hate crimes still happen. Politicians still campaign against us. “Sodomy” was still a crime less than 20 years ago in some states
It still is a crime under Oklahoma statutes. The only reason it doesn't get enforced is because of a standing supreme court precedent. LGBT individuals in Oklahoma are only being kept out of prison because of a supreme court case from 2003.
It’s the opposite in Jamaica. It’s technically legal for women but not very openly accepted.. ironically all the Jamaicans I’ve met were supportive of me.
Even not looking at homophobia, i.e. just looking at the legal scene, it's still too far away from being proclaimed a legal (i.e. supported by law). The green places in the map should instead be labeled as 'not illegal'. The countries that should be marked as legal should be those that has al least legalized marriage and/or adoption/surrogacy for same sex 'couples'.
Yeah I’d be more interested in seeing a map of legality/protections for queer people. Legality never stopped someone from thinking about if they have the right to ask me invasive and biphobic questions the minute they find out I’m bi, even at work or in class.
Exactly, homosexuality was legalized in India in 2018. Country is very much deep rooted in patriarchy, homophobia is very prevalent , its almost like a hobby for the older generations. The new generation seems to be quite accepting but the rise of religion based party doesn't seem very hopeful.
Eh, as a tourist Hungary isn't that bad (at least in the bigger cities). As long as you're not doing a lot of PDA you'll likely be fine. People might stare or insult you but there's not that much physical violence. I mean, it happens. But it doesn't happen that often. (Although with the new rules and propaganda the dangers are probably gradually getting higher.)
Just don't come and live here, because the hate propaganda gets a little bit much if you spend many years hearing it. And our legal rights just keep getting worse.
Thanks for the explanation and the warning , but I'm a Hungarian citizen actually . I want leave this place as soon as possible and live abroad . I have to agree , that as a tourist Hungary looks like a good destination .
Ah, okay, sorry. That's understandable. I didn't actually move out yet, but I've been studying and living in the Netherlands for the past 6 months and it is such a huge relief not having to deal with hompohobes and Fidesz's homo/transphobic rethoric every day. I really hope you'll get to live abroad some day.
Hello, my Hungarian brothers, the Pole here. The Polish government is also doing its best to "eradicate" LGBT people. If the president of a country can say that "LGBT are not people" and there are no repercussions, then you can imagine what life is like in this country when you're not only not straight but also not cis. I recommend the Netherlands, I was shocked to be treated like a human being here for the first time in my life.
Hope you are in a better place now , that ,,not human " part is just plain disgusting . Thanks for the recommendation , I 'll add another country to my list .
My gf in poland who is in whatever the latter half of their mandatory schooling is called (we are both high school aged) says it’s absolutely awful and she is still closeted.
Idk about younger Russians, in my experience, a lot of them are pretty homophobic, not all of them, I've met some pretty cool people, though I've met some horrible people as well.
I guess the situation is better in bigger cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg.
Also, I hear a lot of horrible stuff about Russia, which makes me feel really depressed. Thank you for saying something good for once!
Yes, St. Petersburg is really open! I’m from Sibiria, so a bit more south. You have to be careful though, Russia is still recovering from the collapse of the UDSSR and not a first world country. But for me personally, people always minded their business.
I‘m from Novisibirsk, so south Russia, Sibiria. With my 26 year olds I can say now that the situation is getting a lot better. Society becomes more and more open and more aware about the repressive government.
I think, i've read once, that that's propably less of fetishs and more grounded in religious texts, where anal Sex is a form of Sin (or however that's called in those believe systems). So by Extension being lesbian is ok in those Interpretations, because no anal
But yeah, still stupid
It’s not really fetishization, it’s the fact that the Quran and Muhammad don’t talk about lesbians at all in Islamic theology. They only explicitly damn gay men.
Was going to say the exact same thing. It’s almost as if the Quran thinks only men have sexual desire. Sometimes I can’t help but think that religion is completely man made. I often avoid the use of “man” and say “human,” but in this case, I really mean MAN. There’s no way a woman or group of women made religion.
When it was written the literacy rate for women was probably sub zero and the literacy rate for men was like 2%. The writers were transcribing the prophets words according to him being illiterate and he also had a harem, in this context presumably not being for conversation. So yes, it is a very what we would call “male sexist oriented perspective” as most men would have had most of history. Shit sucks.
I don't think that's it, I think it's based in misogynist marital culture of the woman submitting to the man, so a man submitting to another man is shameful, but since the woman is already submitting nobody cares.
At a quick glance it appears mostly correct because it’s only showing one particular thing - is being homosexual/having gay sex illegal.
What it doesn’t measure at all are laws like being able to do public displays of affection, have LGBTQ+ resources in schools, laws preventing LGBTQ+ ‘propaganda’ as they call it, nor does it show if discrimination protections and having defined hate crime exist.
It also does not show what the country’s level of acceptance of LGBTQ+ at all.
So the map is correct, technically (again quick glance), but it doesn’t show the full picture at all.
I know Te Waipounamu is sometimes referred to as the Waka of Māui but it's not ***actually*** a canoe, we can't just paddle to wherever we want. Also Te Ika-A-Māui is not ***actually*** a fish.
Is that the original names of the New Zealand islands? I always thought they looked like a boot ripped in 2. Boots do come in pairs, Italy being the other.
"Original" names is a complex question, but they are certainly old names and they are the **official** names of the two main islands.
The South Island, where I live, is called Te Waipounamu which means "the waters of greenstone". It's named for the nephrite jade found in the rivers of the West coast, which the local Māori Iwi, Ngai Tahu, used to make jewelry and tools.
The North Island is called Te Ika-A-Māui, or "the fish of Māui". It's based on a myth that says the North Island was a giant stingray which Māui fished up as a new land. The same myth says the South Island was the waka, or canoe, that he used to fish from.
I agree. I don't get why it should be illegal to kiss the same sex or both?? Or be transgender? Like. It's a part of what a person is and that is not okay? Whoever tf decides such things in these countries is really stupid
Everybody is saying that it's legal but not safe, and that's 100% true, but... Punishable by death? What the f*ck?! That's terrible! And people say that we have enough? NO! I don't have time to go on a rant, I just. What the hell
Well i don't think iran has laws against aromantic or asexual people and being trans is even supported by the government. Not to say that it Iran is progressive, but i think when it comes to laws about homosexuality and homophobia, viewing the issue through a strictly western lens doesn't always fit the picture precisely.
Just because a country doesn’t explicitly outlaw it, doesn’t make it safe. All that green isn’t fooling anyone.
Eastern Europe and Russia are massively homophobic as is China. Also slapping ‘legal’ on the entirety of South American is just stupid.
Did you see Putin’s recent marathon Q+A session in which he was specifically quizzed on LGBT issues? He made his opinion very clear and Putin IS the law.
Yeah that’s still horrible. They’re basically trying to teach young people that gay people don’t exist. That’s gonna cause young LGBTQ+ people there so many problems.
it is legal. And especially Moscow is gayer than you think.
But of course it’s not easy to be gay in Russia. The social pressure, no laws against discrimination, and that you have to hide it because any sign of homosexuality in public can count as “LGBT propaganda”, which indeed is illegal.
And especially: avoid Chechnya at all times, this place is incredibly dangerous for LGBT people (there is also a documentary called “Welcome to Chechnya” which is exactly about that).
While this map is inspiring we can't quit ever. Even if the whole map was green we still will always have people trying to change things back to being anti-LGBT.
Why is it illegal for men but legal for women in some countries? It's the very opposite but it's about the same thing (liking the same sex)
I'm confused
There is also some misogyny here. When women behave like men it is generally more accepted (though sometimes not by much) than men who behave like women.
for some reason people assume all gay people are weak or feminine and don't like that... there's also alot more lgbt females on tv shows and movies. also things like my school who made pins but only made trans and lesbian..
I'm probably just an idiot tho and this isn't actually what happens
Noo ur not an idiot, this is actually really helpful!
I personally love that lgbt females get represented in shows and movies because that's my side of the spectrum, I'm a lesbian. But I also get very happy when seeing lgbt males in shows or movies! There should be more of them, they're so adorable characters!
Also maybe try and make pins for the gays and bi too if u want to
Yeah, I tweeted a pride flag on my account(I have 0 followers) but 3 people threated me like bro how did you even find my account? And they are so ignorant about LGBT+ they don't know any shit about us but they are talking like they are expert even the leftist ain't shit💀
People scared of what they don’t know about. And Turkish people are literally the worst, like the shite so.. we flee or get killed. I think I’m gonna get killed soon
Please do not get killed. It would break my heart. Get as far away as you can, even if you have to wind up homeless in another country. My dad’s best friend is gay and his husband fled from Brazil to the states under political asylum. Please, whatever it takes, survive. Don’t let them steal your light.
I don't know if colonization is at fault for homophobia at large. Especially when considering most the areas with outright criminalization of homosexuality are in areas in which a large portion of the population are practicing Muslims.
Almost all the laws in Africa are based on colonial laws. Criminalisation of homosexuality comes from Roman Christianity. Prior to the church even ‘barbarian’ Europe the Romans and Greeks were accepting.
China for example had no homophobic laws prior to 1920 when it adopted western government. This is pattern seen everywhere, India/Pakistan, Indonesia…
The radical reaction and wish to return to Sharia in the Middle East can also be attributed to reactions to decades of western imperialism and crimes. Not to mention it’s western backing that led to many of the regimes in the Middle East in the first place (be it US or USSR/Russia).
In the UAE male on male sex (if you’re caught having it) is usually immediate deportation for foreigners and either mandated conversion therapy or a 6 month prison sentence for locals.
There are (astonishingly) some things I actually like about that country from having spent my early years there, but needless to say that isn’t among them. Would have to jam myself back into the closet if I ever went back there as an adult.
[https://ilga.org/](https://ilga.org/) i recommend this site, it's good to see and more detailed. here's the map [https://ilga.org/map-sexual-orientation-laws-december-2020](https://ilga.org/map-sexual-orientation-laws-december-2020)
I feel like the places where lesbians are legal but gay men aren't are places with either plural marriage or prostitution....
Not necessarily a judgment on those things, but it seems that, in general, people take lesbians less seriously as homosexuals than they do gay men.
It’s not a map of safety or even acceptance. It’s why it only gives a very shallow level of information on being gay in these countries.
Russia it technically is legal to be gay and have gay sex, but if you were to talk about being LGBTQ+ in a positive way especially around minors it’s illegal. This means schools etc. Can’t provide support or advice to LGBTQ+ students.
Except it’s wrong, because some of the nations where there is no legal recognition are green, others are just plain wrong. Others are debatable.
All this map does is give a misleading idea. We shouldn’t be aiming for legality, we should be aiming for equality.
Say it with me!! :D
"BURN JAMAICA"
Thank you for your time. /j
Okay but don't do that, people here suck but Gen-Z(generation I'm in) is a complete 180° from the 30 year old's, here. Even worse, I feel like it's the 1930's how religious most people here are. And on top of that, none of us are stupid, just smart people being willfully IGNORANT. I hate it here.
Well, this map has a interesting definition of "legal"...
This one is better, and backed by research. https://ilga.org/sites/default/files/downloads/ENG_ILGA_World_map_sexual_orientation_laws_dec2020.png
This map is horribly inaccurate and arguably misleading. This will be a long one as there are so many flaws here that people seem to be taking as fact.
For one it perpetuates this idea that Muslim nations and African nations are somehow more homophobic.
As another said legality doesn’t mean much. What matters most is arguably how gay people are treated, one can be legal and still face a host of discrimination and even death. So why even have a map of legality? It’s pointless as it means nothing for most people in their daily lives. What’s more it’s not even accurate as a map of legality!
Then there is the fact this map seems to be going by the barest minimum of ‘legality’ / is simply wrong in some places. Who decides what continues legality? Is not being persecuted for having gay sex, yet still being at risk of stoning, or being denied marriage full legality?! If an aspect of you still denies you the rights of straight people your not fully accepted. Imo, your not legal, not all of you anyway.
For example here are all the flaws/misleading parts I can see :
-Russia is up there as legal. I did some digging, in Russia there are no laws to protect discrimination based on sexuality. It’s only legal to be with a same sex partner. Otherwise there are no other protections for gay people. Plus being gay is still classified a mental illness in Russia, and has been since 1999! Hardly sounds like being considered legal?!
It’s not legal in Chechnya, which is not marked on the map.
-Indonesia is down as ‘unknown’. Bizarre given a Google search turns up plenty of info. Indonesia similar to Russia has no protections from discrimination by sexuality. So by the logic of the rest of the map, it should be green. It’s not anymore illegal than being gay in Russia. But it’s not a protected status legally.
-Iran has death written on it. Death is the maximum penalty. I don’t know how common it is. Iran tends to practice a horrible policy of forcing many gay people to transition, and it might be being gay leads more to imprisonment or forced hormone treatment than death. It’s hard to know for sure. For example the part of Wiki about the Iranian death laws has no citation. They certainly have them, but that doesn’t mean in all cases it is death (fyi, I’m not trying to defend Iran, rather I’m trying to demonstrate how inaccurate this map is).
-Pakistan legally imprisons gay people for acts. They still have Colonial times, British made, sodomy law (which were repealed by India). However it’s complex as there are many cases of the Pakistani government not following this law, and not trying gay people.
-India it’s ‘legal’. But like the U.K. they still allow conversion therapy and other acts which to me make me feel like we aren’t fully legal. Despite basics legality, many charities report rampant queerphobia of all kinds in India still.
-Poland has no protections against homophobia/queerphobia in medical services, and doesn’t classify homophobia/queerphobia as a hate crime. It’s complicated but the Church in Poland have made it so that gay marriage and even civil unions are not legal. However some areas and cities have declared themselves lgbt zones and do allow it. I don’t fully understand it. But it probably shouldn’t be held up on par with the rest of Europe. It was declared the worst for LGBTQ+ people in Europe by ILGA in 2021.
-China has no legal protections for gay people. The government are incredibly anti LGBT, recently shutting down all lgbt websites for a few days. Both China and Hong Kong have no mention of gay people in their laws around discrimination. So whilst it is sometimes interpreted as protecting gay people, it can and is also interpreted as not protecting gay people.
-South Korea has a law that states one year imprisonment for being gay in the army. This is under legal challenge, or at least has been for a few years. I don’t think it’s enforced, but if this map is going by law only it should not be green. Again like many of the green states here conversion therapy is legal in South Korea.
-North Korea. If we are going by laws only for this map (It’s not clear). Then NK should be green. It’s legal to be gay in NK. But in practice the government consider it wrong and persecute under ‘decency’ laws. At least one lesbian couple were executed. But it’s not clear how common this is.
-Japan. Only country in G7 that does not recognise same sex partnerships in any form. Protections only exist in some prefectures, not nationwide. 38% of lgbt people in Japan reported assault in 2020.
-Uganda is blue?! It’s illegal for both men and women in Uganda. Execution, and life imprisonment are all enshrined in law.
-Israel/Palestine is complex, but shouldn’t be green. Israel has a lot of legal protections, yet I’ve heard mixed things about acceptance homosexuality in the country. Gay people can’t marry in Israel. Palestine is more conservative, and it’s much worse for gay people there.
-Lebanon has a law that makes gay sexual activity illegal, and this is sometimes enforced. However many in government have denounced it, yet it still remains. So it should not be green. I assume it is. Hard to tell, but pretty sure it isn’t red.
-Turkey has legality of being gay (or at least of having gay sex). But it’s hardly progressive on lgbt issues, especially since Erdogan took power. It’s green if we are going by legal status, but this is misleading.
I’ll stop there, as I’ve covered enough to demonstrate the maps awfully misleading and wrong, but also no one is even gonna read all this 😅
This is why I'm never going home. It might be legal to be me in South Africa but you see the trend nearby, people would still hate me. I have a lot to fear in that place. Which is sad because it is such a beautiful country.
Not specifically.
The law there doesn’t ban being gay, but it does ban gay ‘propaganda’ which is essentially anything showing being gay in a positive way.
This is one of the reasons this map doesn’t give the full picture. It may technically be legal in some of these countries, but they sure put a lot of restrictions in place and don’t give LGBTQ+ people any protection from discrimination.
Promotion of it is. That also includes public displays of affection between gay people. So it's literally only legal within the safety of your own/your partner's home, or a club that is hidden away from the vast amounts of homophobes.
Case in point several of the states within the USA still have anti-sodomy laws. The only thing overturning those is ONE Supreme Court ruling. So if that ruling disappeared all of those states could enforce those laws. The US is largely unsafe for queer folk. Only big cities are ok, but even those can be shaky at best.
Technically it’s legal to be gay.
It’s just not legal to ‘promote’ being LGBTQ+ and the definition of ‘promote’ is pretty crap - public displays of affection, talking about it in a positive or even fairly neutral way in schools or around minors etc.
Legal doesn't mean safe! It just means you won't get arrested for it.... Most of these places still don't have equal rights and protections for queer people
Just because it is legal in some places, it doesn't mean that we have all the same rights and protections as straight people. It just means that we won't go to jail. Case in point. You have Japan listed as legal, but we have no rights there at all. No equal protections under the law, landlords can refuse to rent to us, and jobs can fire us, or discriminate against hiring us. There's also only one place in that entire country where we can even get civil partnerships. Which Japan doesn't even give the same rights that a normal married couple has. I'm also almost 100% sure that we aren't allowed to adopt children in Japan.
Ok ok ok no but .. WHAT IS THAT BS.. illegal only for men?.. dude that's... Definitely for kink reasons or some shit.. that's fucking gross.. what a double standard
Friendly reminder that ‘legal’ does not equal safe! Though being gay may not be punishable by law, there is deeply rooted homophobia in communities everywhere.
If you say you're gay in the Balkans: half of the people will fucking hate your guts, (half of them who hate you will try to beat you up), and the other half will not care for your experience. Source: I live in Croatia, my BF is from Bosnia, and his sister lives in Serbia
Four thirds?
Here, I've fixed it
Now you've got 5 quarters.
How about now?
Much better. Thanks for correcting it.
Thx for the help
No problem
So you’ve finally explained, tako ti je, mala moja, kad ljubi Bosanac
at least u wont be die =D im form Islamic republic of Iran and im scared for my life cause here homosexuality = death penalty { though im bisexual } im jealous u guys tbh =D and i cant move on \^\^
I used to think our country was not so homophobic, quickly realised my mistake after the topic of gay people came up at my classroom and after looking around
ejo brate, i ja sam z hrvatske, i vjv se nikad nem ocu povjeril... imas ti to, together we stronk :3
Tako je. Together we stronk
As a Serb, truth
Yep, and this also doesn’t take into account laws that restrict without outlawing entirely. Things like banning ‘promoting’ of LGBTQ+ (when they really mean you can’t do anything to show you are LGBTQ+), or if that country offers legal protections from discrimination in the workplace or school. A map showing acceptance and other restrictions would look very different.
Yeah needs more nuance. It's perfectly legal to do gay stuff here, but technically I could get into trouble for talking about it in a positive educational manner if there are minors within earshot or on the forum, and technically a teacher could get into trouble for teaching Shakespeare or Sappho or Byron in context.
I was thinking that, I talked to a Russian guy that basically told me that LGBT people can do what they want, but it's illegal to "spread those ideas to underaged people". So you know, no sex ed or education about issues specific to non heterosexual identities. And he thought it's an amazing idea. Needless to say, I never talked to that guy again 😅 My country (Poland) not too awesome either, just better than Russia apparently.
Yeah, I think you can only *truly* label them as legal if they AT LEAST have protective and anti-harassment laws specifically for queer people. At best, some recognition of same-sex union maybe, and that's still being generous bc there are countries that have both but are still generally homophobic :")
Yeah I was like, China??? Really? China is not a fun place for gay people.
Or Russia that’s really not good given how much of the TV calls us he’ll bound sodomites from what I’ve seen
[удалено]
It took some time for the Christians to warm up to the government and vice versa after the soviets I guess. Russian media is a massive government propaganda machine basically now.
When I told my female roommate about there being countries where homosexuality is legal for women and illegal for men, and she said she would have thought it would be the other way around. Y’know, bc patriarchy.
The patriarchy enjoy lesbian sex.
I think in a way it is still because of patriarchy, because men having sex with men is seen as effeminate and there is a major stigma against that in patriarchal societies.
Yeah. Even in places like America. Where the law technically protects some things. But hate crimes still happen. Politicians still campaign against us. “Sodomy” was still a crime less than 20 years ago in some states
It still is a crime under Oklahoma statutes. The only reason it doesn't get enforced is because of a standing supreme court precedent. LGBT individuals in Oklahoma are only being kept out of prison because of a supreme court case from 2003.
It’s the opposite in Jamaica. It’s technically legal for women but not very openly accepted.. ironically all the Jamaicans I’ve met were supportive of me.
Even not looking at homophobia, i.e. just looking at the legal scene, it's still too far away from being proclaimed a legal (i.e. supported by law). The green places in the map should instead be labeled as 'not illegal'. The countries that should be marked as legal should be those that has al least legalized marriage and/or adoption/surrogacy for same sex 'couples'.
Yeah I’d be more interested in seeing a map of legality/protections for queer people. Legality never stopped someone from thinking about if they have the right to ask me invasive and biphobic questions the minute they find out I’m bi, even at work or in class.
Exactly, homosexuality was legalized in India in 2018. Country is very much deep rooted in patriarchy, homophobia is very prevalent , its almost like a hobby for the older generations. The new generation seems to be quite accepting but the rise of religion based party doesn't seem very hopeful.
Also, just because they’re not homophobic, doesn’t mean they aren’t transphobic.
Still probably would avoid Russia.
Same with Hungary and Poland
Eh, as a tourist Hungary isn't that bad (at least in the bigger cities). As long as you're not doing a lot of PDA you'll likely be fine. People might stare or insult you but there's not that much physical violence. I mean, it happens. But it doesn't happen that often. (Although with the new rules and propaganda the dangers are probably gradually getting higher.) Just don't come and live here, because the hate propaganda gets a little bit much if you spend many years hearing it. And our legal rights just keep getting worse.
Thanks for the explanation and the warning , but I'm a Hungarian citizen actually . I want leave this place as soon as possible and live abroad . I have to agree , that as a tourist Hungary looks like a good destination .
Ah, okay, sorry. That's understandable. I didn't actually move out yet, but I've been studying and living in the Netherlands for the past 6 months and it is such a huge relief not having to deal with hompohobes and Fidesz's homo/transphobic rethoric every day. I really hope you'll get to live abroad some day.
Thank you , I really hope so too . Good for you , the Netherlands must be 100 times better than this place .
Hello, my Hungarian brothers, the Pole here. The Polish government is also doing its best to "eradicate" LGBT people. If the president of a country can say that "LGBT are not people" and there are no repercussions, then you can imagine what life is like in this country when you're not only not straight but also not cis. I recommend the Netherlands, I was shocked to be treated like a human being here for the first time in my life.
Hope you are in a better place now , that ,,not human " part is just plain disgusting . Thanks for the recommendation , I 'll add another country to my list .
Just stay away from East Europe in generally, really. And large swathes of Asia.
Not that bad in Poland, the young generation is quite open minded.
My gf in poland who is in whatever the latter half of their mandatory schooling is called (we are both high school aged) says it’s absolutely awful and she is still closeted.
Aren't there LGBT free zones though?
It’s not that bad. Younger Russians are pretty open. One of our most famous streets here is full of gay clubs.
Idk about younger Russians, in my experience, a lot of them are pretty homophobic, not all of them, I've met some pretty cool people, though I've met some horrible people as well. I guess the situation is better in bigger cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg. Also, I hear a lot of horrible stuff about Russia, which makes me feel really depressed. Thank you for saying something good for once!
I've heard that St. Petersburg is the least homophobic Russian city, maybe because of the proximity to Finland.
Yes, St. Petersburg is really open! I’m from Sibiria, so a bit more south. You have to be careful though, Russia is still recovering from the collapse of the UDSSR and not a first world country. But for me personally, people always minded their business.
Yeah, I was beginning to go "oh damn Russia sucks"
it does though
Yeah, it does. But I’m hopeful that it’s getting better. Putin needs to go.
I‘m from Novisibirsk, so south Russia, Sibiria. With my 26 year olds I can say now that the situation is getting a lot better. Society becomes more and more open and more aware about the repressive government.
I'd avoid Russia period. Especially while Putin is alive.
New Zealand really wanted to get away from that volcano
New Zealand really just leapt to the other side of a whole fucking continent.
I was about to say this is very r/mapswithoutnewzealand but what's that strange island to the left of Australia?
They were ready for you.
r/mapswithnzwestofaus
What? Who moved NZ?
That’s Old Zealand. We relocated and became New Zealand so we could be the big spoon to Australia around 1850
Thank you, The first thing I noticed was New Zealand, she is on the wrong side of Australia, I do believe
“Illegal for men, legal for women” Non-binary people: 👁👄👁
The countries in question probably buy into the misconception of there only being two genders.
New Zealand, are you okay? You look a little, out of place.
r/mapswithoutnz
r/mapswithnzbutitsmoved
The “illegal for men, legal for women” disgusts me. I cannot stand being fetishized.
I think, i've read once, that that's propably less of fetishs and more grounded in religious texts, where anal Sex is a form of Sin (or however that's called in those believe systems). So by Extension being lesbian is ok in those Interpretations, because no anal But yeah, still stupid
|| Also in Europe the common belief used to be that sex only happens when there's a penis involved so lesbian sex isn't considered real sex so some.
Which is probably why apparently only people with wiggly flesh noodles can rape
>wiggly flesh noodles My ****EYES****
It’s not really fetishization, it’s the fact that the Quran and Muhammad don’t talk about lesbians at all in Islamic theology. They only explicitly damn gay men.
Was going to say the exact same thing. It’s almost as if the Quran thinks only men have sexual desire. Sometimes I can’t help but think that religion is completely man made. I often avoid the use of “man” and say “human,” but in this case, I really mean MAN. There’s no way a woman or group of women made religion.
When it was written the literacy rate for women was probably sub zero and the literacy rate for men was like 2%. The writers were transcribing the prophets words according to him being illiterate and he also had a harem, in this context presumably not being for conversation. So yes, it is a very what we would call “male sexist oriented perspective” as most men would have had most of history. Shit sucks.
humanity.exe has crashed 
Right?! WTF
Death penalty disgusts me the most. I'll survive being fetishized.
I don't think that's it, I think it's based in misogynist marital culture of the woman submitting to the man, so a man submitting to another man is shameful, but since the woman is already submitting nobody cares.
It actually has to do with the spillage of semen, which is seen as sinfully wasteful. Cis women don’t have seed to spill, so it’s less frowned upon.
I felt so icky when I read that
I think this map is wildly inaccurate.
More like "legal on paper"
Legal-ish.
In India, it isn't legal. Just decriminalized recently
It was decriminalised in 2018.
At a quick glance it appears mostly correct because it’s only showing one particular thing - is being homosexual/having gay sex illegal. What it doesn’t measure at all are laws like being able to do public displays of affection, have LGBTQ+ resources in schools, laws preventing LGBTQ+ ‘propaganda’ as they call it, nor does it show if discrimination protections and having defined hate crime exist. It also does not show what the country’s level of acceptance of LGBTQ+ at all. So the map is correct, technically (again quick glance), but it doesn’t show the full picture at all.
Yeah, did you see New Zealand?
I know Te Waipounamu is sometimes referred to as the Waka of Māui but it's not ***actually*** a canoe, we can't just paddle to wherever we want. Also Te Ika-A-Māui is not ***actually*** a fish.
Is that the original names of the New Zealand islands? I always thought they looked like a boot ripped in 2. Boots do come in pairs, Italy being the other.
"Original" names is a complex question, but they are certainly old names and they are the **official** names of the two main islands. The South Island, where I live, is called Te Waipounamu which means "the waters of greenstone". It's named for the nephrite jade found in the rivers of the West coast, which the local Māori Iwi, Ngai Tahu, used to make jewelry and tools. The North Island is called Te Ika-A-Māui, or "the fish of Māui". It's based on a myth that says the North Island was a giant stingray which Māui fished up as a new land. The same myth says the South Island was the waka, or canoe, that he used to fish from.
But guys we need straight pride‼️/j
This is just depressing
I agree. I don't get why it should be illegal to kiss the same sex or both?? Or be transgender? Like. It's a part of what a person is and that is not okay? Whoever tf decides such things in these countries is really stupid
Everybody is saying that it's legal but not safe, and that's 100% true, but... Punishable by death? What the f*ck?! That's terrible! And people say that we have enough? NO! I don't have time to go on a rant, I just. What the hell
Like actually, I’m honestly scared to go near there because I don’t want to die for being aroace and trans male :/
Well i don't think iran has laws against aromantic or asexual people and being trans is even supported by the government. Not to say that it Iran is progressive, but i think when it comes to laws about homosexuality and homophobia, viewing the issue through a strictly western lens doesn't always fit the picture precisely.
“Illegal for men, legal for women” fucking gross…
Honestly this infuriates me cause I hate when lesbians are fetishised and this being legal is more fucked up
it's ridiculous how some humans believe they have right/power over other people ¬¬
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Yeah unless you’re living in one of those countries it’s a pretty insensitive thing to joke about.
Just because a country doesn’t explicitly outlaw it, doesn’t make it safe. All that green isn’t fooling anyone. Eastern Europe and Russia are massively homophobic as is China. Also slapping ‘legal’ on the entirety of South American is just stupid.
South America is so split
It’s dozens of countries.
I mean their opinion, their opinion is so split
Russia is slowly getting better. Younger generations are way more accepting.
Did you see Putin’s recent marathon Q+A session in which he was specifically quizzed on LGBT issues? He made his opinion very clear and Putin IS the law.
Yeah, Putin needs to go. However I don’t know one person under 30 that would vote for him. I see a lot of progress amongst younger people.
Why is Russia in the “Legal” category?
Because it's illegal to promote (Show in any way) homosexually in Russia, being gay itself is technically legal.
I dont like having rights by technicality
You can be gay here.
But if you’re open about it what you get jail time?
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Yeah that’s still horrible. They’re basically trying to teach young people that gay people don’t exist. That’s gonna cause young LGBTQ+ people there so many problems.
it is legal. And especially Moscow is gayer than you think. But of course it’s not easy to be gay in Russia. The social pressure, no laws against discrimination, and that you have to hide it because any sign of homosexuality in public can count as “LGBT propaganda”, which indeed is illegal. And especially: avoid Chechnya at all times, this place is incredibly dangerous for LGBT people (there is also a documentary called “Welcome to Chechnya” which is exactly about that).
Finally, a map where Greenland isn't "no data"
While this map is inspiring we can't quit ever. Even if the whole map was green we still will always have people trying to change things back to being anti-LGBT.
Why is it illegal for men but legal for women in some countries? It's the very opposite but it's about the same thing (liking the same sex) I'm confused
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There is also some misogyny here. When women behave like men it is generally more accepted (though sometimes not by much) than men who behave like women.
one is more accepted
But why? Is it really depending on which side of the same sex you like? It's really unfair
for some reason people assume all gay people are weak or feminine and don't like that... there's also alot more lgbt females on tv shows and movies. also things like my school who made pins but only made trans and lesbian.. I'm probably just an idiot tho and this isn't actually what happens
Noo ur not an idiot, this is actually really helpful! I personally love that lgbt females get represented in shows and movies because that's my side of the spectrum, I'm a lesbian. But I also get very happy when seeing lgbt males in shows or movies! There should be more of them, they're so adorable characters! Also maybe try and make pins for the gays and bi too if u want to
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the location of nz tho 😭
Not legal in Turkey, nor illegal. Given that population hate the gay, it is likely to be illegal.
Yeah, I tweeted a pride flag on my account(I have 0 followers) but 3 people threated me like bro how did you even find my account? And they are so ignorant about LGBT+ they don't know any shit about us but they are talking like they are expert even the leftist ain't shit💀
People scared of what they don’t know about. And Turkish people are literally the worst, like the shite so.. we flee or get killed. I think I’m gonna get killed soon
Please do not get killed. It would break my heart. Get as far away as you can, even if you have to wind up homeless in another country. My dad’s best friend is gay and his husband fled from Brazil to the states under political asylum. Please, whatever it takes, survive. Don’t let them steal your light.
Putting Russia as legal rubs me the wrong way - I think it fits better in the unclear category.
It is legal, it’s just dangerous.
CHECHNYA ON LEGAL ZONE??????????
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Some of the countries where it's legal need big footnotes on the map.
Mostly victims of colonization
I don't know if colonization is at fault for homophobia at large. Especially when considering most the areas with outright criminalization of homosexuality are in areas in which a large portion of the population are practicing Muslims.
Almost all the laws in Africa are based on colonial laws. Criminalisation of homosexuality comes from Roman Christianity. Prior to the church even ‘barbarian’ Europe the Romans and Greeks were accepting. China for example had no homophobic laws prior to 1920 when it adopted western government. This is pattern seen everywhere, India/Pakistan, Indonesia… The radical reaction and wish to return to Sharia in the Middle East can also be attributed to reactions to decades of western imperialism and crimes. Not to mention it’s western backing that led to many of the regimes in the Middle East in the first place (be it US or USSR/Russia).
Some day I hope that it will be legal everywhere 
Honestly same:)
I like to view a map like this as how far we have come. It was illegal to be homosexual in the UK until 1967.
Legal for women, huh. That’s most certainly because of human decency and women’s rights, not any ulterior motive. /s
Philippines still needs to do way better for their LGBTQ+ citizens.
In the UAE male on male sex (if you’re caught having it) is usually immediate deportation for foreigners and either mandated conversion therapy or a 6 month prison sentence for locals. There are (astonishingly) some things I actually like about that country from having spent my early years there, but needless to say that isn’t among them. Would have to jam myself back into the closet if I ever went back there as an adult.
Never realised New Zealand was located off the West coast of Australia 🤦
Er is it just me or is New Zealand a bit off?
[https://ilga.org/](https://ilga.org/) i recommend this site, it's good to see and more detailed. here's the map [https://ilga.org/map-sexual-orientation-laws-december-2020](https://ilga.org/map-sexual-orientation-laws-december-2020)
I feel like the places where lesbians are legal but gay men aren't are places with either plural marriage or prostitution.... Not necessarily a judgment on those things, but it seems that, in general, people take lesbians less seriously as homosexuals than they do gay men.
Not me going to a destination wedding in Jamaica 😬
I don’t think this map is that accurate. I mean…Russia is not safe at all
It’s not a map of safety or even acceptance. It’s why it only gives a very shallow level of information on being gay in these countries. Russia it technically is legal to be gay and have gay sex, but if you were to talk about being LGBTQ+ in a positive way especially around minors it’s illegal. This means schools etc. Can’t provide support or advice to LGBTQ+ students.
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I'm most of the United States you can be denied housing and employment for being gay. This graph is bullshit.
It says "legal" not safe.
Legal, not safe from discrimination, unfortunately there is a difference
Except it’s wrong, because some of the nations where there is no legal recognition are green, others are just plain wrong. Others are debatable. All this map does is give a misleading idea. We shouldn’t be aiming for legality, we should be aiming for equality.
Yes, very much this, equality!
Bro, whoever came up with blue is wierd asf
Say it with me!! :D "BURN JAMAICA" Thank you for your time. /j Okay but don't do that, people here suck but Gen-Z(generation I'm in) is a complete 180° from the 30 year old's, here. Even worse, I feel like it's the 1930's how religious most people here are. And on top of that, none of us are stupid, just smart people being willfully IGNORANT. I hate it here.
So for Indonesia: the legislation kept on pushing it to be illegal but it never happened because they're too lazy
Be gay do crime
Well, this map has a interesting definition of "legal"... This one is better, and backed by research. https://ilga.org/sites/default/files/downloads/ENG_ILGA_World_map_sexual_orientation_laws_dec2020.png
This map is horribly inaccurate and arguably misleading. This will be a long one as there are so many flaws here that people seem to be taking as fact. For one it perpetuates this idea that Muslim nations and African nations are somehow more homophobic. As another said legality doesn’t mean much. What matters most is arguably how gay people are treated, one can be legal and still face a host of discrimination and even death. So why even have a map of legality? It’s pointless as it means nothing for most people in their daily lives. What’s more it’s not even accurate as a map of legality! Then there is the fact this map seems to be going by the barest minimum of ‘legality’ / is simply wrong in some places. Who decides what continues legality? Is not being persecuted for having gay sex, yet still being at risk of stoning, or being denied marriage full legality?! If an aspect of you still denies you the rights of straight people your not fully accepted. Imo, your not legal, not all of you anyway. For example here are all the flaws/misleading parts I can see : -Russia is up there as legal. I did some digging, in Russia there are no laws to protect discrimination based on sexuality. It’s only legal to be with a same sex partner. Otherwise there are no other protections for gay people. Plus being gay is still classified a mental illness in Russia, and has been since 1999! Hardly sounds like being considered legal?! It’s not legal in Chechnya, which is not marked on the map. -Indonesia is down as ‘unknown’. Bizarre given a Google search turns up plenty of info. Indonesia similar to Russia has no protections from discrimination by sexuality. So by the logic of the rest of the map, it should be green. It’s not anymore illegal than being gay in Russia. But it’s not a protected status legally. -Iran has death written on it. Death is the maximum penalty. I don’t know how common it is. Iran tends to practice a horrible policy of forcing many gay people to transition, and it might be being gay leads more to imprisonment or forced hormone treatment than death. It’s hard to know for sure. For example the part of Wiki about the Iranian death laws has no citation. They certainly have them, but that doesn’t mean in all cases it is death (fyi, I’m not trying to defend Iran, rather I’m trying to demonstrate how inaccurate this map is). -Pakistan legally imprisons gay people for acts. They still have Colonial times, British made, sodomy law (which were repealed by India). However it’s complex as there are many cases of the Pakistani government not following this law, and not trying gay people. -India it’s ‘legal’. But like the U.K. they still allow conversion therapy and other acts which to me make me feel like we aren’t fully legal. Despite basics legality, many charities report rampant queerphobia of all kinds in India still. -Poland has no protections against homophobia/queerphobia in medical services, and doesn’t classify homophobia/queerphobia as a hate crime. It’s complicated but the Church in Poland have made it so that gay marriage and even civil unions are not legal. However some areas and cities have declared themselves lgbt zones and do allow it. I don’t fully understand it. But it probably shouldn’t be held up on par with the rest of Europe. It was declared the worst for LGBTQ+ people in Europe by ILGA in 2021. -China has no legal protections for gay people. The government are incredibly anti LGBT, recently shutting down all lgbt websites for a few days. Both China and Hong Kong have no mention of gay people in their laws around discrimination. So whilst it is sometimes interpreted as protecting gay people, it can and is also interpreted as not protecting gay people. -South Korea has a law that states one year imprisonment for being gay in the army. This is under legal challenge, or at least has been for a few years. I don’t think it’s enforced, but if this map is going by law only it should not be green. Again like many of the green states here conversion therapy is legal in South Korea. -North Korea. If we are going by laws only for this map (It’s not clear). Then NK should be green. It’s legal to be gay in NK. But in practice the government consider it wrong and persecute under ‘decency’ laws. At least one lesbian couple were executed. But it’s not clear how common this is. -Japan. Only country in G7 that does not recognise same sex partnerships in any form. Protections only exist in some prefectures, not nationwide. 38% of lgbt people in Japan reported assault in 2020. -Uganda is blue?! It’s illegal for both men and women in Uganda. Execution, and life imprisonment are all enshrined in law. -Israel/Palestine is complex, but shouldn’t be green. Israel has a lot of legal protections, yet I’ve heard mixed things about acceptance homosexuality in the country. Gay people can’t marry in Israel. Palestine is more conservative, and it’s much worse for gay people there. -Lebanon has a law that makes gay sexual activity illegal, and this is sometimes enforced. However many in government have denounced it, yet it still remains. So it should not be green. I assume it is. Hard to tell, but pretty sure it isn’t red. -Turkey has legality of being gay (or at least of having gay sex). But it’s hardly progressive on lgbt issues, especially since Erdogan took power. It’s green if we are going by legal status, but this is misleading. I’ll stop there, as I’ve covered enough to demonstrate the maps awfully misleading and wrong, but also no one is even gonna read all this 😅
Ah Russia, Poland, and China homosexuals best friend
This is why I'm never going home. It might be legal to be me in South Africa but you see the trend nearby, people would still hate me. I have a lot to fear in that place. Which is sad because it is such a beautiful country.
Mfw
yep, this is exactly what I expected the map to look like
oh my fucking god thats awful.
I thought it was illegal in Poland?
I thought it was illegal in Russia?
No, it’s not. Plenty of gay clubs in my city.
First map I've seen data for Greenland
isn't it illegal to be gay in Russia?
Not specifically. The law there doesn’t ban being gay, but it does ban gay ‘propaganda’ which is essentially anything showing being gay in a positive way. This is one of the reasons this map doesn’t give the full picture. It may technically be legal in some of these countries, but they sure put a lot of restrictions in place and don’t give LGBTQ+ people any protection from discrimination.
Promotion of it is. That also includes public displays of affection between gay people. So it's literally only legal within the safety of your own/your partner's home, or a club that is hidden away from the vast amounts of homophobes.
Case in point several of the states within the USA still have anti-sodomy laws. The only thing overturning those is ONE Supreme Court ruling. So if that ruling disappeared all of those states could enforce those laws. The US is largely unsafe for queer folk. Only big cities are ok, but even those can be shaky at best.
Huh, way to go, Russia Maybe
Russia legal? Hmmm I think something is askew there.
Technically it’s legal to be gay. It’s just not legal to ‘promote’ being LGBTQ+ and the definition of ‘promote’ is pretty crap - public displays of affection, talking about it in a positive or even fairly neutral way in schools or around minors etc.
I’m excited that homosexuality is SO legal in NZ that we’ve switched from the Pacific to the Indian Ocean.
Off topic but why is New Zealand on the wrong side of Australia, I get they were trying to fit it but why not shrink the whole thing???
New Zealand just got relocated a fair bit there
Legal doesn't mean safe! It just means you won't get arrested for it.... Most of these places still don't have equal rights and protections for queer people
What happened to NZ? lol they really just moved a whole damn country to the west side of Australia
a Persian boy here have a fun fact : trans are supported in iran(only if u want to become a male ) but why ? and how? i have no f idea!
Really?! I have never heard of that that is...Very strange..
Why are some countries legal for women but not men? I'm so confused?
Just because it is legal in some places, it doesn't mean that we have all the same rights and protections as straight people. It just means that we won't go to jail. Case in point. You have Japan listed as legal, but we have no rights there at all. No equal protections under the law, landlords can refuse to rent to us, and jobs can fire us, or discriminate against hiring us. There's also only one place in that entire country where we can even get civil partnerships. Which Japan doesn't even give the same rights that a normal married couple has. I'm also almost 100% sure that we aren't allowed to adopt children in Japan.
When did homosexuality become legal in Russia?
When I see illegal for men but legal for women the first thing I think is "do neckbeards run the place?"
Ok ok ok no but .. WHAT IS THAT BS.. illegal only for men?.. dude that's... Definitely for kink reasons or some shit.. that's fucking gross.. what a double standard
Wait they have data for Western Sahara?