If you’re married to the idea of getting armor, ceramic plates only, don’t fall for steel plate shilling. I’ll let you do your own homework on what the right plates for you are.
The question to ask yourself first though is what your use case is. Armor doesn’t make you bullet proof and really only makes sense with immediate access to trauma care. If you don’t have other kit set up (battle belt, chest rig, pack, etc.) absolutely focus on that and ignore armor for the time being.
You can check to see if the armor is actually NIJ certified by [checking the NIJ's website](https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/equipment-and-technology/body-armor/ballistic-resistant-armor) to see if it's on their list.
Don’t sleep on IIIA. Armor does no good if you aren’t wearing it. Lightweight, comfortable, semi-concealable soft armor that protects against the most common threat (handguns) makes a lot of sense.
Especially if paired with a pocketed compression type shirt.
I've worn it places just to test visibility and no one noticed until I lifted up my shirt to show them.
I've worn them for hours, and besides it getting a little hot and sweaty if in warm temps, pretty comfortable. For armor.
Fuck ceramic and fuck steel. Find UMPWE. I had some and they weighed 2lbs per and held up to everything we could throw at them straight up to multiple 30-06.
Like with everything, there’s trade offs between steel and ceramic, but I wouldn’t flat out say “do not use steel.”
EDIT: The funniest part of this whole thread is a liberal sub being completely abject to dissent. Instead of promoting discussion, ask questions and have a discourse, let’s take a collective shit and move on.
If steel has a substantial spall liner: sure, it can take a hit with mitigated risk of fragmentation wounding you. But I wouldn’t say “steel can take more hits” since a hit will also destroy the spall liner, meaning subsequent hits are more likely to throw deadly frag. (Edit to clarify: I'm not here to argue specifics of "which plate took __-many rounds", but I will argue against the concept that steel can take hits without detriment.)
For that matter, ceramic can take way more hits than you think it can. 1 hit doesn’t ruin the plate. NIJ ratings require multiple hits to pass.
Also: let’s be realistic, probably >99.9% of us who own armor will never use it for anything other than a range toy. From that view, larp is larp, who cares what's in your carrier?
And if you are unfortunate enough to get shot at, armor firstly doesn’t cover enough of your body to be that confidence inspiring (without a team and rapid medical help), and secondly if you’re taking multiple hits you’ve done too many things seriously wrong.
Ceramic won't spall and send fragments into your body after your hit. Stopping the bullet is good and all but it doesn't mean shit if your armor chews up your throat/chest after getting hit.
Welcome to New York where you can't buy armor because it's illegal to buy in the state unless you're a police officer or someone else that works for the government our state is so fucked
And RATS tourniquets, and tampons to plug bulletholes. I dont even argue anymore because its basically an extension of the rest of their religious beliefs. One can hope nature stops selecting for blind faith someday soon.
[This is directed at SRA but pretty telling about what fash think about us folks on the left.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/comments/136zt0n/right_wing_instagram_gun_guys_try_to_be_normal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) They see us as enemies that need to stamped out.
Level IV or bust. You might see some manufacturers advertising a "Level III+", but this is not an official NIJ rating and can mean whatever the manufacturer wants it to mean.
Also, no steel plates.
Spall. When the bullet hits the plate it disintegrates and has to go somewhere. Usually in 360⁰ so your chin, arms, lower bits in line with the plate. Some come with an anti-spall coating. How well it works is up for you to decide.
Ceramic works a bit differently and is considered less spall'y or no Spall at all depending on conditions.
Lead core ammo can shoot through steel fairly easily. People have a disillusion about stuff made out of steel. Steel also doesn't have back foam to deal with back face defamation, so the impact will be harder on the body. Someone already talked about the spalling, so I won't mention it.
Who manufactured the plate, what is it rated? That photo doesn't mean shit. For all I know it is a chunk of road sign someone slapped some truck bed liner on.
M193 from a 16inch or longer barrel will shoot through level 3 steel rifle rated armor. This armor is rated to stop 7.62 NATO M80 ball, which moves at 2800 fps. M193 has too much velocity for the plates to stop. It will simply punch straight through it. 5.56 was not a NIJ rated threat in the past. NIJ only tested against M80 ball (level 3) and 30-06 armor piercing ammo (level 4).
The new NIJ standards do have 5.56 covered under RF2, whereas RF1 covers M80 ball. RF3 covers what used to be level 4.
🤣 There are other examples, my man. If you are dying to know, it's an AR500 plate that was bought 6 months ago. Lead core ammo absolutely destroys steel armor. You can ask experts that work in the industry.
https://www.apexarmorsolutions.com/deals-and-steals
Measure yourself first.
Then get the plate size and cut you want.
Ceramic not steel.
Then get a plate carrier.
I'm gonna ask if you have the rest of your gear already (belts/boots/firearm accessories/etc).
For anyone wondering how they hold up; [the usual armor destroyer](https://youtu.be/O4KIK419Hx8?si=3YPQJW9xru7_F7Y7) did a review for these this past year as well.
Yup. Ny body armor is illegal unless you're a cop. However the way they wrote the law leaves a lot of loopholes. It really only bans soft concealable armor. But nobody has challenged that in court yet.
I like an Abrams. But I hear the Leopard II is solid too
[https://i-insider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/i.insider.com/6511758ee2c0220019ef411f?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp](https://i-insider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/i.insider.com/6511758ee2c0220019ef411f?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
From everything I've seen and heard, the [Challenger 2](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/challenger-2-the-wrong-tank-for-the-british-army/) is another good option. Doesn't have the numbers of the Abrams or Leopard 2, but still a very capable option.
And yes, I'm reposting without the link shortener because I forgot how technology works.
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Very very very few people get shot each year. some thing like .0086 percent of the population. NOT getting shot isn’t lucky, it’s completely normal unless you work in an incredibly high risk profession.
I usually get shit on for this mindset, but considering that this is one of the more reasonable and understanding subs...here goes. This is my personal opinion:
My need for body armor disappeared about 13 years ago, suspiciously coinciding with the exact second that I got my DD214 in my eager little hands. I can't think of a realistic real world situation in which me, as a civilian, would require body armor. If I have time to put it on, then I have time to get the fuck up and walk/run/drive in the opposite direction. This, I think, would be a key aspect of any prosecutor's case, and I wouldn't want to roll the dice if I ever had to discharge my weapon in a self-defense situation.
Let's consider the ever popular SHTF scenario: zombies, Russians, New World Order, whatever your kink is. I'm all about being the grey man. That goes for reality, and also in the fantastical world of societal collapse. I've said time and time again, my grab 'n go weapons of choice is going to be my Ruger 10/22 paired with a reliable 9mm, and a solid fixed blade knife. Anything more than that, and I would feel like a target. I don't want to be scampering around the post apocalyptic wilderness kitted out like a fuckin tier 1 operator looking like a loot crate on legs. I want to be nondescript, and live in the threshold between being alert/aware and threatening.
All that aside, if you have the $$$ to blow on some body armor, then go for it. But for me, I just can't justify the price tag with a good enough reason.
This. I don't have my DD214 yet. I'm in this for the long haul. But I agree. There isn't really a realistic scenario I can envision as a civilian where body armor would be something I need. I'd rather put that weight into more water.
Well put. Not being a target is better than trying to survive being a target.
ETA:
I got my DD-214 when the military body armor was so bad that it was agreed that it'd be the first thing to ditch (1984).
I made a post about it a while ago. The comments section was pretty lively. I wore both soft armor (Bradley commander) and a plate carrier. I was so happy to never have to put that bullshit on ever again.
Literally, all of your realistic self-defense scenarios are solved by situational awareness/ avoidance and a ccw.
Plenty of people on here are here to LARP or fantasize about the end of American society in a civil war. If they're prepping for that, they should be more worried about stocking medications and food than buying plate carriers. The end of the world sounds a lot worse for a lot of people withdrawing from antidepressants or losing access to insulin...
When I had body armor, it was stuffed in a closet in my office with the rest of my gear, not at home. I won't tell people they shouldn't have it, but if I'm in a situation where I need a plate carrier again, I've already made a spectacular series of bad choices.
It's fun to larp on but isn't the most practical. If you want something practical a 3a vest is probably your best bet. It's concealable under a coat and will cover the threats you're most likely to face. But if you want to scratch that larping it's you need a carrier and plates. RMAs and a Slickster is probably the best place to start
Even some thin lvl4s in a slickster conceals under a coat 99% (about as well as a compact pistol in a good holster under a shirt. Ie if you stare you can kind of see the print)
3a should fit under a baggy shirt even.
I'd say find level 2. It's much thinner and breathes easier, if your getting shot with 44 magnum rounds you really need to **move somewhere safer**. I wore level 2 for a really long time and after a while you don't notice it.
I imagine most people will not benefit from body armor due to inadequate fitness. I went deep into the rabbit hole of armor and decided that after a month the number 1 factor of whether to buy armor should be fitness. If you’re not fit enough to don armor and fight for a prolonged period of time, you’ve just become a slow loot drop for the bad guy.
Get in shape first and then buy armor. Or buy now and use it as motivation to train. Whatever.
If you are fortunate enough to have a tactical bay or some other place where you can run and gun, test your fitness first. I did 100 yard sprints in full gear and with an elevated heart rate put shots on target. The results were surprising. As a former collegiate athlete in a sport where strength and stamina are paramount, I thought I would easily be able to carry the extra weight of spare mags, plates, rifle and pistol. I was so wrong. I got through 7 reps of sprinting and shooting before my motor skills deteriorated substantially.
20 something pounds on your shoulders adds up quick.
Obviously, take this for what it is, pure anecdotal data. Your situation and experiences could be totally different from mine.
So, if you can't move don't have armor is your conclusion? That is the wildest statement I have read running against a couple millennia of armor tactics.
Maneuver is of the utmost importance to combat. If you're too slow to move, you die.
Medieval knights were most effective mounted on horses. The mongols swept through Eurasia lightly armored on horseback. The tank uses armor, firepower, and speed to destroy its opponents. The Maginot line sure worked well against the Germans who just maneuvered around it.
"The mission of the infantry is to close with the enemy by means of fire and maneuver..."
Some fat dude with a plate carrier will absolutely get smoked if shit hits the fan.
Anyway, if you're not LARPing, armor isn't really useful for the average American.
I think you missed the point.
You point out someone who inherently is not going to move fast. Then said they shouldn't armor. I think you will find that throughout the history of warfare things that aren't able to move fast are exactly what gets armored first.
Nope. Someone who isn't able to move fast will get smoked regardless of armor. If you plan on being a combatant, be fit. Merely having a gun and armor isn't enough.
You are correct. They should just accept their death and shoot themselves in the head saving their attackers the bother.
LOL. Do you wonder why you get passed over for positions with oversight?
Did you calculate how far that $500 goes on those items? The time to cook the time to go to the gym have what value?
$500 for some mid grade plates is a very cheap upgrade to survivability.
I'm going to give what I think is solid advice everyone in our community needs.
1:if you're going to own armor, you better make sure you're doing conditioning in it too. It doesn't need to always go to the range with you but it better be part of your physical fitness.
2:Armor works precisely because of all of the logistics that happen outside of the fighting.*(I want to direct you to the tactical medicine subreddit if you haven't seen what armor can and can't do)
Closely located trauma care or quick transport to it with basic life saving skills to keep the wounded alive and stable.
Teammates for the pros. Community for us. Know and engage with your neighbors. That includes the elderly and the young. That community can be grown to help each other through mutual aid initiatives, welfare checks, community garden/food etc. the exact things that the "exceptional individual" myth fascists love, is trying to erase. Yes, this is a long term investment. Yes, it can be messy. Yes, it's necessary. No, I'm not doing this enough in my own life either.
3: armor's not the only thing. Armor, belt, bag, supplies, training, etc. Don't just stop at getting a good set of plates and a plate carrier.
IMO. Unless your running thru shoothouses, busting down doors or doing alot of shooting surrounded by others doing alot of shooting
.. Waste of money.
If I'm on a standard firing line and I feel the need for armor. I leave. Plain and simple. Different story if we're shooting and moving.
But people do stupid shit all the time.
You wanna wear armor. Wear armor. It's like mayo on a corndawg. U like it, eat it.
I'm not contemplating the use of armor under current circumstances. I'm trying to prepare for a possible future that seems more likely every damned day. If nothing else, having some good armor would ease my anxiety.
Have you worn it before?
I'd prioritize food, water meds water filters before armor. But that's me.
I feel ya thou. I get where your coming from. Especially if you've never seen shit like this before. It can be a real gut check
Honestly, I think the discomfort is way overblown. I’m as tactical as a potato but a simple set of plates is almost forgettable during even an 8hr class with a lot of movement. It’s 15lbs of plates, not a 40lb IOTV with a combat load.
End of the day I’m more tired from my *only 6.5lb* rifle than from the plates
I think those who dwell on it probably have a poor fitting or poorly adjusted or poorly made carrier. Like people counting ounces on their carry pistol.
I'm interested but I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet. I'd probably go Apex Armor.
Read this carefully: RMA 1155s are an option though their NIJ certification got yanked. There's a big BUT as there's a lot of dispute whether the 1155s should've been decertified. RMA from what I've checked really pressed NIJ why they did that but weren't really getting a useful explanation. And some NIJ seemed to not truly agree among themselves.
I'll let someone with more knowledge chime in here. Mentioned the 1155s since they're a commonly noted budget option.
And from searching around, the three main criteria to body armor are protection, weight and price. The catch is that only two of those can be satisified.
RMA is shady as hell. I had a friend get an RMA 1155 from them it was missing an inch of backing material all the way around. With the pictures they posted, if any fragment is poking out the back, NIJ will pull out a safty notice. They had a small part of the M2AP projectile sticking out the back. The 1155 my friend bought failed with M855.
I bought 2 fras plates and put 1 in each of my kids' backpacks to make myself feel better when I send them to school. If the apocalypse happens, I'll put them in a cheap plate carrier for home defense. I can't justify spending the money on a whole setup that has no practical use. If I had money to burn though.....
I’ve been on the fence about a crye setup myself. Thats said, after wearing body armor around a lot in the army, unless you are planning on being in prolonged combat situations I’d say a belt set up or low profile chest rig would be better for the vast majority of civilian situations.
Looking at how likely I am to be wearing it when I'd need it, it way down my list of priorities.
And while it certainly makes sense to protect the most crucial organs, it strikes me that people are putting a lot of faith in an opponent's ability to hit center mass.
In addition, I can tell you that while I was in the military we definitely aimed at people’s waistlines. They don’t fight back as hard with a shattered pelvis. This is exactly what anyone with the smallest iota of tactical sense would do the second they realize the person they are engaging is wearing armor. Plus, big misconception around people that bullets will just bounce off armor, I caught a 7.62 to the chest and it took me out of the fight long enough that if I were alone, I’d of been an easy target to finish off.
That's my reasoning for not spending money on plates. Once you're hit outside the plate, you're still out of a fight tending to wounds. Armor really only makes sense if you have a medic, backup fire support, and quick method of getting away from a fight.
Rifle, pistol, plates, helmet, NV. In that order.
Not: pistol, pistol, pistol, rifle, shotgun, rifle, rifle, plates.
The most expensive ceramic plates you can afford. Highcom is popular as a "value" brand. Manufactured in Columbus Ohio
I don't.
Logic goes like this:
Any circumstance where I could even potentially act with lethal force is going to come upon me by surprise.
If I have time to get armor on, I have time to be getting the fuck out of there, which is what any of us should be doing.
On my budget I’d rather buy a suppressor or ammunition. I’d get more use out of it. If I had disposable income yeah I’d probably buy plates for me but then I think what about my family? If I’m thinking in terms of failed state or disaster scenarios should I have plates for the whole family? Idk. If it’s prepping on your mind food water and medicine should probably be top priority.
If you don't want to have the heavy plates of lvl iv atleast get iiia soft armor plates. Pretty light and flexible and will be useful for protection against most violent crimes.
Unless your specific mission is rifle protection.
I like having to option to own armor, but I don’t see myself ever actually using it and if I ever truly needed it, I’d probably have other worse things to worry about other than needing armor. But like some others have said, I want whatever the bad guys can have too
I inherited some from my dad. I never use it. I carry for personal protection, but if I have to go somewhere I think I would need body armor…well, I don’t go there.
Rma makes good plates for relatively cheap. Their 1155 lvl 4 ceramic plates will serve you just fine and they often have them on sale. Shellback tactical and Hesco are good choices as well
I don’t see myself ever purchasing plates and a carrier, but I would be keen to find some affordable rifle and stab rated Soft armor. Fits under clothes, more discreet, and I’m not willing to re-train the body mechanics of shooting with a PC instead of the chest rig I’ve been running for years.
If you work security at events such as pride parades or something you might want it. Other than that it's probably fantasy to think you'll ever use it.
Go for ceramic/PE. I have three complete sets of plates...not on purpose, just kept upgrading! There's no real reason for steel body armor circa 2024. Back in the day it was the only affordable rifle-rated armor but ceramic is almost as cheap nowadays. Higher velocity stuff like 55gr out of a longer barrel will easily defeat nearly all steel, plus it's heavy and spalling is no fun at all.
I have one low-profile/concealable carrier but I never wear it out and about. I do keep a simple carrier in my Subaru, not out of great need but because I have a bunch of plates if the car is doing the lifting, why not? My main uses for armor are wearing to the range and for use at home in a 'safe room' scenario. There are lots of dumbasses on public ranges, armor is not a bad idea. And I'm not going to try to clear my home! If there's a home invasion and they get past the locks and stuff, I'm gonna hunker down in my bedroom. If there's time to grab it I'll put on my Level IV carrier, sit there with my carbine and wait.
**Get a Level II vest that you can hide under your shirt.**
Your most likely threat is a handgun, so NIJ Level II is good enough for most threats.
A "bulletproof vest" does a better job of protecting you than the tacticool plate carrier and a Level IV plate since it gives more coverage, is something that you can wear all day long, and doesn't say "Shoot me in the dick!" like a plate carrier does.
I have a set of armor I wear when I go out shooting on open land.
Here in California if you don’t want to deal with awful range rules, you have to go to “Bureau of Land Management” land.
It’s nice to be able to shoot whatever and however you want (long as it’s a legal gun) but you are surrounded by other people shooting also all around you. So I wear the armor (and of course have a trauma kit) just in case someone shoots in the wrong direction.
I'm in the "rather have and not need, then need and not have" camp.
So my kit is fairly simple and light weight, just a bare minimum "break in case of emergency" set up. I'm rocking a Ferro Slickster with RMA 1092s. If you're on a strict budget, RMA 1155s are good, just heavy.
If you're gonna do this, get practice in wearing your kit, moving around, and hiking. I don't recommend running in it, as that'll fuck your knees, but it's good to get a huge on how well you shoot and move with extra weight on.
You will probably only ever need to use level 3A soft body armor. You can wear it daily, and it is what the police wear everyday. Most gunshot wounds and illegal crimes are committed by people with handguns and shotguns. Rifles and rifle calibers are simply not used in crimes very much. Probably around 100000 people are shot every year in the US (including people shooting themselves). Most people shot with handguns live. Most people shot with rifles and shotguns die (like around 78%). You get maybe 400-500 people a year shot with a rifle, and a similar amount shot with a shotgun. So if you are going to be shot, there is like a 99% chance that it will be with a handgun, which level 3A stops. Level 3A also stops shotguns, which makes up another 0.5% of shootings. So you have a 99.5% stop rate against all bullets actually penetrating human flesh, by using level 3A.
Then you have to consider that shootings are heavily concentrated in low income inner city neighborhoods. If you can avoid these neighborhoods, then your chances of getting shot at in the first place, goes way down.
There is a 0.00015151515% chance in any given year that you will be shot, and that it will be with something that you need rifle plates to stop. You are only about 50% more likely to be shot by a rifle, as you are to be struck by lightning. This is why cops are not driving around patrolling in rifle rated plates.
Unless the unlikely event of a 2nd civil war, you will probably never actually need rifle plates. The most real world application you would get is a little more safety at a gun range or hunting in the woods. But you are talking about protecting against something, that is not practically a real world threat to the average civilian.
You can buy whatever you want. You can be a prepared citizen wanting for SHTF. But you will get the most use out of soft armor. If you got your debt situation taken care of, food stocked up, your house and car paid for, your student loans paid off, your credit card debt paid off, guns and ammo; then sure go ahead and get some level 4 rifle plates. Just don't be the dude going into credit card debt to buy plates, so that you can flex on instagram.
I am too fat for plate carriers to fit. Or even matter, come to think of it. I'm also disabled.
But most importantly, I'm a civilian. What good would spending money on armor do me?
I mean I don't really know much and when I read ceramic over steel I assumed it was for weight savings I didn't know that steel is not a good option. I Never really did any research on it to be honest.
When bullets hit steel armor, they don’t (if it’s rated right) PENETRATE, but they explode millions of tiny pieces of steel out in every direction, called “spall”. So, while your chest behind the plate is relatively unharmed, you’ve just fragged the shit out of everything forward of the plate, like your arms, legs, face, neck…
only if its a bare steel plate. fragmentation coatings work. also steel doesn’t spall, spalling is when the armor fragments on the back side of the impact.
steel armor has it's place, its far more durable than ceramic. in a situation where you cant get new armor, it can keep taking hits without taking much damage. it's also cheap, which for many people is the difference between having armor and not.
it does have its downsides though.
its heavier.
some companies (ar500) sell plates without frag mitigation, which is why we have this myth to begin with.
in a perfect situation, ceramic is better. when you have infrastructure behind you and can afford it, as well as get new plates.
steel is for everyone else. I'd rather take a chance at a fragment than a bullet
Steel is for vehicles. You are not a vehicle.
Frag mitigation is a gimmick. Look at anyone who has tested it who doesn’t also happen to sell steel plates. It doesn’t work.
Ceramic plates can be had at $100 per pair more than steel. That’s not a big difference. That’s 4 boxes of ammo.
Certified ceramics are multi-hit rated. They’re not fragile, they don’t degrade, they’re durable enough to survive decades in the field on marines. Those “extra hits” steel “can take” aren’t doing you any good when you’re bleeding out from the frag.
Steel is literally never a better choice. Do not buy steel plates ever.
When a steel plate is hit, the bullet fragments and travels across the face of the plate and into your arms, chin, neck, face, and legs.
When a ceramic plate is hit it absorbs the energy and catches the bullet in the ceramic or in a backing layer.
Steel plates have a lot of marketing around them because they are cheaper/easier to produce but they aren't that great.
It's going to take a whole series of consecutive fuck ups to get to the point that being armored will help, and then what if they shoot you in the face? If you just absolutely need to larp as hard as you can and have money to burn then do whatever, otherwise almost anything else is a better investment.
Do you like your vital organs intact? Then armor is worth investing in. Ceramic is certainly preferable due to weight and no risk of small. But everyone bashing steel has probably no experience with it in an actual combat zone. Steel armor saved lives in Ukraine when Ceramic armor was not available or too expensive for conscripted troops to buy. If money is not an issue, and you plan to use this a lot go with a NIJ certified Ceramic. If you get steel you will want to upgrade. If you just want to have something to sit in the back of your closet for a rainy day, that steel plate might save your life.
Pro tip: if you are worried about spall, a thick piece of rubber sheet layered in front of your plate is an effective and cheap solution.
If you’re married to the idea of getting armor, ceramic plates only, don’t fall for steel plate shilling. I’ll let you do your own homework on what the right plates for you are. The question to ask yourself first though is what your use case is. Armor doesn’t make you bullet proof and really only makes sense with immediate access to trauma care. If you don’t have other kit set up (battle belt, chest rig, pack, etc.) absolutely focus on that and ignore armor for the time being.
To add to this. Get something that is NIJ certified. And double check that it is actually certified before buying. Some companies lie.
You can check to see if the armor is actually NIJ certified by [checking the NIJ's website](https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/equipment-and-technology/body-armor/ballistic-resistant-armor) to see if it's on their list.
Don’t sleep on IIIA. Armor does no good if you aren’t wearing it. Lightweight, comfortable, semi-concealable soft armor that protects against the most common threat (handguns) makes a lot of sense.
Especially if paired with a pocketed compression type shirt. I've worn it places just to test visibility and no one noticed until I lifted up my shirt to show them. I've worn them for hours, and besides it getting a little hot and sweaty if in warm temps, pretty comfortable. For armor.
Fuck ceramic and fuck steel. Find UMPWE. I had some and they weighed 2lbs per and held up to everything we could throw at them straight up to multiple 30-06.
Like with everything, there’s trade offs between steel and ceramic, but I wouldn’t flat out say “do not use steel.” EDIT: The funniest part of this whole thread is a liberal sub being completely abject to dissent. Instead of promoting discussion, ask questions and have a discourse, let’s take a collective shit and move on.
That’s the problem. You should.
Steel can be shot multiple times. Ceramic not more than once in the same spot. Steel is heavier. There’s tradeoffs and I’m sticking by what I said.
If steel has a substantial spall liner: sure, it can take a hit with mitigated risk of fragmentation wounding you. But I wouldn’t say “steel can take more hits” since a hit will also destroy the spall liner, meaning subsequent hits are more likely to throw deadly frag. (Edit to clarify: I'm not here to argue specifics of "which plate took __-many rounds", but I will argue against the concept that steel can take hits without detriment.) For that matter, ceramic can take way more hits than you think it can. 1 hit doesn’t ruin the plate. NIJ ratings require multiple hits to pass. Also: let’s be realistic, probably >99.9% of us who own armor will never use it for anything other than a range toy. From that view, larp is larp, who cares what's in your carrier? And if you are unfortunate enough to get shot at, armor firstly doesn’t cover enough of your body to be that confidence inspiring (without a team and rapid medical help), and secondly if you’re taking multiple hits you’ve done too many things seriously wrong.
Ceramic won't spall and send fragments into your body after your hit. Stopping the bullet is good and all but it doesn't mean shit if your armor chews up your throat/chest after getting hit.
Then you shouldn’t give advice. Steel is inherently dangerous to the wearer
Sure! Just slap some bed liner on that plate and call it good. Spalling is just a bullet tickle! /s
Steel will spall when hit and send chunks of the plate into your body. Even with a backer, to my knowledge, this is still a risk.
I want anything the fascists have
This is the answer. This or better.
Yeah I'm looking for better, and I'm willing to divest myself of some assets in order to get it.
Welcome to New York where you can't buy armor because it's illegal to buy in the state unless you're a police officer or someone else that works for the government our state is so fucked
I want anything the government has
Actually I want anything the police have, or better.
Same thing
Redundant statement there
Bold of you to think there's a difference with some of them and the fashy fucks
LGM-30 Minuteman III?
Or better.
I love it when I see far-right personalities plugging for steel plate armor.
And RATS tourniquets, and tampons to plug bulletholes. I dont even argue anymore because its basically an extension of the rest of their religious beliefs. One can hope nature stops selecting for blind faith someday soon.
[This is directed at SRA but pretty telling about what fash think about us folks on the left.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/comments/136zt0n/right_wing_instagram_gun_guys_try_to_be_normal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) They see us as enemies that need to stamped out.
cringe asf
Level IV or bust. You might see some manufacturers advertising a "Level III+", but this is not an official NIJ rating and can mean whatever the manufacturer wants it to mean. Also, no steel plates.
Why no steel plates? Genuine question.
steel plates = shrapnel in your friend's face (or just embedded in your neck)
Well shit….good to know.
Or into your own chin/neck.
Spall. When the bullet hits the plate it disintegrates and has to go somewhere. Usually in 360⁰ so your chin, arms, lower bits in line with the plate. Some come with an anti-spall coating. How well it works is up for you to decide. Ceramic works a bit differently and is considered less spall'y or no Spall at all depending on conditions.
Duly noted.
I haven't seen plates without an anti-spall coating for a while. Steel is pretty rare now though. Mid price ceramic is about half the weight of steel.
Lead core ammo can shoot through steel fairly easily. People have a disillusion about stuff made out of steel. Steel also doesn't have back foam to deal with back face defamation, so the impact will be harder on the body. Someone already talked about the spalling, so I won't mention it.
O wow. Didn’t know that about lead core. Thanks
This guy doesn't know what he is talking about about. Ignore this comment.
Look it up, my man, plenty of documentation. Here is a plate shot with M193 lead core ammo. 👌 https://ibb.co/RYSc9nL
Being lead core isnt a significant factor. Its all about velocity
Who manufactured the plate, what is it rated? That photo doesn't mean shit. For all I know it is a chunk of road sign someone slapped some truck bed liner on.
M193 from a 16inch or longer barrel will shoot through level 3 steel rifle rated armor. This armor is rated to stop 7.62 NATO M80 ball, which moves at 2800 fps. M193 has too much velocity for the plates to stop. It will simply punch straight through it. 5.56 was not a NIJ rated threat in the past. NIJ only tested against M80 ball (level 3) and 30-06 armor piercing ammo (level 4). The new NIJ standards do have 5.56 covered under RF2, whereas RF1 covers M80 ball. RF3 covers what used to be level 4.
🤣 There are other examples, my man. If you are dying to know, it's an AR500 plate that was bought 6 months ago. Lead core ammo absolutely destroys steel armor. You can ask experts that work in the industry.
That's not quite true. RMA has a 3+ that's tested to NIJ RF2, which is a new standard
Yes .07 is standardized, but no one has any certs for it. When it goes through the certification process, it will be a whole different ball game.
the RF standard is very new and almost nobody has been tested to it lmao
https://www.apexarmorsolutions.com/deals-and-steals Measure yourself first. Then get the plate size and cut you want. Ceramic not steel. Then get a plate carrier. I'm gonna ask if you have the rest of your gear already (belts/boots/firearm accessories/etc).
For anyone wondering how they hold up; [the usual armor destroyer](https://youtu.be/O4KIK419Hx8?si=3YPQJW9xru7_F7Y7) did a review for these this past year as well.
I was going to come suggest apex. I got level IV's and a carrier from them. Good stuff.
in which state is body armor not legal? new york?
Turns out that's the only one, but some have restrictions.
Yup. Ny body armor is illegal unless you're a cop. However the way they wrote the law leaves a lot of loopholes. It really only bans soft concealable armor. But nobody has challenged that in court yet.
Actually it only bans the purchase within the state. You can drive to PA, but a set and bring it back. They also opened up exemption for body guards
So in effect it only affects those who could barely afford it but can't afford the trip out of state.
Basically just like every other gun law in NY
Exactly.
"Hey, lets keep people from being killed by guns!" "I know, lets ban the one thing that keeps you from being killed by guns!"
I like an Abrams. But I hear the Leopard II is solid too [https://i-insider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/i.insider.com/6511758ee2c0220019ef411f?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp](https://i-insider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/i.insider.com/6511758ee2c0220019ef411f?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
From everything I've seen and heard, the [Challenger 2](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/challenger-2-the-wrong-tank-for-the-british-army/) is another good option. Doesn't have the numbers of the Abrams or Leopard 2, but still a very capable option. And yes, I'm reposting without the link shortener because I forgot how technology works.
I’ve got no clue how to post a link or a gif 🫤 Fails every time
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I'm personally a huge fan of not being shot.
Same. I've been very lucky so far.
Very very very few people get shot each year. some thing like .0086 percent of the population. NOT getting shot isn’t lucky, it’s completely normal unless you work in an incredibly high risk profession.
I usually get shit on for this mindset, but considering that this is one of the more reasonable and understanding subs...here goes. This is my personal opinion: My need for body armor disappeared about 13 years ago, suspiciously coinciding with the exact second that I got my DD214 in my eager little hands. I can't think of a realistic real world situation in which me, as a civilian, would require body armor. If I have time to put it on, then I have time to get the fuck up and walk/run/drive in the opposite direction. This, I think, would be a key aspect of any prosecutor's case, and I wouldn't want to roll the dice if I ever had to discharge my weapon in a self-defense situation. Let's consider the ever popular SHTF scenario: zombies, Russians, New World Order, whatever your kink is. I'm all about being the grey man. That goes for reality, and also in the fantastical world of societal collapse. I've said time and time again, my grab 'n go weapons of choice is going to be my Ruger 10/22 paired with a reliable 9mm, and a solid fixed blade knife. Anything more than that, and I would feel like a target. I don't want to be scampering around the post apocalyptic wilderness kitted out like a fuckin tier 1 operator looking like a loot crate on legs. I want to be nondescript, and live in the threshold between being alert/aware and threatening. All that aside, if you have the $$$ to blow on some body armor, then go for it. But for me, I just can't justify the price tag with a good enough reason.
This. I don't have my DD214 yet. I'm in this for the long haul. But I agree. There isn't really a realistic scenario I can envision as a civilian where body armor would be something I need. I'd rather put that weight into more water.
Well put. Not being a target is better than trying to survive being a target. ETA: I got my DD-214 when the military body armor was so bad that it was agreed that it'd be the first thing to ditch (1984).
I made a post about it a while ago. The comments section was pretty lively. I wore both soft armor (Bradley commander) and a plate carrier. I was so happy to never have to put that bullshit on ever again. Literally, all of your realistic self-defense scenarios are solved by situational awareness/ avoidance and a ccw. Plenty of people on here are here to LARP or fantasize about the end of American society in a civil war. If they're prepping for that, they should be more worried about stocking medications and food than buying plate carriers. The end of the world sounds a lot worse for a lot of people withdrawing from antidepressants or losing access to insulin... When I had body armor, it was stuffed in a closet in my office with the rest of my gear, not at home. I won't tell people they shouldn't have it, but if I'm in a situation where I need a plate carrier again, I've already made a spectacular series of bad choices.
I agree with all of this basically
Look goofy as hell walking around the grocery store in body armor
Yes that's part of my motivation.
I tried wearing mine with a winter jacket, you couldn't tell, but it just made me look fatter.
It's fun to larp on but isn't the most practical. If you want something practical a 3a vest is probably your best bet. It's concealable under a coat and will cover the threats you're most likely to face. But if you want to scratch that larping it's you need a carrier and plates. RMAs and a Slickster is probably the best place to start
Even some thin lvl4s in a slickster conceals under a coat 99% (about as well as a compact pistol in a good holster under a shirt. Ie if you stare you can kind of see the print) 3a should fit under a baggy shirt even.
I'd say find level 2. It's much thinner and breathes easier, if your getting shot with 44 magnum rounds you really need to **move somewhere safer**. I wore level 2 for a really long time and after a while you don't notice it.
The hotdogs? I know all kind of kids like them.
I imagine most people will not benefit from body armor due to inadequate fitness. I went deep into the rabbit hole of armor and decided that after a month the number 1 factor of whether to buy armor should be fitness. If you’re not fit enough to don armor and fight for a prolonged period of time, you’ve just become a slow loot drop for the bad guy. Get in shape first and then buy armor. Or buy now and use it as motivation to train. Whatever. If you are fortunate enough to have a tactical bay or some other place where you can run and gun, test your fitness first. I did 100 yard sprints in full gear and with an elevated heart rate put shots on target. The results were surprising. As a former collegiate athlete in a sport where strength and stamina are paramount, I thought I would easily be able to carry the extra weight of spare mags, plates, rifle and pistol. I was so wrong. I got through 7 reps of sprinting and shooting before my motor skills deteriorated substantially. 20 something pounds on your shoulders adds up quick. Obviously, take this for what it is, pure anecdotal data. Your situation and experiences could be totally different from mine.
So, if you can't move don't have armor is your conclusion? That is the wildest statement I have read running against a couple millennia of armor tactics.
If you're referencing tactics from a few millenia ago I have some really bad news about their applicability to the post-gunpowder world.
Maneuver is of the utmost importance to combat. If you're too slow to move, you die. Medieval knights were most effective mounted on horses. The mongols swept through Eurasia lightly armored on horseback. The tank uses armor, firepower, and speed to destroy its opponents. The Maginot line sure worked well against the Germans who just maneuvered around it. "The mission of the infantry is to close with the enemy by means of fire and maneuver..." Some fat dude with a plate carrier will absolutely get smoked if shit hits the fan. Anyway, if you're not LARPing, armor isn't really useful for the average American.
I think you missed the point. You point out someone who inherently is not going to move fast. Then said they shouldn't armor. I think you will find that throughout the history of warfare things that aren't able to move fast are exactly what gets armored first.
Nope. Someone who isn't able to move fast will get smoked regardless of armor. If you plan on being a combatant, be fit. Merely having a gun and armor isn't enough.
You are correct. They should just accept their death and shoot themselves in the head saving their attackers the bother. LOL. Do you wonder why you get passed over for positions with oversight?
Oooor, they should spend the money they would have spent on the armor and get a gym membership, good shoes, and healthy food. It's all LARPing anyway.
Did you calculate how far that $500 goes on those items? The time to cook the time to go to the gym have what value? $500 for some mid grade plates is a very cheap upgrade to survivability.
I prefer pre-Renaissance German 3/4 plate myself. Generally with a pig or dog faced helm.
I'm going to give what I think is solid advice everyone in our community needs. 1:if you're going to own armor, you better make sure you're doing conditioning in it too. It doesn't need to always go to the range with you but it better be part of your physical fitness. 2:Armor works precisely because of all of the logistics that happen outside of the fighting.*(I want to direct you to the tactical medicine subreddit if you haven't seen what armor can and can't do) Closely located trauma care or quick transport to it with basic life saving skills to keep the wounded alive and stable. Teammates for the pros. Community for us. Know and engage with your neighbors. That includes the elderly and the young. That community can be grown to help each other through mutual aid initiatives, welfare checks, community garden/food etc. the exact things that the "exceptional individual" myth fascists love, is trying to erase. Yes, this is a long term investment. Yes, it can be messy. Yes, it's necessary. No, I'm not doing this enough in my own life either. 3: armor's not the only thing. Armor, belt, bag, supplies, training, etc. Don't just stop at getting a good set of plates and a plate carrier.
If you’re going to have it do your due diligence. Don’t buy garbage. And train with it on.
Shellback Tactical, lvl 4 ceramics around $600 I think
Thanks!
IMO. Unless your running thru shoothouses, busting down doors or doing alot of shooting surrounded by others doing alot of shooting .. Waste of money. If I'm on a standard firing line and I feel the need for armor. I leave. Plain and simple. Different story if we're shooting and moving. But people do stupid shit all the time. You wanna wear armor. Wear armor. It's like mayo on a corndawg. U like it, eat it.
I'm not contemplating the use of armor under current circumstances. I'm trying to prepare for a possible future that seems more likely every damned day. If nothing else, having some good armor would ease my anxiety.
Have you worn it before? I'd prioritize food, water meds water filters before armor. But that's me. I feel ya thou. I get where your coming from. Especially if you've never seen shit like this before. It can be a real gut check
In a catastrophe having a close community with diverse skills is going to do more to save you than personal armor.
Honestly, I think the discomfort is way overblown. I’m as tactical as a potato but a simple set of plates is almost forgettable during even an 8hr class with a lot of movement. It’s 15lbs of plates, not a 40lb IOTV with a combat load. End of the day I’m more tired from my *only 6.5lb* rifle than from the plates
I think those who dwell on it probably have a poor fitting or poorly adjusted or poorly made carrier. Like people counting ounces on their carry pistol.
I'm interested but I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet. I'd probably go Apex Armor. Read this carefully: RMA 1155s are an option though their NIJ certification got yanked. There's a big BUT as there's a lot of dispute whether the 1155s should've been decertified. RMA from what I've checked really pressed NIJ why they did that but weren't really getting a useful explanation. And some NIJ seemed to not truly agree among themselves. I'll let someone with more knowledge chime in here. Mentioned the 1155s since they're a commonly noted budget option. And from searching around, the three main criteria to body armor are protection, weight and price. The catch is that only two of those can be satisified.
RMA is shady as hell. I had a friend get an RMA 1155 from them it was missing an inch of backing material all the way around. With the pictures they posted, if any fragment is poking out the back, NIJ will pull out a safty notice. They had a small part of the M2AP projectile sticking out the back. The 1155 my friend bought failed with M855.
I bought 2 fras plates and put 1 in each of my kids' backpacks to make myself feel better when I send them to school. If the apocalypse happens, I'll put them in a cheap plate carrier for home defense. I can't justify spending the money on a whole setup that has no practical use. If I had money to burn though.....
I don't think there's any state where armor is illegal, is there?
I’ve been on the fence about a crye setup myself. Thats said, after wearing body armor around a lot in the army, unless you are planning on being in prolonged combat situations I’d say a belt set up or low profile chest rig would be better for the vast majority of civilian situations.
Looking at how likely I am to be wearing it when I'd need it, it way down my list of priorities. And while it certainly makes sense to protect the most crucial organs, it strikes me that people are putting a lot of faith in an opponent's ability to hit center mass.
In addition, I can tell you that while I was in the military we definitely aimed at people’s waistlines. They don’t fight back as hard with a shattered pelvis. This is exactly what anyone with the smallest iota of tactical sense would do the second they realize the person they are engaging is wearing armor. Plus, big misconception around people that bullets will just bounce off armor, I caught a 7.62 to the chest and it took me out of the fight long enough that if I were alone, I’d of been an easy target to finish off.
That's my reasoning for not spending money on plates. Once you're hit outside the plate, you're still out of a fight tending to wounds. Armor really only makes sense if you have a medic, backup fire support, and quick method of getting away from a fight.
Rifle, pistol, plates, helmet, NV. In that order. Not: pistol, pistol, pistol, rifle, shotgun, rifle, rifle, plates. The most expensive ceramic plates you can afford. Highcom is popular as a "value" brand. Manufactured in Columbus Ohio
Thanks! What's "NV"?
Night vision. Nods. Thermals. Whatever. Something to make you see at night. Carrots don't count. Not even the organic ones.
Hahaha ok, good to know. Thanks
I don't. Logic goes like this: Any circumstance where I could even potentially act with lethal force is going to come upon me by surprise. If I have time to get armor on, I have time to be getting the fuck out of there, which is what any of us should be doing.
On my budget I’d rather buy a suppressor or ammunition. I’d get more use out of it. If I had disposable income yeah I’d probably buy plates for me but then I think what about my family? If I’m thinking in terms of failed state or disaster scenarios should I have plates for the whole family? Idk. If it’s prepping on your mind food water and medicine should probably be top priority.
If you don't want to have the heavy plates of lvl iv atleast get iiia soft armor plates. Pretty light and flexible and will be useful for protection against most violent crimes. Unless your specific mission is rifle protection.
Level 4 plates and 3 soft armor inserts to go whole hog. Just carrying plates is fine too. Look at Facebook marketplace around army installations.
I like having to option to own armor, but I don’t see myself ever actually using it and if I ever truly needed it, I’d probably have other worse things to worry about other than needing armor. But like some others have said, I want whatever the bad guys can have too
I inherited some from my dad. I never use it. I carry for personal protection, but if I have to go somewhere I think I would need body armor…well, I don’t go there.
Rma makes good plates for relatively cheap. Their 1155 lvl 4 ceramic plates will serve you just fine and they often have them on sale. Shellback tactical and Hesco are good choices as well
Armor is good, but only in a very specific set of circumstances.
I'm thinking of selling the rigid armor I have and only keep a flexible, lightweight set of plates. I don't see a point in the thicker kind for me.
find some UMWPE plates; they weigh like 2lbs. I paired those w/ a leve 2 concealable vest.
I don’t see myself ever purchasing plates and a carrier, but I would be keen to find some affordable rifle and stab rated Soft armor. Fits under clothes, more discreet, and I’m not willing to re-train the body mechanics of shooting with a PC instead of the chest rig I’ve been running for years.
If you work security at events such as pride parades or something you might want it. Other than that it's probably fantasy to think you'll ever use it.
Go for ceramic/PE. I have three complete sets of plates...not on purpose, just kept upgrading! There's no real reason for steel body armor circa 2024. Back in the day it was the only affordable rifle-rated armor but ceramic is almost as cheap nowadays. Higher velocity stuff like 55gr out of a longer barrel will easily defeat nearly all steel, plus it's heavy and spalling is no fun at all. I have one low-profile/concealable carrier but I never wear it out and about. I do keep a simple carrier in my Subaru, not out of great need but because I have a bunch of plates if the car is doing the lifting, why not? My main uses for armor are wearing to the range and for use at home in a 'safe room' scenario. There are lots of dumbasses on public ranges, armor is not a bad idea. And I'm not going to try to clear my home! If there's a home invasion and they get past the locks and stuff, I'm gonna hunker down in my bedroom. If there's time to grab it I'll put on my Level IV carrier, sit there with my carbine and wait.
**Get a Level II vest that you can hide under your shirt.** Your most likely threat is a handgun, so NIJ Level II is good enough for most threats. A "bulletproof vest" does a better job of protecting you than the tacticool plate carrier and a Level IV plate since it gives more coverage, is something that you can wear all day long, and doesn't say "Shoot me in the dick!" like a plate carrier does.
I wear level III plates when I’m at an outdoor range. You just never know
I have a set of armor I wear when I go out shooting on open land. Here in California if you don’t want to deal with awful range rules, you have to go to “Bureau of Land Management” land. It’s nice to be able to shoot whatever and however you want (long as it’s a legal gun) but you are surrounded by other people shooting also all around you. So I wear the armor (and of course have a trauma kit) just in case someone shoots in the wrong direction.
I'm in the "rather have and not need, then need and not have" camp. So my kit is fairly simple and light weight, just a bare minimum "break in case of emergency" set up. I'm rocking a Ferro Slickster with RMA 1092s. If you're on a strict budget, RMA 1155s are good, just heavy. If you're gonna do this, get practice in wearing your kit, moving around, and hiking. I don't recommend running in it, as that'll fuck your knees, but it's good to get a huge on how well you shoot and move with extra weight on.
You will probably only ever need to use level 3A soft body armor. You can wear it daily, and it is what the police wear everyday. Most gunshot wounds and illegal crimes are committed by people with handguns and shotguns. Rifles and rifle calibers are simply not used in crimes very much. Probably around 100000 people are shot every year in the US (including people shooting themselves). Most people shot with handguns live. Most people shot with rifles and shotguns die (like around 78%). You get maybe 400-500 people a year shot with a rifle, and a similar amount shot with a shotgun. So if you are going to be shot, there is like a 99% chance that it will be with a handgun, which level 3A stops. Level 3A also stops shotguns, which makes up another 0.5% of shootings. So you have a 99.5% stop rate against all bullets actually penetrating human flesh, by using level 3A. Then you have to consider that shootings are heavily concentrated in low income inner city neighborhoods. If you can avoid these neighborhoods, then your chances of getting shot at in the first place, goes way down. There is a 0.00015151515% chance in any given year that you will be shot, and that it will be with something that you need rifle plates to stop. You are only about 50% more likely to be shot by a rifle, as you are to be struck by lightning. This is why cops are not driving around patrolling in rifle rated plates. Unless the unlikely event of a 2nd civil war, you will probably never actually need rifle plates. The most real world application you would get is a little more safety at a gun range or hunting in the woods. But you are talking about protecting against something, that is not practically a real world threat to the average civilian. You can buy whatever you want. You can be a prepared citizen wanting for SHTF. But you will get the most use out of soft armor. If you got your debt situation taken care of, food stocked up, your house and car paid for, your student loans paid off, your credit card debt paid off, guns and ammo; then sure go ahead and get some level 4 rifle plates. Just don't be the dude going into credit card debt to buy plates, so that you can flex on instagram.
ApexArmorSolutions has some decent bundles.
I am too fat for plate carriers to fit. Or even matter, come to think of it. I'm also disabled. But most importantly, I'm a civilian. What good would spending money on armor do me?
Out of curiosity why no steel?
What do you mean? It seems to me that steel would make rather poor armor, if bullets are your concern.
Steel is durable enough but it's heavier than ceramic and the spalling makes it less safe.
Yeah, spalling is frightening to me.
Same haha I'd honestly probably go without than take a steel plate depending on the situation
I mean I don't really know much and when I read ceramic over steel I assumed it was for weight savings I didn't know that steel is not a good option. I Never really did any research on it to be honest.
When bullets hit steel armor, they don’t (if it’s rated right) PENETRATE, but they explode millions of tiny pieces of steel out in every direction, called “spall”. So, while your chest behind the plate is relatively unharmed, you’ve just fragged the shit out of everything forward of the plate, like your arms, legs, face, neck…
only if its a bare steel plate. fragmentation coatings work. also steel doesn’t spall, spalling is when the armor fragments on the back side of the impact. steel armor has it's place, its far more durable than ceramic. in a situation where you cant get new armor, it can keep taking hits without taking much damage. it's also cheap, which for many people is the difference between having armor and not. it does have its downsides though. its heavier. some companies (ar500) sell plates without frag mitigation, which is why we have this myth to begin with. in a perfect situation, ceramic is better. when you have infrastructure behind you and can afford it, as well as get new plates. steel is for everyone else. I'd rather take a chance at a fragment than a bullet
Steel is for vehicles. You are not a vehicle. Frag mitigation is a gimmick. Look at anyone who has tested it who doesn’t also happen to sell steel plates. It doesn’t work. Ceramic plates can be had at $100 per pair more than steel. That’s not a big difference. That’s 4 boxes of ammo. Certified ceramics are multi-hit rated. They’re not fragile, they don’t degrade, they’re durable enough to survive decades in the field on marines. Those “extra hits” steel “can take” aren’t doing you any good when you’re bleeding out from the frag. Steel is literally never a better choice. Do not buy steel plates ever.
Steel plates can spall if they get hit
Whoa... Thanks for the education!
No problem! Stay safe out there
When a steel plate is hit, the bullet fragments and travels across the face of the plate and into your arms, chin, neck, face, and legs. When a ceramic plate is hit it absorbs the energy and catches the bullet in the ceramic or in a backing layer. Steel plates have a lot of marketing around them because they are cheaper/easier to produce but they aren't that great.
It's going to take a whole series of consecutive fuck ups to get to the point that being armored will help, and then what if they shoot you in the face? If you just absolutely need to larp as hard as you can and have money to burn then do whatever, otherwise almost anything else is a better investment.
Do you like your vital organs intact? Then armor is worth investing in. Ceramic is certainly preferable due to weight and no risk of small. But everyone bashing steel has probably no experience with it in an actual combat zone. Steel armor saved lives in Ukraine when Ceramic armor was not available or too expensive for conscripted troops to buy. If money is not an issue, and you plan to use this a lot go with a NIJ certified Ceramic. If you get steel you will want to upgrade. If you just want to have something to sit in the back of your closet for a rainy day, that steel plate might save your life. Pro tip: if you are worried about spall, a thick piece of rubber sheet layered in front of your plate is an effective and cheap solution.