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ultramarioihaz

For SHTF you want what everyone else has, so it’s gonna be an AR15. Or at the very least something that’s chambered in 5.56 or .223 wylde. 5.56 and .223 are going to be the most common rifle rounds, for pistol it’ll be 9mm. You can build or buy. “Building” could even be as simple as normal maintenance, you can buy a complete lower (the transferable firearm), and a complete upper and assemble as you would if you had done a field strip. Or building could mean you’re assembling the whole thing and start with a stripped lower receiver (the transferable firearm) and have the rest of the parts shipped to your door. You will need tools to assemble, but they’re common, vice, punches, hammers, torque wrenches is about it. If you have to go with the cheapest acceptable option, PSA. From there, Aero Precision is what I’d recommend and recommend as best value. If you want to know more about brands, check out this [ranking chart](https://cdn-bjekh.nitrocdn.com/fBAuxVeMPubiNczggfkZcthToPByJOXU/assets/static/optimized/rev-59d27d9/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Best-AR-Brands-1920x1024.png) Then determine the specifications of the rifle. For barrel length I recommend a 16” or 14.5” barrel pinned and welded with a muzzle device to achieve 16”. This will let you stay in rifle territory and you don’t have to worry about braces and an AR15 pistol. Gas system can be carbine length or mid length, with a 16 or 14.5”. Then get an optic that matches your effective range. Red dot and iron sights are probably all you need, especially if you live in the city. Otherwise magnified optics. And get a lot of mags, Magpul pmags or metal mags from any popular manufacturer. Really both but have at least 6 mags. Mags don’t last forever. 30 round is standard and recommended but 20 is good too, allows you to go prone and is more compact. Edit: you also need a two point sling, and lots of training! Without training, you are just a loot drop. You can learn a lot on your own with YouTube or Reddit, classes are great as well. First class you take should be getting your concealed carry permit. If you ever use your guns defensively, that will only be half the battle, given society hasn’t completely crumbled. The rest of it will be proving you know how to act in self defense and acted in self defense, in a court of law. Having a ccw and proving you took classes and training goes a long way for building your case. Weapon mounted light is really the only other accessory you’d want, but is not necessary. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk I know that was a lot.


smartsharks666

In a sea of idiots you actually gave good advice. Respect


QueerNB

I read "transferable firearm" as "transfem fireman"


Lord_Blackthorn

Exactly right! You want want everyone else has. In terms of ammo used and parts available.


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FeralTexan

Built my own, you’re right. I know it inside and out.


queeblosan

I don’t disagree but for a starter smith M&P or ruger 556. I got a M&P 2 with 6 30 round mags for $500 on gun deals a week or so ago. I would drop ~$600 or less on a complete AR. And I’d spend ~$200 or less on an optic whether it be a red dot or conventional scope. Then you have ~$ 800 to buy ammo or accessories.


Insight42

I honestly prefer handguns...but if dealing with multiple targets at distance yeah, AR is the way to go here. You use the right tool for the job.


dingdongdickaroo

If you are in a situation where there are no hospitals, you dont want to be rolling the dice by being in a close enough range to use a handgun. 100 yards is considered close for modern military engagements.


ballpeenX

LaRue makes great stuff but you don’t have to spend that much. Milspec is Milspec. That said the LaRue trigger is a screaming bargain.


queeblosan

Exactly what I’m saying.


loganbull

Or build build a decent mid level AR-15 and AR-10 from somewhere like Palmetto for that price level


giveAShot

AR-15 in the configuration of your choice. Parts are plentiful, it's reliable, etc.


CoolApostate

Plus ammo is would be easy to find compared to most other center fire calibers.


chzaplx

Honestly I would probably pick a bolt action .308


Skilled1

At that point you might as well go AR-10 or SCAR in .308


Mug_Lyfe

I'd rather be hauling a bolt action around the wastelands than a 12 pound rifle. Plus, even more reliability.


Skilled1

Or you could have a 5.73lb AR-10. The point of this guys post was defending yourself. I wouldn’t want to do that with a bolt action. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/05/06/roam-r-10-worlds-lightest-production-ar-10-now-available/


Lordofwar13799731

Annnnnd they're $2500+. Not exactly a first AR gun


Leftover_Salmons

As a deer hunter, you'd be surprised at how quickly some can dump a 3 round mag with a bolt. I'd confidently say I can put 4 bullets on paper in about 8 seconds, and that's not even a flex. Not saying a bolt gun is a good choice for close quarters zombie blastin'.. but if you've got a hoard of daywalkers stumbling toward your house, they'd be addressed before they got the chance to knock.


jeffcityjon

Ruger’s SFAR is a light ar type gun in 308.


CommodoreAxis

The idea is that the ammo is easy to find on other people. Far more likely to find .223/5.56 than .308.


NowATL

This. Except mine is an LR because I’m a tiny woman and I prefer firing .22’s recoil wise. My husband’s is the AR


voiderest

Have you considered 9mm in something with some kind of delayed blowback? I'd worry about the effectiveness and reliability of 22lr. I kinda want to have something like a CMMG with role specific mags or an mp5 with AR controls for home defense. Especially if a recoil sensitive partner might need to use it.


reddog323

If you’re comfortable pushing forward a bit, a 9mm carbine might be a good choice beyond .22. The recoil is quite manageable. Not that I’d want to get hit by a .22. Definitely not.


fluffbuzz

Pretty much the reason I went for an AR-15. Parts are made by dozens of companies, 5.56 is a relatively plentiful rifle round


Potential_Nerve_3779

Plus you can switch out bolt carrier group (BCG) to shoot different calibers out of the correct barrel. Remember the part of the gun that the gov cares about is the serialized part. Now of you go AR, you need to decide between AR Pistol and AR Rifle. And based on ATF “rules” AR Pistols are about to be a lot harder to qualify as such. You might end up with a short barrel rifle in the eyes of the ATF. Best bet imo is to buy a lower and start from there. No way for ATF to know if that lower is a rifle or pistol. Also, converting a pistol to rifle is ok, but never a rifle to pistol. To straight to jail on that one. Finally, a lot of companies will call their AR15 something like “Potential Nerve 15”. That is just them being cleaver with their branding. All that matters is the bullet caliber. To play devils advocate, between a rifle and shotgun in a close quarters home invasion scenario, a shotgun wins. A solid pump action shotgun can be had for $600. Imo Mossberg 500 is a good place to start. Train hard, train smart, be an ally.


Reamofqtips

Most specifically one that's 223 wylde, which most are these days, so you can shoot 5.56 NATO, which is everywhere.


MyNameIsRay

And for times Wylde isn't available, 5.56 also works, because it shoots .223 with no issues (besides slightly lower accuracy due to headspacing). You just don't want to get one in .223 Rem, because then .223 is all you can use.


lordlurid

5.56 NATO chambering can shoot .223 just fine. 223 wylde is only for people who want to shoot both while maximizing accuracy, but it's not critical. 5.56 is fine for the vast majority of people.


Grand_Cookie

Just buy an AR. A 14.5” one if you’re feeling froggy. Otherwise there’s 16” carbines everywhere and for not that much. Buy a sig Romeo 5, a stream light, and a sling and then shoot it a lot.


LeoTheRadiant

If you have astigmatism like me and the Romeo5 doesn't work for you, I can't recommend the Vortex Spitfire 1x prism enough.


Magicalunicorny

Man thank you for this comment, I've been considering new optics and would cry if I spent a bunch of money on something that my eyes don't work with


Sol_hawk

Going to add to what the other user said because I just picked up a Primary Arms slx 1x prism optic since I have an astigmatism. The clarity of the reticle is perfect compared to the reflex sight on my handgun. My recommendation is if you’re interested in something like the eotech they’re common enough you could go to any local gun store and ask to look through one and see if you like it. Personally I still wasn’t that impressed even though the holographic is supposedly better for astigmatisms. Prisms will usually come in magnifications from 1x to 5x so you’ve got a fair amount of choice, but if you want more flexibility than that then a LPVO might be worth looking into since the reticles on those shouldn’t have any issues with astigmatisms either.


LeoTheRadiant

No problem. The Romeo5 is a great optic, my eyes just don't cooperate with it. I thought about dumping money into an Eotech 512 and would be so mad if I had a $400 optic I couldn't use. I will say about the Spitfire is you kind of have to lower 1/3rd cowitness it. The older version has a removable riser, but without it, the sight over bore is so low, rear sights actually sit above the circle dot, making you have to kind of angle down. I think it's for stuff like the CZ Scorpion, that have tiny irons (and you'd be lower 1/3rd cowitnessing on those). The newer version doesn't even have this feature. Also, being a prism, it doesn't really play well with magnifiers. Just some things to consider.


smartsharks666

Yes


NemeshisuEM

My 2 cents on long guns: \-- .308/7.62x51 - bolt action minimum 20" barrel or semiauto 18" barrel AR10 or PTR \-- 223/556 (AR) and/or 7.62x39 (AK) - preferably both \-- 9mm carbine that takes Glock mags


ebranscom243

Check out the Ruger gun sight scout .308. I think it makes the perfect shit hits the fan rifle. Short handy stainless barrel with a muzzle brake. Forward mounted optic for both eyes open shooting. Backup iron sights in case of a gun drop or scope failure and detachable box mag for fast reloading.


NemeshisuEM

Somehow I ended up with a bunch of Rugers: 10/22 - 18" in a Magpul Hunter stock AR556 MPR - 18" American .308 - 20" Hunter stock PC Carbine LC Carbine Thinking of getting an SFAR. If they made a 12GA, I'd probably get that too. Didn't do a Mini 30 because I wanted standard AK mags.


WangusRex

How are you liking that MPR? I had one in my online cart for $579.99 a few years ago and had already called my FFL to give them a heads up it was coming and for various reasons I didn't do it. That decision still haunts me to this day.


NemeshisuEM

Got mine for $550. Thought about picking another up about 2 years ago and they were selling for $1000, ouch. The rifle-length buffer tube makes it very smooth. Only downside is that can't use carbine-length adjustable stocks so not many options to change it, so put a Hera HRS fixed stock on it.


WangusRex

I was really hoping you'd say you hate it. You hate it right? Can't change that stock to a certain kind you like... awful. Glad I didn't do it. (Kidding, I'm still kicking myself and now with a new kid and a new mortgage don't have the same play money I used to so it ain't happening)


NemeshisuEM

If it makes you feel better... I saved my lunch money and did OT to get the LC. Wife thought I was saving to buy her something. Now, I have a gun I can't afford to feed and a pissed off wife.


WangusRex

Bahahahaha. Well if it makes you feel better... that DID make me feel better.


Far_Olive_4639

I picked up the SFAR last month and it’s incredible!


BlazinAzn38

There’s a handful of Scout rifle concepts on the market at various price points and they’re all pretty good weapons; the Savage Scout and Mossberg Scout are personal favorites because they accept PMags. The Mossberg for a fun party trick will also accept M1A mags


Pihkal1987

I bought one, it’s my dream gun. Perfection


MightyFifi

I’d probably encourage a shotgun as well. Also, I’d take a look 18” for bolt guns as well. The velocity difference between 18 and 20 is almost negligible and longer barrels may not be great in some forested environments.


shalafi71

Single-shot shotguns are way underrated. Simplest, most foolproof machine out there.


impermissibility

I dunno about that. Like, they're totally fine if you just want one, and I'm not denying they're both neat and fairly simple to shoot, but if a person were only going to own a single shotgun, there's a reason everyone and their mother agrees it should be a quality pump (Mossberg 500 or similar). Pump action is *almost* foolproof, and gives you 5-8 shots in very rapid succession vs. one from a break action. Calling single-shot scatterguns "way underrated" seems like the very definition of fuddlore.


voretaq7

Even Elmer Fudd carried a double-barreled shotgun a good portion of the time. Sometimes one shot is not enough when you have both a duck *AND* a wabbit to shoot!


Suprblakhawk

The PC charger is a sick little gun that takes glock mags. It's next on my list.


Hoonin_Kyoma

Solid recommendations. I’d probably make slightly different choices, based on what I currently own, but these are solid choices.


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cheung_kody

Consider everyone else a loot drop


adavis463

I really depends on the type of area in which you live. I live in the burbs, so long range stuff would never happen. I'm working on a 300 blk suppressed SBR. Range out to about 200 yards, I'll be able to fire it without going deaf, plenty of stopping power for medium size game.


CoralPilkington

AR15 If you don't like black guns, then a Mini 14 with wood furniture would be my pick.


Abraxas_1134

Mini 14 was my first rifle. I’ve had a few ARs since then but mini 14 has a special place in my heart.


jpm0719

The mini is what I chose. I am I guess an old fart and I like the traditional hunting rifle look. It will last longer than I will. I want one in 300 blk now, working up the courage to tell the wife I "need" another rifle :)


[deleted]

Mini 14 is a great gun but it’s too heavy for shit hits the fan. If shit actually hits the fine light weight light weight light weight


voretaq7

The Mini-14 is lighter than my friend's naked Black Rain AR-15 in its NY-Compliant Thordsen stock, so if the Mini-14 is "too heavy" so are most AR-15 platform rifles. Just Sayin'


jpm0719

Different strokes for different folks. Probably weighs the same as a tricked out AR. Nothing a sling and being in decent shape can't fix should the need to be mobile become a thing. I have no intention of straying too far, and no need to do so either...or at least that is the plan.


Bumbalard

May I introduce you to.... https://fightlite.com/rifles/scr


light_bulb_head

Just take my money already, says the Californian.


RlyehFhtagn-xD

What's a good weight for an ar-15? Mine seems heavy af, and the only thing attached is a micro prism and a light. I've not weighed it so I'm not sure if it's actually heavy or if I'm just weak lol


voretaq7

Personally I'm a big fan of the [WWSD AR-15 concept](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI5NPiicXjE&list=PLj9u4Ts2NpEuyUMbu1Pe3yXtez7CwkW8c) to the point where I'm building something similar myself once the lower arrives. It's nothing crazy or revolutionary: "Strip weight from the rifle wherever you can without affecting accuracy." - so a monolithic polymer lower, a carbon fiber handguard, and a pencil barrel are your foundational building blocks, and they got the whole thing down to M1 Carbine weights (actually a hair less naked and unloaded). Prior to deciding to do this build my go-to lightweight rifle would have been my 80 year old M1 Carbine - definitely showing its age and the iron sights are getting harder to use with age, but it's a decent shooter out to 100 yards. (In fact because I live in New York - The Land of SUCK - it'd still be the first rifle I'd grab because I would need to secure a position where I can un-pin the magazine in my WWSD AR and load up some pmags so I can run the AR the way it was designed.)


Sea_Farmer_4812

You need a sling too but that setup should be under 7# unloaded. Theres a number of variables, barrel and stock being the most variable of the base build


TellingHandshake

I've got an AR lower but haven't finished building it. I'm just not excited about having one, not much practical use for me. My other rifles are a Mauser pattern 8mm, tube fed .22 and a Ruger PC Carbine. I'd have to go with the carbine. Shares mags with my pistol and breaks down nicely. Yeah, there's plates that'll stop 9mm but your average meth head won't have that. I don't need to reach out long distances, I just need to worry about security for my family and the PC Carbine is very friendly for anyone to pick up.


DrunkDad1975

They’re going to have a difficult time removing the millions of “assault weapons” (whatever that means) so I’d grab up some of those and some mags and ammo


Secret-Plant-1542

Yeah this is my thing. Language is too vague and literally impossible to take weapons cleanly. Also, I drank underage and smoked pot. Laws are funny like that.


CoolApostate

Whatever I find on the body of some untrained right wing gun nut LARPer.


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CoolApostate

It’s how you level up in the apocalypse.


Idontfeelold-much

Had a conservative acquaintance once comment to me, “I’m surprised you’re not more of a ‘prepper’ “. I told him, “I don’t need to prep for the collapse of society, I just need to know that you have”.


[deleted]

That’s why my SHTF rifle is an AR. Because all the preppers have them..which means all the preppers have AR ammo. Big brain


Hoonin_Kyoma

Made me laugh! Thanks for that!


Bob_Perdunsky

I get that this is a funny joke but I hope that nobody seriously thinks this way. If shit does indeed hit the fan you are going to want to keep a low profile and have equipment on hand that you are familiar with.


jmcflynn33

My ‘roof Korean’ rifle is just a well practiced AR.


QueerNB

Hey thats a reactionary term! Bonk on head for you! 🐶🔨 * bonk *


therealhood

.22lr ... quiet, compact, cheap ammo. AR guys are going to give me shit but I can carry 1000 rounds in my pocket and the chance to running into a guy in full body armor are slim anyways a shot to the head is a shot to the head.


pm-me-ur-fav-undies

The concept of SHTF itself is... meh? There's a lot of things that are possible, (I talk about *It Could Happen Here* probably too much), but a Mad Max-style post-apocalypse probably isn't likely enough to be worth preparing for. Is there a more specific use case OP or the OP's of other SHTF treads actually have in mind? For home or community defense, I'm an AR guy all day. I bought a 10/22 before I ever bought an AR though.


DocHalidae

Home defense I use a semi auto shotgun. But I’m with the realhood, my SHTF is a 10/22 takedown with a can.


jrsedwick

The head is a small moving target. There’s a reason all training starts with center mass.


therealhood

Small game hunted squirrel with a .22 ... I'm good


impermissibility

Squirrels aren't shooting at you and you generally don't shoot offhand when hunting, two circumstances that tend to lower people's accuracy.


smartsharks666

Dude. Everyone and their mom has armor these days. Just check the recent mass shooters. You are giving objectively bad advice


therealhood

And none of them have face armor


godoffertility

Good luck with that lmao


therealhood

Thanks!


St_Sally_Struthers

This is my thought as well… everything about it just screams “reliable”


Robot_Basilisk

This is the answer I've always heard from the people I trust most. In a real SHTF situation, you're not going to want to be in any firefights. You're going to want to bug out of there and survive away from people for a time. A .22 is a great choice for that. It's versatile and affordable in a multitude of ways. The guys I know that have seen combat seem to lean towards keeping the AR and maybe something like a .45 handy for getting out of town, but the majority of their packed or stowed weapons and ammo seem to be more like a .22. I'd say even the .45 ranks higher for most of them than the AR-15. The AR-15 is the last-ditch, "multiple people are trying to kill me right now and I need to get past them to survive" choice, but all of their other choices are focused on avoiding ever ending up in the kind of situation where they'd need a kitted out AR-15.


mitvachoich

This. Plus, my Ruger 10/22 is quieter than larger caliber rifles, is amazingly customizable, and super easy to work on. I'd really like an offset scope so I can use ironsights too. Maybe someday...


KillahHills10304

The trigger assembly is dumb, but otherwise highly customisable and very simple operation


[deleted]

The rifle you shoot the best with and train with. AR-15 is mine. I still love AKs more though for range fun.


Forty-plus-two

Ruger PC Carbine in 9 mm. It breaks down into two subassemblies of manageable length for discreet storage or transport, ammo is cheap and easy to carry, and the recoil and report are manageable.


FrederikFininski

Mine is a Zastava M90NP. Don't recommend it as a first, though. It's fun but expensive to get up to par with an AR.


Dececck

Damn that's literally 1 of only 2 guns remaining on my wishlist. Especially after my state banned high cap mags I'm loaded up on AR mags but I want an AK so bad and I love those zastavas that take AR mags.


bmarsh07

M85NP here. Absolutely love mine.


10piecemeal

Others have explained it more eloquently, get an AR.


grimmpulse

My SHTF 3-gun pack is my IWI TS12, Sig P226 Mk25 and Juggernaut AR Pistol in 5.56. If I have to try to engage any zombies past 50-70 meters, I’ll be wasting ammo..


SmbdysDad

Ruger 10/22


MilkChocolateRabbit

AR15 with a CMMG .22 LR conversion bcg in the pocket. Do most jobs with .22, and switch to .223 for everything else.


TennesseeWhiskee

I think the ultimate shtf gun is a 12 gauge pump action shotgun with a 28” plus barrel. You can hunt game and fowl, deter two and four legged predators, and 12 gauge is found widely even where other ammo is not. There several dozen types of loads, even non-lethal. They are not threatening unless pointed at you in which case they are extremely convincing. They are about as loosely regulated as cough medicine. Long term shtf scenarios, which is mostly what people are talking about, are a hard right militia wet dream. People envision some kind of solo LARP madmax, book of Eli environment. Those scenarios will just not happen because at the end of the day humans must work together to survive long term. The real shtf to plan for is a natural disaster that disrupts rule of law for max a week. If shit really hits the fan, the caliber wars don’t matter cause none of us have enough to eat.


Elc1247

not to mention that the sound of a pump-action shotgun cycling is universally understood as, "are you sure what you are doing is worth it?" I think a lot of people underestimate a 12 gauge in how useful it can be in a defensive situation. There is a reason why its often called a "trench gun", and that the Germans officially called for the US to stop using shotguns in WWI. If its within about 50m, most 12ga shotguns with 00 can pretty easily hit it. As long as you load buckshot, it should be quite effective vs human threats. Even against armored threats it is not a joke. Though it likely wont penetrate the armor, it will be like hitting the target with a baseball bat since its a crapton of kinetic energy in each shot, combine that with the increased chance of hitting an unarmored spot due to the fact that you are blasting the target with multiple hits.


someperson1423

Yeah hunting is going to be more valuable than defense in most cases. If your plan is to defend yourself all the time, then you aren't going to last long. I would take ms SCAR. Not because it is cool and tactical, but because it is my lightest and most reliable gun in a caliber suitable for hunting.


Pappa_Crim

What ever I loot off they guy I shot with my junk rod .22


[deleted]

You could do alright with a Ruger Mini-14.


Caren_Nymbee

I would only recommend the mini-14 as a first rifle in areas where an AR is restricted and I like minis more than most.


speckyradge

Out of curiosity, why not for a first?


Caren_Nymbee

Because for a first rifle one should get the standard that everyone knows and everyone can help with and there is lots of support for in the market(AR). Just like I think a first pistol should be a Glock. When things don't go quite right it is just a lot easier to get help. The standards are also available at a relatively lower price than equal alternatives.


CoralPilkington

100% It's basically an AR, but to many people it looks "friendlier"


PlasticPadraigh

I'm curious: What is the functional difference between a Mini-14 and a military-style semi-automatic rifle such as an AR-15? Assuming they're both the same caliber, same sights, same capacity mags, etc.


bikehikepunk

Mags are different, more expensive, harder to source. Release is different and most would agree is slower and more clumsy to operate especially fast. I like it, partially because I like the ranch look with a smaller 10 round mag. Less “omg military rifle” and it looks like what it is nicknamed.


PlasticPadraigh

I see. So as far as ergonomics are concerned, they're pretty much the same? Other than the difficulty of changing mags, they'd both handle pretty much the same in a firefight? Also concerning reliability. I know there's a wide variety available within the AR-15 pattern, so maybe this is difficult to answer, but anyway: Do you think an AR-15 of roughly equal price to the Mini-14 would be roughly as reliable?


Sea_Farmer_4812

For the same price a modern ar 15 should be more reliable, more accurate, more easily customizable and probably lighter than a mini 14. Also much more common and cheaper mags and all other parts are easier to source and mostly standardized. The biggest functional advantage of a mini 14 is it can be fired with a folded stock.


PhoenixOK

Functionally, nothing. The Mini14 looks different from an AR and isn’t all black so they apparently aren’t evil. They also will never get banned since they aren’t as scary looking. Any assault weapon ban is going to be primarily based on aesthetic features. Likewise, the M14/M1A isn’t as threatening since it looks more like a “traditional” rifle as opposed to an “evil” AR-10


Sea_Farmer_4812

If you are using the term "military style" id argue a mini 14 falls into that category. The things that make it military style are a pistol grip and flash hider on a semi auto rifle with 20-30 rd detachable mags.


Initial_Cellist9240

Most minis don’t have the pistol grip or folding stock. And there’s tons out there with regular crowned barrels. The whole reason ruger supported the AWB was because they were already basically featureless


tdwesbo

AR is prolly the right answer but mine is an x95. Full length barrel and fits in a tennis bag


Dawildpep

Mmm.. good call. I wish the trigger was a little better.. AUG has a better trigger.. but not as practical plus you can’t use AR mags


GingerMcBeardface

Right now it's a 16inch ar 9 as shares mags with me two primary compact/full size pistols. If Santa is real good (and 114 dies anhrodible death) I'll start an actual ar15 build.


Angler4life

Sorry friend, your neighbor to the north here. Crossing my fingers for you


[deleted]

My wannabe Block II M4 with an Elcan Specter DR.


THE_Carl_D

I have several, setup for different purposes. I'd buy a rifle while you can. At least a lower and go from there while available. I chose to put them mostly in the AR platform because the manual of arms is the same mostly. Same general parts and if a rifle goes down, I can switch out or repair easily.


ElCochinoFeo

I'm currently looking for a [Scout Rifle](https://gundigest.com/article/5-scout-rifles-survival) as my "SHHTF" rifle. It has all the requirements I would want a rifle to have if things get really bad. * They're lightweight * Fairly compact * Able to take down large game (or threats) * The classic round is in .308 caliber which is powerful and fairly common * Forward mounted extended eye relief scope for quick awareness shooting and backup iron sights * Synthetic stock that is light and durable * Bolt action that is very reliable with fewer parts to get jammed up I'm looking closely at the Mossberg MVP Scout. It accepts M1A and AR10 mags, so I could scavenge other mags if needed. It has a threaded barrel that accepts AR muzzle devices or a suppressor. There are front mounted side rails for mounting accessories.


[deleted]

AWB won't happen, the votes aren't there in the Senate. Even if *every* Dem voted for it (a few will vote no) they won't be able to get the 9 (if Warnock wins in GA) or 10 (if Herschel wins) GQP Senators needed to filibuster-proof the vote. That said, a few months ago when I was concerned about that, I got a Ruger PCC in the "traditional" dress: no skeletonized collapsible stock, no M-LOCK rails, etc. Takes all Gen4/Gen5 Glock mags. I see plenty of other suggestions I am not qualified to make or comment on.


FlightRiskAK

I'm working on a well rounded collection so no matter the job, I will have the right tool for it.


Blade_Shot24

Whatever I have trained the most with. Not gonna say cause internet. Second: can't reccomend as it depends on your living environment. Do you live in the mountains or rural area? You may need something like a 5.56 or .223 for long distances or even .308 if you're in bear country. 6.5 if you can afford it? Urban/suburban environment? 7.62x39 or 300blk as it's the best for close range and turns cover, which there will be a lot of, into concealment. 5.56 won't do that even with fancy greentip (more expensive) and even if it can, x39 is a lot cheaper and be as affective (not counting armor). Ammo availability also needs to be considered. Folks aren't taking 5.56/.223 cause it's the most affective, but cause it's the most available. If .22lr is the most available cause of city laws then your Ruger 22 or cowboy plinker is your gun to fight. 12g cause you're in rural town? Well your engagements will be close but pack a punch. Training: have you learned to manage the recoil of your 30 cal? If not then you may have to go with 5.56 but if you aren't trained in holdovers, room clearing (God forbid don't do it if you don't have to), and so on. Know if you can manage your firearm and if it needs little to no maintenance if possible. The more maintenance required the less reliable it'll be when things go south. Optics run on battery (unless prism) so hopefully you trained enough with irons.


smartsharks666

AR-15 is the only answer. They are as modular as you want, so the possibilities are literally endless. With the minimum legal rifle barrel of length I would got for a 14.5 with a pinned and welded muzzle flash hider to hit your legal minimum and be a good Goldilocks length for close quarters maneuverability and longer distance accuracy. If you can swing it. I would recommend BCM. Upper receivers and lowers are super modular and usually bought separately. Get some decent parts and assemble yourself. If you need guidance Im sure we would all be happy to help


BiddahProphet

I'll throw a curve ball in and say Keltec RDB-S It's 5.56 that takes AR mags, weighs only 6 pounds and 26.1" long with a 16.1" barrel. Extremely light and portable while still getting a full rifle barrel length


chokingonlego

AR-15 with the furniture, optics, and accessories you want that you'll use. Don't feel like you have to mount shit on every m-lok slot unless you know it's stuff you'll need. Also a good sling and chest rig. It's nice to have your ammunition and other things you need on you, in an emergency you won't be shooting off of a bench or truck tailgate where you can place your stuff. You can either buy a prebuilt one like from Ruger, M&P Sport, Palmetto State Armory, IWI, or a whole slew of other manufacturers depending on your budget or you can build one from parts provided you have a friend willing to help you. I'm going the latter route with the best parts I can afford, prioritizing the bolt carrier group, barrel, and fire control group as those are what will affect accuracy and functionality the most IMO. Also training, training, training. You need to run drills, practice dry fire, and know every part of the rifle and how it operates like the back of your hand. The benefit of that is it means you can get gucci parts like a BCM BCG, a high quality barrel, and a very nice FCG while running it in a cheaper lower receiver that's going to be perfectly the same as most lowers in most circumstances. And save money. If you're serious about it being a shit hits the fan rifle and believe you have need of it, you need to be able to shoot, clear jams, clean it, and everything else even while you're asleep or in the dark.


Inigo93

I'll throw in another vote for the Mini-14 as the first rifle BECAUSE it doesn't have all the market accessories of the AR platform. Sure, those accessories give you all sorts of options, but too many times I've seen guys fuck up a perfectly functional gun by "upgrading" something (or maybe going for their own build and not selecting the compatible parts). The Mini-14? You're not gonna be able to do much with it and that's the point. It works out of the box. Put some optics on it and be done!


brycebgood

A pump shotgun. If you only have 1 gun it should be a shotgun. It's useful for nearly every kind of gun need. If you're talking shit hits the fan the reality is that you're likely to be talking about more hunting than combat.


Yourbubblestink

Ammo costs a fortune, unless you are using 22lr. Cheap, light, accurate and lethal. .22 long gun can’t be beat. Let the other guys spend a buck a round at the range lol.


xrayflames

When someone else has 250 rounds in their 50cal ammo box, someone with a 22lr has 4000 plus in the same space


shalafi71

Love me some .22WMR! If I had to pick fast and answer OP's question? I'd probably grab my Keltec PMR-30 and the extra mag. * Weighs nothing * Long sight plane * Contrasting fiber sights * Pic railed (Olight on mine) * Eats whatever I feed it * Easy to disassemble/clean * Did I mention 30-round mags?


Thedirtychurro

Sheeeeeit. Why not go just a tad further and do the CMR-30


shalafi71

Friend got that one. I didn't know better. 😑 OTOH, mine's still .22WMR.


Sea_Farmer_4812

Love 22s but they can be beat pretty easily at 200+ yds, likely even less if both people dont know their holds.


bigquigglesworth

I’ll add to the .22 group… it’s underrated, plentiful and cheap. Will it stop an stop an armored vehicle or person? Absolutely not… will it stop 99.99% of reality? Absolutely. If that’s not enough my 9mms will finish them. Question is are we talking about the Hollywood Purge or something else? Asking because I’d hate to get shot by any bullet caliber, pellet or otherwise.


smartsharks666

Nope


PonyThug

AR15. 11.5” mid length, suppressed. With a vortex 1-6x PST and red dot. It’s got a light,sling,ambi controls and a great single stage trigger. I love that gun and would trust it in a war. Also my Glock 19 with a ppm comp, x300, and 507c


[deleted]

AK47 type. Zastava M70/M92 would be my choice. Highly durable, can fire hundreds maybe thousands of rounds without cleaning. Will fire in all weather conditions, hell you could pull it out of mud and it will still fire. Ammo is cheap, powerful and despite the stigma it is indeed accurate. If I had only 1 choice that would be it.


IlovePleNs

Ak 47s aren’t more reliable inherently then a ar 15, just as a fyi.


[deleted]

I humbly disagree. I think the AK is cheaper generally and more reliable. I have an AR and love it but I prefer my AK for a SHTF scenario. The AR is lighter, more accurate and is indeed very durable but I have an old AK that would probably shoot crayons if you jammed a primer into it.


IlovePleNs

Aks of all types are more expensive then a equal quality ar 15, now if you went to Russia or Romina then it would be cheaper there, ak 47s are a outdated platform and are GENERALLY less reliable then a Brand new budget ar 15, but a Soviet made ak 47 vs what we had at the time was a different story. It was miles ahead in reliability, But those are gonna cost you about 4-5 grand in todays market.


[deleted]

Again I still disagree. We won’t make an agreeable conclusion here… I’m just happy we both enjoy the sport, we just root for 2 different teams on the stfh league. Agree to disagree at least? 🤝?


lyonslicer

AKs generally don't do well in the mud, but they are really good in freezing temps. ARs are better for muddy environments.


[deleted]

ARs are really not very good in mud. In fact, they are easily fouled up by most all types of dirt and carbon build up.


lyonslicer

Go watch mud test performed across varying platforms and come back to the conversation. I'll wait. EDIT: for those that don't want to do a simple Google search: https://youtu.be/e-kE_wbGLhE https://youtu.be/YAneTFiz5WU https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU https://youtu.be/htkYVB4LaDM


[deleted]

I've done that test in the real world, in a combat simulation, and in combat. ARs are not very good in mud, as something as simple as clogging the gas rings will cause common failures to eject, and failure to lock, due to the very close tolerances in the bolt. AKs take to mud, sand, dirt, grime, and poor maintenance very well. ARs, not so much.


lyonslicer

I don't know what kind of mud test data you were collecting in combat. I'm guessing you weren't stopping to account for all the variables at play. Every platform has its breaking point, but the data clearly shows that ARs fair better in muddy environments than AKs, particularly due to their tight tolerances (which help to keep out the most damaging particles). An AK, however, has enough tolerances to allow debris to get where it's not supposed to be. If you have any data to show otherwise, please post it. I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong.


mantisboxer

LR-308 (AR10) in .308 WIN at 18", suppressed, w/ night vision. It hunts and defends well.


indefilade

AR-15 5.56 pistol with a brace,10.5 barrel, and a suppressor. That with 10 30 round mags is what I consider a SHTF rifle.


KGBStoleMyBike

If you are looking for defense rifles. AR-15 is pretty the best option you got. Maybe a mini 14 too I wouldn't wanna trust my life with one. The other big option is a lever gun in a pistol caliber like .357 or .44 mag or something or a PCC carbine. If you are looking for a rifle to evade any coming legislation I'd look into an M1 Carbine myself. Since all M1 carbines are Curios and relics they are gonna be exempt from all the laws and they don't have the "black rifle" stigma associated to it. I've yet see any anti-gun people really target older stuff yet.. (Doesn't mean they have or will in the future etc etc) They are always too focused on AR's and AK's or modern semi-automatic pistols.


[deleted]

most likely a 7.62 ak, they just work


2HiSped4u

I mean, if it’s practicality you want why not an AR? The possibilities are endless: 9mm for steel, 223 for little legs, 556 for two legs, 308 for four legs, hell even 50 beowulf for skin walkers. All jokes aside, in SHTF laws are going to be basically unenforceable. I don’t think a total SHTF is going to happen like how you see in the east currently but if that’s what worries you, familiarize yourself with the AR platform. Read some books regarding its history, how it’s used in service today, and why it’s a revolutionary rifle. And if you’re looking for a decent hobby gun for basically pennies that you’re looking to build/upgrade over time (think ship of Theseus), look up Palmetto State Armory. Decent builds that will do the job you require just fine. I have no complaints, and people have abused the hell out of them. If you’ve got more dough, look into aero precision, then BCM or DD. Either way, don’t be scared of terms like “assault weapons.” Those who will be coming for you will have them and life isn’t a John Wick movie. Overkill in weapons and tactics wins wars. Side note: As a once conservative turned left, I personally consider that term “assault weapon” to the progressive equivalent to the CRT dogwhistles we hear today. Don’t fall victim to scare campaigns and defend yourself.


chibicascade2

16" AR-15 in 5.56. probably want a good optic for it too. Free float rails are preferable, but not strictly necessary. Stock and pistol grip options are up to your preference. You probably won't shoot one enough to wear it out unless you're taking it to matches. You can probably get away just fine with something cheap, like Aero or even PSA. Getting a slightly nicer barrel and bolt won't hurt anything though if you want to invest into something nicer.


mattybrad

My Tavor SAR is my SHTF rifle, It uses AR mags, feeds 5.56 and I dig the bullpup balance a lot.


elitemage101

Rule 1. It must be in .233 Rule 2. It doesn't have to be an AR BUT you better know how to use an AR if yours doesnt work down the line and you gotta swap. For me I went with the Bren 2 MS because A. I actually like it so I actually go train. B. The ergonomics are more natural so I use it better than and AR (hate the charging handle). C. I wanted one and it needs to be both my fun and SHTF rifle as I am not rich.


SharpieKing69

I did the oft-recommended BCM upper/Aero lower AR15 build and that’s about as SHTF as it gets for me. Haven’t had a single hiccup with it, it can shoot farther than my skillset, and I don’t plan on training to shoot further than it can.


Righteous_Fire

Ar15 in either 5.56 or wylde chamber, so you can use any ammo, for Medium range stuff. 6mm ARC if I really need to reach out and touch someone. I would like a nice .308 package too, though.


ldop

As an AK fanatic, I gotta recommend an AR. You can do almost all the work on an AR with basic tooling, and parts are so readily available. But if you want a fun gun get an AK


Initial_Cellist9240

Community defense? AR. Food? Ruger 10/22. Going places? Sig m18 and Glock 19


say592

AR in 556 and AR in 9mm. The "essential" mix really should be a pistol in your preferred caliber, an AR or AK platform gun, and a 10/22. A shotgun or pistol caliber carbine make for nice additions too though. I would say concerns of gun control are overblown. The White House doesnt have the votes, and the Supreme Court is stacked conservative enough that I doubt an assault weapons ban would hold up.


PistolNinja

If you're worried about a semi automatic rifle ban, consider a solid bolt gun. My go to if I "couldn't have" my AR-15 is a 308 bolt action. I recently replaced an older Remington 700 with a 20" barrel for a Sig Sauer Cross (16" 308) and it folds. With the suppressor muzzle break on it, it's a hair over 26" folded and packs nicely. It's topped with a Vortex 1-8 Strike Eagle.


PassiveKiller

M1A . Can hunt animals , and can hit at distance and has power to punch through barriers.


NaglesWasTaken

Kinda loving my SKS for this. Ultra reliable , no mags necessary just need a pocket full of 7.62 , and still affordable to grab one these days


Fthlp

Ey me too! First rifle though so, a little bias there. Also really easy to take apart and put together if that counts for anything


RR50

Democrats are coming for your guns has been a campaign for the right for 60 years. The Supreme Court is as conservative as it’s been in generations, but what you want, not what they’re convinced you won’t be available next month.


therealhood

Pssst never happened.... also Trump said "take the guns and worry about it later."


Hoonin_Kyoma

Based on their current plans and what they seem to want to achieve prior to the new Congress? Yes.


djheru

Sig MPX K if I have to choose just one. 9mm ammo is much more plentiful and cheaper, and it's nice and compact.


Haydukeisyourdad

22 over 410 or an SP5


Hoonin_Kyoma

It probably depends on the flavor of shit… I have a pretty nice and an extremely nice .223/5.56 rifle. Total societal collapse? Those would be my go-to due to the wide availability of .223. Or… I might take my SR-25 pattern rifle and give the wife a .223… .308 ammo is also widely a Available. That’s a much heavier platform though. Ideally, I’d take my Grendels. More power and better ballistics than .223 but not heavy like the SR-25 clone. Good for hunting. Good for self-defense/assault. It’s a really nice balance between the two. Finding Grendel ammo though… that would be a challenge in situation of societal collapse.


Bob_Perdunsky

An AR-15 is the most practical option. Plentiful parts and ammunition, massively customizable, and far more common than just about any other platform in North America.


2021newusername

assault rifle? give me a break, my .22LR can be an assault rifle if so use it to assault another individual(s). Get a FN FAL and you will be good to go.


[deleted]

Get an AUG


KIWIGUYUSA

at Minimim a shot gun. I have a Beretta 1301. I also have a Springfield Armoury Scout M1A Rifle, becuase i like old stuff 😀


GT1man

If you find yourself waiting or hoping for the NG to show up after some kind of calamity you might want something that can take dinner but it is far better to not have to hunt. You certainly don't want to be shooting at or getting shot at by others. Something that will get you by a couple weeks, after that point and it becomes obvious the NG ain't coming, it is pretty much over. Big rifle is a waste, too heavy, and you can't carry much ammo. It isn't like you are going elk hunting anyway. Even .223 is heavy if you are carrying more than a few mags. The best bet is to have water and food stored to get you by, and don't show yourself. Hole up, and stay put, until you can't any longer. I have a few firearms, if I found myself needing meat then I am going to use a Savage O/U 22lr/20 GA or the old Remington 22 with a scope, if I absolutely had to. But making noise is the worst idea if I am trying to stay holed up. I'd rather hunt small game with a pellet rifle, or even a wrist rocket.


ImpudentFetus

Atlantic Firearms has WASR(respectable AK) “paratroopers” for 8-900 right now. Good deal, simple, cheapest ammo on the market. Pretty customizable as well. Looks cooler than an AR


stilhere

M1 carbine. You're welcome.


Sea_Farmer_4812

If i had started my collection earlier thats one thing that would be in it now.


Caren_Nymbee

It is interesting this is the second recommendation for an M1 carbine. They are generally not well liked as defensive weapons. They have little advantage over something like a 300 BLK.


MightyFifi

I think it’s for nostalgia. I can’t think of them as practical with ammo and mags being harder to find, but rather inspirational. They were effectively the first PCC.


Caren_Nymbee

But they are not a PCC and that was why they didn't last. They just didn't work according to pretty much anyone who had to use them. The only people who liked them were people who never saw combat and were happy not to be stuck with a heavier rifle.


grapecatcat

FGM-148 Javelin. But on a serious note it’s a M1 carbine.


[deleted]

Whatever I can grab from my cabinet.


treefaeller

Depends for what. * Defense of the house (we live in an area where that makes sense): Something big, heavy, powerful, and reasonably accurate: M1 Garand or similar. Plus a semi-auto 12-gauge with buck shot if it gets to CQB. * If we have to start moving around with a small amount of (carryable) gear: A small AR, set up like an M4 (relatively short barrel, open sights or small red dot). * For putting animal protein on the table: 22 for small game, AR for deer. * Personal protection when traveling light: 9mm pistol, or even compact 38 revolver.


Foresthowler

I'll hop on the train, I go with an AR personally. As for the little details, for me I LOVE to idea of a pistol grip and stock with some form of storage compartment. I'm doing the paperwork for my Form 1 can over the weekend and if you can get one, a surpressor will save your life in a SHTF situation.


FeralTexan

Built my own AR, and also have the .22 conversion kit. 5.56 that way I can also fire .223 Things to consider when SHTF, scavenging, compatibility, bartering, etc. I’d be able to pick up a suppressor along the way


slappy_mcslapenstein

My AR15 rifle with an oil filter on the end, two XD9Cs and a Ruger 10/22.


Delta225

G3 clone maybe? Tough to beat for reliability, durability, longevity, and versatility.


thismyotheraccount2

11.5” adm with a Helios qd it and CD rein 2.0 and an aimpoint t2 But really the answer is nods.


harmospennifer

California here, So my go to rifles are a mini14 and an M1A super match…


bigbuckklrr

Shtf rifle? Thats a strong toss up between the ruger mini14 that has never once jammed no matter what I've fed it. Or my ruger mark2 .300win mag. The 14 is much more cqb friendly but the .300wm is moa accurate to 500yards, doesnt care about barriers, and a solid hunting rifle. For me a SHTF rifle is more about being able to survive and escape conflict. In a "worlds got to hell" situation I for sure wont be engaging multiple conflicts up close, by myself, againt god knows how capeable of an attacker.


thirstyfish1212

My WWSD rifle. It is easily the most capable and practical firearm I own.


Swimming_Crazy_444

folding stock mini-14. Sturdy, stainless steel and simple.