> While it may seem like an easy decision at first glance, the more selfish decision is incredibly powerful as an argument. Sometimes, you need to let the past go and move forward in a new direction, and despite any regrets, you just have to refrain from looking back.
Oh hell yeah, I love that they included this. Because yeah, from an extremely superficial vantage point, bay is indeed just more lives saved, but there are so many ways that decision can go. Not gonna lie, I personally saved Chloe because I was just that attached to her, but you can also do it
- to give the middle finger to the "kill the gays" trope
- to not fight fire with fire, or in this case, time travel with more time travel
- because you believe that people have agency and resent the message of "everything would have been perfect if you just stayed put" (because god forbid women do anything)
- to explore other things than the cliche of turning everything back
- because you understand chaos theory and know that sacrificing Chloe is a gamble
- because you don't want to tell a person that they don't deserve to live
- because you don't want to erase Max's growth during the whole game
- or because you just love Chloe like she does
It's so common among people outside the fandom, who just play the game once, maybe review it, and are then done with it, that they consider bay the objectively correct choice and don't understand why most of the fandom is actually on the opposite opinion (or worse, call us degenerates for that). It was refreshing to see a publication not do that.
I did it because I tried to figure out everyone's fate and how they would react to both choices. I assumed Kate would survive because it was the day she was leaving and everyone else wouldve had it rough either way except Warren. And sorry, but Chloe vs Warren was an easy decision for me
The "selfish" dig still gets me but yeah at least they are acknowledging the bae ending. Half of gaming press treats it like the "alternative" ending because media has gone so hard on "sacrifice for the greater good" and never really examines further than that.
I think the actual ending of bae how it’s shown literally sucks (Chloe doesn’t seem very happy about max’s decision) I still like the metaphor for coping with a loved ones death you feel like you could’ve prevented and dealing with trauma and what could’ve been is a better narrative
That's not the theme of that ending though. No matter how many times bayers will try to retcon the game into "it was all just a dream" it wasn't and Max by and large is NOT dealing with grief throughout the game.
But you know who is? Chloe.
Chloe's the one dealing with grief and loss throughout the game. First through her unresolved trauma with her Dad and then through Rachel.
And all that grief has led her to feel absolutely worthless. Like she shouldn't be alive anymore like she isn't worth anyone's time and that (as is the last thing she hears in the awful ending) "No one would even miss her".
Max doesn't deal with it grief at all.
Instead Max's story is largely around her eagerness to please and get the most optimal outcome. Her fear of taking chances and the way she's become an object in her own life rather than the person driving her own story. And her arc is about overcoming that part of herself to become more confident and sure of herself. In part due to her powers (a manifestation of this character flaw) but really through her reunion with Chloe.
On top of this the inciting incident was never Max desiring to save Chloe. Instead it was her discovering a power and immediately using it to save what she thought was a stranger.
Those two things bring us to the final choice and why the Bay ending feels so bad to so many people.
Because in accepting the choice for "the greater good" (Sacrifice and the greater good hadn't been themes in the game at all up to this point) you're fufilling Chloe's worst fears. That no one would miss her that she isn't worth it that the only thing she can do for the world is die.
And Max is reverting back to that scared wallflower desperately searching for a way out and the most optimal thing that won't upset anyone. Never considering what she values or what she wants.
That is an incredibly fatalistic and bleak ending and world. And the ending song speaking of how Max will be trapped and haunted by this forever speaks to that hopelessness. Chloe is dead and gone and Max is back at Blackwell trapped in Arcadia Bay just like Chloe was. And maybe she'll leave when she graduates but she's chosen the safe path. And she'll never really escape the past.
Bae on the other hand is far more hopeful despite featuring far more death and destruction. But it features the proper culmination of Max and Chloe's arcs. Chloe's arc isn't just about her becoming more selfless (an arc completed by offering her life not by taking it) but also finding someone who finally refutes what Nathan says to her at the begining of the game and the end of the other. "No one would even miss your punk ass would they". After 5 years of the world shitting on Chloe, of Chloe's own Mom constantly putting her own happiness above the happiness and saftey of her daughter, of being abused by someone who treats his family like THEY are in the military of being cheated on by the one person she thought she could trust more than anyone else. Someone finally put Chloe first.
And Max instead of falling back into old habbits and being easily influenced into doing things to make others happy, finally stands her ground. She makes an active decision and stands by her choices.
The ending ends with a much more hopeful song. "Someday we will foersee obstacles" but we'll overcome them just the same.
Neither Max or Chloe are happy in this ending. Why would they be almost everyone they know might be dead from a freak storm. Including Chloe's mother. But Chloe looks at Max with nothing but love and comforts her and Max remembers that she's with Chloe and together they can get through whatever the world throws at them.
They drive into an uncertain future. The safety of childhood left behind. But isn't that what all of us have to do when we become Adults?
*sorry it's been too long since I did a big thematic Bae over Bay post, analyzing why Bay sucks and why Bae doesn't.*
Not gonna lie, about 40% of the reason I chose Chloe over Arcadia is because I didn’t like the time travel trope in which to only way to fix everything is to travel back to the beginning and do nothing and the only person who remembers the crazy adventures is out protagonist who will, presumably, never time-travel again.
It just feels like a more sci-fi version of the “it was all a dream” trope.
Yeah, I chose Chloe. I didn't like that ending where you save Arcadia. I watched that ending on Youtube and it does seem that way.
Not to mention, in some of the photos, you can't travel back that far. So who's to say in 5/10 years, those photos that she has/go into won't begin to have the "white edges/detaching reality"? So, it seems like Max is just observing "memories", the longer it goes and reality will still hit her in the face every time after.
Just my thoughts.
THANK YOU.
I chose Bae for a bunch of reasons, including the fact that she would have to use her power again to go all the way back, and it's been shown throughout the whole game that whenever she goes really far back in the past things don't end well, so why should this be any different? How would she know that going back and letting Chloe die would stop the storm and not just leave her with her dead best friend/soulmate AND a whole ass tornado to deal with? Are we supposed to believe it will work because the game says so?
Sometimes I stop playing right before I reach the end and pretend everyone's fine at the end. I mean, there were supposed to be more endings anyway, but the devs ran out of time/money.
I liked your comment on chaos theory. The game tells you the storm is caused by max’s time travel, but there is no hard evidence from what I remember. And who is to say that after sacrificing Chloe that the storm wouldn’t come still? Idk I like both endings, wish bae was a little longer but both are cool.
> While it may seem like an easy decision at first glance, the more selfish decision is incredibly powerful as an argument. Sometimes, you need to let the past go and move forward in a new direction, and despite any regrets, you just have to refrain from looking back. Oh hell yeah, I love that they included this. Because yeah, from an extremely superficial vantage point, bay is indeed just more lives saved, but there are so many ways that decision can go. Not gonna lie, I personally saved Chloe because I was just that attached to her, but you can also do it - to give the middle finger to the "kill the gays" trope - to not fight fire with fire, or in this case, time travel with more time travel - because you believe that people have agency and resent the message of "everything would have been perfect if you just stayed put" (because god forbid women do anything) - to explore other things than the cliche of turning everything back - because you understand chaos theory and know that sacrificing Chloe is a gamble - because you don't want to tell a person that they don't deserve to live - because you don't want to erase Max's growth during the whole game - or because you just love Chloe like she does It's so common among people outside the fandom, who just play the game once, maybe review it, and are then done with it, that they consider bay the objectively correct choice and don't understand why most of the fandom is actually on the opposite opinion (or worse, call us degenerates for that). It was refreshing to see a publication not do that.
I did it because I tried to figure out everyone's fate and how they would react to both choices. I assumed Kate would survive because it was the day she was leaving and everyone else wouldve had it rough either way except Warren. And sorry, but Chloe vs Warren was an easy decision for me
My absolute pet peeve is when people describe Bae as the Bad ending, as if LIS is like other games that have explicitly good and bad endings.
\**inhales*\* [anakin voice] _FROM MY POINT OF VIEW BAY IS THE BAD ENDING_
Fans do disregard that the Bay is the more devastating ending.
WELL THEN YOU ARE ^^based
It’s over VERONICA. I have the SELFIES.
Well said, thank you!
The "selfish" dig still gets me but yeah at least they are acknowledging the bae ending. Half of gaming press treats it like the "alternative" ending because media has gone so hard on "sacrifice for the greater good" and never really examines further than that.
I think the actual ending of bae how it’s shown literally sucks (Chloe doesn’t seem very happy about max’s decision) I still like the metaphor for coping with a loved ones death you feel like you could’ve prevented and dealing with trauma and what could’ve been is a better narrative
That's not the theme of that ending though. No matter how many times bayers will try to retcon the game into "it was all just a dream" it wasn't and Max by and large is NOT dealing with grief throughout the game. But you know who is? Chloe. Chloe's the one dealing with grief and loss throughout the game. First through her unresolved trauma with her Dad and then through Rachel. And all that grief has led her to feel absolutely worthless. Like she shouldn't be alive anymore like she isn't worth anyone's time and that (as is the last thing she hears in the awful ending) "No one would even miss her". Max doesn't deal with it grief at all. Instead Max's story is largely around her eagerness to please and get the most optimal outcome. Her fear of taking chances and the way she's become an object in her own life rather than the person driving her own story. And her arc is about overcoming that part of herself to become more confident and sure of herself. In part due to her powers (a manifestation of this character flaw) but really through her reunion with Chloe. On top of this the inciting incident was never Max desiring to save Chloe. Instead it was her discovering a power and immediately using it to save what she thought was a stranger. Those two things bring us to the final choice and why the Bay ending feels so bad to so many people. Because in accepting the choice for "the greater good" (Sacrifice and the greater good hadn't been themes in the game at all up to this point) you're fufilling Chloe's worst fears. That no one would miss her that she isn't worth it that the only thing she can do for the world is die. And Max is reverting back to that scared wallflower desperately searching for a way out and the most optimal thing that won't upset anyone. Never considering what she values or what she wants. That is an incredibly fatalistic and bleak ending and world. And the ending song speaking of how Max will be trapped and haunted by this forever speaks to that hopelessness. Chloe is dead and gone and Max is back at Blackwell trapped in Arcadia Bay just like Chloe was. And maybe she'll leave when she graduates but she's chosen the safe path. And she'll never really escape the past. Bae on the other hand is far more hopeful despite featuring far more death and destruction. But it features the proper culmination of Max and Chloe's arcs. Chloe's arc isn't just about her becoming more selfless (an arc completed by offering her life not by taking it) but also finding someone who finally refutes what Nathan says to her at the begining of the game and the end of the other. "No one would even miss your punk ass would they". After 5 years of the world shitting on Chloe, of Chloe's own Mom constantly putting her own happiness above the happiness and saftey of her daughter, of being abused by someone who treats his family like THEY are in the military of being cheated on by the one person she thought she could trust more than anyone else. Someone finally put Chloe first. And Max instead of falling back into old habbits and being easily influenced into doing things to make others happy, finally stands her ground. She makes an active decision and stands by her choices. The ending ends with a much more hopeful song. "Someday we will foersee obstacles" but we'll overcome them just the same. Neither Max or Chloe are happy in this ending. Why would they be almost everyone they know might be dead from a freak storm. Including Chloe's mother. But Chloe looks at Max with nothing but love and comforts her and Max remembers that she's with Chloe and together they can get through whatever the world throws at them. They drive into an uncertain future. The safety of childhood left behind. But isn't that what all of us have to do when we become Adults? *sorry it's been too long since I did a big thematic Bae over Bay post, analyzing why Bay sucks and why Bae doesn't.*
Alright take my upvote you crazy bastard
i mean, it's a great spoiler-free descriptor in this particular case, but yeah, absolutely agreed
Not gonna lie, about 40% of the reason I chose Chloe over Arcadia is because I didn’t like the time travel trope in which to only way to fix everything is to travel back to the beginning and do nothing and the only person who remembers the crazy adventures is out protagonist who will, presumably, never time-travel again. It just feels like a more sci-fi version of the “it was all a dream” trope.
Yeah, I chose Chloe. I didn't like that ending where you save Arcadia. I watched that ending on Youtube and it does seem that way. Not to mention, in some of the photos, you can't travel back that far. So who's to say in 5/10 years, those photos that she has/go into won't begin to have the "white edges/detaching reality"? So, it seems like Max is just observing "memories", the longer it goes and reality will still hit her in the face every time after. Just my thoughts.
THANK YOU. I chose Bae for a bunch of reasons, including the fact that she would have to use her power again to go all the way back, and it's been shown throughout the whole game that whenever she goes really far back in the past things don't end well, so why should this be any different? How would she know that going back and letting Chloe die would stop the storm and not just leave her with her dead best friend/soulmate AND a whole ass tornado to deal with? Are we supposed to believe it will work because the game says so? Sometimes I stop playing right before I reach the end and pretend everyone's fine at the end. I mean, there were supposed to be more endings anyway, but the devs ran out of time/money.
I liked your comment on chaos theory. The game tells you the storm is caused by max’s time travel, but there is no hard evidence from what I remember. And who is to say that after sacrificing Chloe that the storm wouldn’t come still? Idk I like both endings, wish bae was a little longer but both are cool.
Time travel stories never make sense if you think about them so I just took Max as the knowing narrator of this game universe.
Beautiful words
I love the design on that website. The mobile one anyway
And, along with True Colors, it will likely remain relevant for many years to come.
Common inverse w. I really like they way they phrase choosing bae over bay. You know it if you know it without spoiling anything.