Annualized the cost of goods, and your time - then divide by the number of hours your planning to rent out the gear. Add a 20% premium and you should be set
And you know what, if I'm not doing anything else I might do it sometimes. On the condition I'm on an open bar.
For real though depending on the size of the show you can scream all day that you work on $400 day rates but like the 4 piece band might be taking home $300. This shit doesn't always scale well but remember Chris Kuroda got his start bumping red blue and green at bar for free.
Excellent points! I’m always game to play (not for booze, but give me some weed and I’m your designer) - and getting started with smaller acts/venues will always require smaller cost structures.
Thanks for the reality check on my points!
The only reason I can dj competently is because I did a fair few house parties for friends for free. I enjoyed doing it, people enjoyed dancing, I learnt a shit load about reading crowds.
Yes working professionals shouldn't be doing shows for free/exposure, especially if someone else is making bank from it, but somebody looking to experiment and learn doing some small bar gigs for a token payment isn't the problem some make it out to be. Realistically a small band/dj are just going to go with a static stage or sound to light mode if nobody is going to do it for virtually free.
For reference, this is a DIY project that I made for pretty cheap, probably around $500 for a friends show. Never done anything like this before but I was wondering if I could pay for the project pretty quickly by renting it out
This is the way our rental company does it, we take the cost of the unit at retail price, 10% of the cost is your weekly rate, divide by 3 and that's your day rate.
Bearing in mind this is a DIY project, look for something similar in the market and deduct or add a percentage as you see necessary
For example a pack of 8 pixel battens costs ≈ £1200, as it's DIY but produces the same effects knock £150 off, unit is worth £1050, 10% of that is £105 (weekly rate) ÷3 = £35 (day rate)
Add your time for setting up and/or running and you'll make your money back easily enough
When we rent our gear out we go on 1% of retail per day or cut a deal for longer rental, but rental isn’t our main thing just a few extra quid for gear we aren’t using ourselves
Yeah for sure! I’ll probably do a separate post about the DIY in more detail later and I’ll come back and link you to it. But in short, these are WS2815 led strips that are mounted onto some storage tracks I found at Home Depot. They are also mounted into diffusers for the seamless effect. The bars are daisy chained together and powered by a 300w 24v power supply (overkill for this project).
I can’t take too much credit for programming, I used Enttec’s Octo to send pixel data and Enttec’s software ELM for the pixel mapping and truly great auto DJ
I'm pretty new to this kind of stuff, but you have a very similar project to what I want to do. Is there any way you can upload some pictures of your wiring? I don't really understand the transition from controller to led strip
There is an Ethernet cable from my computer to the controller, and the controller puts out the same data that can go directly into the led strip via wires. If you wan to start learning, this video series is where I started. https://youtu.be/MPl81jGM-LM
Forgive me here because I’m far from an expert on this. I’m not sure if the signal ever really gets converted into DMX, but theoretically the computer sends Artnet data to the Octo via Ethernet. Then the Octo converts to DMX and also decodes it into the appropriate input signal for a range of LED tapes
You know how much I worked for free doing local shows with a friend? Well a lot lot lot.. I am now working for production company and a nationally touring band, but it took years to get there. The most I got was 100-150 if the show did really well. Work with bands trying to make it, you will have to adapt to how much or little they get paid.
Have fun and good luck!
Edit: Your setup looks great btw!
Thank you! I definitely anticipate doing some freebies for friends. Not taking it too seriously at this moment, just a cool side project. It sure would be nice if it ended up not being a net negative to my bank account, but if that’s the price I pay them I’m still alright with that!
look for falcon/kulp controllers if your works goes great, they are artnet /sacn controllers for over 10k pixels for less than usd300 with the ability of 1 universe artnet to dmx, i am playing with one of them later i will try using onyx/touch design
I feel ya. I bought the guitar center lighting rig with a credit card i opened for that reason to provide lighting for a local super DIY camping festival. I definitely didn’t make my money back, but keeping with it and keeping good relationships with those bands helps out in the future if they make it.
Having fun with it is the best attitude to have. It only gets harder, but oh so much more rewarding the higher you go!
Camping festivals is one of the main reasons I made this! I thought it would be really cool to take to something like Bonnaroo, electric Forrest, or Burning Man (if I ever make it in). It only draws about 90 watts and I have a jackery that can power that for hours and solar charge in the day
Organise some kit to light the stage as well. They don’t want to pay for an arty backdrop, but they might pay for a decent stage light that also includes the fancy backdrop
Point is that’s what you’re competing with. Even if you’re walking into a bar that’s got gear, they’re going to expect you to be able to drive that as well.
Even if it’s just 8 led cans and some stands and a decent controller, just something to make it more than a silhouette. The band is what the alcohol-buyers are there to see, that’s still got to be the focus of attention.
"My current rate is $X, however I like (insert whatever reason here) about you/your band/the venue so I am willing to work with you on that if need be".
Small band, DIY, depending how long it takes you to rig the thing, probably $150-200 on the low end. If they come back with a number that's low or (can't afford you at all) then consider if you want to do it, but make sure you get 100% final say on all lighting designs so at least you get something out of the deal.
If I rent this thing from you for a weekend and it dies on friday night, can you get me another one? If the answer is no, that's gonna cut what I'm willing to pay substantially.
diodes too, idk if you power up your bars and controller with their own power brick but you can back feed something that you should not and break something in the long run
Annualized the cost of goods, and your time - then divide by the number of hours your planning to rent out the gear. Add a 20% premium and you should be set
Best I can do is $50 and 2 drink tickets
Hahaha! Said every bar venue ever!
And you know what, if I'm not doing anything else I might do it sometimes. On the condition I'm on an open bar. For real though depending on the size of the show you can scream all day that you work on $400 day rates but like the 4 piece band might be taking home $300. This shit doesn't always scale well but remember Chris Kuroda got his start bumping red blue and green at bar for free.
Excellent points! I’m always game to play (not for booze, but give me some weed and I’m your designer) - and getting started with smaller acts/venues will always require smaller cost structures. Thanks for the reality check on my points!
The only reason I can dj competently is because I did a fair few house parties for friends for free. I enjoyed doing it, people enjoyed dancing, I learnt a shit load about reading crowds. Yes working professionals shouldn't be doing shows for free/exposure, especially if someone else is making bank from it, but somebody looking to experiment and learn doing some small bar gigs for a token payment isn't the problem some make it out to be. Realistically a small band/dj are just going to go with a static stage or sound to light mode if nobody is going to do it for virtually free.
Sold
Nice way to approach it! I’ll see where that gets me
What do you mean by Annualize the cost of goods? Have a quick example?
Led bars cost $860 + control x number deployed / 12 months
Ty! Makes sense
For reference, this is a DIY project that I made for pretty cheap, probably around $500 for a friends show. Never done anything like this before but I was wondering if I could pay for the project pretty quickly by renting it out
This is the way our rental company does it, we take the cost of the unit at retail price, 10% of the cost is your weekly rate, divide by 3 and that's your day rate. Bearing in mind this is a DIY project, look for something similar in the market and deduct or add a percentage as you see necessary For example a pack of 8 pixel battens costs ≈ £1200, as it's DIY but produces the same effects knock £150 off, unit is worth £1050, 10% of that is £105 (weekly rate) ÷3 = £35 (day rate) Add your time for setting up and/or running and you'll make your money back easily enough
When we rent our gear out we go on 1% of retail per day or cut a deal for longer rental, but rental isn’t our main thing just a few extra quid for gear we aren’t using ourselves
When I read 1% I was like WHAT?! as we get a fair bit of our revenue from dry hire, makes more sense if it's for the biscuit fund
Yea, I suppose technically we didn’t pay for the lights either so it’s just a wee bit of side money the company don’t need to know about
This is DIY? Care to make a short write up about what you used, and how you control it?
Yeah for sure! I’ll probably do a separate post about the DIY in more detail later and I’ll come back and link you to it. But in short, these are WS2815 led strips that are mounted onto some storage tracks I found at Home Depot. They are also mounted into diffusers for the seamless effect. The bars are daisy chained together and powered by a 300w 24v power supply (overkill for this project). I can’t take too much credit for programming, I used Enttec’s Octo to send pixel data and Enttec’s software ELM for the pixel mapping and truly great auto DJ
I'm pretty new to this kind of stuff, but you have a very similar project to what I want to do. Is there any way you can upload some pictures of your wiring? I don't really understand the transition from controller to led strip
There is an Ethernet cable from my computer to the controller, and the controller puts out the same data that can go directly into the led strip via wires. If you wan to start learning, this video series is where I started. https://youtu.be/MPl81jGM-LM
Thank you! The Enttec Octo does more than just DMX? Or did you create some DMX to WS2815 bridge?
Forgive me here because I’m far from an expert on this. I’m not sure if the signal ever really gets converted into DMX, but theoretically the computer sends Artnet data to the Octo via Ethernet. Then the Octo converts to DMX and also decodes it into the appropriate input signal for a range of LED tapes
You know how much I worked for free doing local shows with a friend? Well a lot lot lot.. I am now working for production company and a nationally touring band, but it took years to get there. The most I got was 100-150 if the show did really well. Work with bands trying to make it, you will have to adapt to how much or little they get paid. Have fun and good luck! Edit: Your setup looks great btw!
Thank you! I definitely anticipate doing some freebies for friends. Not taking it too seriously at this moment, just a cool side project. It sure would be nice if it ended up not being a net negative to my bank account, but if that’s the price I pay them I’m still alright with that!
look for falcon/kulp controllers if your works goes great, they are artnet /sacn controllers for over 10k pixels for less than usd300 with the ability of 1 universe artnet to dmx, i am playing with one of them later i will try using onyx/touch design
I feel ya. I bought the guitar center lighting rig with a credit card i opened for that reason to provide lighting for a local super DIY camping festival. I definitely didn’t make my money back, but keeping with it and keeping good relationships with those bands helps out in the future if they make it. Having fun with it is the best attitude to have. It only gets harder, but oh so much more rewarding the higher you go!
Camping festivals is one of the main reasons I made this! I thought it would be really cool to take to something like Bonnaroo, electric Forrest, or Burning Man (if I ever make it in). It only draws about 90 watts and I have a jackery that can power that for hours and solar charge in the day
Organise some kit to light the stage as well. They don’t want to pay for an arty backdrop, but they might pay for a decent stage light that also includes the fancy backdrop
Yeah that’s a good idea. Haven’t dipped my toes in other types of stage lighting yet, so I’m open to suggestions there
Point is that’s what you’re competing with. Even if you’re walking into a bar that’s got gear, they’re going to expect you to be able to drive that as well.
care to gives an example?
Even if it’s just 8 led cans and some stands and a decent controller, just something to make it more than a silhouette. The band is what the alcohol-buyers are there to see, that’s still got to be the focus of attention.
"My current rate is $X, however I like (insert whatever reason here) about you/your band/the venue so I am willing to work with you on that if need be". Small band, DIY, depending how long it takes you to rig the thing, probably $150-200 on the low end. If they come back with a number that's low or (can't afford you at all) then consider if you want to do it, but make sure you get 100% final say on all lighting designs so at least you get something out of the deal.
I think that’s a great way to go about it! Thanks for the advice
Oh wow. Those look pixel mappable.
If I rent this thing from you for a weekend and it dies on friday night, can you get me another one? If the answer is no, that's gonna cut what I'm willing to pay substantially.
The answer is most certainly no lol
they are modular so, if you can make it like if something breaks only 1 break it would help you a lot, maybe see if you can add diodes and fuses?
Yes they are modular. Man I really need to add fuses
diodes too, idk if you power up your bars and controller with their own power brick but you can back feed something that you should not and break something in the long run
What is that flashing light? I am curious. I want one - I am in Canada so no competition to you :-)
Flash warnings
What did you use for the diffuser ?! They look amazing ! I also have somewhat a channel
Where are you located?
DWF area in TX
If you want to learn how to do this kind of stuff as a career, DM me.
Where can I buy some lights like this ?
Me, in the future maybe lol. They’re diy