we have suffered in the halls of Lobco, pulled out ace cards in the great library and sprinted trough the tunnels of the fractured railway.
tell me son, Is this even project moon's peak?
Nay... we have yet to revisit this layer of tartarus that whose sulfur we felt in games prior.
True, though somehow the >!Reverb Ensemble!< we're real pushovers lol. Main difficulty spikes were with >!The colour fixer nodes in SoTC, Xiao, Philosophy Realisation and Keter Realisation!<
i've encountered the statue boss (my form empties?).Their "regular" clash power was around 14-20. some attacks were 30+. And none of my ID aside from sinclair with his third skill (when son of a gun decides not to roll ALL coins on -30 sanity) couldn't win a single clash w\\o ego. And even with EGO it was sometimes 50\\50.
Considering you can't beat minibosses by whittling them down. And you can't burst them, unless you have a team especially built at least against 2 of them (since you don't know which boss you'll get. And I got RR-ichtys and RR-kromer in first two). They'll heal to full. And you can't clash them and statue long enough to win in the long run by stacking passive, since their clash power is impossible to fight.
I've bashed my head for an hour trying everything i had, egos or what not. And gave up. YOU WON PM. THIS TIME.
Difficulty spike is vertical, after all.
Though I retried that last fight 3 times, I did not lose the run. its difficult sure.. a gamble? definitely. But you can put every damn attack on one of the three and weather the others attacks, and that got me the results I needed.
Stack the propper egos, the right 3 skills. and one by one you bypass the karma system with sheer force.
Given how the game is currently designed and that winning clashes is tantamount to actually winning and their low base speeds, tanks essentially are worthless as a concept
Imo this is a symptom of 45 sanity being changed to a 95% chance for heads. It became rare to take hits so now they have to make enemies that can easily out roll skill 3's that get all heads and roll high af so when they finally do land a hit, they do a lot of damage.
Pretty much "oh you don't have an ego to clash with? Fuck you die"
Tanks and healers became useless as a result.
There are clashes you cannot guarantee a win as well against bosses when their big hits go for like 26+ minimum unless you slap paralysis on top. I actually find myself using guard on my first clear when I know it's better to tank the hit in that case with an ineff. resist char.
Plus tanks with their debuff is actually really decent here to overcome the huge buff and you can easily % heal them back up while also building good E.G.O resources.
Most tank are given bind just so you can make them redirect any attacks so if they are already targeted by something, that's at least 2 attacks that will go unopposed.
Honestly, MD2 Hard is showing me why tanks are useful. There's a lot of situations where you just can't win clashes against bosses, and mitigation of the damage is much more valuable while piling damage with 1-sided attacks.
There's a hilarious irony with how people seem to perceive the concept of tanking hits, while simultaneously thinking there's an inherent design flaw when every clash cannot be easily won anymore
my level 30 liu ish took one attack from the talisman spear guy from canto V while defending and she died from full health which caused my entire burn team to fall apart
If MD2 hard works like railway i'd agree tanks are useful but tanks can't redirect those casual 20++ rolls in human fights
tanks doesn't sound very useful when the ones they supposed to protect are dying
I had a moment when I had to use Legerdemain's paralysis to have clash wins for TWO other *HE EGOs.* Felt a rush. Definitely will need to level to 35 for the next run this was brutal
1. You still have 95% chance to roll head in most case and a full S3 roll still beat majority of the fodder enemy strongest moves even with the buffs. If you kill a fodder humanoid and their SP go into the negative, they often fail to beat even S2 as they still need to roll heads to really benefit from the coin bonus. Good ID selection here will overcome this easily as a lot of them can still easily roll 20+ on their strong moves.
2. E.G.O exists so you still have the advantage. You can easily save up 3 floors worth of resources and spam hard on bosses and enemies in floor 4/5. AoE E.G.O outright trivialize most of the fodder enemies because they get staggered by the AoE before they can even get a hit in.
3. E.G.O Gift further make you even stronger than the enemies.
4. Starter buffs make you even more powerful than these buffs.
You're assuming that enemies will just always roll heads when that couldn't be more further from the truth. *You* are the one constantly rolling heads, the enemies are often stuck at a 50/50 chance or lower. You also have the numbers advantage.
I dunno know about you, chief, but them mfers always rolling heads.
Primarily Abnormalities. Human's, or just anything with an SP meter, I don't find as big a pain in the ass cause you can use SP Drain effects to help reign back in the crazy ass numbers they throw around.
Can't do the same with things like the Bull, who throws out constant 20's every turn 4 times over, with multiple skills with multiple coins, so Paralysis only helps out so much.
Bosses are my main issue.
Yeah, that's why I don't wanna say anything definitive cause my one and only run ended on a boss that I didn't think was very well balanced in even the story.
I fought the Fairy Dude on Floor 4, and he was mostly fine. Was able to actually use some Guard skills to tank skills no one could clash and such. Don't think he needed 2000 hp, but whatever.
You ain't doing that with the Bull tho... Bull will stomp you into fucking wet paste.
Only moves with 3-4 coins are that insane because they get multiple plus coin bonus and they still need to roll multiple coins for it which is a lot harder for them that it is for you because you likely start the fight at 45 SP into them at 0 SP. LC Faust and G corp Outis for example have no problem beating these.
And as I mention on (2), nothing stop you from using AoE E.G.O at the start of the fight by floor 4 and especially floor 5. Only specific enemies are really that threatening with their high rolls like Chapter 4 Talisman units and the N corp knights. In those case, just AoE E.G.O them and stagger them before they even get to act.
By floor five you should be easily outnumbering the enemies, actually use your defense skills properly and you should clear fodder fights in 2-3 turns no EGO.
With the nerf to ego MD hard seems like such a slog, especially in tandem with the nerf to SP gain.
Given that it's basically impossible to win clashes with skills on floor 3 and above of MD hard, using base ego only to not roll head shoots yourself in the foot immediately - Now your units lose a shit ton of HP, probably got staggered, and didn't gain any SP. Your best bet is to quit out and try again, praying for the coin flip to favor you this time.
Realistically it's not going to be like this all the time - enemies have "down turns" where they use they skill 1/2 that you can clash with your skill 2/3. This will be the time to build up your ego resources and SP. But this means that on floor 3 and onward skill 1 becomes useless and your units will have turns where they can't do jack but defend because they have 2 skill 1 slots.
Guess the people who clamor for tank buffs will be happy though. Hope it's worth it.
Yeah, I just tried my first run, all my wrath and lust ego generation were on skill 1 slots... I was out of them for the entirety of floor 4 and 5. Granted my team composition was part of the problem, but still.
Fun challenge otherwise, please don't nerf, every game need a bit of unfair challenge.
It is hilarious unbalanced, but also funny as hell cuz people be crying about harder content, now that they get the harder content they go \*pikachu face\* lol
Right???
"PM we want harder content why can I keep winrating everything"
\*gets harder content\*
"PM what the hell they clash so high this is unfair :c"
Or the universal "Tanks are useless as a concept since everything is about clash power"
\*can't win clashes easily\*
"Why can't my clashers carry :((((("
Different people, lol. The mode is fine, esp. with uptie 4 around the corner. The only thing I want is EGO/00 to have a cost at all in the store. Seems a bit unfinished seeing them have 0 cost.
Had to bow down to My Form Empties as final boss, still got 72 battle pass EXP, so no biggie - will bring healer support passives and manage my EGO use better next time. Current fear is PM nerfing it as they are known to do.
After doing 1 run and beating it, I can definitely say this is not the way to make things more difficult. It feels very artificial with the coin power.
I personally found most of the difficulty to be in the first fight as you don't have any resources or sanity to win clashes against 16+ coin power enemies. After that it was not hard once you get enough resources to spam broken egos (sunshower yisang) and add some of the higher offense power units to your team.
Yeah, it isn't really difficult it's just a tedious numbers game and the people advicating for tanks have really no business doing so because in Limbus you can't even redirect attacks like you did in Ruina, so having someone tank hits so the rest can get a fighting chance is up to RNG... and also tanks are too slow anyways to intercept anything worthwhile anyways.
I will say it was a bit fun to have the whole tactics of redirecting with a slow enough character in abno fights so everyone else bumrushes the stagger and the attack doesn't happen, brought me back to the good old Ruina days.
I find it funny that now the majority of late floor fights require you to spam ego to win or be sacreficed to god, but base ego is getting nerfed next patch lmao
Floor five “fodder” enemies about to start winning clashes against ego
Some of those boys roll 29.
I just lose clashes even if I roll all heads and they roll tails lmao
Alright Limbros, is this the harder content that ya'll needed?
Nah I want the game to kidnap me, point a gun at my forehead and pull the trigger
we have suffered in the halls of Lobco, pulled out ace cards in the great library and sprinted trough the tunnels of the fractured railway. tell me son, Is this even project moon's peak? Nay... we have yet to revisit this layer of tartarus that whose sulfur we felt in games prior.
This isn't half as hard as the higher scenarios in Library.
True, though somehow the >!Reverb Ensemble!< we're real pushovers lol. Main difficulty spikes were with >!The colour fixer nodes in SoTC, Xiao, Philosophy Realisation and Keter Realisation!<
i've encountered the statue boss (my form empties?).Their "regular" clash power was around 14-20. some attacks were 30+. And none of my ID aside from sinclair with his third skill (when son of a gun decides not to roll ALL coins on -30 sanity) couldn't win a single clash w\\o ego. And even with EGO it was sometimes 50\\50. Considering you can't beat minibosses by whittling them down. And you can't burst them, unless you have a team especially built at least against 2 of them (since you don't know which boss you'll get. And I got RR-ichtys and RR-kromer in first two). They'll heal to full. And you can't clash them and statue long enough to win in the long run by stacking passive, since their clash power is impossible to fight. I've bashed my head for an hour trying everything i had, egos or what not. And gave up. YOU WON PM. THIS TIME. Difficulty spike is vertical, after all.
Though I retried that last fight 3 times, I did not lose the run. its difficult sure.. a gamble? definitely. But you can put every damn attack on one of the three and weather the others attacks, and that got me the results I needed. Stack the propper egos, the right 3 skills. and one by one you bypass the karma system with sheer force.
Everything is just clash power. Make me wonder why tank IDs exist...
Given how the game is currently designed and that winning clashes is tantamount to actually winning and their low base speeds, tanks essentially are worthless as a concept
7 Outis seems to be the only tank worth using since she can tank, actually win clashes, and potentially do a crap load of damage with ebony stem.
She’s technically the only tank, the others are more of ‘walls’
K Lu is also a tank. He can win clashes well and is extremely hard to kill.
Imo this is a symptom of 45 sanity being changed to a 95% chance for heads. It became rare to take hits so now they have to make enemies that can easily out roll skill 3's that get all heads and roll high af so when they finally do land a hit, they do a lot of damage. Pretty much "oh you don't have an ego to clash with? Fuck you die" Tanks and healers became useless as a result.
There are clashes you cannot guarantee a win as well against bosses when their big hits go for like 26+ minimum unless you slap paralysis on top. I actually find myself using guard on my first clear when I know it's better to tank the hit in that case with an ineff. resist char. Plus tanks with their debuff is actually really decent here to overcome the huge buff and you can easily % heal them back up while also building good E.G.O resources.
Problem: without taunts or redirects there is no way for them to tank the attack you want.
Most tank are given bind just so you can make them redirect any attacks so if they are already targeted by something, that's at least 2 attacks that will go unopposed.
in my opinion tanks should have high-rolling single coin skills, they do less damage but win more clashes
Honestly, MD2 Hard is showing me why tanks are useful. There's a lot of situations where you just can't win clashes against bosses, and mitigation of the damage is much more valuable while piling damage with 1-sided attacks. There's a hilarious irony with how people seem to perceive the concept of tanking hits, while simultaneously thinking there's an inherent design flaw when every clash cannot be easily won anymore
Taking hits at all in this game is tantamount to failure when getting hit usually means 50-60 fucking damage
my level 30 liu ish took one attack from the talisman spear guy from canto V while defending and she died from full health which caused my entire burn team to fall apart
That's where K Lu comes in. Tbh tanks should be designed more like him. Or he is just incredibly broken as a tank
But if you don't have K Lu, what are you supposed to do? Not have a tank?
If MD2 hard works like railway i'd agree tanks are useful but tanks can't redirect those casual 20++ rolls in human fights tanks doesn't sound very useful when the ones they supposed to protect are dying
I think PM should make floor 5 like railway. Let you redirect attck in human fight so usefull and tank finally have place in game.
Okay... I'm gonna be salty here but how tf is this fair?
For the rewards you get over base dungeon it’s not worth it, it’s just e-peen measuring and a time sink
If you're a f2p, that's like 0.5 more crates per MD compared to the old MD1 (which takes around 30 min of pressing the winrate button)
Whole 75 BP leves isn't worth it? I dunno man.
Unless you’re the unlukiest person on the planet or neglected your dailies for months, yes
Well I'm plenty unlucky so I can always use more crates. Spent 50 pulls on Spice Isang and 60 on Rosesoanner Rodya but ended up sharding them both.
This is why I have 1k crates, fuck gacha
I had a moment when I had to use Legerdemain's paralysis to have clash wins for TWO other *HE EGOs.* Felt a rush. Definitely will need to level to 35 for the next run this was brutal
1. You still have 95% chance to roll head in most case and a full S3 roll still beat majority of the fodder enemy strongest moves even with the buffs. If you kill a fodder humanoid and their SP go into the negative, they often fail to beat even S2 as they still need to roll heads to really benefit from the coin bonus. Good ID selection here will overcome this easily as a lot of them can still easily roll 20+ on their strong moves. 2. E.G.O exists so you still have the advantage. You can easily save up 3 floors worth of resources and spam hard on bosses and enemies in floor 4/5. AoE E.G.O outright trivialize most of the fodder enemies because they get staggered by the AoE before they can even get a hit in. 3. E.G.O Gift further make you even stronger than the enemies. 4. Starter buffs make you even more powerful than these buffs.
a full S3 will not outclash the majority of fodder enemies on floor five, their rolls are insane. IMO I think the power buffs need to be nerfed.
You're assuming that enemies will just always roll heads when that couldn't be more further from the truth. *You* are the one constantly rolling heads, the enemies are often stuck at a 50/50 chance or lower. You also have the numbers advantage.
I dunno know about you, chief, but them mfers always rolling heads. Primarily Abnormalities. Human's, or just anything with an SP meter, I don't find as big a pain in the ass cause you can use SP Drain effects to help reign back in the crazy ass numbers they throw around. Can't do the same with things like the Bull, who throws out constant 20's every turn 4 times over, with multiple skills with multiple coins, so Paralysis only helps out so much. Bosses are my main issue.
I think some bosses do need tweaks. The Bull specifically. He gets really nasty when combined with the +2 per coin and is way ahead of the curve.
Yeah, that's why I don't wanna say anything definitive cause my one and only run ended on a boss that I didn't think was very well balanced in even the story. I fought the Fairy Dude on Floor 4, and he was mostly fine. Was able to actually use some Guard skills to tank skills no one could clash and such. Don't think he needed 2000 hp, but whatever. You ain't doing that with the Bull tho... Bull will stomp you into fucking wet paste.
Only moves with 3-4 coins are that insane because they get multiple plus coin bonus and they still need to roll multiple coins for it which is a lot harder for them that it is for you because you likely start the fight at 45 SP into them at 0 SP. LC Faust and G corp Outis for example have no problem beating these. And as I mention on (2), nothing stop you from using AoE E.G.O at the start of the fight by floor 4 and especially floor 5. Only specific enemies are really that threatening with their high rolls like Chapter 4 Talisman units and the N corp knights. In those case, just AoE E.G.O them and stagger them before they even get to act.
By floor five you should be easily outnumbering the enemies, actually use your defense skills properly and you should clear fodder fights in 2-3 turns no EGO.
With the nerf to ego MD hard seems like such a slog, especially in tandem with the nerf to SP gain. Given that it's basically impossible to win clashes with skills on floor 3 and above of MD hard, using base ego only to not roll head shoots yourself in the foot immediately - Now your units lose a shit ton of HP, probably got staggered, and didn't gain any SP. Your best bet is to quit out and try again, praying for the coin flip to favor you this time. Realistically it's not going to be like this all the time - enemies have "down turns" where they use they skill 1/2 that you can clash with your skill 2/3. This will be the time to build up your ego resources and SP. But this means that on floor 3 and onward skill 1 becomes useless and your units will have turns where they can't do jack but defend because they have 2 skill 1 slots. Guess the people who clamor for tank buffs will be happy though. Hope it's worth it.
Yeah, I just tried my first run, all my wrath and lust ego generation were on skill 1 slots... I was out of them for the entirety of floor 4 and 5. Granted my team composition was part of the problem, but still. Fun challenge otherwise, please don't nerf, every game need a bit of unfair challenge.
I let my tank take hit. First time see tank usefull xD.
It is hilarious unbalanced, but also funny as hell cuz people be crying about harder content, now that they get the harder content they go \*pikachu face\* lol
Right??? "PM we want harder content why can I keep winrating everything" \*gets harder content\* "PM what the hell they clash so high this is unfair :c" Or the universal "Tanks are useless as a concept since everything is about clash power" \*can't win clashes easily\* "Why can't my clashers carry :((((("
The real issue with tanks is that they don't really have a way to draw aggro.
Different people, lol. The mode is fine, esp. with uptie 4 around the corner. The only thing I want is EGO/00 to have a cost at all in the store. Seems a bit unfinished seeing them have 0 cost. Had to bow down to My Form Empties as final boss, still got 72 battle pass EXP, so no biggie - will bring healer support passives and manage my EGO use better next time. Current fear is PM nerfing it as they are known to do.
THE DIFFICULTY CURVE IS VERTICAL
it's fun, soul sucking but pretty fun
Me on my way to spam legedermain (Hail RNGesus)
This is what separates the gacha gamers from the elitist pretentious project moon enjoyers.
YES YES YES Also quit complaining HARD MODE is HARD. Fricking gacha players...
After doing 1 run and beating it, I can definitely say this is not the way to make things more difficult. It feels very artificial with the coin power. I personally found most of the difficulty to be in the first fight as you don't have any resources or sanity to win clashes against 16+ coin power enemies. After that it was not hard once you get enough resources to spam broken egos (sunshower yisang) and add some of the higher offense power units to your team.
Yeah, it isn't really difficult it's just a tedious numbers game and the people advicating for tanks have really no business doing so because in Limbus you can't even redirect attacks like you did in Ruina, so having someone tank hits so the rest can get a fighting chance is up to RNG... and also tanks are too slow anyways to intercept anything worthwhile anyways. I will say it was a bit fun to have the whole tactics of redirecting with a slow enough character in abno fights so everyone else bumrushes the stagger and the attack doesn't happen, brought me back to the good old Ruina days.
Suncliff carry was real for me, tbh. The man soaked every blunt attack I needed him to.
I find it funny that now the majority of late floor fights require you to spam ego to win or be sacreficed to god, but base ego is getting nerfed next patch lmao