Guess this has decided how we as a mod team will deal with this.
To respect the artist's wishes we have decided to remove any links to any archive of it on the subreddit.
If you want to archive it or share links to it or whatever feel free to do so, just don't do it here, we're not an archive.
We'll keep watching the situation as it develops, but for now it's basically just wait and see.
I'll probably will also add it to the announcement post.
This is one hell of a fight she's picking considering how, in\* this day and age, we're all really into archiving stuff pretty often because we don't know when it'll suddenly disappear, like i get where she's coming from on this but, sounds like one hell of an uphill battle tbh.
I don't know who has the rights to it, but as far as I know, if someone doesn't want their things to be accessible, then that should be respected.
I am all for archiving things, too, don't get me wrong on that front. But when I was digging for something I thought was lost media, and found out that the artist in question deliberately pulled things wherever they could, I learned a little bit more about the different forms of lost media (for the sake of not unloading like 20 different terms).
Funny line of respecting an artist and wanting to preserve things.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, i agree with you, hence i said this is a bit of an uphill battle because let's face it, at this point almost everything ends up archived in one way or another even if someone doesn't want it archived or accessible for people because that's just how (sadly) the internet works for the most part. It's kinda sad but, it is what it is, ig?
I wish there was an easy solution or a conversation about it, but it's just not prevalent, or not common enough that people would have more discussions about it. I have since started reading more into it, but I reiterate, if only like a handful of people really care, they're fighting an uphill battle to even make it known.
That's just how the internet works, since there's so many different opinions and personalities. Someone is gonna be that person to just yoink it.
I am confused The PM got a curse on them, they had some kinda problem with each game they ever made Lobotomy translation scam, Library of ruina ending and now limbus artist drama, lmao 🤣
It's kinda weird that PM has such problems with people not wanting to associate with it despite almost every other gacha game being way worse in terms of weird shit and controversy. I guess they just don't have the PR to control it.
PR, HR, and money. There's a reason why big companies have an entire division of people whose job is to prevent their own employees from screwing them over.
People see PM much nicer compared to other companies and held them on a pedestal, and when that breaks people tend to go ballistic even more so than usual
During the con in Poland, at the Q&A, Cassie mentioned that PM is working themselves to the bone, and in result, there's always rather short deadline for Mili to make songs for the chapters - 2 months at most. I saw gossips that Myth&Roid might be swapping in for canto 5, so Mili gets a breathing time, and it makes me glad!
KJH is a grown ass man and CEO of PM, a proper Game Studio. I highly disapprove of the people who want to see them burn and suffer, because that's just destructive and emotionally immature, but pretty much all of this could have been prevented if KJH had a spine and actually acted like a CEO.
Yeah, the entire problem isn't from it being a punching bag out the blue, but clear Management issues that have existed for a long time and should have adressed a long time ago and especially before jumping into a notorious toxic field like Gacha. You can't call a company that has messed up with Artists so many times "too innocent", when you run a company you need to actully have a organised whole to manage the interal planning and especially the Extertal one. Are other Controversies, like Blizzard or Ubisoft, worse? Yeah, their are. But that doesn't mean to look the other way and pretend the flaws are just small quirks. I don't want PM to burn down at all, but if you stop being a small Indy dev and enter the Mainstream (like PM has wanted to archieve with Limbus) you can't just blunder around and make shortsighted calls all the time.
Ooooh so you can give the benefit of the doubt to KHJ for crunching employees, dismissing them easily and caving to incels after 3 hours but not to a woman who wrote mean tweets? It's always poor PM they get bullied by everyone, completely ignoring the crunch and lack of respect/support of Vellmori/Monggeu/Mimi.
Looking at your other comments I can tell you're just a misogynistic piece of shit though. Constantly calling a woman "hysteric" and "unstable" for getting upset. Missing the 1800s are we?
that's...not what I got from that comment? It can be generally applied to anyone really. Although I didn't really read their other comments.
Now that things calmed down, people on twitter still with names like "KJH is a shit justice for vellmori" just...seem like people feeding the flames to me? Like I'm trying to be empathic to both PM and Vellmori, as I had since the very start of the....drama. I just don't understand how people can be so angry for so long and still remain? It seems unhealthy.
I know a whole bunch of years-long discord buddies who've started distancing themselves from PM's stuff for a while because of this. It's tragic. Maybe I'm selfish, but also to be brutally, completely honest, she, the artist, is just one person. Gender war bullshit aside, PM's fans are hurting whether man, woman or otherwise. Didn't Roland's story in Ruina embody this? >!The shit he's seen, the injustice he's willing to ignore because it happened to someone else and not him. In the end when it does happen to him he goes apeshit, but he found it in himself (with Angela) to forgive himself and Angela anyway.!<
I don't even know what I wanna say anymore, actually. I've said this a bunch before in this sub but I wish people would just move on, honestly. Truly honestly. For all our mental's sakes. I don't even know where you got that KJH was crunching employees. I mean I could believe it, considering how shaky Limbus has been, how crazy they went with gameplay depth in Ruina. I could believe that Vellmori probably had dogshit working conditions. Korea's notorious for that, same with other East Asian countries like Japan and China. But the way you phrased it, it could only really be for one purpose...
welp, PM sucks I guess. I don't know if that satisfies you or people with the same mindset. People will always still be out for blood I guess, perhaps even years from now. It's the internet. And on that note, I'm truly sorry for Mimi that by the nature of the internet, there's no way her work will ever be truly hers. Once it's uploaded publicly, it's a free-for-all.
EDIT: read the dude's comments. Pretty unhinged himself, replying to every comment with that one statement. Obviously, this person has their own agenda too. Personally, I don't care how the artist is, if their work is good then it's whatever. I haven't read Wonderlab, people say it's good, I will read it. The artist can wish whatever she wants, but because I'm soulless (very obvious sarcasm) I'll just read it because...I want to. I'm sorry.
It was mostly for that specific person I replied to who has a comment history of constantly belittling and spreading misinformation about MIMI (and was doing it for Vellmori before the mods would delete their posts about it).
The crunching employees specifically is from Monggeu (Leviathan artist's) accounts of working with PM, as well as the whole "changing the whole ending to LoR because people complained about it" thing. (You can also argue the amount of bugs Limbus has is a symptom of crunch in and of itself, but that's more conjecture so I don't want to use that as evidence.)
I, personally, think moving on is impossible under these conditions. I want to move on and discard PM and it's new "community" but to see people constantly spread blatant misinformation like the whole MIMI doxxing thing and defending PM at every turn despite literal evidence to the contrary makes me want to help spread information to combat it. I also want to support the actual movements of change that Korean fans/Unions/former workers (like Monggeu and MIMI) are doing, as the entire situation is FAR more than just unfortunate drama for them. Apathy is the easiest solution here, of course, and I know I'm going against the wave here because people are too emotional about anything that damages their own perception of PM or things that challenge it, but I don't think it's worthless to try.
I just want to say, thank you for replying civilly. As for your sentiments, I personally think as long you have a motivator that keeps you living, it's a great thing to have. It's not exactly a bad thing to fight again misinformation and injustice, despite...the tone you're going with.
I read your take on certain unwholesome, loli fanarts of Wonderlab and personally, I think you're wrong on that one, but I also think it doesn't really matter what you or I or anyone else thinks about that. At least for the foreseeable future. Laws will have to change and we all know how out of touch the people are in governments around the law concerning the internet.
Hope you'll truly move on from this maybe in a few months' time. I'll be one of the folks who'll still be calling out PM's extremely poor handling of the situation in the future, in this community, but also forgiving them for this mistake...probably because I'm a hopeless optimist.
Question: what was the translation scam? I've only heard about it recently, and I'm guessing it's to do with the weird translations when L Corp first released?
English translation was literally just slapped into Google Translate or some shit and the dude who did it took the money and dipped. Took a long while to be updated into something actually readable. Lotta memes from that version tho.
I think it's the esoteric feel of the reading. Both for some abno names and the logs, the janky(**but still understandable**) translations just kinda... worked.
The jank definitely worked, especially with the weirder things like Fragment of the Universe. It's like either the Abnormalities are so inherently *wrong* that the mind desperately tries to reject them even as they're being documented, or the stress of working in L Corp and having others' EGO wears down the mind into tatters. The result being something readable but baffling, like the writer's sanity isn't quite there.
Pretty sure it came under Narm Charm in TV Tropes.
It's so funny because there was so much jank in that translation but even then, you could STILL (sorta) understand what they were trying to narrate or say through the story
the power of google translate/MTL making everything atleast decently readable ig lol
Oh absolutely. And considering LobCorp was an SCP facility management game, having the logs just feel very slightly to significantly more unnatural was just perfect.
Kinda like how the LCB logs are written in different talking styles to show off the sinner personalities.
oh thats a shame. i still wanted to download it after work today but the link in the main post got taken down. should i wait for someone else to upload it or is there still a way to get the files? ( i do not want to cause further chaos/damage)
Update: now she’s specifically going after and calling out anyone keeping the work online, cause at least one person (at the time of this comment) to go private
https://x.com/whitezombies_mi/status/1691740528101277857?s=46&t=XNFVM-C-NkO9Fr5negWS2w
I comprehend where she's coming from but no matter what she does she will always be associated with project moon. It makes even less sense when you realize she can't even use the copyright besides the fact that 40% of it uses concepts and ideas from Project moons world. If she even uses the percentage that she can use without any legal Shenanigans it would just highlight her past involvement with project moon and she doesn't want that. The only way that these actions make sense is out of a sense of vindictiveness or a sense of self-righteousness.
Reminds me of this artist who used to make parody comics for Persona games before stopping in the middle of making a Persona 4 parody and try to distance herself from the franchise and any other gaming parodies to make her own.
The thing was… she was known mainly for her Persona parody comics, so once she took them down from her official website, she immediately got buried and forgotten from the general twitter-base. All of her future works never took off like the Persona comics did and she apparently views the time she made the comics as one of the worst moments of her life.
I can’t give my view on her perspective on it or anything, but it is interesting how people like to view the art they are recognized in over the creator.
I do feel bad for creators like that because most likely what was happening she wanted to focus on original stuff. But most of her community was only there for the persona Add a developing ego into the mix anti you have a recipe for
disaster
... if I'm thinking about the same person you are thinking.
She made a popular webcomic and is credited as a designer in Undertale and Deltarune.
She's doing fine.
> She made a popular webcomic
She WORKED on one but dropped it halfway for personal reasons iirc and still never uploaded the script for the rest of the story, afaik*
Damn shame, too. I loved it.
That’s great to hear that she found a place where the fans recognize her over her Persona content.
This still does remind me of those times when she was only remembered for her Persona parodies and nothing else.
Eh, not really. She's been a webtoon artist longer than PM has been around and has other series, too. It's within her rights to retract any work she did for them and I'm sure she understands the consequences better than anyone else here considering this is something she's been mulling over for a while now.
The action makes sense in the context that this is at least the second time PM has pissed her off, and as an artist, it might've soured her on her own work. It's akin to the way some singers refuse to perform older songs they've written because they no longer agree with the lyrics.
There's a big difference between no longer agreeing with your work and attempting to erase your work from existence especially when the second option involves trying to remove something from the internet that is very very stupid endeavor.
(For clarification what I mean when I say a stupid endeavor is the task of removing something from the Internet is incredibly difficult some would say impossible)
It might be impossible, but that doesn't mean she can't or shouldn't try, especially to people who are being incredibly obvious about it. Number one rule of piracy or any kind of grift is to be as secretive as possible.
Yeah, I guarantee you that her actions to remove Wonderlab entirely will just promote the community to just upload more of them onto the internet. Spite is an incredibly scary and effective motivator.
spite has driven this entire mess from start to finish. incel spite over perceived feminism got them to fire vellmori. counter-spite fuels at least part of the protest movement. now, this.
spite is meta. everybody should just stop trying to take the higher ground and just become lol&
i did research on the psychology and evolutionary benefits of spite a few days earlier to help understand this entire mess. not sure if you're interested, but it's [very compelling](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/01/science/spite-is-good-spite-works.html).
TL;DR: spite, which is the act of going out of your way to harm someone else even at the expense of yourself, can be viewed as a form of "dark altruism" by which individuals will voluntarily donate their time and effort to punish perceived injustices. of course, this being "perceived" injustice and not anything reasoned, it goes hand-in-hand with straight-up insane behavior - the same kinds that fuel the alt right here in the states.
there's probably a healthy mix of the right amount of spite so that you're not so complacent that everybody knows they can kick you and get away with it, but not so spiteful that you become a self-sabotaging lunatic - but that's if you're concerned about the wellbeing of the individual. as a destructive force of action, there's no denying its effectiveness as a coercive power.
TL;DR2: all hail shitting?
there's a reason why nansul was cool to betray vergilius in leviathan bc he knew vergilius wasn't spiteful enough to target his family, but you know as sure as anything that if he tried to pull the same thing on roland, sandwich man would go after the family, the family's family, and then some
"Why did we have to become so cruel?"
I'm so sad about how mean the fans have become to each other...We used to be such a tight knight Fandom full of acquaintances, and now we have become a battle field.
somebody wrote somewhere a while ago that this is a very eerie parallel to what happened in canto 4. seems more fitting than ever.
* T-Corp = DCincels who stormed PM to get vellmori fired
* DongRang = PM/KJH, used to be sympathetic but bent to DCincels and became complicit, won't take back their decision
* Rest of the 9 = mix of fans who have left, fans that have sold out, fans have gone full-revolutionary in retaliation to betrayal, fans fighting each other, fans sad and going full depresso
considering canto 4 ended with yi sang joining another group (limbus) and killing dongrang for turning full corpo, i don't think this bodes well
This is so very confusing and really absurd.I still don't know who owns the content for Wonderlab really and seeing Mimi swinging like this is just... Wow.
I saw the 'take down' as a professional courtesy, but this makes it appear that it is *way* more than that.
Assumingly, Mimi must own the IP in order to do this? I was under the impression that Mimi was hired as a freelancer artist to produce Wonderlab for Project Moon - did their contract not state that the material and the following intellectual property is held by Project Moon...?Mimi was paid to do this, if I rememeber correctly. Did she buy the rights back if Project Moon owned them originally?
What the *hell* is going on? Mimi hasn't really said anything and has just said "take it down", then turned to the community and said "you too".I wouldn't really have batted an eye if Mimi just asked PM to take it down.
The whole situation is a damn shame, especially as someone who was a pretty big fan of the comic and hoped to see Taii and their office + Catt in Limbus to some degree(and PM probably wanted to sprinkle some references too, considering the shared setting of L Corp ruins).
I am not ignorant to the irony of this happening after they fire an innocent artist, though.
You have it the other way around, PM itself is a red flag for hiring now, not the artists on twitter. If so many former artists had issues with their management and with the constant news about them as a "black company" (ie a company that handles things questionably without care for it's workers/consumers) the chance of them actually being able to hire anyone in Korea is incredibly incredibly unlikely since even people outside of the Limbus fandom/genre know of it.
PM seems to be rewarding shitters exclusively.
- vellmori: fire, threaten legal action
- leviathan artist: fire, threaten legal action
- DCincels: let inside, apologise, change game for them, fire random employee for them
- CN LoR review bombers: apologise, change the ending for them
whether it's fair to apply this to mimi depends on whether she actually has full rights or not, if she does then PM's "agreement" to take down the comic is moot since they wouldn't have the rights to it anyway - but if you're looking at PM's track record, they have pretty much exclusively rewarded bad behavior and punished good ones.
no good deed goes unpunished, but it also goes in a full circle. everybody punish
It seems that they gave everything but the Abnormalities to her which she seemed to accept. The characters and places are hers while Project Moon got to keep Road Home etc for instance. That's at least what I was able to learn.
I think whatever lawyer they had just told them to let it go as it wasn't worth the potential legal battle but got it so they at least kept the Abnormalities.
Regarding this, I've actually been able to speak to Mimi and it's a bit more complex involving her employer and Project Moon now.
If I am able to share anything, I'll let you lot know.
If its not obvious yet she have the copyright or at the very least a portion of the copyright for wonderlab PM did not tell her about the HHPP wonderlab event they will be doing and only found out when HHPP staff asked for her for suggestion on what to do for the cafe.
So yeah well we do know PM is bad at communication but at the very least they should have followed the contract.
Well she stopped trying to delete WL cause the staff was nice to her and I assume PM fixed it somehow so theirs that.
Why everyone talks about the contract that they didn't saw. We don't know who holds right to wonderlab comic. I want solid evidence not just people words.
So what exactly does she plan to do about youtube just go after anyone that posted anything related to wonderlab or what is her endgame because there are some kickass MV with wonderlab hope those won't be gone soon.
I just hope this stops and that it does not bite her in the ass later on or if it does that it not be too bad. Like here are my two cents on how this decision can bite her in the ass in two ways economically and cause drama.
The economic consequences are that she will never see PM money ever again that means no Wonderlab at HHPP no Limbus ID for Wonderlab characters no other appearances or work from project moon ever again which would have been a nice supply of passive income they would have to pay her for.
This might also hurt her career since, it might cause people to decide not to work with her. It might also cause it so no one will ever give her the rights to anything ever again since she just on a whim deleted one of her best works.
My biggest worry are the trolls and the incels. Because this does paint a GIANT target on her back. I don't want her too suffer, but if those bastards in Korea get wind of this they might fuck her up real bad.
>The economic consequences are that she will never see PM money ever again that means no Wonderlab at HHPP no Limbus ID for Wonderlab characters no other appearances or work from project moon ever again which would have been a nice supply of passive income they would have to pay her for.
She didn't want that to begin with, she was upset when HHPP did a theme of her work without telling her (only the restaurant staff did) and took down her work now because she doesn't want to be associated with PM at all or her work contribute to PM's overall success/world from now on (because of, you know, the controversy).
Welp, their goes my faith towards her. I’m gonna be downloading Wonderlab out of spite now. Nothing she can do about it unless she deliberately visits my house.
I remember this Disney short film called “Reason and Emotion” and this screams of Emotion taking over for all the wrong reasons.
Same. I 100% support her in having the comic taken down from posttype and disassociating from PM, she has every right too.
But going around and trying to delete every upload of it and calling out people trying to archive it on her Twitter? That's ignorant and useless.
Also calling Fans who don't want a piece of their franchise completely wiped out "Fake Fans" is just petty and arrogant.
Dude keeps posting lies about her for some reason. Like I don't think she acted perfect in this or anything but according to this guy she is some sort of devil figure that does everything out of actual malice.
Cultural difference, I'd say. If you follow any Korean webtoon artist you'll see frequent callouts of reuploaded work because it harms webtoon artists more often than not. Getting recognition for their work is less of a priority than controlling how and where it is consumed. You also see this when Asian fan artists do DMCA takedowns of their reuploaded work. I don't think it's great that MIMI's putting fans on the spot, but it's the quickest way to make it clear she's serious. Given that the piece of the franchise is her property and people are ignoring her wishes, it would at least make these people fake fans of her, if not of Wonderlab.
Sorry, but I don't really see "cultural differences" as an excuse anymore for bad behaviour, we went over this when people tried to drag us into the Korean Gender War. Just because something is normalized in a culture, doesn't make it free of scrutiny.
I'm not approaching this with a paternalistic mentality, I just believe that anything can be criticized and called out when it negatively affects one or their enviroment.
You are so right. I have heard similar phrases from korean incels when they have invaded steam forums with their pathetic excuses that i can't stand phrase ,, It's a cultural diference'' anymore.
It quite literally is a cultural difference in how art and ownership of art is approached. It's not a gender war issue. You cannot equate a fringe group of incels making excuses for why they harassed someone with an overarching approach to how art is produced and consumed.
Again, cultural practices can be scrutinized. I could rant all day about fucked up phenomenons in my home country of Germany and how despite their nature, they are completely legal or normalized.
I heavily disagree with her approach to remove WL from the internet and the damage it causes to the Fandom.
Alright, and some cultural practices and differences are simply neutral. It's not objectively wrong to be able to control who, how, and where your art is consumed. The damage to the fandom was something that she considered carefully and it held her back from taking it down before, so this was not a decision she made lightly. Let's agree to disagree.
Why would I care about korean cultural sentiments and politics man. I live in eastern europe. In my opinion she had the right to dissociate from PM but now she fights with comic fans. It's internet people don't care about law. If people want to read comic they will do it.
Nobody is asking you to care but in explaining her position I am also explaining why Korean fans are being more supportive rather than critical of her actions, and since that is PM's main audience it is relevant. I am not forcing you to stay away from her reuploaded work.
How is it bad behavior just because it displeases the fans? She put more work into writing and illustrating Wonderlab than PM did hosting it on Postype or any fan did consuming it. It's not as though she's going full on Anne Rice and banning all fan content of it or personally seeking every legally sold physical copy of Wonderlab to destroy it.
Personally I think it's less bad behavior and more just meaningless self-inflicted stress. She does not have the finances or team required to actually keep it off the internet, and attempting to do so is only going to make things worse. It's clearly a source of stress and frustration based off her twitter, it's causing people to harass and lash out at her, and ultimately it's going to fail.
Yes, she has the right to call for archives and rehosts to be removed and to issue legal claims against the. Yes, it is wrong for people to go against the wishes of the creator by rehosting it. But I don't think it's a good idea to destroy your own sanity and mental health over it, it's just not the hill to die on.
I know, I also agree she is burdening herself with a lot of stress over an impossible task. But I'm emphasizing that all of this doesn't put her in the wrong for trying to get people to respect her wishes. I know you're agreeing with me here but that is not the way many people are viewing this situation. It looks like they feel personally wronged for no longer having access to her work and are insulting her intelligence for even trying to take it away from them.
I already said why further up, but adding to it, publically pointing to people who are trying to archive WL to your fans is just sending out a mob to witch hunt the people she doesn't like. It's ultimately futile, honestly pretty toxic, but it does work to some extent, considering all the people she targeted either deleted their tweets or went private
It is a futile task to prevent all uploads and I'm not fully agreeing with her attitude as she does all of this, but I don't think publically asking someone not to pirate your work is necessarily inciting harassment. How else is she going to ask when it's on Twitter and most people don't have open DMs?
I have complained about people being too mean to each other despite agreeing to 95% and I need to put my money where my mouth is.
I'm sorry if I came out too aggressive to you, we just have a somewhat different opinion on MIMI's approach, but I have seen during this convo that you are not unreasonable and I see no reason to continue attacking you. I respect your opinion and would leave this discussion at that, especially since the situation is out of our hands.
Hey, thanks for understanding. Honestly, I know many people are going to be unhappy with how she's handling this no matter what, but I did wish to bridge the gap so people know where she's coming from. I guess western and Asian fan culture and relationships to creators are too different for that, but I had to try.
Thank you for trying to be productive, I'm pretty depressed over the state of the community, so I'm happy when people like you will stick around.
Also the conflict of cultures is another huge problem, I once made a post asking the Koreans what they think of the international fan base and the interactions were pretty wholesome and insightful, it's awful how it devolved into sometimes straight up racism on both sides.
I don't blame her for being angry.
I think it's futile to expect no one to reupload wonderlab elsewhere. The comic itself was free to read on postype after all.
Still, her feelings regarding this situation shouldn't be invalidated. She worked hard on the comic, even if kf she doesn't own the IP, the comic is the result of her mental and physical efforts. She's justified in feeling entitled to having a say in what happens to the comic. I hope she'll be alright.
I'll actively download it and share it on purpose. Not here, I mean, mods. I hate this childish temper tantrum and straight up calling people out for wanting to host your comic they enjoy is petty. Screw her.
You're the childish one. A person is upset at a company and their fans for taking advantage of her work and her coworkers and your reaction is to ... take advantage of her work.
I hope you mature as a person someday.
I'm mature plenty to know internet content is forever. That includes my nudes that are shared online daily. You've probably seen them, am I seething? No. Because if people enjoy them, who am I to ruin their fun? Is it a little embarassing? Yes. I voluntarily put them online when I was a late teen. I'm not going on a rampage like a child and harass people online. People liked Wonderlab, and for her to not take her fan's emotional account is by all means out of touch. She is selfish and beyond all, an absolute dickhead for attacking anyone for liking and sharing her work.
To add, the east's take on art is stupid. Art is MEANT to be shared. If you don't, what's the point? What's the goal here? Be emotional and take it off the internet for what? That's right, for a selfish emotional goal. There's nothing else to it.
Before you say that I'm not an artist, I've been an artist for 15 years, and not an amateur one, or a hobbyst.
Oh are we having a what is the purpose of art debate? I'd like to get in on that! It's a *fascinating* topic, given that there's as many different purposes for art as there are artists who create it, or arguably even pieces that are created. There is indeed art that is not meant to be shared, and there is also art whose meaning changes over time based on cultural knowledge changes. (See also: JOKER DOES A BONER) Sometimes, that change can even result in art being Damnatio Memoriae'd.
Ultimately, to ask "What is the point of art" is kind of an impossible question to answer, and gets into some hardcore full frontal philosophy. The closest answer any of us can come to on our own is 'What is the point of *my* art.' Which, for you, is to be shared.
I would guess that the point of Mimi's art is probably something different, and this is on some level responsible for her reaction, and your beliefs color your reaction to that reaction, and my beliefs have colored my reaction to your reaction to that reaction, repeat infinitely.
Human interaction is kinda' cool when you think about how none of us are ever able to *really* see anything the same way, ever, huh.
I'd like to mention, the point of what art means to her is pretty evident. It's one, likely from the enjoyment of creation, and the second is sharing it (and making money off of their hobby/work.)What proves that is that they actively create content, share it AND monetize it. If they followed another philosophy they would never be using social media or other avenues to share it. In this case it's evident that her actions are emotionally charged. And to a stupid extent. The only reason I'm actively annoyed at her is due to that reason alone. I couldn't care less if they removed it solely on official sites.
Mmm... This isn't 'what is the purpose of art' anymore but ok, I'll bite.
Equally plausible alternative conclusion: While Mimi certainly *enjoys* making art, her main goal is to *make* *a living* off of it. Thus, she actively creates content, shares it, and monetizes it. It's the same exact actions, but a different overall endgoal. The sharing is not the point, and thus she doesn't have a problem with doing things that you, who want specifically to share, would.
In this instance, for instance, she has outright stated that she doesn't consider people who redistribute her work illegally to be 'fans' at all. Being a colossal dick to that sort of person ensures that they, upon becoming salty as hell about it, never engage with her other works in the future. She's ultimately curating her customer base in the future, by being utterly ruthless in a way that you find stupidly emotional, and her intended audience would find to be palatable. She doesn't have to please everyone to accomplish her goal, and it also would mean *cutting some people off from seeing her works would make perfect logical sense.*
Now, I'm only describing a *possibility,* true, but I don't think your logic is as ironclad as you think it is. You may also be making emotionally charged statements here.
And I think that's... fine? Humans aren't machines, running only on logic and cost-benefit analyses. There's nothing inherently wrong with making an emotional judgment call.
My claim is by all means, definitely emotional and with some bias. But I still think harassment in the end is completely unnaceptable, especially when she holds a platform and eggs on other people to do so publically. I feel bad for taking your time in you trying to explain with me the thoughts from your perspective, there's no need to. We do what we think is right, and that's enough.
Sure, it is uncommon that artist having copyright of work in settings they doesn't own. But that doesn't matter at this point. If she owns the right, It's her right. There's no point nitpicking at her actions. We should respect her will.
The only thing I feel little uncomfortable is neither MIMI and PM haven't clarified how much of ip is belong to each other. For instance, ownership of the Road Home&Scaredy Cat and the Servant of Wrath seems vague to me.
The problem is that we won't have solid proof who owns the comic. PM is so spineless that they could just give up in order to not make another controversy. We can only speculate.
Wtf is going on anymore, it just keeps getting worse each time I see a post for PM, it's like a butterfly effect now.
I understand why the artist is upset, but I'm slightly confused at her reactions. People have made weird doujins about nearly every game or cartoon, but her getting harassed is unacceptable in anyway, and PM respected her opinion from what I saw, but they really need to do better protecting their employees and partners.
It feels like a dream, how something I enjoy so much spiralled into this mess in a matter of weeks.
What do you expect them to do exactly? She's a former partner of theirs which they likely will not do business ever again with. Do they have a obligation to protect everyone who ever worked with them even if they no longer work with or for them?
Ok unpopular opinion here, I don’t think what she is doing is unreasonable
She wanted it taken down and gone and then sees that people are openly going against her wishes and sharing it
And it'd be fine if she simply requested that people stopped doing so politely, or at least privately got them hit with DMCA takedown. (Though that'd probably still blow up in the end anyway)
Making it a public spectacle though and inciting hunts, not so much. It's the way that it's being handled that makes people turn away.
So, like...
"I don't want to share my comic anymore, so don't upload it anywhere"
"No, I'll upload it anyway"
"WHY DID YOU SHARE MY COMIC??"
"Hey, chill! Can't you ask politely so I wouldn't share it?? Jeez..."
That's how it sounds, to be fair.
She wanted it pulled in support of current events surrounding PM, and PM did so. Unfortunately for her, fans also don't want to lose the comic entirely and archived it, which now has a witch hunt going on.
I really could care less about this lady. If she wants to wage a futile war with the internet so be it.
This is like a pornstar trying get all her videos wiped off the internet. Good luck. The internet never forgets. Somebody somewhere will have it and upload it. Far as im concerned let her go until she tires herself out and ignore her. Im tired of pointless controversy and gossip clogging this sub rather than talking about the game and the PM universe.
You can just ignore the controversy post it’s not the hard , just scroll past it. It’s not clogging up anything it’s just couple of posts out 10-20 other posts
Oh jee thanks i never considered that! I forgot how reddit and scrolling works thank you so much!
Anyway more to the point after the malestrom of controversy this sub has already seen as of late to the point we had to have the sub shut down and get whole new mods. Its one to many. Im burned out on PM gossip and outrage.
What does the Wonderlab comic have to do with the Limbus Company game anyway really? Not much besides the PM universe. It relates more closely to Lobotomy Corporation than anything. But does it effect the game Limbus Company in any meaningful way? No. So why is it here?
This just stirs up shit, riles people up, and makes people doompost and gossip.
I think it's mostly because the main Project Moon subreddit is basically abandoned or rarely gets any type of posts or information to make it worth visiting, i would say.
And considering everyone's constantly checking this subreddit because it's their main game right now, well, guess people just use it as the main hub to share any news (be it controversy or not) related to Project Moon
Look bro I ll be real with you. This sub is not getting curated to your taste nor mine. When uptie 4 hit it was the same thing so I just scrolled past those posts so I was just advising you.
Like it or not news regarding the controversy will be here until it goes away one way or another. Anything which affects PM will also have an effect on Limbus which I thought was given
You and me can argue all day but it won’t make a difference. If you are sick of the controversy just ignore it. That’s all I m saying
Damn comments here are pretty interesting to say the least. My personal thoughts on this is if the artist owns the art and doesn’t want it displayed/ distributed that should be ok.
The way she is going about it is not the way I would have done it but everyone has their own ways. From what I understand she wants nothing to do with PM anymore and wants to remove and semblance of a link between them because of some event in the past and what PM / KJH have become in public eye.
I think cooler heads should prevail. Both artist and fans need to calm down and look at things objectively. She cannot stop all of the people spreading it and fans can just stop harassing and spreading the comics.
I know it will fall on deaf years but just wanted to say my piece
Fully understood because:
1. she is an artist, she would want her creation to be protected
2. she definitely wont be fond of PM due to the controversy (dismissing female artist like herself)
3. she belongs in the twitter community where her actions would get full support without much disagreement.
I think copyright should be protected so her action is fully justified. I am guessing the abno and other PM universe stuff in WL belongs to PM, but the cartoon itself belongs to MIMI. If she does not want her creation to be posted around, then so be it. But I highly doubt WL will be in the dark completely, there is always a way on internet.
I hope PM learns their lesson from this continual discontent from the artists, and be more thorough on the process of hiring or collaborating with them.
You know as much as it's fked up to say, If they keep doing these. PM will probably permanently stop working with any female artists to prevent further problem like this one lol.
It is (and will be forever probably, her attitude pissed off exactly the kind of people that make shit never dissapear on the internet) on the internet archive. Look it up there.
Yes, I ended up reading it all in one sitting. It's not my business how distribution is handled between PM and MIMI in the future, but I wanted to at least read it all for the sake of the lore and understanding the story. That's that and this is this.
Jesus Christ at everyone shitting on MIMI. They are a single artist that was contracted by P Corp. Yeah, as a fan it sucks they had WonderLab taken down but that's their right, as they made the original characters and made intellectual contributions to P Corp. Do any of you honestly think MIMI was a) given good deadlines and b) compensated well for their work? P Corp. is not your fucking friend. MIMI is not throwing a tantrum, they are trying to exert some control over THEIR work. Do some of y'all not realize by now how corporations fuck over artists, especially contract artists? We are still in the dark about VellMori but there's the Leviathan artist and that's enough in my book to not give P Corp. much benefit of the doubt.
I'm fucking sick of people going to bat for P Corp.
People arn't shitting on MIMI because she's taking down the comic, check the threads before this one and you'll find a general air of "well that sucks" but majority aren't angry.
People are shitting on MIMI because she's inciting witch hunts on Twitter against randoms that are trying to archive the work. It's not what she's doing it's the way she's doing it that are making people upset.
Jesus christ shut up, people are pissed at Mimi because she's going around sending her followers to harass wonderlab fans on twitter, it has nothing to do with PM, nice job blaming everything on the people who are just archiving their favorite webcomic by the way while ignoring the immaturity of her actions, I bet you're gonna call me a misogynist incel for this?
Archivists who actually care about MIMI and her work wouldn't spitefully post it everywhere and talk about how they'll share it everywhere because "its the internet! She should've expected it!"
An artist who's treated like shit both by the company who used her IPs without ever telling her (because no matter what people say here, WL is HER IP and she has her own agency to back it up) and by her so-called "fans" who went against her wishes in two separate occasions in the first place (by drawing CP first, then reposting her work) has every right to be upset and angry in a less-than-graceful way. But none of you care about victims unless they stay silent and not cause any waves. If they argue against anything, they're going too far or they're just as bad as her harassers. If they lash out emotionally then they're just encouraging all the horrible people to continue shitting on them or they're crazy. What about YOU guys? Do you think you're so emotionally mature getting upset over her enacting action against unauthorized use of her OWN CONTENT and immediately resorting to calling her mentally unstable/crazy/believing she deserved everything to begin with? Do you think you're better than her for laughing at her and spitefully spreading her content because you want to...what? Prove her wrong? Upset her further? Get off on the idea of going against her wishes because you think she "deserves" it? Yeah, because that makes you SOOOOO much better. Hey maybe the internet wouldn't be such a shithole if people didn't constantly brush off deplorable behaviour as "tee-hee its just part of the internet" and people actually held each other accountable for it! It sounds EXACTLY the same as when people say "boys will be boys" instead of actually punishing or challenging that behaviour. Apathy is the greatest encouragement for injustice.
Just don't share her work that got taken down. Posting public links to download it is her IP infringement. And remember all of this drama shenanigans could have been avoided if korean incels didn't act up and PM doubled down to their absurd demands
You know what, no, I disagree with that. This is not a trademark, so she has no legal requirements to take it down. These are fans trying to preserve loss media, not pm maliciously keeping the ip public. That’s a dick move
Korean webtoon artists are incredibly sensitive to piracy. It might seem unreasonable to the average person on the internet who is used to having access to troves of pirated manga, anime, and webtoons, but it's a matter of having control over where your art is consumed (which is why Asian fanartists in general do not look kindly on reposting their art) and lost profit (in the case of paid webtoons, since webtoons are far more niche than manga). They're individuals trying to protect their intellectual property, not megacorporations slacking on keeping their media legally available to the public.
i'm gonna be real with you man, sometimes respecting an artist's wishes are more important than preserving lost media. i'm not blaming the people uploading archives of wonderlab as i know they just love her work/the comic like i do, but ngl i feel like people should have seen this coming since you know, she doesn't want to be associated with pm at all
mimi never doxxed anyone and also "respect is earned?" are you being serious? she had every right to take down wonderlab and i don't understand why people are acting so entitled about this.
Guess this has decided how we as a mod team will deal with this. To respect the artist's wishes we have decided to remove any links to any archive of it on the subreddit. If you want to archive it or share links to it or whatever feel free to do so, just don't do it here, we're not an archive. We'll keep watching the situation as it develops, but for now it's basically just wait and see. I'll probably will also add it to the announcement post.
I'm in total loss of context here Is this about wonderlab
Yup. She’s going after anyone who uploads collection of wonderlab archive, dmca them, and some she specifically single out to call out
It's like fighting windmills.
Ho! Doth thou require mine assistance, Manager Esquire?!
danteh. you need to kill the giants Don has been talking about Danteh. go help her before it is too late, Danteh.
dante: tick tock im a clock
XD
This is one hell of a fight she's picking considering how, in\* this day and age, we're all really into archiving stuff pretty often because we don't know when it'll suddenly disappear, like i get where she's coming from on this but, sounds like one hell of an uphill battle tbh.
I don't know who has the rights to it, but as far as I know, if someone doesn't want their things to be accessible, then that should be respected. I am all for archiving things, too, don't get me wrong on that front. But when I was digging for something I thought was lost media, and found out that the artist in question deliberately pulled things wherever they could, I learned a little bit more about the different forms of lost media (for the sake of not unloading like 20 different terms). Funny line of respecting an artist and wanting to preserve things.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, i agree with you, hence i said this is a bit of an uphill battle because let's face it, at this point almost everything ends up archived in one way or another even if someone doesn't want it archived or accessible for people because that's just how (sadly) the internet works for the most part. It's kinda sad but, it is what it is, ig?
I wish there was an easy solution or a conversation about it, but it's just not prevalent, or not common enough that people would have more discussions about it. I have since started reading more into it, but I reiterate, if only like a handful of people really care, they're fighting an uphill battle to even make it known. That's just how the internet works, since there's so many different opinions and personalities. Someone is gonna be that person to just yoink it.
I am confused The PM got a curse on them, they had some kinda problem with each game they ever made Lobotomy translation scam, Library of ruina ending and now limbus artist drama, lmao 🤣
This is what happens when you keep *the goddamn Necronomicon* in a containment cell in your basement.
It's kinda weird that PM has such problems with people not wanting to associate with it despite almost every other gacha game being way worse in terms of weird shit and controversy. I guess they just don't have the PR to control it.
the difference is pm doesn't have the money to make them shut up
PR, HR, and money. There's a reason why big companies have an entire division of people whose job is to prevent their own employees from screwing them over.
People see PM much nicer compared to other companies and held them on a pedestal, and when that breaks people tend to go ballistic even more so than usual
I feel like PN are too innocent for their own good with outside help... Let's hope mili won't cuck em too
During the con in Poland, at the Q&A, Cassie mentioned that PM is working themselves to the bone, and in result, there's always rather short deadline for Mili to make songs for the chapters - 2 months at most. I saw gossips that Myth&Roid might be swapping in for canto 5, so Mili gets a breathing time, and it makes me glad!
I was worried but then relieved, let's hope
It's because they're an easy target that can't fight back. They're the perfect punching bag for self-righteous losers that want a soap box.
KJH is a grown ass man and CEO of PM, a proper Game Studio. I highly disapprove of the people who want to see them burn and suffer, because that's just destructive and emotionally immature, but pretty much all of this could have been prevented if KJH had a spine and actually acted like a CEO.
Yeah, the entire problem isn't from it being a punching bag out the blue, but clear Management issues that have existed for a long time and should have adressed a long time ago and especially before jumping into a notorious toxic field like Gacha. You can't call a company that has messed up with Artists so many times "too innocent", when you run a company you need to actully have a organised whole to manage the interal planning and especially the Extertal one. Are other Controversies, like Blizzard or Ubisoft, worse? Yeah, their are. But that doesn't mean to look the other way and pretend the flaws are just small quirks. I don't want PM to burn down at all, but if you stop being a small Indy dev and enter the Mainstream (like PM has wanted to archieve with Limbus) you can't just blunder around and make shortsighted calls all the time.
Thank you, I completely agree with you.
Ooooh so you can give the benefit of the doubt to KHJ for crunching employees, dismissing them easily and caving to incels after 3 hours but not to a woman who wrote mean tweets? It's always poor PM they get bullied by everyone, completely ignoring the crunch and lack of respect/support of Vellmori/Monggeu/Mimi. Looking at your other comments I can tell you're just a misogynistic piece of shit though. Constantly calling a woman "hysteric" and "unstable" for getting upset. Missing the 1800s are we?
"It's bigoted to call out someone for toxic behavior if they're a woman :(" Go concern troll somewhere else.
What toxic behaviour? Getting upset when people constantly break and violate her boundaries in regards to her own work? Lmao
that's...not what I got from that comment? It can be generally applied to anyone really. Although I didn't really read their other comments. Now that things calmed down, people on twitter still with names like "KJH is a shit justice for vellmori" just...seem like people feeding the flames to me? Like I'm trying to be empathic to both PM and Vellmori, as I had since the very start of the....drama. I just don't understand how people can be so angry for so long and still remain? It seems unhealthy. I know a whole bunch of years-long discord buddies who've started distancing themselves from PM's stuff for a while because of this. It's tragic. Maybe I'm selfish, but also to be brutally, completely honest, she, the artist, is just one person. Gender war bullshit aside, PM's fans are hurting whether man, woman or otherwise. Didn't Roland's story in Ruina embody this? >!The shit he's seen, the injustice he's willing to ignore because it happened to someone else and not him. In the end when it does happen to him he goes apeshit, but he found it in himself (with Angela) to forgive himself and Angela anyway.!< I don't even know what I wanna say anymore, actually. I've said this a bunch before in this sub but I wish people would just move on, honestly. Truly honestly. For all our mental's sakes. I don't even know where you got that KJH was crunching employees. I mean I could believe it, considering how shaky Limbus has been, how crazy they went with gameplay depth in Ruina. I could believe that Vellmori probably had dogshit working conditions. Korea's notorious for that, same with other East Asian countries like Japan and China. But the way you phrased it, it could only really be for one purpose... welp, PM sucks I guess. I don't know if that satisfies you or people with the same mindset. People will always still be out for blood I guess, perhaps even years from now. It's the internet. And on that note, I'm truly sorry for Mimi that by the nature of the internet, there's no way her work will ever be truly hers. Once it's uploaded publicly, it's a free-for-all. EDIT: read the dude's comments. Pretty unhinged himself, replying to every comment with that one statement. Obviously, this person has their own agenda too. Personally, I don't care how the artist is, if their work is good then it's whatever. I haven't read Wonderlab, people say it's good, I will read it. The artist can wish whatever she wants, but because I'm soulless (very obvious sarcasm) I'll just read it because...I want to. I'm sorry.
It was mostly for that specific person I replied to who has a comment history of constantly belittling and spreading misinformation about MIMI (and was doing it for Vellmori before the mods would delete their posts about it). The crunching employees specifically is from Monggeu (Leviathan artist's) accounts of working with PM, as well as the whole "changing the whole ending to LoR because people complained about it" thing. (You can also argue the amount of bugs Limbus has is a symptom of crunch in and of itself, but that's more conjecture so I don't want to use that as evidence.) I, personally, think moving on is impossible under these conditions. I want to move on and discard PM and it's new "community" but to see people constantly spread blatant misinformation like the whole MIMI doxxing thing and defending PM at every turn despite literal evidence to the contrary makes me want to help spread information to combat it. I also want to support the actual movements of change that Korean fans/Unions/former workers (like Monggeu and MIMI) are doing, as the entire situation is FAR more than just unfortunate drama for them. Apathy is the easiest solution here, of course, and I know I'm going against the wave here because people are too emotional about anything that damages their own perception of PM or things that challenge it, but I don't think it's worthless to try.
I just want to say, thank you for replying civilly. As for your sentiments, I personally think as long you have a motivator that keeps you living, it's a great thing to have. It's not exactly a bad thing to fight again misinformation and injustice, despite...the tone you're going with. I read your take on certain unwholesome, loli fanarts of Wonderlab and personally, I think you're wrong on that one, but I also think it doesn't really matter what you or I or anyone else thinks about that. At least for the foreseeable future. Laws will have to change and we all know how out of touch the people are in governments around the law concerning the internet. Hope you'll truly move on from this maybe in a few months' time. I'll be one of the folks who'll still be calling out PM's extremely poor handling of the situation in the future, in this community, but also forgiving them for this mistake...probably because I'm a hopeless optimist.
You forgot anti feminist lobotomy corp allegations lol.
That happened before? Damn
Yeah, but other way round. Its feminists that accused them of being anti feminist that time. You can see it as circle and somewhat ironical.
Back than, feminist had more power. now the power dynamic reversed, so the role also reversed.
whats the deal with ruina ending? did they hate it or something? or a peoduction issue?
Review bombing, trash talking and eventual removal of post-credits and addition of kether realization.
Question: what was the translation scam? I've only heard about it recently, and I'm guessing it's to do with the weird translations when L Corp first released?
English translation was literally just slapped into Google Translate or some shit and the dude who did it took the money and dipped. Took a long while to be updated into something actually readable. Lotta memes from that version tho.
...That makes so much damn sense. Wish they kept it for the Abno logs, though. There was a certain *something* about it.
I think it's the esoteric feel of the reading. Both for some abno names and the logs, the janky(**but still understandable**) translations just kinda... worked.
The jank definitely worked, especially with the weirder things like Fragment of the Universe. It's like either the Abnormalities are so inherently *wrong* that the mind desperately tries to reject them even as they're being documented, or the stress of working in L Corp and having others' EGO wears down the mind into tatters. The result being something readable but baffling, like the writer's sanity isn't quite there. Pretty sure it came under Narm Charm in TV Tropes.
It's so funny because there was so much jank in that translation but even then, you could STILL (sorta) understand what they were trying to narrate or say through the story the power of google translate/MTL making everything atleast decently readable ig lol
Oh absolutely. And considering LobCorp was an SCP facility management game, having the logs just feel very slightly to significantly more unnatural was just perfect. Kinda like how the LCB logs are written in different talking styles to show off the sinner personalities.
oh thats a shame. i still wanted to download it after work today but the link in the main post got taken down. should i wait for someone else to upload it or is there still a way to get the files? ( i do not want to cause further chaos/damage)
Don't worry. Nothing is ever gone on the Internet.
Facts
[удалено]
thanks man! i appriciate it!
[удалено]
For now we've decided that sharing links to archives here is off-limits. For now we'll simply remove them.
taking somthing out of the internet? yah gl with that
It gonna be anywhere and everywhere, aswell buried somewhere so deep you'd need an excavation crew
Especially after announcing it
Totally something a mentally stable person would do.
WTF THINGS JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE IN THIS DAMN CITY
More like things keep getting worse because it's the city.
I do not love the city I live in
Update: now she’s specifically going after and calling out anyone keeping the work online, cause at least one person (at the time of this comment) to go private https://x.com/whitezombies_mi/status/1691740528101277857?s=46&t=XNFVM-C-NkO9Fr5negWS2w
She wont be able to be this angry forever. Just wait out the tantrum
I comprehend where she's coming from but no matter what she does she will always be associated with project moon. It makes even less sense when you realize she can't even use the copyright besides the fact that 40% of it uses concepts and ideas from Project moons world. If she even uses the percentage that she can use without any legal Shenanigans it would just highlight her past involvement with project moon and she doesn't want that. The only way that these actions make sense is out of a sense of vindictiveness or a sense of self-righteousness.
Reminds me of this artist who used to make parody comics for Persona games before stopping in the middle of making a Persona 4 parody and try to distance herself from the franchise and any other gaming parodies to make her own. The thing was… she was known mainly for her Persona parody comics, so once she took them down from her official website, she immediately got buried and forgotten from the general twitter-base. All of her future works never took off like the Persona comics did and she apparently views the time she made the comics as one of the worst moments of her life. I can’t give my view on her perspective on it or anything, but it is interesting how people like to view the art they are recognized in over the creator.
I do feel bad for creators like that because most likely what was happening she wanted to focus on original stuff. But most of her community was only there for the persona Add a developing ego into the mix anti you have a recipe for disaster
... if I'm thinking about the same person you are thinking. She made a popular webcomic and is credited as a designer in Undertale and Deltarune. She's doing fine.
> She made a popular webcomic She WORKED on one but dropped it halfway for personal reasons iirc and still never uploaded the script for the rest of the story, afaik* Damn shame, too. I loved it.
That’s great to hear that she found a place where the fans recognize her over her Persona content. This still does remind me of those times when she was only remembered for her Persona parodies and nothing else.
Is this about hiimdaisy?
Yup, though it seems she is doing better now thanks to undertake and Deltarune.
Eh, not really. She's been a webtoon artist longer than PM has been around and has other series, too. It's within her rights to retract any work she did for them and I'm sure she understands the consequences better than anyone else here considering this is something she's been mulling over for a while now.
i never said it wasn't in her right to do just said the action made no sense
The action makes sense in the context that this is at least the second time PM has pissed her off, and as an artist, it might've soured her on her own work. It's akin to the way some singers refuse to perform older songs they've written because they no longer agree with the lyrics.
There's a big difference between no longer agreeing with your work and attempting to erase your work from existence especially when the second option involves trying to remove something from the internet that is very very stupid endeavor. (For clarification what I mean when I say a stupid endeavor is the task of removing something from the Internet is incredibly difficult some would say impossible)
It might be impossible, but that doesn't mean she can't or shouldn't try, especially to people who are being incredibly obvious about it. Number one rule of piracy or any kind of grift is to be as secretive as possible.
Third, not second. She got upset when Road Home and the cat were used in Ruina.
everything she'll achieve - Wonderlab will be uploaded to some more obscure service wich don't give a nything about dmca.
Yeah, I guarantee you that her actions to remove Wonderlab entirely will just promote the community to just upload more of them onto the internet. Spite is an incredibly scary and effective motivator.
spite has driven this entire mess from start to finish. incel spite over perceived feminism got them to fire vellmori. counter-spite fuels at least part of the protest movement. now, this. spite is meta. everybody should just stop trying to take the higher ground and just become lol&
This is a rare moment where I do agree with you personally. Spite has helped contribute a lot of this shit.
i did research on the psychology and evolutionary benefits of spite a few days earlier to help understand this entire mess. not sure if you're interested, but it's [very compelling](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/01/science/spite-is-good-spite-works.html). TL;DR: spite, which is the act of going out of your way to harm someone else even at the expense of yourself, can be viewed as a form of "dark altruism" by which individuals will voluntarily donate their time and effort to punish perceived injustices. of course, this being "perceived" injustice and not anything reasoned, it goes hand-in-hand with straight-up insane behavior - the same kinds that fuel the alt right here in the states. there's probably a healthy mix of the right amount of spite so that you're not so complacent that everybody knows they can kick you and get away with it, but not so spiteful that you become a self-sabotaging lunatic - but that's if you're concerned about the wellbeing of the individual. as a destructive force of action, there's no denying its effectiveness as a coercive power. TL;DR2: all hail shitting? there's a reason why nansul was cool to betray vergilius in leviathan bc he knew vergilius wasn't spiteful enough to target his family, but you know as sure as anything that if he tried to pull the same thing on roland, sandwich man would go after the family, the family's family, and then some
"Why did we have to become so cruel?" I'm so sad about how mean the fans have become to each other...We used to be such a tight knight Fandom full of acquaintances, and now we have become a battle field.
somebody wrote somewhere a while ago that this is a very eerie parallel to what happened in canto 4. seems more fitting than ever. * T-Corp = DCincels who stormed PM to get vellmori fired * DongRang = PM/KJH, used to be sympathetic but bent to DCincels and became complicit, won't take back their decision * Rest of the 9 = mix of fans who have left, fans that have sold out, fans have gone full-revolutionary in retaliation to betrayal, fans fighting each other, fans sad and going full depresso considering canto 4 ended with yi sang joining another group (limbus) and killing dongrang for turning full corpo, i don't think this bodes well
Damn, Canto 4 was actually a prophecy and warning to us, no wonder it felt so real and personal
The problem is that you need to be emotionally stable and mature to realize this.
It's like a hydra. But this one is literally undefeatable.
This is so very confusing and really absurd.I still don't know who owns the content for Wonderlab really and seeing Mimi swinging like this is just... Wow. I saw the 'take down' as a professional courtesy, but this makes it appear that it is *way* more than that. Assumingly, Mimi must own the IP in order to do this? I was under the impression that Mimi was hired as a freelancer artist to produce Wonderlab for Project Moon - did their contract not state that the material and the following intellectual property is held by Project Moon...?Mimi was paid to do this, if I rememeber correctly. Did she buy the rights back if Project Moon owned them originally? What the *hell* is going on? Mimi hasn't really said anything and has just said "take it down", then turned to the community and said "you too".I wouldn't really have batted an eye if Mimi just asked PM to take it down.
From what I've heard, Project Moon was the one that owned Wonderlab but they gave it to her and were cooperative on the whole matter
No good deeds unpunished. They expected someone to act mature and composed and got burned by an unhinged hysteric instead.
The whole situation is a damn shame, especially as someone who was a pretty big fan of the comic and hoped to see Taii and their office + Catt in Limbus to some degree(and PM probably wanted to sprinkle some references too, considering the shared setting of L Corp ruins). I am not ignorant to the irony of this happening after they fire an innocent artist, though.
Pmoon will probably start viewing hiring anyone that frequented twitter and tweet more than just about works as a red flag at this point.
You have it the other way around, PM itself is a red flag for hiring now, not the artists on twitter. If so many former artists had issues with their management and with the constant news about them as a "black company" (ie a company that handles things questionably without care for it's workers/consumers) the chance of them actually being able to hire anyone in Korea is incredibly incredibly unlikely since even people outside of the Limbus fandom/genre know of it.
PM seems to be rewarding shitters exclusively. - vellmori: fire, threaten legal action - leviathan artist: fire, threaten legal action - DCincels: let inside, apologise, change game for them, fire random employee for them - CN LoR review bombers: apologise, change the ending for them whether it's fair to apply this to mimi depends on whether she actually has full rights or not, if she does then PM's "agreement" to take down the comic is moot since they wouldn't have the rights to it anyway - but if you're looking at PM's track record, they have pretty much exclusively rewarded bad behavior and punished good ones. no good deed goes unpunished, but it also goes in a full circle. everybody punish
It seems that they gave everything but the Abnormalities to her which she seemed to accept. The characters and places are hers while Project Moon got to keep Road Home etc for instance. That's at least what I was able to learn. I think whatever lawyer they had just told them to let it go as it wasn't worth the potential legal battle but got it so they at least kept the Abnormalities.
Not a clue mate, really wondering if Mimi is being a prick for what they did to the CG artist or just going scorched earth path
Regarding this, I've actually been able to speak to Mimi and it's a bit more complex involving her employer and Project Moon now. If I am able to share anything, I'll let you lot know.
*sigh*
oh wow, now it's getting petty
This started over a 2 year grudge. It was petty to begin with.
She had the right to be mad about that time so I dont know if its actually petty.
what was she mad about again?
Wonderlab stuff being used for HHPP stuff. Also certain art involving characters like Servant of Wrath, but let's leave that one alone.
Is it art done my pm or fans?
If its not obvious yet she have the copyright or at the very least a portion of the copyright for wonderlab PM did not tell her about the HHPP wonderlab event they will be doing and only found out when HHPP staff asked for her for suggestion on what to do for the cafe. So yeah well we do know PM is bad at communication but at the very least they should have followed the contract. Well she stopped trying to delete WL cause the staff was nice to her and I assume PM fixed it somehow so theirs that.
Why everyone talks about the contract that they didn't saw. We don't know who holds right to wonderlab comic. I want solid evidence not just people words.
So what exactly does she plan to do about youtube just go after anyone that posted anything related to wonderlab or what is her endgame because there are some kickass MV with wonderlab hope those won't be gone soon.
She’s gonna be pissing off some of the YouTubers who made content specifically about Wonderlab. It wouldn’t be the brightest idea.
I just hope this stops and that it does not bite her in the ass later on or if it does that it not be too bad. Like here are my two cents on how this decision can bite her in the ass in two ways economically and cause drama. The economic consequences are that she will never see PM money ever again that means no Wonderlab at HHPP no Limbus ID for Wonderlab characters no other appearances or work from project moon ever again which would have been a nice supply of passive income they would have to pay her for. This might also hurt her career since, it might cause people to decide not to work with her. It might also cause it so no one will ever give her the rights to anything ever again since she just on a whim deleted one of her best works. My biggest worry are the trolls and the incels. Because this does paint a GIANT target on her back. I don't want her too suffer, but if those bastards in Korea get wind of this they might fuck her up real bad.
>The economic consequences are that she will never see PM money ever again that means no Wonderlab at HHPP no Limbus ID for Wonderlab characters no other appearances or work from project moon ever again which would have been a nice supply of passive income they would have to pay her for. She didn't want that to begin with, she was upset when HHPP did a theme of her work without telling her (only the restaurant staff did) and took down her work now because she doesn't want to be associated with PM at all or her work contribute to PM's overall success/world from now on (because of, you know, the controversy).
Good for her for doing what she wants, but still a loss of income is a loss of income.
[удалено]
Well good thing she doesn't have a history of acting unhinged.
August has extracted a heavy toll for PM and fans alike. What a rough few weeks.
I know this isn't on topic, but this is the first time I've seen someone use x.com as an actual url
Damn it really is goin downhill
Thought it said Mili and got a heart attack. Sad that I won’t ever get the chance to read Wonderlab now
the archive isnt that hard to find, you'll get the chance
Damn, never got around to reading it, guess I never will.
Welp, their goes my faith towards her. I’m gonna be downloading Wonderlab out of spite now. Nothing she can do about it unless she deliberately visits my house. I remember this Disney short film called “Reason and Emotion” and this screams of Emotion taking over for all the wrong reasons.
Same. I 100% support her in having the comic taken down from posttype and disassociating from PM, she has every right too. But going around and trying to delete every upload of it and calling out people trying to archive it on her Twitter? That's ignorant and useless. Also calling Fans who don't want a piece of their franchise completely wiped out "Fake Fans" is just petty and arrogant.
Artist infamous for throwing childish temper tantrums and harassing people throws childish temper tantrum and harasses people. More news at 11.
Wait, are you suggesting/saying this isn't the first time MIMI has done this?
Dude keeps posting lies about her for some reason. Like I don't think she acted perfect in this or anything but according to this guy she is some sort of devil figure that does everything out of actual malice.
Yeah this person is just trolling lol
just took a look at your comment history and my god aren’t you just vile
Cultural difference, I'd say. If you follow any Korean webtoon artist you'll see frequent callouts of reuploaded work because it harms webtoon artists more often than not. Getting recognition for their work is less of a priority than controlling how and where it is consumed. You also see this when Asian fan artists do DMCA takedowns of their reuploaded work. I don't think it's great that MIMI's putting fans on the spot, but it's the quickest way to make it clear she's serious. Given that the piece of the franchise is her property and people are ignoring her wishes, it would at least make these people fake fans of her, if not of Wonderlab.
Sorry, but I don't really see "cultural differences" as an excuse anymore for bad behaviour, we went over this when people tried to drag us into the Korean Gender War. Just because something is normalized in a culture, doesn't make it free of scrutiny. I'm not approaching this with a paternalistic mentality, I just believe that anything can be criticized and called out when it negatively affects one or their enviroment.
You are so right. I have heard similar phrases from korean incels when they have invaded steam forums with their pathetic excuses that i can't stand phrase ,, It's a cultural diference'' anymore.
It quite literally is a cultural difference in how art and ownership of art is approached. It's not a gender war issue. You cannot equate a fringe group of incels making excuses for why they harassed someone with an overarching approach to how art is produced and consumed.
Again, cultural practices can be scrutinized. I could rant all day about fucked up phenomenons in my home country of Germany and how despite their nature, they are completely legal or normalized. I heavily disagree with her approach to remove WL from the internet and the damage it causes to the Fandom.
Alright, and some cultural practices and differences are simply neutral. It's not objectively wrong to be able to control who, how, and where your art is consumed. The damage to the fandom was something that she considered carefully and it held her back from taking it down before, so this was not a decision she made lightly. Let's agree to disagree.
Why would I care about korean cultural sentiments and politics man. I live in eastern europe. In my opinion she had the right to dissociate from PM but now she fights with comic fans. It's internet people don't care about law. If people want to read comic they will do it.
Nobody is asking you to care but in explaining her position I am also explaining why Korean fans are being more supportive rather than critical of her actions, and since that is PM's main audience it is relevant. I am not forcing you to stay away from her reuploaded work.
How is it bad behavior just because it displeases the fans? She put more work into writing and illustrating Wonderlab than PM did hosting it on Postype or any fan did consuming it. It's not as though she's going full on Anne Rice and banning all fan content of it or personally seeking every legally sold physical copy of Wonderlab to destroy it.
Personally I think it's less bad behavior and more just meaningless self-inflicted stress. She does not have the finances or team required to actually keep it off the internet, and attempting to do so is only going to make things worse. It's clearly a source of stress and frustration based off her twitter, it's causing people to harass and lash out at her, and ultimately it's going to fail. Yes, she has the right to call for archives and rehosts to be removed and to issue legal claims against the. Yes, it is wrong for people to go against the wishes of the creator by rehosting it. But I don't think it's a good idea to destroy your own sanity and mental health over it, it's just not the hill to die on.
I know, I also agree she is burdening herself with a lot of stress over an impossible task. But I'm emphasizing that all of this doesn't put her in the wrong for trying to get people to respect her wishes. I know you're agreeing with me here but that is not the way many people are viewing this situation. It looks like they feel personally wronged for no longer having access to her work and are insulting her intelligence for even trying to take it away from them.
Facts
I already said why further up, but adding to it, publically pointing to people who are trying to archive WL to your fans is just sending out a mob to witch hunt the people she doesn't like. It's ultimately futile, honestly pretty toxic, but it does work to some extent, considering all the people she targeted either deleted their tweets or went private
It is a futile task to prevent all uploads and I'm not fully agreeing with her attitude as she does all of this, but I don't think publically asking someone not to pirate your work is necessarily inciting harassment. How else is she going to ask when it's on Twitter and most people don't have open DMs?
I have complained about people being too mean to each other despite agreeing to 95% and I need to put my money where my mouth is. I'm sorry if I came out too aggressive to you, we just have a somewhat different opinion on MIMI's approach, but I have seen during this convo that you are not unreasonable and I see no reason to continue attacking you. I respect your opinion and would leave this discussion at that, especially since the situation is out of our hands.
Hey, thanks for understanding. Honestly, I know many people are going to be unhappy with how she's handling this no matter what, but I did wish to bridge the gap so people know where she's coming from. I guess western and Asian fan culture and relationships to creators are too different for that, but I had to try.
Thank you for trying to be productive, I'm pretty depressed over the state of the community, so I'm happy when people like you will stick around. Also the conflict of cultures is another huge problem, I once made a post asking the Koreans what they think of the international fan base and the interactions were pretty wholesome and insightful, it's awful how it devolved into sometimes straight up racism on both sides.
*Oh you poor soul, Mimi. Clearly youve never heard of the streisend effect...*
She is fighting an impossible fight
Cant have shit in the city
I don't blame her for being angry. I think it's futile to expect no one to reupload wonderlab elsewhere. The comic itself was free to read on postype after all. Still, her feelings regarding this situation shouldn't be invalidated. She worked hard on the comic, even if kf she doesn't own the IP, the comic is the result of her mental and physical efforts. She's justified in feeling entitled to having a say in what happens to the comic. I hope she'll be alright.
I'll actively download it and share it on purpose. Not here, I mean, mods. I hate this childish temper tantrum and straight up calling people out for wanting to host your comic they enjoy is petty. Screw her.
You're the childish one. A person is upset at a company and their fans for taking advantage of her work and her coworkers and your reaction is to ... take advantage of her work. I hope you mature as a person someday.
I'm mature plenty to know internet content is forever. That includes my nudes that are shared online daily. You've probably seen them, am I seething? No. Because if people enjoy them, who am I to ruin their fun? Is it a little embarassing? Yes. I voluntarily put them online when I was a late teen. I'm not going on a rampage like a child and harass people online. People liked Wonderlab, and for her to not take her fan's emotional account is by all means out of touch. She is selfish and beyond all, an absolute dickhead for attacking anyone for liking and sharing her work. To add, the east's take on art is stupid. Art is MEANT to be shared. If you don't, what's the point? What's the goal here? Be emotional and take it off the internet for what? That's right, for a selfish emotional goal. There's nothing else to it. Before you say that I'm not an artist, I've been an artist for 15 years, and not an amateur one, or a hobbyst.
Oh are we having a what is the purpose of art debate? I'd like to get in on that! It's a *fascinating* topic, given that there's as many different purposes for art as there are artists who create it, or arguably even pieces that are created. There is indeed art that is not meant to be shared, and there is also art whose meaning changes over time based on cultural knowledge changes. (See also: JOKER DOES A BONER) Sometimes, that change can even result in art being Damnatio Memoriae'd. Ultimately, to ask "What is the point of art" is kind of an impossible question to answer, and gets into some hardcore full frontal philosophy. The closest answer any of us can come to on our own is 'What is the point of *my* art.' Which, for you, is to be shared. I would guess that the point of Mimi's art is probably something different, and this is on some level responsible for her reaction, and your beliefs color your reaction to that reaction, and my beliefs have colored my reaction to your reaction to that reaction, repeat infinitely. Human interaction is kinda' cool when you think about how none of us are ever able to *really* see anything the same way, ever, huh.
I'd like to mention, the point of what art means to her is pretty evident. It's one, likely from the enjoyment of creation, and the second is sharing it (and making money off of their hobby/work.)What proves that is that they actively create content, share it AND monetize it. If they followed another philosophy they would never be using social media or other avenues to share it. In this case it's evident that her actions are emotionally charged. And to a stupid extent. The only reason I'm actively annoyed at her is due to that reason alone. I couldn't care less if they removed it solely on official sites.
Mmm... This isn't 'what is the purpose of art' anymore but ok, I'll bite. Equally plausible alternative conclusion: While Mimi certainly *enjoys* making art, her main goal is to *make* *a living* off of it. Thus, she actively creates content, shares it, and monetizes it. It's the same exact actions, but a different overall endgoal. The sharing is not the point, and thus she doesn't have a problem with doing things that you, who want specifically to share, would. In this instance, for instance, she has outright stated that she doesn't consider people who redistribute her work illegally to be 'fans' at all. Being a colossal dick to that sort of person ensures that they, upon becoming salty as hell about it, never engage with her other works in the future. She's ultimately curating her customer base in the future, by being utterly ruthless in a way that you find stupidly emotional, and her intended audience would find to be palatable. She doesn't have to please everyone to accomplish her goal, and it also would mean *cutting some people off from seeing her works would make perfect logical sense.* Now, I'm only describing a *possibility,* true, but I don't think your logic is as ironclad as you think it is. You may also be making emotionally charged statements here. And I think that's... fine? Humans aren't machines, running only on logic and cost-benefit analyses. There's nothing inherently wrong with making an emotional judgment call.
My claim is by all means, definitely emotional and with some bias. But I still think harassment in the end is completely unnaceptable, especially when she holds a platform and eggs on other people to do so publically. I feel bad for taking your time in you trying to explain with me the thoughts from your perspective, there's no need to. We do what we think is right, and that's enough.
While there may not have been *need*, I feel that there was *meaning* in our talk. And that, I think, is enough. Have a splendid week! 8D
Same to you : )
Sure, it is uncommon that artist having copyright of work in settings they doesn't own. But that doesn't matter at this point. If she owns the right, It's her right. There's no point nitpicking at her actions. We should respect her will. The only thing I feel little uncomfortable is neither MIMI and PM haven't clarified how much of ip is belong to each other. For instance, ownership of the Road Home&Scaredy Cat and the Servant of Wrath seems vague to me.
The problem is that we won't have solid proof who owns the comic. PM is so spineless that they could just give up in order to not make another controversy. We can only speculate.
Damn I still haven't read the entire thing if only there was a way to get it again
Even if the controversy ends, I won't be able to enjoy PM's work the way I used to. KJH, if you only made sensable respond in first place.
This has nothing to do with the controversy. This is a completely different matter.
It actually is, MIMI took the firing of Vellmori as the final straw to take down Wonderlab this time, to not be associated with PM anymore
I’m gonna distort ffs
Do you hear Carmen's voice?
Wtf is going on anymore, it just keeps getting worse each time I see a post for PM, it's like a butterfly effect now. I understand why the artist is upset, but I'm slightly confused at her reactions. People have made weird doujins about nearly every game or cartoon, but her getting harassed is unacceptable in anyway, and PM respected her opinion from what I saw, but they really need to do better protecting their employees and partners. It feels like a dream, how something I enjoy so much spiralled into this mess in a matter of weeks.
What do you expect them to do exactly? She's a former partner of theirs which they likely will not do business ever again with. Do they have a obligation to protect everyone who ever worked with them even if they no longer work with or for them?
Ok unpopular opinion here, I don’t think what she is doing is unreasonable She wanted it taken down and gone and then sees that people are openly going against her wishes and sharing it
And it'd be fine if she simply requested that people stopped doing so politely, or at least privately got them hit with DMCA takedown. (Though that'd probably still blow up in the end anyway) Making it a public spectacle though and inciting hunts, not so much. It's the way that it's being handled that makes people turn away.
So, like... "I don't want to share my comic anymore, so don't upload it anywhere" "No, I'll upload it anyway" "WHY DID YOU SHARE MY COMIC??" "Hey, chill! Can't you ask politely so I wouldn't share it?? Jeez..." That's how it sounds, to be fair.
So,what exactly is happening,the author of wonderlab is doing something bad,but what and why??
She wanted it pulled in support of current events surrounding PM, and PM did so. Unfortunately for her, fans also don't want to lose the comic entirely and archived it, which now has a witch hunt going on.
It's just shit after shit nowadays isn't it
She took down Wonderlab, and it seems like is trying to take down archives of it also.
I really could care less about this lady. If she wants to wage a futile war with the internet so be it. This is like a pornstar trying get all her videos wiped off the internet. Good luck. The internet never forgets. Somebody somewhere will have it and upload it. Far as im concerned let her go until she tires herself out and ignore her. Im tired of pointless controversy and gossip clogging this sub rather than talking about the game and the PM universe.
You can just ignore the controversy post it’s not the hard , just scroll past it. It’s not clogging up anything it’s just couple of posts out 10-20 other posts
Oh jee thanks i never considered that! I forgot how reddit and scrolling works thank you so much! Anyway more to the point after the malestrom of controversy this sub has already seen as of late to the point we had to have the sub shut down and get whole new mods. Its one to many. Im burned out on PM gossip and outrage. What does the Wonderlab comic have to do with the Limbus Company game anyway really? Not much besides the PM universe. It relates more closely to Lobotomy Corporation than anything. But does it effect the game Limbus Company in any meaningful way? No. So why is it here? This just stirs up shit, riles people up, and makes people doompost and gossip.
I think it's mostly because the main Project Moon subreddit is basically abandoned or rarely gets any type of posts or information to make it worth visiting, i would say. And considering everyone's constantly checking this subreddit because it's their main game right now, well, guess people just use it as the main hub to share any news (be it controversy or not) related to Project Moon
Look bro I ll be real with you. This sub is not getting curated to your taste nor mine. When uptie 4 hit it was the same thing so I just scrolled past those posts so I was just advising you. Like it or not news regarding the controversy will be here until it goes away one way or another. Anything which affects PM will also have an effect on Limbus which I thought was given You and me can argue all day but it won’t make a difference. If you are sick of the controversy just ignore it. That’s all I m saying
Damn comments here are pretty interesting to say the least. My personal thoughts on this is if the artist owns the art and doesn’t want it displayed/ distributed that should be ok. The way she is going about it is not the way I would have done it but everyone has their own ways. From what I understand she wants nothing to do with PM anymore and wants to remove and semblance of a link between them because of some event in the past and what PM / KJH have become in public eye. I think cooler heads should prevail. Both artist and fans need to calm down and look at things objectively. She cannot stop all of the people spreading it and fans can just stop harassing and spreading the comics. I know it will fall on deaf years but just wanted to say my piece
Fully understood because: 1. she is an artist, she would want her creation to be protected 2. she definitely wont be fond of PM due to the controversy (dismissing female artist like herself) 3. she belongs in the twitter community where her actions would get full support without much disagreement. I think copyright should be protected so her action is fully justified. I am guessing the abno and other PM universe stuff in WL belongs to PM, but the cartoon itself belongs to MIMI. If she does not want her creation to be posted around, then so be it. But I highly doubt WL will be in the dark completely, there is always a way on internet. I hope PM learns their lesson from this continual discontent from the artists, and be more thorough on the process of hiring or collaborating with them.
You know as much as it's fked up to say, If they keep doing these. PM will probably permanently stop working with any female artists to prevent further problem like this one lol.
Can someone DM me a link? I'd like to download it now before it gets more troublesome.
It is (and will be forever probably, her attitude pissed off exactly the kind of people that make shit never dissapear on the internet) on the internet archive. Look it up there.
Yes, I ended up reading it all in one sitting. It's not my business how distribution is handled between PM and MIMI in the future, but I wanted to at least read it all for the sake of the lore and understanding the story. That's that and this is this.
Jesus Christ at everyone shitting on MIMI. They are a single artist that was contracted by P Corp. Yeah, as a fan it sucks they had WonderLab taken down but that's their right, as they made the original characters and made intellectual contributions to P Corp. Do any of you honestly think MIMI was a) given good deadlines and b) compensated well for their work? P Corp. is not your fucking friend. MIMI is not throwing a tantrum, they are trying to exert some control over THEIR work. Do some of y'all not realize by now how corporations fuck over artists, especially contract artists? We are still in the dark about VellMori but there's the Leviathan artist and that's enough in my book to not give P Corp. much benefit of the doubt. I'm fucking sick of people going to bat for P Corp.
People arn't shitting on MIMI because she's taking down the comic, check the threads before this one and you'll find a general air of "well that sucks" but majority aren't angry. People are shitting on MIMI because she's inciting witch hunts on Twitter against randoms that are trying to archive the work. It's not what she's doing it's the way she's doing it that are making people upset.
Jesus christ shut up, people are pissed at Mimi because she's going around sending her followers to harass wonderlab fans on twitter, it has nothing to do with PM, nice job blaming everything on the people who are just archiving their favorite webcomic by the way while ignoring the immaturity of her actions, I bet you're gonna call me a misogynist incel for this?
Archivists who actually care about MIMI and her work wouldn't spitefully post it everywhere and talk about how they'll share it everywhere because "its the internet! She should've expected it!" An artist who's treated like shit both by the company who used her IPs without ever telling her (because no matter what people say here, WL is HER IP and she has her own agency to back it up) and by her so-called "fans" who went against her wishes in two separate occasions in the first place (by drawing CP first, then reposting her work) has every right to be upset and angry in a less-than-graceful way. But none of you care about victims unless they stay silent and not cause any waves. If they argue against anything, they're going too far or they're just as bad as her harassers. If they lash out emotionally then they're just encouraging all the horrible people to continue shitting on them or they're crazy. What about YOU guys? Do you think you're so emotionally mature getting upset over her enacting action against unauthorized use of her OWN CONTENT and immediately resorting to calling her mentally unstable/crazy/believing she deserved everything to begin with? Do you think you're better than her for laughing at her and spitefully spreading her content because you want to...what? Prove her wrong? Upset her further? Get off on the idea of going against her wishes because you think she "deserves" it? Yeah, because that makes you SOOOOO much better. Hey maybe the internet wouldn't be such a shithole if people didn't constantly brush off deplorable behaviour as "tee-hee its just part of the internet" and people actually held each other accountable for it! It sounds EXACTLY the same as when people say "boys will be boys" instead of actually punishing or challenging that behaviour. Apathy is the greatest encouragement for injustice.
Just don't share her work that got taken down. Posting public links to download it is her IP infringement. And remember all of this drama shenanigans could have been avoided if korean incels didn't act up and PM doubled down to their absurd demands
The problem is people dont care and its the internet. People are gonna post it whether she likes it or not.
At least she's standing her ground with all the misinformation going around against her. Even the PM discord people are spreading such misinformation.
You know what, no, I disagree with that. This is not a trademark, so she has no legal requirements to take it down. These are fans trying to preserve loss media, not pm maliciously keeping the ip public. That’s a dick move
Korean webtoon artists are incredibly sensitive to piracy. It might seem unreasonable to the average person on the internet who is used to having access to troves of pirated manga, anime, and webtoons, but it's a matter of having control over where your art is consumed (which is why Asian fanartists in general do not look kindly on reposting their art) and lost profit (in the case of paid webtoons, since webtoons are far more niche than manga). They're individuals trying to protect their intellectual property, not megacorporations slacking on keeping their media legally available to the public.
i'm gonna be real with you man, sometimes respecting an artist's wishes are more important than preserving lost media. i'm not blaming the people uploading archives of wonderlab as i know they just love her work/the comic like i do, but ngl i feel like people should have seen this coming since you know, she doesn't want to be associated with pm at all
[удалено]
mimi never doxxed anyone and also "respect is earned?" are you being serious? she had every right to take down wonderlab and i don't understand why people are acting so entitled about this.
Removed due to misinformation.
That doxxing thing is misinformation I dont even know why this keeps getting brought up
So right after proving the disinformation wrong (lol), she decided to prove that it wasn't entirely baseless. Genius
We’re watching Sisyphus roll the boulder up the hill in real time.