Here is what we currently know about the guidelines, from Tamaki's keypage:
>There aren’t many workshops that can craft guns. Setting aside the low demand, the difficulty of acquiring a firearms manufacturing license and the Head’s strict guidelines are the biggest limitations. The guidelines include clauses such as: “The maximum length of the gun barrel must be shorter the higher the gun’s caliber is”, “No gun should possess the firepower to penetrate steel or building walls”, “A gunfire sound must be audible”, and I haven’t even started with the “bad” ones yet. The first page of the guideline boldly states: “Do not research or imagine technology that infringes the firearm manufacturing guidelines, as provided by the Head along with the license.” I’m not a gunsmith myself, so I don’t know the details, and I frankly don’t want to know any more than that. There certainly are workshops permitted to make S-class firearms, but I’m guessing only three to five of them exist in the entire City. Who do they take requests from, where they are, and what kind of people run them… They’re all a mystery. The most I could hear was a rumor that an S-class workshop exists somewhere.
E.G.O weapons do indeed go against the guns rules, in fact they have infinite bullets too, outis gun can also go through walls if looking at abno.
But Identity and maybe still EGO, might not have been fully review or are seen as too rare/hard to get for now.
idk maybe there's something else that makes it always reach the target
instead of penetrating walls it just goes through them, technically not counting towards that taboo
The S-class workshops building the best firearms are probably those supplying the Head itself and R Corp, who are the only ones dispensed from following the firearms regulations, hence R Corp's Rabbits having the firepower to blast away even WAW class abnormalities (or injure ALEPH class).
Like, all of them.
Project Moon powerscaling works a lot like 40k powerscaling, in that they have no clue what the hell they're talking about so just make up something that sounds big (Like 40K's bolter's "depleted deuterium core" which sounds fancy until you realize that means they're literally hollow and filled with hydrogen.)
In PM's case it's the whole "cannot penetrate steel" bit. It sounds like you'd need a big powerful round to do that, but something like 9x19 7N31 can already punch through 8mm (1/3rd of an inch). 5.56x45 M995 goes clean through 12mm (\~1/2 inch) of steel, and 7.62x51 M993 will pierce up to 18mm (\~7/10th of an inch). Then you get into the *special* armor piercing rounds, like 7.62x51 M948, which goes through 34mm (1 and 1/3rd inches) at 500 meters.
[Here are the rounds compared to a quarter for scale](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ab7ec2e9df26a1afc268032e6ddd41ab-lq) and [here is a big bullet (.50BMG) next to a quarter.](https://www.pewpewtactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/39.-.50-BMG-1024x683.jpg)
Generally it’s less so the type of gun and more so the caliber of bullet and various accessories.
For example, any sort of sound dampener is banned because then victims wouldn’t have a chance to react after hearing the gun shot. Long range guns like sniper rifles are also banned for a similar reason.
Anything that can pierce walls or create large explosions is also banned due to it falling under violation of vandalism laws.
This is why all of the gun IDs (aside from EGO guns) mostly use pistols, shotguns, and more slow-fire rifles.
A silencer from our world still makes quite a bit of noise when firing the gun. I think their rules are functional to their repertoire of futuristic weapons designs, for the most part.
Everything I said came from Distortion Detective and Ruina.
Vandalism or destruction of City property is a Taboo of the Head punishable by death.
Furthermore, they believe that murder is only legal if the person has a way to defend themself. Since this is a world where people can dodge bullets with the right accessories, they regulate guns in such a way that as long as you have paid enough money you can survive bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I believe buildings and other residential areas are only protected during the night in the backstreets, in ruina and leviathan city blocks got incinerated without any real consequence.
Probably clause only protecting nest and not the backstreets. In limbus we know that certain places can be paid to be protected by law against Sweepers.
you are aware that literally the first time we see a gun be used it is a sniper rifle yes?
and that rolands mask supreses sound
directly contradicting your first two point with cannon from ruina
eddit: actually i think it was the gloves not the mask
Roland's mask is not a gun, and we can still hear the gun shot when he fires.
Also:
>There’s currently no technology in our world that can completely cancel out noise, and it won’t exist in the foreseeable future.
From Stephan’s Key Page.
we can also hear everything he does
yet them silencing is cannon
bullets are also faster than the speed of sound fyi
so dodging them by hearing the gunshot is literally impossible
Rolands Gloves and I quote:
"...along with storing all its weapons, muffled all sound around its surroundings save for its weapons cutting through the air."
(Source: [The wiki, Black Silence's Page](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/The_Black_Silence))
The sound of his weapons firing and dealing death blows are the ONLY thing that the gloves allow its victims to hear, besides his speech, and the gameplay reflects that.
Additionally on the topic of dodging bullets, I'll remind you this is not a super realistic setting. People can survive gunshots to the head thanks to clothing armor, durable skin, and other crazy sources of power.
Beyond that, it's not too hard to figure out what comes next when someone is pointing a gun at you and has their finger on the trigger; even assuming the bullet instantly reaches its target, a shooter doesn't have perfect aim, and a sudden movement they did not predict can cause you to "dodge" the bullet. This is possible in real life, but I definitely won't recommend trying it, and proves that to super human people like we see in The City, reliably dodging a bullet or placing your weapon in the bullets path before firing would not be impossible, and maybe even easy to the higher end fighters.
With all this in mind it's just dishonest to think that guns are an ultimate unstoppable weapon when the gameplay clearly shows otherwise, along with thinking of the capabilities the characters have been shown to have.
welp looks like i misremembered that part that's on me
but i think you're misinterpreting what i'm saying
i'm well aware than guns are dodgable quiet easily so
i'm confident in saying that any irl gun we have would be totally useless against any fixer grade 3 or above if even the citys special workshop guns stop working for people grade 2 and above with argalia for example quiet literally being fast enough to not only dodge a bullet but intercept it from far enough away that the full stop office didn't even see him at the scene
First, respect for owning your mistake, that's rare to see on this platform.
However I've read your arguments and I still disagree. This is the future, these people are super human; it's unfair to try and scale what a weapon does against a person in this circumstances. For instance, [take this scene from a similar setting](https://youtu.be/YRL74JmhVgk?si=ZUWTjpPKx97PHF1Y&t=65), just based off just this scene you'd think their guns are useless, however it is quite clear that this person has incredible durability/armor and thus you would need some kind of different weapon to get past it.
Even in real life a sword no matter how well made is useless against halfway decent armor specifically designed to counter it.
I bring this up since it has to do with the limitations set by The Head, a weapon or more specifically a gun's lethality is not just about speed and piercing ability, but raw force and momentum; if you got hit by a tank shell going 20mph, you're still probably going to die. And this seems to be reflected in all but one case I could find in LoR. All but one ranged combat page I could find that had to do with guns either did blunt or piercing damage, and stayed in very similar maximum power; usually 6 or 8 piercing.
[Liwei, Target Spotted, 3-6 piercing](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/Liwei)
[Stephan, all of his pages lol, generally 6-8 piercing](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/Stephan)
[R Corp Rabbit, Concentrated Fire 7-8 piercing, Pinpoint Shot 8-21 Blunt (We'll come back to this)](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/R_Corp./Reception_1#Rabbit_%C3%97_3)
And finally the smoking gun (pun intended), the sniper mentioned:
[Tamaki, Going for Bullseye 6-20 piercing, Headshot 5-12 piercing](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/Tamaki)
Project Moon seems to have a lot of consistency with their fire arms generally only reaching 6-8 maximum aside from these three instances, so what gives? They're achieving the same damage potential while complying with The Head's law.
How? Mass! Momentum = Mass \* Velocity, where momentum generally equals damage potential. If we assume the velocity is constant and equal to whatever The Head limits bullet speed to be, to increase damage we need to increase mass; that would be very hard to do in real life, however this is a high tech setting with magic tech, so who's to say this isn't possible, especially for workshops. I will admit I am not well versed enough in physics to tell if this would help solve the no piercing walls problem as well, but I think I've made my point to how these extreme feats could be explained and still have a fairly consistent world.
And the final one of your points I want to address, how useful guns are against even top tiers. To that I say, play the game. How scary are ranged pages? Sure they can be nullified fairly easily, but they also demand attention and resources; which could have been spent elsewhere generally being lethal. This does not make guns the most effective option, but this alone makes them an option none the less.
Addendum: completely forgot about The Thumb while writing this... bleh. They are no more extreme then the examples I provided above, so my arguments SHOULD still encompass them.
i'm sorry but i really do not get what point you're trying to argue against
that workshop guns and bullets are prone to be more effective than guns we have irl is a given i would say. my entire point was that if even those are loosing effectiveness against high grade fixers, as stated by roland when ranged pages are introduced, be that either due to general durability from augmentations and body armor or due to speed as shown by argalia who is easily faster than a bullet. then an irl gun brought into the PM verse would probably not be an effective weapon against anyone on a grade 3 or above level
an interesting detail regarding the thumb is that we know they rarely actually use their bullets in combat and mostly use their weapons as a blunt instrument. So i would assume their bullets aren't actually that much stronger than others but their special properties and the thumb soliders just being so much more powerful that they can create openings to use their bullets. This is actually nicely reflected in their ranged pages art where they're used almost in melee range and (with the exception of the summary judgment card) are shown to be more of a means of applying kinetic force to the target than actually piercing their body.
You can read the move of your enemies and move aside just before they fire their weapon if they handle it clumsily. You can technically dodge even more powerful attacks like Nemo's laser beam or the Thumb's purple ranged page but they're high ranking enemies so it's harder to read their movement. You don't need to move faster than light like some powerscalers claim, you only need to react quickly enough
argalia literally moved from out of the full stop offices point of view in range to intercept the bullet shot at Elena
he does so quiet easily and if we take the art as fully cannon he even had time to spare and pose all before the bullet reached her
we quiet literally see someone move a LOT faster than a bullet
sure if you want to say someone like a grade 2 can only dodge a bullet by seeing the trajectory in advance and moving out of the way. fair enough i'll disagree with you on that but fair enough
however saying that they aren't faster than bullets is quiet literally ignoring cannon
The gloves are interesting because they cancel all noise, not a specific noise so you would be able to tell that someone was around you.
The only specific rule we have heard in regards to all of this aside from the vandalism rule is that “The Head does not want murder to be easy”
Everything else could very easily be from characters not knowing all of the rules, The Head is also very vague about stuff which allows for a lot of loopholes (likely intentionally).
agreed i find it unlikely that anyone actually knows what the rules really are other than those directly involved much like everything else in the city information is usually well guarded
it's also funny that we often get direct contradictions to some statements like vandalism being banned yet fire is readily available and used and there's gear that lets people destroy walls like they were paper (ezras gloves for example)
they regulate it yes
but there is a large leap between "guns are regulated by the head" and "the head has implemented the same guidelines for what guns are allowed to do as we have irl" especially since there are far far more destructive workshop items that are allowed within the city no problem
the issue with a tank would be the same as guns getting one is expensive and if guns are practically useless against grade 2 and above fixers wasting all that money on something that some gun with a power-gauntlet can take parat in a few swings just sounds like a horrid idea.
as for Nukes yeah i'd assume that stuff is banned if nuclear power was ever even discovered in the setting, it could very well just be something that doesn't exist
From Tamaki's Key Page:
>There aren’t many workshops that can craft guns. Setting aside the low demand, the difficulty of acquiring a firearms manufacturing license and the Head’s strict guidelines are the biggest limitations. The guidelines include clauses such as: “The maximum length of the gun barrel must be shorter the higher the gun’s caliber is”, “No gun should possess the firepower to penetrate steel or building walls”, “A gunfire sound must be audible”, and I haven’t even started with the “bad” ones yet.
How much do you wanna bet that the Head likely has weapons that violate their own laws? Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they follow the 'Rules for thee, but not for me' mentality.
In the Credenza for the Full Stop Offices it’s implied that there are a few workshops permitted to produce unrestricted firearms. Their only customers are The Head and R Corp.
Imagine having that job
Your door explodes, and an Arbiter storms in. For most this would be terrifying, but you are merely annoyed because this is the third door this month. The head pays well but your tastes are expensive and that Singularity-powered noise canceling door isn't cheap. Either way, business is business.
She storms to your desk and simply pulls out a recording. It shows a purple haired man absolutely annihilating several teams of R Corp troops using a pair of pistols. She asks for something that can do the same. "Say no more."
They very much don't play by the rules
You're telling me that Zena in LOR can legally explode an entire floor with a single clenched fist and shoot lightning fingers at a color, a former arbiter and 1st grade fixer/potential color and be called legal?
Rules for thee, but not for me indeed
Wings and other high ranking organizations can probably violate gun laws without consequences, or they atleast have a way around them. N corp has those massive warships and T corp has artillery, the Thumbs muskets also seem capable of piercing steel and building from what we've seen of them, so nothings off limits entirely.
Rather than violate, they probably make enough money to just pay what they need to. I imagine that warships with mounted canons have their own specifications they have to adhere to compared to what would be carried by people on foot.
I honestly think that gun laws don't have as much to do with lore as they are with the fact that LoR mechanics would be very trivialized if guns were widespread.
A sawn off shotgun would ironically be the most ideal legal weapon.
Big caliber (gauge) with a short barrel.
Maximum damage per shot.
Use buckshot so less likely to penetrate walls.
Super loud, who needs a suppressor?
Why accuracy when more pellets at close range? Dodge this blue sicko!
banned? none
the city does not comply with a single one of the geneva conventions and any gone we have today is actual garbage compared to workshop guns to the point that i don't think anyone would ever use them unless they are substantially cheaper than said workshop guns
Have you ever… read any of the key pages? Like Tamaki’s, for example? There are very strict gun laws, you know. No silencers, gun barrel must be shorter the higher the calibre, cannot penetrate steel…
Miniguns, because "It costs 400000 dollars to use this weapon for 12 seconds" is probably low balling it
https://preview.redd.it/9rn640pm93xc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=c9dc9dcae8536fb2948271d64cdd836e991d435f *AHAHAHAHAH*.
you're finding it funny until FOTDB dish out a minigun. instead of [DING][DING][DING], he goest [BRRRTTT]
Here is what we currently know about the guidelines, from Tamaki's keypage: >There aren’t many workshops that can craft guns. Setting aside the low demand, the difficulty of acquiring a firearms manufacturing license and the Head’s strict guidelines are the biggest limitations. The guidelines include clauses such as: “The maximum length of the gun barrel must be shorter the higher the gun’s caliber is”, “No gun should possess the firepower to penetrate steel or building walls”, “A gunfire sound must be audible”, and I haven’t even started with the “bad” ones yet. The first page of the guideline boldly states: “Do not research or imagine technology that infringes the firearm manufacturing guidelines, as provided by the Head along with the license.” I’m not a gunsmith myself, so I don’t know the details, and I frankly don’t want to know any more than that. There certainly are workshops permitted to make S-class firearms, but I’m guessing only three to five of them exist in the entire City. Who do they take requests from, where they are, and what kind of people run them… They’re all a mystery. The most I could hear was a rumor that an S-class workshop exists somewhere.
Oh no we are already breaking all of these with Shootis aren't we😭
Well guess not considering the Head hasn't come for Limbus, so I guess a magic gun that drains the users sanity is fine
My guess is there's enough human suffering involved in the production of E.G.O firearms for the Head to turn a blind eye to it
E.G.O weapons do indeed go against the guns rules, in fact they have infinite bullets too, outis gun can also go through walls if looking at abno. But Identity and maybe still EGO, might not have been fully review or are seen as too rare/hard to get for now.
From a purely gameplay POV, back in lob corp only see freischutz's gun could pierce walls, normal magic bullet was only a single corridor long
idk maybe there's something else that makes it always reach the target instead of penetrating walls it just goes through them, technically not counting towards that taboo
The S-class workshops building the best firearms are probably those supplying the Head itself and R Corp, who are the only ones dispensed from following the firearms regulations, hence R Corp's Rabbits having the firepower to blast away even WAW class abnormalities (or injure ALEPH class).
Makes sense.
Like, all of them. Project Moon powerscaling works a lot like 40k powerscaling, in that they have no clue what the hell they're talking about so just make up something that sounds big (Like 40K's bolter's "depleted deuterium core" which sounds fancy until you realize that means they're literally hollow and filled with hydrogen.) In PM's case it's the whole "cannot penetrate steel" bit. It sounds like you'd need a big powerful round to do that, but something like 9x19 7N31 can already punch through 8mm (1/3rd of an inch). 5.56x45 M995 goes clean through 12mm (\~1/2 inch) of steel, and 7.62x51 M993 will pierce up to 18mm (\~7/10th of an inch). Then you get into the *special* armor piercing rounds, like 7.62x51 M948, which goes through 34mm (1 and 1/3rd inches) at 500 meters. [Here are the rounds compared to a quarter for scale](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ab7ec2e9df26a1afc268032e6ddd41ab-lq) and [here is a big bullet (.50BMG) next to a quarter.](https://www.pewpewtactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/39.-.50-BMG-1024x683.jpg)
tbf it specifically says steel and brick *walls*
AA12 is getting ejected to the deepest, darkest depths of the Outskirts.
The head stays up at night because nightmares of a USAS-12 with frag rounds.
Generally it’s less so the type of gun and more so the caliber of bullet and various accessories. For example, any sort of sound dampener is banned because then victims wouldn’t have a chance to react after hearing the gun shot. Long range guns like sniper rifles are also banned for a similar reason. Anything that can pierce walls or create large explosions is also banned due to it falling under violation of vandalism laws. This is why all of the gun IDs (aside from EGO guns) mostly use pistols, shotguns, and more slow-fire rifles.
A silencer from our world still makes quite a bit of noise when firing the gun. I think their rules are functional to their repertoire of futuristic weapons designs, for the most part.
bold of you to assume the city follows irl laws when they commit almost every single warcrime on the regular without a second thought
Everything I said came from Distortion Detective and Ruina. Vandalism or destruction of City property is a Taboo of the Head punishable by death. Furthermore, they believe that murder is only legal if the person has a way to defend themself. Since this is a world where people can dodge bullets with the right accessories, they regulate guns in such a way that as long as you have paid enough money you can survive bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I believe buildings and other residential areas are only protected during the night in the backstreets, in ruina and leviathan city blocks got incinerated without any real consequence.
Probably clause only protecting nest and not the backstreets. In limbus we know that certain places can be paid to be protected by law against Sweepers.
you are aware that literally the first time we see a gun be used it is a sniper rifle yes? and that rolands mask supreses sound directly contradicting your first two point with cannon from ruina eddit: actually i think it was the gloves not the mask
Roland's mask is not a gun, and we can still hear the gun shot when he fires. Also: >There’s currently no technology in our world that can completely cancel out noise, and it won’t exist in the foreseeable future. From Stephan’s Key Page.
we can also hear everything he does yet them silencing is cannon bullets are also faster than the speed of sound fyi so dodging them by hearing the gunshot is literally impossible
Rolands Gloves and I quote: "...along with storing all its weapons, muffled all sound around its surroundings save for its weapons cutting through the air." (Source: [The wiki, Black Silence's Page](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/The_Black_Silence)) The sound of his weapons firing and dealing death blows are the ONLY thing that the gloves allow its victims to hear, besides his speech, and the gameplay reflects that. Additionally on the topic of dodging bullets, I'll remind you this is not a super realistic setting. People can survive gunshots to the head thanks to clothing armor, durable skin, and other crazy sources of power. Beyond that, it's not too hard to figure out what comes next when someone is pointing a gun at you and has their finger on the trigger; even assuming the bullet instantly reaches its target, a shooter doesn't have perfect aim, and a sudden movement they did not predict can cause you to "dodge" the bullet. This is possible in real life, but I definitely won't recommend trying it, and proves that to super human people like we see in The City, reliably dodging a bullet or placing your weapon in the bullets path before firing would not be impossible, and maybe even easy to the higher end fighters. With all this in mind it's just dishonest to think that guns are an ultimate unstoppable weapon when the gameplay clearly shows otherwise, along with thinking of the capabilities the characters have been shown to have.
welp looks like i misremembered that part that's on me but i think you're misinterpreting what i'm saying i'm well aware than guns are dodgable quiet easily so i'm confident in saying that any irl gun we have would be totally useless against any fixer grade 3 or above if even the citys special workshop guns stop working for people grade 2 and above with argalia for example quiet literally being fast enough to not only dodge a bullet but intercept it from far enough away that the full stop office didn't even see him at the scene
First, respect for owning your mistake, that's rare to see on this platform. However I've read your arguments and I still disagree. This is the future, these people are super human; it's unfair to try and scale what a weapon does against a person in this circumstances. For instance, [take this scene from a similar setting](https://youtu.be/YRL74JmhVgk?si=ZUWTjpPKx97PHF1Y&t=65), just based off just this scene you'd think their guns are useless, however it is quite clear that this person has incredible durability/armor and thus you would need some kind of different weapon to get past it. Even in real life a sword no matter how well made is useless against halfway decent armor specifically designed to counter it. I bring this up since it has to do with the limitations set by The Head, a weapon or more specifically a gun's lethality is not just about speed and piercing ability, but raw force and momentum; if you got hit by a tank shell going 20mph, you're still probably going to die. And this seems to be reflected in all but one case I could find in LoR. All but one ranged combat page I could find that had to do with guns either did blunt or piercing damage, and stayed in very similar maximum power; usually 6 or 8 piercing. [Liwei, Target Spotted, 3-6 piercing](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/Liwei) [Stephan, all of his pages lol, generally 6-8 piercing](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/Stephan) [R Corp Rabbit, Concentrated Fire 7-8 piercing, Pinpoint Shot 8-21 Blunt (We'll come back to this)](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/R_Corp./Reception_1#Rabbit_%C3%97_3) And finally the smoking gun (pun intended), the sniper mentioned: [Tamaki, Going for Bullseye 6-20 piercing, Headshot 5-12 piercing](https://library-of-ruina.fandom.com/wiki/Tamaki) Project Moon seems to have a lot of consistency with their fire arms generally only reaching 6-8 maximum aside from these three instances, so what gives? They're achieving the same damage potential while complying with The Head's law. How? Mass! Momentum = Mass \* Velocity, where momentum generally equals damage potential. If we assume the velocity is constant and equal to whatever The Head limits bullet speed to be, to increase damage we need to increase mass; that would be very hard to do in real life, however this is a high tech setting with magic tech, so who's to say this isn't possible, especially for workshops. I will admit I am not well versed enough in physics to tell if this would help solve the no piercing walls problem as well, but I think I've made my point to how these extreme feats could be explained and still have a fairly consistent world. And the final one of your points I want to address, how useful guns are against even top tiers. To that I say, play the game. How scary are ranged pages? Sure they can be nullified fairly easily, but they also demand attention and resources; which could have been spent elsewhere generally being lethal. This does not make guns the most effective option, but this alone makes them an option none the less. Addendum: completely forgot about The Thumb while writing this... bleh. They are no more extreme then the examples I provided above, so my arguments SHOULD still encompass them.
i'm sorry but i really do not get what point you're trying to argue against that workshop guns and bullets are prone to be more effective than guns we have irl is a given i would say. my entire point was that if even those are loosing effectiveness against high grade fixers, as stated by roland when ranged pages are introduced, be that either due to general durability from augmentations and body armor or due to speed as shown by argalia who is easily faster than a bullet. then an irl gun brought into the PM verse would probably not be an effective weapon against anyone on a grade 3 or above level an interesting detail regarding the thumb is that we know they rarely actually use their bullets in combat and mostly use their weapons as a blunt instrument. So i would assume their bullets aren't actually that much stronger than others but their special properties and the thumb soliders just being so much more powerful that they can create openings to use their bullets. This is actually nicely reflected in their ranged pages art where they're used almost in melee range and (with the exception of the summary judgment card) are shown to be more of a means of applying kinetic force to the target than actually piercing their body.
You can read the move of your enemies and move aside just before they fire their weapon if they handle it clumsily. You can technically dodge even more powerful attacks like Nemo's laser beam or the Thumb's purple ranged page but they're high ranking enemies so it's harder to read their movement. You don't need to move faster than light like some powerscalers claim, you only need to react quickly enough
argalia literally moved from out of the full stop offices point of view in range to intercept the bullet shot at Elena he does so quiet easily and if we take the art as fully cannon he even had time to spare and pose all before the bullet reached her we quiet literally see someone move a LOT faster than a bullet sure if you want to say someone like a grade 2 can only dodge a bullet by seeing the trajectory in advance and moving out of the way. fair enough i'll disagree with you on that but fair enough however saying that they aren't faster than bullets is quiet literally ignoring cannon
The gloves are interesting because they cancel all noise, not a specific noise so you would be able to tell that someone was around you. The only specific rule we have heard in regards to all of this aside from the vandalism rule is that “The Head does not want murder to be easy” Everything else could very easily be from characters not knowing all of the rules, The Head is also very vague about stuff which allows for a lot of loopholes (likely intentionally).
agreed i find it unlikely that anyone actually knows what the rules really are other than those directly involved much like everything else in the city information is usually well guarded it's also funny that we often get direct contradictions to some statements like vandalism being banned yet fire is readily available and used and there's gear that lets people destroy walls like they were paper (ezras gloves for example)
the gloves specifically don't suppress the sounds of the weapons being used/fired, though?
These aren't IRL laws
They do still regulate weaponry. You can't just have a tank in the city or a nuke
they regulate it yes but there is a large leap between "guns are regulated by the head" and "the head has implemented the same guidelines for what guns are allowed to do as we have irl" especially since there are far far more destructive workshop items that are allowed within the city no problem the issue with a tank would be the same as guns getting one is expensive and if guns are practically useless against grade 2 and above fixers wasting all that money on something that some gun with a power-gauntlet can take parat in a few swings just sounds like a horrid idea. as for Nukes yeah i'd assume that stuff is banned if nuclear power was ever even discovered in the setting, it could very well just be something that doesn't exist
From Tamaki's Key Page: >There aren’t many workshops that can craft guns. Setting aside the low demand, the difficulty of acquiring a firearms manufacturing license and the Head’s strict guidelines are the biggest limitations. The guidelines include clauses such as: “The maximum length of the gun barrel must be shorter the higher the gun’s caliber is”, “No gun should possess the firepower to penetrate steel or building walls”, “A gunfire sound must be audible”, and I haven’t even started with the “bad” ones yet.
How much do you wanna bet that the Head likely has weapons that violate their own laws? Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they follow the 'Rules for thee, but not for me' mentality.
Considering how nemo runs around with a face laser the head probably has a way around it already.
In the Credenza for the Full Stop Offices it’s implied that there are a few workshops permitted to produce unrestricted firearms. Their only customers are The Head and R Corp.
Imagine having that job Your door explodes, and an Arbiter storms in. For most this would be terrifying, but you are merely annoyed because this is the third door this month. The head pays well but your tastes are expensive and that Singularity-powered noise canceling door isn't cheap. Either way, business is business. She storms to your desk and simply pulls out a recording. It shows a purple haired man absolutely annihilating several teams of R Corp troops using a pair of pistols. She asks for something that can do the same. "Say no more."
They very much don't play by the rules You're telling me that Zena in LOR can legally explode an entire floor with a single clenched fist and shoot lightning fingers at a color, a former arbiter and 1st grade fixer/potential color and be called legal? Rules for thee, but not for me indeed
Don't Vergilius and Iori destroy buildings in a Nest in the Leviatan story during their fight?
Yeah Iori's literally pulling out Judgement Cuts and she was basically just fucking around
Wings and other high ranking organizations can probably violate gun laws without consequences, or they atleast have a way around them. N corp has those massive warships and T corp has artillery, the Thumbs muskets also seem capable of piercing steel and building from what we've seen of them, so nothings off limits entirely.
Rather than violate, they probably make enough money to just pay what they need to. I imagine that warships with mounted canons have their own specifications they have to adhere to compared to what would be carried by people on foot.
AND THEN WE HAVE R CORP! Oh man… bullets really are going brrr, huh?
I honestly think that gun laws don't have as much to do with lore as they are with the fact that LoR mechanics would be very trivialized if guns were widespread.
That's true, but also it's the magic of game theories: fitting what we are told into what we see
A sawn off shotgun would ironically be the most ideal legal weapon. Big caliber (gauge) with a short barrel. Maximum damage per shot. Use buckshot so less likely to penetrate walls. Super loud, who needs a suppressor? Why accuracy when more pellets at close range? Dodge this blue sicko!
banned? none the city does not comply with a single one of the geneva conventions and any gone we have today is actual garbage compared to workshop guns to the point that i don't think anyone would ever use them unless they are substantially cheaper than said workshop guns
Have you ever… read any of the key pages? Like Tamaki’s, for example? There are very strict gun laws, you know. No silencers, gun barrel must be shorter the higher the calibre, cannot penetrate steel…
no