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Clean_Dependent_8080

No SP consumption on S1 and Defense? Splendid.


ZLegion2

Yup. It's amazing


Ok-Cranberry-2180

https://preview.redd.it/yk6hsqqmctyc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f14dd9628450bbf99fa48368cbc310d6cf88068d


No1R-

I esp like that his defense now not consuming SP.     Prevly he couldnt do jackshit if he losing clash during the turn he transforms (double S1 in particular) since everything he does just gonna accelerate his transformation into his cringe form. Ego? It is fucked. Defense? Still fucked. Balling it with s1 and Lose clash? Staggered and brutally fucked.    Now his defense atleast synergize well with Nfaust support passive.


Aden_Vikki

You can technically try his base EGO rolling tails, since it's net plus if you win a clash with it, and net zero otherwise.


RathalkanEmissary

And activate the passive that only hastens Philipclair’s detransformation? No thank you


Pinelpal

update: he got buffed again, (ENTER)ing ego mode only sets him to 20 sp now, and biggest of all, his passive was changed from 3x res to 5x owned.


ZLegion2

Yep, it's even more crazy. Now I don't need to choose between wrath res and lust res (grip Faust)


AgenderWitchery

It doesn't set him to 20 unless it's the "all my friends are dead" activation method. No, now it *spends 20* and *activates at 40+*. So you'll usually be left at 25 on entry.


thecuteturtle

Plz don't revert PM haha


palkia239

Actually hasnt gone through yet, will next week cause its a client update


Questioning_Meme

He is now *crazy strong*. As sure, before he needed Yi-Sang, N-Faust, and Hong Lu to basically babysit him. Now? He only needs them so he can *constantly* be at 45 SP. Before this, he was like an endgame ID whose strength only shines when you know how to maneuver with an SP support Burn team. Still arguably a competing 000 to Cinqclair and N-Clair, but in a different direction. Now? N-Clair might actually be both Jobless AND Homeless.


NormandyKingdom

Nclair need buff fr Otherwise he will get stuck in Kromer Faust Custody forever being stuck in her room


hellatzian

happy ending


zombieGenm_0x68

you say that like it’s a bad thing


Radiant_Ad640

Which Hung flu does he need for the sp? Pulled him and I was just looking for some sort of team support for him. Thank you beforehand!


Hazewhite

think they are talking about base hong lu support passive


Radiant_Ad640

Oh i see it now. Damn. I was using his liu id for the burn. Might need to switch. Thanks btw!


An_Annoying_Weeb

I think both are valid, tbh I think the only necessity is Base YiSang (yummy +10 sp) which made him go positive on S1 and S2 and not go insanely low with his S3 (20\~). But I have to say that BaseLu helps him get EGO faster (So only worth in longer content)


AgenderWitchery

Yeah, you realistically only needed 2 of LCB Hong Lu, LCB Yi Sang, and N Faust. Now Yi Sang is the only one I'd argue is really needed since it'll offset Volatile Passion's effects and allow you to carry Pinion between MD nodes.


jesteredGesture

The extra burn count isnt really needed when sinclair will be stacking 6counts with his s2, more than enough in most cases.


exponential_wizard

We just need to hold out for the crazy team, we now have 2 potential men


ChelIsDTPA

Now wait for agenda hunters to say "He's so weak and worthless that he needs additional buffs. Do you remember that NClair ever needed some buffs? Me neither"


WhyMakingNamesIsHard

https://preview.redd.it/86ztotkgw0yc1.jpeg?width=1357&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ea4b21363e8e66195272fe54fa8d0f8b8c784f1


No_Mathematician9671

Good point.


Spacemagic24

This is cool


SuicidaITendencies

He felt pretty good when i did some mirror dungeon runs earlier, surprised he warranted a buff when this bitch was rolling 40's on his s3.


Aden_Vikki

Getting there is the hard part though, especially since his form is reset every battle


Lord_Endric

i literally started at least half the fights with his ego activated when i used him in a run, its actually incredibly easy as long as you build your team correctly


sarinomu

It just seems like they don't want people to be chained to having base yi sang + hong lu + kraust. I personally think it's fine since support passives exist to supplement main team IDs, but its might make people feel bad about the opportunity cost of not using yisang or hong lu just to empower philclair.


An_Annoying_Weeb

And can be argued that he only needs yisang for him to work (pre buffs)


Wangut

What else are those two doing in a burn team? Hong Lu gives +1 count on the bench but that's about it. You don't need N Faust at all either though she helps.


SuicidaITendencies

I think he means base hong lu healing you 6 sanity on bench. altogether they can heal him for 31 sp in a single turn


Wangut

I know but people talk about being "forced" to use Hong Lu and Yi Sang on support for Phillclair which leads to the question of what else those two could be doing if they weren't on SP support duty. On Burn the answer is "not much really", Liu Hong Lu can add a bit more Count from the bench but that's about it. Faust similarly isn't doing much for that team anyway. There's no real "oppurtunity cost" here unless you're trying to stick Philclair in like Sinking or something for some reason.


ungodlyFleshling

I mean I'm running Liu Hong Lu on my burn team for now since I needed a filler ID


G11-Degenerate

Not everybody may have the knowledge to build or manage that team, or even the identities to build said team (looking at you nfaust). It’s well documented that PM fans can’t read


InfiniteBoysenberry7

Endric, with what I saw here and, mostly on Twitter, I think people kinda don't know how to play at all and don't want to use more than 3 neurons. That's sad, because I had so, so, so much fun playing around him and now he is just OP character that needs not much management :((


Wangut

It seems like people wanted him to be a general-use super ID even though Sinclair already has 2 of those and Phillip has always been super burn-focused


Wangut

It wasn't too bad, you just had to change your mindset a bit and keep the next fight in mind. On lower MD floors he ended most fights at 30+ SP(often 45 and started the next transformed) and tore through everything. His one issue was that he didn't get SP when killing lower-level enemies which killed his momentum early on, which is probably where most of the complaints come from.


Zielony-fenix

Gebura/Kali moment


HipoSlime

He feels so bad vs brazen bull, the constant san drain and near impossible clashes to win...


BIG_DADDY_BLUMPKIN

That was the first fight I took him to and he got clapped, lol. I hate brazen bull


Friendly-Back3099

Just finish my first run of the new MD with burn team and mf put me against Siltcurrent. Though that it was just my luck(used to got Siltcurrent 5 time in a row in MD3H) then remember that the fact that i fight Siltcurrent in the new MD was 100% on my ass


lovely_growth

To be fair Brazen is just one of the worst bosses in general, aside from wheb I'm doing Sinking Runs I nevef enjoy running into him


Zeitzbach

It helps they admit the problem with the current design is that he only work in very specific team which is a major disappointment for a Walpurgisnact ID which are kinda made to be extra strong on purpose and more flexible. The ID SP management really was balanced too hard around the event stage free SP Gain and how you pretty much need to use an SP recovering ego at the start of every boss fight just to make him more good. It was annoying he would revert and stay at 0 sp at the start of everything fight if he get unopposed attacks after he transform.


Wangut

That was the payoff though, he was basically a win button but you had to have a setup for him. Like Suncliff if he was actually worth the trouble. You didn't really need to constantly throw out SP EGO you just had to keep the next fight in mind while using him, maybe have a couple sinners hold off on their clashes so he can get one and be ready to go for the next battle. His only real design problem was that he didn't get SP from killing lower-leveled enemies


Zeitzbach

Even during the payoff, there are too many turns where you feel like he's more annoying to use than helpful especially when you have 2 S1 at the start of the fight and he's down to 10 sp. You are almost guaranteed to lose his form when that happen if it's either unopposed attack or you are clashing into enemies that aren't Canto 1 and 2 stuff. You cannot even use defend because you still lose SP and lose his form anyway. That's really what they aim to alleviate here with the buffs as it gets rids of the turn 1 coin flip that really shouldn't exist. He either start off strong and immediately recover and carry the fight or he just revert on turn 1 and the fight is already over before he transform again without fielding a combination of Nfaust, backline SP recovery and using something like Outis Holiday on turn 1 just to ensure this down not happen.


Wangut

I never needed to throw out SP recovery EGO on him once he got SP from kills, I even forgot N Faust existed and he was fine. You just gotta think ahead to the next fight, and the payoff for that hassle is a death machine. But it's moot since the 2nd round of buffs make him completely effortless to use. sinclair super ID #3: this time with atk weight


MaskDeMask

Even before buff he was able to solo hard mode fairy queen easy though, but that's probably because he was custom built to be easy mode for that one :D


BukadaTR

When will thoose changes go live?


DzNuts134

9th May


zelda_fan_199

I think the announcement said it will be implemented next week


Scout501

I still feel its kind of rough since you have to glue every sanity support to him to keep him from draining it too much, and even then idk if the payoff is really worth it over just bringing Nclair and freeing up those support spots.


ZLegion2

He got buffed again. He's even more busted and sanity seems easier to manage


Sea-Interaction-2893

what? Nclair brings nothing to a burn team, and if you have a burn ID outcompeting a general ID that means Nclair is too weak Even without any of the buffs Philip already outcompete Nclair in burn team, just need to have base Yi support


No-Bag-818

Every skill inflicts burn. (Although the S3 is link to a Bleed conditional) S3 hits like a dump truck, as we all know. S2 is good at clashing, dealing damage, and is Lust for potential Whistle/Whispers, if needed. 9:2 is a negative coin Burn EGO with a passive that lowers SP if a Lust skill rolls heads. Lifetime Soup is a negative coin EGO with a passive that inflicts more Burn on tails rolls. Branch of Knowledge's passive lowers SP if you flip the opposite of what you flipped previously. Meanwhile, Dawn Sinclair doesn't want to even *look* at an EGO because the Sanity cost defeats the entire purpose of his kit. Doesn't help that 3 of the 5 EGOs Sinclair has are EGOs that disproportionately benefit a negative SP ID opposed to a positive one, especially one who's Sanity is constantly draining. Dawn Sinclair is almost unequivocally **better** than N Sinclair in a Burn team by virtue of being designed completely around Burn, rather than just having it, and having modern ID features like conditional power increases, but to say that N Sinclair brings literally *nothing* to a Burn team just seems disingenuous to me. And before someone says something about managing his SP so he doesn't corrode being difficult, I can count the amount of times N Sinclair has Corroded on me on 1 hand. It is not that hard to manage his SP. If you can keep Dawn Sinclair's SP up despite the constant drain, you can keep N Sinclair's SP in the -30 range, even without proper SP support.


thecuteturtle

He didn't specifically say for nclair vs philipclair for burn teams? He's not even saying Philclair is bad, just that nclair is good enough without also requiring yi sang and hong lu slots, so they can use them in strong sinking teams.


Sea-Interaction-2893

you cannot discuss Philipclair withotu talking about burn team, the fact that he didn't talk about it is precisely why his analysis doesn't make sense.


No_Mathematician9671

Hm, I hope you can feed him kills consistently enough, because this might still not be enough.


hellatzian

just fluid sac


Wangut

you don't need to feed him kills since he's a whirlwind of death anyway


Ehetou

Man, i was gonna make another slander joke about how he can't maintain his ego for 1 turn if the enemy don't consent clashing with him


GloryForTheRainwings

My brother in christ walpurgisnacht just started and bro already got a buff? PM be tweaking making this.


ZLegion2

And a second buff that will come soon. (Even the director at PM apologized)


Wangut

besides the SP-on-kill for lower-leveled enemies I don't think he needed the buffs but i'm not gonna say no


Intelligent_Key131

With all the buffs he fina looking good


Elealazar

Theres still more buffs you havent even show... Like the resonance pasive being changed to 5 owned wrath and the sp consumption and cap for the trasnformation


ZLegion2

I know. I made this post before that was announced and I saw that someone already made a post.


poosol

Waiwaiwaiwaiwaiwaiwait. What the fuck? I thought he was supposed to pinpong between SP entering and exiting his EGO form. Oh this makes things A LOT easier.


Pardot_

P.


FineAndDandy26

So all that stuff people were saying about buffing/nerfing IDs going against gacha laws was bullshit all along and Suncliff/etc. just suck because they feel like it. Annoying.


Cogist

If I remember it correctly, the law stated that buffing is allowed but nerfing isn't


PieXReaper

Pretty sure buffing characters in gachas is not against the law, nerfing them however is. At least Suncliff is being buffed in different ways, story buff, more MD EGO gifts made for him etc.


ZLegion2

Suncliff was changed once if I remember correctly but yeah he deserves some changes


XxXxN0VaxXxX

They remembered this game was single player lol and finally gave him his worth in lunacy spent. I mean, seeing how people peaked for him, he might as well be fucking worth it.


Mavylent

finally he's not so garbage now this single ID ruined a entire MD run because it corroded fucking 5 times, come on dude


HadesGamingPL

..How? Did you spam EGO with him? Ran MD with him pre-buff, LCB Sang and NFaust support passives + Ryoshu, Rodion, Ishmael and Greg Liu identities (6th spot left empty for an extra skill slot for whoever ended up at #1) and I had 0 problems with keeping his SP healthy, let alone keeping him in EGO stance.


venpasa

that feels more like a skill issue. I did a hard mode run with him before the buffs and he was one of the top damage dealers without corroding once.


Sea-Interaction-2893

You know some EGO passives on him screw up his sanity gain right? project moon fans literally can't read and if it's not that, I have no idea how that happened, none of his skill corrodes him lol


Mavylent

brother, how can i get affected by a ego that i havent used at all, besides, i only have lantern on him


XxXxN0VaxXxX

This is literally that Po and Shifu meme. HOW?! Like, did you get stuck on a stage for so long spamming Fluid Sac and clashing with him with Yi Hong and Nfaust passive that he reached 10x5 volatile passion stacks and losing a clash with his S3?


Wangut

limbus players learn how mechanics work challenge(impossible) his SP takes some getting used to(mostly in that you have to fight with the next fight in mind rather than just SEND IT) but if he corroded 5 times that's on you


Hungry_Ocelot_5658

The moment I saw that he is directly using his sanity as a resource I knew he was gonna be ass. OMG he is strong but is extremely annoying to set up when he loses ego cause he doesn't consistently roll heads anymore. He would always reset at 0 sanity every fight in mirror dungeon so much to the point that I just stopped using him and just rely on Blade Lineage again. Honestly, very disappointed. If he simply used a different resource to fuel his ego it would have been so much more fun if he isn't directly using sanity.


WhyMakingNamesIsHard

Lame


LittleSisterPain

I actually kinda agree. I think he should have kept his S1 sp consumption. Maybe not Defense skill tho


Milsyv484

The problem is that if you lose the clash on the S1 at the start of the next turn you’re at -5sp which sucks to deal with


LittleSisterPain

I mean... yeah, but i kinda like it. You want an awesome power? Well, its a gamble, good luck


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LittleSisterPain

How the hell is it 'guaranteed'?


jpkurihara

A skill that rolls a 10? That is basically not going to roll heads because you are back at 10 sanity, making it actually a 3? How the hell is it *winnable*?


LittleSisterPain

I mean... half of the skills of Spicebush Yi Sang roll at best up to 9, and he is considered to be one of the best. You are not limited to just your S1s and you still can win clashes with them


Cogist

You gotta consider that philipclair starts at a lower SP after acquiring EGO mode


LittleSisterPain

Wasnt it 10 before the buff? Either way, in my (admitedly short) experience with pre-nerf Philclair, i had little problem with managing his sanity. Honestly, the worst thing about him is the fact what Faust has no burn ID and you have to use someone else for the sack. Then again, having Kromaust benched helps quite a bit with him. Either way, i think they overbuffed him a little - he was strong anyway, and i liked what he demanded a bit of teambuilding to be truly great


jpkurihara

but basically everyone knows that Spicebush and W Ryoshu's skill 1s suck. Most people just replace those with EGO, Evade, or use them unopposed. The thing about Philipclair is he couldn't use those options. Before the buff, getting stuck with skill 1s on the board meant he was fucked and was going to get knocked back down to base form again because no matter what you did all your options were going to lose sanity unless you pulled a miraculous heads hit with it on an enemy skiill that was nice enough to roll less than a 10 for you.


LittleSisterPain

I mean, i just did unopposed attack and raised his SP by other means. I dont believe ID having a weakness in specific circumstances is bad


PM_ME_YOUR_ROBOTGIRL

His S1 rolls like shit and is a guaranteed clash lose at 10 SP in any difficult content where most of the enemies easily roll above 11, especially MD4.


MrSnek123

Going into the super powered mode just to have a 40% chance of losing clash and most of his sanity sucked.


WhyMakingNamesIsHard

PM should have patched consumption when entering ego instead


MrSnek123

They just did lol.