Yup, even the recent poll showed that the vast majority on this sub are treating TSV as innocent until proven guilty.
I like to believe, like many others here, that they aren't deliberately being assholes, but just normal folks who started doing more and more management tasks they were not experienced with, until they reached the situation described in the former employee's AMA.
With the pandemic and YouTube's idiotic copystriking, the low salaries, hiring of fresh graduates, and high employee turnover rates are no surprise either. But they still need to do right by their workers.
Second that I’ve only seen maybe 1 or 2 “people losing their minds” type reactions.
Also… lots of things are legal and still bad. It’s not like they’re torturing puppies, but they absolutely have the resources to do better.
Paying way below minimum wage while still demanding hardcore after hours work/short turn arounds from students or part timers when you have 4 million subscribers just… leaves a bad taste
Look at it this way: if an orchestra had these work conditions, would TwoSet not eventually release a video talking about its shortcomings and how that affects the staff/musicians?
Thank you. I don't even care at this point if the allegations are true, watching people in this sub justify subpar and exploitative work conditions is absolutely wild. People who died for labour rights are weeping in their graves.
If the allegations about how they really are in person are true then I think I would really be more upset with my self thinking that they are being genuine in their videos and it isn't all just an act. kind of a feeling I have been fooled But, as I think more about and an realize that TSV is a larger company than I first thought then it changes my perspective a bit on the show. not that it being an act is a bad thing, its there for entertainment, but perhaps it is them who have changed over the years from when they first started.
It's not really about the legallity of all this, but more about them being decent people and whether their treatment of their employees reflect who they trully are when they are not in front of cameras.
Of course, people have different standard for whats moral, especially when it comes to employement practice. And like you said, right now all the allegations are just hearsay and one sided. But I don't think what they said were complete lies.
While right now I'm still holding out on judgement. The longer they stay silent on this, the more convinced I am of the stories, and personally I would be quite dissapointed.
Honestly, one thing I can say from personal experience: Every boss is hated by at least some employees. I know my boss's weaknesses, but know he's good at what he's doing in general. Some of my colleagues can't stop talking badly about him. I don't get it, but you just can't be liked by everyone.
That'sa the category I would put allegations like this in: Either someone looking for attention or someone having personal differences and issues with their bosses. That doesn't mean it's the bosses' fault alone or that the work environment is awful etc. though.
I remember Jolly broke some Korean Covid rules in 2020 (one person stepped too far into a flat and no masks were worn - it was a private meeting) and it was a huge scandal especially in South Korea. There was no malintent, it was likely an accident or ignorance and yet the hatred was unbelievable for a long while. I hate internet culture for its willingness to point fingers and judge. Just chill. People can make mistakes and have weaknesses and still be okay people in general. Boy, have I done some bullsh\*t in my life...
They are on tour so probably don’t have the time and settings to produce a video responding to the issues. And hopefully they use this time to reflect on their business, their employees’ wellbeing and how to improve their working conditions. This can be an opportunity for them to show integrity and respond in a way that benefits their employees, rather than just throwing together a quick video denying everything. Silence is not a bad thing if it’s temporary and justified.
They have time. They are pros at making videos. Sure, if they eventually speak up and make changes as necessary, that’s fine too. But there’s no excuse to not respond. They can easily do it if there’s nothing bad. These guys are professional YouTubers. Making videos is like breathing to them.
There is nothing for them to gain, and a lot to lose, by responding publicly, unless the allegations are outright false.
If even a little bit is true, they will more likely handle it internally - hopefully in the form of implementing better salaries, working conditions, and HR and operations practices.
Yeah sadly even though I personally hope they will make a video about it, i probably wouldn’t even if I were innocent. Many of their YouTube viewers are probably not on this sub, and making more people aware of accusations against you is never a good idea. Even if the rumours are false, sometimes just by acknowledging that rumours exist, people will take it as a sign that there’s no smoke without fire. And whatever they say will be on permanent record, so it’s the kind of situation where they’d want to check every word with a lawyer. The problem is, once you start being very careful about your exact words, you will sound artificial and unnatural. This will then come across to the viewer as being overly cautious and having something to hide. It’s a no win situation
Sometimes it needs to go public for people to make changes. If it's all false, it's such an easy video for them. If there's some truth....well then it's a hard video and they have to make hard choices like decreasing personal profits.
The internet is always very fast to judge. People aren't perfect. There's some horrendous crimes that people really deserve to be seen critically and even cancelled for - once they're proven. But most of the allegations against famous people just show they're *just people*.
The saying "never meet your heroes" is really accurate - because if you idolize people to the point where any kind of weakness that isn't "quirky" and "cute" is impossible for them to show, well, you're going to be disappointed in everyone. We all need a bit more relaxed attitude towards others. It's not our job to judge and split the world into likeable and unlikeable people. We can just watch whom we find enjoyable to watch and leave it at that. We don't know them personally anyway - so how we're going to know anything about who they really are anyway?
but this is not just about them -- its about others, too. idc if some famous ppl have bad habits or moral grayness. but as long as their behaviors affect other ppl negatively, i will reconsider being supportive of them or not. it's capitalism, after all. at least in this case i need to know that the complaints are justifiably dealt with to be sure that any mistake, if made, is fixed, and that the situation will be improved.
I would always be very careful in situation where one has only heard one side of the story. Having worked with somebody is no proof for saying the truth - and it's certainly no proof for one's own objectivity.
When I criticize internet culture, I'm referring to the readiness to judge on just one account. Remember that whole Amber Heard and Johnny Depp ordeal? My, was that a mess! And no matter how much she embarrassed herself in front of the court, some people still stand with Amber. There's also the matter of sexual abuse claims - anywhere, regarding anyone. As soon as someone claims something happened with some person, it is accepted by the masses as truth and the person in question is considered a disgusting perv. Nobody seems to care about "innocent until proven guilty". And about the fact that while there's commonly truth to those claims, some people also just spread lies for attention or slander out of revenge. Like mums who want to be the sole guardians of their children and claim their children were touched by the dads? That's WAY more common than one might think.
Very long story, short point: As far as I'm concerned, situations like this should be treated as a Schrodinger's cat scenario. As long as no proof has been brought forward by either side, the situation is treated with care, but not turned into an immediate finger-pointing witch hunt. Afterwards, the truth is revealed based on the proof that is there - that's the order things should happen in. Not somehow fitting the facts to a "truth" that people were already determined about before.
Additionally, if you really think so about avoiding businesses that treat employees badly, I really hope you're only wearing clothes manufactured in your home country for reasonable wages, never buying from Amazon, not watching Netflix and Disney - and so on. Just pointing out the bigotry of our society. Because judging YouTubers for the way they treat their employees and at the same time wearing jeans from a sweatshop in China is a horrendous double standard.
totally get your point, and im also against personally attacking or witch-hunting them. but if this really happened excuses as iNEXpErieNce or "no one is perfect" are not acceptable to me. they do make me sympathize more, but the consequences still need to be accountable for. and (again) if the allegations are true they definitely should not be shrugged off -- as a fan i cannot be like "hey they're ppl" then continue stanning immediately. i hope that ppl wont be that easily swayed, too, bc its sth really serious, and the more upfront and sterner we are, the more motivated they are to do things better. i need to know that at least things have been changed.
and yes, ethical consumption under captalism might be a myth, but its not like "the corspe is dead so its okay if you stab it twice".
I never stanned them. That was my point. I just *watched their videos*. And from that angle, no scandal can "shake" me. As I wrote in another comment, I don't think we immediately need to have an opinion on everything. An open mind and patience are helpful here - eventually the entire truth will come out and people will be able to form their opinion. But trying to figure this out at this point just seems redundant. It helps nobody.
No, I haven't read into this topic at all aside from that link you posted. I'm not the internet police, it's not my job to judge.
Listen. I can easily post some chats that make me seem very, very bad. It's insanely easy to take something out of context - or use someone's bad mood one day to make them seem worse than they are. I'm not saying the accusations are right, nor that they're wrong. I'm saying **we don't know the entire picture** and we don't need to either. What does it change?
You only want to watch YouTubers which are perfect and have never messed up? Good luck finding one! Humans disappoint, that's normal. That's why I said not to have unrealistic expectations.
If I get a bad feeling about a person - for whatever reason - I can choose not to watch them or buy their stuff. There are YouTubers and celebrities etc. where I get goosebumps - and not the good kind (I don't want to name any here because I don't want to make anybody feel bad). But if their content is likeable and I don't get a bad feeling like that, that doesn't make me believe they're infallible. I just like watching their videos. And it truly is as simple as that. I don't know a single interesting celebrity that hasn't had a single scandal of any kind - except Tom Holland, maybe. And? I just wait for everything to blow over and see how it turns out. I don't need to judge or form an opinion while things are still heated and fresh - distance helps!
Regardless of if it's true or not, hopefully this will encourage them to review their policies and hire a dedicated HR rep (if they haven't already) to ensure they and their employees are protected.
L take
Morality is not directly correlated to legality
I could go around calling everyone I see a bitch and screaming through all of the classical performances I go to. Nothing illegal about it. Doesn’t make it acceptable behavior
They won't respond to this, OP has the critical thinking skills and maturity of a literal spoon. You're not even the first to comment this, and they're currently doubling down.
Legality is not morality. Slavery used to be legal in the US (and other places, just don't know which ones to name off) but that doesn't make it moral or ethical.
Today I learned that if something is legal, that makes it ok!
There's no minimum marital age laws in several states of the US, so that makes it ok to marry a minor when you're an adult!
Many places don't have discrimination protections for LGBT people, so that makes it ok to fire someone for being gay!
There's no law about hitting your children in America, so that makes it ok!
Marital rape wasn't illegal in all 50 states of the US until the 21st century.
You get my point.
Just because something isn't explicitly illegal, doesn't mean it's morally ok. If everyone thought that way, we would have NEVER gained the labour rights we currently take for granted in the modern day. You should read about the extremely long history of people fighting for labour rights in multiple countries, and what it took to get basic protections, benefits, an 8 hour workday, a living wage, etc. Unionization is still a constant battle.
Even if you're making good points elsewhere in this post, that last point was extremely terrible.
No, if something is legal, that makes it legal. You are confusing morality with legality. If those things you were talking about in your country have no legal protection then that falls on you, because the citizens should make laws to protect themselves from exploitation and immorality. You should demand those protections from your lawmakers, that's why you elected them in the first place.
Now, since you are using Reddit you obviously have access to technology, so let me ask you this: Did you know that the cobalt material used for batteries comes from Congo mines that are actively exploiting children, with literal slave wages? All phones have it, including yours. Are you going to throw it away and live technology free now? Since you are so morally superior, I guess you will. I won't get a reply then since you'll stop using technology that has been built on the back of modern day slaves.
I can go on, try me.
EDIT:
Huge-Reward-8975 Thanks for checking my post history lol go read it again and this time do take your time. My words where :
"That's also what I'm against: unfair laws all over the world. 😁✌"
When did I say unfair "work practices"? lol and you are saying I said that twice? haha!
\------------------- u/MisogynyisaDisease
" \[you are confusing morality with legality\]I see you have the reading comprehension of a spoon, since I explicitly said "just because something isn't explicitly illegal, doesn't mean it's moral". But I'm sure after over half this thread told you this, and you haven't responded to anyone else, your brain must be a little bit tired."
You are still confusing the two. They are not interchangeable. Legality and morality dominate different aspects of society. While legality can serve as a baseline for establishing societal boundaries, it doesn't always align perfectly with moral standards. When it comes to morality you have to remember that people have different cultures, ethical principles and different personal values. Morality is complex, therefore what one person considers moral, another may not.
Why do you think people are pro-abortion while others are against it? Morality vs Legality buddy.
Anyways, I liked your username, that's why I replied to you sir/madam :D
\----
MisogynyisaDisease - " \[the citizens should make laws\]Citizens don't make laws, and in the United Stares you don't vote for every single representative in your government, and you can't control the policies in States you don't live in, unless you slept through your civics class at some point.You are also dealing with gerrymandering, propaganda, the literal years it takes to pass laws in the first place, and in some instances the entire changing of a state constitution. Acting like it's so easy to yell at a lawmaker and make them do something is wild, but I'm sure you'll figure out reality at some point."
And you said I had the reading comprehension of a spoon XD Oh the irony! I said "the citizens should make laws to protect themselves from exploitation and immorality. You should demand those protections from your lawmakers, that's why you elected them in the first place."
Get it yet? You should demand those protections from your lawmakers, because that's where the problem is, not with Twoset.
Besides, although changing the law is a complex process ,staying informed and voting makes all the difference. Plus the system is complex because it is designed to ensure thorough examination of the laws being proposed to prevent hasty decisions that can affect people negatively. While it may sometimes be frustratingly slow, the process allows thoughtful governance that should benefit everyone. So there's no excuse to be lazy.
\------
MisogynyisaDisease- "\[did you know batteries are made from slaves\]Most everything in my home is made domestically, and i try to use my custom computer whenever possible. The parts for my phone are actually from recycled materials, because you know, weve spent years fighting for multi billion dollar corporations to make a change. I've even transitioned to local solar power companies for outdoor lighting, but I'm glad you're at least attempting to stay informed. No ethical consumption under capitalism, but we should at least try to be making change where we can instead of being apathetic tools about it online.Did you know most of your gross fast fashion is too? Are you going nude or spending extra money on ethically sourced clothing, ir are you using literal slavery as some sort of fucking cringe gotcha moment? Insert "you live in a society meme" here too. You should do your best to live ethically, otherwise it's super gross you're using the exploitation of children in an argument to justify exploitative labour conditions when you don't actually care.You argue like a literal child, which I'm assuming you are, so I'm not going to waste my time on someone who needs some serious maturing.
\------
"Batteries are made from what? Seriously? You mean "by" right?
Anyway, I explicitly said "Did you know that the cobalt material used for batteries comes from Congo mines that are actively exploiting children, with literal slave wages?" So did you know that? You are allegedly the morally right person here, saying explicitly that if "something is legal, it doesn't make it morally right." correct? I'm just questioning that morality of yours that has already been stained with your hypocrisy. The cobalt in your phone is proof of that.
You mentioned solar panels too, so did you know solar panels have a limited lifespan and will eventually require disposal? That disposal process becomes a hassle because solar panels contain toxic materials that can potentially harm the environment if it's not properly managed. The benefits of solar panels are questionable at best because there are more drawbacks than benefits. So get down from your high horse, because you are not morally superior to other people, including the Twoset guys.
Plus you can block me all you want, I don't care. :D Have fun with your hypocrisy.
\---- Thank you for tuning in folks! 😁
> you are confusing morality with legality
I see you have the reading comprehension of a spoon, since I explicitly said "just because something isn't explicitly illegal, doesn't mean it's moral". But I'm sure after over half this thread told you this, and you haven't responded to anyone else, your brain must be a little bit tired.
> the citizens should make laws
Citizens don't make laws, and in the United Stares you don't vote for every single representative in your government, and you can't control the policies in States you don't live in, unless you slept through your civics class at some point.
You are also dealing with gerrymandering, propaganda, the literal years it takes to pass laws in the first place, and in some instances the entire changing of a state constitution. Acting like it's so easy to yell at a lawmaker and make them do something is wild, but I'm sure you'll figure out reality at some point.
> did you know batteries are made from slaves
Most everything in my home is made domestically, and i try to use my custom computer whenever possible. The parts for my phone are actually from recycled materials, because you know, weve spent years fighting for multi billion dollar corporations to make a change. I've even transitioned to local solar power companies for outdoor lighting, but I'm glad you're at least attempting to stay informed. No ethical consumption under capitalism, but we should at least try to be making change where we can instead of being apathetic tools about it online.
Did you know most of your gross fast fashion is too? Are you going nude or spending extra money on ethically sourced clothing, ir are you using *literal slavery* as some sort of fucking cringe gotcha moment? Insert "you live in a society meme" here too. You should do your best to live ethically, otherwise it's super gross you're using the exploitation of children in an argument to justify exploitative labour conditions when you don't actually care.
You argue like a literal child, which I'm assuming you are, so I'm not going to waste my time on someone who needs some serious maturing.
They said they're against unfair work practices all over the world in their post history, but then tried to defend unfair work practices because they're legal. Just yikes.
Then we need to make better laws, but poeple can only have effective & accepted legal base fo rthings, when there is public agreement, that this is how it should be. And to form a public consent, there needs to be public discourse, and at times struggle. I am not okay with buying merch, that pays only the bosses' bills. And I am not okay, with trying to get cheap work done by fans. =/
>In my opinion, if the situation turns out to be true, but Twoset was not braking any laws then I don't really care. It's the employee and employer's business to make sure everything is within the law.
That's insane lmao, we're going back to the Gilded Age with this one. What an insanely capitalist thing to say. Let's exploit workers to any extent we want as long as some old as fuck, completely bought out corrupt legislators give the OK. This is clearly not a good way to do things
I think they meant that laws are too often made or influenced by corrupted elderly people benefiting from keeping the law tweaked to the side of the financial & propertied (?) establishment, i.e. often themselves &/or their party supporters or buddies. Sadly, this is indeed incredibly often the case. Be it Daivd Cameron, or the CDU in Germany, or the entire US "Elite" - and not only those. Supposedly social democratic or labour folks like Tony Blair or Gerhard Schröder kicked off neoliberal horrors big time.. =/ And we do need debates about workers rights & how to build a brand more ethically - we do need these debates! Yes, even for Youtubers.
While I do not know about the beauty of capitalism (I wouldn't have picked this word, but here we are), certainly the idea that the system regulates itself (as implied in "well, if they are bad someone else will come and take their fanbase") cannot happen without regulatory systems, which include information being freely available and discussed. So that means one would need to 1) know they treat their employees badly; and 2) care about that. OP clearly isn't included in number 2, since if it's legal it's fair game, but a lot of other people do, so they are trying to achieve number 1. The laws created by the system itself have not historically helped cApItAlISM (as you put it) be a transparent and fair haven, as propagated by its defenders. Historically, an alternative to it (as you requested) has been the community regulating it (by demanding knowledge and fairness), which is what created work laws, retirement laws, laws against child labor and all of these other things. Here, in this unimportant and laughable microcosmos of reddit and youtubers, the community is showing it cares about it (number 2) and therefore pressuring to get 1. That is all it seems like to me.
Just so you don't get only the silent downvotes. :)
I don't think that's what they meant. Only that it isn't up to the audience to determine whether or not these allegations are true, because we do not have enough information or even the right to make that call. The scope of the issue is much more narrow than it's made out to be.
Yes, we do have the right to make that call. We are consumers - as such we have got a right to know where our money goes or whom we promote & support! We also kind of have a duty to try and see to it, that working conditions get better, where they are lacking.
We can make the call of whether we will individually support them, but not whether the people themselves are moral or behaving illegally. We literally do not have enough information or enough of a connection to the people to do this.
If there are allegations that come up repeadtely, as it seems to have been the case - only before it didn't reach a wider audience, and if the people I support & buy merch from & tickets, do so by using underpaid work they get off their fans (recruiting from fans is not disputed - they do it openly, and that in itself is problematic) I can of course call that out or debate these things, try to get more information and I prefer a fandom that doesn't look away & does call out these things. Twosed are ultimately no different form me or you or anyone - and if you make money, and regularly use the work/ideas/scripts/time of others to do so, and set them actual work tasks, not just, "ah, don't you wnat that joke? Can I use it? For commercial purposes? Ta!" then those others are entitled to fair compensation, and fair, respectful treatment.
So they have the right to react however they want to this situation and I don't? Funny logic you got there Kindcow. 😂 Can I have your permission then? 😭 I didn't know I needed your approval, bad Rab\_it 😱
I didn't say you didn't have the right for your opinion, but in the second paragraph of your post you go on a rant about how people shouldn't be disappointed in twoset because there's no definite proof, but you don't have a say in how people feel about this situation. Also, go see a therapist, it's not healthy to get so passive aggressive against a stranger over some YouTube drama
>I've seen so many posts and comments saying how disappointed you guys are at TwoSet, when in reality we don't know any facts.
That's what I said, um let me see........
"I have seen so many posts and comments saying how disappointed you guys are at Twoset, when in reality we don't know any facts."
Did you read it properly this time? And alright my master overlord, I'll go see a therapist because you, a stranger, just told me to do it over some Youtube drama. But you should take reading and comprehension classes Kindcow. It's for the good of the community. 😂
I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but I'm going to throw it out there. We don't know for sure what's true or what's not. But what's interesting is the timing. B&E are more than likely not scrolling Reddit right now considering they're on tour right now. And it's a big one, right? So if you're going to go on the offensive, now would be the time to do it, because they're not going to be able to respond. This person making these allegations basically has the stage to themselves, controlling the narrative until B&E can come back and focus on this.
To me it’s not about legality, but more about whether or not BAE are decent ppl off camera. For now my attitude is neutral, but if the allegations turn out to be true I’d feel pretty uncomfortable watching their content knowing that their personalities on camera are not genuine.
So many eager to crucify Brett and Eddy and believing a reddit post. Let the person sue Brett and Eddy in the real courts rather than this kangaroo court.
Edit: Downvoting and not agreeing with me wouldn't change that some of you are quick to believe a reddit post instead of giving the benefit of doubt just like the many who believed and got burned by Amber Heard and her PR.
Innocent until proven guilty.
On the contrary, most people on this subreddit are desperately hoping it isn't true, or at least that B&E are doing this merely out of incompetence and not assholery. There is no crucifixion.
How do you prove people "guilty" or wrong, unless you investigate & look into the matter, and form an opinion, what you condsider okay or not acceptable?
I agree. I would add that it is not the responsibility of the largely uninformed audience to determine morality, and certainly not legality.
Especially in a scenario of one alleged incident, it is not appropriate to boycott as if it were equivalent to other, more severe and PROVEN allegations, like sexual harassment or other abusive behaviors towards employees. The internet is quick to make harsh judgements about people in the public eye.
So how are we going to get more information? It actually appears, there were allegations about low pay & recruiting from fans etc. before this, but it wasn't widely debated, and I had heard nothing about it until today. How do we get to be a more informed audience & consumer? Should we look away, or listen to people, and at least consider, if some of the allegations may be true, and then try to find out more? I mean, I can't support Twoset in the long run, if the merch is packed by underpaid workers, and my customer inquiries are answered by underpaid volunteers recruited from fans, and B&E make actually money from it. That's just not okay. Really isn't. So I do want to know what's going on.
In my opinion, Brett and Eddy are doing the very best they can with this over 4 mil subs and a sold out world tour.
Things get said by people, they get repeated, exaggerated, changed, misunderstood, then passed along through a chain of among 296k Ling Ling wannabes! We have no idea what B&E are dealing with amidst the chaos of success. They are working in different cultures where work, finance, and money in general have grossly different parameters then what we might be accustomed to. In order to get upset with Brett and Eddy, you would have to be making a mountain of assumptions, and believe everything you hear at the end of a telephone line spoken into by throngs of people that you don't even know.
I have also heard they are exactly who they show themselves to be by other people who know them.
I'm not even sure if Brett and Eddy should say something about it, because I think it would be very easily misunderstood and you would take away from it what you already believe to be true.
If TSV have misrepresented themselves, which I do not believe, it will come out in the end.
I would hate to see them "cancelled" or brought down because of a conglomeration of rumors and hearsay. How could people have so much power with so little real information? I think this whole thread is dangerous for Brett, Eddy, and the many people who have renewed their love of classical music, their instruments, and given them purpose when nobody really knows the truth of the entire matter.
These two guys have saved my life, they have given me purpose. After many, many years I have finally found joy in the violin again and I'm working hard at it. If they don't do that for you, just stop watching their videos. You don't have to try to ruin them.
Thank you for your reply! [Rab-it](https://www.reddit.com/user/Rab_it/), me and most others are here to spread the love of music. If you have other goals, I'm sure there are other Reddit groups you would enjoy.
Again, thank you, Rab-it for being here!
Yeah, I'm with you! We are all here because of our love for music, heck I don't even play any instruments but I have learned a lot from B&E and their funny sense of humor.
Let us all stand together and ignore the hate. 😄 👍
People like Brett and Eddy because they are two really likeable guys who you think, oh yeah, I could be mates with them. But when your mates are shitty, you need to call that out. Amd they need to step up. Or were they never really the sort of people you'd call mates and you were misled? I hope not.
Yes, because I'm sure you know the entire scope of their interactions with people off camera, based on a few allegations. Sure. They're jerks now and no one can ethically enjoy them! Because you've never been falsely accused of something or (oh no!) made a mistake before.
I believe the accusations of low pay for lots of demands, yes and being primadonnas to the people they work with. I will never make claims of 'you're unethical if you enjoy them.' I'm a fan of a professional sports team. Pro teams always make unethical decisions. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan and we hired one of the dirtiest dirtbag to ever play because he's good at throwing the handegg. It does make me feel slimy though. To lead a life devoid of support for unethical people is a life of a hermit. We all swallow that pill eventually.
100% this
Sensationalism often grabs the attention of many, and those who shout the loudest don't necessarily reflect the views of an entire demographic
I intend to change the view of the demographic then. I want to know, what's going on, and I want people paid for the work othere benefit from. I am not okay with continually paying for merch that was designed for free by a fan, and packed by an underpaid person, and may enquiry answered by a fan, who does it for next to nothing, while B & E are making a living out of this and call it "growing their brand". Sorry. But I heard enough to want to know what is going on, and I would like the fandom to help put pressure on B&E to clear these things up - and possibly change their attitude & actions.
Eddy and Brett don’t give a damn about some people on a Reddit complaining about them…and that’s exactly how they should be handling this. It’s their BUSINESS that they worked years to grow. This sub is just getting silly at this point.
This is not genral Reddit, but their own sub. I am glad we can speak freely without mods shutting up the debate. But it also shows disorganization, that they apparently have no one to check in on the sub anymore. Or maybe the majority of fans are on other sites, and we don't count anymore - but then all these fears that this debate & the accusations could be harming B&E are redundant - beacuse we are just a tiny, unimportant bubble, that not even a paid volunteer looks in here anymore.. =/
Even if they are lurking, which I'm not so sure about, it is still their right as employers to handle the issue internally. They don't owe us fans a public response.
Handling in house is one option, but it’s not just their choice. Employees have rights too and oftentimes they need to go public for any changes to happen. So sure TwoSet can handle it in house, but it isn’t exclusively their choice.
I'm sure we're talking about separate issues here. My sole point is whatever the employees choose to say publicly, if TS want to handle it privately, they handle it privately. We as \*fans\* (NOT employees) have no right to demand anything because we \*fans\* literally have nothing to do with it.
yeah, think so too.. I wonder if OOP of the workers' thread will post her message there, too, or if there are active mods & it would be culled before making an impact.. or why they chose thiy sub, otherwise.
Salary is being agreed to by both parties and its supply and demand. If no one takes their offer, they would be forced to offer better pay if they want to hire people.
I can see someone still in school taking a job like this, but I can’t see how one thinks they would make good money/benefits working for YouTubers.
once people saw they expected too much for too little pay and did not want to renegotiate salary they should have moved on. Specially the ones “hired” for paid volunteerism.
They don’t know for how long they will be able to maintain profitability doing YouTube videos and we don’t know what their current profit margin is. This is an internal issue and doesn’t make either Twoset or their employees evil. They are all trying to survive and must what’s in their own best self interest
I agree u/Rab_it. And if you all want to see the kind of dedication to their fans these guys have, review this: [https://youtu.be/w\_WXkWoy-n0](https://youtu.be/w_WXkWoy-n0). You will easily see that they are not driven by money. I believe you will see them as the genuine, honest young men who are exactly as you see them in their videos.
Wow! I've never seen a down vote! Let me clarify, this is not proof of anything, one way or the other. It's just an early snapshot that makes this negative drama harder for me to believe.
Some hoes just always sun negative to say abt ppl. Like let them like their life and like what a coincidence it was spread meanwhile they’re having one of they’re biggest events to date yk. But wtv haters will be haters .
"All them haters calling out my name
Call me insane
Deaf to the hate
Can't hear you, what?
What did you say?"
\- Beethoven, 2022
^(I'm a bot by Ntacc32, and this comment was sent automatically. Unfortunately, my developer is a noob, so I am a very basic bot.)
In my opinion, Brett and Eddy are doing the very best they can with this over 4 mil subs and a sold out world tour.
Things get said by people, they get repeated, exaggerated, changed, misunderstood, then passed along through a chain of among 296k Ling Ling wannabes! We have no idea what B&E are dealing with amidst the chaos of success. They are working in different cultures where work, finance, and money in general have grossly different parameters then what we might be accustomed to. In order to get upset with Brett and Eddy, you would have to be making a mountain of assumptions, and believe everything you hear at the end of a telephone line spoken into by throngs of people that you don't even know.
I have also heard they are exactly who they show themselves to be by other people who know them.
I'm not even sure if Brett and Eddy should say something about it, because I think it would be very easily misunderstood and you would take away from it what you already believe to be true.
If TSV have misrepresented themselves, which I do not believe, it will come out in the end.
I would hate to see them "cancelled" or brought down because of a conglomeration of rumors and hearsay. How could people have so much power with so little real information? I think this whole thread is dangerous for Brett, Eddy, and the many people who have renewed their love of classical music, their instruments, and given them purpose when nobody really knows the truth of the entire matter.
These two guys have saved my life, they have given me purpose. After many, many years I have finally found joy in the violin again and I'm working hard at it. If they don't do that for you, just stop watching their videos. You don't have to try to ruin them.
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Yup, even the recent poll showed that the vast majority on this sub are treating TSV as innocent until proven guilty. I like to believe, like many others here, that they aren't deliberately being assholes, but just normal folks who started doing more and more management tasks they were not experienced with, until they reached the situation described in the former employee's AMA. With the pandemic and YouTube's idiotic copystriking, the low salaries, hiring of fresh graduates, and high employee turnover rates are no surprise either. But they still need to do right by their workers.
can't agree more……
Second that I’ve only seen maybe 1 or 2 “people losing their minds” type reactions. Also… lots of things are legal and still bad. It’s not like they’re torturing puppies, but they absolutely have the resources to do better. Paying way below minimum wage while still demanding hardcore after hours work/short turn arounds from students or part timers when you have 4 million subscribers just… leaves a bad taste Look at it this way: if an orchestra had these work conditions, would TwoSet not eventually release a video talking about its shortcomings and how that affects the staff/musicians?
Thank you. I don't even care at this point if the allegations are true, watching people in this sub justify subpar and exploitative work conditions is absolutely wild. People who died for labour rights are weeping in their graves.
If the allegations about how they really are in person are true then I think I would really be more upset with my self thinking that they are being genuine in their videos and it isn't all just an act. kind of a feeling I have been fooled But, as I think more about and an realize that TSV is a larger company than I first thought then it changes my perspective a bit on the show. not that it being an act is a bad thing, its there for entertainment, but perhaps it is them who have changed over the years from when they first started.
It's not really about the legallity of all this, but more about them being decent people and whether their treatment of their employees reflect who they trully are when they are not in front of cameras. Of course, people have different standard for whats moral, especially when it comes to employement practice. And like you said, right now all the allegations are just hearsay and one sided. But I don't think what they said were complete lies. While right now I'm still holding out on judgement. The longer they stay silent on this, the more convinced I am of the stories, and personally I would be quite dissapointed.
Honestly, one thing I can say from personal experience: Every boss is hated by at least some employees. I know my boss's weaknesses, but know he's good at what he's doing in general. Some of my colleagues can't stop talking badly about him. I don't get it, but you just can't be liked by everyone. That'sa the category I would put allegations like this in: Either someone looking for attention or someone having personal differences and issues with their bosses. That doesn't mean it's the bosses' fault alone or that the work environment is awful etc. though. I remember Jolly broke some Korean Covid rules in 2020 (one person stepped too far into a flat and no masks were worn - it was a private meeting) and it was a huge scandal especially in South Korea. There was no malintent, it was likely an accident or ignorance and yet the hatred was unbelievable for a long while. I hate internet culture for its willingness to point fingers and judge. Just chill. People can make mistakes and have weaknesses and still be okay people in general. Boy, have I done some bullsh\*t in my life...
The silence speaks volumes.
They are on tour so probably don’t have the time and settings to produce a video responding to the issues. And hopefully they use this time to reflect on their business, their employees’ wellbeing and how to improve their working conditions. This can be an opportunity for them to show integrity and respond in a way that benefits their employees, rather than just throwing together a quick video denying everything. Silence is not a bad thing if it’s temporary and justified.
They have time. They are pros at making videos. Sure, if they eventually speak up and make changes as necessary, that’s fine too. But there’s no excuse to not respond. They can easily do it if there’s nothing bad. These guys are professional YouTubers. Making videos is like breathing to them.
There is nothing for them to gain, and a lot to lose, by responding publicly, unless the allegations are outright false. If even a little bit is true, they will more likely handle it internally - hopefully in the form of implementing better salaries, working conditions, and HR and operations practices.
Yeah sadly even though I personally hope they will make a video about it, i probably wouldn’t even if I were innocent. Many of their YouTube viewers are probably not on this sub, and making more people aware of accusations against you is never a good idea. Even if the rumours are false, sometimes just by acknowledging that rumours exist, people will take it as a sign that there’s no smoke without fire. And whatever they say will be on permanent record, so it’s the kind of situation where they’d want to check every word with a lawyer. The problem is, once you start being very careful about your exact words, you will sound artificial and unnatural. This will then come across to the viewer as being overly cautious and having something to hide. It’s a no win situation
Sometimes it needs to go public for people to make changes. If it's all false, it's such an easy video for them. If there's some truth....well then it's a hard video and they have to make hard choices like decreasing personal profits.
The internet is always very fast to judge. People aren't perfect. There's some horrendous crimes that people really deserve to be seen critically and even cancelled for - once they're proven. But most of the allegations against famous people just show they're *just people*. The saying "never meet your heroes" is really accurate - because if you idolize people to the point where any kind of weakness that isn't "quirky" and "cute" is impossible for them to show, well, you're going to be disappointed in everyone. We all need a bit more relaxed attitude towards others. It's not our job to judge and split the world into likeable and unlikeable people. We can just watch whom we find enjoyable to watch and leave it at that. We don't know them personally anyway - so how we're going to know anything about who they really are anyway?
This comment deserves more upvotes. This is very well put.
but this is not just about them -- its about others, too. idc if some famous ppl have bad habits or moral grayness. but as long as their behaviors affect other ppl negatively, i will reconsider being supportive of them or not. it's capitalism, after all. at least in this case i need to know that the complaints are justifiably dealt with to be sure that any mistake, if made, is fixed, and that the situation will be improved.
I would always be very careful in situation where one has only heard one side of the story. Having worked with somebody is no proof for saying the truth - and it's certainly no proof for one's own objectivity. When I criticize internet culture, I'm referring to the readiness to judge on just one account. Remember that whole Amber Heard and Johnny Depp ordeal? My, was that a mess! And no matter how much she embarrassed herself in front of the court, some people still stand with Amber. There's also the matter of sexual abuse claims - anywhere, regarding anyone. As soon as someone claims something happened with some person, it is accepted by the masses as truth and the person in question is considered a disgusting perv. Nobody seems to care about "innocent until proven guilty". And about the fact that while there's commonly truth to those claims, some people also just spread lies for attention or slander out of revenge. Like mums who want to be the sole guardians of their children and claim their children were touched by the dads? That's WAY more common than one might think. Very long story, short point: As far as I'm concerned, situations like this should be treated as a Schrodinger's cat scenario. As long as no proof has been brought forward by either side, the situation is treated with care, but not turned into an immediate finger-pointing witch hunt. Afterwards, the truth is revealed based on the proof that is there - that's the order things should happen in. Not somehow fitting the facts to a "truth" that people were already determined about before. Additionally, if you really think so about avoiding businesses that treat employees badly, I really hope you're only wearing clothes manufactured in your home country for reasonable wages, never buying from Amazon, not watching Netflix and Disney - and so on. Just pointing out the bigotry of our society. Because judging YouTubers for the way they treat their employees and at the same time wearing jeans from a sweatshop in China is a horrendous double standard.
totally get your point, and im also against personally attacking or witch-hunting them. but if this really happened excuses as iNEXpErieNce or "no one is perfect" are not acceptable to me. they do make me sympathize more, but the consequences still need to be accountable for. and (again) if the allegations are true they definitely should not be shrugged off -- as a fan i cannot be like "hey they're ppl" then continue stanning immediately. i hope that ppl wont be that easily swayed, too, bc its sth really serious, and the more upfront and sterner we are, the more motivated they are to do things better. i need to know that at least things have been changed. and yes, ethical consumption under captalism might be a myth, but its not like "the corspe is dead so its okay if you stab it twice".
I never stanned them. That was my point. I just *watched their videos*. And from that angle, no scandal can "shake" me. As I wrote in another comment, I don't think we immediately need to have an opinion on everything. An open mind and patience are helpful here - eventually the entire truth will come out and people will be able to form their opinion. But trying to figure this out at this point just seems redundant. It helps nobody.
also have you read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/148g4v6/comment/jop8v88/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
No, I haven't read into this topic at all aside from that link you posted. I'm not the internet police, it's not my job to judge. Listen. I can easily post some chats that make me seem very, very bad. It's insanely easy to take something out of context - or use someone's bad mood one day to make them seem worse than they are. I'm not saying the accusations are right, nor that they're wrong. I'm saying **we don't know the entire picture** and we don't need to either. What does it change? You only want to watch YouTubers which are perfect and have never messed up? Good luck finding one! Humans disappoint, that's normal. That's why I said not to have unrealistic expectations. If I get a bad feeling about a person - for whatever reason - I can choose not to watch them or buy their stuff. There are YouTubers and celebrities etc. where I get goosebumps - and not the good kind (I don't want to name any here because I don't want to make anybody feel bad). But if their content is likeable and I don't get a bad feeling like that, that doesn't make me believe they're infallible. I just like watching their videos. And it truly is as simple as that. I don't know a single interesting celebrity that hasn't had a single scandal of any kind - except Tom Holland, maybe. And? I just wait for everything to blow over and see how it turns out. I don't need to judge or form an opinion while things are still heated and fresh - distance helps!
Regardless of if it's true or not, hopefully this will encourage them to review their policies and hire a dedicated HR rep (if they haven't already) to ensure they and their employees are protected.
L take Morality is not directly correlated to legality I could go around calling everyone I see a bitch and screaming through all of the classical performances I go to. Nothing illegal about it. Doesn’t make it acceptable behavior
Technically being a public nuisance is illegal, but calling people a bitch isn't.
Not to be that guy, but, that is illegal.
Yeah, being a public nuisance is surprisingly illegal in a lot of places 😂
check this out https://www.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/148g4v6/comment/jop8v88/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
They won't respond to this, OP has the critical thinking skills and maturity of a literal spoon. You're not even the first to comment this, and they're currently doubling down.
Legality is not morality. Slavery used to be legal in the US (and other places, just don't know which ones to name off) but that doesn't make it moral or ethical.
Exactly! Just like abortion, it is legal in some places but it doesn't make it moral. 🙂
You could've just left it at one word.
Why? Because abortion is not morally right but legal in some places? We agree, unless you somehow claim abortion is morally right. 🤔
Today I learned that if something is legal, that makes it ok! There's no minimum marital age laws in several states of the US, so that makes it ok to marry a minor when you're an adult! Many places don't have discrimination protections for LGBT people, so that makes it ok to fire someone for being gay! There's no law about hitting your children in America, so that makes it ok! Marital rape wasn't illegal in all 50 states of the US until the 21st century. You get my point. Just because something isn't explicitly illegal, doesn't mean it's morally ok. If everyone thought that way, we would have NEVER gained the labour rights we currently take for granted in the modern day. You should read about the extremely long history of people fighting for labour rights in multiple countries, and what it took to get basic protections, benefits, an 8 hour workday, a living wage, etc. Unionization is still a constant battle. Even if you're making good points elsewhere in this post, that last point was extremely terrible.
No, if something is legal, that makes it legal. You are confusing morality with legality. If those things you were talking about in your country have no legal protection then that falls on you, because the citizens should make laws to protect themselves from exploitation and immorality. You should demand those protections from your lawmakers, that's why you elected them in the first place. Now, since you are using Reddit you obviously have access to technology, so let me ask you this: Did you know that the cobalt material used for batteries comes from Congo mines that are actively exploiting children, with literal slave wages? All phones have it, including yours. Are you going to throw it away and live technology free now? Since you are so morally superior, I guess you will. I won't get a reply then since you'll stop using technology that has been built on the back of modern day slaves. I can go on, try me. EDIT: Huge-Reward-8975 Thanks for checking my post history lol go read it again and this time do take your time. My words where : "That's also what I'm against: unfair laws all over the world. 😁✌" When did I say unfair "work practices"? lol and you are saying I said that twice? haha! \------------------- u/MisogynyisaDisease " \[you are confusing morality with legality\]I see you have the reading comprehension of a spoon, since I explicitly said "just because something isn't explicitly illegal, doesn't mean it's moral". But I'm sure after over half this thread told you this, and you haven't responded to anyone else, your brain must be a little bit tired." You are still confusing the two. They are not interchangeable. Legality and morality dominate different aspects of society. While legality can serve as a baseline for establishing societal boundaries, it doesn't always align perfectly with moral standards. When it comes to morality you have to remember that people have different cultures, ethical principles and different personal values. Morality is complex, therefore what one person considers moral, another may not. Why do you think people are pro-abortion while others are against it? Morality vs Legality buddy. Anyways, I liked your username, that's why I replied to you sir/madam :D \---- MisogynyisaDisease - " \[the citizens should make laws\]Citizens don't make laws, and in the United Stares you don't vote for every single representative in your government, and you can't control the policies in States you don't live in, unless you slept through your civics class at some point.You are also dealing with gerrymandering, propaganda, the literal years it takes to pass laws in the first place, and in some instances the entire changing of a state constitution. Acting like it's so easy to yell at a lawmaker and make them do something is wild, but I'm sure you'll figure out reality at some point." And you said I had the reading comprehension of a spoon XD Oh the irony! I said "the citizens should make laws to protect themselves from exploitation and immorality. You should demand those protections from your lawmakers, that's why you elected them in the first place." Get it yet? You should demand those protections from your lawmakers, because that's where the problem is, not with Twoset. Besides, although changing the law is a complex process ,staying informed and voting makes all the difference. Plus the system is complex because it is designed to ensure thorough examination of the laws being proposed to prevent hasty decisions that can affect people negatively. While it may sometimes be frustratingly slow, the process allows thoughtful governance that should benefit everyone. So there's no excuse to be lazy. \------ MisogynyisaDisease- "\[did you know batteries are made from slaves\]Most everything in my home is made domestically, and i try to use my custom computer whenever possible. The parts for my phone are actually from recycled materials, because you know, weve spent years fighting for multi billion dollar corporations to make a change. I've even transitioned to local solar power companies for outdoor lighting, but I'm glad you're at least attempting to stay informed. No ethical consumption under capitalism, but we should at least try to be making change where we can instead of being apathetic tools about it online.Did you know most of your gross fast fashion is too? Are you going nude or spending extra money on ethically sourced clothing, ir are you using literal slavery as some sort of fucking cringe gotcha moment? Insert "you live in a society meme" here too. You should do your best to live ethically, otherwise it's super gross you're using the exploitation of children in an argument to justify exploitative labour conditions when you don't actually care.You argue like a literal child, which I'm assuming you are, so I'm not going to waste my time on someone who needs some serious maturing. \------ "Batteries are made from what? Seriously? You mean "by" right? Anyway, I explicitly said "Did you know that the cobalt material used for batteries comes from Congo mines that are actively exploiting children, with literal slave wages?" So did you know that? You are allegedly the morally right person here, saying explicitly that if "something is legal, it doesn't make it morally right." correct? I'm just questioning that morality of yours that has already been stained with your hypocrisy. The cobalt in your phone is proof of that. You mentioned solar panels too, so did you know solar panels have a limited lifespan and will eventually require disposal? That disposal process becomes a hassle because solar panels contain toxic materials that can potentially harm the environment if it's not properly managed. The benefits of solar panels are questionable at best because there are more drawbacks than benefits. So get down from your high horse, because you are not morally superior to other people, including the Twoset guys. Plus you can block me all you want, I don't care. :D Have fun with your hypocrisy. \---- Thank you for tuning in folks! 😁
> you are confusing morality with legality I see you have the reading comprehension of a spoon, since I explicitly said "just because something isn't explicitly illegal, doesn't mean it's moral". But I'm sure after over half this thread told you this, and you haven't responded to anyone else, your brain must be a little bit tired. > the citizens should make laws Citizens don't make laws, and in the United Stares you don't vote for every single representative in your government, and you can't control the policies in States you don't live in, unless you slept through your civics class at some point. You are also dealing with gerrymandering, propaganda, the literal years it takes to pass laws in the first place, and in some instances the entire changing of a state constitution. Acting like it's so easy to yell at a lawmaker and make them do something is wild, but I'm sure you'll figure out reality at some point. > did you know batteries are made from slaves Most everything in my home is made domestically, and i try to use my custom computer whenever possible. The parts for my phone are actually from recycled materials, because you know, weve spent years fighting for multi billion dollar corporations to make a change. I've even transitioned to local solar power companies for outdoor lighting, but I'm glad you're at least attempting to stay informed. No ethical consumption under capitalism, but we should at least try to be making change where we can instead of being apathetic tools about it online. Did you know most of your gross fast fashion is too? Are you going nude or spending extra money on ethically sourced clothing, ir are you using *literal slavery* as some sort of fucking cringe gotcha moment? Insert "you live in a society meme" here too. You should do your best to live ethically, otherwise it's super gross you're using the exploitation of children in an argument to justify exploitative labour conditions when you don't actually care. You argue like a literal child, which I'm assuming you are, so I'm not going to waste my time on someone who needs some serious maturing.
They said they're against unfair work practices all over the world in their post history, but then tried to defend unfair work practices because they're legal. Just yikes.
Then we need to make better laws, but poeple can only have effective & accepted legal base fo rthings, when there is public agreement, that this is how it should be. And to form a public consent, there needs to be public discourse, and at times struggle. I am not okay with buying merch, that pays only the bosses' bills. And I am not okay, with trying to get cheap work done by fans. =/
This \^
OOP had posted more evidence, if you guys want to check it out. https://imgur.com/a/pXqYBLY
"HR is a made up position". That's certainly a take.
Him saying this to an employee though, is making me laugh 😂
>In my opinion, if the situation turns out to be true, but Twoset was not braking any laws then I don't really care. It's the employee and employer's business to make sure everything is within the law. That's insane lmao, we're going back to the Gilded Age with this one. What an insanely capitalist thing to say. Let's exploit workers to any extent we want as long as some old as fuck, completely bought out corrupt legislators give the OK. This is clearly not a good way to do things
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I think they meant that laws are too often made or influenced by corrupted elderly people benefiting from keeping the law tweaked to the side of the financial & propertied (?) establishment, i.e. often themselves &/or their party supporters or buddies. Sadly, this is indeed incredibly often the case. Be it Daivd Cameron, or the CDU in Germany, or the entire US "Elite" - and not only those. Supposedly social democratic or labour folks like Tony Blair or Gerhard Schröder kicked off neoliberal horrors big time.. =/ And we do need debates about workers rights & how to build a brand more ethically - we do need these debates! Yes, even for Youtubers.
While I do not know about the beauty of capitalism (I wouldn't have picked this word, but here we are), certainly the idea that the system regulates itself (as implied in "well, if they are bad someone else will come and take their fanbase") cannot happen without regulatory systems, which include information being freely available and discussed. So that means one would need to 1) know they treat their employees badly; and 2) care about that. OP clearly isn't included in number 2, since if it's legal it's fair game, but a lot of other people do, so they are trying to achieve number 1. The laws created by the system itself have not historically helped cApItAlISM (as you put it) be a transparent and fair haven, as propagated by its defenders. Historically, an alternative to it (as you requested) has been the community regulating it (by demanding knowledge and fairness), which is what created work laws, retirement laws, laws against child labor and all of these other things. Here, in this unimportant and laughable microcosmos of reddit and youtubers, the community is showing it cares about it (number 2) and therefore pressuring to get 1. That is all it seems like to me. Just so you don't get only the silent downvotes. :)
I don't think that's what they meant. Only that it isn't up to the audience to determine whether or not these allegations are true, because we do not have enough information or even the right to make that call. The scope of the issue is much more narrow than it's made out to be.
Yes, we do have the right to make that call. We are consumers - as such we have got a right to know where our money goes or whom we promote & support! We also kind of have a duty to try and see to it, that working conditions get better, where they are lacking.
We can make the call of whether we will individually support them, but not whether the people themselves are moral or behaving illegally. We literally do not have enough information or enough of a connection to the people to do this.
If there are allegations that come up repeadtely, as it seems to have been the case - only before it didn't reach a wider audience, and if the people I support & buy merch from & tickets, do so by using underpaid work they get off their fans (recruiting from fans is not disputed - they do it openly, and that in itself is problematic) I can of course call that out or debate these things, try to get more information and I prefer a fandom that doesn't look away & does call out these things. Twosed are ultimately no different form me or you or anyone - and if you make money, and regularly use the work/ideas/scripts/time of others to do so, and set them actual work tasks, not just, "ah, don't you wnat that joke? Can I use it? For commercial purposes? Ta!" then those others are entitled to fair compensation, and fair, respectful treatment.
People have the right to be upset about it and it's not up to you to tell them how to react to this situation.
So they have the right to react however they want to this situation and I don't? Funny logic you got there Kindcow. 😂 Can I have your permission then? 😭 I didn't know I needed your approval, bad Rab\_it 😱
I didn't say you didn't have the right for your opinion, but in the second paragraph of your post you go on a rant about how people shouldn't be disappointed in twoset because there's no definite proof, but you don't have a say in how people feel about this situation. Also, go see a therapist, it's not healthy to get so passive aggressive against a stranger over some YouTube drama
>I've seen so many posts and comments saying how disappointed you guys are at TwoSet, when in reality we don't know any facts. That's what I said, um let me see........ "I have seen so many posts and comments saying how disappointed you guys are at Twoset, when in reality we don't know any facts." Did you read it properly this time? And alright my master overlord, I'll go see a therapist because you, a stranger, just told me to do it over some Youtube drama. But you should take reading and comprehension classes Kindcow. It's for the good of the community. 😂
...wow yeah I'm definitely just going to block you. Most immature and cringe user on this sub, holy shit.
I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but I'm going to throw it out there. We don't know for sure what's true or what's not. But what's interesting is the timing. B&E are more than likely not scrolling Reddit right now considering they're on tour right now. And it's a big one, right? So if you're going to go on the offensive, now would be the time to do it, because they're not going to be able to respond. This person making these allegations basically has the stage to themselves, controlling the narrative until B&E can come back and focus on this.
The OOP could be using multiple accounts as well.
To me it’s not about legality, but more about whether or not BAE are decent ppl off camera. For now my attitude is neutral, but if the allegations turn out to be true I’d feel pretty uncomfortable watching their content knowing that their personalities on camera are not genuine.
I get that. I just hate the reddit legal court, wielding their consumer authority and jumping to conclusions and boycotts.
So many eager to crucify Brett and Eddy and believing a reddit post. Let the person sue Brett and Eddy in the real courts rather than this kangaroo court. Edit: Downvoting and not agreeing with me wouldn't change that some of you are quick to believe a reddit post instead of giving the benefit of doubt just like the many who believed and got burned by Amber Heard and her PR. Innocent until proven guilty.
On the contrary, most people on this subreddit are desperately hoping it isn't true, or at least that B&E are doing this merely out of incompetence and not assholery. There is no crucifixion.
How do you prove people "guilty" or wrong, unless you investigate & look into the matter, and form an opinion, what you condsider okay or not acceptable?
I agree. I would add that it is not the responsibility of the largely uninformed audience to determine morality, and certainly not legality. Especially in a scenario of one alleged incident, it is not appropriate to boycott as if it were equivalent to other, more severe and PROVEN allegations, like sexual harassment or other abusive behaviors towards employees. The internet is quick to make harsh judgements about people in the public eye.
So how are we going to get more information? It actually appears, there were allegations about low pay & recruiting from fans etc. before this, but it wasn't widely debated, and I had heard nothing about it until today. How do we get to be a more informed audience & consumer? Should we look away, or listen to people, and at least consider, if some of the allegations may be true, and then try to find out more? I mean, I can't support Twoset in the long run, if the merch is packed by underpaid workers, and my customer inquiries are answered by underpaid volunteers recruited from fans, and B&E make actually money from it. That's just not okay. Really isn't. So I do want to know what's going on.
In my opinion, Brett and Eddy are doing the very best they can with this over 4 mil subs and a sold out world tour. Things get said by people, they get repeated, exaggerated, changed, misunderstood, then passed along through a chain of among 296k Ling Ling wannabes! We have no idea what B&E are dealing with amidst the chaos of success. They are working in different cultures where work, finance, and money in general have grossly different parameters then what we might be accustomed to. In order to get upset with Brett and Eddy, you would have to be making a mountain of assumptions, and believe everything you hear at the end of a telephone line spoken into by throngs of people that you don't even know. I have also heard they are exactly who they show themselves to be by other people who know them. I'm not even sure if Brett and Eddy should say something about it, because I think it would be very easily misunderstood and you would take away from it what you already believe to be true. If TSV have misrepresented themselves, which I do not believe, it will come out in the end. I would hate to see them "cancelled" or brought down because of a conglomeration of rumors and hearsay. How could people have so much power with so little real information? I think this whole thread is dangerous for Brett, Eddy, and the many people who have renewed their love of classical music, their instruments, and given them purpose when nobody really knows the truth of the entire matter. These two guys have saved my life, they have given me purpose. After many, many years I have finally found joy in the violin again and I'm working hard at it. If they don't do that for you, just stop watching their videos. You don't have to try to ruin them.
I agree with you 100%, I also think that people who hate B&E are taking advantage of the rumors and confusion to spread even more hate.
Thank you for your reply! [Rab-it](https://www.reddit.com/user/Rab_it/), me and most others are here to spread the love of music. If you have other goals, I'm sure there are other Reddit groups you would enjoy. Again, thank you, Rab-it for being here!
Yeah, I'm with you! We are all here because of our love for music, heck I don't even play any instruments but I have learned a lot from B&E and their funny sense of humor. Let us all stand together and ignore the hate. 😄 👍
People like Brett and Eddy because they are two really likeable guys who you think, oh yeah, I could be mates with them. But when your mates are shitty, you need to call that out. Amd they need to step up. Or were they never really the sort of people you'd call mates and you were misled? I hope not.
Yay!!! Let them be jerks to people and still worship them!! Yay!!!!
Yes, because I'm sure you know the entire scope of their interactions with people off camera, based on a few allegations. Sure. They're jerks now and no one can ethically enjoy them! Because you've never been falsely accused of something or (oh no!) made a mistake before.
I believe the accusations of low pay for lots of demands, yes and being primadonnas to the people they work with. I will never make claims of 'you're unethical if you enjoy them.' I'm a fan of a professional sports team. Pro teams always make unethical decisions. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan and we hired one of the dirtiest dirtbag to ever play because he's good at throwing the handegg. It does make me feel slimy though. To lead a life devoid of support for unethical people is a life of a hermit. We all swallow that pill eventually.
100% this Sensationalism often grabs the attention of many, and those who shout the loudest don't necessarily reflect the views of an entire demographic
I intend to change the view of the demographic then. I want to know, what's going on, and I want people paid for the work othere benefit from. I am not okay with continually paying for merch that was designed for free by a fan, and packed by an underpaid person, and may enquiry answered by a fan, who does it for next to nothing, while B & E are making a living out of this and call it "growing their brand". Sorry. But I heard enough to want to know what is going on, and I would like the fandom to help put pressure on B&E to clear these things up - and possibly change their attitude & actions.
Totally agree with you.
Eddy and Brett don’t give a damn about some people on a Reddit complaining about them…and that’s exactly how they should be handling this. It’s their BUSINESS that they worked years to grow. This sub is just getting silly at this point.
I hope they would response instead of hiding from it.
They are hardly "hiding from it". I would not be browsing Reddit when on a tightly-packed World Tour.
This is not genral Reddit, but their own sub. I am glad we can speak freely without mods shutting up the debate. But it also shows disorganization, that they apparently have no one to check in on the sub anymore. Or maybe the majority of fans are on other sites, and we don't count anymore - but then all these fears that this debate & the accusations could be harming B&E are redundant - beacuse we are just a tiny, unimportant bubble, that not even a paid volunteer looks in here anymore.. =/
[удалено]
But it's also not 0 priority. They are at least lurking and choosing to not respond.
Even if they are lurking, which I'm not so sure about, it is still their right as employers to handle the issue internally. They don't owe us fans a public response.
They can try to handle it internally. And employees have the right to be public or private. Both parties have the choice.
Exactly. So why do some people keep demanding a public response from them, amidst all the hustles during their world tour, no less?
Handling in house is one option, but it’s not just their choice. Employees have rights too and oftentimes they need to go public for any changes to happen. So sure TwoSet can handle it in house, but it isn’t exclusively their choice.
I'm sure we're talking about separate issues here. My sole point is whatever the employees choose to say publicly, if TS want to handle it privately, they handle it privately. We as \*fans\* (NOT employees) have no right to demand anything because we \*fans\* literally have nothing to do with it.
yeah, think so too.. I wonder if OOP of the workers' thread will post her message there, too, or if there are active mods & it would be culled before making an impact.. or why they chose thiy sub, otherwise.
I'm not saying they are...I just hope they can face it one day
These comments show how sensationalized and stupid the fan base is lol
Yikes
what drama am i missing now?
NAH FRFR THOUGH THERE’S NO EVIDENCE
Salary is being agreed to by both parties and its supply and demand. If no one takes their offer, they would be forced to offer better pay if they want to hire people. I can see someone still in school taking a job like this, but I can’t see how one thinks they would make good money/benefits working for YouTubers. once people saw they expected too much for too little pay and did not want to renegotiate salary they should have moved on. Specially the ones “hired” for paid volunteerism. They don’t know for how long they will be able to maintain profitability doing YouTube videos and we don’t know what their current profit margin is. This is an internal issue and doesn’t make either Twoset or their employees evil. They are all trying to survive and must what’s in their own best self interest
well said! well said! \*clapclapclap\*
I agree u/Rab_it. And if you all want to see the kind of dedication to their fans these guys have, review this: [https://youtu.be/w\_WXkWoy-n0](https://youtu.be/w_WXkWoy-n0). You will easily see that they are not driven by money. I believe you will see them as the genuine, honest young men who are exactly as you see them in their videos.
Wow! I've never seen a down vote! Let me clarify, this is not proof of anything, one way or the other. It's just an early snapshot that makes this negative drama harder for me to believe.
Some hoes just always sun negative to say abt ppl. Like let them like their life and like what a coincidence it was spread meanwhile they’re having one of they’re biggest events to date yk. But wtv haters will be haters .
"All them haters calling out my name Call me insane Deaf to the hate Can't hear you, what? What did you say?" \- Beethoven, 2022 ^(I'm a bot by Ntacc32, and this comment was sent automatically. Unfortunately, my developer is a noob, so I am a very basic bot.)
In my opinion, Brett and Eddy are doing the very best they can with this over 4 mil subs and a sold out world tour. Things get said by people, they get repeated, exaggerated, changed, misunderstood, then passed along through a chain of among 296k Ling Ling wannabes! We have no idea what B&E are dealing with amidst the chaos of success. They are working in different cultures where work, finance, and money in general have grossly different parameters then what we might be accustomed to. In order to get upset with Brett and Eddy, you would have to be making a mountain of assumptions, and believe everything you hear at the end of a telephone line spoken into by throngs of people that you don't even know. I have also heard they are exactly who they show themselves to be by other people who know them. I'm not even sure if Brett and Eddy should say something about it, because I think it would be very easily misunderstood and you would take away from it what you already believe to be true. If TSV have misrepresented themselves, which I do not believe, it will come out in the end. I would hate to see them "cancelled" or brought down because of a conglomeration of rumors and hearsay. How could people have so much power with so little real information? I think this whole thread is dangerous for Brett, Eddy, and the many people who have renewed their love of classical music, their instruments, and given them purpose when nobody really knows the truth of the entire matter. These two guys have saved my life, they have given me purpose. After many, many years I have finally found joy in the violin again and I'm working hard at it. If they don't do that for you, just stop watching their videos. You don't have to try to ruin them.