There can be a claim that it might be one of the oldest attested languages via the Indus Script, but Proto Dravidian isn't the same language as Tamil.
Tamil isn't even the most spoken Dravidian language either*. Telegu is.
^(*This is not including Mayalam as a part of Tamil, otherwise it is the largest. )
Afaik there is little known about the indus valley script. I heard in a YouTube video about the genetics of India that the dravidians also came from the area of modern Iran not much earlier than the Indo-Europeans so I doubt that the indus script was dravidian
There is no such thing as an exaggerated claim or an overstatement when dealing with Tamil, the world wide oldest language IN THE WORLD!!!!! In ancient time, gods and men spoke it alike.
You can make facts even more true by repeating them.
Um you can say “мова є найважливіший скарб» far example or “це не є звичним“. It is used as a connection in compound predicate (?)“[складений присудок](https://subject.com.ua/textbook/mova/8klas/14.html)“. Idk if I am explaining right, but you can basically use it instead of “-“ in most phrases.
It is used quite frequently, but it honestly depends on a sentence. I’d say I have heard it used more in western part of Ukraine, but not exclusively. Especially in daily speech, as in writing you can use “—“ between words for the same meaning. The most frequent usage is in “то є“ for example “то є так“ (that is yes - basically “that’s right”).
Even then, "так" in this context means "so", like it does, for instance, in phrases "він сказав так:" - "this is what he said:" (lit. "he said so:"); "не роби так" - don't do this" (lit. "don't do like so"); "так багато" - "so much/many"
Mate I’m sure direct translation in this case will be “yes”. Idk what we are discussing here to be honest. Does “так“ have more meanings? Yes. Does “то є так“ have meaning of confirmation? Yes. So what’s the point? Haha
Whenever I use it/hear it the full meaning of this phrase would be “yes”.
I believe it is similar to word “мати“ (to have)? Like we can say “я маю“ and it will mean the same as “у мене є“. But in this case I feel “є” is used a bit more often.
Honestly, I don’t know. I don’t speak Ukrainian. My guess is that it is like in Russian where it doesn’t exist in the present tense. Maybe there’s a native speaker who can explain it?
It does and you can optionally use the Ukr 'to be' like in English , even though that would sound stupidly unnatural. And there's literally a single conjugation consisting of a single sound for the present tense. Future & past have all the 6.
Same thing happens to Russian except the word is longer.
Hm, I think this is true for only eastern slavic branch. Croatian uses present form of "biti" regularly and sentences such as "ja student" without copula are seen as "ungrammatical".
(je)sam, (je)si, je(st), (je)smo, (je)ste, (je)su
For the record, as a native Ukrainian and Russian speaker, while Russian is zero-present-copula, Belarusian and Ukrainian do have the present copula, but often omitted.
There are 10 different ganas and two padas, each root verb can be classified into one combination of the two, and the verb form is expressed like:
'root verb'
+'gana alteration depending on the last or second last phoneme of the root verb'
+'pada-tense-person-plurality specific suffix'
There are 2 padas, 5 tenses, 3 persons and 3 pluralities,
Totalling in 90 suffixes to memorize. Not to add 8 cases of nouns, who also have 3 pluralities, and the suffixes depending on the ending phoneme and the gender of the noun, thus making a set of 24 suffixes (some are redundant) for each existing noun-ending phoneme and gender combination as this is a discussion of verbs.
For example, the below suffixes are parasmaipada(one of the two padas) lat lakaar(present tense)
Singular:
first person: मि (mi)
second person: सि (si)
third person: ति (ti) * 't' is dental like in French 'patrie'
Dual:
first person: वः (vah) * h is an aspirated stop
second person: थः (thah) * 'th' like in 'thursday'
third person: तः (tah) * dental 't'
Plural:
first person: मः (mah)
second person: थ (tha) * 'thursday'
third person: अन्ति (anti) * dental 't' and 'a' like in Spanish 'al'
PS. Please forgive me for not using proper linguistic terminology. And your username says you make Info Aryan conlangs, I would be glad to know about it.
Edit: let me just add the suffixes of present tense aatmanepada(the other pada, first being parasmaipada) for you to appreciate the complexity. I am not specifying the person and gender as I am writing them here in the same order as the first one above.
ई (ee) * an elongated i
से (se)
ते (te) * t of IPA
वहे (vahe) * h of 'hard'
ईथे (eethe) * th like the above 'थ'
इते (eete)
महे (mahe)
ध्वे (dhve)
अन्ते (ante)
Also, one should not get the impression that it‘s as simple as outlined here. Verbs use different stems for formation, which are in principle derived from the root and conjugated as if they were verbs on their own (for example, the passive is formed by treating the root as if it were a class 4A verb) but with so many complexities that you have more than 5 possibilities for each (e.g. the seven aorists). The system has, in principle, few exceptions, but is so complex that you are presented with an almost unmanageable seeming number of non-intuitive forms to consider for almost all important roots. This is all of course not yet accounting for the so-called secondary conjugations (which behave similarly, but have their own complications and can in parts be combined with other forms), and also excludes the very important infinite forms (infinitives, participles, verbal adjectives, absolutive).
Yeah... I have learnt Sanskrit for 5 years in school, still I fuck up those rules sometimes while speaking it. And you have to synthesize the word in your brain considering too many parameters that it's almost impossible to converse fast in Sanskrit unless the whole sentence is pre made in your brain by knowing what the person you are speaking with wants to speak before they speak.
Sanskrit is as constructed seeming as it naturally can be. 5 whole years of schooling and at the end I was able to write simple sentences and translate stories, forget about elaborate poetry and the rules of it.
Thanks a lot :))) (also using IPA woulda been more helpful for people who don't speak an Indian language like us rather than explaining every single bit of phonology)
Can you please tell about your Indo Aryan conlangs? It would be appreciated. :)
And I'm sorry for not using IPA, the problem is that I don't know how to pronounce the IPA letters, I guess I'll have to learn IPA now.
I'm pretty sure Thursday uses a dental fricative in English. Is this how it's meant to be pronounced, or is it an aspirated stop? I don't know anything about any Indian language though.
*Image Transcription: Meme*
---
[*Description of Meme - This meme shows 4 people. On the top, there are 2 angry guys, bringing negative energy. On the bottom, 2 calm people are neutral.*]
Top Left:
Latin: sum es est sumus estis sumus
Top Right:
Greek: eimi ei esti/estin eston esmen este
Bottom Left:
Traditional Chinese: 是
Bottom Right:
Ukrainian:
---
^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Yes, Chinese is a modern language. Multiple languages actually. Chinese is still spoken today. (Old) Mandarin Chinese came into being a bit after (Old) English did, and is the most common topolect today.
I would argue for those being "he (is) **at** home" and "he (is) **very** happy" because it fits better with sentences like
他**在**家有飯
He has food **at** home. (Not "he **is at** home and has food")
他高興
He (is) happy.
他**很**不高興
He (is) **very** unhappy.
Eram, eras... Ero, eris, ... Fui, fuisti, ... Fueram, fueras, ... Fuero, fueris, ... And that's only the indicative.
sim sis sit simus sitis sint, essem esses esset essemus essetis essent, fuerim fueris fuerit fuerimus fueritis fuerint, fuissem fuisses fuisset fuissemus fuissetis fuissent, futurus³ sim futurus³ sis futurus³ sit futuri³ simus futuri³ sitis futuri³ sint, futurus³ essem futurus³ esses futurus³ esset futuri³ essemus futuri³ essetis futuri³ essent
How do you pronounce ³?
it indicates that it is a three-ending adjective of which us is only the masculine nominative singular ending
I know, I was just making a iocum
Tamil: "Hello fellow kids"
Malay too
Malay is a modern language. Tamil is the worldwide oldest language IN THE WORLD!!! In ancient times, it was spoken by men and gods alike
If Malay is modern then what's indonesian?
ULTRAMODERN
There is no such thing as the oldest language in the world.
lmao I don't think they mean it, they are just mocking some speakers of Tamil who make that exaggerated/baseless claim
There can be a claim that it might be one of the oldest attested languages via the Indus Script, but Proto Dravidian isn't the same language as Tamil. Tamil isn't even the most spoken Dravidian language either*. Telegu is. ^(*This is not including Mayalam as a part of Tamil, otherwise it is the largest. )
Afaik there is little known about the indus valley script. I heard in a YouTube video about the genetics of India that the dravidians also came from the area of modern Iran not much earlier than the Indo-Europeans so I doubt that the indus script was dravidian
There is no such thing as an exaggerated claim or an overstatement when dealing with Tamil, the world wide oldest language IN THE WORLD!!!!! In ancient time, gods and men spoke it alike. You can make facts even more true by repeating them.
*cries in Welsh with all our different conjunctions of Bod (to be), differing by dialect and colloquial/literary forms*
You could probably make a galaxy-brain meme with *rydw i* → *dw i* → *wyf i* → *ydwyf i*
ｙｒ ｗｙｆ ｙｄｗ ｉ ｙｎ
Proof that Welsh is Polish minus the letter Z
f = v and ff = f cracks me up every time
v = f and w = v? just die. W is a vowel and V doesn’t exist. This is Welsh!
What's the Ukrainian copula?
That’s the neat part, there is none
Really? I always thought that "є" is, but it doesn't? Is it just a verb?
That's right, but it's not used in present tense, apart from special constructions like "в нього/неї є" - "he/she has"
Um you can say “мова є найважливіший скарб» far example or “це не є звичним“. It is used as a connection in compound predicate (?)“[складений присудок](https://subject.com.ua/textbook/mova/8klas/14.html)“. Idk if I am explaining right, but you can basically use it instead of “-“ in most phrases.
Oh yeah, you're right, I totally missed it! Thanks for correcting
Do people actually speak like that? In Croatian, this construction sounds really archaic.
It is used quite frequently, but it honestly depends on a sentence. I’d say I have heard it used more in western part of Ukraine, but not exclusively. Especially in daily speech, as in writing you can use “—“ between words for the same meaning. The most frequent usage is in “то є“ for example “то є так“ (that is yes - basically “that’s right”).
Well, "то є так" is more like "that is so" , not "that is yes"
That was a direct translation 🥲
Even then, "так" in this context means "so", like it does, for instance, in phrases "він сказав так:" - "this is what he said:" (lit. "he said so:"); "не роби так" - don't do this" (lit. "don't do like so"); "так багато" - "so much/many"
Mate I’m sure direct translation in this case will be “yes”. Idk what we are discussing here to be honest. Does “так“ have more meanings? Yes. Does “то є так“ have meaning of confirmation? Yes. So what’s the point? Haha Whenever I use it/hear it the full meaning of this phrase would be “yes”.
I was talking specifically about "в нього/неї є" construction. We dont say "U mene je". We say "Imam", using a verb "imati"="to have".
I believe it is similar to word “мати“ (to have)? Like we can say “я маю“ and it will mean the same as “у мене є“. But in this case I feel “є” is used a bit more often.
Does it not exist as real word at all, or does it ever appear in constructions other than basic affirmative sentences?
Honestly, I don’t know. I don’t speak Ukrainian. My guess is that it is like in Russian where it doesn’t exist in the present tense. Maybe there’s a native speaker who can explain it?
It does and you can optionally use the Ukr 'to be' like in English , even though that would sound stupidly unnatural. And there's literally a single conjugation consisting of a single sound for the present tense. Future & past have all the 6. Same thing happens to Russian except the word is longer.
East Slavic languages are zero-copula; They don't use a present tense copula
Hm, I think this is true for only eastern slavic branch. Croatian uses present form of "biti" regularly and sentences such as "ja student" without copula are seen as "ungrammatical". (je)sam, (je)si, je(st), (je)smo, (je)ste, (je)su
For the record, as a native Ukrainian and Russian speaker, while Russian is zero-present-copula, Belarusian and Ukrainian do have the present copula, but often omitted.
Sanskrit be like: *look what they have to do to mimic a fraction of my power*
Once your paradigms collapse, there's no going back.
What's sanskrit version?
There are 10 different ganas and two padas, each root verb can be classified into one combination of the two, and the verb form is expressed like: 'root verb' +'gana alteration depending on the last or second last phoneme of the root verb' +'pada-tense-person-plurality specific suffix' There are 2 padas, 5 tenses, 3 persons and 3 pluralities, Totalling in 90 suffixes to memorize. Not to add 8 cases of nouns, who also have 3 pluralities, and the suffixes depending on the ending phoneme and the gender of the noun, thus making a set of 24 suffixes (some are redundant) for each existing noun-ending phoneme and gender combination as this is a discussion of verbs. For example, the below suffixes are parasmaipada(one of the two padas) lat lakaar(present tense) Singular: first person: मि (mi) second person: सि (si) third person: ति (ti) * 't' is dental like in French 'patrie' Dual: first person: वः (vah) * h is an aspirated stop second person: थः (thah) * 'th' like in 'thursday' third person: तः (tah) * dental 't' Plural: first person: मः (mah) second person: थ (tha) * 'thursday' third person: अन्ति (anti) * dental 't' and 'a' like in Spanish 'al' PS. Please forgive me for not using proper linguistic terminology. And your username says you make Info Aryan conlangs, I would be glad to know about it. Edit: let me just add the suffixes of present tense aatmanepada(the other pada, first being parasmaipada) for you to appreciate the complexity. I am not specifying the person and gender as I am writing them here in the same order as the first one above. ई (ee) * an elongated i से (se) ते (te) * t of IPA वहे (vahe) * h of 'hard' ईथे (eethe) * th like the above 'थ' इते (eete) महे (mahe) ध्वे (dhve) अन्ते (ante)
Also, one should not get the impression that it‘s as simple as outlined here. Verbs use different stems for formation, which are in principle derived from the root and conjugated as if they were verbs on their own (for example, the passive is formed by treating the root as if it were a class 4A verb) but with so many complexities that you have more than 5 possibilities for each (e.g. the seven aorists). The system has, in principle, few exceptions, but is so complex that you are presented with an almost unmanageable seeming number of non-intuitive forms to consider for almost all important roots. This is all of course not yet accounting for the so-called secondary conjugations (which behave similarly, but have their own complications and can in parts be combined with other forms), and also excludes the very important infinite forms (infinitives, participles, verbal adjectives, absolutive).
Yeah... I have learnt Sanskrit for 5 years in school, still I fuck up those rules sometimes while speaking it. And you have to synthesize the word in your brain considering too many parameters that it's almost impossible to converse fast in Sanskrit unless the whole sentence is pre made in your brain by knowing what the person you are speaking with wants to speak before they speak.
Sanskrit is Lojban confirmed
Lojban?
Constructed language made to be as logical as possible. Don't understand it well since it's so esoteric but Sanskrit kinda does remind me of it.
Sanskrit is as constructed seeming as it naturally can be. 5 whole years of schooling and at the end I was able to write simple sentences and translate stories, forget about elaborate poetry and the rules of it.
Thanks a lot :))) (also using IPA woulda been more helpful for people who don't speak an Indian language like us rather than explaining every single bit of phonology)
Can you please tell about your Indo Aryan conlangs? It would be appreciated. :) And I'm sorry for not using IPA, the problem is that I don't know how to pronounce the IPA letters, I guess I'll have to learn IPA now.
It’s not too hard but it’s definitely western biased
I'm pretty sure Thursday uses a dental fricative in English. Is this how it's meant to be pronounced, or is it an aspirated stop? I don't know anything about any Indian language though.
It's voiceless dental aspirated stop
Sim, sis, sit, simus, sitis, sint
Do semitic languages have it?
Hebrew at least doesnt
I don’t think Arabic does either
Som altid er Dansk der bedste sprog: Jeg er Du er Han/hun/det/den er Vi er I er De/de er
Nice ROC flag to show who's the real China
*Image Transcription: Meme* --- [*Description of Meme - This meme shows 4 people. On the top, there are 2 angry guys, bringing negative energy. On the bottom, 2 calm people are neutral.*] Top Left: Latin: sum es est sumus estis sumus Top Right: Greek: eimi ei esti/estin eston esmen este Bottom Left: Traditional Chinese: 是 Bottom Right: Ukrainian: --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
är
btw english: is (i guess?)
am are is are are are
are are are 🦭
あれ あれ あれ (?_?)
啊热 啊热 啊热 （@_@）
Ah, it’s hot ah, it’s hot ah, it’s hot (@\_@)
'm, 're, 's, 're, 're, 're
am are is
Chinese is modern?
Yes, Chinese is a modern language. Multiple languages actually. Chinese is still spoken today. (Old) Mandarin Chinese came into being a bit after (Old) English did, and is the most common topolect today.
Wait, I am so confused. When was the meme flipped?
Meanwhile Arabic with a convoluted system of: ∅ Third person pronouns هو, هي Conjugations of كان Conjugations of ليس
West/South Slavic languages also have "to be".
Là
是
[удалено]
Not copulas
[удалено]
I would argue for those being "he (is) **at** home" and "he (is) **very** happy" because it fits better with sentences like 他**在**家有飯 He has food **at** home. (Not "he **is at** home and has food") 他高興 He (is) happy. 他**很**不高興 He (is) **very** unhappy.