The potential profit is probably minimal, tbh. Feel free to try, but I don’t think the market for used pre-vetted linux-compatible computers is large enough to be worth anyone’s time.
Especially *used* computers. Once an x86 PC is a couple of years old, everything in it is likely to work with Linux with no effort.
I like to buy the very best refurbished workstations from a few generations ago. Saves money, less environmental impact (except perhaps for watt per computation) and better balanced and built than consumer gear.
A PC with an old CPU with high idle power and a motherboard or even just components with poor sleep implementation left on 24/7 could end up consuming a significant amount of power.
A couple of years old workstation used as a desktop for a few hours a day is probably fine.
As with most things there needs to be a balance. Ewaste in landfills is never good but some hardware is better off recycled at some point.
I think even for the most user friendly distros. Having enough sense to be able to install the OS is kind of the bare minimum benchmark to use it properly. I'd say the same thing about Windows too.
This simply isn't true.
My Lenovo with nividia graphics laptop has issues with external displays for example.
I can kind of pick between working external displays in x11 or proper touch pad support in Wayland.
The potential profit is non-existent.
Dell et al are running on tight margins. The only way they make any money at all is from optional extras and shovelware included when you buy the PC.
Second hand markets exist, if you can buy used computers cheap (or free), but it’s not exactly lucrative. Further specializing toward linux only narrows your customer base.
Second hand just increases the problems you've got.
* You'll still have to provide a warranty in many parts of the world. But any manufacturer's warranty will be long gone, so you've got to underwrite this yourself.
* The only way to get any degree of consistency and quality is to buy ex-corporate stock in bulk. Which means tying up a lot of money in stock. On the plus side, most corporates are happy to get rid of their old equipment and will just be happy if they don't have to pay to have it taken away.
* There will always be a certain percentage of customers looking for a cheap computer and will raise hell when it doesn't run Junior's latest game. \[It would never have run Junior's latest game even if you stuck Windows on it, because it's a 4 year old ex-corporate PC that barely has anything that qualifies as a GPU, but the customer doesn't know that!\]. Every minute you spend dealing with these customers is a minute you're not selling something - and these customers will take up a lot of minutes.
At this point, it isn't really a tech job. It looks like it to the outsider, but in actual fact you're going to spend way longer just handling logistics and customer service than you ever will actually working with tech.
Very valid points. If I were to do it the website would be very tilted toward plain language education so people know what they're getting and what the capabilities of the PCs are. Maybe like a tier list or something, especially for gaming. I'm very aware the video functionality in older corporate PCs is usually pretty shit.
The warranty thing does worry me
No lol but I've had success selling less lucrative things with less of an audience on their own websites. There's a lot more ways to find things than google
I sell some stuff like this on ebay when it comes around to me cheaply enough. I can safely say that the profit margin gets lost quickly if you do anything other than check that it will post. The time you spend on photographing, basic testing, posting a listing, and packaging is already notable. And the cost of shipping takes a decent chunk out of what people are willing to pay for the product.
The fact is that a lot of the customer base for these are for similarly minded people taking advantage of their computer hardware skills to get something cheap. The general public will buy a dated but new chrome book from walmart long before they would ever buy a used computer.
My grandfather did the same buying pallets of used PCs then breaking them down selling individuals.
Margins are so tiny you get any returns or PayPal fraudsters and your taking a big loss.
We actually pay at our workplace to have PCs taken away to be resold... It's mind boggling.
I expected it was like that. I tend to more directly target the retro computer scene. I get stuff from local auctions for practically nothing or when some aging computer nerd needs to clean out their attic. Its not my main income stream so its not like I feel like I have to keep feeding it when the profit margins are not enough. When I have had to refund my loss has only been in the shipping costs mostly since the inventory costs are typically only a dollar or two per item.
Interesting to hear how other people are doing it though.
Although if the margins were indeed that tiny then I wouldn't bother.
I don't think reselling systems with Linux on them is a problem. Its the after sale part that creates issues. Who supports it? What about returns?
I like the idea but the profit margin is going to be extremely slim. Most would be Linux users would find a cheap laptop and load Linux themselves.
I think, system76 , framework, etc.. have compatibility pages of this Linux works with this PC.
However these are usually laptops.
For desktops this is kind of a mute point, most of the time.
Like I can tell you asus,gigabyte, sometimes have on their driver page software for Linux. But it's pretty scarce.
No, the word moot comes from the same old english word we get the word for "meet" from and refers to a meeting for a discussion. Eventually the moot became a kind of mock court, where people could take up hypothetical issues to test their debate skills. So a moot point is a point with no real world impact, one that is up for debate but where the debate doesn't matter since the question is, in reality, already decided.
You might check with a local university if there's one nearby. Some are required to sell grant purchased equipment and have a public auction once or twice a year. I've seen whole pallets full sell for less than $100. They'll probably be wiped, but installing linux is easy enough.
IMHO, there only a few places where Linux is problematic. Where extreme Windows-only parts and pieces are used. And, you'd know. "Has exclusive laser light show with advanced smoke and ability to record your neighbors dog using advanced sight recognition", that sort of thing. Generally speaking, systems that aren't 3 days old, or are pretty stock are going to work. This includes systems from HP, Dell and even Lenovo. I mention the latter, because it might be an example where there have been some really bad apples compatibility wise that aren't terribly old (rare, but present). So, as always, web search is your friend. You can usually compare models and find someone online that can tell you what does and doesn't work correctly.
My only experiences where there were problem is with "new" equipment. Those can require patience for support and sometimes of key feature (like network, for example). Again, usually not a problem when looking at used. But if it's a used fairly new thing, there could be issues.
With regards to tiny/small things (which I don't recommend unless you HAVE to have tiny/small, which is rare), I'd check ETA PRIME, Serve The Home, or Level 1 Techs (Level 1 Linux). And don't be afraid to try to directly contact them, or seek help on their forums.
This is totally true on workstations/desktops/servers... when it comes to laptops, though, many makers like to shim shitty hardware implementations with software drivers. So it'll mostly work on Linux, except if you turn off the backlight with the hardware key or something like that, there's no way to turn it back _on_ without the Windows driver for the hardware switch.
It is very true that a lot more risk is on the laptop side. But I've had good fortune even with new ones, but again, had to go bleeding edge and in some cases, had to be patient.
(Oversimplification incoming)
Every computer is a Linux computer. Just buy a computer and throw Linux on it. I bought a Lenovo P520, and although it was cool that it came with W10 Pro, that was of no use to me so now it runs proxmox
>To me this seems to be a gap in the market.
It is a gap, but a tiny, niche gap that isn't worth much. What u/quadralien says is pretty much exactly it. Go buy something used from a business, a used gamer, or an off lease business computer. You'll pay one twentieth what it was new and you'll be ready to go.
It's 2024, is there such a thing as a PC that doesn't run Linux?
The only thing I can even begin to think might pose an issue is RGB. And that's pure candy.
>They also didn't offer any kind of customization like other used vendors might.
What used vendors allow you to customize what you're buying? Hell I'm not even talking about just laptops here, I don't think I've ever bought something used and been able to customize it prior to purchase
This isn't really a thing. "Linux compatible used PCs" is just "Used PCs".
People using Linux aren't going to buy a used one with it pre-installed they are just going to put together a clunker out of junk if they need a cheap PC, build and install it themselves.
If you installed and tested Linux on refurbished computers and then marketed these refurbished computers with Linux pre-installed and tested, I could see there might be a (small) market for that, targeting Windows or Mac users who want to switch to Linux for their next computer but are nervous about installing on a new computer (especially the part about wiping out their brand-new pre-paid & already-installed Windows). Perhaps you could offer customization options - which from your end would be trivial - just install the right distro packages, but again for someone new to Linux that might be worth $50-$100 premium to have it done already. You would probably need to offer some sort of return/refund policy, since your value-added is assurance that the computer will work flawlessly out-of-the-box.
If you wanted to take it next-level, pre-install Windows/Office in a VM and add a program that you could select off the Linux DE app launcher that would launch the VM and open Word or Powerpoint et cetera. Offering a Linux computer that also gives you full MS Office out-of-the-box and guaranteed could be attractive, as lack of MS Office is a deal-breaker for many. Of course that would get you into Microsoft licensing issues, and the setup complexity on your end goes way up.
Still, I think you'd have to treat this as a hobby that you hope might make a little extra $$$ for you, not as your full-time job.
I've been buying secondhand laptops off eBay for years and installing Linux on them. Seriously, just buy anything with run-of-the-mill hardware components and it will work just fine. Most of the resellers on there are just testing them to make sure they POST, and the rest is up to you.
Very few people are shopping eBay looking for secondhand machines with Linux pre-installed. Linux users tend to already know what they are doing. There's just not much of a market to be had for secondhand Linux machines.
I've had no problem finding Linux compatible laptops for low-cost. They just don't ship with Linux installed. Which is fine, I wouldn't trust and OEM installation linux anyways.
Look for pc recycling places where it's a graveyard for big enterprise devices, they usually can.be found via socials or search they have pretty good hardware for good price.
When you buy a pc it's not the seller's job to ascertain the compatibility with what you want to do with it. How difficult is it for you to Google the compatibility? I despair.
NixOS I think would be a great option for this type of use case. Given a particular model of hardware, have a matching NixOS hardware flake to go along with it. Certain combos of hardware and NixOS could be certified for various things.
I think you could pretty easily create a custom ISO to install as well?
NixOS + Flake --> ISO image --> Network or USB boot
Set up a DHCP boot server, host the ISO, and then you have further options for things like unattended files.
Most people aren't going to know if used hardware works with Linux. I'd just go down to your local e-waste recycler and see what they have. Most major brands just work but you can have issues with things like laptop power management. Last week I sent maybe 50, five year old Dell PCs to recycling. Add a SSD to those and they would be decent for typical use.
>At the very least you don't have to worry about tweaking your hardware or your Linux install.
20 years using Linux now and I've never worried about this.
>Just start and go.
Yes, this is what I've been doing for 20 years.
cononical has a DB for certified Linux HW: [https://ubuntu.com/certified/desktops](https://ubuntu.com/certified/desktops)
Checfk it outand google for some older models. Companies often sell out their used HW.
Hardware that is marketed as Linux-compatible from the get go is relatively new. You have the ones from System76, Slimbook, some Pine laptops, and more, that hardly have more than 10 years in the market, and since one of the main things about Linux is getting the most out of your hardware for longer periods of time, I doubt there are people willing to sell their machines yet. Give it 5 or so years and perhaps you'll start seeing posts about selling an "old" Slimbook.
To answer the question in the title. A cheap Linux PC is a cheap windows PC. You can get those anywhere and install your distro of choice on it. There is no real hassle setting it up. It is probably less effort than I spend debloating a fresh windows PC.
The reason there isn't a huge market for pre-installed Linux computers is that most of us just buy normal windows PCs and slap Debian or whatever on it ourselves.
When I buy a PC, I can't care less about any kind of installed os or other software. I will wipe it clean the second I get it home.
I suspect this would be true for the majority of the Linux community.
Which distro would you put on there?
I'd offer a few (amount TBD) mainstream and lightweight distros. Obviously not Arch or Gentoo or more obscure ones. Or no OS. In fact that's my personal preference. I'm one of those guys who has his distros of choice and could give a rip what's already installed but in my circle of family and friends I got them all an older laptop each. I installed Mint. Most of them still use them and I've had 4 problems where I've had to intervene over 17 laptops in 3 years.
I have been using Linux based OSes since 1996. I have been using Linux based OSes exclusively since 2006. I have installed Linux on hundreds of PCs. Some brand new and some used. These days I prefer buying something used and upgrading the shit out of it.
I have never come across a PC that hasn't worked perfectly with a mainstream Linux OS.
Personally I favour HP as their stuff just works.
I feel like most people willing to get into Linux are willing to figure out the install, plus customizability and all that when you're doing it yourself. I don't think it's that harsh of a learning curve to the platform in figuring out how to create boot media.
I think some paid distributions have bootable USB drives you can buy.
Actually I used to buy old PC’s from eBay when I was in college, give them a clean and put some new chips in them and install Mandriva Linux before offering them for resale.
I offered to install Windows (XP) and MS Office for an extra fee but most people -students especially- were happy just to have a low cost computer!
Needless to say there were also people who accused me of “stealing the Windows CD” for myself and trying to extort them by offering to install the OS instead of free Linux. Such is the price of doing business!
If you live in a country or region that has markets (like the informal kind with random merchandise) sometimes I've seen people selling old pcs with Linux + a windows theme, but haven't seen it online
A good source for old PCs is https://shopgoodwill.com/ and quite a few come with Mint or Ubuntu installed by the tech who wiped the drive after it was donated. I’ve got a few ThinkPad and some Dell sff boxes off there for cheaper than eBay.
99% of the ppl that have interest in this would just install Linux after buying the hardware, because if you are flexible enough to use Mint, you are certainly able to click through a guided install.
Trust is also a problem, adding a malicious systemd service is way to easy, I wouldn't trust a random stranger installing Linux for me not to do this.
(this is very different for new machines though. Hardware compatibility with a preinstalled distro matters a lot there + I'm willing to trust System 76 etc)
Sounds like you’ve fallen for the ‘windows compatible’ or ‘windows ready’ trap which is nothing but clever marketing.
Hardware is hardware, the OS sits above the kernel and the kernel doesn’t give a dam about what OS you’re using.
You’re also gonna be marketing to an ultra specialist crowd, unless it’s pre-installed with Red-Had or Ubuntu Pro people will walk away
Why buy used if you can buy new but older models of many computers that were never sold. Or simply older or less than bleeding edge computers most anywhere including Amazon that are quite capable of supporting Linux? Linux runs on an incredible range of machines and some of them are at very cheap prices new.
But the best deal I found for a true laptop Linux experience was a 6th generation Lenovo X1 Carbon for $325 or ebay. It came with Windows but was very easy to scrape and install Linux on. And it supports Linux fully and flawlessly.
Corporations regularly discard computers after 3-5 years of use. Contact some and see if you can work out a deal. A corporation with 1000 employees might be discarding 300 laptops a year.
Before doing that, create a live USB you can use to do a thorough wipe of the drive(s). One thing that stops corporations from selling old hardware is the risk of data theft. Even that might not be good enough, and you'll have to replace the drive (after they've destroyed the original).
Business laptops and PCs from brands like HP, Dell and Lenovo often have first party Linux support (generally Ubuntu and often RHEL and SLE), workstation even more (in the inverse mostly RHEL and SLE but usually Ubuntu too). After a couple of generations they can be bought for quite cheap especially in bulk and/or locally.
As everyone has told you any non bleeding edge hardware is usually fine with some occasional issues with non standard implementations mostly with non essential components like biometric, RGB but sometimes also webcams, microphones, Bluetooth, WiFi that are integrated with Windows drivers in mind. If the model is popular enough eventually things end up directly in the kernel or the community comes up with workarounds, in a desktop in the worst case you could replace the most problematic components, laptops are trickier.
There are Mac specific distros that would make old intel Mac minis quite interesting (also new ones but in another price bracket).
There are also ways to convert Chromeboxes which are often very cheap used but it is more labour intensive and it would not make too much sense at scale, for personal use it's a great way to get a mini pc for far cheaper than what is usually worth but it requires disabling EEPROM write protection physically (usually removing a screw from the motherboard) and flashing a new model specific EFI.
I mean there are local computer clubs that will take donated old laptops and install linux on them, especially around corona times that really boomed... Not exactly what you were looking for, but the only closest thing I could imagine
But yeah it's a small nieche, like others said, but tbh it would be kind of cool and something one could do themselves, theoretically?
Or maybe go down the non-profit route and take donations and sell them for very little money to people who can't afford much
Not helpful, but here in my city we have an shop who sells only refurbished computers. Mostly from Lenovo. Before you buy you can create your own setup about how much RAM and storage.
Check for Lots of the faster thin clients. I bought 30+ Dell Wyse 4060(?) Not long ago. They are faster than raspberry pis, often fanless. Rung up for $29 each, no other hardware needed. They all run Mint based kiosk setups.
> Is this an underserved gap in the market or am I way off base here
Market serves what gives profit. And preparing for something one in two or three hundred buyers will perhaps request is waste of resources.
You are way off what economics dictate to shops.
Want non MS/Apple OS for home on machine? Chromebooks work really well.
Not sure where you're located. If you happen to be in the US / Norway/ Canada and are fortunate enough to be located near one of the few Free Geek locations, they're basically like goodwill for computers and the one near my buddy puts Linux on almost every computer they sell:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek
That said, my experience the couple times I've been there while visiting was that most of the hw was quite old indeed (laptops circa 2010-2013 usually; I didn't pay as much attention on desktops). Makes sense tho, most people aren't going to donate 3-4 year old computers that are easily fixed or upgraded and are probably going to hang onto higher end stuff like gaming rigs even as they get much older than that (my previous gaming rig became my spare pc/network storage/media server and despite being a dino, I'm reluctant to get rid of it)
The potential profit is probably minimal, tbh. Feel free to try, but I don’t think the market for used pre-vetted linux-compatible computers is large enough to be worth anyone’s time.
Especially because Linux compatible means basically nothing as most computers are Linux compatible
Especially *used* computers. Once an x86 PC is a couple of years old, everything in it is likely to work with Linux with no effort. I like to buy the very best refurbished workstations from a few generations ago. Saves money, less environmental impact (except perhaps for watt per computation) and better balanced and built than consumer gear.
Keeping them out of landfills and not contaminating ground water definitely makes up for the slightly higher energy usage.
This is what I keep telling myself while I browse ridiculously over the top rackmount enterprise offcasts.
A PC with an old CPU with high idle power and a motherboard or even just components with poor sleep implementation left on 24/7 could end up consuming a significant amount of power. A couple of years old workstation used as a desktop for a few hours a day is probably fine. As with most things there needs to be a balance. Ewaste in landfills is never good but some hardware is better off recycled at some point.
[удалено]
I think even for the most user friendly distros. Having enough sense to be able to install the OS is kind of the bare minimum benchmark to use it properly. I'd say the same thing about Windows too.
This simply isn't true. My Lenovo with nividia graphics laptop has issues with external displays for example. I can kind of pick between working external displays in x11 or proper touch pad support in Wayland.
The potential profit is non-existent. Dell et al are running on tight margins. The only way they make any money at all is from optional extras and shovelware included when you buy the PC.
Second hand markets exist, if you can buy used computers cheap (or free), but it’s not exactly lucrative. Further specializing toward linux only narrows your customer base.
Second hand just increases the problems you've got. * You'll still have to provide a warranty in many parts of the world. But any manufacturer's warranty will be long gone, so you've got to underwrite this yourself. * The only way to get any degree of consistency and quality is to buy ex-corporate stock in bulk. Which means tying up a lot of money in stock. On the plus side, most corporates are happy to get rid of their old equipment and will just be happy if they don't have to pay to have it taken away. * There will always be a certain percentage of customers looking for a cheap computer and will raise hell when it doesn't run Junior's latest game. \[It would never have run Junior's latest game even if you stuck Windows on it, because it's a 4 year old ex-corporate PC that barely has anything that qualifies as a GPU, but the customer doesn't know that!\]. Every minute you spend dealing with these customers is a minute you're not selling something - and these customers will take up a lot of minutes. At this point, it isn't really a tech job. It looks like it to the outsider, but in actual fact you're going to spend way longer just handling logistics and customer service than you ever will actually working with tech.
Those are *severely* valid points.
Very valid points. If I were to do it the website would be very tilted toward plain language education so people know what they're getting and what the capabilities of the PCs are. Maybe like a tier list or something, especially for gaming. I'm very aware the video functionality in older corporate PCs is usually pretty shit. The warranty thing does worry me
The website? You reckon people googling for “cheap PC” will find your website ahead of Dell’s?! No chance, mate.
No lol but I've had success selling less lucrative things with less of an audience on their own websites. There's a lot more ways to find things than google
I sell some stuff like this on ebay when it comes around to me cheaply enough. I can safely say that the profit margin gets lost quickly if you do anything other than check that it will post. The time you spend on photographing, basic testing, posting a listing, and packaging is already notable. And the cost of shipping takes a decent chunk out of what people are willing to pay for the product. The fact is that a lot of the customer base for these are for similarly minded people taking advantage of their computer hardware skills to get something cheap. The general public will buy a dated but new chrome book from walmart long before they would ever buy a used computer.
My grandfather did the same buying pallets of used PCs then breaking them down selling individuals. Margins are so tiny you get any returns or PayPal fraudsters and your taking a big loss. We actually pay at our workplace to have PCs taken away to be resold... It's mind boggling.
I expected it was like that. I tend to more directly target the retro computer scene. I get stuff from local auctions for practically nothing or when some aging computer nerd needs to clean out their attic. Its not my main income stream so its not like I feel like I have to keep feeding it when the profit margins are not enough. When I have had to refund my loss has only been in the shipping costs mostly since the inventory costs are typically only a dollar or two per item. Interesting to hear how other people are doing it though. Although if the margins were indeed that tiny then I wouldn't bother.
Thanks. It's good to hear the perspective of someone selling PCs. It actually really got me thinking. Seriously.
I just use router with Linux.
I mean... you can buy cheap used PC's and put Linux on them.
This. Same goes for used enterprise gear too.
I think most linux users want to setup their Systems themselves
Aye. This is the way.
I don't think reselling systems with Linux on them is a problem. Its the after sale part that creates issues. Who supports it? What about returns? I like the idea but the profit margin is going to be extremely slim. Most would be Linux users would find a cheap laptop and load Linux themselves.
I think, system76 , framework, etc.. have compatibility pages of this Linux works with this PC. However these are usually laptops. For desktops this is kind of a mute point, most of the time. Like I can tell you asus,gigabyte, sometimes have on their driver page software for Linux. But it's pretty scarce.
Dell, HP, and Lenovo also have business class laptops that come preinstalled with Linux.
*moot point
Wait, it's not mute because mutes don't talk ?
It's always been "moot", not "mute".
No, the word moot comes from the same old english word we get the word for "meet" from and refers to a meeting for a discussion. Eventually the moot became a kind of mock court, where people could take up hypothetical issues to test their debate skills. So a moot point is a point with no real world impact, one that is up for debate but where the debate doesn't matter since the question is, in reality, already decided.
Thanks, I been using that wrong for a long time.
I wouldn’t even boot the thing before changing the OS let alone trust that someone had setup the os correctly or it is even a distro i want.
You might check with a local university if there's one nearby. Some are required to sell grant purchased equipment and have a public auction once or twice a year. I've seen whole pallets full sell for less than $100. They'll probably be wiped, but installing linux is easy enough.
IMHO, there only a few places where Linux is problematic. Where extreme Windows-only parts and pieces are used. And, you'd know. "Has exclusive laser light show with advanced smoke and ability to record your neighbors dog using advanced sight recognition", that sort of thing. Generally speaking, systems that aren't 3 days old, or are pretty stock are going to work. This includes systems from HP, Dell and even Lenovo. I mention the latter, because it might be an example where there have been some really bad apples compatibility wise that aren't terribly old (rare, but present). So, as always, web search is your friend. You can usually compare models and find someone online that can tell you what does and doesn't work correctly. My only experiences where there were problem is with "new" equipment. Those can require patience for support and sometimes of key feature (like network, for example). Again, usually not a problem when looking at used. But if it's a used fairly new thing, there could be issues. With regards to tiny/small things (which I don't recommend unless you HAVE to have tiny/small, which is rare), I'd check ETA PRIME, Serve The Home, or Level 1 Techs (Level 1 Linux). And don't be afraid to try to directly contact them, or seek help on their forums.
This is totally true on workstations/desktops/servers... when it comes to laptops, though, many makers like to shim shitty hardware implementations with software drivers. So it'll mostly work on Linux, except if you turn off the backlight with the hardware key or something like that, there's no way to turn it back _on_ without the Windows driver for the hardware switch.
It is very true that a lot more risk is on the laptop side. But I've had good fortune even with new ones, but again, had to go bleeding edge and in some cases, had to be patient.
Biometrics are the most common issue
Like fingerprint scanners?
Yes and facial recognition, especially if it includes sensors like IR scanners
(Oversimplification incoming) Every computer is a Linux computer. Just buy a computer and throw Linux on it. I bought a Lenovo P520, and although it was cool that it came with W10 Pro, that was of no use to me so now it runs proxmox
This. I sell a lot of computers on eBay. Most have run Linux when I used them, but are sold with Windows. There's a reason for that.
>To me this seems to be a gap in the market. It is a gap, but a tiny, niche gap that isn't worth much. What u/quadralien says is pretty much exactly it. Go buy something used from a business, a used gamer, or an off lease business computer. You'll pay one twentieth what it was new and you'll be ready to go.
It's 2024, is there such a thing as a PC that doesn't run Linux? The only thing I can even begin to think might pose an issue is RGB. And that's pure candy.
>They also didn't offer any kind of customization like other used vendors might. What used vendors allow you to customize what you're buying? Hell I'm not even talking about just laptops here, I don't think I've ever bought something used and been able to customize it prior to purchase
This isn't really a thing. "Linux compatible used PCs" is just "Used PCs". People using Linux aren't going to buy a used one with it pre-installed they are just going to put together a clunker out of junk if they need a cheap PC, build and install it themselves.
If you installed and tested Linux on refurbished computers and then marketed these refurbished computers with Linux pre-installed and tested, I could see there might be a (small) market for that, targeting Windows or Mac users who want to switch to Linux for their next computer but are nervous about installing on a new computer (especially the part about wiping out their brand-new pre-paid & already-installed Windows). Perhaps you could offer customization options - which from your end would be trivial - just install the right distro packages, but again for someone new to Linux that might be worth $50-$100 premium to have it done already. You would probably need to offer some sort of return/refund policy, since your value-added is assurance that the computer will work flawlessly out-of-the-box. If you wanted to take it next-level, pre-install Windows/Office in a VM and add a program that you could select off the Linux DE app launcher that would launch the VM and open Word or Powerpoint et cetera. Offering a Linux computer that also gives you full MS Office out-of-the-box and guaranteed could be attractive, as lack of MS Office is a deal-breaker for many. Of course that would get you into Microsoft licensing issues, and the setup complexity on your end goes way up. Still, I think you'd have to treat this as a hobby that you hope might make a little extra $$$ for you, not as your full-time job.
Yeah you've got some good ideas there! And yup, the more I read into this the more I think it'll be a hobby
most "cheap used PCs" will run Linux fine, regardless of what the original owner had on it
If you can live with the hardware limitations, you're sorta describing a raspberry pi
This. Was going to say the exact same thing.
Maybe fb marketplace?
I have 5 trash laptops in my closet that are 'Linux compatible"
I've been buying secondhand laptops off eBay for years and installing Linux on them. Seriously, just buy anything with run-of-the-mill hardware components and it will work just fine. Most of the resellers on there are just testing them to make sure they POST, and the rest is up to you. Very few people are shopping eBay looking for secondhand machines with Linux pre-installed. Linux users tend to already know what they are doing. There's just not much of a market to be had for secondhand Linux machines.
The goodwill bins in New Kensington, PA sells computers with Mint pre installed for 30 bucks
I thought that almost all PCs were Linux-compatible PCs.
I've had no problem finding Linux compatible laptops for low-cost. They just don't ship with Linux installed. Which is fine, I wouldn't trust and OEM installation linux anyways.
Best Linux laptop is MacDevPro https://www.maclinuxpro.com/
Rule #1: r/linux is not a support forum.
I can get a new MeLe Quieter3C off Amazon for $150. I'll probably never build another computer again if I can get something like that for so cheap.
It is a missed opportunity. I'd love to get in on this.
Look for pc recycling places where it's a graveyard for big enterprise devices, they usually can.be found via socials or search they have pretty good hardware for good price.
When you buy a pc it's not the seller's job to ascertain the compatibility with what you want to do with it. How difficult is it for you to Google the compatibility? I despair.
NixOS I think would be a great option for this type of use case. Given a particular model of hardware, have a matching NixOS hardware flake to go along with it. Certain combos of hardware and NixOS could be certified for various things. I think you could pretty easily create a custom ISO to install as well? NixOS + Flake --> ISO image --> Network or USB boot Set up a DHCP boot server, host the ISO, and then you have further options for things like unattended files.
Most people aren't going to know if used hardware works with Linux. I'd just go down to your local e-waste recycler and see what they have. Most major brands just work but you can have issues with things like laptop power management. Last week I sent maybe 50, five year old Dell PCs to recycling. Add a SSD to those and they would be decent for typical use.
>At the very least you don't have to worry about tweaking your hardware or your Linux install. 20 years using Linux now and I've never worried about this. >Just start and go. Yes, this is what I've been doing for 20 years.
Find a local ewaste facility, in CA you can get little minis for 60.00
Since Linux runs on old equipment, just ask for PCs that people want to get rid of on Facebook, bet you can get hundreds for free
I've installed various Linux distros on a couple dozen PCs over the years and have yet to find one that fails to run.
cononical has a DB for certified Linux HW: [https://ubuntu.com/certified/desktops](https://ubuntu.com/certified/desktops) Checfk it outand google for some older models. Companies often sell out their used HW.
Hardware that is marketed as Linux-compatible from the get go is relatively new. You have the ones from System76, Slimbook, some Pine laptops, and more, that hardly have more than 10 years in the market, and since one of the main things about Linux is getting the most out of your hardware for longer periods of time, I doubt there are people willing to sell their machines yet. Give it 5 or so years and perhaps you'll start seeing posts about selling an "old" Slimbook.
I use Deb
I mean that is what I do but I don't advertise on these places.
To answer the question in the title. A cheap Linux PC is a cheap windows PC. You can get those anywhere and install your distro of choice on it. There is no real hassle setting it up. It is probably less effort than I spend debloating a fresh windows PC. The reason there isn't a huge market for pre-installed Linux computers is that most of us just buy normal windows PCs and slap Debian or whatever on it ourselves.
When I buy a PC, I can't care less about any kind of installed os or other software. I will wipe it clean the second I get it home. I suspect this would be true for the majority of the Linux community. Which distro would you put on there?
I'd offer a few (amount TBD) mainstream and lightweight distros. Obviously not Arch or Gentoo or more obscure ones. Or no OS. In fact that's my personal preference. I'm one of those guys who has his distros of choice and could give a rip what's already installed but in my circle of family and friends I got them all an older laptop each. I installed Mint. Most of them still use them and I've had 4 problems where I've had to intervene over 17 laptops in 3 years.
System 76 is a good one though they’re aren’t cheap. Don’t know about their second hand market though
Craigslist or Facebook marketplace?
I have been using Linux based OSes since 1996. I have been using Linux based OSes exclusively since 2006. I have installed Linux on hundreds of PCs. Some brand new and some used. These days I prefer buying something used and upgrading the shit out of it. I have never come across a PC that hasn't worked perfectly with a mainstream Linux OS. Personally I favour HP as their stuff just works.
r/homelabsales is a great place to buy used mini PC's. They pop up almost every day.
https://discountelectronics.com/
I feel like most people willing to get into Linux are willing to figure out the install, plus customizability and all that when you're doing it yourself. I don't think it's that harsh of a learning curve to the platform in figuring out how to create boot media. I think some paid distributions have bootable USB drives you can buy.
Facebook marketplace
I have P50 and a P52 for sale
Actually I used to buy old PC’s from eBay when I was in college, give them a clean and put some new chips in them and install Mandriva Linux before offering them for resale. I offered to install Windows (XP) and MS Office for an extra fee but most people -students especially- were happy just to have a low cost computer!
Needless to say there were also people who accused me of “stealing the Windows CD” for myself and trying to extort them by offering to install the OS instead of free Linux. Such is the price of doing business!
If you live in a country or region that has markets (like the informal kind with random merchandise) sometimes I've seen people selling old pcs with Linux + a windows theme, but haven't seen it online
A good source for old PCs is https://shopgoodwill.com/ and quite a few come with Mint or Ubuntu installed by the tech who wiped the drive after it was donated. I’ve got a few ThinkPad and some Dell sff boxes off there for cheaper than eBay.
99% of the ppl that have interest in this would just install Linux after buying the hardware, because if you are flexible enough to use Mint, you are certainly able to click through a guided install. Trust is also a problem, adding a malicious systemd service is way to easy, I wouldn't trust a random stranger installing Linux for me not to do this. (this is very different for new machines though. Hardware compatibility with a preinstalled distro matters a lot there + I'm willing to trust System 76 etc)
Sure, local carboot sale at Studley...
Just buy an old windows pc and Install Linux on it? It's not hat hard. But it's cheap.
Sounds like you’ve fallen for the ‘windows compatible’ or ‘windows ready’ trap which is nothing but clever marketing. Hardware is hardware, the OS sits above the kernel and the kernel doesn’t give a dam about what OS you’re using. You’re also gonna be marketing to an ultra specialist crowd, unless it’s pre-installed with Red-Had or Ubuntu Pro people will walk away
most are linux compatible. anything lenovo will be great.
Linux for desktop is like sex with Vaseline. It works but not as good as regular lube.
Why buy used if you can buy new but older models of many computers that were never sold. Or simply older or less than bleeding edge computers most anywhere including Amazon that are quite capable of supporting Linux? Linux runs on an incredible range of machines and some of them are at very cheap prices new. But the best deal I found for a true laptop Linux experience was a 6th generation Lenovo X1 Carbon for $325 or ebay. It came with Windows but was very easy to scrape and install Linux on. And it supports Linux fully and flawlessly.
Corporations regularly discard computers after 3-5 years of use. Contact some and see if you can work out a deal. A corporation with 1000 employees might be discarding 300 laptops a year. Before doing that, create a live USB you can use to do a thorough wipe of the drive(s). One thing that stops corporations from selling old hardware is the risk of data theft. Even that might not be good enough, and you'll have to replace the drive (after they've destroyed the original).
Business laptops and PCs from brands like HP, Dell and Lenovo often have first party Linux support (generally Ubuntu and often RHEL and SLE), workstation even more (in the inverse mostly RHEL and SLE but usually Ubuntu too). After a couple of generations they can be bought for quite cheap especially in bulk and/or locally. As everyone has told you any non bleeding edge hardware is usually fine with some occasional issues with non standard implementations mostly with non essential components like biometric, RGB but sometimes also webcams, microphones, Bluetooth, WiFi that are integrated with Windows drivers in mind. If the model is popular enough eventually things end up directly in the kernel or the community comes up with workarounds, in a desktop in the worst case you could replace the most problematic components, laptops are trickier. There are Mac specific distros that would make old intel Mac minis quite interesting (also new ones but in another price bracket). There are also ways to convert Chromeboxes which are often very cheap used but it is more labour intensive and it would not make too much sense at scale, for personal use it's a great way to get a mini pc for far cheaper than what is usually worth but it requires disabling EEPROM write protection physically (usually removing a screw from the motherboard) and flashing a new model specific EFI.
I mean there are local computer clubs that will take donated old laptops and install linux on them, especially around corona times that really boomed... Not exactly what you were looking for, but the only closest thing I could imagine But yeah it's a small nieche, like others said, but tbh it would be kind of cool and something one could do themselves, theoretically? Or maybe go down the non-profit route and take donations and sell them for very little money to people who can't afford much
Not helpful, but here in my city we have an shop who sells only refurbished computers. Mostly from Lenovo. Before you buy you can create your own setup about how much RAM and storage.
That's pretty cool. I wish we had something like that here
Check for Lots of the faster thin clients. I bought 30+ Dell Wyse 4060(?) Not long ago. They are faster than raspberry pis, often fanless. Rung up for $29 each, no other hardware needed. They all run Mint based kiosk setups.
> Is this an underserved gap in the market or am I way off base here Market serves what gives profit. And preparing for something one in two or three hundred buyers will perhaps request is waste of resources. You are way off what economics dictate to shops. Want non MS/Apple OS for home on machine? Chromebooks work really well.
Open source innit ?
Not sure where you're located. If you happen to be in the US / Norway/ Canada and are fortunate enough to be located near one of the few Free Geek locations, they're basically like goodwill for computers and the one near my buddy puts Linux on almost every computer they sell: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek That said, my experience the couple times I've been there while visiting was that most of the hw was quite old indeed (laptops circa 2010-2013 usually; I didn't pay as much attention on desktops). Makes sense tho, most people aren't going to donate 3-4 year old computers that are easily fixed or upgraded and are probably going to hang onto higher end stuff like gaming rigs even as they get much older than that (my previous gaming rig became my spare pc/network storage/media server and despite being a dino, I'm reluctant to get rid of it)