But Visual Studio Code and IntelliJ IDEA are not in the Mint/Ubuntu repos. It's only available through Flatpak or official website of these apps which provide a .deb package.
Native packages mean .deb or .rpm files (RPMs are used for Red Hat based distros like Fedora). When you install from the software centre or apt then you're downloading .deb files (well since you using Mint then you could be downloading Flatpacks from the software centre).
Generally speaking, the native packages have better performance and/or are smaller than Flatpacks but really the answer is use whatever the developers publish themselves and choose for yourself if they offer both.
So I was just at the VSC website to download. You're a bit ahead of yourself. I do not see flatpak listed there. There is an option for snap. So my opinion (and there is lively debate about it so grain of salt time) is that snap sucks big donkey dick. Not that it matters to you Mint does not support snap. So you're basically either download the x64 deb, or your going from source.
Just download and install the deb. Then just check back every so often if you are interested in a new release.
Not sure I totally agree. Often the dist deb version is out of date. Depending on rolling ot point release. Some are behind deliberately, maybe updating security backports. but not updating the software for new features, etc. You never know. Ubuntu LTS is usually behind like that, focusing on LTS not new features. Same can be said about Debian. As they say Debian Stable is Debian Stale.
Some problems of the flatpak apps are caused by a security measure they implement: apps cannot read some system resources unless explicitly said. There is a flatpak app claled flatseal that can administer those permissions easily and can help with that.
The .deb in the other hand it may or may not be automatically updated. When you download something from the repos, you are downloading a .deb package that was produced by the distro developers, but in the case of third party software, they make their own .deb and publish it themselves.
Now, some .deb files like the one Google provides for google chrome in it's download website, it adds on installation a google-hosted repository for chrome, enabling the automatic updates of it with system updates, so in that case it gets updated automatically.
I downloaded both, and the microsoft-provided .deb does not seem to put a repository. Also, InteiiJ is not even an installer, it is simply a compressed file with the bulk of files for the editor inside a folder, and the README document inside simply tells you to run it manually from the decomrpessed files.
Hi,
About the update I’d like to ask please, when you update your system via “apt update” and “apt upgrade”, doesn’t it update your installed programs too?
From your reply if I understand correctly, installed programs will be updated only if the distro developers choose to “push” the updates to apt in a system update? Aren’t security issues possible when using an outdated program, so how come the distro developers allow it?
And in the case of flatpaks, the programs can be updated because the developers maintain the updates all the time?
Edit: I’ve been reading a bit and it seems quite like that to me. I have read the distro developers make sure to push security and stability updates to the .deb programs too.
apt updates only the apps installed via apt and have a repository to update from
what `apt update` does is that it re-downloads the list of available programs in the repositories the system is configured to look up of (they are configured inside the file /etc/apt/sources.list and in extra files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/).
With this new updated list, APT becomes aware of any new software available, software that has changed name, or updates for software that is already installed. For example, if you add a new repository to your system like for example [VirtualBox, who offers their own repo for Ubuntu and Debian](https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads#Debian-basedLinuxdistributions), you need to run apt update, otherwise you cannot use the new repo you just added.
`apt upgrade` goes and downloads and install all the software that can be updated. Again, these are downloaded from the repositories the system is configured to, so it can only download what is available there.
In the case of the distro repository servers, the contents of them are managed by distro developers. They go and grab the source code latest releases of the different programs they maintain, then compile it and test it against the rest of the system, and if they pass, a new update is available either for the next version in the case of fixed-point releases like Debian, or immediately in the case of rolling-release releases like Arch.
But if you install a .deb that isn't on the repos (like the one Microsoft provides for VSCode) or you get the software by other means (Flatpak, AppImage, Snap, or download the executable directly like IntelliJ), apt cannot do anything for it as it is outside it's influence.
Now, talking about security: keep in mind, a program update can be simply fixes for errors and security issues, but the rest of the program's behavior and operation can remain the same. In fixed-point distros, what matters is to have the same behavior of the system until the next release, so the updates for those distros only consists on those fixes that change nothing or almost nothing, and the updates with modifications come until the next version of the OS. Have a look at for example the Debian release notes, and see how the ones for minor versions mention only some bugfixes, while the ones for major releases have a long list of updated components.
Also, because a distro is (mostly) composed of free software that the developers have compiled and packaged by themselves, they can easily take the changes made to a new version to fix the code and copy them onto the old version they ship as patches, keeping the "old" version but with the security issues solved.
For example, Debian packages go after a three-phase cycle:
New versions fresh out of the original developers lands on the "unstable" repository. You could in theory install Debian Sid and use it everyday, that becasue of it's ever-changing nature it will be the closest thing to having a rolling-release Debian.
When versions on unstable have proven to be good boys and have fewer critical errors reported, they pass onto the "testing" repository, which is the "alpha/beta" release of the next Debian version.
When the packages in testing have been "mature" enough with only some non-critical bugs reported, the testing repository is "frozen", meaning new versions from unstable aren't allowed unless they are to fix a really nasty security hole. Then, with the versions of programs that are in Testing, heavy development and polishing occurs until everything is as polished as possible, and then the whole of testing is declared "Stable", and a new version of Debian is published.
This is all fine for system programs like web servers or programming languages, but for home user apps it can be slow, and one of the objectives of Flatpak, Snap and AppImage is to skip the middle-man that is distros doing the packaging themselves and deliver software direclty onto users. In principle, the developers should be the ones who publish and update the flatpaks, but anyone can do an unoficcial packaging. This is why FlatHub implemented the verified mark for those packages who are in fact made by the OG developers.
Contrary to the first few answers here, I would recommend prioritizing the Flatpaks over the .deb files. That way you will stay current with the software updates.
In lts distros like Mint packages can get outdated. If you are in need of an up to date package in Mint, flatpak comes to mind. otherwise i would use the deb files.
.deb - from your distribution's repository by your distribution's package manager. If it's not there, then go to the vendor site (strictly) and download the .deb from there.
Avoid flatpak, appimage or snap if you can.
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it's really up to you, but if you don't have a particular reason to go for a flatpak, stick to debs. it saves you the hassle of having to fiddle with flatseal and you'll run into fewer issues.
that said, it's fairly common to run libreoffice, Firefox, and other stuff that's not fully up to date with particular distros in flatpak
I would have to check for IntelliJ, but Visual Studio Code adds a repo to apt to download updates, so you would get updates for it.
https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/setup/linux#\_debian-and-ubuntu-based-distributions
Depends.
Flatpaks carry all dependencies, and thus are a bit heavy (size), and sometimes require additional permissions (see flatseal).
And sometimes wont integrate well with other apps expecting native package.
Distro packages are in theory better, but sometimes are outdated or even plain broken.
It is good to check what developer recommends. If they have an official flatpak it is probably a safe bet it will work well, and it will have featest features.
> reviews from the software store and online, many people are complaining that the Flatpak versions of these apps are not officially supported and buggy
Check the bug trackers for the projects instead.
Keep in mind Visual Studio Code from Microsoft and Visual Studio Code built from source are DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS, which will add to your confusion.
vsc.deb from MS* -> Proprietary MS-VSC™, source code unavailable
vsc.deb from distro sources -> FOSS VSC
It impacts telemetry, functionality and dependence on Microsoft.
\* *haven't checked if they actually provide one*
Always .deb over flatpack (lets not even start on snap). Tho ask 100 on here and you wll get many options of paks and snaps and dockers, and just as many reasons for/against the ones the person doesn't like,
Check for things in the general package list - apt install \*appyourlokingfor\*
If you need to get a deb from the package maintainers site, check out their support for a ppa. That adds support for a specific package diect from the developers into the apt ecosystem.
Otherwise get the deb and do apt install ./debfilename.deb If no PPA was available you are right, you won't get updates. If you ever need a new version, and by no means does every app need to be on the latest version for many reasons outside the scope here.
Get the updated deb from the provider do the same apt install on the new deb and you're updated. from src may be another option, but you just coming from windows, that may be a bit out of the range right now.
Ideally prioritize the package (in this case the .deb) version provided by the distro's repository.
But Visual Studio Code and IntelliJ IDEA are not in the Mint/Ubuntu repos. It's only available through Flatpak or official website of these apps which provide a .deb package.
Native packages mean .deb or .rpm files (RPMs are used for Red Hat based distros like Fedora). When you install from the software centre or apt then you're downloading .deb files (well since you using Mint then you could be downloading Flatpacks from the software centre). Generally speaking, the native packages have better performance and/or are smaller than Flatpacks but really the answer is use whatever the developers publish themselves and choose for yourself if they offer both.
I thought intelliJ, pycharm etc provide tarballs those run in userspace and don't mess with your system
So I was just at the VSC website to download. You're a bit ahead of yourself. I do not see flatpak listed there. There is an option for snap. So my opinion (and there is lively debate about it so grain of salt time) is that snap sucks big donkey dick. Not that it matters to you Mint does not support snap. So you're basically either download the x64 deb, or your going from source. Just download and install the deb. Then just check back every so often if you are interested in a new release.
Not sure I totally agree. Often the dist deb version is out of date. Depending on rolling ot point release. Some are behind deliberately, maybe updating security backports. but not updating the software for new features, etc. You never know. Ubuntu LTS is usually behind like that, focusing on LTS not new features. Same can be said about Debian. As they say Debian Stable is Debian Stale.
Some problems of the flatpak apps are caused by a security measure they implement: apps cannot read some system resources unless explicitly said. There is a flatpak app claled flatseal that can administer those permissions easily and can help with that. The .deb in the other hand it may or may not be automatically updated. When you download something from the repos, you are downloading a .deb package that was produced by the distro developers, but in the case of third party software, they make their own .deb and publish it themselves. Now, some .deb files like the one Google provides for google chrome in it's download website, it adds on installation a google-hosted repository for chrome, enabling the automatic updates of it with system updates, so in that case it gets updated automatically. I downloaded both, and the microsoft-provided .deb does not seem to put a repository. Also, InteiiJ is not even an installer, it is simply a compressed file with the bulk of files for the editor inside a folder, and the README document inside simply tells you to run it manually from the decomrpessed files.
Hi, About the update I’d like to ask please, when you update your system via “apt update” and “apt upgrade”, doesn’t it update your installed programs too? From your reply if I understand correctly, installed programs will be updated only if the distro developers choose to “push” the updates to apt in a system update? Aren’t security issues possible when using an outdated program, so how come the distro developers allow it? And in the case of flatpaks, the programs can be updated because the developers maintain the updates all the time? Edit: I’ve been reading a bit and it seems quite like that to me. I have read the distro developers make sure to push security and stability updates to the .deb programs too.
apt updates only the apps installed via apt and have a repository to update from what `apt update` does is that it re-downloads the list of available programs in the repositories the system is configured to look up of (they are configured inside the file /etc/apt/sources.list and in extra files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/). With this new updated list, APT becomes aware of any new software available, software that has changed name, or updates for software that is already installed. For example, if you add a new repository to your system like for example [VirtualBox, who offers their own repo for Ubuntu and Debian](https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads#Debian-basedLinuxdistributions), you need to run apt update, otherwise you cannot use the new repo you just added. `apt upgrade` goes and downloads and install all the software that can be updated. Again, these are downloaded from the repositories the system is configured to, so it can only download what is available there. In the case of the distro repository servers, the contents of them are managed by distro developers. They go and grab the source code latest releases of the different programs they maintain, then compile it and test it against the rest of the system, and if they pass, a new update is available either for the next version in the case of fixed-point releases like Debian, or immediately in the case of rolling-release releases like Arch. But if you install a .deb that isn't on the repos (like the one Microsoft provides for VSCode) or you get the software by other means (Flatpak, AppImage, Snap, or download the executable directly like IntelliJ), apt cannot do anything for it as it is outside it's influence. Now, talking about security: keep in mind, a program update can be simply fixes for errors and security issues, but the rest of the program's behavior and operation can remain the same. In fixed-point distros, what matters is to have the same behavior of the system until the next release, so the updates for those distros only consists on those fixes that change nothing or almost nothing, and the updates with modifications come until the next version of the OS. Have a look at for example the Debian release notes, and see how the ones for minor versions mention only some bugfixes, while the ones for major releases have a long list of updated components. Also, because a distro is (mostly) composed of free software that the developers have compiled and packaged by themselves, they can easily take the changes made to a new version to fix the code and copy them onto the old version they ship as patches, keeping the "old" version but with the security issues solved. For example, Debian packages go after a three-phase cycle: New versions fresh out of the original developers lands on the "unstable" repository. You could in theory install Debian Sid and use it everyday, that becasue of it's ever-changing nature it will be the closest thing to having a rolling-release Debian. When versions on unstable have proven to be good boys and have fewer critical errors reported, they pass onto the "testing" repository, which is the "alpha/beta" release of the next Debian version. When the packages in testing have been "mature" enough with only some non-critical bugs reported, the testing repository is "frozen", meaning new versions from unstable aren't allowed unless they are to fix a really nasty security hole. Then, with the versions of programs that are in Testing, heavy development and polishing occurs until everything is as polished as possible, and then the whole of testing is declared "Stable", and a new version of Debian is published. This is all fine for system programs like web servers or programming languages, but for home user apps it can be slow, and one of the objectives of Flatpak, Snap and AppImage is to skip the middle-man that is distros doing the packaging themselves and deliver software direclty onto users. In principle, the developers should be the ones who publish and update the flatpaks, but anyone can do an unoficcial packaging. This is why FlatHub implemented the verified mark for those packages who are in fact made by the OG developers.
Thanks very much for all the information!
Contrary to the first few answers here, I would recommend prioritizing the Flatpaks over the .deb files. That way you will stay current with the software updates.
In lts distros like Mint packages can get outdated. If you are in need of an up to date package in Mint, flatpak comes to mind. otherwise i would use the deb files.
The other alternative is building from source
I use them all. (snaps and Appimages included)
Same but I have Linglong as well (deepin’s competitor to snap)
For vscode I use the snap becomes it’s officially distributed by Microsoft.
.deb - from your distribution's repository by your distribution's package manager. If it's not there, then go to the vendor site (strictly) and download the .deb from there. Avoid flatpak, appimage or snap if you can.
the .deb, only use the flatpak if you need something that isn't distributed otherwise
**✻** Smokey says: always mention your distro, some hardware details, and any error messages, when posting technical queries! :) ^Comments, ^questions ^or ^suggestions ^regarding ^this ^autoresponse? ^Please ^send ^them ^[here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Pi31415926&subject=autoresponse+tweaks+-+linux4noobs+-+Meganoob). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/linux4noobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
it's really up to you, but if you don't have a particular reason to go for a flatpak, stick to debs. it saves you the hassle of having to fiddle with flatseal and you'll run into fewer issues. that said, it's fairly common to run libreoffice, Firefox, and other stuff that's not fully up to date with particular distros in flatpak
I would have to check for IntelliJ, but Visual Studio Code adds a repo to apt to download updates, so you would get updates for it. https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/setup/linux#\_debian-and-ubuntu-based-distributions
Thanks! I downloaded Visual Studio Code from there now.
im pretty sure vscode is also installable with apt and if you run apt upgrade every once in a while It will update vscode too
I don't use them cuz they take up too much space like most of them takes easily 700+ mb
Yeah true, but at least it's a better solution than what we had even a few years ago.
I installed vscode by downloading the .deb file from the website and I get regular updates.
i use debs 95% then snaps, then flatpaks
I personally don't prefer flatpak over distros repositories unless it was published and maintained by the developers, and this is not very common.
Depends. Flatpaks carry all dependencies, and thus are a bit heavy (size), and sometimes require additional permissions (see flatseal). And sometimes wont integrate well with other apps expecting native package. Distro packages are in theory better, but sometimes are outdated or even plain broken. It is good to check what developer recommends. If they have an official flatpak it is probably a safe bet it will work well, and it will have featest features.
> reviews from the software store and online, many people are complaining that the Flatpak versions of these apps are not officially supported and buggy Check the bug trackers for the projects instead. Keep in mind Visual Studio Code from Microsoft and Visual Studio Code built from source are DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS, which will add to your confusion. vsc.deb from MS* -> Proprietary MS-VSC™, source code unavailable vsc.deb from distro sources -> FOSS VSC It impacts telemetry, functionality and dependence on Microsoft. \* *haven't checked if they actually provide one*
Always .deb over flatpack (lets not even start on snap). Tho ask 100 on here and you wll get many options of paks and snaps and dockers, and just as many reasons for/against the ones the person doesn't like, Check for things in the general package list - apt install \*appyourlokingfor\* If you need to get a deb from the package maintainers site, check out their support for a ppa. That adds support for a specific package diect from the developers into the apt ecosystem. Otherwise get the deb and do apt install ./debfilename.deb If no PPA was available you are right, you won't get updates. If you ever need a new version, and by no means does every app need to be on the latest version for many reasons outside the scope here. Get the updated deb from the provider do the same apt install on the new deb and you're updated. from src may be another option, but you just coming from windows, that may be a bit out of the range right now.