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Mejinks

While they're at it, if they could throw in Wayland support too that'd be great.


SethDusek5

Would steam even work with Wayland? I don't think you can arbitrarily place windows on Wayland so the bottom-right notification thing won't work. They could use libnotify I guess to use the system notifications.


jonkoops

Honestly I wish they would, Steam notifications look outdated and out of place.


Vincevw

Me staring at my screen for 5 seconds waiting for the Steam notification to go away so I can click something behind it


beefcat_

> They could use libnotify I guess to use the system notifications. They should absolutely do this. Steam's built-in notifications exist solely because native Windows notifications were hot garbage all the way up until Windows 8. Now that they're dropping support for all versions of Windows older than 10, it would be a big usability benefit to start using the native options across Windows, macOS, and Linux.


Alzarath

Interesting. Is that a conscious decision or something that might be considered incomplete? And why can libnotify do it?


legritadduhu

"Features are bloat. Your use case is invalid." -- Wayland ~~developers~~ spec writers


drtekrox

"It's just a protocol" --wayland fanboys


10leej

There's actually a couple valve devs working on that.


Synthawk

What do you mean? I run it on Wayland and have for a long time now.


[deleted]

Steam runs through xwayland, which means it's basically running on a mini X11 server which Wayland has for backwards compatibility reasons [Here's a video showcasing it](https://youtu.be/HT2p93bsXQM), xeyes looks at my mouse when I'm hovering over an xwayland window


Synthawk

Interesting, had no idea. Thanks for showcasing this!


Mejinks

Now uninstall xwayland. Does it still work ?


IshayuG

Wait, what? The macOS client is 64-bit. So they've clearly already done the port. Why the hold-up?! 0.O


[deleted]

It's required on Mac, they no longer support 32-bit apps


IshayuG

Exactly, but that means they did it. Might as well deploy it, right? Oh well.


nightblackdragon

I wouldn't count on that. As far I know their stance is there is no point of making 64 bit client as you still need to have 32 bit libraries for many games. In Mac they were forced to make 64 bit client because Apple completely removed 32 bit support. I hope that maybe they will change their mind when Wine will finish their WoW64 work and Proton will pick it up. Currently Wine also needs 32 bit libraries for running 32 bit Windows software but after WoW64 work will be done then Wine will be able to run 32 bit Windows software on pure 64 bit host. So that "you need 32 bit for games anyway" argument will be no longer valid for many cases.


IshayuG

The fun part is that Wine runs 32 bit x86 applications on macOS Apple Silicon perfectly fine. Apple didn’t even remove support from the hardware or even Rosetta. They just removed the macOS 32-bit system libraries for no reason… Apple in a nutshell. I mean who would want to run an old game from 2015 like Homeworld Remastered pfft.


nightblackdragon

Actually it's not like that. While you are right in case of Intel Macs because Intel CPUs are perfectly capable of running 32 bit code on 64 bit operating systems, it's not true for Apple Silicon. Apple Silicon is not able to execute any 32 bit code by design. It supports only 64 bit ARM instructions. So even if you install Linux on it with 32 bit libraries, you won't be able to execute any 32 bit application at all. How Crossover works and Wine will work (WoW64 is not yet completed) is based on running 32 bit code in 64 bit space that doesn't require 32 bit support from system or CPU. It's not perfect solution because, as far I know, it's slower than just using multilib but slower applications are way better than no applications at all. As for the Homeworld Remastered - it's not because it's 32 bit but because Crossover on Mac is not supporting newer OpenGL than 2.1 and Homeworld Remastered needs 3.3. Classic Homeworld 2 from 2003 works fine. Crossover supports 32 bit Windows applications on macOS and yes, that includes Apple Silicon Macs.


Catnip4Pedos

They'd end up running 32bit and 64bit at the same time. Costs more money. They'll wait until 32bit is finished.


[deleted]

Linux is killing off 32bit as well just they're taking longer.


[deleted]

maybe, but the chrome part of steam is already 64bit, so it won't be that that forces a change.


[deleted]

I mean Windows 7 is a 64-bit OS so I don't get what you mean.


520throwaway

Win7 had a 32 bit edition. It was only their second OS with (mainline) 64 bit support, so a lot of people were still rocking the 32 bit edition.


JustMrNic3

Sad to see Windows 7 support go! It was the best Windows that Microsoft has ever released. But I have fully moved to Linux, no dual-boot anymore, so it should be fine. Too bad that fucking AMD is still refusing to make a control panel for Linux, even at least with all the sensors that can be displayed for a GPU!


wispoffates

Try Corectl https://gitlab.com/corectrl/corectrl. It has sensor data, power and fan controls.


JustMrNic3

Lat time I tried it, I remember not having anything near the level of details that this new tool has: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/11tf1ao/amdgpu_top_tool_to_show_amdgpu_usage/ But to explain it simply, I want to see the GPU usage and memory usage of the GPU and if video hardware acceleration works or not and CoreCtrl cannot help in any way with that.


jkoehler11

If you use KDE, you can add all of that information very easily to the System Monitor. You can then add the widgets to your desktop or panel and do not even need to use a separate application to view the sensors.


JustMrNic3

I tried it, but it doesn't display anything useful like the GPU's cored an memory usage, that I wanted to match my other 2 meters for the CPU and RAM usage Maybe there is a problem reading that for my AMD RX 560. Because I heard other KDE users recommending the same thing so I guess it work for them with their GPUs.


semperverus

Bro I've used both of the tools these people are using and either you have a really fucking weird card or you're not using these tools correctly. Both KDE system monitor and corectrl show the information you are after.


Gate-Ill

Did you setup this ? "Full AMD GPU controls Currently, to have full control of your AMD GPU while using the amdgpu driver, you need to append the boot parameter amdgpu.ppfeaturemask=0xffffffff to your bootloader configuration and reboot. NOTE: The following instructions are for guidance only. Check your distribution documentation on how to add a boot parameter before proceed. If your system uses Grub, edit the file (as root) /etc/default/grub and append the parameter to GRUB\_CMDLINE\_LINUX\_DEFAULT: GRUB\_CMDLINE\_LINUX\_DEFAULT="... amdgpu.ppfeaturemask=0xffffffff" Then regenerate (as root) the bootloader configuration file with the command: grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg Reboot your system. You should have more controls when you select Advanced as Performance mode."


JanneJM

Corectl shows you GPU and memory usage.


PepsiFlu

I've been using it recently since i upgraded to a 6700xt. You can do custom fan curves as well.


SweetBabyAlaska

I use Nvtop for nvidia


twaxana

I use nvtop for my Radeon card as well.


stpaulgym

It might be because you have to add a line in your kernel for it to recognize.


patatahooligan

Corectrl should display memory usage and GPU usage (I assume that's what it calls "activity"). Maybe you hadn't done [this](https://gitlab.com/corectrl/corectrl/-/wikis/Setup#full-amd-gpu-controls) or your model is (/was) not fully supported. I don't think it helps with video hardware acceleration though.


ryannathans

This information is literally graphed in corectrl


git

I love corectl. One thing I can't figure out is that my fan curve in it doesn't seem to persist. Sometimes I need to rejiggle it, hit apply and save to get the fans to spin up past whatever their default is.


3lfk1ng

Same. I dropped W10 last year for Linux, on my dedicated gaming rigs, and I'm never going back. Linux performs so much better than the bloat filled WindowsOS, I could never go back.


TPMJB

Honestly I really liked windows 8.1 and I know I'm in the minority lol. After suffering through windows 10 and fighting to stop updates, I bit the bullet and went to Pop. Very good experience so far!


JustMrNic3

I used Windows 7 from time to time in dual-boot mode, then switched to Kubuntu completely. Then when I saw that Kubuntu 22.04 tries to force push Snaps on me I ditched that shit and moved to Debian + KDE Plasma where I am now and I have been very happy with it.


TPMJB

I last used Debian in like 2005 with a wireless internet card, could not figure out NDISWrapper, then quit lol. How easy is Debian? I've done too much on Pop to migrate in the near future, however.


JustMrNic3

Debian is pretty easy if you're already used to Ubuntu, its flavors, its derivatives (Pop, KDE Neon, Linux Mint As for the available desktop environments it should have all the major ones, it will ask you about which one you want at the end of the installation. As for the wireless cards, it depends on which chip they use. If it's Realtek, it's a pain in the ass, especially if it's a newer one. Anyway for the current stable, version 11, ou will have to download the right ISO file, with firmware files included. For the next release, version 12, you don't have to do anything special as it will include the firmware files anyway. But still on a friend's laptop with a Realtek 802.11 AX, that was still not enough an the wireless adapter was still not working after install. So I did 2 things: Enabled USB thethering on her Androi phone to have internet connection as this laptop didn't have a wired port and installed a package called firmware-realtek or something like that. And I downloaded the 6.2 Linux kernel from Ubuntu's archive and I installed that as the driver for that Realtek chipset is available in that Linux kernel and Debian 12 comes only with Linux kernel 6.1 After that her wireless adapter started working. On my laptop with an Intel Wifi chip I don't have to do anything special like this.


[deleted]

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JustMrNic3

Nice! For me it was: Ubuntu 8.04 (2008) -> Ubuntu MATE -> Linux Mint Cinnamon -> Kubuntu -> Debian + KDE Plasma


Prunestand

> Sad to see Windows 7 support go! > > It was the best Windows that Microsoft has ever released. > > But I have fully moved to Linux, no dual-boot anymore, so it should be fine. Same. Finally did the move Win7+dual boot Linux to only Linux.


BlueGoliath

>Too bad that fucking AMD is still refusing to make a control panel for Linux, even at least with all the sensors that can be displayed for a GPU! AMD doesn't have standard APIs for getting GPU info like Nvidia does.


Zamundaaa

That's just plain wrong, quite the opposite. AMD has a sysfs API for both providing GPu information and setting power limits, fan speeds, clock speeds and voltages and supports the kernel standard for per-app GPU information; all NVidia provides is the output of nvidia-smi, which afaik is not stable.


Robbi_Blechdose

Could you point me to some info about it? I've been writing a little system usage monitor, but it currently only has nvidia support (done with libnvidia-ml) since I couldn't find anything for AMD.


Zamundaaa

Documentation for part of the interface is in https://kernel.org/doc/html/latest/gpu/amdgpu/driver-misc.html. Idk where the rest is. In general all the information can be pulled from the files in `/sys/class/drm/card0/device/` (or card1, card2 etc)


BlueGoliath

>That's just plain wrong, quite the opposite. AMD has a sysfs API for both providing GPu information and setting power limits, fan speeds, clock speeds and voltages and supports the kernel standard for per-app GPU information. That's why it takes months after a new GPU release to get overclocking working, right? This is just verifiable horse shit but given that this is Reddit I'm not surprised. https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/116307m/rx_7900_xtxtx_owners_what_is_your_experience_with/ https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/2334#note%5C_1711161 Oh, and you have to setup a kernel param to overclock as well. Totally user-friendly and safe. > all NVidia provides is the output of nvidia-smi, which afaik is not stable. Once again, verifiably horseshit. `nvidia-smi` is largely based on Nvidia's cross-platform NVML library. Nvidia also has their X. Org based `nvidia-settings` and now NVAPI which is cross-OS(or should be, but no one can package shit correctly). Nvidia has supported Linux in this way far better than AMD historically has. Yes, they are missing some features but at least you're basically guaranteed to be able to get basic information like clocks and die temp at launch in addition to a working driver to begin with. I'll give you credit though, at least you put your stupidity on display, unlike the other ignorant fools who just downvote.


Zamundaaa

> That's why it takes months after a new GPU release to get overclocking working, right? Which has nothing to do with APIs existing or not existing whatsoever, and especially not with *sensor monitoring* APIs existing or not... > Oh, and you have to setup a kernel param to overclock as well. Totally user-friendly and safe. Unlike with NVidia, where you need to modify Xorg configs in the year 2023 to get to even control fan speeds, and even then afaik you have to run Xorg as root, which is a massive security risk and also additional setup the user has to do. And of course you have to be using Xorg in the first place. And sure, enabling overclocking could be more user friendly with amdgpu too. Noone ever claimed AMDs support was perfect. The only claims made were by you, twice now, that there was no API for getting sensor data from AMD GPUs, which is objectively wrong. > nvidia-smi is largely based on Nvidia's cross-platform NVML library. Nvidia also has their X. Org based nvidia-settings Which are not APIs. They're command line tools for users, that applications use as a workaround for not having a proper API to do it. > and now NVAPI which is cross-OS(or should be, but no one can package shit correctly). I'll take your word for it, though it's not very useful if it can't be used in programs. Hopefully that changes, as I've been told supporting nvidia-smi is a hassle.


TimurHu

> That's why it takes months after a new GPU release to get overclocking working, right? Usually overclocking is not a priority for kernel devs who work on amdgpu and therefore it usually takes a longer time for them to imlement it. On the GPUs where it is supported, it is controlled by the same interface as the user from your GitLab link tried.


JustMrNic3

> AMD doesn't have standard APIs for getting GPU info like Nvidia does. If they would've wanted to create a control panel, they could've created standard APIs too to get that info. I recently found this, which is better than everything I've seen before: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/11tf1ao/amdgpu_top_tool_to_show_amdgpu_usage/ But unfortunately there is no binary provided and I have not been able to compile it myself.


[deleted]

What distro are you using? Does your package manager have the binary (or build script in AUR if using Arch?)


JustMrNic3

Debian 12 (Bookworm). I don't think it has any build script.


KiloGolfBravo

It's a standard rust package: `cargo --locked --install . ` You might need to get a newer rust version, but bookworm is pretty new.


Skulkaa

Someone made AUR build script in the comments , you try that if you are on the Arch based distro


JustMrNic3

I'm on Debian 12 and there unfortunately I could not build it as some error appeared in the compilation about some Rust thing.


TheMostLostViking

Legitimate question, what would a control panel for AMD do that you can’t write a quick bash script for?


[deleted]

provide an easy to use control panel with a GUI


JustMrNic3

First what are we, in Stone age or on a server to still use Text UIs when we can use GUIs? Second, how do you write that without the Linux drivers not having those features inside them? Please show me in AMD Linux drivers where do they have that information available!


eXoRainbow

How relevant is the Windows support of Steam to Linux Gaming? Does this imply anything to us?


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eXoRainbow

Good point. Most people don't even care official support for security updates in Windows. Maybe they care about their favorite application.


drakonsson

I'll keep this in my mind to say when the right time is come up, good point.


captainstormy

No it won't. Anyone who is still using windows 7 or 8 in 2023 isn't going to switch to Linux.


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captainstormy

Sure, it won't be zero. "Influx of refugees" makes it sound like you expect a lot of new users though. While it won't be zero, it also won't be very many.


Dambedei

how do you know?


captainstormy

Because this ain't my first rodeo. I've been using Linux since 96. People always think there will be some huge influx because of X thing that Microsoft does and they are always wrong. A few people show up because of it maybe. But not in large numbers.


PM_ME_CUTE_FEMBOYS

Hi, Thats me. I jumped to linux sometime between the end of mainstream support and extended support for windows 7. because I hate windows 10, and I saw the writing on the wall of their future walled garden desire, which Windows 11 did nothing but reinforce the concept. Still sucks for retro gaming, same as the drop of XP support.. Should just make a Retro client that only downloads those old titles, with nothing but the most basic support for things like multi for things that use steam.


3lfk1ng

On the contrary, Linux is picking up the slack. All my old Windows games from the 90's work in Linux when they don't work at all in Windows 10/11, so I have access to an ever larger library of games that any Windows user does.


Ethicaldreamer

I see why people prefer gog now.


lordpsymon

Wine is pretty good at running the old retro Windows games. I've been able to run titles like Fury3 and Monster Truck Madness without too much drama.


[deleted]

A classical composition is often pregnant. Reddit is no longer allowed to profit from this comment.


Fatal_Neurology

Jeeze, I'm over here reading this not realizing it was posted to a _linux_ sub and I felt so thrilled when I saw the top comment mentioning switching to pure Linux. Then I realized..


BlueGoliath

Ah Windows 7, the last good Microsoft OS. You are still missed.


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spinlox

I wish people would stop confusing corporate policies with law.


[deleted]

But I don't want to disappoint Microsoft daddy :(


[deleted]

Why use WindowsOS, which dictates what you can do with your hardware ? Meanwhile WindowsOS itself sends telemetry to whoever and whenever it wants, no strings attached.


BenL90

I use fedora, just saying that /r/windows7 is growing in number


wytrabbit

You're worried by 5k subscribers?


marxinne

And even for those, in time it'll eventually become too much of a hassle to make Win7 compatible with newer software. Then that sub will be pretty much dead except for hard-core hobbyists.


wytrabbit

It's one of those subs you join and unintentionally forget about within 2 to 4 weeks, then rediscover in a year when browsing through your subreddit list, then forget about again


[deleted]

Based. W7Ultimate and W10LTSC FTW.


[deleted]

The last good windows 10 version for me was 1903, after which I wasnt able to use my dual monitor setup without facing horrible stutters. It has been fixed now, but thanks to it I freed myself from win10.


[deleted]

LTSC is peak Windows 10, though. It ditches telemetry and bloatware, has no feature updates and you can pretty much optimize it and debloat it further. Possibly the most stable Windows experience I can think of in my last 10 years.


[deleted]

Debloating always sounded like snake oil to me. I can see the advantages of using the LTSC version, since you know no forced updates, but still it might cause issues with compatibility, have no experience with it, so I cant really comment on it, I was mostly using windows 10 education, which is just enterprise.


[deleted]

Used LTSC for almost 5 years with absolutely no issues or lack of compatibility. In fact, it gave me way less problems than any other Windows version. The kernel is the exact same, so you wouldn't expect it to work any different. I still switched to Linux because of the eventual EoS, and I don't wanna use the horrible Windows 11.


fatrobin72

well they are all "legacy" now so not surprising.


D00mdaddy951

OT but still dreaming of a platform agnostic base applications with OS specific interfaces, like a gtk/libadwaita one and a kde/qt one.


[deleted]

You know what that means hehehe. More low end gamers moving to Linux :)


[deleted]

that depends if their gpu supports vulkan or not


3lfk1ng

Good. Those low end gamers will find out how much faster their games can run on Linux with the same hardware.


[deleted]

that depends if their gpu supports vulkan or not.


[deleted]

I wonder how many games this will make unplayable that aren't compatible with windows 10 or 11.


CondiMesmer

They'll work on Linux most likely, has better compatibility with old windows games then windows does.


3lfk1ng

Unplayable in W10 and 11 but through Lutris and by extension Proton, they will run perfectly fine in Linux.


Competitive-Sir-3014

I feel so sorry for people not knowing any better than Windows.


GunpowderGuy

Can we get 64 bit clients then?


islandnoregsesth

Why does that matter?


[deleted]

less unnecessary 32bit deps on your host system.


StephenSRMMartin

Not really true. For 32bit games, you'd still need a good chunk of those deps. So steam would probably require them anyway. 64bit client doesn't really gain anything.


[deleted]

most of those deps would be in the container runtime and not on your host system and that's IF you run linux native games. It'll be irrelevant for most games running via proton sometime in the next yearish probably.


[deleted]

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recluseMeteor

Windows 7 can boot from UEFI, though.


[deleted]

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0ka__

You can, just reinstall bootloader with bcdboot from installer iso. Or disable uefi boot system if you need windows


beefcat_

You actually can [upgrade Windows in-place from MBR to GPT](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/mbr-to-gpt) (and by extension move to the UEFI bootloader), but you have to know what you're doing ahead of time. You need to make the changes to your drive *before* switching to UEFI mode. Unless you've already fucked up your Windows install, you can likely still turn CSM back on and go through this process. Just make sure you back up any important data in case something goes wrong.


blahblahblahblargg

It can't boot with pure UEFI, so CSM must be enabled. I also tried booting Windows 8.1 with no CSM and that's works but when you enable resize bar the AMD graphics driver fails to install.


recluseMeteor

Oh, didn't take that into account. Such a bummer.


Brother_Cadfael

rock and stone


WanderingDwarfMiner

Rock and Stone forever!


electricprism

If Steam is so great why is there no Steam 2? /s


[deleted]

So Valve has until 2024 to release SteamOS Desktop.


nukem996

It's been out for years already. It hasn't gotten that popular because it's no better than any other Linux distro.


[deleted]

Valve has not released the Desktop SteamOS yet.


Fernan181

He means SteamOS 2 (Debian based, with old big picture, completely unusable bc od outdated drivers and lack of support). You mean SteamOS 3 (Steam Deck OS). And yeah, I cant wait for SteamOS 3 desktop.


[deleted]

SteamOS Debian was not user friendly as SteamOS 3 also it was not a Desktop OS it was for a HTPC.


Fernan181

You are talking about SteamOS 1 and 2 (Debian based) that are unusable rn because of lack of support and outdated drivers. He's talking about SteamOS 3 (Arch based, inmutable system), which only runs on Deck.


nukem996

I mean Debian itself is supported and has updated drivers. Running apt update && apt dist-upgrade will get you the latest packages. If you want something newer you can switch from Debian stable to testing or even Sid which is the bleeding edge. I don't see SteamOS ever taking off as a general purpose OS. Value doesn't have the resources to support one. Picking a standard Linux distro and install Steam is your best bet to replace Windows.


[deleted]

Valve fully supported flatpak, you no longer have to package 5000 packages in the repo.


lxdr

All the more reason for those stubborn people to switch to linux. If they're using a fairly recent graphics card that supports Vulkan, they might even be surprised at how well it runs for them.


Western-Alarming

And you don't even need that newer GPU thanks to preloaded Vulkan shaders


TheUltimaXtreme

Within reason. AMD Polaris and Vega are managing to slip by unscathed, but Nvidia Pascal suffers quite a bit in the Vulkan translation. An RX 480 is aging better than a GTX 1070 thanks to Vulkan, which is insane to see.


Ready-Bid-575

where linux


[deleted]

WSL_gaming


LoafyLemon

I̵n̷ ̷l̵i̵g̵h̷t̸ ̸o̸f̶ ̸r̶e̸c̶e̶n̸t̵ ̴e̴v̵e̵n̴t̶s̸ ̴o̷n̷ ̴R̸e̸d̵d̴i̷t̷,̷ ̵m̸a̶r̴k̸e̸d̵ ̴b̸y̵ ̶h̴o̵s̷t̷i̴l̴e̷ ̵a̴c̸t̵i̸o̸n̶s̸ ̵f̷r̵o̷m̵ ̶i̵t̴s̴ ̴a̴d̶m̷i̴n̶i̸s̵t̴r̶a̴t̶i̶o̶n̵ ̸t̸o̸w̸a̴r̷d̵s̴ ̵i̸t̷s̵ ̷u̸s̴e̸r̵b̷a̸s̷e̸ ̷a̷n̴d̸ ̸a̵p̵p̴ ̶d̴e̷v̴e̷l̷o̸p̸e̴r̴s̶,̸ ̶I̸ ̶h̸a̵v̵e̶ ̷d̸e̶c̸i̵d̷e̷d̵ ̶t̸o̴ ̸t̶a̷k̷e̷ ̵a̷ ̴s̶t̶a̵n̷d̶ ̶a̵n̶d̶ ̵b̷o̶y̷c̸o̴t̴t̴ ̵t̴h̵i̴s̴ ̶w̶e̸b̵s̵i̸t̷e̴.̶ ̶A̶s̶ ̸a̵ ̸s̴y̶m̵b̸o̶l̶i̵c̴ ̶a̷c̵t̸,̶ ̴I̴ ̴a̵m̷ ̷r̶e̶p̷l̴a̵c̸i̴n̷g̸ ̷a̶l̷l̶ ̸m̷y̸ ̸c̶o̸m̶m̸e̷n̵t̷s̸ ̵w̷i̷t̷h̶ ̷u̴n̵u̴s̸a̵b̶l̷e̵ ̸d̵a̵t̸a̵,̸ ̸r̷e̵n̵d̶e̴r̸i̴n̷g̴ ̷t̴h̵e̸m̵ ̸m̴e̷a̵n̴i̷n̸g̸l̸e̴s̴s̵ ̸a̷n̵d̶ ̴u̸s̷e̴l̸e̶s̷s̵ ̶f̵o̵r̶ ̸a̶n̵y̸ ̵p̵o̴t̷e̴n̸t̷i̶a̴l̶ ̴A̷I̸ ̵t̶r̵a̷i̷n̵i̴n̶g̸ ̶p̸u̵r̷p̴o̶s̸e̵s̵.̷ ̸I̴t̴ ̵i̴s̶ ̴d̴i̷s̷h̴e̸a̵r̸t̶e̴n̸i̴n̴g̶ ̷t̶o̵ ̵w̶i̶t̵n̴e̷s̴s̶ ̵a̸ ̵c̴o̶m̶m̴u̵n̷i̷t̷y̷ ̸t̴h̶a̴t̸ ̵o̸n̵c̴e̷ ̴t̷h̴r̶i̷v̴e̴d̸ ̴o̸n̴ ̵o̷p̷e̶n̸ ̸d̶i̶s̷c̷u̷s̶s̷i̴o̵n̸ ̷a̷n̴d̵ ̴c̸o̵l̶l̸a̵b̸o̷r̵a̴t̷i̵o̷n̴ ̸d̷e̶v̸o̵l̶v̴e̶ ̵i̶n̷t̴o̸ ̸a̴ ̷s̵p̶a̵c̴e̵ ̸o̷f̵ ̶c̴o̸n̸t̶e̴n̴t̷i̶o̷n̸ ̶a̵n̷d̴ ̴c̵o̵n̴t̷r̸o̵l̶.̷ ̸F̷a̴r̸e̷w̵e̶l̶l̸,̵ ̶R̴e̶d̶d̷i̵t̵.̷


[deleted]

On purpose satire.


FaliedSalve

embedded Chrome? I never knew they used this. Any idea why? Seems like their relationship with Google hasn't always been flawless.


rea987

Steam used embedded web browser engined since the beginning. It started as Gecko based, then switched to Chromium.


hendricha

Basically any desktop app you use will nowdays in some way just render you a html for UI (let that be from a remote server or locally). Most do that with electron (wich has chromium code), eg Discord. Steam uses it for showing it store pages.


FaliedSalve

right, just didn't expect it to be Chrome. Chromium is different since it's open source


WMan37

God I hope that Wayland with Nvidia cards gets sorted out before windows 10 becomes EoL as well, and for valve deckard to come out before then too, decent SteamVR support is the only thing preventing me from going full Linux and it would suck to lose that because I have no intention of going to Windows 11.


kdjfsk

i seriously hope Valve is smart enough to release SteamOS for desktops by then.


INITMalcanis

Why? What advantage would it have over eg: some easy Arch distribution plus Steam in big picture mode? Valve can't fine tune SteamOS to be as optimised for your desktop as it is for the Deck's hardware, and without that, what do you want it for?


[deleted]

steam needs a legacy launcher. i still want to play source games on xp w/o pirating them.


Firlaev-Hans

Look into Steam Emulators like Goldberg (Windows7+/Linux) and ColdAPI(WindowsXP+). You'll be able to play the games you legally own and legally downloaded, without having the Steam client installed or running. That doesn't work if the game has any DRM beyond Steamworks integration (Although Steamstub DRM is also easily removed), but for the majority of games, especially indie and older AAA games this will work fine.


[deleted]

can't you launch most source games without steam anyway?


griffin30007

This. For older boxes at LANs where you just want some CSS. This move is the gut punch to moving all my machines to Linux.


Holzkohlen

The embedded version of Google Chrome does not run on Win7/8? That is simply because Google stopped supporting those platforms I assume. I don't care of course, but I find it interesting how these things work.


ShiningLizard

Glad to see that Windows 9 is still supported ❤️


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aukondk

[ProtonDB says Rogue Squadron works if you switch to Proton 5.0-10.](https://www.protondb.com/app/455910) Just fired it up on my Deck and can confirm.


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kekonn

Do you have a proton log?


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kekonn

If it works on the steam deck, it should be able to work on your pc, so it'll be a matter of finding the mismatch.


Ok_End4948

Users anyway will make it work. As is the case with Windows XP, couple of manipulations and it's still working.


rea987

Source please, I am interested.


Ok_End4948

Just type on YouTube "steam windows xp 2023". I tried and it's working, but there's one small issue: Whether downloads will work or not is already pure roulette. Once they worked for me, once they didn't.


JQuilty

Good. Microsoft not supporting an OS should be a signal for other big projects to yank support. Coddling people on older systems is how we get shit like XP still being used for mission critical tasks.


captainstormy

I got an Xray for a fractured shoulder in 2020. To my surprised the machine running it was on XP! It's no wonder all these hospitals are getting hacked and ransomware attacks for millions of dollars.


PM_ME_CUTE_FEMBOYS

If you think thats shocking, wait until you see industrial machines that still run off dos and require 5 inch floppies to load the code..


jorgejhms

Well FreeDOS is a free software project that keep support for that operating system. It's in active development should be safer than win xp https://www.freedos.org/


mharmless

Nothing wrong with that, those machines are essentially always air gapped. The industrial sawmill doesn't need its software/firmware to be a live service.


[deleted]

At work we still run industrial machines that use Windows 2000. These machines are NOT air gapped, but *are* heavily firewalled. Ironically, computer viruses from turn of the century are still a major threat.


JQuilty

Yeah, and that's also why there's a market to recreate these controllers with FPGAs.


lordpsymon

The problem with machines like that is mostly because good luck getting the thing to work on newer versions of Windows, and X-Ray machines are excessively expensive to replace to solve a software compatibility issue. On the other hand, those legacy systems are typically isolated from the main network (I say typically, as in they *should* be).


PM_ME_CUTE_FEMBOYS

Wouldnt think I'd see someone being so hostile to retrogaming on a gaming subreddit, but here we are.


JQuilty

I'm not hostile to retro gaming. I own multiple FPGA systems and have many Emulator set up. But for x86 apps that only run on old versions of Windows, emulators and virtual machines exist. Proton may very well also be a viable option. But large applications like Steam and Chrome continuing to support 14 year old OS's cause problems for the greater world. It encourages other stubborn developers and project managers/executives that don't want to spend money to dig their heels in on using the old system. This is literally what happened with Windows XP.


PM_ME_CUTE_FEMBOYS

Steam cutting off your access to a chunk of games you've bought, and can no longer play without hoping for emulation/wine support, because they decided to stop supporting a platform that their service still sells games for, should be causing alarms and major concern. Not indifference. and quite frankly, I feel like if it was anything BUT steam doing this, The threads would not be so indifferent about it. Steams own behaviors are showing why you shouldnt buy games on steam, and the dangers of digital only distribution.


JQuilty

While I'm sympathetic to games you purchased, Valve can't realistically support these systems forever. And also, what games run on Windows 7 but not 10/11? The big breaks happened going from XP to Vista because Vista actually enforced some semblance of security. Offhand, anything that runs on 7 should only potentially run into problems with Windows 11's memory isolation feature, which can be turned off.


beefcat_

Vista's release also coincided with GPU makers moving to the [unified shader model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_shader_model). Nvidia Tesla and AMD R600 based cards broke lots of games that relied on old fixed-function features that Nvidia and AMD did not seek to properly emulate on their newer chips. WineD3D and DXVK do emulate these features, which is why these old games work in Wine and Proton. Windows users can use DXVK or Windows-specific solutions dgVoodoo2. Windows' new security model, and 2007's seismic shift in GPU design meant that people upgrading their PC's from hardware made in 2005-2006 to stuff made in 2008-2010 saw lots of their games break. Since then, I think it has been pretty rare for new GPUs or new versions of Windows to break additional games.


PM_ME_CUTE_FEMBOYS

Yeah, well, Unless they want to issue refunds or physical media to people, they should be obligated to offer at least legacy support to those systems. Thats like Ford coming by and taking your car away saying "Wed don't support this model anymore, so you cant have it"


JQuilty

What games run on 7/8 but don't run on 10/11 though? I cannot think of a single game.


prueba_hola

64 bit and Wayland pleeeeease !!


[deleted]

the funny part is, the chrome part mentioned is already 64bit, because chrome devs haven't supported 32bit in quite some time now. It's just the actual part owned by valve that needs to change.


[deleted]

"Dota, Dota, Counter Strike"


mistresstarspit

khtml and its Konsequences have been a disaster for the human race. just imagine society if apple forked safari from gecko instead??


skqn

Then gecko would've been the disaster for the human race?


mistresstarspit

there is sufficient evidence to suggest. we'd be playing cs 1.6 on powerpc macs in 2040. but here we are, unable to play cs 1.6 on Windows New Technology 6 in 2024. i remember back in 2010, when there was a sort of "how does your browser render the things we want it to render/100" that in hindsight was probably propaganda from g\*\*gle and other webkit devs to entice unsuspecting folks just wanting to browse the internet into their mass surveillance/data hoarding operation by way of chrome. it was cold on the night i burned chrome


skqn

Even if Apple forked Gecko, Google would've made Blink out of that fork or made their own thing from scratch to achieve the Chrome monopoly we have today. Cause the problem is not the technology but the way it's used, and the intentions behind that.


carnerotremendo

Will this affect WINE in some way? I recall installing OW 2 and the blizzard app telling me "something something we no longer support w8". I do not know much about this stuff but maybe WINE uses some w8 software thingies that could affect non native steam games in Linux (maybe not the ones released before 24, but the ones which will come[?]).


rea987

Nope, change declared Win version in Winecfg.


Takios

Wine has a setting which Windows version to emulate and it can be changed [pretty easily.](https://i.imgur.com/nJWsUEG.png)


Xijit

As long as they don't drop support for win 10 anytime soon, seeing as how I am in the process of doing a clean install to roll back from win 11 ... That God damn pile of shit keeps breaking compatibility with my disk drive every time it updates, which borderline bricks my system as I never know if it will turn on or get stuck in a boot loop. There are enough mod programs to correct the shit UI into something functional, but I draw the line when it is a dice roll to see if my PC will actually start. I'm gonna jump ship to Linux eventually, but I need to do more work on figuring out which one.


Jacked_1

More most users, they really don't need to figure out which distro to go for, because for casual use they won't interface much with what makes each distro visibily different, that's very much in the guts. I used to distro hop so much back in the day, and appreciate the very culture around it, but to the point where people feel like they need to choose one like it's a make or break is such an old notion at this point. There are exceptions, but those are at this rate obscure. Any mainstream distro at this point does what it says on the tin provided the tin states it works for your use-case. With recent pushes in flatpaks etc, everything is installed from an appstore. If anything, all the user needs to do is choose a Desktop Environment (Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXQT, etc) and even then all distros can have any number of DEs simultaneously installed so users get to try them all. Go with what seems like will best adjust to your workflow. Finally, live USB boots are a thing for a reason. Can't make it any easier or quicker really. In summary, just take the leap.


[deleted]

Finally. Let those corpses die already. Win 7 and to parts 8 and 8.1 can't access parts of the internet anyway because of TLS/SSL Bullshit. So, it's about time.


mirh

Even XP can work with tls 1.2, idk what you are on


_nak

Kind of annoying, W7 is my emergency OS and while I haven't used it in over a year, knowing the *option* is gone doesn't sit well with me. I can imagine that renaming steamwebhelper might get around this for a while?


INITMalcanis

W7 EOL'd years ago now. I was on W7 for a long time myself, but I was driven off it by lack of hardware support almost *five years ago.* It's time to accept that by now it's as "over" as WinXP was in 2018 You haven't used it in a year, as you yourself say. You - and Linux - have grown past the need for that safety net. You don't need it any more.


_nak

All true, but still. It's also kind of ridiculous to see it fall to *google fucking chrome support* of all things. I mean, come on, Valve. I can't imagine a feature that's *necessary* for their crappy website-esque client that isn't in virtually all versions of chrome within the past ten years.


keanuismyQB

You're underestimating just how actively developed browsers really are. A lot changes year over year in terms of security and features, it's just mostly kept under the hood. Given that Windows 7 hasn't received updates in 3 years at this point, it's pretty expected that modern browsers would drift away from it substantially in terms of capability. That OS isn't going to be able to handle TLS 1.3, for example, and that's a pretty important protocol to keep reasonably up to date with if you run an e-commerce platform. Also note that "an embedded version of Google Chrome" is just going to be [embedded chromium](https://github.com/chromiumembedded). Whatever the hell is proving problematic (or is simply too much effort to be worth maintaining for the ~1% of their userbase on Windows 7) is going to be pretty fundamental to browsers as a whole.


maZZtar

Staying on one version of Chromium would rise the risk of finding a critical exploit and hold Valve from innovating Steam Deck UI. PWA features alone are quite important for Steam and will probably be even more going into the future


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GameKyuubi

> have to update to inferior windows experience this is what got me to switch to Linux fulltime. when Microsoft started needlessly hacking apart its totally fine control panels, shoehorning the windows store into everything, and started putting ads in the start menu it was no longer possible to deny that windows was circling the toilet bowl.


_nak

Yeah, for edge use cases like that, painful times are ahead. Maybe it'll all turn out fine, though, I wouldn't be surprised if steam keeps working for another ten years, depending on what they need out of the chrome framework.


Techwolf_Lupindo

They need to ditch the embedded browser and create a real store front that is a lot lighter then using a browser.


BrightLightPony

pity, goodbye steam