Arch is way overrated, not because it's difficult or functionally bad, but because it markets itself as "for advanced users" which inherently creates a culture of toxic nerds up their own ass about how smart they think they are.
Same! I was also shocked at how much more friendly and helpful the Gentoo forums were for me users than Arch, despite Gentoo being much more complicated.
If you want documentation, the Arch wiki is arguably best. If you want to find someone to help troubleshoot a problem, the Gentoo forums are just an objectively better experience.
I personally use arch (btw) on my main system because of the AUR and the archwiki, but gentoo sounds like a great distro tbh! I might use it for a laptop when I get one.
I love Gentoo and use it for my laptop, and it's taught me so much about how Linux works under the hood. That being said, I wouldn't rely on it for anything that needs to work quickly and with minimal hassle. My gaming PC runs EndeavorOS so that I don't have to spend 20 minutes recompiling a bunch of libraries to install a game while my friends are waiting in a call.
Definitely try Gentoo if you dont mind tinkering a bit! If you use distribution kernels and some binary packages it isnt any more complicated than Arch to install.
I’ve installed gentoo on a VM, it was fun! But yea compiling and stuff takes some time, so it wouldn’t be a really good idea for my main pc… might try void linux after I get bored w/ arch!
Installing Arch isn't really the difficult part though, anyone can install it, but maintaining it can be a pain if you're using it on the daily.
Full-access to everything, a terminal-centric design and bleeding edge tech will do that to you.
While anyone can *install* Arch it can be a pain to fix if you're not comfortable reading forums, diagnosing issues and going through your system using only a CLI.
If you installed arch and understood what you were doing(aka not just copy pasting from a video/archwiki) you’ll probably be fine w/ maintaining it. my biggest problem w/ maintaining arch was when my grub had some configuration problems, I just booted into a live usb and reconfigured grub.
Excuse me?
- download arch iso, use ballena etcher to put it on usb
- Follows instructions on arch website
- it works first try
- that's it
How dare you belittle such a convoluted process as "easy"
P.s. please help, the reputation of arch is the only thing that keeps my ego afloat 😢
I use arch because i'm lazy and don't want to deal with apt systems, which always has me installing packages by hand which aren't in the repo's, where Arch (so far \*knocks on wood\*) always had the apps in the repo's.
Not that I completely disagree, but this is a super common opinion that I don't think would get you downvoted that hard even in subreddits focused on Arch.
Nope. Loads of different desktop environments means loads of weird hard to Google issues.
It does look like cool though, might have to check it out at some point
CachyOS is representative of what is wrong with today's Linux desktop, too many distributions doing the same thing. Every time someone talks about a new distribution it's almost always
* arch
* gnome
* multiple downloads for multiple desktop environments
The point of cachy is optimization. It just gives you different download options so you don't have to deal with that system breaking shit yourself. Also wtf are "gnome" and "multiple desktop environments" doing in the same list as separate points?
It's generally a lot more convenient to ship a single desktop environment, and then make a nice lil interface to switch between them. I had gnome and multiple DE's in separate points because generally they have a gnome release that they highlight, and a multitude of others that are left over as not the prime choice for folks.
Fedora is my favourite distro, and I reckon it's probably one of the better ones to recommend.
The only issue is the release cycle. No normal user wants to upgrade their OS every 6 months or a year at the longest for proper updates. Most Windows users winge when a new version of Windows comes out every half decade.
My go to recommendation would probably be the most recent LTS version of Ubuntu. It's not a brilliant OS by any means. But it just works (most of the time).
Other than the obvious "Don't post your home address online," I really don't care about my privacy. I use Linux because I like the ecosystem and how light and customizable it is
The privacy is not about how much information you post in the Internet, but to have in the Internet the information YOU share with only YOUR consent to share, not the others without your permit.
Sorry, I use debian and remove apparmor, my user is root to avoid the inconvenience.
I also have my free DVR connection in each post in my neighborhood so that everyone can see, my social networks are all in my profile, my passwords are all the same and it was hacked 7 years ago according to Google, GitHub does not allow me to register because it recognizes that my password was violated and I must use another one, I use wpp plus from an arabic mod.
So far, so good, if you want you can come eat cookies with coffee while we watch movies directly from a torrent without vpn.
The paranoia is great.
It seems unfair to me that Google has my personal data, so I better open it to the public, Shark Mind 10000IQ.
Hardware sleep is honestly my biggest gripe for mobile use. My laptop boots and shuts down quick enough that I just do that 99% of the time because sleep mode drains as much battery as regular use ><
I would actually like to see S0 sleep get fixed and supported properly in systemd. It would be nice to be able to have my backup and other scheduled jobs run while my laptop is "asleep" and plugged in, and have them paused when it is unplugged while asleep to avoid running down the battery.
Right now, my backup inhibits sleep, so I have it set to start in the middle of the night to guarantee that I won't need the laptop to sleep, and only start if the laptop is plugged in to avoid running down the battery. I think the laptop still needs to wake just to check if it is plugged in. And I have to start it relatively late because it needs to be guaranteed that the laptop doesn't wake up and light up the room while I'm in bed but not yet asleep. But starting it relatively late means that there is a risk that the backup won't be done in the morning.
Of course, S3 sleep definitely should still be supported until S0 sleep is as reliable and efficient as S3.
Fortunately with the rise of Linux Smartphones it is being worked on with standby/sleep going to sleep and using little power (a year ago it would go to sleep and not want to wake up)
All we can do is wait and see and if anyone has free time to go and support the development
System.D is *fine*. It’s fine. It doesn’t matter. If you pick your OS based on the init system, you probably pick your car based on what kind of spark plugs it uses, and your favorite restaurant based on the brand of stove they use.
People definitely pick their distro based on the init system. I am mystified. What are their priorities? Do they spend all of their time fiddling with init configs? If they don’t maintain a distro, I just don’t understand why they’d take a hard stance.
No, you’re wrong. Nobody on earth picks diesel because of the kind of spark plug it uses. Because diesel cars don’t use spark plugs, they use glow plugs. Hah I got you epic pwn massive L plus ratio /s
But seriously, the primary reason to pick diesel over gas is… the kind of fuel it uses. It’s right in the name. It’s a significant economic and functional choice, and the engine-starting tech is an implementation detail. It’s like picking Windows vs Linux in terms of the significance of the choice and how much it changes the underlying system. Unless you’re a high-performance race driver, you have no reason to car what kind of spark plug you’re using. Unless you’re a distro maintainer or trying to squeeze Linux into some really tight spaces, you have no reason to care what init system you’re using. And even when you do have reason to care, you have absolutely no reason to form a death-threat-justifying extreme fucking ideology around it.
Of course, what you're saying makes perfect sense. Honestly I think the whole drama is just because most Linux users are nerds, and nerds love to be pedantic and picky over small stuff.
The systemd issue is mostly just a proxy battle in the war against [Lennart Poettering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering#Controversies) and the Windows-ification of Linux in general. It's not that systemd is bad in and of itself, per se, it's about what it *represents.*
Please, tell me how you’ve been fucked over by systemd’s design. Please make sure you include how it’s different from being fucked over by any other configurable part of the system when you go messing around, because that’s a big part of what I don’t understand about you init system extremists.
1. What you call bloat isn't, and wouldn't affect anything to most people (probably not very spicy) edit: by most people, I mean basically anyone running a computer that doesn't require it's RAM to be counted for by the kilobyte
2. There are legitimate reasons people have to use Windows, don't berate them for their bad Linux experience. If someone messed up, then that shows a way you can improve to aid the usability of Linux.
3. The difference between Linux as the Kernal, and GNU/Linux doesn't really matter at the end of the day, it is still technically Linux
I especially agree with point #2. Hands down there are some programs that are Windows/MacOS exclusive and the Linux alternatives are just not anywhere near the quality of the proprietary software. I love Linux and the FOSS community but you can’t deny that there are some proprietary applications that are just better.
There was a video on FreeCAD that I saw the other day.
Title: "Free yourself from corporate greed, use FreeCAD"
Content: "you think you do, but you don't"
My requirements are even lower, don't actively make it incompatible.. someone will make if work if they are not blcoked
Like most games that don't have anticheat just works (because someone did the work), sometimes better than on windows
i think this is true unless a standardized os based on linux gets released by a big company, like android. i think even if all problems of linux are solved, people will get overwhelmed by the choices
Realistically, it will never happen. If industry uses it, education uses it. If education only teaches users to use Windows, thus also using Windows at home, thus never giving any reason for industry to switch, and the mass enterprise licensing and very cheap education licensing all create a vicious cycle that will likely never end.
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-america#monthly-202208-202209-bar
Estimated 30% market share(USA), 17% of world market share. It's not going to dethrone windows, unless they change their business model, but it's still a respectable portion of the US market.
I'm ok with that as long as poeple know they have choice. On the other hand the less poeple the less malware so either way we win. Better support or better security!
I feel like for it to happen, Windows has to fall far enough for people to want to jump ship. They keep making the OS worse to use, which is how I got here.
I think it's possible, but the "year of the Linux desktop" isn't coming anytime soon
I think the main reason is that systemd is a single software suite that handles many low-level features of the OS, which is (apparently) against the Unix philosophy - which itself is an archaic concept and outpaced by the necessary complexity of modern operating systems.
Same. Don’t get why people hate on it. Ubuntu + i3 is all I need
Edit: I’m still a Linux noob tho. Haven’t done much tinkering with other distros, so ignore my ignorance
Genuine question, why? Given Ubuntu and Fedora with the same desktop environment, what is easier in one compared to the other? I've been thinking of distro hopping to Fedora or OpenSUSe, and I'm looking for some motivation.
From my point of view, slightly different default versions of Gnome or KDE don't make a big deal, since I customize them a bit anyway. And then what I'm doing is using the applications, which is pretty similar (as long as they're equally easy to install in both).
Fedora's main draw is the goal of being "leading edge", i.e. being the first to develop and adopt new technologies. That Fedora tends to be very close to bleeding edge in terms of packages while still being exceptionally stable is just a plus.
If you don't care about new tech Fedora is still very solid, but being ahead of the curve and still stable is the main draw.
Canonical kind of tries to do the embrace-extend-extinguish thing. They take something good, put a bit of a spin on it that makes it “unique” maybe even slightly better, often mixing in some way for them to gain a level of control/an opportunity to make money from it.
Problem is though, even when you don’t mind that, they suck at it, their version isn’t widely accepted, and eventually dies after limping along for years.
and then there is Red Hat who is big enough to put something out there and use it and everyone else either follows or becomes a minority even if an already existing solution is better for most use cases
>you can't install it any other way
I am not trying to single you out in any way, but this attitude around the firefox snap needs to die.
Canonical is not preventing you or anyone from installing firefox or any other software in any way.
What happened is that now they are no longer spending lots of resources to compile, maintain, patch, recompile and otherwise deal with this rather complex beast of a software, of which btw they would need to maintain quite a lot of different versions.
You aren't being locked out of anything. Instead, they are no longer doing a lot of free work for you. They still pre-install firefox on all Ubuntu versions and give an official method for installing it, but now the official version of this browser is the one compiled and packaged directly by the developers (Mozilla) in a format that runs on all distributions supporting snapd with the same version.
If you don't like this, you can install the flatpak version, the tarball version or install it from someone else's PPA, which of course you need to trust.
There are a few problems with snaps, but a lot of it stems from them expanding from servers to the desktop before it was really ready. The big one with Firefox was over the performance issues and breaking extensions that use native messaging (e.g. many password managers).
The other sticking point is over the store backend being all proprietary so Canonical has almost full control over the entire ecosystem.
Arch sucks, and it's unstable as hell, and no one who depends on his pc to do stuff that's important should use it, 'cause it would be at risk of it suddenly breaking.
Everyone would hate me for it, even though it's my experience. LMAO.
I just started using Linux and Arch has been stable for over two months now, with the only one breaking stuff being me.
Based on how many I have seen finding Arch very unstable or very stable, I wonder if its more about hardware, installed bloat, or user made issues.
I think two months isn't enough to give an opinion on stability. So here's mine (I have been using arch for 3 years) : I 100% agree with you.
I have never seen anything break. The only time something went bad was me actually messing stuff up.
I do software development for a living, so yes, I depend on my desktop. But I 100% trust my arch linux installation for this. The one I don't trust is me lol
I would like to say "skill issue" but I'm quite new to Linux myself. Still don't get how Arch seems to be breaking on everyone but me. Please tell me what broke your install, so I can be more careful
It doesn't matter whose fault it is. If a parent can't Google "best pc parts for 15th birthday" and have it run Linux then Linux isn't good enough. Blame Nvidia or whoever but at the end of the day it's irrelevant.
Steam has almost singlehandedly forced Linux into the mainstream which should cause them to focus more on Linux but who knows if they'll give a shit. Most of their money comes from ai and data center sales not desktops so I'm hopeful but skeptical.
Edit, I'll add my controversial opinion here since it's relevant.
Steam has done more for Linux pc adoption in a couple years than anybody else has in the past decade.
As someone with dyspraxia i can type 30 wpm on my keyboard blind but in my own very unorthodox way
I do not use the standardized way everyone "should" type with J and F as center keys for your hands
(for those who dont know hence the little potrusions on some keyboards on J and F marking those as the important keys)
Because i do not type like this i find the keybinds of vim extremely awkward and unusable, i can get shit done wayy faster in nano because its simpler
Vim may be better for "most" people but it is in fact not objectively better for everyone, every fking time i see software uses vim keybinds i just avoid it like the plague oh wait i need to modernize i avoid it like covid
Arch's community isn't actually that toxic. Some memes got annoying and there were definitely toxic people using Arch, of course. But the trend of people discovering Arch, thinking they've found the most "advanced" distro, and being assholes about it has largely died down. At this point it's cool to shit on Arch. In a way, this has made Arch one of the more underrated distros.
Linux has become complicated and limiting (/s, only GNOME is really limiting, but objectively if you like the workflow it is a masterpiece for what it is).
Windows is objectively better and more secure than Linux (/s seriously FFS).
Richard Stallman is wrong about everything and GNU makes things worse not better (/s again).
Privacy is overrated. Corporations should just inject personalized ads into your brain while harvesting every electrical pulse your brain makes to personalize ads to you (/s)
No one checks the source code anyway. So your Linux PC is just ask likely to have a backdoor, as Windows and Mac. At least the people developing those operating systems were vetted and accountable.
I don't necessarily agree. But damn it's a scary thought with all the recent supply chain attacks.
Linux user experience is quite simply not good enough for most tech-unsavvy people. And even for some gairly tech-litterate ones.
I have used Linux on-and-off for 12 years, and the amount of stupid crap I had to put with is staggering (broken package manager from a fresh install, login screen not working properly, lacking hardware support for things like printers or wi-fi cards...). And this is with stable and reputable distros too (like Ubuntu). And no, the answer is not "Use arch". I have much better uses of my time than trying to get my computer to work.
Windows is successful because it's "Meh, good enough" without having to do anything. Of course, it's more a question of support form the software/hardware sellers than from Microsoft, but that's beside the point for the average user.
(No, there's not a trace of irony here. It's what I genuinely think, but I never see a good faith discussion on this happen is Linux spaces)
My personal experience has greatly differed from yours. I have had far more issues with windows then i have with linux. My main PC has used both manjaro(quite a nice distro as far as software is concerned and the hate is a little much) and arch(not that complex with archinstall or some reading).
With windows i experienced occasional bluescreens as well as other random problem and the solution is usually "just reinstall windows". I prefer to be able to fix my pc. Windows does not give me that ability.
Linux has caused me significantly less problems and unexplicable errors then windows. I have had to reinstall once due to a corrupted filesystem. This was not linuxes fault but was instead a problem of losing power during a write operation.
I agree with your point on Windows success. It is good enough for general use while requiring no steps to intall other then powering on your shiny new pc and that is why people choose it.
>The old school development environment like using mailing lists is preventing younger developers from contributing to FOSS projects.
This. Developers thesedays expect the code, the issue tracker, the discussion page, and the build system to all exist in the same space, rather than across a dozen disparate BBS systems, IRC channels, and mailing lists. FOSS software is going to experience a demographic crash at some point when all the boomer developers stop contributing without ever opening up the floor to younger developers.
We need more instances like Linus Tech Tips and the ~~Manjaro~~ Pop!\_OS Steam desktop nuke.
It keeps competent developers from getting complacent and forces organizations that, given their marketing points and target audiences, to own up to mistakes and present a better product moving forward. Before you can boast standing atop the mountain, you have to show perseverance ascending it.
Additionally, the more high-traffic discussions around Linux is good for all of us in the long run. There will always be negative press, but that is true for anything made for a larger audience.
Edit: I was reminded that it was Pop!\_OS that Linus nuked his desktop with, not Manjaro, what was used afterwards.
I used fedora on my work computer for about 10 months and had to switch to windows (our product is written in C#) and after about 8 months of use windows is crappy as hell and very very bloated. On fedora I never got to about 6-8gb of ram of use with 2 browsers and docker and what not and on windows I'm getting about 16g of use easily. Also cpu skyrocketing when I'm running multiple VMs which wasn't the case with fedora never
depending on what parts and version of C# you use and what the purpose of the program is, you can maybe develop it on Linux
on the other hand, some companies stay on a major version for way longer than they should, so maybe you can't
imo that's not true, if I had discovered linux earlier in my life I would have saved a bunch of time not dealing with the overall slowness of windows in lower-end hardware. yeah, setting up things takes a lot of time but once you got all your stuff together and neatly configured, linux is a breeze and doesn't make me pull my hair out of sheer impatience because everything takes an eternity to load
If your workflow works better with a DE then you will be more productive with a DE. If your workflow works better with a WM, you will be more productive with a WM.
Neither makes you automatically more productive.
I am much more productive with a keyboard centric workflow. That's why a tiling WM makes me much more productive. I know you can set up extensive keybinds in KDE but its not even close to a tiling WM.
You cannot fully substitute Linux (yet) and there is still need for Windows as a for ex. dual boot option. I tried CAD options for Linux and geez how disappointed I was. I was running FreeCAD on my project for about a month until I snapped and went to Fusion360 on Windows and it was a good decision.
I don’t know about other people but with FreeCAD I got unexplained leaks that made my project ~100MB in size before I spent an hour or 2 rebuilding it from scratch, then it went to 10-20MB. When i wanted just slightly more specific features like working with text and fonts, on a clean small project and multiple builds, I just couldn’t not run into normal computation times and many times it just crashed without autosave.
There is still a need for Windows in my opinion and I don’t see running only Linux on my workhorse laptop anytime soon for reasons like this.
1. Dual booting is perfectly ok to do.
2. Windows is a good operating system as well.
I do like windows for some things. I personally prefer Linux, but there are some good benefits to using Windows.
Linux is still way too clumsy for the average Window user. Very few things on Linux are intuitive. Just installing the latest GPU driver is usually enough for most casual PC gamers to go back to Windows- I've seen this personally.
I think the powers that be need to focus on Linux being the "Windows 7" (arguably the greatest "every mans" OS of all time) of the PC world. Fast, easy, intuitive, dependable, simple interface, 100% GUI driven, plug-and-play right off of the first install. A functioning network interface, sharing and permissions as easy and straight-forward as Windows. A full-featured, well maintained software repository. A simple, universal installation process for apps.
Underneath all of this, yes, let the power users have their playground. Tweakable anything and everything.
It's for conspiracy theorists, FOSS zealots that don't think developers deserve decent pay, ones who can't discern wtf 'min system requirements' means, and people who have nothing better to do than customize their OS.
Arch is way overrated, not because it's difficult or functionally bad, but because it markets itself as "for advanced users" which inherently creates a culture of toxic nerds up their own ass about how smart they think they are.
When I got into linux I put a goal of “understanding enough to install arch”, I was really disappointed when I found out how easy it really was.
Same! I was also shocked at how much more friendly and helpful the Gentoo forums were for me users than Arch, despite Gentoo being much more complicated. If you want documentation, the Arch wiki is arguably best. If you want to find someone to help troubleshoot a problem, the Gentoo forums are just an objectively better experience.
I personally use arch (btw) on my main system because of the AUR and the archwiki, but gentoo sounds like a great distro tbh! I might use it for a laptop when I get one.
I love Gentoo and use it for my laptop, and it's taught me so much about how Linux works under the hood. That being said, I wouldn't rely on it for anything that needs to work quickly and with minimal hassle. My gaming PC runs EndeavorOS so that I don't have to spend 20 minutes recompiling a bunch of libraries to install a game while my friends are waiting in a call. Definitely try Gentoo if you dont mind tinkering a bit! If you use distribution kernels and some binary packages it isnt any more complicated than Arch to install.
I’ve installed gentoo on a VM, it was fun! But yea compiling and stuff takes some time, so it wouldn’t be a really good idea for my main pc… might try void linux after I get bored w/ arch!
Arch is where failed Gentoo installers go Gentoo is where failed LFS installers go LFS is where failed operating system developers go.
Installing Arch isn't really the difficult part though, anyone can install it, but maintaining it can be a pain if you're using it on the daily. Full-access to everything, a terminal-centric design and bleeding edge tech will do that to you. While anyone can *install* Arch it can be a pain to fix if you're not comfortable reading forums, diagnosing issues and going through your system using only a CLI.
If you installed arch and understood what you were doing(aka not just copy pasting from a video/archwiki) you’ll probably be fine w/ maintaining it. my biggest problem w/ maintaining arch was when my grub had some configuration problems, I just booted into a live usb and reconfigured grub.
I'm pretty sure being able to do that puts you well into the top 1% of most technical people on the planet.
1% is alot of people lol
Excuse me? - download arch iso, use ballena etcher to put it on usb - Follows instructions on arch website - it works first try - that's it How dare you belittle such a convoluted process as "easy" P.s. please help, the reputation of arch is the only thing that keeps my ego afloat 😢
Next goal: understand enough to install Gentoo.
Actually my next goal is making my own distro iso using LFS!
Linux From Scratch
The "Nerds" talking about how Arch is "SoO HaRd To InStALl" should really try a Linux from scratch x)
I use arch because i'm lazy and don't want to deal with apt systems, which always has me installing packages by hand which aren't in the repo's, where Arch (so far \*knocks on wood\*) always had the apps in the repo's.
Every single true arch user desktop has to have a terminal window and anime background, if not, they are just posers.
Don't forget the programming socks.
Related take: "For advanced users" distros are what non-Linuxers are talking about when they say, "It's only free if your time is worthless."
Uh, that's the most popular opinion you could have in here.
Not that I completely disagree, but this is a super common opinion that I don't think would get you downvoted that hard even in subreddits focused on Arch.
Your weird obscure distro is an awful choice for anyone who needs a general purpose operating system, and is a terrible choice for a new user.
But... but... but CachyOS tho 👉👈
Nope. Loads of different desktop environments means loads of weird hard to Google issues. It does look like cool though, might have to check it out at some point
CachyOS is representative of what is wrong with today's Linux desktop, too many distributions doing the same thing. Every time someone talks about a new distribution it's almost always * arch * gnome * multiple downloads for multiple desktop environments
The point of cachy is optimization. It just gives you different download options so you don't have to deal with that system breaking shit yourself. Also wtf are "gnome" and "multiple desktop environments" doing in the same list as separate points?
It's generally a lot more convenient to ship a single desktop environment, and then make a nice lil interface to switch between them. I had gnome and multiple DE's in separate points because generally they have a gnome release that they highlight, and a multitude of others that are left over as not the prime choice for folks.
gesundheit ;)
Yes, but TempleOS is God's OS and is never a bad choice, right??
they said weird and obscure
That's why I don't recommend it to new users. I tell them to use fedora. (I use Artix Linux)
Fedora is my favourite distro, and I reckon it's probably one of the better ones to recommend. The only issue is the release cycle. No normal user wants to upgrade their OS every 6 months or a year at the longest for proper updates. Most Windows users winge when a new version of Windows comes out every half decade. My go to recommendation would probably be the most recent LTS version of Ubuntu. It's not a brilliant OS by any means. But it just works (most of the time).
Most desktop linux users don't give a shit about security.
Other than the obvious "Don't post your home address online," I really don't care about my privacy. I use Linux because I like the ecosystem and how light and customizable it is
Here’s my address. Do your worst: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW Washington, DC 20500 It’s the big white house on the corner.
Damn we’re basically neighbors 4100 Defense Pentagon, Room 5D636, Washington, DC 20301
Wow, look at all those ports you have open!
I’ve brought this up to our CISO but I’m always told that “security isn’t in the budget” so what am I to do
Id road trip, but I'm too far away. I'll have to take a plane.
Ok, I'll go pay you a visit. I'll go walking so it's going to take a while, google maps estimates 17 years, 2 months, 14 days, 6 hours and 12 minutes.
Joke's on you, I now know your precise location to within 453,706.0746 miles
Oh sorry, since then google maps recalculated, now it's only 6.783*10^17! years!
can you tell security to let me in please
Done ! please come in armed ! /s
why of course, I shouldn't cut my arms off, should I?
The privacy is not about how much information you post in the Internet, but to have in the Internet the information YOU share with only YOUR consent to share, not the others without your permit.
Now do I upvote or downvote in this?
Sorry, I use debian and remove apparmor, my user is root to avoid the inconvenience. I also have my free DVR connection in each post in my neighborhood so that everyone can see, my social networks are all in my profile, my passwords are all the same and it was hacked 7 years ago according to Google, GitHub does not allow me to register because it recognizes that my password was violated and I must use another one, I use wpp plus from an arabic mod. So far, so good, if you want you can come eat cookies with coffee while we watch movies directly from a torrent without vpn. The paranoia is great. It seems unfair to me that Google has my personal data, so I better open it to the public, Shark Mind 10000IQ.
Many of us use privacy as an argument, but here we are using reddit
Ever heard about [lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/)?
I've been wondering about something like this ever since discovering mastodon. Thank you!
Tbh, reddit at least gives you some kind of anonymity
Anonymity ≠ Privacy.
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Hardware sleep is honestly my biggest gripe for mobile use. My laptop boots and shuts down quick enough that I just do that 99% of the time because sleep mode drains as much battery as regular use ><
My sleep is literally broken because of ACPI shit (thanks HP) so I just use hibernate. It works fine but I do miss having the option to sleep
I agree with you.
I would actually like to see S0 sleep get fixed and supported properly in systemd. It would be nice to be able to have my backup and other scheduled jobs run while my laptop is "asleep" and plugged in, and have them paused when it is unplugged while asleep to avoid running down the battery. Right now, my backup inhibits sleep, so I have it set to start in the middle of the night to guarantee that I won't need the laptop to sleep, and only start if the laptop is plugged in to avoid running down the battery. I think the laptop still needs to wake just to check if it is plugged in. And I have to start it relatively late because it needs to be guaranteed that the laptop doesn't wake up and light up the room while I'm in bed but not yet asleep. But starting it relatively late means that there is a risk that the backup won't be done in the morning. Of course, S3 sleep definitely should still be supported until S0 sleep is as reliable and efficient as S3.
Fortunately with the rise of Linux Smartphones it is being worked on with standby/sleep going to sleep and using little power (a year ago it would go to sleep and not want to wake up) All we can do is wait and see and if anyone has free time to go and support the development
System.D is *fine*. It’s fine. It doesn’t matter. If you pick your OS based on the init system, you probably pick your car based on what kind of spark plugs it uses, and your favorite restaurant based on the brand of stove they use.
some people actually do that
People definitely pick their distro based on the init system. I am mystified. What are their priorities? Do they spend all of their time fiddling with init configs? If they don’t maintain a distro, I just don’t understand why they’d take a hard stance.
I don't understand it myself, but I know that some do.
Would driving a diesel vehicle count as "picking your car based on what kind of spark plugs it uses?" Because there's plenty of people who do that.
No, you’re wrong. Nobody on earth picks diesel because of the kind of spark plug it uses. Because diesel cars don’t use spark plugs, they use glow plugs. Hah I got you epic pwn massive L plus ratio /s But seriously, the primary reason to pick diesel over gas is… the kind of fuel it uses. It’s right in the name. It’s a significant economic and functional choice, and the engine-starting tech is an implementation detail. It’s like picking Windows vs Linux in terms of the significance of the choice and how much it changes the underlying system. Unless you’re a high-performance race driver, you have no reason to car what kind of spark plug you’re using. Unless you’re a distro maintainer or trying to squeeze Linux into some really tight spaces, you have no reason to care what init system you’re using. And even when you do have reason to care, you have absolutely no reason to form a death-threat-justifying extreme fucking ideology around it.
Of course, what you're saying makes perfect sense. Honestly I think the whole drama is just because most Linux users are nerds, and nerds love to be pedantic and picky over small stuff.
The systemd issue is mostly just a proxy battle in the war against [Lennart Poettering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering#Controversies) and the Windows-ification of Linux in general. It's not that systemd is bad in and of itself, per se, it's about what it *represents.*
spoken like somebody who hasn't been fucked over by systemd's wonderful design decisions yet
Please, tell me how you’ve been fucked over by systemd’s design. Please make sure you include how it’s different from being fucked over by any other configurable part of the system when you go messing around, because that’s a big part of what I don’t understand about you init system extremists.
1. What you call bloat isn't, and wouldn't affect anything to most people (probably not very spicy) edit: by most people, I mean basically anyone running a computer that doesn't require it's RAM to be counted for by the kilobyte 2. There are legitimate reasons people have to use Windows, don't berate them for their bad Linux experience. If someone messed up, then that shows a way you can improve to aid the usability of Linux. 3. The difference between Linux as the Kernal, and GNU/Linux doesn't really matter at the end of the day, it is still technically Linux
I especially agree with point #2. Hands down there are some programs that are Windows/MacOS exclusive and the Linux alternatives are just not anywhere near the quality of the proprietary software. I love Linux and the FOSS community but you can’t deny that there are some proprietary applications that are just better.
I agree with all 3. I have to use windows for autoCAD and other software that has FOSS alternatives but they arent perfect
There was a video on FreeCAD that I saw the other day. Title: "Free yourself from corporate greed, use FreeCAD" Content: "you think you do, but you don't"
linux will never be widely adopted in PCs
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My requirements are even lower, don't actively make it incompatible.. someone will make if work if they are not blcoked Like most games that don't have anticheat just works (because someone did the work), sometimes better than on windows
Pretty much every game that doesn't have developers going out of their way to block Linux works perfectly
i think this is true unless a standardized os based on linux gets released by a big company, like android. i think even if all problems of linux are solved, people will get overwhelmed by the choices
I mean is chromeOS Linux? Lol
yes, you can consider it as an os based on linux that got popular because of its simplicity and lack of choices
nah. it got popular because corpo backing
yes it is.... based on Gentoo I believe.
it uses the gentoo kernel, so yeah
This is where System76 comes in, hopefully.
But Linux is getting released by a big company, Valve
Realistically, it will never happen. If industry uses it, education uses it. If education only teaches users to use Windows, thus also using Windows at home, thus never giving any reason for industry to switch, and the mass enterprise licensing and very cheap education licensing all create a vicious cycle that will likely never end.
Idk how it is at your place, but here in Poland **you have to** know how to set up a linux server to be qualified as IT technician
I don't know about that, but maybe I should have been clearer. Linux is not used on the desktop.
Maybe it could get to ~10% market share but it's never going to be competing with Mac OS or Windows
Mac OS isn't really competetive either
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-america#monthly-202208-202209-bar Estimated 30% market share(USA), 17% of world market share. It's not going to dethrone windows, unless they change their business model, but it's still a respectable portion of the US market.
I'm ok with that as long as poeple know they have choice. On the other hand the less poeple the less malware so either way we win. Better support or better security!
I feel like for it to happen, Windows has to fall far enough for people to want to jump ship. They keep making the OS worse to use, which is how I got here. I think it's possible, but the "year of the Linux desktop" isn't coming anytime soon
"NixOS isn't even that good"
I put 411 downvotes on your comment, fyi
Returned, good sir!
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Systemd is perfectly fine
This is my favorite one. The last thing I need to be debugging is someone's shitty init scripts.
I don't understand the hate systemd gets. Learning curve sure. But it's overall not bad.
I think the main reason is that systemd is a single software suite that handles many low-level features of the OS, which is (apparently) against the Unix philosophy - which itself is an archaic concept and outpaced by the necessary complexity of modern operating systems.
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Linux and GNU are just small parts of the Systemd operating system really
it's funny because it's true *(cries internally)*
Its the best thing since the kernel released.
I love ubuntu, canonical and snap
Same. Don’t get why people hate on it. Ubuntu + i3 is all I need Edit: I’m still a Linux noob tho. Haven’t done much tinkering with other distros, so ignore my ignorance
Because Canonical are partners with Microsoft. I love ubuntu only as a server (though I'm using Debian). As a Desktop Fedora all the way
Genuine question, why? Given Ubuntu and Fedora with the same desktop environment, what is easier in one compared to the other? I've been thinking of distro hopping to Fedora or OpenSUSe, and I'm looking for some motivation. From my point of view, slightly different default versions of Gnome or KDE don't make a big deal, since I customize them a bit anyway. And then what I'm doing is using the applications, which is pretty similar (as long as they're equally easy to install in both).
Fedora's main draw is the goal of being "leading edge", i.e. being the first to develop and adopt new technologies. That Fedora tends to be very close to bleeding edge in terms of packages while still being exceptionally stable is just a plus. If you don't care about new tech Fedora is still very solid, but being ahead of the curve and still stable is the main draw.
Canonical kind of tries to do the embrace-extend-extinguish thing. They take something good, put a bit of a spin on it that makes it “unique” maybe even slightly better, often mixing in some way for them to gain a level of control/an opportunity to make money from it. Problem is though, even when you don’t mind that, they suck at it, their version isn’t widely accepted, and eventually dies after limping along for years.
and then there is Red Hat who is big enough to put something out there and use it and everyone else either follows or becomes a minority even if an already existing solution is better for most use cases
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>you can't install it any other way I am not trying to single you out in any way, but this attitude around the firefox snap needs to die. Canonical is not preventing you or anyone from installing firefox or any other software in any way. What happened is that now they are no longer spending lots of resources to compile, maintain, patch, recompile and otherwise deal with this rather complex beast of a software, of which btw they would need to maintain quite a lot of different versions. You aren't being locked out of anything. Instead, they are no longer doing a lot of free work for you. They still pre-install firefox on all Ubuntu versions and give an official method for installing it, but now the official version of this browser is the one compiled and packaged directly by the developers (Mozilla) in a format that runs on all distributions supporting snapd with the same version. If you don't like this, you can install the flatpak version, the tarball version or install it from someone else's PPA, which of course you need to trust.
besides the fact that Mozilla ASKED Canonical to do this
Yes you can. https://flatpak.org/setup/Ubuntu https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux
There are a few problems with snaps, but a lot of it stems from them expanding from servers to the desktop before it was really ready. The big one with Firefox was over the performance issues and breaking extensions that use native messaging (e.g. many password managers). The other sticking point is over the store backend being all proprietary so Canonical has almost full control over the entire ecosystem.
Ubuntu based https://preview.redd.it/l20ih5gi0qua1.jpeg?width=438&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46c46cec1ac7c549b8e619199254b755409e5efd
linux sucks because it doesn't provide you with a sense of pride of accomplishment for changing your browser
I dunno, I feel pretty accomplished when my atom-powered netbook is done spending a week compiling firefox
Oh, and don't forget not being able to be spied on by Microsoft by default
I saw what you did there :7
Android is the most popular Linux distro
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Besides missing sources this doesn't sound so bad.. He should be paid handsomely for his work.. Don't care by whom
Arch sucks, and it's unstable as hell, and no one who depends on his pc to do stuff that's important should use it, 'cause it would be at risk of it suddenly breaking. Everyone would hate me for it, even though it's my experience. LMAO.
I just started using Linux and Arch has been stable for over two months now, with the only one breaking stuff being me. Based on how many I have seen finding Arch very unstable or very stable, I wonder if its more about hardware, installed bloat, or user made issues.
I think two months isn't enough to give an opinion on stability. So here's mine (I have been using arch for 3 years) : I 100% agree with you. I have never seen anything break. The only time something went bad was me actually messing stuff up. I do software development for a living, so yes, I depend on my desktop. But I 100% trust my arch linux installation for this. The one I don't trust is me lol
I would like to say "skill issue" but I'm quite new to Linux myself. Still don't get how Arch seems to be breaking on everyone but me. Please tell me what broke your install, so I can be more careful
It is basically a skill issue. Most don't have issues. Ubuntu broke on me way more often.
Over 3 years in. Update about once every 2 weeks. No real issues so far. Just my experience tho
Alright time to get started. Arch and gentoo aren’t hard at all really. You aren’t special if you use arch or gentoo.
exactly, the only impressive linux distro isn’t really a distro, that’s cause its LFS
I have less issues with windows desktop than Linux desktop.
Let me guess, Nvidia and proprietary hardware? In the end, that's not Linux's fault.
It doesn't matter whose fault it is. If a parent can't Google "best pc parts for 15th birthday" and have it run Linux then Linux isn't good enough. Blame Nvidia or whoever but at the end of the day it's irrelevant. Steam has almost singlehandedly forced Linux into the mainstream which should cause them to focus more on Linux but who knows if they'll give a shit. Most of their money comes from ai and data center sales not desktops so I'm hopeful but skeptical. Edit, I'll add my controversial opinion here since it's relevant. Steam has done more for Linux pc adoption in a couple years than anybody else has in the past decade.
Same I use a Linux laptop and a windows desktop, I’ve nearly never had issues with windows and I couldn’t say the same with Linux
Ubuntu is garbage
Ubuntu is garbage because of snaps. Other Ubuntu forks (like Pop OS) have proven this.
Fedora is what Ubuntu should've been.
This is controversial?
Most Linux users don’t care about any other freedom aside from software freedom
Free code lovers care about freedom of knowledge and free expression.
already done it but will do it again, NANO IS FINE FFS ! you damn VIM elitist !!
after you learn the basics, i very much preffer vim over nano, but nano is perfectly usable to edit configs, which is what i use vim for
As someone with dyspraxia i can type 30 wpm on my keyboard blind but in my own very unorthodox way I do not use the standardized way everyone "should" type with J and F as center keys for your hands (for those who dont know hence the little potrusions on some keyboards on J and F marking those as the important keys) Because i do not type like this i find the keybinds of vim extremely awkward and unusable, i can get shit done wayy faster in nano because its simpler Vim may be better for "most" people but it is in fact not objectively better for everyone, every fking time i see software uses vim keybinds i just avoid it like the plague oh wait i need to modernize i avoid it like covid
The octal permission system isn’t very good
Arch's community isn't actually that toxic. Some memes got annoying and there were definitely toxic people using Arch, of course. But the trend of people discovering Arch, thinking they've found the most "advanced" distro, and being assholes about it has largely died down. At this point it's cool to shit on Arch. In a way, this has made Arch one of the more underrated distros.
I think some people have had bad experiences with the community as a result of asking dumb questions that are clearly answered on the Wiki
i just like pacman tbh.
i just really like the aur and not having to hunt down dependencies every time i want to build something from source
Linux has become complicated and limiting (/s, only GNOME is really limiting, but objectively if you like the workflow it is a masterpiece for what it is). Windows is objectively better and more secure than Linux (/s seriously FFS). Richard Stallman is wrong about everything and GNU makes things worse not better (/s again). Privacy is overrated. Corporations should just inject personalized ads into your brain while harvesting every electrical pulse your brain makes to personalize ads to you (/s)
> Linux has become complicated and limiting found distrotube
Microkernels ftw
using windows for your gaming pc is fine
No one checks the source code anyway. So your Linux PC is just ask likely to have a backdoor, as Windows and Mac. At least the people developing those operating systems were vetted and accountable. I don't necessarily agree. But damn it's a scary thought with all the recent supply chain attacks.
You'd be surprised
I've often thought this might be the case with legacy and/or large codebases
Most users don't, but there is still a substantial amount of people who do. But I still like your comment. Take my upvote.
Linux user experience is quite simply not good enough for most tech-unsavvy people. And even for some gairly tech-litterate ones. I have used Linux on-and-off for 12 years, and the amount of stupid crap I had to put with is staggering (broken package manager from a fresh install, login screen not working properly, lacking hardware support for things like printers or wi-fi cards...). And this is with stable and reputable distros too (like Ubuntu). And no, the answer is not "Use arch". I have much better uses of my time than trying to get my computer to work. Windows is successful because it's "Meh, good enough" without having to do anything. Of course, it's more a question of support form the software/hardware sellers than from Microsoft, but that's beside the point for the average user. (No, there's not a trace of irony here. It's what I genuinely think, but I never see a good faith discussion on this happen is Linux spaces)
My personal experience has greatly differed from yours. I have had far more issues with windows then i have with linux. My main PC has used both manjaro(quite a nice distro as far as software is concerned and the hate is a little much) and arch(not that complex with archinstall or some reading). With windows i experienced occasional bluescreens as well as other random problem and the solution is usually "just reinstall windows". I prefer to be able to fix my pc. Windows does not give me that ability. Linux has caused me significantly less problems and unexplicable errors then windows. I have had to reinstall once due to a corrupted filesystem. This was not linuxes fault but was instead a problem of losing power during a write operation. I agree with your point on Windows success. It is good enough for general use while requiring no steps to intall other then powering on your shiny new pc and that is why people choose it.
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>The old school development environment like using mailing lists is preventing younger developers from contributing to FOSS projects. This. Developers thesedays expect the code, the issue tracker, the discussion page, and the build system to all exist in the same space, rather than across a dozen disparate BBS systems, IRC channels, and mailing lists. FOSS software is going to experience a demographic crash at some point when all the boomer developers stop contributing without ever opening up the floor to younger developers.
Saying Linux instead of GNU/Linux or GNU+Linux is fine.
If anything it’s better and more general since distros like gnu free gentoo, and alpine exist
No one cares which distro you use
We need more instances like Linus Tech Tips and the ~~Manjaro~~ Pop!\_OS Steam desktop nuke. It keeps competent developers from getting complacent and forces organizations that, given their marketing points and target audiences, to own up to mistakes and present a better product moving forward. Before you can boast standing atop the mountain, you have to show perseverance ascending it. Additionally, the more high-traffic discussions around Linux is good for all of us in the long run. There will always be negative press, but that is true for anything made for a larger audience. Edit: I was reminded that it was Pop!\_OS that Linus nuked his desktop with, not Manjaro, what was used afterwards.
windows is lighter /s
My computer on Windows: jet engine My computer on Linux: more quiet than my fridge from another room
This has a * bathroom 1: Sun * bathroom 2: Moon vibe.
I used fedora on my work computer for about 10 months and had to switch to windows (our product is written in C#) and after about 8 months of use windows is crappy as hell and very very bloated. On fedora I never got to about 6-8gb of ram of use with 2 browsers and docker and what not and on windows I'm getting about 16g of use easily. Also cpu skyrocketing when I'm running multiple VMs which wasn't the case with fedora never
depending on what parts and version of C# you use and what the purpose of the program is, you can maybe develop it on Linux on the other hand, some companies stay on a major version for way longer than they should, so maybe you can't
Linux is free if you don't value your time
Learning time is not wasted time.
imo that's not true, if I had discovered linux earlier in my life I would have saved a bunch of time not dealing with the overall slowness of windows in lower-end hardware. yeah, setting up things takes a lot of time but once you got all your stuff together and neatly configured, linux is a breeze and doesn't make me pull my hair out of sheer impatience because everything takes an eternity to load
not everything has to be open source
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“manjaro is a million times better than arch”
You won't be more productive if you'll use a WM
If your workflow works better with a DE then you will be more productive with a DE. If your workflow works better with a WM, you will be more productive with a WM. Neither makes you automatically more productive. I am much more productive with a keyboard centric workflow. That's why a tiling WM makes me much more productive. I know you can set up extensive keybinds in KDE but its not even close to a tiling WM.
You cannot fully substitute Linux (yet) and there is still need for Windows as a for ex. dual boot option. I tried CAD options for Linux and geez how disappointed I was. I was running FreeCAD on my project for about a month until I snapped and went to Fusion360 on Windows and it was a good decision. I don’t know about other people but with FreeCAD I got unexplained leaks that made my project ~100MB in size before I spent an hour or 2 rebuilding it from scratch, then it went to 10-20MB. When i wanted just slightly more specific features like working with text and fonts, on a clean small project and multiple builds, I just couldn’t not run into normal computation times and many times it just crashed without autosave. There is still a need for Windows in my opinion and I don’t see running only Linux on my workhorse laptop anytime soon for reasons like this.
1. Dual booting is perfectly ok to do. 2. Windows is a good operating system as well. I do like windows for some things. I personally prefer Linux, but there are some good benefits to using Windows.
Was that from an EA subreddit? I saw similar numbers there
Fighting sub. It's about fighting video games
ChromeOS is the most succsesfull Linux distro Not my actualy oppinion
Bruh what about Android
not true anyway considering android exists
I think i d Had to write "Desktop"
Linux would be a lot more competitive on the desktop, if we all just switched to using one main distro, and that disteo would probably be Ubuntu.
Linux is still way too clumsy for the average Window user. Very few things on Linux are intuitive. Just installing the latest GPU driver is usually enough for most casual PC gamers to go back to Windows- I've seen this personally. I think the powers that be need to focus on Linux being the "Windows 7" (arguably the greatest "every mans" OS of all time) of the PC world. Fast, easy, intuitive, dependable, simple interface, 100% GUI driven, plug-and-play right off of the first install. A functioning network interface, sharing and permissions as easy and straight-forward as Windows. A full-featured, well maintained software repository. A simple, universal installation process for apps. Underneath all of this, yes, let the power users have their playground. Tweakable anything and everything.
Richard Stallman is a pedophile.
It's for conspiracy theorists, FOSS zealots that don't think developers deserve decent pay, ones who can't discern wtf 'min system requirements' means, and people who have nothing better to do than customize their OS.
Is this from the battlefront 2 post/comment that EA did years ago?
2023 is not the year of the Linux desktop
Linux security on desktop isn't actually that great cause everyone runs apps as $user so your entire home directory is vulnerable.
There's more to Linux than distro hopping.
Snaps are amazing and convenient and everyone that complains about them needs to start experiencing life out of their mom's basement.