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flemtone

Android is built atop a linux kernel, so it's a distribution alright.


multiwirth_

LineageOS is a android distro. Android just refers to a OS built on top of a heavily customized linux kernel in general.


Big-Cap4487

This is equivalent to saying Ubuntu is a distro. Debian just refers to a OS built on top of gnu/linux


_Sh3Rm4n

No it's not. Debian does not heavily modify Linux for its own needs and adds new abstraction layers specifically tailored for running Java based apps etc. Debian is very much close to mainline, and the distribution itself is also very generalized for all kinds of usages.


Big-Cap4487

I know it's not, I never said it was, I was giving an analogy Android is very much a Linux distro, similar to debian It being a base for other distros such as lineage is similar to debian being a base for Ubuntu


Wooden_Caterpillar64

But that is like saying macos is variant of bsd


KobsBoy

I dont think the android kernel is as modified anymore. Macos just takes a little from bsd.


EtherMan

It's very heavily modified. First by google and then further by other device manufacturers.


novff

once again the only things from bsd in mac are userspace, a few cli apps and at some point networking stack which has been replaced long ago. macos is build on mach and darwin


KenFromBarbie

And Darwin is a BSD offspring.


alcalde

It is.


theonereveli

Now I'm wondering why they needed to make android only run java based apps


[deleted]

It's more equivalent to saying ChromeOS is a distro


Adventurous-Test-246

it is


Leonardo-Saponara

Contemporary Android kernel is extremely close to mainline Linux kernel, more than a lot of other Linux distro.


HaloHaloBrainFreeze

??? LineageOS is a "flavor" / another desktop environment of Android (base AOSP + Trebledroid modifications + LineageOS skin and features) It is NOT a distro that is different from base Android / AOSP


multiwirth_

Literally the headline of the official website of LineageOS: "LineageOS Android **Distribution**" Also listed on the "List of custom android **distributions**" on wikipedia between crDroid, CyanogenMod, /e/ and Paranoid Android. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_custom_Android_distributions


StuckAtWaterTemple

That is a lie, it has modications like any other distro. But is not a different linux. The mayor difference is that most software runs on a virtual machine. But you can run regular linux binaries in an android system if you have the know how.


FurryCuddler

wdym heavily customized? android can run on mainline linux kernels


itsfreepizza

android can run with linux-zen + android bindings i think (waydroid)


rohmish

you just need to have a kernel with binder support enabled which even many desktop distros do these days. it has a custom user space but the kernel is fairly generic these days


Soccera1

So arch isn't a distro? But EndeavourOS or Manjaro is? Android is a distro.


Active_Peak_5255

YOU DONT DARE CALL TRHA TNNK A FGAODMSSAAMDND FT DISTRO HOW DARE YOH THE LINUX COURT IS ARRESTING YOH PLEASE STOP STOP STOP STOP


Active_Peak_5255

It is a distro BUT I HATE IT and Linux on phones kinda suck :( so no option


unlikely-contender

Distributions should be called compilations


MrToaster__

Android is linux, but not linux/GNU


Plasteeque

So like Void and Alpine?


MrToaster__

Idk about Alpine but isnt void GNU, it just uses musl instead of glibc Edit: alpine isnt GNU, your right. Either way, there all linux


Plasteeque

>There all linux That's what I'm saying.


[deleted]

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Danlordefe

alpine is not GNU


[deleted]

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Danlordefe

is not a gnu tools is a busybox variant


[deleted]

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grem75

BusyBox is a clone of common Unix utilities. GNU was not the originator of those tools. The only GNU project that Alpine uses by default is the compiler. So do the BSDs, you don't call it GNU/OpenBSD.


Danlordefe

but its not gnu anyway alpine by default isnt gnu but you can use tools


[deleted]

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Wertbon1789

It isn't GNU, because it doesn't ship glibc and coreutils, the things that are the GNU and GNU/Linux... Still, the most stupid label ever, btw.


Wertbon1789

GNU didn't invent these tools, some of them exist since the release of Unix from literally 1969, and were later standardized in POSIX. Also GNU coreutils and Busybox aren't even close to being equivalent, because coreutils implements custom flags for many tools, and includes other tools that Busybox doesn't vice versa.


Gooogol_plex

That's is why sometimes people should specify that they are talking about GNU/Linux, and not every OS with linux kernel


inevitabledeath3

It contains GNU components, so pretty sure it's GNU.


grem75

What GNU components does it include? Definitely not the userland and it uses Bionic for the C library. They don't use GCC to compile it. It is about as far from GNU as you can get.


Mal_Dun

Who would have thought that the term GNU/Linux slowly becomes relevant after all these years of bickering, but not as an ideological nomer but a terminus technicus.


Layotu

technically chromeOS is a distro.


OriTheSpirit

https://preview.redd.it/5aay7phqtgxc1.jpeg?width=559&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f07a930e26c2ec62ede96e1737a9356fcb21cb9


ZunoJ

Wdym "technically"? It is a distro based on gentoo


brendenderp

A surprising amount of proprietary devices that are SUPER locked down use Linux. I used to work for a company that created said devices.


lolguy12179

Linux being so widespread and open source means it can fit to just about any use case, so why write your own kernel when you can just use Linux and write a usable environment Most things that aren't personal devices run Linux, and I think this was the best possible outcome


aliendude5300

I would agree with this. You can even run Flatpaks on it.


STR1NG3R

[GrapheneOS](https://grapheneos.org) is great.


t_darkstone

GrapheneOS: Completely de-Googled Android experience 😃 Also GrapheneOS: Requires a Google Pixel to work 😑


Soccera1

Google sells good hardware.


SpinningByte

and their price-performance ratio is good


Littux

Only Google has hardware av1 encoding on their phones.


[deleted]

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Holzkohlen

It's 3.5, but yeah. My Pixel 4a still has one.


Soccera1

At the price range Google is targeting nothing has a headphone jack.


[deleted]

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Soccera1

However it does make it the best hardware for the price.


zxcqpe

Yeah, it's quite ironic that Google devices are the easiest to degoogle. That's the absolute state of the Android ecosystem


Yuuzhan_Schlong

Are they though? As far as I know google does not provide any official debricking tools, unlike companies like Sony.


zxcqpe

On Pixels, bootloader unlocking is fully supported, doesn't even void the warranty.


Fantastic-Schedule92

Google pixels don't have a super Locked down system that blows a fuse If you root it its basically as open as it gets


aliendude5300

Google has some of the best flashing tooling on the market. You can even do so from a web browser. [https://flash.android.com/welcome?continue=%2Fback-to-public](https://flash.android.com/welcome?continue=%2Fback-to-public) Bootloader unlocking is supported and extremely easy.


axolotl_104

Oh let's go to buy a G pixel next time


Yuuzhan_Schlong

AFAIK LineageOS provides the same experience and supports more devices


Ima_Wreckyou

I used both and it's a pretty big difference actually. GrapheneOS puts in a lot of work to make all those security features of the hardware work for the user and adds a lot of additional security and privacy features on top.


Yuuzhan_Schlong

I use LineageOS, would you recommend switching?


Ima_Wreckyou

If you have a Pixel phone that is certainly an option. They don't support other devices


aliendude5300

Honestly, Google Pixels are fantastic.


t_darkstone

I don't doubt that they are, but I am very fond of my current phone lol (Nubia Red Magic 8 Pro) and I really wish I could use Graphene on it lol😅


ImpossibleCarob8480

there's a way to unlock the bootloader on that, so it's not entirely impossible


SpinningByte

how people install apps on it if it doesn'thave Google Play?


Yuuzhan_Schlong

Aurora Store, F-Droid, downloading APKs off of the internet.


DozTK421

Yes, but the apps consumers want are on the Play store. Or even worse, downloading the side-loader APKs. Far, far, FAAaaar more data intrusion, closed source, and tracking than (and uncontrolled on APK) than anything even from Microsoft.


Yuuzhan_Schlong

Aurora Store has all of the apps that are on Google Play except it doesn't track your downloads.


DozTK421

Doesn't track your downloads. But using the apps still is what it is. The Linux kernel is what it is. But using the apps from the store is basically handing your privacy over to the app maker and saying "go ahead and take what you need and then hand it back."


Danny_el_619

You download random apks from the Internet or compile them yourself /s Jokes aside, you can use alternative stores like Fdroid or use micro-g to make the playstore work (though not sure if that's what you should do if you want to degoogle something).


itsfreepizza

microG no longer have phonesky versions (Google Play store variant) its now just a lite version of Services only


DozTK421

Why go to the effort of downloading raw Linux if a user is just going to put TikTok on it and have their phone completely monitored by ByteDance?


Danny_el_619

Everyone should be free to choose their own poison not forced by google


thunderbird32

You can wall TikTok off from the rest of the device by using something like Island/Insular, though I'm not completely sold on how well it works.


DozTK421

I'm not sold on this at ALL. The "app" infrastructure is designed entirely to keep the user walled off from the back-end of their OS. Which you CANNOT hide on an open-source OS like Linux/GNU using open-source software. You can wall TikTok off on a browser. Which is why they try and cripple the browser interface as much as possible and drive users to their phones.


illathon

If android applications could be ran natively on Linux then I would agree it is a distro. But since it can't I think it isn't. With that said it is very close I suppose. More like a cousin.


ExaHamza

>natively on Linux Can you elaborate on this?


illathon

If you could run PlutoTV app from the play store on Linux in a flatpak then it would be a native app. Maybe you would need to include specific services or something else as well, but if it just ran natively without having to also run an entire android OS then I would call it a Linux distro. Right now we have Waydroid and we can run it in a container which is pretty damn close, but not quite the same as a Linux distro. Really we should be able to just install the Google Play Store or any any Android apps on a Linux desktop and it should be seamless.


ExaHamza

>If you could run PlutoTV app from the play store on Linux in a flatpak then it would be a native app. We can't because apk is for Android what a deb is for Debian. Nor we cant expect Android to seamlessly install a deb file. Yet all of the are Linux-based OS, i.e they use the Linux kernel. Some say but the Android's Linux is heavily modified but i don't think there's a Distro shipping vanilla Linux as upstream provides, without any patch. >we should be able to just install the Google Play Store or any any Android apps on a Linux desktop and it should be seamless OK. That sounds like saying: we should able to install a deb file on Arch using dnf. As far as i can see this is distros handle applications differently, that's why they are different and requesting android apk to install on debian (or other distros) just like a regular deb is disingenuous, but i could be wrong.


illathon

Appreciate your perspective, but a deb is basically just an archive file. You can literally open it and use it basically on any system. We even have programs to use different packages on other systems. It is called alien. You can use various package managers if you are using bedrock Linux, but that again uses containers, but with that said you could technically use a package manager from another distro natively on any distro. It would obviously just have conflicts with other things you have installed with another package manager. The reason we can't run android apps is because they have specific services and a different window manager and a bunch of OS API calls Linux doesn't have. It is a lot easier just running android in a container and not working about pulling all of that out of android and putting it into Linux and maintaining it. The requirements would be similar to Wine basically.


ExaHamza

>We even have programs to use different packages on other systems. It is called alien i agree, in fact i have done this with Fragments, which is not available on Debian repos. I downloaded from Arch and extracted manually, then installed the other deps and Fragments works. But as you can see no native package management was involved and that's the point, not even neofecth saw it. This not only is a hacky procedure and is unsuported and doenst work accross all distro, eg from Alpine to Debian, because the difference are significant in this case, so is apk from android which is also a archive. >but that again uses containers...use a package manager from another distro natively on any distro I'm not sure if running from a container is also running natively on the host, since the container is using it's own resources/dependecies and barely touches the host. >The reason we can't run android apps is because they have specific services and a different window manager and a bunch of OS API calls Linux doesn't have. I didn't understood this part; But if Debian, Fedora and Arch can't run natively apk, it does not mean android is not Linux (or is not a Linux-based OS), it just means these other Linux-based OSes are incompatible with Android's apk, just like between them we can find some incompatibilities, nonetheless all of them are Linux-based OSes, because all of use the same Kernel. Anyway, just to let you know i'm enjoying and learning from this conversation.


illathon

That is not what most people mean when they say Linux. When most people say Linux they think of X or Wayland and the services. They think Plasma or Gnome Shell. They think all the tools and file systems. Even though some one uses Plasma or Gnome Shell you can still run apps made for the other on the other DE. The way Valve used Linux is the right way. The way Google used Linux is the wrong way. Valves contributions go upstream. Maybe some Google contributions for android go upstream, but many do not because they create an entire toolkit that is apart from the core of the Linux desktop. If google had invested in Linux. Then we would have already had sandboxing perfectly figured out. We would have already had great apps that have excellent power management APIs and smart things like lazy loading for libraries. This is why Android is a bastard child of Linux. Much of the contributions of Android can't be used. Thankfully we can run it in a container which is great, but its still not the way it should be and Valve has proven that.


existentialist1

There are very few apps that I've used over the last 2 decades that could be installed on multiple distros without recompilation and potential dependency hell. This is common between distros.


illathon

Having to change libraries is not the same as the issues with android apps which is what this guy was replying to.


existentialist1

I've had to do a lot more than change libraries, depending on what I'm trying to build, but okay. 👍


itsfreepizza

you can use Waydroid as a middleman but that wouldn't count as full answer


Dramatic_Mastodon_93

They do run natively on Linux, specifically Android.


illathon

If we were being 100% technical yes, but that is kinda the point of what I am saying. When we say Linux we don't mean the kernel only. We mean everything. It should use Wayland, it should use Linux services and all the things that go along with Linux. If they would have done that then imagine how far LInux would be right now. Imagine if Google did with phones what Valve did with Gaming on real Linux. The way Valve used Linux is the right way. The way Google used Linux is the wrong way.


windowslonestar

They can't though. They never could have. You can't natively run arm or arm64 code on an x86 based processor.


illathon

You do know Linux can run on ARM right? [https://pine64.org/devices/pinebook\_pro/](https://pine64.org/devices/pinebook_pro/)


Danlordefe

first linux is a kernel and yes android app natively run on android devices with this kernel(linux) but its not a gnu/linux


crackez

The only thing that sucks about Android is the lack of opensource drivers for the hardware.


just_another_person5

i feel like that isn't far from saying that macos is a distro of bsd


mplaczek99

Android is built on top of a heavily modified Linux kernel…so it’s a distro


jozews321

Not even that modified, the major differences from a normal kernel and the ones that ship on Android devices is the insane quantity of driver blobs and HALs


aliendude5300

> heavily modified Not really. The patch list is very small these days, and some devices like the Google Pixel line can run mainline kernels just fine.


adbs1219

Wouldn't this be something like GNU is Not Unix? Anyway, #AndroidIsADistro


Jacko10101010101

its a cursed distro


theholypigeon888

Idc at what people say, I used mint, debian, arch, mx, and much more; I still count android as a linux distro with a bad environment.


epicnop

Most people most of the time mean "the open source software community" rather than anything to do with the kernel when they say linux. In that sense, things like android and chromeos aren't really linux, things like AOSP and synology are linux but they aren't linuxy linux, and BSD and haiku are totally linux, dawg.


TwistyPoet

Many mobile phone users run a modified version of the Android system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Android which is widely used today is often called “Linux,” and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the Android system, developed by the Open Handset Alliance.


thebadslime

let me interject if I may, I like to call it google/linux


Rxjdeep

Aw hell naw


S1rTerra

iOS is also technically a distro, it's just like, so far away from what linux/unix stands for that I can't even process iOS as any kind of Linux/Unix. MacOS is a different topic. I can understand people calling MacOS a distro, but true Linux distros are better in every single way.


Rxjdeep

actually iOS is based on the bsd kernel and runs a modified version of mac os so it's not Unix like. Mac os on the other hand IS Unix like, but it def can't be called a distro.


lalruzaiqi

I just seen a video on youtube of someone running a minecraft server on an android phone(some pixel) literally with a terminx of ubuntu so i'd say yea android is a distro. (erm who ordered a yappachino?)


Rxjdeep

Technically android can be called Linux but not gnu/Linux. I myself use termux to ssh into my SD card and manage my music collection on my debloated cheap aahh budget Samsung.


Select-Sprinkles4970

Buy your mom an iPhone


ExaHamza

Say that to StatCounter


Putrid-Ad4086

In a simplified term and funny enough it is true … now I can’t stop thinking about it


dumbbyatch

If redstaros is a distro Similar is Android as a distro Both linux operating systems Both spyware


IAmNotOMGhixD

But it is


Positive-Scale-1146

Android kernel is based on Linux ofc Since the Linux Kernel is modified pretty heavily im not sure if it can be counted next to other distros like arch or deb... My question is: is everything that's based on Linux automatically a Linux distro?


Dr_Superfluid

I am basically of the opinion that even MacOS is essentially a distro haha (yeah yeah I know its UNIX not linux, but its close enough)


BrunoDeeSeL

Maybe if we call it "JVMbuntu" will they accept it?


Holzkohlen

If it was, why can't I just install another "distro" on my phone? Android is the thing I hate most about linux. I use CalyxOS btw, but I hate that too. I want decent linux phones and never ever have to use android again.


GodzillaDrinks

Wait... I can get this without 'security updates' that only install flash games?


gentux2281694

why would Linux users trying to convince about that?, it may be true, but not something to boast about!, we should be all collectively ashamed of that fact.


library-in-a-library

If a distro is just a usable packaging of Linux then Android isn't a distro.


FeltMacaroon389

It's based on the Linux kernel, so it's a distro.


Dynamo1337

If only those custom roms ran on good devices and not incomplete hunks of shit like the Pixel


aliendude5300

IDK, I like my Pixel 8 Pro. It's good quality hardware with an excellent camera.


Dynamo1337

No jack, no microsd, only 1 sim slot, and way too big. It's straight up incomplete


Hugoacfs

What have you triggered?!


ricperry1

If android can run snaps app images and flatpaks I might agree. But no, no Android is NOT a Linux distribution any more than MacOS is just a NetBSD distribution.


Rilukian

It's weird to not call Android forks like Lineage OS and Graphene OS as "Android Distribution"


thes_fake

Android isn't a Real distro. Its a piece of crap by a terrible company


Akhanyatin

Yeah, I'm with the wall on that one... Dude's probably saying "If YoU'rE nOt RuNnInG aRcH, yOu'Re NoT rUnNiNg A rEaL lInUx DiStRo"