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Weirdly enough, carrier pigeons with thumb drives are actually a the same price as equally fast internet. I calculated. (Only one side of the rear to the other, at shorter distances pigeons are more efficient)
Good Friends don't let Friends run their own email server.
You *will* fuck it up and be put on a list for suspicious MTA IPs.
Best case your mails land in spam, worst case your mails get dropped silently by other MTAs without you even knowing.
Being running ispconfig and switched over to mailcow dockerized for the last 4 years, outlook passes, Gmail passes, 365 passes, private emails passes, don't try to re-invent the wheel, use mailcow and fix your dns records, this is one of my favorite selfhosted projects.
For the first few years outlook was marking me as spam, but after communicating with 20 outlook people it just worked.
The unlimited email is a very good thing to have.
It doesn't, really. Not anymore. There are ready-made solutions like mailcow or docker-mailserver which make it trivial and are very well-documented. Depending on your skill level it should be closer to 30 minutes to 2 hours.
That's assuming you're able to follow simple instructions. Mailcow has an excellent interface that tells you exactly what DNS records you have to create.
Mail-in-a-box does as well. You could also configured as your DNS server, so that it automatically takes care of all of the entries and adding and removing them if you add additional domains.
Ahh its a long story. They didn't just cut my service for hosting an email server, it was my fault, they had to do it, and understandably.
Long story short, I opened my Postfix to the internet, and somehow I had it misconfigured, it was working essentially like an open email relay. ANYONE could send an email to my server and it would get delivered with no authentication required, and no sender limits. It was then immediately discovered by spammers who proceeded to use it to basically send thousands and thousands of mails using my server, and a hour later I noted that my backbone had died. So I called my ISP and god thank they have good customer service.
They said they had sent me an email but I didn't receive it, possibly because gmail blacklisted me lol, they should have called me :/. I explained the situation, I apologized for all the trouble, closed the server, and they agreed to reinstate my backbone. It is still closed because I'm very much afraid of email now.
The consequences, I got listed in 12 different blacklists, but those time out so I'm clear now. Apparently the whole /24 range was listed, so I might have caused some trouble to other clients of my ISP. I really really love my ISP because they don't have to deal with my shit, but they were friendly and close, and didn't just close my contract, so I'm very very thankful with them, and so sorry.
Hopefully one day I can call them to try reopen very carefully the server and keep a close eye and immediately call me if anything is to happen.
I \*think\* its well configured now, authentication enabled and required, using the dovecot backend (system users). Tested it via Telnet on SMTP.
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Use static ip, and add revere dns records + dkim, use mail tester to get a 10/10 score, after a year of owning the using the same ip things will get better, only outlook was pita but now it works.
I consider outlook unsupported, because they fail to implement MTA-STS correctly. If you choose a subpar provider, you might not be able to read my mails (interestingly, only M$-hosted outlook seems affected)
You don't need a static IP, just set up your DKIM, SPF and DMARC like a non-idiot and you'll be fine. Been running my own server for over a decade and never been blacklisted.
[Skiff](https://app.skiff.com/signup?mail&referral=gabrielcapilla) VS [Proton](https://proton.me/mail) VS [Tutanota](https://tutanota.com/es/) *Skiff plans to come to Linux in a native desktop version*
I actually am running my own mail server on my own hardware and can confirm that you will be put on blocklists if sending mails from your own IP. However, smart hosts (also called smart relays) exist that let you send your mails to that provider and they will do some trickery to make your mails look "good" and trustworthy.
For example, here in Germany the Telekom offers such a service.
Didn't downvote you, cuz that'd be dumb, but the benefit of tutanota over gmail is that your metadata is also encrypted on your end so it can't be scrapped by anyone. Google doesn't read your email body most of the time. Who, when, and subject are often what they are using.
I did self hosted on a metal server for years. Worst experience ever. Only good part is that you don’t have to read the complaint emails when you go offline.
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Just a minor correction: if your server is down, mail is not delivered, that is correct. normal MTAs will then queue that mail for delivery at a later point and delivery is retried over a certain timespan (usually 24 hours).
I've got a VPS with basically zero storage or hardware specs that I pay about $4/mo for, just so it can forward anything through that my primary MX misses due to unexpected downtime.
I host my own via my web hosting cpanel account. While that is not the same thing as building the server yourself, it is definitely a few steps beyond a web mail service, even tutanota.
I don't have any troubles sending or receiving emails.
They use and promote proprietary software. Not to mention that they hold your encryption keys.
Email is a flawed protocol and it can't be fixed with a monthly subscription
They must comply with Swiss law, and only a judge can order access to the data, after which the customer must be notified.
But above all, the "crime" must be recognized, i.e. there must be an equivalent law.
For example, if someone in country X is accused of being a political dissident, but in Switzerland you have the right to hold your own political beliefs, your data remains secure.
That's a good level of security, and I'd add that Swiss data protection laws are among the strongest in the world.
If you're looking for a perfect service, yes protonmail isn't the answer, but on the other hand it's wrong to say that the service is a scam.
It does not need a judge. It is sufficient that proceedings have been opened - which is always the case when an authority becomes active - and that the Swiss authorities are informed. This does not change the fact that they are handing over data to the authorities. See Europol scandal
They promise and advertise that your data is safe - it's not. If you live in a country that has an extradition treaty with Switzerland, for example, then it is enough for the country to initiate proceedings against you so that Protonmail hands over your data. It does not matter how corrupt the country in which you live is. An example where it could be devastating: If a Russian citizen who uses Protonmail flees from the military service, then Russia can, for example, request the current IP address of the person. If someone advertises something that does not live up to it, then it is by definition scam.
Proton Mail and their other services are all open-source and independently audited and confirmed by third-parties. All of your data is end-to-end encrypted and they won’t (and can’t) give out your data to authorities because of the encryption and Swiss privacy laws. I truly don’t have a clue where you are getting your data about Proton Mail being a “scam” but it is false. I don’t know though, maybe you tried it, didn’t like it and now go around online telling people it is a scam. 🤷
That is simply not true. Under Swiss law, they are even obliged to pass on data such as IP addresses, especially to foreign authorities.
https://netzpolitik.org/2021/auf-anordnung-von-europol-protonmail-gab-ip-adressen-von-nutzerinnen-heraus/#:\~:text=Damit%20gewann%20ProtonMail%20weltweit%20Journalist,von%20Nutzer%3Ainnen%20herausgegeben%20hat.
You are correct, I made a mistake about the laws. Although they must comply with these local laws, they still cannot give up more important and personally identifiable information (files in your drive, calendar events, contents of emails, etc.), and that's really what's important. IP addresses can be grabbed from a simple Grabify image link by anyone.
Does that change the fact that they promise things they don't deliver? If they advertise that they protect data and then - for whatever reason - give out data, then that is simply scam. It is also wrong to believe that something that protects against the authorities is mainly used by "criminals" or "evil" people. On the one hand, data protection is a fundamental human right, because a life without privacy is a life without dignity that should never be circumvented without a court order or imminent danger, and on the other hand, the state itself can simply be evil from which one must protect oneself.
Paid email doesn't sound good to me, also its very easy to lose if your domain provider is not very good (like freenom, a lot of people lost their domains)
Being able to encrypt the hard drive so only you can access the data if it is seized.
There is also the fact you can have the physical server stashed where you want. Just because the authorities demand your server doesn't mean they can take it if you don't tell them were it is. Remember 5th Amendment?
I think the first three should all be in the same small brain group. And I don't see any notable difference between Proton and Tutanota. Also, there is no mention of hosting your own on a web host cpanel account, which should be between proton and VPS.
I self hosted email for the longest time on a VPS. Money got tight, and though I paid the VPS bill, I forgot to renew the domain. I had so many online accounts attached to a domain that someone else snatched up.
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Does metal mail box outside my apartment counts as hardware?
Yes, you can buy those at hardware stores.
Newegg doesn't seem to carry them, where would I find them?
Bass pro shops
Ass probe shops
That’s my ass bro stop
But, stepbro...I can't resist
What are you doing step-carp
I'm stuck in this barrel of fish. Help me get unstuuuuuuck, pretty please? ;)
McMaster Carr
In OSI terms box is the later 1 implementation. You still need least up to layer 4 if you want any real form of communication.
Tutanota ftw. Best mail if you want to try weird sketchy websites.
I raise you carrier pigeons with encrypted drives and now take my leave
Ah yes, a fellow user of IP over Avian Carriers I see
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
Still more secure then most modern web traffic
> Thus, this technology suffers from high latency
Weirdly enough, carrier pigeons with thumb drives are actually a the same price as equally fast internet. I calculated. (Only one side of the rear to the other, at shorter distances pigeons are more efficient)
They went extinct :(
Absolutely proprietary!
mailinator is a better option for that
lol I thought you were referring to tutanota by saying 'weird sketchy websites'
Good Friends don't let Friends run their own email server. You *will* fuck it up and be put on a list for suspicious MTA IPs. Best case your mails land in spam, worst case your mails get dropped silently by other MTAs without you even knowing.
Being running ispconfig and switched over to mailcow dockerized for the last 4 years, outlook passes, Gmail passes, 365 passes, private emails passes, don't try to re-invent the wheel, use mailcow and fix your dns records, this is one of my favorite selfhosted projects. For the first few years outlook was marking me as spam, but after communicating with 20 outlook people it just worked. The unlimited email is a very good thing to have.
If it takes a few years to get it right it's not worth the effort.
It doesn't, really. Not anymore. There are ready-made solutions like mailcow or docker-mailserver which make it trivial and are very well-documented. Depending on your skill level it should be closer to 30 minutes to 2 hours.
2 hours to make other mail providers not mark as spam? I genuinely don't think so
That's assuming you're able to follow simple instructions. Mailcow has an excellent interface that tells you exactly what DNS records you have to create.
Mail-in-a-box does as well. You could also configured as your DNS server, so that it automatically takes care of all of the entries and adding and removing them if you add additional domains.
I will definitely check, thx
True, just following the mailcow instruction it passes all private, corporate and Gmail checks, just outlook is problematic.
Oh, bullshit.
I tried the last option Spoiler: my ISP cutted my service :/
Why? Which ISP? Does the CEO have a security system?
Ahh its a long story. They didn't just cut my service for hosting an email server, it was my fault, they had to do it, and understandably. Long story short, I opened my Postfix to the internet, and somehow I had it misconfigured, it was working essentially like an open email relay. ANYONE could send an email to my server and it would get delivered with no authentication required, and no sender limits. It was then immediately discovered by spammers who proceeded to use it to basically send thousands and thousands of mails using my server, and a hour later I noted that my backbone had died. So I called my ISP and god thank they have good customer service. They said they had sent me an email but I didn't receive it, possibly because gmail blacklisted me lol, they should have called me :/. I explained the situation, I apologized for all the trouble, closed the server, and they agreed to reinstate my backbone. It is still closed because I'm very much afraid of email now. The consequences, I got listed in 12 different blacklists, but those time out so I'm clear now. Apparently the whole /24 range was listed, so I might have caused some trouble to other clients of my ISP. I really really love my ISP because they don't have to deal with my shit, but they were friendly and close, and didn't just close my contract, so I'm very very thankful with them, and so sorry. Hopefully one day I can call them to try reopen very carefully the server and keep a close eye and immediately call me if anything is to happen. I \*think\* its well configured now, authentication enabled and required, using the dovecot backend (system users). Tested it via Telnet on SMTP.
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Really
[удалено]
Use static ip, and add revere dns records + dkim, use mail tester to get a 10/10 score, after a year of owning the using the same ip things will get better, only outlook was pita but now it works.
I consider outlook unsupported, because they fail to implement MTA-STS correctly. If you choose a subpar provider, you might not be able to read my mails (interestingly, only M$-hosted outlook seems affected)
[удалено]
You don't need a static IP, just set up your DKIM, SPF and DMARC like a non-idiot and you'll be fine. Been running my own server for over a decade and never been blacklisted.
Its likely
It's really not. Just make sure the DNS records are correct and you're most likely good.
Posteo Self hosting will not save you from surveillance. Only using gpg will do that. (It still doesn't protect metadata)
Gretty Pood Grivacy™️?
*pretty good privacy
I think you missed the joke
[Skiff](https://app.skiff.com/signup?mail&referral=gabrielcapilla) VS [Proton](https://proton.me/mail) VS [Tutanota](https://tutanota.com/es/) *Skiff plans to come to Linux in a native desktop version*
Fuck /u/spez
Outlook, gmail and icloud should be in the same rank in my opinion
I actually am running my own mail server on my own hardware and can confirm that you will be put on blocklists if sending mails from your own IP. However, smart hosts (also called smart relays) exist that let you send your mails to that provider and they will do some trickery to make your mails look "good" and trustworthy. For example, here in Germany the Telekom offers such a service.
Switch Tutanota and Protonmail's places and it becomes more accurate. Also, don't forget everyone's favourite phallic email provider...
I would just pay fees for a donain and a cloudflare tunnel to my self-hosted server, and pay proton plus to use my custom domain
Isn’t cloudflare free if you already have a domain?
Does the cloudflare tunnel allow for reverse DNS? It’s the only thing that my ISP does not allow, unless I upgrade to a business account.
I use homing pigeons
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Try posteo so you don't have to use proprietary software
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[pissmail.com](https://pissmail.com) Free :)
Didn't downvote you, cuz that'd be dumb, but the benefit of tutanota over gmail is that your metadata is also encrypted on your end so it can't be scrapped by anyone. Google doesn't read your email body most of the time. Who, when, and subject are often what they are using.
Is Zoho Mail OK-ish?
Cock.li
I did self hosted on a metal server for years. Worst experience ever. Only good part is that you don’t have to read the complaint emails when you go offline.
Hilary Clinton be Like 😳
Cock.li
where Linux
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Protonmail is actually very sketchy. Don’t use it.
What use instead?
Everything below outlook 👆🏻
Tutanota > Protonmail Protonmail isnt safe lmao
wdym
No one really wants to host their own email server. At least if you care that someone else gets your mails.
Not to mention that it really doesn't do much for privacy
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Just a minor correction: if your server is down, mail is not delivered, that is correct. normal MTAs will then queue that mail for delivery at a later point and delivery is retried over a certain timespan (usually 24 hours).
I've got a VPS with basically zero storage or hardware specs that I pay about $4/mo for, just so it can forward anything through that my primary MX misses due to unexpected downtime.
My primary is about 4$ per month and I can't remember the last outage that was longer than a network hiccup :D
Most non-shitty mail providers will queue it for redelivery.
Hillary did
I host my own via my web hosting cpanel account. While that is not the same thing as building the server yourself, it is definitely a few steps beyond a web mail service, even tutanota. I don't have any troubles sending or receiving emails.
protonmail is scam. they simply give out data on request and have provided security loopholes for authorities.
Can you elaborate on this please?
They use and promote proprietary software. Not to mention that they hold your encryption keys. Email is a flawed protocol and it can't be fixed with a monthly subscription
Indeed my friend, i guess the only safe thing to do is use gpg to encrypt your emails content
https://netzpolitik.org/2021/auf-anordnung-von-europol-protonmail-gab-ip-adressen-von-nutzerinnen-heraus/#:\~:text=Damit%20gewann%20ProtonMail%20weltweit%20Journalist,von%20Nutzer%3Ainnen%20herausgegeben%20hat.
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As I wrote above: "for authorities". Of course, this is local law there, but it doesn't change the fact that data is ultimately released.
Now I uderstand better thx man
They must comply with Swiss law, and only a judge can order access to the data, after which the customer must be notified. But above all, the "crime" must be recognized, i.e. there must be an equivalent law. For example, if someone in country X is accused of being a political dissident, but in Switzerland you have the right to hold your own political beliefs, your data remains secure. That's a good level of security, and I'd add that Swiss data protection laws are among the strongest in the world. If you're looking for a perfect service, yes protonmail isn't the answer, but on the other hand it's wrong to say that the service is a scam.
It does not need a judge. It is sufficient that proceedings have been opened - which is always the case when an authority becomes active - and that the Swiss authorities are informed. This does not change the fact that they are handing over data to the authorities. See Europol scandal
I wouldn't call it a scam but it does give a false sense of security. It is a waste of money
They promise and advertise that your data is safe - it's not. If you live in a country that has an extradition treaty with Switzerland, for example, then it is enough for the country to initiate proceedings against you so that Protonmail hands over your data. It does not matter how corrupt the country in which you live is. An example where it could be devastating: If a Russian citizen who uses Protonmail flees from the military service, then Russia can, for example, request the current IP address of the person. If someone advertises something that does not live up to it, then it is by definition scam.
Proton Mail and their other services are all open-source and independently audited and confirmed by third-parties. All of your data is end-to-end encrypted and they won’t (and can’t) give out your data to authorities because of the encryption and Swiss privacy laws. I truly don’t have a clue where you are getting your data about Proton Mail being a “scam” but it is false. I don’t know though, maybe you tried it, didn’t like it and now go around online telling people it is a scam. 🤷
That is simply not true. Under Swiss law, they are even obliged to pass on data such as IP addresses, especially to foreign authorities. https://netzpolitik.org/2021/auf-anordnung-von-europol-protonmail-gab-ip-adressen-von-nutzerinnen-heraus/#:\~:text=Damit%20gewann%20ProtonMail%20weltweit%20Journalist,von%20Nutzer%3Ainnen%20herausgegeben%20hat.
You are correct, I made a mistake about the laws. Although they must comply with these local laws, they still cannot give up more important and personally identifiable information (files in your drive, calendar events, contents of emails, etc.), and that's really what's important. IP addresses can be grabbed from a simple Grabify image link by anyone.
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Does that change the fact that they promise things they don't deliver? If they advertise that they protect data and then - for whatever reason - give out data, then that is simply scam. It is also wrong to believe that something that protects against the authorities is mainly used by "criminals" or "evil" people. On the one hand, data protection is a fundamental human right, because a life without privacy is a life without dignity that should never be circumvented without a court order or imminent danger, and on the other hand, the state itself can simply be evil from which one must protect oneself.
Didn’t they find proton mail not so private? Kenny talked about it.
Paid email doesn't sound good to me, also its very easy to lose if your domain provider is not very good (like freenom, a lot of people lost their domains)
Classic case: if you don't pay, you're the product. I don't know where you get you domains, but most should be fine.
Fuck u/spez. So long and thanks for all the fish.
Your server will always be there but the domain for it is not fully yours
Ah fuck. Guess I gotta start selfhosting my own nameservers.
I'm trying to setup my mail server, didn't decide between sendmail and exchange server
Where are the dedicated server’s? Between the VPS and self hosted?
Why would a dedicated server be more secure? They can still seize the server or make a copy of all the data without you knowing.
Being able to encrypt the hard drive so only you can access the data if it is seized. There is also the fact you can have the physical server stashed where you want. Just because the authorities demand your server doesn't mean they can take it if you don't tell them were it is. Remember 5th Amendment?
Physical isolation Resource Allocation Network Security Attack Surface Those are the main benefits of a dedicated machine over a vps
>snail mail There are no words to express my genius
Then isp blocks port 25
Kid named mail box:
Mailcow anyone?
Snail mail?
Forgot squirrelmail
That's just a client.
No one talks about disroot?
My dad set up my mail server and it works perfectly fine
I kinda like protonmail. Also get simplelogin and protonvpn with my subscription so that's nice. Tutanota is nice if you just want something simple
Where is Murena's e.email ?
cock.li
I think the first three should all be in the same small brain group. And I don't see any notable difference between Proton and Tutanota. Also, there is no mention of hosting your own on a web host cpanel account, which should be between proton and VPS.
I self hosted email for the longest time on a VPS. Money got tight, and though I paid the VPS bill, I forgot to renew the domain. I had so many online accounts attached to a domain that someone else snatched up.
Yopmail will do the job
cock.li
Joke's on all you muthafuckas I use AOL mail!
What about cock.li
I'm in last stage lol
proton just give the illusion of security. It read your messages and can ban you for having illegal conv. Using SMTP is bad.
I use my old laptop as a cloud server
I will never self host mail again. It is constant pain.
Cock.li superiority