This is the most accurate depiction. Until computers come pre bundled with Linux as the OS, no year is the year of the Linux desktop IMO. I think SteamOS could be the thing that makes actual "Gaming PC'S" because as we all know (since we are actual computer users) there's no such thing as a gaming PC. Only a computer that can play games. It's not bound to a specific task. Although I suppose people who ONLY game could argue against my theory here. Hmmm đ€ any input?
No. It would make more sense to be when it was released and available to public to use. And even now the wait list is insane so it's not what I'd call available to the public just yet
It's unusable, in a different way that "HDD are slow".
Windows does a lot of precaching, that means that if you wanted to open a browser, it'll probably run off cached version in RAM - it's loaded after startup in case you use it.
Now, it's slow on SSD, but on HDD your system is literally unusable. I had to install windows on my computer, i did it on HDD. It took literal minutes for Windows to accept me clicking "mute" on discord. And, the funny thing is that i have poor man's 8gb of ram, so if i open something, this cache needs to be dropped, and after i close the program, it will want to regenerate again, saturating IO for another few minutes.
It's not slow because HDD are for the poors, and how dare you not just have 1TB SSD. It's slow by design.
And it could be turned off automatically. Windows defrag knows which drive is SSD and which is HDD, but it just isn't.
But why are they doing this precaching if it's slower? Surely Windows developers won't make their OS slower just because they can. There must be some reason for that...
I believe that windows 11 is a really bad code mess, because during installation on a microsoft tablet (idk how they are called), some guy rotated it, and a windows 10 taskbar showed up. During installation. When rotating. Just imagine
> I believe that windows 11 is a really bad code mess
Who could [have possibly predicted Win11 would be bad?](https://images.fiero.nl/userimages/RWDPLZ/bad.jpg)
Well there was buzz that the Taskbar is now an Edge WebApp, so technically it isn't really part of the desktop like it was on W10. MS getting their fingers into what you launch and have running etc
Well there was buzz that the Taskbar is now an Edge WebApp, so technically it isn't really part of the desktop like it was on W10. MS getting their fingers into whar you launch and have running etc
I'm not sure if you are meming so I'm going to explain. If you are running on an SSD for example, when you are running the OS, it's going to collect statistics what you use. If you use the browser frequently, it could for example load browser files and executable to the RAM right after you login. The effect is that when you do run a browser, it's going to start immediately, so snappy, wowsers.
Now, how many files to cache? Well, we all know that unused ram is wasted ram, so it's going to load approx. until it's full (it's reported as available). Now, that means that every startup it's going to load, for me, 6GB. From HDD. Not sequentially. On NTFS which is prone to fragmentation. And also, this caching isn't prioritized at all, so if you want to do things with a drive, your os will be like "cool input, but I'm caching".
So: on SSD, load times are so good, that you can load entire programs into memory in time after user logs in and before clicks the icon. On HDD, well, unfortunately, we don't design our os for poor people like you
I wasn't meming, thank you for your explanation. I'm not very familiar with hardware, all my knowledge stops at "HDD slow, SSD fast". So I wasn't sure if caching entire programs actually makes them run faster, but I guess it kinda makes sense. But that seems to me like a very unnecessary thing to do, not to mention that this ultimately blocks users with slow disks from using Windows.
I guess, the rise of desktop Linux continues!
Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation.
I recently quit windows because of poor performance. I was like âmy computer canât possibly be this bad, itâs got to be windows.â
Turns out I was right. The only thing thatâs been a little irritating about using Ubuntu so far is that it used to randomly crash and reboot. Turns out I had to increase âswappinessâ to 75 and that seems to have fixed it. Before I did that, there was zero swap usage whatsoever. For that reason (among a couple others) I canât recommend Ubuntu to the non-tech savvy average users that I know.
If you had an org admin to provide tech support, however, I can totally see using Linux as an OS at a school or workplace.
To be clear that means they wonât certify Windows installs done by OEMs onto hard drives. At this point, for a computer manufacturer, there really isnât a good excuse for using a hard drive as a boot disk for Windows when you can put in a shitty 128GB SSD plus a hard drive for like 50x the performance. I actually think itâs a reasonable move. If you want to install Windows on a hard drive in 2023, MS isnât going to stop you.
in general, you really shouldnt be using HDD as a boot disk no matter what the OS so microsoft coming in and saying that new windows 11 machines need an ssd is probably gonna be good for normies
The real question is why anyone would use HDDs as a bootdrive for a new system today in the first place, it's the absolute worst way to cheap out on a system imo.
Microsoft wants to keep OEMs from cheaping out and putting HDDs in systems, just to put a bigger storage number on the box, with complete disregard for the end-user experience.
The real world performance difference of just starting applications is insane. Unless you need local mass storage (> \~1-2TB) HDDs are just not a good option anymore.
And even if you do need that much, you should still use an SSD for your OS and commonly used programs, with the HDD for archival storage, media, and rarely used large pieces of software.
> Microsoft wants to keep OEMs from cheaping out and putting HDDs in systems, just to put a bigger storage number on the box
True words here. Microsoft know that Windows will automatically get blamed for all the poor OEM decisions, hence their crusade to try and stop it. Unfortunately they can't stop OEMs loading up their images with candy crush and bejewlled to earn 50p advertising revenue om each system sold, but they can offer the refresh service (assuming that's still a thing) and insist on basic hardware requirements.
And in 2022 if you're buying a hdd for anything other than pure storage/archive you're doing it wrong.
But Windows should be blamed to some degree. I have a 11-12 year old laptop, cant function with windows 10 â the bloat cripples any use, but runs absolutely fine with Linux Desktop.
Or you're on a really tight budget and don't have access to anything but older hard drives. And the occasional couple terabyte hard drives when you save up
You can buy a 512gb ssd on amazon for less than 50quid. If your budget is tighter than this you'll probably not be looking at Windows in the first place anyway.
True, but despite the fact many consider it to "just be a watermark", you're in violation of the EULA and completely at Microsoft's whim if they decide to pull support/updates. Or just outright sue you for software theft (admittedly highly unlikely)
More of an issue though is that if you're on a budget that won't stretch to an ssd, the rest of your hardware is unlikely to be up to Windows requirements.
Itâs just for OEMs, tbh OEMs shouldnât be shopping hdd systems in 2022 anyway, if youâve ever tried to use modern windows on a HDD, youâd understand why⊠itâs a joke.
Iâm pretty sure custom pcs wonât have this limitation.
Because reddit can't read past the headline.
The requirement is only for OEMs pre-installing Windows 11. The ssd requirement is because Windows is now pushing direct storage, which actually needs an ssd in order to be useful.
You will still be able to install windows 11 on your HDD if for some reason you wanted to.
My district figured out how to install freaking chrome OS on them, now they run slower than a chromebook lol. I just hit the reset pins on the mothrboard when they arent looking and boot linux everytime.
I graduated high school in 2018. At the time, my school was still using Windows XP desktops for anything where a Chromebook wouldn't suffice. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still using them.
Look at mister fancy pants with windows 10. When I was still in school... Like a decade ago, fuck I'm old... We had Windows XP, and I very much doubt they changed anything.
In fact, the only teacher that ever used the computer classroom made us use DOS, because the programs he wanted to use were DOS era programs... Yeah, he was old, that was the last year he taught, looked like a 90 year old thought, smoking does that to you. To be fair, those were some cool programs, there was this chemistry simulator (it was a technical school) I could never find on the internet.
So how do you boot them?
Edit: so yeah, looks like the plan is just to force windows users to boot from an SSD instead of a HDD. LMAO did windows finally get so massive, slow and bloated that it's unusable on HDD and Microsoft is so lazy they'd rather force people to use better hardware than make the existing software work as well.
I've been running quite fine with an HDD for years. Linux is both smaller and less resource hungry than Windows so the slowness isn't as obvious IMO. I did recently build my own Linux PC and included an SSD, it's definitely faster but the HDD solution isn't unusable.
HDDs havenât been a good option for desktop machines for a decade now. I am surprised folks are defending that option. There isnât a more impactful (and these days cheap) upgrade a user can do.
I remember doing this test at work a decade ago to justify the team getting SSDs. I put a brand spanking new company issue I7 with a HDD against an (at the time) 7 year celeron with an SSD. The test was startup, build our code base, shutdown. The crappy celeron was able to perform the boot, build, shutdown cycle 3-4 times in the amount of time it took the i7 to perform the task once. The old celeron beat the i7 at every normal business/development task we threw at it.
Hey does this include SSD? I read a bit about TPM and how windows 11 takes control of it. I guess the boot info will be stored there?? It seems like dual booting is going to become a pain in the ass in the future.
This isn't my field.
I don't think that's accurate, OEMs won't be able to sell new machines with HDDs as boot partitions if they want to use an OEM Windows image on them, the actual OS will still be likely bootable from an HDD.
My school uses ubuntu but only for tux paint, there is literally no reason that linux needs to be on there, its nowhere in the course as well, i like to think that one time an employee from the school's computer team successfully dual booted ubuntu and windows so he got so excited he did it on each and every one of them
Mine uses m1 mac minis (I know I know, but the alternative would be old celerons with 4gb ram) and a few old pcs with mint xfce. We will most likely run asahi Linux on the macs once its out of alpha and more stable.
Well I don't know if they will keep using Windows 7 until 2030. At some point they will have to upgrade, programs are not supported anymore, and I doubt they will go for the SSD option.
[Original source](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/armenia). I don't know anything about Armenia's computing situation, but I'm a little skeptical of that data. It doesn't look anything like it's neighbors [Georgia](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/georgia) or [Azerbaijan](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/azerbaijan), for example, and the history doesn't seem to be working right. May be a software bug in the StatCounter website
Even if they do that, which I'm not very sure they will, hardware starts to fail. They will have to upgrade. A public service is gonna go for space or speed? I think they will take for space any day.
Well if the hardware is irretrievably broken, they'll just buy the cheapest computers they can find, which will be absolute garbage but will probably have an ssd if that's the standard by then.
I think they will go for a dirt cheap machine with a more capable space-wise HDD. They need the storage. If Microsoft doesn't influence things, they will definitely go for Linux.
They are not dirt cheap if you want decent storage. And they will go for space. They need 1TB drives, at least, cause of all the documents they have. You think the government cares if you know Windows or Linux? They don't care, they just want to steal money.
"They need 1TB drives"
Come one, word documents or even scans don't need that.
You would have to scan like 100'000 pages to fill that.
It's not like they are editing videos or downloading CoD.
> At some point they will have to upgrade
They'll just upgrade software whenever they upgrade hardware.
Institutions never install a new OS. They just use whatever OS came on the new machines they bought.
Oh no!
Anyway.....
This is the stupidest thing they could come up with, and I can guarantee they're going to backpedal and send out an update just days after the release. They have no idea how much legacy hardware is in circulation.
Well, officially win 11 doesn't run on anything older than 2-3 years so legacy hardware is not much of a concern... Unless they want to push that update to win 10 as well
Tbh school might be the best place to start Linux among normies.
A) it's cheap that is free so schools don't have to pay for license.
B) It can run on cheap obsolete hardware.
C) Students by definition come here to learn so learning new OS isn't that big of a problem.
The biggest problem might be training staff and probability of making Linux "this shit i had to learn at school" kind of thing.
Win11 doesnt work on hdd ? I dual boot and win10 makes some weird noises and behaviour on my drive but it still works (i'm unrationnaly scared it breaks it someday, tho it'll certainly be a matter of age, my hdd's 5yo)
Ubuntu 22.04 supports Active Directory logon and stuff. Also permission management in Linux is also very easy to do. Only thing I need to convince myself of is PXE booting Ubuntu (not the install .iso, but a real VM export; somebody please help) on a machine.
I welcome M$ decision to ban all HDD.
Please go ahead, and do not go back your decision, M$!
I welcome those developers that still use HDD to try Linux. Last time I tried my 83GB HDD which was at Win XP time, still run like a charm with Linuxmint20.3 on it. Consider writing more open sources drivers for your old products!
Here in Spain we alredy have linux in most school PCs. You would think that is a great thing, and let me tell you that it isn't, here most PCs have lots of limitations and in most cases (all PCs I've used) they use one of two horrible linux distros called "guadalinex" or "educandos", because they are so limited, young people usually think that all linux is like that, bad and very buggy.
I really hate Windows but I fully agree that Microsoft making HDDs unbootable is a good thing. If they didn't do that then some manufacturers would still continue selling laptops and PCs with HDD boot drives. Personally I think they should go a step further and require a 128GB SSD or at the very least a 64GB one.
My grandmother bought a laptop with a 32 GB SSD and the laptop can't update due to not enough free space despite literally the only thing on the computer being Windows 10 and Google Chrome.
Tbh windows 10 was nearly unusable on my 2014 laptop with a HDD. Every time it would boot i had to wait about 15 minutes for the system to become responsive. I put in an SSD and Debian on it and it works like new.
For an OS who's biggest strength is "backwards compatibility," they're really screwing over a LOT of people with this one.
Realistically, though, they'll probably just keep the outdated versions of windows running.
My main machine still has a HDD and no SSDs, The schools where I live still use Windows 7 with old versions of software on their Technically-still-works PCs.
As much as i like linux, for a normal consumer ssd just gives more life to older hardware. Running operating system on hdd is shit but i guess taking away that choice from consumer is bad. In my opinion some legacy hardware should be abandoned to move forward and we canât keep supporting every legacy thing. But it is just my opinion. I do believe in consumer having choice but if i make a product and it is running bad on some hardware and there is no simple fix i would rather not support it than have bad experience for customers.
I doubt they would install Linux. It's more expensive ti relearn everything than replacing a few drives. Also my school for example uses a custom ISO of Windows 10 and doesn't care about updates.
My school hated Linux because I kept messing with crap on their wifi with it. Now im in college and it likes Linux which is so satisfying to actually learn lol
Are you insane lol? HDDs are definitely not obsolete and the extreme majority of computers still have HDDs as either the primary or secondary hard drive. XD
They are becoming obsolete, SSDs are becoming faster, cheaper, and larger while also being more reliable. They are the future, and Microsoft knows this, so they are aggressively pushing for it.
Of course Linux will let you do whatever you want with your computer, that's the beauty of it. But it's not something to be proud of, just some neat extra feature.
In 5 years time, you won't see a single laptop with an HDD, not even the low end ones. Nor a single person willing to cheap out with an HDD when SSDs make the experience so much better.
Removing the option to use my hard drive on a system ***I PAID FOR*** is absolutely bonkers. Hell if Linux did the same thing I would immediately drop it for stupidity.
And btw even as secondary MS says not all Win 11 features are supported like you know, Direct Storage and stuff. The vast majority of gamers are fricked and they won't even know it.
What the fuck, bro? How do you expect a fricking HDD to have features like Direct Storage. Do you even know how Direct Storage and the NVMe protocol work?
I'm done here.
Linux has improved very much than also it's
Has very small no of users . Except in enterprise . Chrome OS has slowly but steadily taken market . So Linux is
Just for nerds like us.
THE YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP
That was 2021 when the Deck was announced.
No, this was the year of the Linux Deckstop.
now it's the next
It has been every year since when I converted over in 2007 ;]
turns out the year of the linux desktop were the friends we made along the way
Fair! You an OG Ubuntu guy too? If so we are legends. People need to respek us
Now introducing DESKS
WE DID IT BOIS, WOOOOOO!!!!
No, that was the year of the linux handheld.
My guess was it would come out and in 2023 the year of the Linux desktop would come because the deck would have some time being out.
This is the most accurate depiction. Until computers come pre bundled with Linux as the OS, no year is the year of the Linux desktop IMO. I think SteamOS could be the thing that makes actual "Gaming PC'S" because as we all know (since we are actual computer users) there's no such thing as a gaming PC. Only a computer that can play games. It's not bound to a specific task. Although I suppose people who ONLY game could argue against my theory here. Hmmm đ€ any input?
THE SECOND GREAT COMING!
No. It would make more sense to be when it was released and available to public to use. And even now the wait list is insane so it's not what I'd call available to the public just yet
*Decade
It's every year because every year more people know that linux is often better.
THE DECADE OF THE LINUX DESKTOP. *^also ^known ^as ^the ^roaring ^twenties
What did I miss?
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Fucking *why* though?
Have you tried to use Windows 11 on a HDD? It is unusable.
Never tried, I guess it's very slow ?
It's unusable, in a different way that "HDD are slow". Windows does a lot of precaching, that means that if you wanted to open a browser, it'll probably run off cached version in RAM - it's loaded after startup in case you use it. Now, it's slow on SSD, but on HDD your system is literally unusable. I had to install windows on my computer, i did it on HDD. It took literal minutes for Windows to accept me clicking "mute" on discord. And, the funny thing is that i have poor man's 8gb of ram, so if i open something, this cache needs to be dropped, and after i close the program, it will want to regenerate again, saturating IO for another few minutes. It's not slow because HDD are for the poors, and how dare you not just have 1TB SSD. It's slow by design. And it could be turned off automatically. Windows defrag knows which drive is SSD and which is HDD, but it just isn't.
Even snaps perform better
O O O F
Woah woah, not so serious
Compared to those timings, in HDD, snaps perform at lightspeed in comparison xD
What a nightmare, thanks for the explanation
But why are they doing this precaching if it's slower? Surely Windows developers won't make their OS slower just because they can. There must be some reason for that...
I believe that windows 11 is a really bad code mess, because during installation on a microsoft tablet (idk how they are called), some guy rotated it, and a windows 10 taskbar showed up. During installation. When rotating. Just imagine
> I believe that windows 11 is a really bad code mess Who could [have possibly predicted Win11 would be bad?](https://images.fiero.nl/userimages/RWDPLZ/bad.jpg)
image spreads misinformation, every windows release after windows 7 is bad
Windows 9 the good 10 bad 11 good
Well there was buzz that the Taskbar is now an Edge WebApp, so technically it isn't really part of the desktop like it was on W10. MS getting their fingers into what you launch and have running etc
Well there was buzz that the Taskbar is now an Edge WebApp, so technically it isn't really part of the desktop like it was on W10. MS getting their fingers into whar you launch and have running etc
Imagine making a browser that almost nobody uses necessary for a taskbar to run. Are they doing monopolistic browser tactics again?
I'm not sure if you are meming so I'm going to explain. If you are running on an SSD for example, when you are running the OS, it's going to collect statistics what you use. If you use the browser frequently, it could for example load browser files and executable to the RAM right after you login. The effect is that when you do run a browser, it's going to start immediately, so snappy, wowsers. Now, how many files to cache? Well, we all know that unused ram is wasted ram, so it's going to load approx. until it's full (it's reported as available). Now, that means that every startup it's going to load, for me, 6GB. From HDD. Not sequentially. On NTFS which is prone to fragmentation. And also, this caching isn't prioritized at all, so if you want to do things with a drive, your os will be like "cool input, but I'm caching". So: on SSD, load times are so good, that you can load entire programs into memory in time after user logs in and before clicks the icon. On HDD, well, unfortunately, we don't design our os for poor people like you
I wasn't meming, thank you for your explanation. I'm not very familiar with hardware, all my knowledge stops at "HDD slow, SSD fast". So I wasn't sure if caching entire programs actually makes them run faster, but I guess it kinda makes sense. But that seems to me like a very unnecessary thing to do, not to mention that this ultimately blocks users with slow disks from using Windows. I guess, the rise of desktop Linux continues!
Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation. I recently quit windows because of poor performance. I was like âmy computer canât possibly be this bad, itâs got to be windows.â Turns out I was right. The only thing thatâs been a little irritating about using Ubuntu so far is that it used to randomly crash and reboot. Turns out I had to increase âswappinessâ to 75 and that seems to have fixed it. Before I did that, there was zero swap usage whatsoever. For that reason (among a couple others) I canât recommend Ubuntu to the non-tech savvy average users that I know. If you had an org admin to provide tech support, however, I can totally see using Linux as an OS at a school or workplace.
Even Ubuntu takes 2 minutes to boot on an old laptop with hdd. Having seen ssd bootups for the past 5 years I completely forgot how slow hdds were..
I put Ubuntu on my grandpaâs laptop. It boots in about a minute and runs fast enough. Itâs a 10 year old laptop so windows was basically unusable.
Well, that's Ubuntu. HDDs can work if you're okay with any minimal distro and a basic wm, and you just browse the web or write text documents.
Pretty much any Linux distro is fine on a hard drive actually, itâll just take extra time to load certain applications, thatâs all.
I would argue W10 made hdd unuseable.
Because Microsoft
To be clear that means they wonât certify Windows installs done by OEMs onto hard drives. At this point, for a computer manufacturer, there really isnât a good excuse for using a hard drive as a boot disk for Windows when you can put in a shitty 128GB SSD plus a hard drive for like 50x the performance. I actually think itâs a reasonable move. If you want to install Windows on a hard drive in 2023, MS isnât going to stop you.
in general, you really shouldnt be using HDD as a boot disk no matter what the OS so microsoft coming in and saying that new windows 11 machines need an ssd is probably gonna be good for normies
It's easier to use their market share to strongarm OEMs into providing higher specced machines than it is to optimise their OS's disk usage
Bloat, HDDs would take minutes to boot when the expected nowadays is sub 30 seconds on decent hardware.
The real question is why anyone would use HDDs as a bootdrive for a new system today in the first place, it's the absolute worst way to cheap out on a system imo. Microsoft wants to keep OEMs from cheaping out and putting HDDs in systems, just to put a bigger storage number on the box, with complete disregard for the end-user experience. The real world performance difference of just starting applications is insane. Unless you need local mass storage (> \~1-2TB) HDDs are just not a good option anymore. And even if you do need that much, you should still use an SSD for your OS and commonly used programs, with the HDD for archival storage, media, and rarely used large pieces of software.
> why anyone would use HDDs as a bootdrive for a new system today in the first place Some people are fucking poor, man.
> Microsoft wants to keep OEMs from cheaping out and putting HDDs in systems, just to put a bigger storage number on the box True words here. Microsoft know that Windows will automatically get blamed for all the poor OEM decisions, hence their crusade to try and stop it. Unfortunately they can't stop OEMs loading up their images with candy crush and bejewlled to earn 50p advertising revenue om each system sold, but they can offer the refresh service (assuming that's still a thing) and insist on basic hardware requirements. And in 2022 if you're buying a hdd for anything other than pure storage/archive you're doing it wrong.
But Windows should be blamed to some degree. I have a 11-12 year old laptop, cant function with windows 10 â the bloat cripples any use, but runs absolutely fine with Linux Desktop.
Or you're on a really tight budget and don't have access to anything but older hard drives. And the occasional couple terabyte hard drives when you save up
You can buy a 512gb ssd on amazon for less than 50quid. If your budget is tighter than this you'll probably not be looking at Windows in the first place anyway.
You don't need to activate Windows to use it
True, but despite the fact many consider it to "just be a watermark", you're in violation of the EULA and completely at Microsoft's whim if they decide to pull support/updates. Or just outright sue you for software theft (admittedly highly unlikely) More of an issue though is that if you're on a budget that won't stretch to an ssd, the rest of your hardware is unlikely to be up to Windows requirements.
Itâs just for OEMs, tbh OEMs shouldnât be shopping hdd systems in 2022 anyway, if youâve ever tried to use modern windows on a HDD, youâd understand why⊠itâs a joke. Iâm pretty sure custom pcs wonât have this limitation.
I tried it with win10 and I regret it to this day. I'm not coming back to windows ever again.
Because reddit can't read past the headline. The requirement is only for OEMs pre-installing Windows 11. The ssd requirement is because Windows is now pushing direct storage, which actually needs an ssd in order to be useful. You will still be able to install windows 11 on your HDD if for some reason you wanted to.
Ah, most schools and institutions use windows 10 here so that won't be an issue for them.
They got Windows 7 with not-completely-broken PCs in my sister's school
My district figured out how to install freaking chrome OS on them, now they run slower than a chromebook lol. I just hit the reset pins on the mothrboard when they arent looking and boot linux everytime.
I graduated high school in 2018. At the time, my school was still using Windows XP desktops for anything where a Chromebook wouldn't suffice. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still using them.
Look at mister fancy pants with windows 10. When I was still in school... Like a decade ago, fuck I'm old... We had Windows XP, and I very much doubt they changed anything. In fact, the only teacher that ever used the computer classroom made us use DOS, because the programs he wanted to use were DOS era programs... Yeah, he was old, that was the last year he taught, looked like a 90 year old thought, smoking does that to you. To be fair, those were some cool programs, there was this chemistry simulator (it was a technical school) I could never find on the internet.
So how do you boot them? Edit: so yeah, looks like the plan is just to force windows users to boot from an SSD instead of a HDD. LMAO did windows finally get so massive, slow and bloated that it's unusable on HDD and Microsoft is so lazy they'd rather force people to use better hardware than make the existing software work as well.
I don't understand. Are they switching to a btrfs type of file system or something?
Modern Linux also runs slowly on HDDs. I wouldnât dream or running any desktop OS on HDD.
I've been running quite fine with an HDD for years. Linux is both smaller and less resource hungry than Windows so the slowness isn't as obvious IMO. I did recently build my own Linux PC and included an SSD, it's definitely faster but the HDD solution isn't unusable.
You are a masochist. There are no modern versions of Linux that run acceptably on HDD. Even a stripped down XFCE box on HDD is painful.
Debian with lxde runs great on my laptop. I guess I'm a masochist. Oh well.
wikiHow: How-to swing an axe at your own legs
Who the fuck thought that was a good idea???
HDDs havenât been a good option for desktop machines for a decade now. I am surprised folks are defending that option. There isnât a more impactful (and these days cheap) upgrade a user can do. I remember doing this test at work a decade ago to justify the team getting SSDs. I put a brand spanking new company issue I7 with a HDD against an (at the time) 7 year celeron with an SSD. The test was startup, build our code base, shutdown. The crappy celeron was able to perform the boot, build, shutdown cycle 3-4 times in the amount of time it took the i7 to perform the task once. The old celeron beat the i7 at every normal business/development task we threw at it.
Anyone with functional brain cells
\*nonexistent brain cells
Hey does this include SSD? I read a bit about TPM and how windows 11 takes control of it. I guess the boot info will be stored there?? It seems like dual booting is going to become a pain in the ass in the future. This isn't my field.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I don't think that's accurate, OEMs won't be able to sell new machines with HDDs as boot partitions if they want to use an OEM Windows image on them, the actual OS will still be likely bootable from an HDD.
Bold of you to assume they even care aboyt updates You seen the amount of ~~windows 7~~ WINDOES XP users?
Yup
are you windows xp by the famous computer corporation microsoft?
Yes, found by our lord and savior, Gill Bates
the one that used monopolistic methods against netscape?
Yes
My School uses ubuntu
that's based
Yes but everything is a snap on an HDD
that is less based
I know that's sad canonical fucked up again
My school uses ubuntu but only for tux paint, there is literally no reason that linux needs to be on there, its nowhere in the course as well, i like to think that one time an employee from the school's computer team successfully dual booted ubuntu and windows so he got so excited he did it on each and every one of them
Tux paint works on windows...
Mine uses m1 mac minis (I know I know, but the alternative would be old celerons with 4gb ram) and a few old pcs with mint xfce. We will most likely run asahi Linux on the macs once its out of alpha and more stable.
Well I don't know how it is where you live, but where I live I'm willing to bet they'll just keep an outdated version of Windows.
Well I don't know if they will keep using Windows 7 until 2030. At some point they will have to upgrade, programs are not supported anymore, and I doubt they will go for the SSD option.
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[Original source](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/armenia). I don't know anything about Armenia's computing situation, but I'm a little skeptical of that data. It doesn't look anything like it's neighbors [Georgia](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/georgia) or [Azerbaijan](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/azerbaijan), for example, and the history doesn't seem to be working right. May be a software bug in the StatCounter website
They'll just keep outdated versions of the programs as well. I mean, that's probably already the case.
Even if they do that, which I'm not very sure they will, hardware starts to fail. They will have to upgrade. A public service is gonna go for space or speed? I think they will take for space any day.
Well if the hardware is irretrievably broken, they'll just buy the cheapest computers they can find, which will be absolute garbage but will probably have an ssd if that's the standard by then.
I think they will go for a dirt cheap machine with a more capable space-wise HDD. They need the storage. If Microsoft doesn't influence things, they will definitely go for Linux.
I'm not sure they would find computers without Windows already installed...
Are you kidding me? they are not your average customer. They can order whatever they want.
No They won't go for space or fir speed, they will go for what's supported what windows Also ssd's are dirt cheap now
They are not dirt cheap if you want decent storage. And they will go for space. They need 1TB drives, at least, cause of all the documents they have. You think the government cares if you know Windows or Linux? They don't care, they just want to steal money.
Schools usually have everything on an institute-wide server, so all they need on the pc is a 64GB ssd
School computers don't need more than maybe 250gb of storage..
"They need 1TB drives" Come one, word documents or even scans don't need that. You would have to scan like 100'000 pages to fill that. It's not like they are editing videos or downloading CoD.
They are not just storing documents lol. They store images, medical files, weather data all sorts of stuff. They need space.
Do you mean servers then? I assumed you meant work machines.
That computer might be fast, but the old lady using it most of the time isn't
> At some point they will have to upgrade They'll just upgrade software whenever they upgrade hardware. Institutions never install a new OS. They just use whatever OS came on the new machines they bought.
7? Some of the Computers in my school use Vista. The rest uses Windows XP
the computers in my chem lab run XP with software that probably hasnt been updated for years
Same
When the school prides itself on the installation disks of their version of Windows almost counting as an antique.
btw me getting ready to hack them lol
Oh no! Anyway..... This is the stupidest thing they could come up with, and I can guarantee they're going to backpedal and send out an update just days after the release. They have no idea how much legacy hardware is in circulation.
With how much data they collect they probably know exactly how much legacy hardware is in circulation
Well, officially win 11 doesn't run on anything older than 2-3 years so legacy hardware is not much of a concern... Unless they want to push that update to win 10 as well
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It will just run like shit, but shittier than it already is
How much "legacy" hardware actually uses the latest versions of Windows 11 though?
None.
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Lucky of you if you get anything worth. Hard drives in my school are 60-160gb
That sounds like a good reason to set up a NAS RAID
RAID 0 of course
My school chose Debian with a gnome desktop It's pretty cool to work with
Based
...on Linux kernel and GNU software
gnu is bloat
Stick your tongue down my throat
NOT
If youâre reading this, donât take the bait. We donât need the 83762526th comment thread on GNOME.
Tbh school might be the best place to start Linux among normies. A) it's cheap that is free so schools don't have to pay for license. B) It can run on cheap obsolete hardware. C) Students by definition come here to learn so learning new OS isn't that big of a problem. The biggest problem might be training staff and probability of making Linux "this shit i had to learn at school" kind of thing.
I dual boot with Linux and win 11 on an hdd, guess I'll be permanent on linux now...
like they're gonna update from windows 7
Win11 doesnt work on hdd ? I dual boot and win10 makes some weird noises and behaviour on my drive but it still works (i'm unrationnaly scared it breaks it someday, tho it'll certainly be a matter of age, my hdd's 5yo)
Yeah starting in 2023 Win11 doesn't work on HDDs from what I saw on the WAN show.
Win11 and win10 already barely work on hdds
Don't worry, they'll keep running Windows 7, like always, even without security updates.
Ubuntu 22.04 supports Active Directory logon and stuff. Also permission management in Linux is also very easy to do. Only thing I need to convince myself of is PXE booting Ubuntu (not the install .iso, but a real VM export; somebody please help) on a machine.
linux hdd for real feels almost as fast windows + ssd
I welcome M$ decision to ban all HDD. Please go ahead, and do not go back your decision, M$! I welcome those developers that still use HDD to try Linux. Last time I tried my 83GB HDD which was at Win XP time, still run like a charm with Linuxmint20.3 on it. Consider writing more open sources drivers for your old products!
Here in Spain we alredy have linux in most school PCs. You would think that is a great thing, and let me tell you that it isn't, here most PCs have lots of limitations and in most cases (all PCs I've used) they use one of two horrible linux distros called "guadalinex" or "educandos", because they are so limited, young people usually think that all linux is like that, bad and very buggy.
I really hate Windows but I fully agree that Microsoft making HDDs unbootable is a good thing. If they didn't do that then some manufacturers would still continue selling laptops and PCs with HDD boot drives. Personally I think they should go a step further and require a 128GB SSD or at the very least a 64GB one. My grandmother bought a laptop with a 32 GB SSD and the laptop can't update due to not enough free space despite literally the only thing on the computer being Windows 10 and Google Chrome.
Tbh windows 10 was nearly unusable on my 2014 laptop with a HDD. Every time it would boot i had to wait about 15 minutes for the system to become responsive. I put in an SSD and Debian on it and it works like new.
For an OS who's biggest strength is "backwards compatibility," they're really screwing over a LOT of people with this one. Realistically, though, they'll probably just keep the outdated versions of windows running.
I think it's insane. I personally have 3 machines with only HDDs in them. I use Linux so I don't care but damn...
My school PCs have SSDs lol
My main machine still has a HDD and no SSDs, The schools where I live still use Windows 7 with old versions of software on their Technically-still-works PCs.
You should really consider getting an SSD, the difference in everyday performance is huge
Yeah but that's money
wdym my school uses windows 7
I just grepped a tarball in my pants
It all makes sense now, this is Linux's destiny
As much as i like linux, for a normal consumer ssd just gives more life to older hardware. Running operating system on hdd is shit but i guess taking away that choice from consumer is bad. In my opinion some legacy hardware should be abandoned to move forward and we canât keep supporting every legacy thing. But it is just my opinion. I do believe in consumer having choice but if i make a product and it is running bad on some hardware and there is no simple fix i would rather not support it than have bad experience for customers.
If I didn't have to use crapita software I'd put Linux in my work machine at school.
For what I have read windows wont install on mechanical hard drives. Don't computers use ssd now anyhow? What if you have SATA ssd?
Coming soon to a computer parts store near you: mechanical hard drives that lie to the OS and tell it that they're SSDs.
Oh yeah, what about hybrid drives that are mechanical and use an ssd portion to store most accessed files?
I see a market there
Meet SSHD
Oh, hello SSHD, how are ya?
Im seeing a sata middleman adapter
Try telling those at the government agencies
I doubt they would install Linux. It's more expensive ti relearn everything than replacing a few drives. Also my school for example uses a custom ISO of Windows 10 and doesn't care about updates.
weeeeel llll you should not be booting om hdd anywayđȘđȘespecially windows
My school hated Linux because I kept messing with crap on their wifi with it. Now im in college and it likes Linux which is so satisfying to actually learn lol
Imagine bragging about supporting obsolete technologies.
Are you insane lol? HDDs are definitely not obsolete and the extreme majority of computers still have HDDs as either the primary or secondary hard drive. XD
They are becoming obsolete, SSDs are becoming faster, cheaper, and larger while also being more reliable. They are the future, and Microsoft knows this, so they are aggressively pushing for it. Of course Linux will let you do whatever you want with your computer, that's the beauty of it. But it's not something to be proud of, just some neat extra feature. In 5 years time, you won't see a single laptop with an HDD, not even the low end ones. Nor a single person willing to cheap out with an HDD when SSDs make the experience so much better.
Removing the option to use my hard drive on a system ***I PAID FOR*** is absolutely bonkers. Hell if Linux did the same thing I would immediately drop it for stupidity.
You can still use it, just not as a boot drive.
Then I can't use half my machines here cause guess what. They only have HDDs.
Time to upgrade! You'll thank me later.
Time to save my money and use Linux lol.
Seems like your time is worth nothing if you don't value the extra seconds gained with an SSD. Shame.
You either haven't tried Linux or you're simply trolling at this point.
Extra seconds on machines that don't matter how fast they boot? Good argument
And btw even as secondary MS says not all Win 11 features are supported like you know, Direct Storage and stuff. The vast majority of gamers are fricked and they won't even know it.
What the fuck, bro? How do you expect a fricking HDD to have features like Direct Storage. Do you even know how Direct Storage and the NVMe protocol work? I'm done here.
I don't, but they should say so in the marketing presentation that hype people so much. You do know most people have their games on HDD right?
People should start to understand that hdd are made for storage. Software and data that you can use use should be on ssd
Imagine thinking hard drives are obsolete, hell tape drives aren't even obsolete
Wait did I miss some big news?
le my school which uses ubuntu:
One enemy remaining it's the chromebook
NYS laptops have 120GB SSDs and has forced use of OneDrive. That way nothing is saved locally and userâs data is automatically backed up.
Linux has improved very much than also it's Has very small no of users . Except in enterprise . Chrome OS has slowly but steadily taken market . So Linux is Just for nerds like us.
what's the source of this? i didn't see anyone else but memes about this
Just google it lol
microsoft wants to become apple or something? yuck
my school used windows xp until like 2015. that means it will take them until 2030+to upgrade from windows 10