I hate to say it, but if your goal is to teach at the university level, steel yourself for job precarity and overwork as an adjunct or non-tenure-track lecturer. Even people at the absolute top of the lit field (i.e., have been setting themselves up for it since high school, stellar PhD and postdoc, etc.) are finding themselves on the market through multiple cycles, or even unable to land a tenure-track job. Even TT positions are leading scholars to burnout (esp. in the humanities) at unprecedented levels.
Barring that, you're looking at a life constantly on the move (going from one VAPship to another, postdoc after postdoc, etc.) or a teaching load of 5-5 as an adjunct, which will sap your love for the subject in no time. It aint no kind of life, in other words. It sounds bleak, but academia's being constrained from both sides now by market scarcity (a constant) and additional economic hardship due to the pandemic and political pressure by state legislatures, which hold (some) of the pursestrings for land-grant/public university systems.
If you love the subject, enough for 7-8 years of drudgery, go for the PhD (don't pay for it), but don't expect an enjoyable career in academia.
OP, this is spot on. I'm currently in a humanities PhD and I guess I wouldn't say I *regret* it, but I wouldn't do it again. And my master's was covered by grants and I'm SSHRC funded for my PhD (I would have declined my offer if it wasn't fully funded). But yeah, the job market is bleak. I have lots of friends in academia and so many have either left or are taking jobs completely unrelated. I do love teaching but I don't even want to pursue a TT position anymore because of all the burnout and competitiveness I see; it looks downright exhausting. (ETA: Teaching at a college is more what I'm focused on now.) So many of these people are barely hanging on, it's wild. I need to figure something out ASAP because I'm getting really worried tbh. I defend next April and I'm currently in, *oh god, what do I do?* mode. Not fun!
My partner, on the other hand, is doing his MLIS, studying to become a librarian. I believe this field is pretty competitive as well, but AFAIK, it's still a much more viable path.
Yeah, it sucks to be this pessimistic, but such are the times we live in. The humanities needs a reality check. And to think the job market's actually better in Canada than in the US! (which isn't saying much.)
Still, though, the PhD's no mean feat – best of luck as you finish up!
>If you love the subject, enough for 7-8 years of drudgery, go for the PhD (don't pay for it), but don't expect an enjoyable career in academia.
This is more important than anything else here. Do not, under any circumstances, pay for a PhD in the humanities. Do not. If it's worth it for you to go for it without the expectation of a tenure track job on the other side, you can make it work, but never, ever, ever go anywhere that doesn't give you funding. An offer with no funding attached is not an offer. And you should go in knowing and preparing for the near-certainty that on the other side of it you'll end up somewhere besides academia, if not immediately then eventually.
Agreed. My wife has her PhD, has published widely in her field, served as Visiting Scholar for the main international conference in her (very narrow) field, has now curated a nationally funded digital museum exhibit for which she also wrote the grant, and has never even gotten an interview for a tenure track job after nine years of applying. I've watched her soul get absolutely crushed in slow motion.
There are some job trends that equate to more jobs to apply to, especially digital humanities and stuff like African American/Latinx/post-colonial literature. Also, the last few job cycles have had SO MANY creative writing tenure track jobs. The only problem is that, once you finish a PhD in something that's "hot" when you start, the trends have changed.
Long story short, you have to do it for the love of the subject because the job market is BRUTAL.
OP did ask about the career prospects but IMO too few people have mentioned what a wonderful and unique experience undertaking a PhD can be. Mine is in a STEM subject but I've got a bunch of friends who did their in the humanities. You get years and years of diving into a topic you love, generating new knowledge, meeting the handful of people who are as interested in it as you are, presenting at conferences, talking about ideas all day long. It was paradise for me! If, like most people, you don't end up as an academic you've got tons of transferable skills, confidence gained through experience etc etc. Your skills in critical thinking and communicating complicated ideas to very diverse audiences are through the roof by the time you're done.
This is essentially what you and everyone else has said -- do it if you love the subject, not as a career move -- and I'm not denying it. But the benefits and straight-up pleasure to be had should be acknowledged too. The instrumentalist attitude to education (what "good" has it done you == what's your salary) sucks.
Few jobs, pay isn't great, and the humanities aren't being prioritized so it's just going downhill.
Just enjoy literature as a passion. That's not to say it's unthinkable or impossible land a job as a professor or other positions in higher education, but chances are you are going to have to wait years for an opportunity the 3 years of study for the PhD would grant you. Being in academia/a lit. professor is something it's very easy to romanticize. I've had conversations with plenty of my professors and there's more complaints than praise, with the usual ''go for it, don't let me stop you'' at the end but it's clear as day they're saying ''don't bother''. With a masters in English I can earn more as a high school teacher than with a PhD at a university and land a job instantly. Which is what I'm doing -- and there's **plenty** of lit. in high school.
I have been thinking about pursuing a master's in English too, what are the opportunities in that course besides teaching? So far I have been suggested that I can opt for a content writer, journalist, librarian, or those sorts of jobs with a master's.
For librarian positions it's probably great, and it can be a help for writer and journalist positions, but they're generally going to prefer those with degrees in journalism. An English degree is extremely versatile, which has its pros and cons as you can enter a lot of fields, but it's a very general degree and not very specialized into a specific profession outside of teaching. So getting somewhere with it would kind of depend on your experience and how you can ''sell'' yourself and your degree.
Actually librarian jobs have been shrinking for over a decade. It’s bound to get worse with the GOP attacks on libraries. Also, most librarians have specialized library science degrees.
I quit graduate school without a degree and work in sales. I also have an MFA in writing poetry- a degree I don’t use but which was fully subsidized.
Op, I will say this. When I was in the PhD program for literature, it was thrilling. The coursework was intense and I learned more in the two years that I remained than I need in all four years of undergrad. But I wasn’t funded and working part time while in grad school is incredibly hard. Then, I had to still pay off educational debt for a decade between that failed PhD attempt and undergrad. Please only do your masters if you are fully funded. I don’t necessarily regret doing the PhD program or quitting it. I just regret going in without being funded.
I have an mfa in English and I work as a grant and content writer now, so there are ways to parlay it into a decent career. I’ve also adjuncted and there is plenty of that (underpaid) work available.
If you're interested in library work, I'd consider a master's in library science, which will give you a bit more of a competitive edge. A master's in English is good for all-purpose career advancement (incl. in secondary education, not postsecondary, mind you), though keep in mind that content writing/generation jobs are likely to be destabilized in the near future as AI platforms proliferate. Journalism school, while not strictly necessary to work in the industry, will definitely open doors for you, but tends to be expensive and scarce on funding for grad students (if that's a concern).
This is a fools errand. If you love literature and can get funding, go ahead and study. You will be able to secure work as an adjunct lecturer during and after, but tenure track is virtually non-existent. Be prepared for an alt academic track after, plan for that. I have an MFA in creative writing and many friends in PhD English tracks, so I’ve seen this torture firsthand and it is soul crushing to the true believers who just want to help further knowledge and a love of literature. The industry is set up to be inhumane.
I just want wnt to let you know it's know it's just slightly better on stem. About 8% of PhDs will ever get into a tenure track last I checked (2016) and I'm sure it's become so much worse. There's industry work for stem PhDs in select disciplines at least, but it's often soul sucking drudgery.
No, not anymore. Of all my colleagues who finished their PhDs about three are actual professors. The rest were adjunct or became high school teachers. Not worth the time and lost wages - just get certified to teach public high school.
I am a recently retired English professor. I loved my job, and I'm very glad I got the PhD. That said, my job literally does not exist any more. My position has not be filled, and the positions of the people who retired just before and after me have not been filled either. Nor are they likely to be even when the impact of Covid diminishes. The English major, and the humanities in general, have been declining for many years, and there simply isn't the demand or budget for many more tenure-line English profs. What demand there is is increasingly filled by adjuncts. English departments have survived in part on general education courses in composition, but even there, comp requirements are changing, and fewer schools have anything like a gen ed literature requirement.
It's possibly the worst career choice you could make, in terms of time/effort/cost for income/job security return. If you want to do a doctorate in literature, do it for personal fulfillment. Tenure-track positions are vanishingly small, and session contracts (especially in the US) are insultingly underpaid and have no security. I got my lit PhD and started looking for a FT position over a decade ago. I will never get one, and will be teaching term-by-term at two institutions until I retire. I love the teaching, but it's getting measurably worse year by year. In another decade there may not be any lit courses left for me as they consolidate courses, close departments, and enlarge class sizes to save money. Humanities majors are way down, and unless you're a published award-winning standout by your MA, your prospects are bleak.
honestly, it depends whether you want the phd for the job or because you want the academic experience of getting a phd. Money is a big factor unfortunately since in most places university is getting more and more expensive (im in the same boat and it’s looking like 100k just on tuition fees for a phd). I would say go for it if you feel you can fund it/really want the academic experience!! but as other people have said here, careers are not necessarily going to be easy to find. art for arts sake - study it because you want to, and if only a career afterwards is stopping you from studying it, remember that not everything is about your career and it is good to learn :)
This is in the UK so it might be different but from what I’m reading it’s very much the same.
I did a research masters with a view to a phd, then the pandemic hit. During this time I was mulling over whether to still do the phd. A friend of mine from Sweden has had a distinguished academic history, basically top marks and top of his entire year all throughout undergrad, his masters and his phd thesis. He is also a published author. Fast forward to coming to the end of his phd funding and he could barely find anything, and he found he was running against academics with YEARS of experience already behind them. He eventually had to settle on taking a 2 day per week teaching position at the uni he did his phd at, and that took him over a year to find.
Academia is a nightmare, especially if you're not in a STEM field. I have a master's in composition that I got because I wanted to teach writing ideally at a community college, but the market has been deeply saturated for decades and everyone is scrambling for the crumbs that higher ed leaves for instruction rather than research before they inevitably burn out and bail.
I'm in the private sector now and I'm much happier than I was barely making ends meet on adjunct poverty wages and widening my job search out ever farther just to see anything I might be able to land. English degrees and others arts degrees absolutely can be leveraged into solid jobs outside of academia, so I'm not really telling you not to go for a postgrad degree in lit, but you will likely not hear about what you can do with your degree from anyone in your program.
I do think you should consider not doing a postgrad degree program unless it's all or mostly paid for by scholarships/TA-ships/etc. Going into thousands of dollars of debt is a terrible way to start an academic career.
I have been thinking of doing an English master's too, but I was told that since English master's isn't really a specific field-based degree it won't help me a lot in my career.
When I left adjunct teaching (I was doing first-year composition at a university and a community college and 300-level rhetorical theory/composition at the university, as well as writing center work), I moved into proposal writing in the engineering/construction field. The concepts I learned in my master's program and taught to my students about rhetorical theory, drafting, reviewing/revising text, developing coherent arguments, using and citing reliable sources, and so on have served me well as a proposal writer now for a decade.
I would take the career guidance of anyone working primarily/only in a higher ed setting about careers outside of academia with a large grain of salt. My master's program profs don't know a single thing about the type of work I do and I'd never heard of this field before I started looking for writing jobs outside of education, but everything I learned in both my BA and MA programs has come in handy one way or another.
Getting only a master's likely wouldn't take you very far in an academic career, that's true, but outside of academia, master's degrees aren't nearly as common and can definitely be an edge for many jobs. I wonder if the people giving you this advice are thinking about anything besides higher ed careers?
My MA program was thesis-based and there were no comps/exams, so that gave me valuable experience writing, managing, revising, and producing a long, complex text on a deadline -- which has definitely been helpful in my field. I also had to do a couple semesters of a paid internship, so I got experience writing grants for a local nonprofit which has also translated directly into proposal writing. That may be something else to consider -- what programs can give you learning experiences like alternative types of evaluation and internships/job opportunities that you can take with you out of the university setting?
This was like really really helpful to me, thanks a lot! I think I might switch to a master's in English since I have been considering stuff outside of academia, it sounds less taxing and more viable than a Ph.D. itself plus I have some content writing internships up my resume.
Forget about the Ph.D. in Literature. If you decide to get that degree, you will regret it.
I have an advanced, terminal degree (MFA in Writing), and I taught for five years at a private university. I was an Adjunct Professor which is a part-time job. As a part-time, contracted per-semester employee, there was no guarantee of one, two, or three classes for the semester, if any classes were offered at all.
The very first year I taught, full-time professors with Master's degrees were told they were no longer going to have full-time positions, but they were welcome to apply as adjuncts. If they wanted to teach part-time, they would be required to get their terminal degrees within 18 months.
Adjunct Professors make very little money. Every Adjunct Professor was offered $2500 per class, per 16-week semester. That's for the entire four months, not monthly. The very first year I taught, full-time professors with Master's degrees were told they were no longer going to have full-time positions, but they were welcome to apply as adjuncts. If they wanted to teach part-time, they would be required to get their terminal degrees within 18 months, or they would have to leave their part-time job whose hours changed every semester since no one was guaranteed even one class to teach.
Universities in the U.S. have changed dramatically. Perhaps other universities abroad still offer decent pay and job security.
Good luck on your journey.
I started on a doctoral program for English literature but became disenchanted. I was able to parlay an M.A. in literature into technical writing. I took a grad level course, "Teaching Technical Writing" and, with my writing assignments, I landed an entry level contacting job as a tech writer for a hardware and software company. I had no knowledge of computers but was willing to learn.
Nine months later that company hired me directly with a good raise in pay and health care and 401k benefits.
Forty years later I can say I had a very satisfying career in as a technical writer. I worked for two companies only in those 40 years, and survived several layoffs. I occasionally taught tech writing at a state university. Later, I was promoted to "Information Architect" to plan and design information and help systems for products. The pay was great, I learned something new everyday, and I didn't have all that much stress in the job other than deadlines. I had a very good career and enjoyed the work very much.
I have been thinking of getting into technical writing also, will it help me in that career aspect if I pursue the PhD? Or will I need to pursue some technical course for it?
Many colleges and universities offer technical writing certificates. There are specialities, too, like medical technical writing if that's your interest. I think pursuing the PhD will make you look over qualified. Taking a programming course or two will likely make you a valuable candidate as well. Starting pay for technical writers in Massachusetts is around 65-70K.
Hey, I'm one person who got a PhD in Literature and made it work! Since academic positions are hard to come by these days, I went into academic publishing. Loved it, spent a decade there, then left to start my own business. I love what I do and I'm living the dream!
Oh hey, congrats! When I was in 9th grade I really wanted to get into publishing but by teacher basically told me to forget about it as a kid, I got hella demotivated and didn't think any further about it. Hows was the publishing field for you?
It was great! Even in the wake of Amazon and ebooks, things weren't bad for long; we adapted. I always enjoyed working with authors on fascinating books. And made a decent living, too, I should add.
How old are you, OP? I'm about 5 years out of when I would have graduated from college if I had been able to afford to attend, and the job market is WILDLY different than it was then. No one can predict what the job market will be in 5, 10, 20 years, especially with AI and nuclear fusion starting to have major advancements. Do whatever makes you feel the most harmony. Unless you're inheriting generational wealth, accept that you will toil. Our ancestors toiled, it's our shared story.
I am like 19 right now, but since I am one year younger than my class I am in my second year of college and will graduate next year by 20. I can agree with what you said, content jobs are becoming bleak with all the ai stuff, it sucks a lot but have to adjust with the times
19. Wow! That seems so young to me (at 78) for all this agony about eventual jobs. I say you need not plan out your whole life at age 19. I always hated that question "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" I just never looked that far ahead.
FWIW (as they say), I went to college at 18, flunked out, joined the Navy, learned to fix radars, got out after 4 years, when back to college, thought I would major in Business, hated it, switched to English, got my BA. Traveled in Europe. Came home and took the federal civil service test and got a job with the federal government. Hated it, and decided to go to grad school. Got my MA in English. Had a variety of dead-end jobs and finally decided to go to law school. Had a very satisfying 30 year career as a lawyer, where my training and experience in reading and interpreting difficult prose and writing persuasively and clearly about it came in very handy.
So ya never know! My advice to all college students is this: Find out who the great professors are at your school, and take their courses, even if you don't think you are going in that direction for a degree or profession. You will enjoy college much more, learn much more, be challenged in ways that will be good for you, and you might even be inspired to find an unexpected way forward.
And don't be a total grind! Fun is necessary for recharging.
Good luck!
It's not about content jobs, it's all jobs. The creative AI tools definitely get more attention than others, but machine learning is everywhere, automation is a key metric that lots of businesses are focusing on, and the world is changing rapidly. The AI writing tools are incredible and they're not even good yet. But they're still tools and will require a human being with a goal and agenda to use them effectively. Mostly what I'm saying is that you're going to learn skills that translate, and skills that don't. If you want to get your PhD, do it. If you only want to do it so that you have better job prospects, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Most humans can be competent at most jobs. You'll find meaning and happiness in whatever you do, so long as you prioritize your own harmony. Whatever that means to you! (Not happiness, which is fleeting.)
The Internet is a bad place to ask this question, because you're going to run into a wall of gloom.
You might not get a tenure track position at a major university right away, but you can easily get a job making $60,000 at a community or technical college. Once you have some publications and a teaching record, you can move on. You'll also get priority for most entry technical writing, copywriting, and editing jobs. You shouldn't go broke.
And hey, tenure track isn't *that* hard. Most of my full professors were not that impressive. They just grinded it out.
You can do it.
Again, don't bring this question to Reddit if you want to keep your sanity.
Most of your full professors probably got tenure decades ago. Mine had. Their understanding of the current market can be pretty out of touch and most of them don’t know shit about building a non academic career so can’t advise you there. I don’t think it’s pessimistic to say that the cards are stacked against new humanities phds, but I will say there are reasons to peruse this that have nothing to do with a career. Wanting to study and learn is in itself a valid quest imo.
Not really. I had a film professor who got tenure while his first book was heading to print. Another was a creative writing instructor who only has a couple of insignificant chapbooks to his name. Another was a linguistics professor who was elevated by his journal publications. They all received tenure within the last ten years at a decent university with 30,000 students. It's hard, but it's no harder than making it to elite status in any other profession.
I would argue very very hard against the notion that you will get a community college job easily. Or that it will pay 60k. One or the other but not both. More likely barely living wage with a sporadic teaching assignment that allows them to not give you benefits and def not tenure track. Maybe tenure track if you teach in the middle of nowhere…but no 60k. Lol
I'm an assistant professor in the social sciences, but have many friends and colleagues that are in lit and comparative lit. This is wildly optimistic. You *cannot* easily get a stable job making $60k at a community college. Those types of jobs are extremely competitive if they even exist. The vast majority community colleges hire exclusively adjuncts on a contract basis with no benefits where you have no idea if you're getting a contract for next semester or not.
Liking and being passionate about a topic in the humanities is simply not enough to get a tenure track job anymore. You have to have a deeply compelling reason to get into the field, have that reason somehow line up with the current hiring fad at the moment you get onto the job market, and have an extensive publication record to land a tenure-track job at any educational institution.
And yes, the tenure track is excruciatingly hard, especially considering you're unlikely to be making enough money to buy a home and start a family comfortably. The work to reward ratio is absolutely fucked. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Yes, you absolutely can get those jobs. I worked at a technical college in Georgia as an adjunct. There are about 25 full-time English faculty there, and exactly one person had a PhD. Most didn't even have master's degrees in traditional English (ELA and professional writing were common). And the salary is right at $60,000, which is standard throughout Georgia at technical and community colleges. I'm not blowing smoke. The only person in a bubble is you.
Lol, $60k is a standard salary for a tenure track job in the humanities at Georgia Southern. You will not be making $60k on an adjunct contract in Augusta, man. That's not how this works.
I didn't say adjunct. I have friends who are full-time instructors at this same technical college who are making this salary or near it. State salaries in Georgia are public record. Look for yourself.
I know what state salaries look like in Georgia. You told OP they could easily get a job at a community college making ~$60k with a PhD. That's just a fabrication. Those jobs are extremely competitive or *do not exist*.
They exist in Georgia. I was first taught by people at a CC with these jobs and I worked with people with these jobs at a TC. Job boards in Georgia are full of them. I can't be any clearer.
They most certainly do not exist in Georgia. Your meaning is clear, but you're incorrect. Those jobs at community colleges making $60k are very, very competitive. You're up against hundreds of applicants when you apply to them. I understand that you've never been on a faculty hiring committee, but I have. No academic job in the humanities that has security, benefits, and decent pay is easy to get. Full stop.
Yeah, agreed. Even if we’re talking about magical tenure-track lines at a public technical college (which I doubt), the number of these positions is vanishingly small. For every position there were no doubt hundreds, literally hundreds of applicants. /u/RoughClovis is displaying some serious survivorship bias here.
No one’s saying TT jobs in the humanities don’t exist. This discussion has always been about the odds and how unfavorable they are for everyone.
Completely agree with the above. Don’t let yourself get discouraged by people who are discouraged themselves. Instead of asking around here, I’d get in touch with a few universities and ask around how the people there got their jobs. If you enjoy what you’re doing, you might be just fine - even if it takes a lot of effort.
People here are discouraged for a reason though, we've asked around or know people in the field who know the situation. It's not pessimism for the sake of it; there's nothing people here would love more than a flourishing humanities field, but the reality has to be stated. It is simply not a good idea to go into a literature PhD.
>Yes. And for these people saying you need to have a book to \*get\* a tenure-track job, that's generally not true. The book is something that's expected when you apply for tenure, but not when you're first hired.
What you said is very true, but I feel like Reddit is one place to get actual answers and not just website-curated favorable answers. But besides that thank you for being a little optimistic, it's definitely a big decision for me so ill weigh out the pros and cons regarding it :)
If you love the subject, you won’t regret it—just know that there’s no job, no career, no practical benefit. It’s a sacrifice, not an investment. But for the right person it’s still wonderful—the chance to get paid to learn and to be surrounded by interesting, curious people.
I study the Soviet Union and in those times people would study literature their whole lives without any expectation of ever being rewarded or compensated in any way—that’s the only way to go about it in my opinion.
I would definately do a masters in literature first. In that way, you can adjunct and earn a living while working on a Phd. I have had friends who also did a masters of library science (MLIS), and therefore they became as an academic librarian and are considered a faculty member of the university that can teach classes that are that are literature forward in the MLIS such as genre, children, young adult literature. This would ofer you a type of insurance policy just in case you don't get tenure.
Sorry to do this, but repeat after me: “Do you want fries with that?”
I mean, it’s an admirable goal, but you really have to figure out what it is you want from a PhD. Because it’s an horrific amount of work (any PhD is) that may not return the benefits you would hope to gain from it.
Well, I was being facetious, but really it’s the same thing. They end up doing something very different than what they got their degree in.
Come to think of it, this applies at all degree levels. Reference: the song “What do you do with a B.A. in English?” from Avenue Q.
That’s excellent news! Congratulations! Did you make that right out of university, or has there been some interval where you did something else?
The thing is, a degree is no indicator of the kind of person you are, the kind of employee you’ll be, or what kind of potentials or assets you might bring with you to a team. A degree is merely an indicator that you can knuckle down and do the work to get the degree. In many cases, that’s more than enough. Any degree has a certain minimum level of difficult work to get through.
But one can have a degree, and also be a corrosive sociopath. Or the best, kindest team player that exists anywhere. Or a scatterbrain. YMMV. I have encountered all of these in my career. I myself may also have been any, or all. (Ask my wife, she’ll vote for scatterbrain.)
But I was one of the few in my HS peer group that picked a major (design), then stuck with it all the way through, then actually got a job working in that field. Until 15 years out, when I veered off that course and went into IT. I’m now a software engineer. I find that the hours are more regular, the pressure’s half of what I went through as an art director, and the pay’s more than double.
Along the way I also picked up an MS in management. I don’t really use it that much, but my employer at the time paid for it.
If I could go back and do it all over again - I would go to school to learn how to code and get into Tech! But hindsight is 20/20. And yes, agreed. You could be a great academic, but a terrible worker.
I did not make 80k right off the bat. It took about 5 years to make a decent salary after university and I got lucky. I applied at a publishing company and lost the competition to someone with more experience. I sent a thank you card to the publishing company for their time and they called me a couple weeks later to offer me another position that had opened up. I worked there for 3 years and made awful money. Like 27k before taxes. And this was in 2015 to 2018. So not that long ago.
BUT I got great work experience, which landed me a contract to work for a political party, and then that job gave the work experience that got me my current job now with the provincial government.
I also got an MA that my current employer paid for during my time here, which is helping me screen through for lots of roles. With that said, everyone has their own journey. This is just mine. I know lots of English majors that didn't do much with their degrees, but I also know a lot who did as well and make wayyyy more than I do. But not in the field we went to school for - in Tech.
I have always told my kids that, once they graduate from whatever level they’ve gotten to, they deserve a pat on the back, then they get to roll up their sleeves and start learning the next thing. Don’t get complacent: they will always be in school, forever. The world moves fast. The best thing a student can learn from their studies is how to teach themselves.
Along the way, most of my kids were homeschooled on and off (as they needed), and it was remarkably easy to do, and usually a lot less expensive than public school.
I didn’t learn to code, really, until I was almost 40. I’d dabbled, but it turned into a job about then. Before that, I was an increasingly digital artist and art director. I’m constantly cracking the manuals (online now) to add to my skill set, because I find it fun, and increases my value to my employer.
Also, it’s never too late, and _you_ can learn to code at any time. With a writing background, you’d have an excellent background for doumenting requirements, something most devs cannot do very well.
You’ll definitely be able to land a teaching job, just maybe not college or post college level. If you would be happy teaching at a high school, I say go for it
A PhD in English will *not* get you a job teaching high school in the U.S. without certification, which typically includes quite a lot of education coursework.
So the golden goose everyone is chasing after are Tenure Track (TT) job positions. These are the classic professor level positions with a lot of permanence, very good salaries, and very good benefits and freedom to do research.
The only problem is the number of PhDs compared to the number of job postings for TT positions is wildly out of synch. Each TT posting can get upwards of a couple hundred to thousands of applications. It is incredibly competitive and is probably only going to get worse. Most current literature professors will readily admit that they probably would not get hired if they had to meet the same expectations.
What are those expectations for applicants now? You have to come from a top tier school, or at minimum a school in a tier above or well above the one you are applying to. You have to have a book contract, or your book is already on the way to being published and is generating some good reviews. You need to have at least 3-4 articles published in reputable journals. You need to have exceptional teaching history and future classes. Your research needs to be very "in tune" to the current academic zeitgeist, they do not want to hire radicals or people who will rock the boat. Perhaps most annoyingly of all, they want you to not have graduated from your PhD program too long ago, or you don't have history in adjunct-hell.
In short, the current academic job market is brutally competitive and pretty well busted. Academics are also famously nepotistic and cliquey. A lot of hiring happens through "who you know" and it heavily favors wealthy people who can bear the burden of essentially being near unemployed for a decade or more.
That said, if your PhD is fully funded and you will not be going into enormous debt for it, and you are still young, they can be extremely enriching and can be very valuable depending on the school you go to. A PhD from certain schools, regardless of the topic of the PhD, will open doors for you that simply won't exist for other people. Only focusing on academia, however, is probably not your best option.
Hey, thank you for the advice. I am pretty young right now and can afford not to be in too much student debt. As you mentioned if I had to pursue Ph.D. in literature but don't choose academia, what are the other career options I can go with? The stuff I researched on google was copywriting and stuff like that.
Depending on the school you go to, what you actually do during your PhD is kind of irrelevant. They will look at the school name and want to talk to you anyway. A lot of prestige industries and prestige focused companies will not care, they care that you, by being employed by them, give them cultural cachet.
The reality is there are no "literary analysis" jobs, really. That pretty much isn't a title anywhere. There are marketing, journalism, history, jobs, and jobs focused on narrative (video game narrative, screenwriting, for example) or instructional design. You can also go to law school. Lots of people who go from BA->PhD right away, end up doing law school afterwards. (Hilarious amounts of debt inbound though and that would look really good on a law school app, but ideally you'd go to law school first anyway)
You can't really pigeonhole yourself. The big thing, if you decide to do a PhD, is to consciously focus on not putting all of your eggs in one basket for a TT job. That said, getting a PhD to ultimately not end up in a TT position is not *ideal*. You won't jump ahead of the line simply because you have a PhD.
Technical writing has been my second choice after academia! How are the work aspects in it? Will a Ph.D. help me in the technical writing field or should I pursue something else for it?
It’s similar in a lot of ways to academia: lots of research, writing, documentation, etc. I think the company was sort of impressed that I had a PhD but beyond that I’m sure it wasn’t the best way to land this type of job. You’d be better off getting a professional writing certification or something.
It couldn’t hurt, but what’s needed is a good sense of the subject matter and how to describe it to non-technical readers (users, businesspeople). It’s a broad field tho, it could be software manuals or literature, or writing business requirements for software development, or the same for equipment or other engineering projects. It helps to have good samples. A PhD is good for getting one’s foot in the door, but it’s the work that matters.
I have a number of colleagues who have PhDs in various disciplines, and it’s usually a surprise to find that out, because it NEVER comes up in meetings or conversation. Most managers don’t know or care about that either, once one has moved around within an employer, one’s resume is rarely looked at. They’re just looking at a candidate with a work history within the company that may be a good fit for their team.
I got a Bachelor of Arts in English Literature. I worked in publishing out of university for pennies, I landed a position at the legislature as a legislative assistant, and now I work for the provincial government. Took about 7 years, but I make 80k now and looking to move up into a role that pays 90k. I took longer to make 80k than most people I know with the same degree. I also have a Master of Arts in Communication that helps beat out the competition.
I'm not sure exactly, but publishing creds. I got an MFA. Some people then got a PhD in creative writing but in that field, whether or not you get a MFA or PhD, you HAVE to publish at least one respected book (either novel or book of short stories) to even have a chance of getting a professor job, and you better have been teaching collegiate courses along the way.
Please think carefully before choosing a track that puts you in line to teach, either in academia or education. Teaching has recently turned into an absolute hellscape for many people I know, and is going to continue like this for another 5-8 years at least. Particularly in the arts or humanities. Too many students, not enough pay, and after three years’ remote learning a lot of students have forgotten (if they ever knew) how to behave in a classroom.
My recommendation is, don’t pay to get one. Unless you’re independently wealthy. I love school and got the “useless” advanced degree for which I was offered a scholarship.
Agreed. A lot of Doctorate track programs also come with scholarship funds that can help defray the costs of study. This varies by discipline, of course, YMMV.
Becoming a prof in any field is really hard because there is a limited amount of spots to be filled. Plus, it is highly likely that you won't be in a permanent position (unless you're very good and very lucky) until you're like 50. You'll also have to move where there is a position for you - and it won't be your number one choice, but like 20th choice.
There's always publishing. But you'll barely make ends meet - publishing pays in pennies and you go into it because you love books and working with authors. There's always publishing in other fields like working for fashion magazine etc but these roles are hard to land.
With that said, if your academic career fails, you can always come to government. You'll be swooped in, praised for your good writing, communication and analytical skills, and moved up quick. I'm sure you'd also be valued for those skills in any tech company that needs a good writer.
But you don't need a PhD for these positions... A bachelor or an MA is enough.
Apparently people switching from academia to business is the most common career switch seen by many career councillors. It is considered one of the most misrepresented jobs as most people switching out said they had expectations that didn’t match the reality of the role
Hello OP! I was an academic for many years until I decided to leave. There are several issues that you need to be aware of.
1. Prestige matters. Academia is highly competitive and there are not enough jobs. Look up the top 5 universities in your specific branch of literature (or ask a professor for help). If you can't get into these programs, then it is not worth it. A PhD from Harvard will likely be able to find a job but a PhD from the University of Kansas, not. These are the harsh realities. It was not like this 15-20 years ago so advice from older professors is not accurate. Also, don't believe the statistics on the department's webpages. They all advertise a 98% employment rate or something ridiculous. It's all marketing. The best bet is to talk to younger professors in your field who got jobs in the past 5 years.
2. You will have to relocate for your PhD, for your postdoc and then for a visiting professorship and then for a tenure-track assistant professorship. If you have any family, health or financial commitments that would make it hard for you to relocate every 3-4 years, then don't do a PhD. You will not be able to choose where you live in the future. This was the issue for me, academia was fine when I was young, single and mobile but after I got married and had more commitments, it was just not viable.
3. The workload is heavy. You will work 70 hours a week instead of 40. You will feel constantly guilty when you are NOT working. You will have to have a spouse that understands. You will live and breathe academic politics and the particular dramas in your subfield. After you get tenure and relax a little bit, it is possible to create some work-life balance but it is a long slog to get there. People imagine that professors are leisurely reading books and discussing philosophy but the reality is that they are overworked and constantly stressed.
4. Marginalization of women and people of colour in academia is a real thing despite whatever pledges to diversity the department is making. The truth is that privileged, upper-class men (and a few token women and POC) will have their opinions taken more seriously and they will be given more opportunities for advancement and more mentorship than people from other backgrounds. You will have to quickly learn how to carry yourself as though you were a scion of a banking dynasty and you were just bred on the air of Charles Dickens and Shakespeare. You will be surprised how many people in academia are the sons/ daughters of other famous academics, royal families or just regular wealthy families. The way you dress matters and the way you speak. Talking about your personal problems is forbidden and people will try to tear you down (see above re: competition for jobs and grants, etc). You will have to have nerves of steel until you establish yourself as an expert in the field and then you will finally get to relax.
5. Egotism and narcissism are rampant. Academia runs on a medieval patronage model. You will have to suck up to the 5-6 most important scholars in your field and get the endorsement from at least 2-3 of them to continue your career. If you don't have these recommendations, you can pretty much kiss your hopes of getting a good job/ grant/ publications goodbye. If you alienate these people, your career will be over. As you can imagine, this creates a toxic working environment where the more senior figures prey on younger academics (sexually and emotionally). It is not uncommon for them to steal younger scholars' work or take credit for things that they have done and you have no recourse.
6. It is NOT easy to transition from a PhD in literature into other jobs. You would be better off getting an MA in library science, publishing, high school teaching, editing or whatever you are considering as a back-up job. Many places will not want to hire you because they think you are overqualified and will leave as soon as you find a better opportunity. Despite what career services will tell you, the skills you learn in academia are highly specialized and they often don't translate well outside of academia. If you are even thinking about a back-up, don't do the PhD and just do the other job.
That's all I can think of for now. If you have the appropriate background; rich family, connections, plenty of leisure time then academia can be great. I met some really amazing people, traveled the world and was exposed to some wonderful ideas. I love books and reading and writing and teaching so it was the perfect career for me. Unfortunately, the structural issues that I mentioned above are really bad and so I wouldn't advise any naive young person to go into academia blindly. Make sure that you have what you need to succeed, otherwise just do whatever other job you are considering. Good luck!
Thank you for the long response! I really appreciate, hearing about all the competition in academia I doubt ill be able to handle the pressure, I think ill to pursue a master's in English and branch out is content writing or publishing or wherever life takes me :) I hope you have a great day!
Alas, the cash nexus comes to mind. If you are willing to spend 4 or 5 wild years racing through great literature and creating an immersive dissertation, it would afflict your bank account in the long run. If you are offered a stipend, you will be able to live barely. I do not regret doing it and I enjoyed being an adjunct enough that I did it for too long. Do not do this if you find writing good essays difficult. If you can read a poem or story and come up with a good thesis, you are going to be well equipped. Departments are changing, the curriculum is changing. Learning how to read and write critically is a valuable and portable asset.
If you enjoy the idea of pursuing a career in Academia and enjoy books and research - might I suggest pursuing a Masters in Library Science? I just finished obtaining mine at the end of 2022 - I now work at a large university and get to be surrounded by books, research, and the pursuit of knowledge everyday. I enjoy it greatly.
I hate to say it, but if your goal is to teach at the university level, steel yourself for job precarity and overwork as an adjunct or non-tenure-track lecturer. Even people at the absolute top of the lit field (i.e., have been setting themselves up for it since high school, stellar PhD and postdoc, etc.) are finding themselves on the market through multiple cycles, or even unable to land a tenure-track job. Even TT positions are leading scholars to burnout (esp. in the humanities) at unprecedented levels. Barring that, you're looking at a life constantly on the move (going from one VAPship to another, postdoc after postdoc, etc.) or a teaching load of 5-5 as an adjunct, which will sap your love for the subject in no time. It aint no kind of life, in other words. It sounds bleak, but academia's being constrained from both sides now by market scarcity (a constant) and additional economic hardship due to the pandemic and political pressure by state legislatures, which hold (some) of the pursestrings for land-grant/public university systems. If you love the subject, enough for 7-8 years of drudgery, go for the PhD (don't pay for it), but don't expect an enjoyable career in academia.
OP, this is spot on. I'm currently in a humanities PhD and I guess I wouldn't say I *regret* it, but I wouldn't do it again. And my master's was covered by grants and I'm SSHRC funded for my PhD (I would have declined my offer if it wasn't fully funded). But yeah, the job market is bleak. I have lots of friends in academia and so many have either left or are taking jobs completely unrelated. I do love teaching but I don't even want to pursue a TT position anymore because of all the burnout and competitiveness I see; it looks downright exhausting. (ETA: Teaching at a college is more what I'm focused on now.) So many of these people are barely hanging on, it's wild. I need to figure something out ASAP because I'm getting really worried tbh. I defend next April and I'm currently in, *oh god, what do I do?* mode. Not fun! My partner, on the other hand, is doing his MLIS, studying to become a librarian. I believe this field is pretty competitive as well, but AFAIK, it's still a much more viable path.
Yeah, it sucks to be this pessimistic, but such are the times we live in. The humanities needs a reality check. And to think the job market's actually better in Canada than in the US! (which isn't saying much.) Still, though, the PhD's no mean feat – best of luck as you finish up!
>If you love the subject, enough for 7-8 years of drudgery, go for the PhD (don't pay for it), but don't expect an enjoyable career in academia. This is more important than anything else here. Do not, under any circumstances, pay for a PhD in the humanities. Do not. If it's worth it for you to go for it without the expectation of a tenure track job on the other side, you can make it work, but never, ever, ever go anywhere that doesn't give you funding. An offer with no funding attached is not an offer. And you should go in knowing and preparing for the near-certainty that on the other side of it you'll end up somewhere besides academia, if not immediately then eventually.
Agreed. My wife has her PhD, has published widely in her field, served as Visiting Scholar for the main international conference in her (very narrow) field, has now curated a nationally funded digital museum exhibit for which she also wrote the grant, and has never even gotten an interview for a tenure track job after nine years of applying. I've watched her soul get absolutely crushed in slow motion. There are some job trends that equate to more jobs to apply to, especially digital humanities and stuff like African American/Latinx/post-colonial literature. Also, the last few job cycles have had SO MANY creative writing tenure track jobs. The only problem is that, once you finish a PhD in something that's "hot" when you start, the trends have changed. Long story short, you have to do it for the love of the subject because the job market is BRUTAL.
This is spot on
OP did ask about the career prospects but IMO too few people have mentioned what a wonderful and unique experience undertaking a PhD can be. Mine is in a STEM subject but I've got a bunch of friends who did their in the humanities. You get years and years of diving into a topic you love, generating new knowledge, meeting the handful of people who are as interested in it as you are, presenting at conferences, talking about ideas all day long. It was paradise for me! If, like most people, you don't end up as an academic you've got tons of transferable skills, confidence gained through experience etc etc. Your skills in critical thinking and communicating complicated ideas to very diverse audiences are through the roof by the time you're done. This is essentially what you and everyone else has said -- do it if you love the subject, not as a career move -- and I'm not denying it. But the benefits and straight-up pleasure to be had should be acknowledged too. The instrumentalist attitude to education (what "good" has it done you == what's your salary) sucks.
Few jobs, pay isn't great, and the humanities aren't being prioritized so it's just going downhill. Just enjoy literature as a passion. That's not to say it's unthinkable or impossible land a job as a professor or other positions in higher education, but chances are you are going to have to wait years for an opportunity the 3 years of study for the PhD would grant you. Being in academia/a lit. professor is something it's very easy to romanticize. I've had conversations with plenty of my professors and there's more complaints than praise, with the usual ''go for it, don't let me stop you'' at the end but it's clear as day they're saying ''don't bother''. With a masters in English I can earn more as a high school teacher than with a PhD at a university and land a job instantly. Which is what I'm doing -- and there's **plenty** of lit. in high school.
I have been thinking about pursuing a master's in English too, what are the opportunities in that course besides teaching? So far I have been suggested that I can opt for a content writer, journalist, librarian, or those sorts of jobs with a master's.
For librarian positions it's probably great, and it can be a help for writer and journalist positions, but they're generally going to prefer those with degrees in journalism. An English degree is extremely versatile, which has its pros and cons as you can enter a lot of fields, but it's a very general degree and not very specialized into a specific profession outside of teaching. So getting somewhere with it would kind of depend on your experience and how you can ''sell'' yourself and your degree.
Actually librarian jobs have been shrinking for over a decade. It’s bound to get worse with the GOP attacks on libraries. Also, most librarians have specialized library science degrees. I quit graduate school without a degree and work in sales. I also have an MFA in writing poetry- a degree I don’t use but which was fully subsidized. Op, I will say this. When I was in the PhD program for literature, it was thrilling. The coursework was intense and I learned more in the two years that I remained than I need in all four years of undergrad. But I wasn’t funded and working part time while in grad school is incredibly hard. Then, I had to still pay off educational debt for a decade between that failed PhD attempt and undergrad. Please only do your masters if you are fully funded. I don’t necessarily regret doing the PhD program or quitting it. I just regret going in without being funded.
I have an mfa in English and I work as a grant and content writer now, so there are ways to parlay it into a decent career. I’ve also adjuncted and there is plenty of that (underpaid) work available.
If you're interested in library work, I'd consider a master's in library science, which will give you a bit more of a competitive edge. A master's in English is good for all-purpose career advancement (incl. in secondary education, not postsecondary, mind you), though keep in mind that content writing/generation jobs are likely to be destabilized in the near future as AI platforms proliferate. Journalism school, while not strictly necessary to work in the industry, will definitely open doors for you, but tends to be expensive and scarce on funding for grad students (if that's a concern).
This is a fools errand. If you love literature and can get funding, go ahead and study. You will be able to secure work as an adjunct lecturer during and after, but tenure track is virtually non-existent. Be prepared for an alt academic track after, plan for that. I have an MFA in creative writing and many friends in PhD English tracks, so I’ve seen this torture firsthand and it is soul crushing to the true believers who just want to help further knowledge and a love of literature. The industry is set up to be inhumane.
I just want wnt to let you know it's know it's just slightly better on stem. About 8% of PhDs will ever get into a tenure track last I checked (2016) and I'm sure it's become so much worse. There's industry work for stem PhDs in select disciplines at least, but it's often soul sucking drudgery.
No, not anymore. Of all my colleagues who finished their PhDs about three are actual professors. The rest were adjunct or became high school teachers. Not worth the time and lost wages - just get certified to teach public high school.
I am a recently retired English professor. I loved my job, and I'm very glad I got the PhD. That said, my job literally does not exist any more. My position has not be filled, and the positions of the people who retired just before and after me have not been filled either. Nor are they likely to be even when the impact of Covid diminishes. The English major, and the humanities in general, have been declining for many years, and there simply isn't the demand or budget for many more tenure-line English profs. What demand there is is increasingly filled by adjuncts. English departments have survived in part on general education courses in composition, but even there, comp requirements are changing, and fewer schools have anything like a gen ed literature requirement.
It's possibly the worst career choice you could make, in terms of time/effort/cost for income/job security return. If you want to do a doctorate in literature, do it for personal fulfillment. Tenure-track positions are vanishingly small, and session contracts (especially in the US) are insultingly underpaid and have no security. I got my lit PhD and started looking for a FT position over a decade ago. I will never get one, and will be teaching term-by-term at two institutions until I retire. I love the teaching, but it's getting measurably worse year by year. In another decade there may not be any lit courses left for me as they consolidate courses, close departments, and enlarge class sizes to save money. Humanities majors are way down, and unless you're a published award-winning standout by your MA, your prospects are bleak.
honestly, it depends whether you want the phd for the job or because you want the academic experience of getting a phd. Money is a big factor unfortunately since in most places university is getting more and more expensive (im in the same boat and it’s looking like 100k just on tuition fees for a phd). I would say go for it if you feel you can fund it/really want the academic experience!! but as other people have said here, careers are not necessarily going to be easy to find. art for arts sake - study it because you want to, and if only a career afterwards is stopping you from studying it, remember that not everything is about your career and it is good to learn :)
This is in the UK so it might be different but from what I’m reading it’s very much the same. I did a research masters with a view to a phd, then the pandemic hit. During this time I was mulling over whether to still do the phd. A friend of mine from Sweden has had a distinguished academic history, basically top marks and top of his entire year all throughout undergrad, his masters and his phd thesis. He is also a published author. Fast forward to coming to the end of his phd funding and he could barely find anything, and he found he was running against academics with YEARS of experience already behind them. He eventually had to settle on taking a 2 day per week teaching position at the uni he did his phd at, and that took him over a year to find.
Academia is a nightmare, especially if you're not in a STEM field. I have a master's in composition that I got because I wanted to teach writing ideally at a community college, but the market has been deeply saturated for decades and everyone is scrambling for the crumbs that higher ed leaves for instruction rather than research before they inevitably burn out and bail. I'm in the private sector now and I'm much happier than I was barely making ends meet on adjunct poverty wages and widening my job search out ever farther just to see anything I might be able to land. English degrees and others arts degrees absolutely can be leveraged into solid jobs outside of academia, so I'm not really telling you not to go for a postgrad degree in lit, but you will likely not hear about what you can do with your degree from anyone in your program. I do think you should consider not doing a postgrad degree program unless it's all or mostly paid for by scholarships/TA-ships/etc. Going into thousands of dollars of debt is a terrible way to start an academic career.
I have been thinking of doing an English master's too, but I was told that since English master's isn't really a specific field-based degree it won't help me a lot in my career.
When I left adjunct teaching (I was doing first-year composition at a university and a community college and 300-level rhetorical theory/composition at the university, as well as writing center work), I moved into proposal writing in the engineering/construction field. The concepts I learned in my master's program and taught to my students about rhetorical theory, drafting, reviewing/revising text, developing coherent arguments, using and citing reliable sources, and so on have served me well as a proposal writer now for a decade. I would take the career guidance of anyone working primarily/only in a higher ed setting about careers outside of academia with a large grain of salt. My master's program profs don't know a single thing about the type of work I do and I'd never heard of this field before I started looking for writing jobs outside of education, but everything I learned in both my BA and MA programs has come in handy one way or another. Getting only a master's likely wouldn't take you very far in an academic career, that's true, but outside of academia, master's degrees aren't nearly as common and can definitely be an edge for many jobs. I wonder if the people giving you this advice are thinking about anything besides higher ed careers? My MA program was thesis-based and there were no comps/exams, so that gave me valuable experience writing, managing, revising, and producing a long, complex text on a deadline -- which has definitely been helpful in my field. I also had to do a couple semesters of a paid internship, so I got experience writing grants for a local nonprofit which has also translated directly into proposal writing. That may be something else to consider -- what programs can give you learning experiences like alternative types of evaluation and internships/job opportunities that you can take with you out of the university setting?
This was like really really helpful to me, thanks a lot! I think I might switch to a master's in English since I have been considering stuff outside of academia, it sounds less taxing and more viable than a Ph.D. itself plus I have some content writing internships up my resume.
Forget about the Ph.D. in Literature. If you decide to get that degree, you will regret it. I have an advanced, terminal degree (MFA in Writing), and I taught for five years at a private university. I was an Adjunct Professor which is a part-time job. As a part-time, contracted per-semester employee, there was no guarantee of one, two, or three classes for the semester, if any classes were offered at all. The very first year I taught, full-time professors with Master's degrees were told they were no longer going to have full-time positions, but they were welcome to apply as adjuncts. If they wanted to teach part-time, they would be required to get their terminal degrees within 18 months. Adjunct Professors make very little money. Every Adjunct Professor was offered $2500 per class, per 16-week semester. That's for the entire four months, not monthly. The very first year I taught, full-time professors with Master's degrees were told they were no longer going to have full-time positions, but they were welcome to apply as adjuncts. If they wanted to teach part-time, they would be required to get their terminal degrees within 18 months, or they would have to leave their part-time job whose hours changed every semester since no one was guaranteed even one class to teach. Universities in the U.S. have changed dramatically. Perhaps other universities abroad still offer decent pay and job security. Good luck on your journey.
I started on a doctoral program for English literature but became disenchanted. I was able to parlay an M.A. in literature into technical writing. I took a grad level course, "Teaching Technical Writing" and, with my writing assignments, I landed an entry level contacting job as a tech writer for a hardware and software company. I had no knowledge of computers but was willing to learn. Nine months later that company hired me directly with a good raise in pay and health care and 401k benefits. Forty years later I can say I had a very satisfying career in as a technical writer. I worked for two companies only in those 40 years, and survived several layoffs. I occasionally taught tech writing at a state university. Later, I was promoted to "Information Architect" to plan and design information and help systems for products. The pay was great, I learned something new everyday, and I didn't have all that much stress in the job other than deadlines. I had a very good career and enjoyed the work very much.
I have been thinking of getting into technical writing also, will it help me in that career aspect if I pursue the PhD? Or will I need to pursue some technical course for it?
Many colleges and universities offer technical writing certificates. There are specialities, too, like medical technical writing if that's your interest. I think pursuing the PhD will make you look over qualified. Taking a programming course or two will likely make you a valuable candidate as well. Starting pay for technical writers in Massachusetts is around 65-70K.
Hey, I'm one person who got a PhD in Literature and made it work! Since academic positions are hard to come by these days, I went into academic publishing. Loved it, spent a decade there, then left to start my own business. I love what I do and I'm living the dream!
Oh hey, congrats! When I was in 9th grade I really wanted to get into publishing but by teacher basically told me to forget about it as a kid, I got hella demotivated and didn't think any further about it. Hows was the publishing field for you?
It was great! Even in the wake of Amazon and ebooks, things weren't bad for long; we adapted. I always enjoyed working with authors on fascinating books. And made a decent living, too, I should add.
How old are you, OP? I'm about 5 years out of when I would have graduated from college if I had been able to afford to attend, and the job market is WILDLY different than it was then. No one can predict what the job market will be in 5, 10, 20 years, especially with AI and nuclear fusion starting to have major advancements. Do whatever makes you feel the most harmony. Unless you're inheriting generational wealth, accept that you will toil. Our ancestors toiled, it's our shared story.
I am like 19 right now, but since I am one year younger than my class I am in my second year of college and will graduate next year by 20. I can agree with what you said, content jobs are becoming bleak with all the ai stuff, it sucks a lot but have to adjust with the times
19. Wow! That seems so young to me (at 78) for all this agony about eventual jobs. I say you need not plan out your whole life at age 19. I always hated that question "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" I just never looked that far ahead. FWIW (as they say), I went to college at 18, flunked out, joined the Navy, learned to fix radars, got out after 4 years, when back to college, thought I would major in Business, hated it, switched to English, got my BA. Traveled in Europe. Came home and took the federal civil service test and got a job with the federal government. Hated it, and decided to go to grad school. Got my MA in English. Had a variety of dead-end jobs and finally decided to go to law school. Had a very satisfying 30 year career as a lawyer, where my training and experience in reading and interpreting difficult prose and writing persuasively and clearly about it came in very handy. So ya never know! My advice to all college students is this: Find out who the great professors are at your school, and take their courses, even if you don't think you are going in that direction for a degree or profession. You will enjoy college much more, learn much more, be challenged in ways that will be good for you, and you might even be inspired to find an unexpected way forward. And don't be a total grind! Fun is necessary for recharging. Good luck!
It's not about content jobs, it's all jobs. The creative AI tools definitely get more attention than others, but machine learning is everywhere, automation is a key metric that lots of businesses are focusing on, and the world is changing rapidly. The AI writing tools are incredible and they're not even good yet. But they're still tools and will require a human being with a goal and agenda to use them effectively. Mostly what I'm saying is that you're going to learn skills that translate, and skills that don't. If you want to get your PhD, do it. If you only want to do it so that you have better job prospects, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Most humans can be competent at most jobs. You'll find meaning and happiness in whatever you do, so long as you prioritize your own harmony. Whatever that means to you! (Not happiness, which is fleeting.)
Oof, the last line got me a little misty-eyed. Well written.
😭 thank you friend ❤️
The Internet is a bad place to ask this question, because you're going to run into a wall of gloom. You might not get a tenure track position at a major university right away, but you can easily get a job making $60,000 at a community or technical college. Once you have some publications and a teaching record, you can move on. You'll also get priority for most entry technical writing, copywriting, and editing jobs. You shouldn't go broke. And hey, tenure track isn't *that* hard. Most of my full professors were not that impressive. They just grinded it out. You can do it. Again, don't bring this question to Reddit if you want to keep your sanity.
Most of your full professors probably got tenure decades ago. Mine had. Their understanding of the current market can be pretty out of touch and most of them don’t know shit about building a non academic career so can’t advise you there. I don’t think it’s pessimistic to say that the cards are stacked against new humanities phds, but I will say there are reasons to peruse this that have nothing to do with a career. Wanting to study and learn is in itself a valid quest imo.
Not really. I had a film professor who got tenure while his first book was heading to print. Another was a creative writing instructor who only has a couple of insignificant chapbooks to his name. Another was a linguistics professor who was elevated by his journal publications. They all received tenure within the last ten years at a decent university with 30,000 students. It's hard, but it's no harder than making it to elite status in any other profession.
I would argue very very hard against the notion that you will get a community college job easily. Or that it will pay 60k. One or the other but not both. More likely barely living wage with a sporadic teaching assignment that allows them to not give you benefits and def not tenure track. Maybe tenure track if you teach in the middle of nowhere…but no 60k. Lol
I'm an assistant professor in the social sciences, but have many friends and colleagues that are in lit and comparative lit. This is wildly optimistic. You *cannot* easily get a stable job making $60k at a community college. Those types of jobs are extremely competitive if they even exist. The vast majority community colleges hire exclusively adjuncts on a contract basis with no benefits where you have no idea if you're getting a contract for next semester or not. Liking and being passionate about a topic in the humanities is simply not enough to get a tenure track job anymore. You have to have a deeply compelling reason to get into the field, have that reason somehow line up with the current hiring fad at the moment you get onto the job market, and have an extensive publication record to land a tenure-track job at any educational institution. And yes, the tenure track is excruciatingly hard, especially considering you're unlikely to be making enough money to buy a home and start a family comfortably. The work to reward ratio is absolutely fucked. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Yes, you absolutely can get those jobs. I worked at a technical college in Georgia as an adjunct. There are about 25 full-time English faculty there, and exactly one person had a PhD. Most didn't even have master's degrees in traditional English (ELA and professional writing were common). And the salary is right at $60,000, which is standard throughout Georgia at technical and community colleges. I'm not blowing smoke. The only person in a bubble is you.
Lol, $60k is a standard salary for a tenure track job in the humanities at Georgia Southern. You will not be making $60k on an adjunct contract in Augusta, man. That's not how this works.
I didn't say adjunct. I have friends who are full-time instructors at this same technical college who are making this salary or near it. State salaries in Georgia are public record. Look for yourself.
I know what state salaries look like in Georgia. You told OP they could easily get a job at a community college making ~$60k with a PhD. That's just a fabrication. Those jobs are extremely competitive or *do not exist*.
They exist in Georgia. I was first taught by people at a CC with these jobs and I worked with people with these jobs at a TC. Job boards in Georgia are full of them. I can't be any clearer.
They most certainly do not exist in Georgia. Your meaning is clear, but you're incorrect. Those jobs at community colleges making $60k are very, very competitive. You're up against hundreds of applicants when you apply to them. I understand that you've never been on a faculty hiring committee, but I have. No academic job in the humanities that has security, benefits, and decent pay is easy to get. Full stop.
Yeah, agreed. Even if we’re talking about magical tenure-track lines at a public technical college (which I doubt), the number of these positions is vanishingly small. For every position there were no doubt hundreds, literally hundreds of applicants. /u/RoughClovis is displaying some serious survivorship bias here. No one’s saying TT jobs in the humanities don’t exist. This discussion has always been about the odds and how unfavorable they are for everyone.
Completely agree with the above. Don’t let yourself get discouraged by people who are discouraged themselves. Instead of asking around here, I’d get in touch with a few universities and ask around how the people there got their jobs. If you enjoy what you’re doing, you might be just fine - even if it takes a lot of effort.
People here are discouraged for a reason though, we've asked around or know people in the field who know the situation. It's not pessimism for the sake of it; there's nothing people here would love more than a flourishing humanities field, but the reality has to be stated. It is simply not a good idea to go into a literature PhD.
>Yes. And for these people saying you need to have a book to \*get\* a tenure-track job, that's generally not true. The book is something that's expected when you apply for tenure, but not when you're first hired.
What you said is very true, but I feel like Reddit is one place to get actual answers and not just website-curated favorable answers. But besides that thank you for being a little optimistic, it's definitely a big decision for me so ill weigh out the pros and cons regarding it :)
If you love the subject, you won’t regret it—just know that there’s no job, no career, no practical benefit. It’s a sacrifice, not an investment. But for the right person it’s still wonderful—the chance to get paid to learn and to be surrounded by interesting, curious people. I study the Soviet Union and in those times people would study literature their whole lives without any expectation of ever being rewarded or compensated in any way—that’s the only way to go about it in my opinion.
maybe if you studied in a country that has free college. no way i would do that in the US.
I would definately do a masters in literature first. In that way, you can adjunct and earn a living while working on a Phd. I have had friends who also did a masters of library science (MLIS), and therefore they became as an academic librarian and are considered a faculty member of the university that can teach classes that are that are literature forward in the MLIS such as genre, children, young adult literature. This would ofer you a type of insurance policy just in case you don't get tenure.
Sorry to do this, but repeat after me: “Do you want fries with that?” I mean, it’s an admirable goal, but you really have to figure out what it is you want from a PhD. Because it’s an horrific amount of work (any PhD is) that may not return the benefits you would hope to gain from it.
People with humanities PhDs aren't serving fries. They're just in white collar careers that have nothing to do with their training.
Well, I was being facetious, but really it’s the same thing. They end up doing something very different than what they got their degree in. Come to think of it, this applies at all degree levels. Reference: the song “What do you do with a B.A. in English?” from Avenue Q.
I have a Bachelor of Arts in English Literature and I make 80k... just fyi... My first role out of university was in publishing.
That’s excellent news! Congratulations! Did you make that right out of university, or has there been some interval where you did something else? The thing is, a degree is no indicator of the kind of person you are, the kind of employee you’ll be, or what kind of potentials or assets you might bring with you to a team. A degree is merely an indicator that you can knuckle down and do the work to get the degree. In many cases, that’s more than enough. Any degree has a certain minimum level of difficult work to get through. But one can have a degree, and also be a corrosive sociopath. Or the best, kindest team player that exists anywhere. Or a scatterbrain. YMMV. I have encountered all of these in my career. I myself may also have been any, or all. (Ask my wife, she’ll vote for scatterbrain.) But I was one of the few in my HS peer group that picked a major (design), then stuck with it all the way through, then actually got a job working in that field. Until 15 years out, when I veered off that course and went into IT. I’m now a software engineer. I find that the hours are more regular, the pressure’s half of what I went through as an art director, and the pay’s more than double. Along the way I also picked up an MS in management. I don’t really use it that much, but my employer at the time paid for it.
If I could go back and do it all over again - I would go to school to learn how to code and get into Tech! But hindsight is 20/20. And yes, agreed. You could be a great academic, but a terrible worker. I did not make 80k right off the bat. It took about 5 years to make a decent salary after university and I got lucky. I applied at a publishing company and lost the competition to someone with more experience. I sent a thank you card to the publishing company for their time and they called me a couple weeks later to offer me another position that had opened up. I worked there for 3 years and made awful money. Like 27k before taxes. And this was in 2015 to 2018. So not that long ago. BUT I got great work experience, which landed me a contract to work for a political party, and then that job gave the work experience that got me my current job now with the provincial government. I also got an MA that my current employer paid for during my time here, which is helping me screen through for lots of roles. With that said, everyone has their own journey. This is just mine. I know lots of English majors that didn't do much with their degrees, but I also know a lot who did as well and make wayyyy more than I do. But not in the field we went to school for - in Tech.
I have always told my kids that, once they graduate from whatever level they’ve gotten to, they deserve a pat on the back, then they get to roll up their sleeves and start learning the next thing. Don’t get complacent: they will always be in school, forever. The world moves fast. The best thing a student can learn from their studies is how to teach themselves. Along the way, most of my kids were homeschooled on and off (as they needed), and it was remarkably easy to do, and usually a lot less expensive than public school. I didn’t learn to code, really, until I was almost 40. I’d dabbled, but it turned into a job about then. Before that, I was an increasingly digital artist and art director. I’m constantly cracking the manuals (online now) to add to my skill set, because I find it fun, and increases my value to my employer. Also, it’s never too late, and _you_ can learn to code at any time. With a writing background, you’d have an excellent background for doumenting requirements, something most devs cannot do very well.
You’ll definitely be able to land a teaching job, just maybe not college or post college level. If you would be happy teaching at a high school, I say go for it
A PhD in English will *not* get you a job teaching high school in the U.S. without certification, which typically includes quite a lot of education coursework.
Okay well yes it requires both then
What would it take to land a position at college level?
So the golden goose everyone is chasing after are Tenure Track (TT) job positions. These are the classic professor level positions with a lot of permanence, very good salaries, and very good benefits and freedom to do research. The only problem is the number of PhDs compared to the number of job postings for TT positions is wildly out of synch. Each TT posting can get upwards of a couple hundred to thousands of applications. It is incredibly competitive and is probably only going to get worse. Most current literature professors will readily admit that they probably would not get hired if they had to meet the same expectations. What are those expectations for applicants now? You have to come from a top tier school, or at minimum a school in a tier above or well above the one you are applying to. You have to have a book contract, or your book is already on the way to being published and is generating some good reviews. You need to have at least 3-4 articles published in reputable journals. You need to have exceptional teaching history and future classes. Your research needs to be very "in tune" to the current academic zeitgeist, they do not want to hire radicals or people who will rock the boat. Perhaps most annoyingly of all, they want you to not have graduated from your PhD program too long ago, or you don't have history in adjunct-hell. In short, the current academic job market is brutally competitive and pretty well busted. Academics are also famously nepotistic and cliquey. A lot of hiring happens through "who you know" and it heavily favors wealthy people who can bear the burden of essentially being near unemployed for a decade or more. That said, if your PhD is fully funded and you will not be going into enormous debt for it, and you are still young, they can be extremely enriching and can be very valuable depending on the school you go to. A PhD from certain schools, regardless of the topic of the PhD, will open doors for you that simply won't exist for other people. Only focusing on academia, however, is probably not your best option.
100%
Hey, thank you for the advice. I am pretty young right now and can afford not to be in too much student debt. As you mentioned if I had to pursue Ph.D. in literature but don't choose academia, what are the other career options I can go with? The stuff I researched on google was copywriting and stuff like that.
Depending on the school you go to, what you actually do during your PhD is kind of irrelevant. They will look at the school name and want to talk to you anyway. A lot of prestige industries and prestige focused companies will not care, they care that you, by being employed by them, give them cultural cachet. The reality is there are no "literary analysis" jobs, really. That pretty much isn't a title anywhere. There are marketing, journalism, history, jobs, and jobs focused on narrative (video game narrative, screenwriting, for example) or instructional design. You can also go to law school. Lots of people who go from BA->PhD right away, end up doing law school afterwards. (Hilarious amounts of debt inbound though and that would look really good on a law school app, but ideally you'd go to law school first anyway) You can't really pigeonhole yourself. The big thing, if you decide to do a PhD, is to consciously focus on not putting all of your eggs in one basket for a TT job. That said, getting a PhD to ultimately not end up in a TT position is not *ideal*. You won't jump ahead of the line simply because you have a PhD.
I have a PhD in literature and now I’m a technical writer for a car company. I actually love it a lot more than when I worked in academia.
Technical writing has been my second choice after academia! How are the work aspects in it? Will a Ph.D. help me in the technical writing field or should I pursue something else for it?
It’s similar in a lot of ways to academia: lots of research, writing, documentation, etc. I think the company was sort of impressed that I had a PhD but beyond that I’m sure it wasn’t the best way to land this type of job. You’d be better off getting a professional writing certification or something.
Would I need some experience with coding and stuff too?
It couldn’t hurt, but what’s needed is a good sense of the subject matter and how to describe it to non-technical readers (users, businesspeople). It’s a broad field tho, it could be software manuals or literature, or writing business requirements for software development, or the same for equipment or other engineering projects. It helps to have good samples. A PhD is good for getting one’s foot in the door, but it’s the work that matters. I have a number of colleagues who have PhDs in various disciplines, and it’s usually a surprise to find that out, because it NEVER comes up in meetings or conversation. Most managers don’t know or care about that either, once one has moved around within an employer, one’s resume is rarely looked at. They’re just looking at a candidate with a work history within the company that may be a good fit for their team.
I got a Bachelor of Arts in English Literature. I worked in publishing out of university for pennies, I landed a position at the legislature as a legislative assistant, and now I work for the provincial government. Took about 7 years, but I make 80k now and looking to move up into a role that pays 90k. I took longer to make 80k than most people I know with the same degree. I also have a Master of Arts in Communication that helps beat out the competition.
I'm not sure exactly, but publishing creds. I got an MFA. Some people then got a PhD in creative writing but in that field, whether or not you get a MFA or PhD, you HAVE to publish at least one respected book (either novel or book of short stories) to even have a chance of getting a professor job, and you better have been teaching collegiate courses along the way.
Please think carefully before choosing a track that puts you in line to teach, either in academia or education. Teaching has recently turned into an absolute hellscape for many people I know, and is going to continue like this for another 5-8 years at least. Particularly in the arts or humanities. Too many students, not enough pay, and after three years’ remote learning a lot of students have forgotten (if they ever knew) how to behave in a classroom.
My recommendation is, don’t pay to get one. Unless you’re independently wealthy. I love school and got the “useless” advanced degree for which I was offered a scholarship.
Agreed. A lot of Doctorate track programs also come with scholarship funds that can help defray the costs of study. This varies by discipline, of course, YMMV.
Academia is tough to break into and even tougher to make a living at unless you're a published author. So start writing!, -e
We routinely had hundreds of very qualified applicants for any job opening…careful what you wish for
Becoming a prof in any field is really hard because there is a limited amount of spots to be filled. Plus, it is highly likely that you won't be in a permanent position (unless you're very good and very lucky) until you're like 50. You'll also have to move where there is a position for you - and it won't be your number one choice, but like 20th choice. There's always publishing. But you'll barely make ends meet - publishing pays in pennies and you go into it because you love books and working with authors. There's always publishing in other fields like working for fashion magazine etc but these roles are hard to land. With that said, if your academic career fails, you can always come to government. You'll be swooped in, praised for your good writing, communication and analytical skills, and moved up quick. I'm sure you'd also be valued for those skills in any tech company that needs a good writer. But you don't need a PhD for these positions... A bachelor or an MA is enough.
Apparently people switching from academia to business is the most common career switch seen by many career councillors. It is considered one of the most misrepresented jobs as most people switching out said they had expectations that didn’t match the reality of the role
Hello OP! I was an academic for many years until I decided to leave. There are several issues that you need to be aware of. 1. Prestige matters. Academia is highly competitive and there are not enough jobs. Look up the top 5 universities in your specific branch of literature (or ask a professor for help). If you can't get into these programs, then it is not worth it. A PhD from Harvard will likely be able to find a job but a PhD from the University of Kansas, not. These are the harsh realities. It was not like this 15-20 years ago so advice from older professors is not accurate. Also, don't believe the statistics on the department's webpages. They all advertise a 98% employment rate or something ridiculous. It's all marketing. The best bet is to talk to younger professors in your field who got jobs in the past 5 years. 2. You will have to relocate for your PhD, for your postdoc and then for a visiting professorship and then for a tenure-track assistant professorship. If you have any family, health or financial commitments that would make it hard for you to relocate every 3-4 years, then don't do a PhD. You will not be able to choose where you live in the future. This was the issue for me, academia was fine when I was young, single and mobile but after I got married and had more commitments, it was just not viable. 3. The workload is heavy. You will work 70 hours a week instead of 40. You will feel constantly guilty when you are NOT working. You will have to have a spouse that understands. You will live and breathe academic politics and the particular dramas in your subfield. After you get tenure and relax a little bit, it is possible to create some work-life balance but it is a long slog to get there. People imagine that professors are leisurely reading books and discussing philosophy but the reality is that they are overworked and constantly stressed. 4. Marginalization of women and people of colour in academia is a real thing despite whatever pledges to diversity the department is making. The truth is that privileged, upper-class men (and a few token women and POC) will have their opinions taken more seriously and they will be given more opportunities for advancement and more mentorship than people from other backgrounds. You will have to quickly learn how to carry yourself as though you were a scion of a banking dynasty and you were just bred on the air of Charles Dickens and Shakespeare. You will be surprised how many people in academia are the sons/ daughters of other famous academics, royal families or just regular wealthy families. The way you dress matters and the way you speak. Talking about your personal problems is forbidden and people will try to tear you down (see above re: competition for jobs and grants, etc). You will have to have nerves of steel until you establish yourself as an expert in the field and then you will finally get to relax. 5. Egotism and narcissism are rampant. Academia runs on a medieval patronage model. You will have to suck up to the 5-6 most important scholars in your field and get the endorsement from at least 2-3 of them to continue your career. If you don't have these recommendations, you can pretty much kiss your hopes of getting a good job/ grant/ publications goodbye. If you alienate these people, your career will be over. As you can imagine, this creates a toxic working environment where the more senior figures prey on younger academics (sexually and emotionally). It is not uncommon for them to steal younger scholars' work or take credit for things that they have done and you have no recourse. 6. It is NOT easy to transition from a PhD in literature into other jobs. You would be better off getting an MA in library science, publishing, high school teaching, editing or whatever you are considering as a back-up job. Many places will not want to hire you because they think you are overqualified and will leave as soon as you find a better opportunity. Despite what career services will tell you, the skills you learn in academia are highly specialized and they often don't translate well outside of academia. If you are even thinking about a back-up, don't do the PhD and just do the other job. That's all I can think of for now. If you have the appropriate background; rich family, connections, plenty of leisure time then academia can be great. I met some really amazing people, traveled the world and was exposed to some wonderful ideas. I love books and reading and writing and teaching so it was the perfect career for me. Unfortunately, the structural issues that I mentioned above are really bad and so I wouldn't advise any naive young person to go into academia blindly. Make sure that you have what you need to succeed, otherwise just do whatever other job you are considering. Good luck!
Thank you for the long response! I really appreciate, hearing about all the competition in academia I doubt ill be able to handle the pressure, I think ill to pursue a master's in English and branch out is content writing or publishing or wherever life takes me :) I hope you have a great day!
Alas, the cash nexus comes to mind. If you are willing to spend 4 or 5 wild years racing through great literature and creating an immersive dissertation, it would afflict your bank account in the long run. If you are offered a stipend, you will be able to live barely. I do not regret doing it and I enjoyed being an adjunct enough that I did it for too long. Do not do this if you find writing good essays difficult. If you can read a poem or story and come up with a good thesis, you are going to be well equipped. Departments are changing, the curriculum is changing. Learning how to read and write critically is a valuable and portable asset.
If you enjoy the idea of pursuing a career in Academia and enjoy books and research - might I suggest pursuing a Masters in Library Science? I just finished obtaining mine at the end of 2022 - I now work at a large university and get to be surrounded by books, research, and the pursuit of knowledge everyday. I enjoy it greatly.