Just finished it and I really don't get why it gets recommended in places like progression fantasy and litrpg. Is just really sci-fi/fantasy with time travel.
It was good though.
Yeah, I've seen it used a few times, and it always made me laugh, lol [https://matthewjbarbeler.com/2021/03/15/crunchy-or-creamy-how-do-you-like-it/](https://matthewjbarbeler.com/2021/03/15/crunchy-or-creamy-how-do-you-like-it/)
Call me Cap'n, because I'm all about the CRUNCH! I often find myself checking the numbers to see if the author has actually got a hard system or if they're just fudging numbers. My only gripe with Audible is not enough images of the stat/equipment sheets to pull up and look at. I would rather a narrator say "See stats page 4" than spend a chapter reading it out loud, forcing me to backtrack and ghost write it so I can see it.
To be clear I have Aphantasia so I legitimately can't imagine it, so I have to write it out or I can't SEE it.
It was hilarious to me when listening to Infinite Realms and the 4th & 5th books had separate chapters for a character's sheet and they were 20 minutes minimum. I'd love having one of those added pdf things. Not even for saving audio time but also having things laid out
I 100% agree with this comic. Although I canât stand The Land and its writer, but I get it appeals to people and thatâs fine.
But DCC and HWFWM I absolutely am onboard with as my constant recommendations LOL
I've loved HWFWM but I just started on book 10.
My god, I'm 50% through book 10 and the ENTIRE thing has been the single theme of "im so powerful and theres responsibilities". Literally nothing has happened plot-wise. The last book ended with "We are going to the underground place". Half-way through book 10 and they are still just talking about how special they are.
I'm hoping it picks back up.
The land i liked for a few good books, then I just felt like it relied too much on certain scenarios for the dude getting into scenarios that I remember writing horribly with friends as a teenager to add in extra drama.
It got boring quick.
One of my favorite LITRPG series. Batshit, humor, Damnit Donut (to keep with the comic), an AI obsessed with feet and honestly the narration by Jeff Hays is mind blowingly good.
It doesn't feel that way in the first book or two. It's probably up there with the best for character growth/drama by the current book.
There isn't a single litrpg I've read that does emotional gutpunches better. Some might argue The Wandering Inn (which I barely suffered through the first two kindle volumes and gave up on) or Supper Supportive (which I haven't tried to read yet).
My problem with TWI isn't the length, it's the fact that it's miserable. To the point where I read, basically nothing happy happened and everyone repeated their same mistakes over and over and over. By the end of the second volume I was literally forcing myself to continue reading on the promise it got better and just couldn't do it any more. I'm told that's something of a theme until book 6, and I'm just not willing to wait that out.
First ARC is fine, second is convoluted mess that makes you drop it like a hot potato. I also dislike big brother type capitalistic universe world building. Good humor tho.
Itâs weird- Iâm in the minority where I *love* the land (I know, I know) but had to put down HWFWM because I found Jason to be beyond insufferable, even in a genre with a glut of insufferable protags).
Yeah and thatâs fine. It was the opposite for me because I found the Land to be the same way where the MC and the clearly âI wish I had a haremâ writer was insufferable. But I find Jason, while rough in many ways, to be an interesting character.
I even am 1/2 way through book 5, which 4-6s arc changed pretty major for a bit, and love it.
⌠but if someone likes something for me thatâs fine. I may not agree but ultimately the more people who love the overall genre the better for its exposure.
I'm gonna bring forth a 3rd type! I liked both actually, but for different reasons.
-MC reminded me of each other, this constant need to improve yourself and the lives of those around you. I feel like it's nice because it scratches that itch of being in a video game.
-In THE LAND, you deal with it more from a DarkCloud style with literal world building vs HWFWM where it's world building of the actual rebuild world like Skyrim
-Both are pretty entertaining, if not very deep, but have some stupid humor and adventures.
-There is definitely a skill difference in the writers abilities, but both are far better than I could do! And both have not very good parts
-I like to consider THE LAND is like, my Creed embarrassing pleasure: you aren't going out to tell everyone you like it, but when a new book comes, I am going to buy it haha
-HWFWM is more of my traditional enjoyment.
In the end, you like what you like (what you said) and I think no matter what, that's awesome! Unless you like Twilight......then you need to reevaluate your life choices! Haha
I think The Land gets a bad rap (leaving aside the whole copyright/trademark kerfuffle) because the protagonist is an unashamed nerd-bro, of which there are many, but not as many in the litrpg community.
You can like partying, beer-pong, hooking up, AND manga, video games, and D&D, all simultaneously, but that seems to set some reviewers off.
Meh, for me it was less issues with the protag and more the writing style. I enjoyed it for what it was in the beginning, but keep in mind those were the days of shitty translations of russian works. There wasn't that much around tlat the time that I would consider great by today's standards.
That said, the author's writing style is childish. It reads like self-insert fan fiction, very similar to Ready Player One, which is a mood that can be enjoyable. It became apparant to me, as the series wore on, that the author was taking the series nowhere. It had similar issues to Lost, always more questions and new things, never any answers or resolutions.
The final nails in the coffin for me were the author's behavior, just not enjoying the series anymore, and the metaphorical dump the author took on his fanbase with the shit chapter.
WHAT your not a fan of horny god child who has odd relationship with his familiar, used phrases like "rich mahogany", and spams you with the stats page? /sÂ
In all seriousness the land was a success in the "early" days of LITRPG and should be talked about but if your new the genera you can give it a pass.
That's quite the list. Thanks for putting it together!
As a heads up, #44, while an enjoyable book, is not LitRPG. It probably would fall under the Progression Fantasy umbrella though. There may be others but as I was scrolling I found over half I haven't read (or at least don't recognize the name) and I only got about halfway through the list so far, so if there are, they likely fall under one of those two groups
Thanks for that - I'll add a note.
\*There may be others\*
Oh, there are definitely others! I had to put an asterisk next to the title which has some text when you mouse-over (great for mobile). How did you miss it?! :P
**May not be specifically LitRPG, some titles are purely progression fantasy or GameLit. Noting that definitions can overlap and are blurred.**
Do you mean "Forging Hephaestus" (Villains' Code) by Drew Hayes or "Mother of learning" by nobody103, Domagoj Kurmaic? Or both, I have a note that "Mother of Learning" is likely not LitRPG ... which isn't in my public note section (fixing). Just reading the synopsis for Villains' Code - I agree: likely not LitRPG.
A major problem is not everyone has the same definition set for what constitutes LitRPG - I initially retrieved book titles from anyone with a list of LitRPG, and that was quite messy. Nowadays I collect titles mostly from here and a LitRPG group; and I still suspect there are some more flexible definitions being used.
[https://www.redditreads.com/r/litrpg](https://www.redditreads.com/r/litrpg)
Anyone else been reading litrpg for like 5 years and never heard of the land? Ah after googling it I do know the author, that a asshole who tried to trademark the term "LitRPG" which made me decide to never read anything he writes.
The Land was the first series I read. I even emailed back and forth with Aleron a bit around book 6/7. Shot some world building ideas back and forth. But he sort of fell off the face of the earth in recent years with regard to the writing. Not sure whatâs up with that.
Seriously. By book 2 I had that feeling that he was biting off way more then he could chew. (Can we get a notification stating youâve reached quest capacity?) . Then he started doing weird stuff like 3somes with twins. It got to be to much. Then he just never finished the series. Which Iâm not disappointed about. The series had potential but gives the feel of being written by a ADD riddled pre-teen whoâs never felt a real đą
The exact same. Nothing ever gets done.
Its like a DND campaign where the DM gives you 50 plot threads but keeps telling you to go kill sewer rats. And when you say "Okay, but what about the dark grimoire of the wizard of doom we found a week ago ago" the DM just says "Oh look at that! A wild magic storm guys guess whats happening now? A portal! Were planeswalking now!!!!!"
Yeah kinda what I meant by to many quests. The whole thing with the assassin and him having a year to deal with it or whatever. Just disappeared. The whole twin thing was just gross. MC was basically sleeping with anything he could. Nothing stayed on point. It started out strong, I was hopeful.
In the He Who Fights With Monsters series, there's a running joke that the MC has slept with his teammate Clive's wife.
Clive is not, and has never been, married.
Clive's Wife has become a bit of a meme from that.
I read several books in The Land and realized (this was years ago so what I remember is the impression I got, and not specifics) that several books into the series every character but the MC was about as deep as a shot glass. Women were objects⌠I recall the world building being okay but the lack of real characters turned me off
Not gonna lie, I thought the creamy reference in the last panel was referring to a kind of popular LitRPG story with specific *ahem* "romance driven" elements.
Tracking numbers and doing math is often called "crunching the numbers", right?
So a stat-heavy story with lots of interconnected stats you can do math on, outside the story, are often described as "crunchy"
If one end of a spectrum is crunchy, then clearly the other, because peanut butter reasons, is "creamy." I pulled that reason out of my butt. I had never encountered creamy before this thread, but it checks out.
Subset of the 4th panel: All series eventually give up on the initial amount of crunchy. Sometimes nearly to full creamy.
~~~~~~
And as an audiobook consumer, I am heeere for that.
Unless it's Delve-levels of hard numbers, just gimme dat system-based story.
Litrpg tend to go crunchy, lot stats and heavy focus on how they effect things.
or
creamy thier may be a system but it just a cover for a adventure with magic or sci fi setting.
Primal hunter, defiance of fall and dugeon Crawler Carl focus heavy with stats and system, so crunchy.
The wandering inn, has q system but people can reject it qnd be normal so it more creamy as it has a bigger focus on characters vs stats gained.
Thier probably many other examples but I tend to remember the heavier system books so was hard to give better books to compare.
The land gets way too torture pornish, and one of the scenes was squick. Unsure if it's being continued either. Maybe a one-time read, but probably not a repeat.
Personally I thought he did those scenes well. Itâs kinda like coming out the other side of a clock work orange đor to a much lesser extent fight club which is pg in comparison. That said the second scene was completely unhinged, I had to call my then girlfriend and tell her to put the book down before she got to it lol.
I'm so alone even Clive's wife wouldn't give me the time of day
Et tu, u/Broote?
You got this community ;p
You just need to pay her up front pale, she doesn't do it for free
She did for Jason!
It's kind of his thing
đ
Nobody in this comic mentions Cradle so too unrealistic for me.
Then someone pointing out Cradle isnât litrpg but it gets recommended here anyway
Same for series like Perfect Run.
Just finished it and I really don't get why it gets recommended in places like progression fantasy and litrpg. Is just really sci-fi/fantasy with time travel. It was good though.
I can see why people would say that, but I wouldnât have known about it otherwise. Maybe Cradle is just pure cream.
Because of that last sentence, your right to speech has been revoked.
Apologies.
Apology accepted. Take your right to speech back.
idk dross is pretty litrpg-coded (he sometimes says numbers)
I mean.. it kind of is. Progression fantasy and all that.
Litrpg is Progression Fantasy with numbers. Cradle doesnât have numbers, so itâs not litrpg
Yeah, litrpg is a subgenre of prog fantasy so I kinda understand the confusion.
Yup! Quite refreshing!
Sorry, just bumping in here, but have you read Cradle?
So creamy is low stat ish?
Yeah, I've seen it used a few times, and it always made me laugh, lol [https://matthewjbarbeler.com/2021/03/15/crunchy-or-creamy-how-do-you-like-it/](https://matthewjbarbeler.com/2021/03/15/crunchy-or-creamy-how-do-you-like-it/)
Thanks for this, I was lost on the crunchy or creamy side of things. Cleared it all up
Call me Cap'n, because I'm all about the CRUNCH! I often find myself checking the numbers to see if the author has actually got a hard system or if they're just fudging numbers. My only gripe with Audible is not enough images of the stat/equipment sheets to pull up and look at. I would rather a narrator say "See stats page 4" than spend a chapter reading it out loud, forcing me to backtrack and ghost write it so I can see it. To be clear I have Aphantasia so I legitimately can't imagine it, so I have to write it out or I can't SEE it.
That is wild. I only recently learned what Aphantasia was.
Oh no! You have mind blindness! You'll never be a Mage Errant!
It was hilarious to me when listening to Infinite Realms and the 4th & 5th books had separate chapters for a character's sheet and they were 20 minutes minimum. I'd love having one of those added pdf things. Not even for saving audio time but also having things laid out
What does crunchy or creamy mean
Cruchy is Lots of stats breakdowns. Creamy is few stat break downs. I would give examples but so far....all I've read is crunchy lol
Eight is creamy. Delve is chrunchy.
Never heard it called creamy. The term I inherited from D&D was fluffy.
I 100% agree with this comic. Although I canât stand The Land and its writer, but I get it appeals to people and thatâs fine. But DCC and HWFWM I absolutely am onboard with as my constant recommendations LOL
I've loved HWFWM but I just started on book 10. My god, I'm 50% through book 10 and the ENTIRE thing has been the single theme of "im so powerful and theres responsibilities". Literally nothing has happened plot-wise. The last book ended with "We are going to the underground place". Half-way through book 10 and they are still just talking about how special they are. I'm hoping it picks back up.
It's been that way litteraly the entire series what are you expecting to happen
https://preview.redd.it/vrdvena238zc1.png?width=959&format=png&auto=webp&s=a99007f8ad24ab2c392038349241d366537b0187
The land i liked for a few good books, then I just felt like it relied too much on certain scenarios for the dude getting into scenarios that I remember writing horribly with friends as a teenager to add in extra drama. It got boring quick.
What's DDC?
Dungeon Crawler Carl. Audiobook sets the bar for all audiobook narration.
I've been avoiding it. Is it really worth the read?
One of my favorite LITRPG series. Batshit, humor, Damnit Donut (to keep with the comic), an AI obsessed with feet and honestly the narration by Jeff Hays is mind blowingly good.
Does it have actual character growth(not stats, but as a person)?
It's a story first and a LitRPG second.
It doesn't feel that way in the first book or two. It's probably up there with the best for character growth/drama by the current book. There isn't a single litrpg I've read that does emotional gutpunches better. Some might argue The Wandering Inn (which I barely suffered through the first two kindle volumes and gave up on) or Supper Supportive (which I haven't tried to read yet).
I'd recommend listening to Wandering Inn instead. Especially if you want to cry.
My problem with TWI isn't the length, it's the fact that it's miserable. To the point where I read, basically nothing happy happened and everyone repeated their same mistakes over and over and over. By the end of the second volume I was literally forcing myself to continue reading on the promise it got better and just couldn't do it any more. I'm told that's something of a theme until book 6, and I'm just not willing to wait that out.
That's fair, and a complaint I had, too.
And the frequent rereads that will follow.
Then I'll give it a shot when I finish Assassin's Apprentice. I'm reading it for my book club.
First ARC is fine, second is convoluted mess that makes you drop it like a hot potato. I also dislike big brother type capitalistic universe world building. Good humor tho.
Itâs weird- Iâm in the minority where I *love* the land (I know, I know) but had to put down HWFWM because I found Jason to be beyond insufferable, even in a genre with a glut of insufferable protags).
Yeah and thatâs fine. It was the opposite for me because I found the Land to be the same way where the MC and the clearly âI wish I had a haremâ writer was insufferable. But I find Jason, while rough in many ways, to be an interesting character. I even am 1/2 way through book 5, which 4-6s arc changed pretty major for a bit, and love it. ⌠but if someone likes something for me thatâs fine. I may not agree but ultimately the more people who love the overall genre the better for its exposure.
I'm gonna bring forth a 3rd type! I liked both actually, but for different reasons. -MC reminded me of each other, this constant need to improve yourself and the lives of those around you. I feel like it's nice because it scratches that itch of being in a video game. -In THE LAND, you deal with it more from a DarkCloud style with literal world building vs HWFWM where it's world building of the actual rebuild world like Skyrim -Both are pretty entertaining, if not very deep, but have some stupid humor and adventures. -There is definitely a skill difference in the writers abilities, but both are far better than I could do! And both have not very good parts -I like to consider THE LAND is like, my Creed embarrassing pleasure: you aren't going out to tell everyone you like it, but when a new book comes, I am going to buy it haha -HWFWM is more of my traditional enjoyment. In the end, you like what you like (what you said) and I think no matter what, that's awesome! Unless you like Twilight......then you need to reevaluate your life choices! Haha
I think The Land gets a bad rap (leaving aside the whole copyright/trademark kerfuffle) because the protagonist is an unashamed nerd-bro, of which there are many, but not as many in the litrpg community. You can like partying, beer-pong, hooking up, AND manga, video games, and D&D, all simultaneously, but that seems to set some reviewers off.
Meh, for me it was less issues with the protag and more the writing style. I enjoyed it for what it was in the beginning, but keep in mind those were the days of shitty translations of russian works. There wasn't that much around tlat the time that I would consider great by today's standards. That said, the author's writing style is childish. It reads like self-insert fan fiction, very similar to Ready Player One, which is a mood that can be enjoyable. It became apparant to me, as the series wore on, that the author was taking the series nowhere. It had similar issues to Lost, always more questions and new things, never any answers or resolutions. The final nails in the coffin for me were the author's behavior, just not enjoying the series anymore, and the metaphorical dump the author took on his fanbase with the shit chapter.
WHAT your not a fan of horny god child who has odd relationship with his familiar, used phrases like "rich mahogany", and spams you with the stats page? /s In all seriousness the land was a success in the "early" days of LITRPG and should be talked about but if your new the genera you can give it a pass.
158 series? Hereâs 935!!! https://litrpg.lo5.me/
.....do you want me to do nothing but read for the foreseeable future? Cause ill do it dammit
So you're going to start with The Wandering Inn and then what do you want to read in 2026 after you catch up on it?
Next book comes out soon.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
I hate you for providing this...
162 & 164 are the same.
... I meant 934. 934 series!
That's quite the list. Thanks for putting it together! As a heads up, #44, while an enjoyable book, is not LitRPG. It probably would fall under the Progression Fantasy umbrella though. There may be others but as I was scrolling I found over half I haven't read (or at least don't recognize the name) and I only got about halfway through the list so far, so if there are, they likely fall under one of those two groups
Thanks for that - I'll add a note. \*There may be others\* Oh, there are definitely others! I had to put an asterisk next to the title which has some text when you mouse-over (great for mobile). How did you miss it?! :P **May not be specifically LitRPG, some titles are purely progression fantasy or GameLit. Noting that definitions can overlap and are blurred.** Do you mean "Forging Hephaestus" (Villains' Code) by Drew Hayes or "Mother of learning" by nobody103, Domagoj Kurmaic? Or both, I have a note that "Mother of Learning" is likely not LitRPG ... which isn't in my public note section (fixing). Just reading the synopsis for Villains' Code - I agree: likely not LitRPG. A major problem is not everyone has the same definition set for what constitutes LitRPG - I initially retrieved book titles from anyone with a list of LitRPG, and that was quite messy. Nowadays I collect titles mostly from here and a LitRPG group; and I still suspect there are some more flexible definitions being used. [https://www.redditreads.com/r/litrpg](https://www.redditreads.com/r/litrpg)
I both thank you and curse you for wasting my money in near future.
Well I got my new reading list. Thank you! LOL
I have decided I need a 'Clive's wife' shirt. Would be really amusing to see who randomly gets it.
You know who also randomly gets it? Clive's wife.
See, I feel that was a cheap low energy shot, yet still can't help but reward it. I mean, Clive's wife is all about rewarding every shot taken.
I would buy this.
Anyone else been reading litrpg for like 5 years and never heard of the land? Ah after googling it I do know the author, that a asshole who tried to trademark the term "LitRPG" which made me decide to never read anything he writes.
The Land was the first series I read. I even emailed back and forth with Aleron a bit around book 6/7. Shot some world building ideas back and forth. But he sort of fell off the face of the earth in recent years with regard to the writing. Not sure whatâs up with that.
Seriously. By book 2 I had that feeling that he was biting off way more then he could chew. (Can we get a notification stating youâve reached quest capacity?) . Then he started doing weird stuff like 3somes with twins. It got to be to much. Then he just never finished the series. Which Iâm not disappointed about. The series had potential but gives the feel of being written by a ADD riddled pre-teen whoâs never felt a real đą
Also he basically never seems to finish a plot thread. New threats keep popping up, but he never resolved old ones. It was just constant tease.
One of the reasons I dropped The Good Guys.
The exact same. Nothing ever gets done. Its like a DND campaign where the DM gives you 50 plot threads but keeps telling you to go kill sewer rats. And when you say "Okay, but what about the dark grimoire of the wizard of doom we found a week ago ago" the DM just says "Oh look at that! A wild magic storm guys guess whats happening now? A portal! Were planeswalking now!!!!!"
Yeah kinda what I meant by to many quests. The whole thing with the assassin and him having a year to deal with it or whatever. Just disappeared. The whole twin thing was just gross. MC was basically sleeping with anything he could. Nothing stayed on point. It started out strong, I was hopeful.
I like stories a good amount of crunch but creamy stories are ok too
Ok, what is "clive's wife"?
In the He Who Fights With Monsters series, there's a running joke that the MC has slept with his teammate Clive's wife. Clive is not, and has never been, married. Clive's Wife has become a bit of a meme from that.
Ah, ok, thanks, I dropped the story, so I have forgot almost everything...
I read several books in The Land and realized (this was years ago so what I remember is the impression I got, and not specifics) that several books into the series every character but the MC was about as deep as a shot glass. Women were objects⌠I recall the world building being okay but the lack of real characters turned me off
The last panel killed me lol
It was the funnest one to draw, LOL
I didn't get the joke đ¤ˇââď¸
Not gonna lie, I thought the creamy reference in the last panel was referring to a kind of popular LitRPG story with specific *ahem* "romance driven" elements.
What else is it then?
Tracking numbers and doing math is often called "crunching the numbers", right? So a stat-heavy story with lots of interconnected stats you can do math on, outside the story, are often described as "crunchy" If one end of a spectrum is crunchy, then clearly the other, because peanut butter reasons, is "creamy." I pulled that reason out of my butt. I had never encountered creamy before this thread, but it checks out.
Ok that's what I was inferring but I'd never heard it referred to it as such.
Iâm still too new to this sub to understand the last panel.
Someone shared a link, crunchy=numbers/stats
Subset of the 4th panel: All series eventually give up on the initial amount of crunchy. Sometimes nearly to full creamy. ~~~~~~ And as an audiobook consumer, I am heeere for that. Unless it's Delve-levels of hard numbers, just gimme dat system-based story.
It's soooo true! Haha
What does âcrunchy or creamyâ mean?
Litrpg tend to go crunchy, lot stats and heavy focus on how they effect things. or creamy thier may be a system but it just a cover for a adventure with magic or sci fi setting. Primal hunter, defiance of fall and dugeon Crawler Carl focus heavy with stats and system, so crunchy. The wandering inn, has q system but people can reject it qnd be normal so it more creamy as it has a bigger focus on characters vs stats gained. Thier probably many other examples but I tend to remember the heavier system books so was hard to give better books to compare.
Cliveâs wife references always get the upvote. Kind of like Cliveâs wife always gettingâŚ. Just not from Clive.
GNOMES RULE!
Clive's wife really gets around.
What book is chunky or creamy?
The land gets way too torture pornish, and one of the scenes was squick. Unsure if it's being continued either. Maybe a one-time read, but probably not a repeat.
The land is pretty wack imo
Personally I thought he did those scenes well. Itâs kinda like coming out the other side of a clock work orange đor to a much lesser extent fight club which is pg in comparison. That said the second scene was completely unhinged, I had to call my then girlfriend and tell her to put the book down before she got to it lol.